TheYellowbellyfins, MrBlockTheHood, blockthehood or whoever next is idiot, lout, ultimate trol or have mental problems and something against Finland. He made always new account. Please, ingnore this stupid kid and mark his messages as trash. Dont reply to him or anything. DONT FEED THE TROLL. I have try to argue whit him several time but it is totaly useless because he have no any reason, sense or arguments and dont care what you reply him. He only try to cause disturbances and make other angry.
Now, it says: "At the signing, Ribbentrop and Stalin enjoyed warm conversations, exchanged toasts".
Then, as per the pact, Nazis started their invasionSS on 1.9.1939, and the RuSSians on 17.9. 1939. It says: "the two armies (RuSSian and Nazi) warmly greeted one another in Poland", and "after Hitler's invasion of the Netherlands, Stalin sent his congratulations to him".
@USSWISCONSIN64 USSR (184 million people) invaded Finland (3.5 million). Despite of the overwhelming superiority in man-power and military hardware, their casualties were ten times higher than those of the Finns.
As one would expect, they were gaining a upper hand in the end; however, due to exhaustion, and a low morale, and for the fear of the West's involvement in the war on Finnish side, the Soviets hastily agreed to a cease-fire.
Winter war for Russians was nothing but a disaster. Humilation
Not at all. Finns glory in their past and deny nothing. Unlike liars who say Katyn never happened, Finns started the war, only military targets were bombed at the start of the Winter War, the buffer zone theory, etc. It says the two armies (RuSSian and Nazi) "warmly greeted one another in Poland in 1939".
RuSSian and Nazi invaders reaping havoc throughout Europe to same drum beat. Butcher Stalin sent his congratulations to butcher Hitler after the Nazis occupied Netherlands.
@obuBBubo were you reading some russian historybooks, because that was the excuse to attack finland. check Shelling of Mainila from wikipedia the you know the truth. and your knowledge of history is quit narrow because you obviously dont know the history from the other side.
@TheYellowbellyfins your caps got stuck because i see you in every video writing that fins are fuckin cowards whit caps on. i believe that soviets were cowards when they attacked much smaller nations whit 10x superior power... example estonia, latvia, lithuania and Finland. and i think that you are some damn stupid american who thinks that guerilla war is for cowards, by the experience of irak and afganistan.
@TheYellowbellyfins Ahahah? Cowardly? Yes, being attacked by troops over 10x their size and fighting them straight on with ambushes, cutting supply lines, fighting in trenches, attacking with skis, and taking down tanks with molotov and wood sounds VERY cowardly to me!
But I remember them, you fathers and mothers (already gone) from behind the Ural mountain, Ukraine, etc. I remember your sons in the unmarked mass-graves over which trees grow taller and greener. They amounted to nothing to those whom humans were but material to be used and then ruthlessly discarded.
I remember your sons and give them justice, and acknowledge their sacrifice, their deaths, their graves.
@obuBBubo bla bla bla:) very bombastic and pathetic. all fallen soviet soldiers are accounted and reported by military command. each one name are known and has status: live, kia, mia and wounded. but those reports were classified until beginning of 1990th. so 15 years ago the numbers of casualties were publicised by Krivosheev and in 1997 translated on english. end of story.
@kolja2003 Not at all. As someone said before; you despise you fellow Russians by your insisting on your FALSE numbers.
As to "personal attacks"; I don't think I've attacked you personally - I just said: go back to your previous posts and correct your lies there (which are many).
As to numbers: you're but just one Russian quoting them (and that book) - and make no mistake; you're all rejected as new Stalinists trying to falsify known facts. Let's call yous "What-Katyn-people".
@obuBBubo Moreover, if you speak of logic; it defies the logic to think that the Soviets would've kept silent for 50 years when the west was suggesting their high casualties of war. Nah. They would've pulled out those "so secret documents" in a flash. But they didn't. Logic:
- If people have something to hide, they don't talk about it
So, the Soviet documents were/are as good as "what katyn", "Finns started the war", "Mainila was done by Finns", "only military targets were bombed in 1939"; that is, those documents are as good as toilet paper, or Stalin's book "The falsifiers of history", or his doctored photos (erasing from them persons he disliked). That is; a lot of lies have rolled over Russian lips; and when reading below, the trend seems to be continuing.
@obuBBubo i ask you to use your head and answer question: how western historians possibly can count soviet casualties if all battlefields are left in hands of soviets and nonsoviet has no access there. so there is only realiable source is soviet military casualty reports in russian archives today. that count gives 86000 soviet irreversible casualties (kia+mia+died in hospitals). thats it. it was publicized in 1993 but went ignored by west since contradict coldwar time propaganda.
@kolja2003 Your problem is that you fancy yourself as some authority on the topic. ur NOT. With your 86000 you've completely lost any credibility whatsoever - number of your utube countrymen trolls would correct you and tell you that the correct figure is 127448 and a half, a lost horse, and a grandmother who slipped on a soap.
You don't seem to get it; Communists were caught out as liars. The whole system was but a one big continuous litany of lies - spoken and written. Toilet paper.
@obuBBubo I not fancy myself as authority but i simply amazed how today when the information are free on internet there are so mythes and propaganda. those mythes got flourished 40-50 years ago because it was coldwar and propaganda and real numbers was classified so western historians flied thier imagination freely. i can understand that. but today when those numbers of losses openly publicised already and everyone may read them why you still stick to those old time mythes? Why?
@obuBBubo did i talked about wiki? those number 86000 soviet losses in winter war publicised by G.F. Krivosheyev, 'Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses in the twentieth century', London, Greenhill Books, 1997, ISBN 1853672807 (ISBN 9781853672804). it is english translation of his 1993 book based on soveit military casualty reports from Ministry of Defense Central Archive, Podolsk, Moscow region, Russia.
@obuBBubo it is funny who you tend to support former hardcore communists stalinists like molotov and even kruschev if it suits your mythes:). those 2 are real commie thugs but you take thier words over army generals like mereyskov or krivosheev cause latter tell contratictory story to your opinions. so hard headery:)
@kolja2003 Molotov was angry and spoke his mind. Khrushchev was dying and wanted to set the records straight. Also, let's not forget that he was anti-stalinist; and that the war occurred under Stalin's rule. So, we can expect him to expose Stalin's lies and web of deception.
