Re: Merleau-Ponty and Theory of Mind - a follow up to my first video, general discussion.

[Shadapaga]

do you study philosophy at UCF?

[miguelbinha]

Man, you are so eloquent! Isn't this amazing? To question and not be afraid to be vulnerable. To be open and authentic. Man, you are my reconnection to what is essential whenever the caves' shackles tighten up! I come to Youtube and hear you and remember who I really am.

[2levina]

What is it that is meant by 'The Look' in phenomenology (in the sense of, 'who is it that is before me, who is this other?'

[egoistorms]

thank you for the content

[Aspie37]

Do you know about Asperger Syndrome?

[atolborg]

How amusing. I just "criticized" your video reply on God for being too artistic. Now I watch this video where your style is different :)

Do you relate to "emergence of multiple selves" given multiple situations? Do you relate to the idea of us suffering from change blindness in relation to the emergence of our self. That in some way it is misjudging to speak of "a particular self"? And that it is more suitable to say that we bring forth suited selves to deal with (the breakdowns of) the world?

[whitejadesamadhi]

did you use the term "grok"? heinlein, no?

[peace97914101]

I do find it quite funny that people base their existance off a machine. A computer.  A robot. Not a smart idea I would say.

[peace97914101]

Man the phone is not to good for these replies.

[CPLains]

I read that book now! Embodied mind.. Good one!

:)=

that's a proud smily! ^^

keep it up,

[Torcika]

despite the fact that the English language has the largest number of words in comparison to any other language,it is still incapable of describing basic human feelings,emotions,"felt things",without using composed words.

That makes it hard o understand such subjects as the one debated here

[thesmokingfrog]

Consciousness is like a burning flame amid the embracing darkness of a uterus

[SteilLaw]

Fun finish.

You seem like a philosopher.

[peace97914101]

You know that I never read the bible, or the play of Faust. Never was to religious in my childhood as well. Interesting how things fall into ones hands. So when people dream, is it all about the superficial stuff or are they dreams about people they are close to and interact with? And if that is the case why did I have dreams about people here, before all of this began in my early childhood?

[peace97914101]

I have been given the blessing and the curse. Should we let it run it's course?

[emblemOFbeing]

Yep thats me. Gallagher just returned from France where he was writing a book for three months, on Action & Interaction. I should be seeing him soon, so will do. I like Thompson's Mind & Life - we'e just now seeing reviews come out for it, so I'm hoping it will have a more significant impact on cognitive/mind sciences in the coming years. We need a new word, other than 'cognitive'. Mind has its own baggage. Anyway thanks for the reply Matt.

[ClearMindMeditation]

I think your videos are great. As you describe all of these complex topics, I simplify them in my head as I go. I couldn't help but laugh, as I think the last thing you did summarizes well how we complicate philosophy and beingness. Watch, I'm going to do a yoga move called the crow. Proceeds to do a handstand...HA. Good one, but it proves something. We all innately understand our connection to nature. As you said though, we learn to separate ourselves through language as we act in society.

[SpiritualAtheist]

I'm never quite sure what exactly you mean when you use the word "world". In one sense it sounds like a projection of one's experience. Are there then just a bunch of experiences out which a single world emerges and we somehow all participate in? It sounds like a kind of group solipsism, which strikes me as incoherent. But then I probably just don't understand the idea you're trying to convey. Thanks.

[0ThouArtThat0]

A world is what is brought forth when organisms co-produce domains of relevant meaning. In the Cartesian tradition, "world" tends to mean something the subject is parachuted into as if from outside and comes to know via accurate internal representation. "World" in the sense I used it is not a subjective projection, but an achievement of communities of beings with similar interests. There are many worlds, not just one. But it is not solipsistic, b/c other worlds are always interrupting ours...

[0ThouArtThat0]

Human cultures, for instance, know themselves only because they've confronted and been forced to structurally couple with other cultures (and their worlds). It is the interpenetration of worlds that makes life so interesting, as you're never quite sure where you'll find yourself next.

[peace97914101]

For every mind, there is a star. Each individual in behavior but the same in likeness. I believe the stars create the worlds.

But where does that leave me Matt? I feel like I am always traveling trying to find my own world. Or maybe this is just what I am ment to do in the universe. Always searching for home.

[MaBu888]

You simply exercise the already available freedom to define yourself to be a searcher for home. You can do it differently. This not even being a suggestion.

