The guy at the paint shop hands me a quart of shellac and a quart of poly to treat my stained t&g. Says "this is what you need". Great. He should know. That's all he does. I get home. Read the labels and it tells me the exact opposite. Chit. I think maybe someone on the youtube tested this out. Sure enough. Many thanks to you woodwisperer.
@TheWoodWhisperer I just thought it was great that someone actually took the time to test it and share the results. A fine job you did of it. But after careful consideration I opted to skip the shellac and just use several coats of poly. I treated the cedar with a pre-stain conditioner before staining so shellac would be overkill. I'm still waiting for the stain to settle so if this is a bad idea I'm all eyes.
Ive used shellac both waxed and dewaxed under both std and water based poly for 35 years. only time i have ever seen adherence issues is when the sealer coat has been applied improperly meaning to thick. it seems that it actually does matter if the material is over sanded as well with the tighter grained woods such as rock maple etc. then after time AND significant indirect sunlight, peeling of the poly occurs.
simply not sanding the sealer coat seems to reduce exposure to peeling too!
@boostz32 Personally I think its probably. But ultimately, its probably not worth the risk. Although I made this video to challenge the assumptions out there, when it comes to finishing my furniture, its not a place where I'm going to take a needless risk. So honestly, I only stock up on dewaxed shellac just to make sure I never have a problem. So unless you have a particular need/reason to use waxy shellad, I'd play it safe and go dewaxed.
Hi Marc. Do you see any issue using shellac under water based poly? I make a bunch of cornhole boards and am thinking that a coat of shellac could save a few coats of poly. As usual thanks for all the videos!
If you still have those samples, then try this: add your tape again, and more drops of epoxy. Then set the samples away for a year or two and try it again.
@LFWOL Its usually because they need the product to stay in a predictable form. As soon as you dilute the material, it becomes difficult for them to guarantee the performance. Which is kind of BS, so they are really just covering their butts. So thin away my friend!
I like the way you covered this, it made sense to me. I too would like to see more on the subject of spraying finishes rather than brushed. You do a great job and its probably only a matter of time before you're picked up by a big network, Norm..., er, uh, Marc. I'll be checking more videos out, I will be making an end grain cutting board soon.
I really appreciate finishing as the topic here, almost can't have enough videos about the subject. I have a great book that really opened my eyes to the possibilities, "Wood Finishing with George Frank" by the late George Frank I would highly reccomend it.
This is nice. But I have an idea. Could you cover up HVLP? Like pros and cons, if shellac / poly can be reduced and sprayed on and if so, if lacquer thinner or mineral spirit should be used to reduce and if it has any effect on the wood etc... I hate brushes and i'm sure there are more people like me out there. Thanks for all the vids, they are great.
One interesting test would be to put the duct tape and the aluminum tape over the damage caused by the epoxy damage. again, it would only show how damage can continue based off an initial damage, but that might be a factor in why people say not to do this. Great video though, Thanks!
You should put them in the sun for about a week and if that doesn't do anything maybe get extreme and take a heat gun to them and see if the waxed one behaves differently.
@ironlionkalo Shellac pretty much binds to everything. That's what makes it such a great sealer. It can seal off impurities and oils in the wood, allowing your other more sensitive finishes to bind.
I appreciated the test. I have never used one finish over another but it is good to know I could. Maybe keep the test pieces and at a later date, show the results?? Good stuff! Keep it up : )
Question now: Does that also apply to a damaged finish? Would the glue maybe go between the layers of poly and shellac?
Well, but i also don't see it if shellac is used as a sealer, i tried a 1 pound cut recently,
it seals the grain a but the poly would definitely still have contact with the wood after a very light sanding of the shellac, and it's not like it got silicon in it or something.
@Xar0mir I wouldn't really count on the glue doing anything productive to a finish. So damaged or not, I wouldn't recommend using epoxy on the surface.
did you try to see how the finishes reacted to impacts? (a few blows with a nylon hammer could do the job without leaving heavy marks like metal ones)
btw imho yours is a good test. I agree that a heavy coat of shellac could cause problems, but your experiment proves that a thin coat is good enough :)
@Shannariano Haven't done any impact testing. But I did do further adhesion testing using a Scotch tape test. I used an x-acto knife to create a grid of cuts and then put the tape over top of that. Neither duct tape or scotch tape could pull up any finish.