@kolja2003 "those mythes got flourished 40-50 years ago because it was coldwar and propaganda and real numbers was classified so western historians flied thier imagination freely"
Your "logic" just committed a suicide. Had the "real" numbers been 87000; SU would've screamed it from every roof-top those 40-50 years ago; i.e. there would've been nothing to hide. BUT they didn't. Why? Because the REAL numbers were shown by pine forests growing taller than the surrounding.
@kolja2003 Meretzikov vs. Khrushchev. The loser Meretzikov would tell anything to show himself in a better light, rather than: "how many did you lose?" 200 000; "what ground did you gain?" One kilometre. Wait!! Two. I think..
Khrushchev is something else:
- First Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from 1953 to 1964
- Chairman of the Council of Ministers, or Premier, from 1958 to 1964
- a commissar, an intermediary between Stalin and his generals; etc.
@obuBBubo again about khruschev. he told about like "maybe mln peoples loss" in context of remembering CIVILIAN losses by hunger in blockaded by finns and germans Leningrad 1941-44. He told no numbers concerning miilitary casualties during winter war 1940! I red his book myself. it is free on internet but on russian language. Meretskov is in opposite a military general the commander of red army in winter war. so HE is the authority about winter war not khruschev.
@kolja2003 Meretskov was a loser and removed from command, arrested, beaten up and almost executed. When our Gorby was in charge, he tells: "I SAW...." and goes on to tell about Stalin era going on. Khrushchev was in charge longer, and was with Stalin (see the list below). And yes, when INTERVIEWED he tells much about the Winter War, Stalin, etc.
Now, ALL-KNOWING Krushchev says 1 1/2 million were sent, half a million came back. There's the top mark, some put it at a half a million.
@obuBBubo is: "a large and powerful bird, smaller than the Golden Eagle but larger than the Snowy Owl." BUT "TheYellowbellyfins" is a LIE, and hence dirty LIAR. - 3.5 million against 184 million - 180 000 soldiers vs. over 2 000 000 - 30 tanks vs. 3400 tanks - 114 planes vs. over 2000 - a few small wwi artillery pieces vs. thousands of most modern ones straight from the assembly lines - 24 000 dead vs 250 000 "TheYellowbellyfins" IS a LIE and hence, a LIAR
@kolja2003 No. You would think, right, but read about the most successful mottis that Finnish Army conducted. Unbelievable stories. In one battle, Russians lost over a thousand men to Finnish defensive lines within ONE HOUR with no remarkable casualties on Finnish side.
But hey, you're Russian, so you're probably been taught differently in school. I mean, after all, the Russian custom is that whenever they lost in something they write empty pages about it in their history books.
@OnlyLifeMatters unbelievable story indeed more like fairy tale. a soviet finish war were written and filmed plenty. i admit that during soviet times lot of information were hidden. but last 20 years everything was published including goals of war, tatics and casualties. but finns didn't notice those publications and stick to thier old cold war type mythes. your problem not ours.
@kolja2003 Your attitude bothers me...you may not realize it yourself, but you're actually dishonoring the fallen soviet soldiers by denying their existence. They were not a myth, ordinary family men who died in the front!
Read about the Battle of the Suomussalmi or Battle of the Raate Road. Finnish defensive victories are not fairy tales.
Type "Battle of the Suomussalmi Wikipedia" and "Battle of the Raate Road Wikipedia", and read them. Then come back to me.
@OnlyLifeMatters The difference between Finland and Soviet Union was, after all, that only Soviet Union had myths about Winter War. Finns were honest about it all the way, as Finland was open democracy where information was free for people to get their hands on.
@OnlyLifeMatters tell me about mythes:). propaganda is propaganda if it soviet or if it democratic. propaganda is kind of advertisement. its where you tell favorable facts and ommit unfavorable. technically you don't lie but the picture is distorted anyways because people don't see unfavorable facts. so democratic propaganda is very wide spred like advertisement in the world. if you don't see it then you are blind.
@OnlyLifeMatters Ambushes on supply convoys. so what? there were some losses then soviet adapted. but you cann't win wars by ambushes. and finns lost war eventually and repayed soviets all losses that is what is important. now after 70 years finns try to replay the war and to redeem themselves by exxagerating soviet losses or rewrite purposes of war to thier likes. so finns sound exactly like georgians today after 888 war. i think it is funny:).
They were not just some "losses that soviet adapted". Yes, technically Finland lost the war and we're not trying to deny it by any means. It is, however, debatable if Soviet Union won either; original goal of USSR was 100% conquest over Finland, but they got only 10% and got way higher casualties
@OnlyLifeMatters Maybe you right about finn casualties but official number of soviet casualties were publicized in 1993 when soviet war arhives were declassified. it is about 86000 men. Original goal of ussr was to return lands taken by finland in 1918 when soviet power was weak. so when ussr became stronger it decided to redraw forced border of 1918. The roots of war was in 1918.
@kolja2003 For your information, Soviet Union left some 300 000 men on Finnish side of border. This fact is backed up not only by Finnish researchers, but others as well.
Lands "taken by Finland in 1918" are the lands that Russia took from Sweden in 1809, so they weren't fundamentally Russian property. Read about winter war from wikipedia, any foreign book or watch any documentary about it, you'll get the facts I gave you. Russian sources in this case are considered widely unreliable.
@OnlyLifeMatters And by "300 000" men I mean dead men, and Soviet Union denied their existence. So no one really cares about the Soviet archives in this case, because those archives weren't included with those 300 000 fallen soldiers. Thereby they're utterly unreliable.
@OnlyLifeMatters funny:) how can finns count soviet casualties if they lost battlefields and had no access to russian archives? russians do not claim that they know finn casualties better then finns themselves. why finns clam that? so maybe let russians count soviet casualties since red army archives ar ein moscow but let finns count finn casulties for similar reason? i think it is fair.
@kolja2003 I said it already, because of the uncollected DEAD RUSSIAN BODIES on the Finnish side of border. It's not hard to count 300 000 bodies, if they're lying on your country's soil. Russians lied about their casualties for almost a century, so it's only logical not to trust them anymore. Finns don't claim it, but rather the HISTORIANS IN GENERAL all over the world, from all other nations as well.
