Eddie Tabash: Speech and Q&A at AAI 07

[twooffour]

Are atheists "really" that despised in America (I'm not talking about the deepest south here, btw), especially more than homosexuals or whoever else, or is it just persecution complex / exaggeration?

I mean, I know about the political elections and stuff, but in everyday life? In business? In pop culture (how many movies, shows and internet satires make fun of religion??)?

Somehow wouldn't think so...

[waretron]

"If one is a true conservative....one should oppose the religious right because if you are a true conservative you believe in limited government, and the religious right are state totalitarians"

I couldn't agree more. As a fiscal conservative it is very distressing to see the Republican party becoming so intertwined with the religious right.

[dlc208]

I think these people are going a little overboard. The founders were not against religion they were against a state-sponsored church. In fact, if you read the federalist papers John Jay refers to the US as a nation of people being of the same religion - I'm pretty sure he meant Christianity. Was abortion legal in the time of the founders? I think not. So I think the truth is that America was supposed to be a Christian nation, but without a state church.

[hazydavey]

@dlc208

When it comes to attitudes about religion, John Jay was clearly in the minority among the Founders. That's a very good thing. Jay believed that Catholics should be denied the right to vote and right to own property - a view clearly at odds with our First Amendment and secular Constitution. So yes, we are and were a nation with a Christian majority, but not "Christian" in any legal our foundational sense.

Incidentally, abortion wasn't prohibitted in the U.S. until the late 1800s.

[keithlogan365]

I'm an atheist, but I find alot of his comments off the mark. Simply because some religious conservatives desire some policy is no guarantee that they could get a majority and get the policy through the legislature - birth control, for instance, is probably far too popular to ever be outlawed again in any state. Likewise, many of the more extreme religious positions would find little popular support and have no chance of being put into law.

[1CountryIndivisible]

Have you been out of the country for the past eight years? You do not appear well informed about the conservative christian political agenda. Your lack of concern is not a good sign for the future health of our county.

You are taking for granted the strength of our democracy. It's foundation and the protection of the individual has truly been under threat since the religious have pushed their agenda.

[opinionhead444]

Weirdly, why aren't more religionists pushing for Tabash's agenda? Logically speaking, the death toll for dissenting against theocracy would be higher for the believers that disagree since they outnumber all the freethinkers in the country.

[scottious]

Chilling. He's a little dry, but spot on.

[falconiqx]

Okay... so it wasn't a bad speech... but dear god was it dry... I mean drink some water and loosen up a little. maybe have some tequila instead of water.

Yeah it was serious and I agreed with 97% of it, but a smile now an then wouldn't hurt.

[johnclavis]

I'm afraid that Mr. Tabash drops the ball at 30:00 or so, with talk of "Rabbi Lieberman"... his 100% NARAL rating is worthless. Joe was part of the Gang of 14 who prevented any filibuster of Alito in the name of bipartisanship; then voted against holding up the nomination; *then*, technically, voted not to confirm him, after it was clear his vote wouldn't count.

Joe's legislative activity allowed these anti-abortion judges onto the Supreme Court. He's a fink.

[johnclavis]

I was dubious at first -- the guy doesn't have a lot of charisma -- but by the end, I thought it was a stirring speech. Bravo! Thanks for posting this!

The picture he paints truly is scary. The top 1% have brainwashed the masses into thinking that "college=liberal indoctrination" and "education-prayer=evil" and "you only need to read one book", so now the voters are too ignorant to see through charlatans like Romney and Rudy and Huck.

[tothboy01]

Interesting video. Thanks for posting!

[GBanville]

I love that he mentions Goldwater.

Shocking point at just past 7 minutes.

Note: The doctrines of the justices he's talking about at 20 mins aren't just religios, they are specifically controlling, tribalistic, nationalistic. In other words, they bear the distinct tang of neoconservatism.

24:21 No. If he wants to hew strictly to the constitution then charity is not a legitimate function of govt.

36:22 Voting for hypocrites is a necessity.

And overall impression: He's a bit of a fear-monger, no?

[capitalist88]

Excellent point on 24:21 GBanville. I grimaced at that point too.

[freedom2think]

I am from the Midwestern city of Chicago Illinois.  I don't believe any God conceived by mankind. I deny Christ, Allah, and the Secret. I hereby devote my whole existence to honestly refuting nonsense while trying to understand the universe I reside in. I do not call myself Atheist only because I don't know what forces may be at work although I'm convinced that Judeo-Christo-Islamic beliefs are bullshit.