[peace97914101]

@MaBu888 Kiddo, I already know where home is, and if any of you were paying attention you would know this.

Still to busy trying to tell me what I should know it seems to me.

[peace97914101]

That is not being a suggestion.

[peace97914101]

@MaBu888 Amazing all these people on a website, who claim to have a brain and so intellectual cant follow one simple direction. But hey keep on yapping your mouth kiddo.

Keep on yapping

[MaBu888]

You too. I know you know. I'm saying that you are capable of thinking that you are always on your way to home, and that you know what is.

[MaBu888]

Fuck the negative emotions you transmit. :) Good bye.

[peace97914101]

@MaBu888 Wow, I just woke up and I dont use the language you have just used. Maybe a bit more of meditation for you is needed.

I am not upset, I am getting ready for work.

[peace97914101]

@MaBu888 What having a hard time understanding, what you say, and what you believe is not what I say and believe.

You are now free kiddo, stop trying to speak for me, and what I feel, and what I know.

[MaBu888]

I merely responded to your expressions. I didn't even try to assume what you feel or know, just how you said it.

[peace97914101]

@MaBu888 No Ring Ring, on the telephone means, I dont trust a single thing you say, nor believe any of it. Your comment, means to me about as much as a pile of garbage right now, since you do not know me, my expressions, or my emotional state kiddo.

[peace97914101]

@MaBu888 So if I do not know you, or trust you your responds is irrelevant.

[peace97914101]

@MaBu888 You kids will learn how to follow directions, and if you cant welp then, Have fun searching and doing whatever it is you think your doing out here.

[peace97914101]

/watch?v=Pl2ff0yEqcE#

let me tell you something kid, do you just like I remember what you have just said today, or what you have soon and proved in the past. MaBu888 the person who has some major issues is you kiddo. And your langange proved it today alone. So you go and take what you said to sonsei SMS show him what you wrote before talking about someones attiutude or mental state kiddo.

[MaBu888]

You yourself cause negative reactions with your own negative reactions.

[peace97914101]

No if you want to know what I am upset about just ask me foolish. And so I will enlighten or ignorant mind. What I don't like is waking up everyday to the same old BS repitive job or jobs. Putting products into peoples homes, which I know do more harm than good. What I am upset about, is people like your self who claim to be intellectiual and you do not think about the world around you and the people in it which make it function.

[peace97914101]

As I said before kiddo, you can even come close to walking the miles in my shoes. You have no idea what I have seen and gone through over this. And when it is told to you, you sit there making even more non sense believing that you have some idea or answer to this, or what I should do. Guess what I am doing what I was taught and told kiddo. Deal with it.

[peace97914101]

Shall I post flowers and kittens for you so you feel more safe? Is that real, or just another lie to make you feel better about your self MaBu888.

[peace97914101]

If you want me to like you MaBu888 you will learn how to keep that trap of yours closed.

[peace97914101]

So let me ask you something else son. So when my friends get on here and start using this site., and they do not act or speak the way you dictate as they should are you going to say the same things. Are you going to assume as to people and there mental state or expression? Hmmmm? Seems to me that you will.

[peace97914101]

@MaBu888 So as you blast all those negitave words on this site, how does that make you feel? Did you learn that in your martial arts class, maybe you should speak that way to your sinsei.

[MaBu888]

Same back at you, peace97914101.

I speak what I see.

[peace97914101]

@MaBu888 And here is what I see. The internet. Has not changed since Sep 11, 2001. Has not changed since the creation of this site 2005, and has not changed to much in 2009. People running around doing the same thing day in and day out. You cant follow a simple direction, then you want meaning to be brought to what you say out here, when I clearly define why, what most of you say or put up on this site means about squat to me. See I empower the words of those I choose, not you Kiddo.

[peace97914101]

@MaBu888 Now see, we adults do this thing called going to work. I have to get ready, you sit back at thing about what I said today son.

[Professoranton]

It is so delightful to hear someone speak so clearly and use terms so tightly and attuned their meaning within intellectual and historical traditions. It is a spiritual achievement to struggle to learn the meaning of words as others use them.

Thanks so much for this. A real gem!

[0ThouArtThat0]

Thanks Corey! I've been so wrapped up in writing lately... Holons will be up and rolling again as soon as the semester is over. Hope we can have you on again for a discussion.