I quote myself
"those [soviet] archives weren't included with those 300 000 fallen soldiers"
@OnlyLifeMatters historians in general? who are they? i didn't hear that until lately any historian in general get access to soviet war archives. so they probably refer finn sources not soviet. then we came to same conclusion. those historians are gullible:)
@kolja2003 I said it already, because of the uncollected DEAD RUSSIAN BODIES on the Finnish side of border. It's not hard to count 300 000 bodies, if they're lying on your country's soil. Russians lied about their casualties for almost a century, so it's only logical not to trust them anymore. Finns don't claim it, but rather the HISTORIANS IN GENERAL all over the world, from all other nations as well.
I quote myself
"those [soviet] archives weren't included with those 300 000 fallen soldiers"
@OnlyLifeMatters dude all battlefields of winter war came to soviet hands where it were left according peace treaty. soviets didn't lie they simply didn't comment it since they wanted good trade relations with finland so let finns get some relief of convincing themselves that they lost bravely. soviets simply snickered on finns but kept silence since vyborg was soviet town which was important but finn fairy tales wasn't. that is the cause.
@OnlyLifeMatters fyi soviet losses confirmed by casualty reports filed by field commanders to head staffs. those reports were processed and real number of irreversible losses (kia+died in hospotals) counted by head staffs: 86000. I don't know where finn researchers could possibly take thier number of soviet losses (300000) if battle fields were left to red army and finns were not allowed to red army archives. i presume that those numbers (300000) are fictional.
@OnlyLifeMatters about land taken in 1809. you should know that those lands belonged to novgorod and swedes took it from them before 1809. but novgorod is russia. so swedes took it from us which was retaken back in 1809.
@kolja2003 "Maybe you right about finn casualties but official number of soviet casualties were publicized in 1993 when soviet war arhives were declassified. it is about 86000 men."
Lol, most of you Russians are saying it was 127448; found another FALSE document written by some terror-stricken stooge of Stalin. However, "nobody was counting"-statement is to the mark.
ps. the battle above alone cost SU 23 000 casualties (plus 1400 Ukrainian pows executed by NKVD upon their release by the Finns)
@obuBBubo 23000 losses in the convoy ambush? dude you are megalomaniac:) and i didn't say that no one counted soviet losses anyone who learned english may read that in my previous posts. what I did say is that no sources except soviet military reports are relevant since battlefields are left in hands of soviets and there were no sattelites at that time to count soviet losses from above. finns and everyone else may know finnish casualties so but not soviet.
@kolja2003 For the starters, why don't you click on the "Show more" above, and then do some further digging.
Actually, the "no one was counting" I read elsewhere a few months ago. As to "soviet military reports"; forget them, they were (are) not worth the paper they are written on; they were made to look good for Moscow, so the Stalin's stooges could keep their heads.
Khrushchev said 1 1/2 million were sent, one million came back. I believe him.
@obuBBubo CoRRRRRection: the "1 1/2 million were sent, one million came back"; should've read: ".....1/2 million came back". That is, SU according to him lost 1 million soldiers at Finnish front in 1939-44.
@obuBBubo I rered Khuschev reminiscenses. there no such words. he said that finn wars cost ussr "maybe mln men" but it is because when hitler attacked ussr finns joined with him and blockaded leningrad from north. so he meant civilian casualties. he wasn't military man so he said nothing about numbers of military casualties. also he added that stalin didn't want to occupy whole finland just redraw injust border of 1918. thats it.
@kolja2003 Your memoirs must be a KGB version, lol. TODAY's archives are worthless. Shredding machines must've been working non-stop in recent years. Wonder how many forgerers there're sweating away as we speak. Hmm...now that chekist is going to get back there....Lights out. Good night Russia. There was so much potential in 1990's...
@obuBBubo if you claim that then please show me a reference on your nonKGB version of khruschev book. Where when in what context khruschev said or wrote what you claim. but seems to me you use that "kgb argument" which is typeof conspirancy argument since you ran out of LOGICAL arguments. so you turn to conscirancy theory right? so now its matter of beleive now not knowledge anymore?
@kolja2003 I've seen your "logic" my friend, and respond accordingly, lol. That is, whatever is said here, you'd call it (and have called) western propaganda. It says, "don't throw your pearls before pig lest they tear you up". So I don't.
I suggest you go back to your posts below and correct yourself on your lies and be a good Russian. It's not too late.
@obuBBubo so when you fail into LOGIC department then you turn to personal attacks. I didn't call you a lier on base you don't agree with me. i accept your opinion but try to analyze it. but you act like true beleiver (you) met to erectic (me). it is your problem but seems to me you are like those who thought that sun spinning around earth 300 years ago. when i show you real picture you call me names.
@kolja2003 That's childish. Go back to your first post in relation to my writing (which was true and history & fact-based), and see if you made any kind of LOGICAL argument at all. As I say, you've shown yourself as one who would swear black white without even blinking; so what's the point. With some people you can reason; I'm afraid you're not one of those.
@kolja2003 Check it up if you like. Like, from other than Finnish or Russian historians. I never, at any point, said that I used Finnish sources, because, unlike you I understand that my country's estimations could be biased. So I searched it up on english wikipedia.
Don't use Soviet or Finnish sources for this. Soviet lied the numbers (even in their archives) for imago reasons, and Finns didn't have probably the means to count all the dead at the time. So use external sources, please.
@OnlyLifeMatters dude just think how any sources except finish for finn side or soviet for soviet side may have any numbers of casualties of war if no one except finn and soviet sides participated in war? how any sources may ever count casualties? from above from space sattelites? but no sattelites in that time. so any sources may either imagine or use the first hand documents (field officer reports) of both sides. so no relable sources except finn and soviet reports for each side of cause.
@kolja2003 Check it up if you like. Like, from other than Finnish or Russian historians. I never, at any point, said that I used Finnish sources, because, unlike you I understand that my country's estimations could be biased. So I searched it up on english wikipedia.
Don't use Soviet or Finnish sources for this. Soviet lied the numbers (even in their archives) for imago reasons, and Finns didn't have probably the means to count all the dead at the time. So use external sources, please.
@kolja2003 And besides, if NIKITA FUCKING KRUCHEV THE SOVIET PRESIDENT said that 1,5 men were lost either MIA or KIA on Finnish Front, doesn't that sound even higher than Finnish numbers?