[skutre]

I blame the Romans for the pestilence of Judeo-Christianity.

They were Liberals, and left too many unfed to lions.

The Romans are to blame.

If you have a job to do, do it right.

Sew the Earth with salt, and wipe out the3 entire population.

That would have wiped out the Christian vermin.

-s

[BigFatTonyCal]

War,Starvation,poverty,greed, Where is your God now.

[BigFatTonyCal]

If one person is called crazy because they think different. What do they call 1000 people that think the same thing. Religion.

[Mattnesss]

a very informative speech, thanks for posting this!

[MattressGallery]

I find it a little bit strange that the majority of people posting here are from the U.K., especially since this event was hosted in America and over half of the speakers were American.

Amazing stuff, indeed. Now if only the sensible people in the American midwest would come out of the closet and put an immediate end to these religious charades.

[jungfookid]

is this guy a robot?

[Thornfox]

You'd think so, he's a little too good at public speaking.

[sylvan2]

Yes. It's called "lawyer".

[AttemptingReason]

Very nice, this is the first time I've heard the position of church-state separation argued so emphatically and well. He convinced me to give the issue a lot more weight.

[Stew282]

As a European, I do find it rather scary that the most economically and militarily powerful nation on earth - and one of the most scientifically advanced, is so heavily subject to the influence of bronze-age mythology.

[Splatador]

As an American, I find it VERY scary.

[RRSAlabama]

This is one of my favorite speeches because it is one of the most important. I've got it burned in audio format to listen to in the car.

[Christoffeltje]

Jezus was Gay!!! ..by the way there is NO god..haha

[Domzdream]

There is no god, but there are gods, like toutatis, odin, my coffee god (yeah!), god of the great booby (she's hot), etc. Oh and the tooth fairy. But you're right, there is no god.

[Domzdream]

Great speach. Listened to it again today. This guy should represent the atheist movement.

[Domzdream]

I hope Americans sort this problem out because other wise you guys are fucked! I really hope this doesn't happen. On the weekend I saw that Jesus camp. Scary stuff. Going in the same direction as the muslims are. Good luck guys! Honestly.

[MattressGallery]

Everything in America pretty much went to hell when the Republican party allied itself with fundamentalist Christian fascists. It'll take more than a few decades before we can undo all of the havoc they have wrought since the seventies.

[kwalpole]

Atheism is a religion. These people are hypocrites. They say they want seperation of church and state but their agenda is to convert everyone on earth from whatever faith to no faith. These people must be ignored. Please turn away from these horrible people and never pay any attention to anything they say.

[DrRandale]

ha ha ha ha ha ha...

Dan Dennett wrote about this!

This is a typical defense of someone that has got a special kind of the "faith meme":

"Don't listen to arguments!"

"If someone wants to argue don't listen it's just the Devil talking!"

[riversonthemoon]

kwalpole, sounds to me like you're afraid of challenging the beliefs that you hold to be true. Atheist's arguments too convincing? Actually, most atheists don't give a shit what you believe. Just don't try to legislate taste, and don't point to your holy book for justification.

[kwalpole]

You may feel all powerful casting your judgment against me for believing in God but you have a really strong chance of never knowing God. I'll pray for you. I'm sure you have something bad to say but that just proves what sort of soul less people you athiests are. Burn baby burn...

[riversonthemoon]

How can you be SUCH a hypocrite? Saying that if I say something bad to you then I'm a soulless person and in the same breath tell me to burn. Doesn't that make you the soulless one?

[kwalpole]

I remember my ex girlfriend was once confronted by a lady pressing her christian beliefs on her and she got fed up. She asked the lady, "are you going to heaven?" The lady replied, "yes". My ex then replied, "if you are going to be in heaven, I don't want to go". The woman was struck speechless. Maybe you guys could use that when you are expressing your hate for silly believers.

[SKOM85]

"Burn baby burn..." - There's that famous Christian love again.

[eviltwit73]

praying for us? - are you going to sacrifice a goat as well? - because the result will be the same...

[garouHH]

Looks like I'll get the flame for saying so, but then so be it:

Science does not comment on the supernatural, neither in positives or negatives. It does not proof or disproof or even try to proof or disproof the existance of gods, wether monotheistic or polytheistic, or any supernatural phenomena. It only refines the known model of the known natural world.