[conferencereport]

The reference you make to 'structural coupling' between embodied human cognitive processes as key to 'mind' seems particularly signiticant to me. The implication seems to be that different couplings would suggest different 'mindings'. Are you familiar with the 'In My Language' video /watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc

? I may be over-interpreting but it seems to me to be pointing toward a very different (autistic) coupling which is not limited to and constructed by the intersubjective.

[0ThouArtThat0]

Different couplings suggest different "mindings" and different shared worlds of meaning (the "material," we could say, stays the same, but the semiotics can be so transformed that we may as well refer to different worlds).

I'm not familiar with that video, but I'll give it a look.

[o0JustNobody0o]

You use a lot of coded language that you've acquired from the books you read. It makes it difficult to understand what you are talking about. Science doesn't exactly have everything figured out. The unified field theory is still like the holy grail of physics. The observed behavior of living organisms cannot fully be explained by physics, even with the help of chemistry and biology.

[0ThouArtThat0]

It's not coded, or perhaps its one of those "open secrets" that just takes a little bit of research to figure out. I agree that any physical "theory of everything" that unifies relativity and quantum mechanics will tell us little to nothing about life or mind (unless no ToE is possible until these other, equally real, components of reality are considered by physicists--I'm doubtful, though, because math doesn't seem up to the task--life is qualitative, not quantitative).

[o0JustNobody0o]

Any secret is open if you know where to look. You just use word phrases or word combinations that just aren't used in common language like "fallacy of misplaced concreteness". Life is both qualitative and quantitative. Your subjective reality can be described. Anything that can be described, mathematics can be applied to in some degree. If a rock falls to the ground in your imaginary world, then gravity can be said to exist within that world, and thus some form of mathematics as well.

[Cashify]

Great points. That which has a figure or form can be figured and formulated. But that which is limitless (which would not therefore be a dynamic relative object, and which itself is formed via an abstract human construction) cannot be encapsulated in any membrane, and so using remembrance, or the epistemology of memory to try to grasp the formless is like trying to use a shovel to dig deeper into the significance of Merleau-Ponty's philosophies. Ponty seems to have overlooked this himself.

[Cashify]

Merleau-Ponty was a brilliant thinker, and there is no way that merely by thinking about it he could have become aware that YES...the INDIVIDUATED relative and imaginary ego sense rises and vanishes with its objects, inextricably linked...BUT there ARE NO OBJECTS in reality. To deny this is like a kid playing nintendo in his home talking about how the very real limitations the game puts on his "guy" keep him from reaching "home." But he was just misidentified, a very common error in thinkers.

[o0JustNobody0o]

To Cashify. Great Pts Comment.

I have yet to encounter something truly formless. My ideas and thoughts have some form to me. Even supposed abstract things like lies and truth, I can describe and even write algorithms for their operation. I could teach a computer to spot a lie via mathematical algorithms, and therefore not as abstract or formless or limitless as we may think. We just don't understand a lot of things, so we call things formless when many times they are not.

[Cashify]

"something truly formless"

Yes that is the tendency, to attempt to categorize every awareness as a "thing" and of course some THING is not formless. But this I who has yet to find the formless existence, if it looks for and finds an object to equate and categorize as "I" there will still be "I" the subject objectifying a "something" which you say is "you" ...and if there isn't, ask who is noticing that.

[jedimasterbooboo]

Every time I see that guy's name in print, my mind shows me Monty Python first, and then I have to relook, and then I see his name. Neurological reading phenomenon.

[0ThouArtThat0]

or you just really appreciate good comedy.

[jogayot]

and what is left when we remove all the intersubjectivity? an abject animal or genius of moksha?

[0ThouArtThat0]

mmm a fish out of water came to mind. or it'd be like trying to germinate a seed without soil or sunlight.

[jogayot]

ohkeyduhkey, beren frut kayk, then.

[jimbobubbadj]

Matt, what is your I.Q.? You have similar interests that my nephew has who has a high I.Q.

[0ThouArtThat0]

Meh, there are so many types of intelligence (see Howard Gardener's research). I.Q. scores are all but meaningless.

[BombdePlume]

That was so well articulated.

My understanding of motor intentionality is a little fuzzy. Is there an implication there that awareness/will IS noumenal?

[0ThouArtThat0]

Hmm, well I don't have an easy answer for that. I'd say will is noumenal in the sense that you won't find it anywhere in the empirical world of physical objects (though you might find its effects).

[docrufus]

*~*

[UncannyRicardo]

Awesome video

5*