"According to Nikita Khrushchev, 1.5 million men were sent to Finland and one million of them were killed, while 1,000 aircraft, 2,300 tanks and armored cars and an enormous amount of other war materials were lost.[17][18] Finland's losses were limited to 25,904 dead or missing[19] and 43,557 wounded"
as said in wikipedia under "Aftermath of the Winter War". So sorry, it wasn't 1,5 million dead soviets but 1 million - according to Khrushchev, that is. I stick with Finnish estimates
@OnlyLifeMatters dude those refs 17,18 are not to khruschev' but to some western guys: maddock and mosier. that is what i'm talking about. some western guys never allowed to the real first hand military field reports how they ever may know anything about casualties? use your brains:) it is just coldwar propaganda. and i red hruschev book on russian. he told about "1 mln lost" but he meant the civilian population of leningrad lost to hunger during blockade caused by finns and hitlerites.
@FFulmenTheFinnish so i red khruschev book. he tells that 2 finish wars costed many men "maybe a million" but becausr at GP war finns hit from rear and blocked town leningrad together with hitlerites. so hunger of leningrad population caused by finns costed many men. it is true. but he said nothing concerning military actions except some rumors. he wasn't military man so he knew less. better to read the reminisenses of merestkov who was supreme field commander of red army on winter war.
@kolja2003 Now you're confusing the Winter War (1939-40) with a different war, the Continuation War (1941-44). What he said wasn't about the Continuation War, but the Winter War, where Finland was alone against Russia. In the Continuation War Finland received aid from Germany but was not a part of the Axis and did NOT take part of the siege on Leningrad in any way. Finland simply retook her part of the Isthmus back.
To some facts seem to be propaganda, and propaganda facts. Unfortunately, you fall into the latter category. Now, at this time and age it is inexcusable. Rubels pay-packet in the picture...?
Meaning: weakening southern army for strengthening north could've spelled disaster in the south.
Also, Stalin COULDN'T not have done it; because it was in him to get to Berlin first (man ALWAYS does that which is topmost in his heart).
As for asserting Russians' sitting down to the negotiation table to be a "proof" that there was no plan to occupy all of the land; is like saying that FAILURE to conquer a mountain peak is the proof that the climber never intended to reach the mountaintop.
But in 44 was payback time. In 44 Finland decided to sell out its ally and change side. The roar of Russians artillery made them to forget about national socialism
@steelhelex "But in 44 was payback time." Payback for what!? Getting back your own land, and the second biggest city of the nation, and returning some 1/2 million exiles back to their own homes, and paying bank-robbers the costs of their bank-robbing in 1939.
However, one day, Russia will pay for all the CRIMES it has committed, CRIMES the past and current generation so expediently tries to white-wash. Well, try as you may, the blood of the innocent still cries out for the justice.
@steelhelex What war criminals....? Remember, the provoked walk free. It's called a self-defence. Law makes that pretty clear. So, there're only one set of criminals as far as Finns and Russians are concerned.
Btw, your "roaring artillery" was brought to halt at Tali Ihantala Ilomantsi, and Stalin's surrender offer rejected. So much for your twisted knowledge of history. "After the defeat of our army, in 1944, Stalin lost his nerve" (Khrushchev).
@steelhelex "Finland decided to sell out its ally and change side" Yeah, right. It says, "Stalin toasted Hitler" and "repeatedly toasted the pact (invasion, sic) and the German people. That was in August 1939!! There's a true alliance - done WILLINGLY, and under NO duresses - unlike the weapons-getting by the Finns from Germany to fight against Russians who always had the mind to try again to occupy all of Finland. Particularly, after their miserable fiasco of 1939.
@steelhelex Rubbish! In 1989 (and onwards) Soviet secrets were revealed for world to know. Stalinists can say what they want, makes no difference to facts.
@obuBBubo Germany and The USSR just drafted the spheres of interests. And I could not understand why could France and England share Checoslovakia with Germany. Why did not Germany and The USSR draft the spheres of interests?
@steelhelex Did French and British troops occupy foreign countries together with Nazis? Russians did. Did they have parades with Nazis in Praque? Russians were parading side by side with Nazis in Warsaw. Also, Nazi and Soviet propaganda machines kept busy in lying to populaces how the "SSoviet and Nazzi armies were fighting the terrible Polish Fascists" (together that is).
There's a distinct difference that does not go away whatever is said by whomever wherever, or whenever. Period.
@obuBBubo French and England managed to occupy foreign countries without hitler. They had numerous colonies abroad. As to Poland they shared Checoslovakia with hitler seized Cieszyn Silesia to say nothing about our occupied parts of Ukraine and Belarussia. They took advantage of our civil war and seized some lands in 20s.
@steelhelex What war criminals....? Remember, the provoked walk free. It's called a self-defence. Law makes that pretty clear. So, there're only one set of criminals as far as Finns and Russians are concerned.
Btw, your "roaring artillery" was brought to halt at Tali Ihantala Ilomantsi, and Stalin's surrender offer rejected. So much for your twisted knowledge of history. "After the defeat of our army, in 1944, Stalin lost his nerve" (Khrushchev).
@obuBBubo To think that you could stop our army in 44 ridiculous. The most interesting thing is why your negotiators ran in Moscow as though their pants was in fire?
@steelhelex "To think that you could stop our army in 44 is ridiculous." It is most ridiculous indeed. I agree. But it is a FACT. The Red Army was STOPPED at Tali/Ihantala/Ilomantsi, and couldn't get further. History tells us so. And so do Molotov and Chrushchev.
As to running; on the contrary, the Finns refused Stalin's demand to surrender and kept fighting (and soften him even more, lol).
Another ridiculous victory is shown by this video.
@obuBBubo As to VKT-line though the Finish Army managed to stop the Red Army offensive it was a matter of time to be defeated and the peace treatment is one more proof that there was no intension to occupy Finland.
@steelhelex Actually, you're wrong. Troops allotted to northern war-theatre FAILED to reach their objectives - that of a total occupation of Finland. There were no further forces available for the campaign to continue. Red Army was stuck. Period. Had re-enforcement been brought from the south; who knows what would've happened. Secondly, as Khrushchev said, "Stalin lost his nerve", (his ambition to occupy Finland); consequently, he pulled much of the northern army out to get to Berlin first.
Bullshit. Stalin claimed that he only wanted to move the border, but he and the russian military commanders did the plans of conguering finland, they calculated that it would take two weeks when russians march in Helsinki but what did happen? 105 days hard fighting and Russains got very heavy casualties.
Russians used Mass, tehy hadnt tactics. Finss didnt have so much manpower/technology so they used their heads and tactics, and it worked.