The guy at the paint shop hands me a quart of shellac and a quart of poly to treat my stained t&g. Says "this is what you need". Great. He should know. That's all he does. I get home. Read the labels and it tells me the exact opposite. Chit. I think maybe someone on the youtube tested this out. Sure enough. Many thanks to you woodwisperer.
EdgerHumphrey 1 week ago
@EdgerHumphrey Glad to help. But make sure you test first. My little experiment here didn't really prove much. Just raised more questions. :)
TheWoodWhisperer 1 week ago
@TheWoodWhisperer I just thought it was great that someone actually took the time to test it and share the results. A fine job you did of it. But after careful consideration I opted to skip the shellac and just use several coats of poly. I treated the cedar with a pre-stain conditioner before staining so shellac would be overkill. I'm still waiting for the stain to settle so if this is a bad idea I'm all eyes.
EdgerHumphrey 1 week ago
@EdgerHumphrey I think you'll be fine with the poly only. Always simplify the process whenever possible.
TheWoodWhisperer 1 week ago
Ive used shellac both waxed and dewaxed under both std and water based poly for 35 years. only time i have ever seen adherence issues is when the sealer coat has been applied improperly meaning to thick. it seems that it actually does matter if the material is over sanded as well with the tighter grained woods such as rock maple etc. then after time AND significant indirect sunlight, peeling of the poly occurs.
simply not sanding the sealer coat seems to reduce exposure to peeling too!
TheWhitetailrancher 3 weeks ago
Hey Marc, Great video as always but what are your thoughts on using this waxed shellac under Lacquer? Thanks
boostz32 6 months ago
@boostz32 Personally I think its probably. But ultimately, its probably not worth the risk. Although I made this video to challenge the assumptions out there, when it comes to finishing my furniture, its not a place where I'm going to take a needless risk. So honestly, I only stock up on dewaxed shellac just to make sure I never have a problem. So unless you have a particular need/reason to use waxy shellad, I'd play it safe and go dewaxed.
TheWoodWhisperer 6 months ago
I scratch test would be interesting, e.g.: Car keys, rough bottom of a plate
jrovang 7 months ago
Hi Marc. Do you see any issue using shellac under water based poly? I make a bunch of cornhole boards and am thinking that a coat of shellac could save a few coats of poly. As usual thanks for all the videos!
boyzwithboardz 8 months ago
@boyzwithboardz Should be just fine. And it should definitely help your poly build faster.
TheWoodWhisperer 8 months ago
If you still have those samples, then try this: add your tape again, and more drops of epoxy. Then set the samples away for a year or two and try it again.
tabhorian 1 year ago
@LFWOL Its usually because they need the product to stay in a predictable form. As soon as you dilute the material, it becomes difficult for them to guarantee the performance. Which is kind of BS, so they are really just covering their butts. So thin away my friend!
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
@TheWoodWhisperer a question: Will coating a piece of wood all around with epoxy or polyurethane stop its expansion characteristics?
MoltenMozzarella 9 months ago
@MoltenMozzarella It might slow it down, but nothing will really stop it.
TheWoodWhisperer 9 months ago
Fair enough that there are caveats to what you did here, but this approach to what you do is appreciated, and also makes for enjoyable vids. Thanks!
AitchJay 1 year ago
Thank you so much for the REAL WORLD type teaching, I learn so much from your video's.
rickcperry 1 year ago
I like the way you covered this, it made sense to me. I too would like to see more on the subject of spraying finishes rather than brushed. You do a great job and its probably only a matter of time before you're picked up by a big network, Norm..., er, uh, Marc. I'll be checking more videos out, I will be making an end grain cutting board soon.