Atheism is a belief, no matter how probable. If you can't deal with it... so be it.

[kwalpole]

Think about this. If there is no God and I am wrong, I will die and that will be the end but if there is a God and you have denied him, you have a very high price to pay. I am not trying to force you to believe in God and I don't appreciate you trying to force the world to believe your religion. If we were in Iraq under muslim law, which is exactly what we will soon be thanks to George W. Bush you would have been executed.

[ClockLock]

Pascal's Wager is a refuted argument: Muslims can use the same argument, Jews can use the same argument, Hindus can use the same argument, it's nothing special to Christianity, therefore it gives no backing in favor of your religion. Atheists and agnostics are not scared of Pascal's Wager, so you'll have to invent some other argument.

[riversonthemoon]

kwalpole,

To make Pascal's wager really appealing to atheists, you would have to show the likelihood of there actually being a God and a hell, and show that you are highly certain about God's demands, specifically, that he abhors doubt.

Btw, the fact that Muslim crazies would murder heretics given the chance is all the more motivation for atheists to try to talk them out of their delusions, and hopefully a few generations from now, see them fulfilled rational beings.

[riversonthemoon]

garouHH,

I agree. It is a belief, but it isn't equatable with religious belief. Even in science we still have to believe in our philosophical assumptions - that the universal laws are uniform through space and time, that the universe can be understood through rational inquiry - The success of science does make it highly probable that these assumptions are true, and atheism is a belief similar to those beliefs, not religious faith.

[garouHH]

Interesting point, riversonthemoon, but... What testable predictions does atheism present, then?

[riversonthemoon]

None. I agreed with you that it's not a scientific theory. Just a highly probable assumption, similar to those that underly science. So while it could be argued that this kind of assumption is a 'matter of faith', it is one that doesn't require you to 'leap'.

[schmiggen]

riversonthemoon: In studying science and acting with scientifically-acquired knowledge, I don't have to assume that any laws are universal. It is enough that every experiment and experience supports that the laws work as if they are universal that we may proceed as if they were; this is not the same as having faith that they are universal.

[schmiggen]

You might say that one must at least have faith in one's senses or however else incoming information is perceived, but obviously what you would be describing is unavoidable, and it isn't faith by definition, because the consistency of incoming information itself is a basis for the belief that the senses should be trusted.

[riversonthemoon]

Well said. I agree. It is usually only argued by the theist that this kind of necessary pragmatism is a matter of faith, simply to try to lend credence to their own position.

[PsychologistPaula]

Thanks to Rational Response for posting these sessions. Took the week off to watch everything from AA1 on youtube. I was unable to attend, unfortunately, but the information is crucial as a current overview. Thanks!!!! I intend to purchase the DVD when it is available. Youtube, if anything, will encourage people to buy the dvd. Paula the Psychologist

[QuasarX]

I'm confused... Ron Paul is a Republican presidential candidate, and a pro-life Christian, but his candidacy is also endorsed by Barry Goldwater, right? (video tPoFXl97wv4)

[smoothmedia]

Ron Paul would uphold the constitution. He is one of the very few Republicans who would do good for atheist rights.

[Bueller007]

Ron Paul. Quote:

"The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders' political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs... The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance."

[SKOM85]

I'm not American and even I know that's B.S. To quote Thomas Jefferson: "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."

[Bueller007]

Nor am I American and I feel exactly the same way.

Ron Paul is a Christian crackpot who only "cares about the constitution" if interpreted through historical revisionism.

[SKOM85]

He also only seems to care about personal liberty so long as it doesn't pertain to a woman's right to choose to have an abortion. Astounding ignorance from an obstetrician who should realise that legal or not women will still have abortions, there will just be more dead women if it is made illegal.

[kwalpole]

Americans are better people than any others. Especially Christian Americans. Athiests are horrible ugly people. I mean look at this clown Eddie Tabash. He's nothing but a boring big fat loser.

[TheAnathemas]

What a vile, hateful, chauvinistic little cretin you are.

[Ashetheraven]

I'm going into the study of Constition history and law. I'd like to understand it intimately so I can better use it for the betterment of what will eventually be my "fellow Americans"

[gobblegobblechew]

Im going to be childish for a second.....

Does anyone else think this guy's voice sounds like Stephen Hawkings voice modulator?