Yeah, like events in Moscow this week. It all looked so "democratic" indeed. Just like good old Stalin days. Oh well, what do you expect when the majority of Russians are idolizing a member of Hell's Angels riding a three-wheeler into a hazy dope cloud to demonstrate his "toughness". Another Stalin in making.
@TheYellowbellyfins NOT so. The world called them "heroic". Secondly, our words tell much about us. You're no exception to the rule. Thirdly:
"By definition, any and every wrong action finds itself in a defeated position, and thus rendering every WRONGDOER a loser"
Stalin/Russians were losers. And so are you. Hence: a loser wakes up in the morning, looks in a mirror, shoves in the cornflakes, sits in front of his comp and continues on with his flaming /WRONGDOING. How does it feel?
@TheYellowbellyfins When you grow old enough to go to school, you should read some history. Stalin`s losses in the winter war were one of the major reasons Hitler attacked russians in 1941. He thought they were weak. Which they weren`t. So Hitler lost. So without us you would propably speak german now. Remember that when calling finns cowardly dogs and nazis
Quote: "In July (1989, sic), on the eve of the anniversary of the signing of the Nazi-Soviet Pact, it was formally revealed that the treaty did indeed include a plan for the annexation of the Baltic countries into the USSR (as happened in 1940) and the division of Poland between the two countries. The unsavory past was exposed and gave impetus to the peoples of the Baltic countries who could now even more legitimately claim that they were subject to oppression."
i know that u didnrt learn that much figting in the 2nd world warld, I am just so proud what our grandfathers did for us... i know its hard for u to u imagine but our fathers saved our world
"Falsifiers of History" is a book published by the Soviet Information Bureau, edited and partially re-written by Joseph Stalin, in response to documents made public in January 1948 regarding German–Soviet relations before and after the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact."
"Stalin's account in Falsifiers was repeated in Soviet historical texts until the Soviet Union's dissolution"
Nation was brain-washed with lies that long; no wonder then they all sound the same.
@Heightofhate It says that "Stalin toasted Hitler...., and that he, "repeatedly toasted the pact (invasion), and the German People". And that when the two occupation armies of INDEPENDENT NATIONS of Europe met in Poland: "they WARMLY greeted each other."
So there you individual with a selected hearing. Truth is a funny thing - nothing you can do against it.
@Heightofhate Ok. Picture this: Molotov and Ribbentrop are sitting down with that Georgian Jew standing on the background. Smiling. After the signatures are done. Stalin pulls out this Vodka bottle and raises his glass and says "To Hitler!!" All around respond: "To Hitler". Then he warms up and REPEATEDLY begins "toasting the pact (invasion) and the German people".
He was on a roll and well lubricated; it was a high noon in Moscow; when Nazis and Russians toasted each other.
@obuBBubo And I went to St.Petersburg and met old Finns there who said they found it disgusting that during the Russian Civil War Finns in Finland didn't give a damn for fighting bolsheviks beyond the Finnish border and forgot about the Finns living elsewhere in Russia and that it was a chauvinistic crime by the newborn Finland.
That's what they said.
After the UK's, France's and Poland's pact with Hitler on his occupation of Czechoslovakia was signed in 1938 Stalin was glad to have one, too.
@Heightofhate "After the UK's, France's and Poland's pact with Hitler on his occupation of Czechoslovakia was signed in 1938 Stalin was glad to have one, too."
- NO western troops crossed into neighbouring countries as Russians and Nazis did. There's a HUGE difference between the two; between an appeasement and a common aggression.
@obuBBubo No, I'm not speaking of Finns who acted like lousy bankrobbers in 1917, I'm speaking of a unique military victory of the Red Army who broke through the Mannerheim Line in Arctic Winter.
I know no similar battles and victories, especially with weapons of the 30s.
@Heightofhate Wow! you've been busy in hiding the truth, and lying your head off. Oh well; you have your job to do; guess you have to...What if you went to them bosses and say that you can't do it any longer, and that you'd prefer a forum that deals with disgruntled shoppers or something....
Hmm...there is NO GLORY!! for a monster (150+ million) to be humiliated by a neighbour's ten year old boy. Btw, how's your nose...; still hurting...?
@Heightofhate "You're sooo Georgian - they also say that they are small and fought against 142 mln"
- Repeat: Russia COULD'VE EASILY overrun Georgia, if it wanted to. But NOT SO with Finland. Red Army WAS STOPPED at Tali/Ihantala/Ilomantsi (and elsewhere). Period. There were no re-enforcements available from the south; so, the only option Stalin had was to drop the unconditional surrender demand, and sit down at the table and begin negotiating.
@obuBBubo The Red Army was very often stopped by Germans too - but the war ended with Germany still being overrun by the Red Army.
Stalin was in no hurry for Finland's occupation had he wanted it. He could have easily left Finland for 1945 just like he left Manchuria and Japan.
That's why those were Finns who first asked for negotiations and Stalin's ultimatum to start fight Germans was well fullfilled by Finns - they followed Stalin's orders fighting those who had been on their side for years
@Heightofhate "The Red Army was very often stopped by Germans too"
- Red Army ground to halt and COULDN'T go further. Also, Berlin was waiting; to use northern forces, he HAD to have peace negotiations in place. Had he pulled them out; Finn's counter attack would've been very much in the cards.
No. Stalin COULN'T have waited. Man MUST do, and CANNOT BUT do except that which is topmost in his heart. Stalin had Berlin in his. He had no choice on the matter per se.
@Heightofhate Moreover, when the west, after the war, started questioning Stalin's occupations; he CO-EDITED a book "Falsification of History" , and came up with these fairy tales about "buffer zones" and stuff. His lies became a text-book which brain-washed yous Russians; and therefore you speak with one voice.
With one exception: going back a few months there was a Russian; who openly apologised for Russia's wrongs and signed it (put his full name under the post).
@obuBBubo What is "the west"? Germany and Italy fighting England and the USA or the USA and England bombing Germany and Italy to ashes?
Stalin co-edited a book "Falsification of History"? Wow, I didn't know Stalin did some editing. Show us the link to this book, please, I couldn't find on the Net, neither in Russian nor in English.
Did Stalin publish it "in the west" to gain the public opinion for him? ))
Did his books brainwash only the ethnic Russians? What did happen to the others in USSR?