-Ken
MrKennected 1 year ago
lol...that would be amazing!!! Imagine the money you would save and the extra hours you would be in the shop...or the number of jittery layouts?!
elimelech12 1 year ago
@elimelech12 Its bad enough as it is. Free access to my favorite coffee, plus I get paid to drink it???? Holy crap that would be bad. :)
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
Is Dunkin' Donuts a sponsor now?
elimelech12 1 year ago
@elimelech12 I wish! :)
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
I really appreciate finishing as the topic here, almost can't have enough videos about the subject. I have a great book that really opened my eyes to the possibilities, "Wood Finishing with George Frank" by the late George Frank I would highly reccomend it.
inouveaution 1 year ago
This is nice. But I have an idea. Could you cover up HVLP? Like pros and cons, if shellac / poly can be reduced and sprayed on and if so, if lacquer thinner or mineral spirit should be used to reduce and if it has any effect on the wood etc... I hate brushes and i'm sure there are more people like me out there. Thanks for all the vids, they are great.
cyberyiyo 1 year ago 3
One interesting test would be to put the duct tape and the aluminum tape over the damage caused by the epoxy damage. again, it would only show how damage can continue based off an initial damage, but that might be a factor in why people say not to do this. Great video though, Thanks!
woodengamer 1 year ago
maybe the monsters will show up in time due to temperature variations, vibrations, some chemical reactions between the two...
1stfreestuff 1 year ago
You have some of the coolest t-shirts
dgmunch 1 year ago
You should put them in the sun for about a week and if that doesn't do anything maybe get extreme and take a heat gun to them and see if the waxed one behaves differently.
Mopardude 1 year ago
so poly might not stick to everything, but if you were using shellac (wax or unwaxed) as a top coat, do you have to worry about what its going over?
ironlionkalo 1 year ago
@ironlionkalo Shellac pretty much binds to everything. That's what makes it such a great sealer. It can seal off impurities and oils in the wood, allowing your other more sensitive finishes to bind.
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
it was a good video keep them coming i am sure you had a good time doing your big science experiment
myfaceback100 1 year ago
There really wasn't much difference between them. Most of them were a little ragged at the edges.
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
Great Video Mark,
I wonder if the chemical reaction or heat of the epoxy setting actually pulled up the top coats rather than adhesion?
wakeboarderblunt 1 year ago
@wakeboarderblunt Yeah I don't know. I think the epoxy test was a bust simply because all it told us was not to get epoxy on our furniture. :)
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
So what happens if you leave the test boards out in the sun for a few hot days?
donaldsquire 1 year ago
@donaldsquire I'll give it a shot and let you know.
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
I appreciated the test. I have never used one finish over another but it is good to know I could. Maybe keep the test pieces and at a later date, show the results?? Good stuff! Keep it up : )
RCShadow 1 year ago
@RCShadow will do!
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
Question now: Does that also apply to a damaged finish? Would the glue maybe go between the layers of poly and shellac?
Well, but i also don't see it if shellac is used as a sealer, i tried a 1 pound cut recently,
it seals the grain a but the poly would definitely still have contact with the wood after a very light sanding of the shellac, and it's not like it got silicon in it or something.
Xar0mir 1 year ago
@Xar0mir I wouldn't really count on the glue doing anything productive to a finish. So damaged or not, I wouldn't recommend using epoxy on the surface.
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
did you try to see how the finishes reacted to impacts? (a few blows with a nylon hammer could do the job without leaving heavy marks like metal ones)
btw imho yours is a good test. I agree that a heavy coat of shellac could cause problems, but your experiment proves that a thin coat is good enough :)
Shannariano 1 year ago
@Shannariano Haven't done any impact testing. But I did do further adhesion testing using a Scotch tape test. I used an x-acto knife to create a grid of cuts and then put the tape over top of that. Neither duct tape or scotch tape could pull up any finish.
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
Man! your pretty game stealing your wifes nice measuring cups, i dont think i would live to tell the tale lol
At least the test showed us if you get apoxy on finished wood...its pretty much stuffed:P
Tarhini 1 year ago
What about Lacquer and Shellac? I prefer Lacquer even tho it stinks to high heaven...
fenderpaman16 1 year ago
This vid is one of the most important things a woodworker must know. Thank you Marc, you are so full of goodness sharing this Ciao friend !
julioyaldonza 1 year ago
shellac an poly...your a maniac !...totally out of control....lol
squidskunk 1 year ago
Thanks to you for making this video, I will def try this shellac/poly combo out.
Just tell your wife you dropped the pyrex by accident to avoid the grilling : )
pberglin 1 year ago
@pberglin oh I didn't think of that! Great idea. :)
TheWoodWhisperer 1 year ago
always wondered thanks fo rthe answer
TheFishingschool 1 year ago
good advice!!
psychodelicdragon 1 year ago