@obuBBubo As you can see, I've never read this book and I'm even trying to find it but I cannot
Moreover, under Khrushov whom you love so much all Stalin's book, including the co-edited ones, were banned and nowhere for sale, thus, they couldn't have any influence at all, especially on the generations born in the 60s and on
A Russian who apoligized? I know, Russians are fogiving and, as traditional Christians, think that to assume someone others sins and ask the enemies for forgiveness is good
@Heightofhate "A Russian who apoligized? I know, Russians are fogiving and, as traditional Christians, think that to assume someone others sins and ask the enemies for forgiveness is good"
- I don't believe you can be this twisted! He apologised for MURDERS, widows, orphans, suffering, stealing and for all the ills YOU Russians brought on innocent and peace-loving people.
And here YOU Hate, continue beating those whom that bastard Stalin and co so badly wounded. Repeat: Siberia IS big enough.
@obuBBubo Of course, my dear, deep inside me I think the way you do - as anyone else around, we all think like you - but I'm such a bad guy I'm trying to hide it and I'm lying to deceive nice people - just because I'm so evil.
You must be some Harry Potter fan.
"Somehow", I couldn't find any Stalin's aproval of Finland's occupation in July 1939.
What is "invasion pact with Nazis"? The history knows no such name.
@obuBBubo There were no Soviet troops "allotted" to the North - they have always been there
About the Soviet offensive of 1944: "During the height of the offensive in June 1944 Finns asked for negotiations"
In Aug 44 Finnish commanders said their armed forces could last for not more than 3 months
Soviets could have eaisly blocked Finland, conquered Germany, taken Berlin, and then come back just like they did it with Japan and beat shit out of Finland, but Soviets simply showed understanding.
@obuBBubo Are you really that stupid that you compare your single walk with a movement of a whole army with all its ammo, trucks, wounded, kitchens, materials, dispersed soldiers etc?
Moving even a modern army at a distance of 100 km is a huge and an extremely complicated task.
To move an army under enemy fire through thick woods is 10 times harder.
Of course, the Soviet war machine was "stopped" - after it had made 100 km and gained huge territories which are still Russian and will stay so.
@obuBBubo On 1st Nov 1939 there were 425,640 Soviet servicemen on the front.The overall number of Soviet servicemen on the front: 760,578. The number of soldiers in Leningrad Military District during the war: 998,100
No 1,5 mln Soviet soldiers
The Soviet documents show the name of each Pole executed at Katyn - and were the base for the researchers
I don't know if there were documents on Mainila at all
There are no documents saying Finns started the war
@obuBBubo Finns were surprised at the stupidity of Russians?
And Ukrainians,Belorussians, Germans,Caucasians,Kazakhs surprised Finns with their smartness,right?
When you see soldiers storming a strong position you should call it bravery and not stupidity,especially if they take this position and raise their flag over it
Who are "numbers men"?Some little people living in your head?
Lives of all Soviet soldiers were equal for their commanders
Untrained idiots? Finns were surely trained idiots
@obuBBubo You stayed home and kept warm when Russians were fighting bolsheviks - you should have helped not to complain later
Were those hoods your friends?Did they call you to tell you their ideas?
Maginot Line was much more strong than Mannerheim Line but it was also surrounded by a far better landscape than in Finland and enjoyed a better weather all year round.
But the most important thing - Soviets were the only army to storm such a line. It was a unique acheivement in military history.
@obuBBubo I see Khrushov is a sort of oracle for you, you love citing him so much: "Khrushov said this, Khrushov said that..."
Once again - where is the source showing Khrushov saying it?
Anyway, Khrushov might have said any hogwash,the FACT is that a shabby and unruly Finnish mob of 422,000 moved their asses to a smaller Finland and the Finnish Army, after a good bashing, was humiliated by giving up its positions
Russians parades are the order itself: no out of step marching, no broken lines.
@obuBBubo Where have you found execuses in my words?There is none
But you have execuses for your defeat like "we stayed independent" or "Soviets didn't take Helsinki"
Even if a few Finland's northern provinces were left unoccupied you'd have said: "We're still independent, look, we won the war!"
After the Winter War Finns lost: 11% of their land,30% of the pre-war Finland's economic assets,the 2nd biggest city, 422,000 Finns lost their property
@obuBBubo At the Battle of Raata Road, the 44th Ukrainian Division did not have the officila number of soldiers - 13,962 men (once again, where did you take your 23,000 from?)
The division was understaffed - 2 battalions of its 305th Infantry Regiment were deployed elsewhere.
After the Battle the Division had 9,288.
Stavka set up a SECRET commission in Jan 1940 to investigate the casualties. The Commission reported 4,674 total casualties, where 1,001 dead, 1,430 wounded and 2,243 missing.
In the Battle of Raate Road (the word "road" alone shows the guerilla tactics and the pictures prove it even more) the 44th UKRAINIAN Division of the USSR (Russians again?) lost 7,000 - 9,000 KIA and MIA - it is a Finnish estimation, not Russian!
Where did you take you 23,000 bullshit from? Out of your head, definitely.
TheYellowbellyfins, MrBlockTheHood, blockthehood or whoever next is idiot, lout, ultimate trol or have mental problems and something against Finland. He made always new account. Please, ingnore this stupid kid and mark his messages as trash. Dont reply to him or anything. DONT FEED THE TROLL. I have try to argue whit him several time but it is totaly useless because he have no any reason, sense or arguments and dont care what you reply him. He only try to cause disturbances and make other angry.
Menties1 1 week ago
Te Finns arr dettly vhen pist off.
AtrumMixer 3 weeks ago
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hlipsanen 1 month ago
Thumbs up if WW2 Tweets sent you here.
AlexFreconHD 1 month ago 58
Here from WW2 tweets, awesome Twitter account (the only one I actually follow)
WigTuts 1 month ago 4
@WigTuts Same, great twitter feed.
DCTriv 1 month ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Finland AT THE CENTRE OF EUROPEAN FASCISM HITLERS DIRTY LITTLE HENCHMEN
TheYellowbellyfins 2 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins What the hell is your problem with the Finns? Are you mentally disabled?
RocketBuzzsaw 2 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins is a LIE and a dirty little LIAR.
Now, it says: "At the signing, Ribbentrop and Stalin enjoyed warm conversations, exchanged toasts".
Then, as per the pact, Nazis started their invasionSS on 1.9.1939, and the RuSSians on 17.9. 1939. It says: "the two armies (RuSSian and Nazi) warmly greeted one another in Poland", and "after Hitler's invasion of the Netherlands, Stalin sent his congratulations to him".
- Ah Joseph, too much, you shouldn't..
- It's ok Adolf my chum, muah!
obuBBubo 2 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins Tuleppa sanomaan tuo tänne face-to-face. Kakara . Annan osoitteen jos löytyy miestä .
kettune855 2 months ago
Yeah we yellowbellies did some maneuvres and shooting, and the russians did not win.
tunkki321 2 months ago
i am learning about Finnish history cause i am a Finnish American. what exactly happened during the winter war?
USSWISCONSIN64 3 months ago
@USSWISCONSIN64 USSR (184 million people) invaded Finland (3.5 million). Despite of the overwhelming superiority in man-power and military hardware, their casualties were ten times higher than those of the Finns.
As one would expect, they were gaining a upper hand in the end; however, due to exhaustion, and a low morale, and for the fear of the West's involvement in the war on Finnish side, the Soviets hastily agreed to a cease-fire.
Winter war for Russians was nothing but a disaster. Humilation
obuBBubo 3 months ago
@USSWISCONSIN64
here is actually decent information, Wikipedia - Winter war
did read it just from the start, so i hope rest of it is accurate also.
Numberyksi 2 months ago
@Numberyksi cool thanks.
USSWISCONSIN64 2 months ago
Not at all. Finns glory in their past and deny nothing. Unlike liars who say Katyn never happened, Finns started the war, only military targets were bombed at the start of the Winter War, the buffer zone theory, etc. It says the two armies (RuSSian and Nazi) "warmly greeted one another in Poland in 1939".
RuSSian and Nazi invaders reaping havoc throughout Europe to same drum beat. Butcher Stalin sent his congratulations to butcher Hitler after the Nazis occupied Netherlands.
LEST WE FORGET!
obuBBubo 3 months ago
@obuBBubo were you reading some russian historybooks, because that was the excuse to attack finland. check Shelling of Mainila from wikipedia the you know the truth. and your knowledge of history is quit narrow because you obviously dont know the history from the other side.
"the winners always write the history"
9antsa6 2 months ago
@9antsa6 Que? don't know what ur referring to. Misunderstanding... The UNLIKE is the keyword to what I say below.
obuBBubo 2 months ago
@obuBBubo ok...
9antsa6 2 months ago
THE FINNISH PEOPLE ARE COWARDS WHO TRY TO DENY THERE PAST
TheYellowbellyfins 3 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins is a LIE, and dirty LIAR, and LOSER BY DEFAULT (defeated position = loser)
obuBBubo 3 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins your caps got stuck because i see you in every video writing that fins are fuckin cowards whit caps on. i believe that soviets were cowards when they attacked much smaller nations whit 10x superior power... example estonia, latvia, lithuania and Finland. and i think that you are some damn stupid american who thinks that guerilla war is for cowards, by the experience of irak and afganistan.
9antsa6 2 months ago 2
My ears..
Diablotion 3 months ago
THE FILTHY DISGUSTING COWARDLY FINNS PASS THE SICK BUCKET
TheYellowbellyfins 3 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins Ahahahah. You kids today!
Horrorlord1 3 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins Ahahah? Cowardly? Yes, being attacked by troops over 10x their size and fighting them straight on with ambushes, cutting supply lines, fighting in trenches, attacking with skis, and taking down tanks with molotov and wood sounds VERY cowardly to me!
Horrorlord1 3 months ago 16
@TheYellowbellyfins Is a LIE, and hence, a dirty little LIAR. Loser by default (any and every wrong action finds itself in the defeated position).
obuBBubo 3 months ago
R.I.P Headsett users
GoAndDreamOn 4 months ago 44
@GoAndDreamOn
Lol I turned my audio completely off and still I could hear the narrator.
PatriaFinlandia 4 months ago
"Nobody was counting"
But I remember them, you fathers and mothers (already gone) from behind the Ural mountain, Ukraine, etc. I remember your sons in the unmarked mass-graves over which trees grow taller and greener. They amounted to nothing to those whom humans were but material to be used and then ruthlessly discarded.
I remember your sons and give them justice, and acknowledge their sacrifice, their deaths, their graves.
Rest in peace you brave sons of Russia.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
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obuBBubo 5 months ago
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obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo bla bla bla:) very bombastic and pathetic. all fallen soviet soldiers are accounted and reported by military command. each one name are known and has status: live, kia, mia and wounded. but those reports were classified until beginning of 1990th. so 15 years ago the numbers of casualties were publicised by Krivosheev and in 1997 translated on english. end of story.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 Not at all. As someone said before; you despise you fellow Russians by your insisting on your FALSE numbers.
As to "personal attacks"; I don't think I've attacked you personally - I just said: go back to your previous posts and correct your lies there (which are many).
As to numbers: you're but just one Russian quoting them (and that book) - and make no mistake; you're all rejected as new Stalinists trying to falsify known facts. Let's call yous "What-Katyn-people".
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo Moreover, if you speak of logic; it defies the logic to think that the Soviets would've kept silent for 50 years when the west was suggesting their high casualties of war. Nah. They would've pulled out those "so secret documents" in a flash. But they didn't. Logic:
- If people have something to hide, they don't talk about it
- Soviets had something to hide
- Therefore they didn't talk about it.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
So, the Soviet documents were/are as good as "what katyn", "Finns started the war", "Mainila was done by Finns", "only military targets were bombed in 1939"; that is, those documents are as good as toilet paper, or Stalin's book "The falsifiers of history", or his doctored photos (erasing from them persons he disliked). That is; a lot of lies have rolled over Russian lips; and when reading below, the trend seems to be continuing.
Well, the naive can be deceived, NOT us.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo i ask you to use your head and answer question: how western historians possibly can count soviet casualties if all battlefields are left in hands of soviets and nonsoviet has no access there. so there is only realiable source is soviet military casualty reports in russian archives today. that count gives 86000 soviet irreversible casualties (kia+mia+died in hospitals). thats it. it was publicized in 1993 but went ignored by west since contradict coldwar time propaganda.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 Your problem is that you fancy yourself as some authority on the topic. ur NOT. With your 86000 you've completely lost any credibility whatsoever - number of your utube countrymen trolls would correct you and tell you that the correct figure is 127448 and a half, a lost horse, and a grandmother who slipped on a soap.
You don't seem to get it; Communists were caught out as liars. The whole system was but a one big continuous litany of lies - spoken and written. Toilet paper.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo I not fancy myself as authority but i simply amazed how today when the information are free on internet there are so mythes and propaganda. those mythes got flourished 40-50 years ago because it was coldwar and propaganda and real numbers was classified so western historians flied thier imagination freely. i can understand that. but today when those numbers of losses openly publicised already and everyone may read them why you still stick to those old time mythes? Why?
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 Anyone can write anything on wikipedia. My observation is that you Russians are quite busy falsifying stuff even there.
Dying (Khrushchev) and angry (Molotov) tend to tell the truth. I take their words at face value.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo did i talked about wiki? those number 86000 soviet losses in winter war publicised by G.F. Krivosheyev, 'Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses in the twentieth century', London, Greenhill Books, 1997, ISBN 1853672807 (ISBN 9781853672804). it is english translation of his 1993 book based on soveit military casualty reports from Ministry of Defense Central Archive, Podolsk, Moscow region, Russia.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@obuBBubo it is funny who you tend to support former hardcore communists stalinists like molotov and even kruschev if it suits your mythes:). those 2 are real commie thugs but you take thier words over army generals like mereyskov or krivosheev cause latter tell contratictory story to your opinions. so hard headery:)
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 Molotov was angry and spoke his mind. Khrushchev was dying and wanted to set the records straight. Also, let's not forget that he was anti-stalinist; and that the war occurred under Stalin's rule. So, we can expect him to expose Stalin's lies and web of deception.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@kolja2003 "those mythes got flourished 40-50 years ago because it was coldwar and propaganda and real numbers was classified so western historians flied thier imagination freely"
Your "logic" just committed a suicide. Had the "real" numbers been 87000; SU would've screamed it from every roof-top those 40-50 years ago; i.e. there would've been nothing to hide. BUT they didn't. Why? Because the REAL numbers were shown by pine forests growing taller than the surrounding.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@kolja2003 Meretzikov vs. Khrushchev. The loser Meretzikov would tell anything to show himself in a better light, rather than: "how many did you lose?" 200 000; "what ground did you gain?" One kilometre. Wait!! Two. I think..
Khrushchev is something else:
- First Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from 1953 to 1964
- Chairman of the Council of Ministers, or Premier, from 1958 to 1964
- a commissar, an intermediary between Stalin and his generals; etc.
HE KNEW EVERYTHING!!!!!
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo again about khruschev. he told about like "maybe mln peoples loss" in context of remembering CIVILIAN losses by hunger in blockaded by finns and germans Leningrad 1941-44. He told no numbers concerning miilitary casualties during winter war 1940! I red his book myself. it is free on internet but on russian language. Meretskov is in opposite a military general the commander of red army in winter war. so HE is the authority about winter war not khruschev.
kolja2003 5 months ago
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kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 Meretskov was a loser and removed from command, arrested, beaten up and almost executed. When our Gorby was in charge, he tells: "I SAW...." and goes on to tell about Stalin era going on. Khrushchev was in charge longer, and was with Stalin (see the list below). And yes, when INTERVIEWED he tells much about the Winter War, Stalin, etc.
Now, ALL-KNOWING Krushchev says 1 1/2 million were sent, half a million came back. There's the top mark, some put it at a half a million.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
Dirty Yellow Bellies
TheYellowbellyfins 5 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins is a lousy LIE, and a dirty LIAR
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo is a cowardly finnish prick
TheYellowbellyfins 4 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins Is a LIE and a lousy dirty LIAR.
Got under your skin rusky. How does it feel, lol.
obuBBubo 3 months ago
obuBBubo 3 months ago
Propaganda.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 No. You would think, right, but read about the most successful mottis that Finnish Army conducted. Unbelievable stories. In one battle, Russians lost over a thousand men to Finnish defensive lines within ONE HOUR with no remarkable casualties on Finnish side.
But hey, you're Russian, so you're probably been taught differently in school. I mean, after all, the Russian custom is that whenever they lost in something they write empty pages about it in their history books.
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters unbelievable story indeed more like fairy tale. a soviet finish war were written and filmed plenty. i admit that during soviet times lot of information were hidden. but last 20 years everything was published including goals of war, tatics and casualties. but finns didn't notice those publications and stick to thier old cold war type mythes. your problem not ours.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 Your attitude bothers me...you may not realize it yourself, but you're actually dishonoring the fallen soviet soldiers by denying their existence. They were not a myth, ordinary family men who died in the front!
Read about the Battle of the Suomussalmi or Battle of the Raate Road. Finnish defensive victories are not fairy tales.
Type "Battle of the Suomussalmi Wikipedia" and "Battle of the Raate Road Wikipedia", and read them. Then come back to me.
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters The difference between Finland and Soviet Union was, after all, that only Soviet Union had myths about Winter War. Finns were honest about it all the way, as Finland was open democracy where information was free for people to get their hands on.
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters tell me about mythes:). propaganda is propaganda if it soviet or if it democratic. propaganda is kind of advertisement. its where you tell favorable facts and ommit unfavorable. technically you don't lie but the picture is distorted anyways because people don't see unfavorable facts. so democratic propaganda is very wide spred like advertisement in the world. if you don't see it then you are blind.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters Ambushes on supply convoys. so what? there were some losses then soviet adapted. but you cann't win wars by ambushes. and finns lost war eventually and repayed soviets all losses that is what is important. now after 70 years finns try to replay the war and to redeem themselves by exxagerating soviet losses or rewrite purposes of war to thier likes. so finns sound exactly like georgians today after 888 war. i think it is funny:).
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 What I think is funny is the casualty measurement of the war:
Finland - total casualties: 70 000 men, 30 tanks, 62 aircraft
USSR - total casualties: 323 000 men, 3,543 tanks, 500 aircraft
They were not just some "losses that soviet adapted". Yes, technically Finland lost the war and we're not trying to deny it by any means. It is, however, debatable if Soviet Union won either; original goal of USSR was 100% conquest over Finland, but they got only 10% and got way higher casualties
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters Maybe you right about finn casualties but official number of soviet casualties were publicized in 1993 when soviet war arhives were declassified. it is about 86000 men. Original goal of ussr was to return lands taken by finland in 1918 when soviet power was weak. so when ussr became stronger it decided to redraw forced border of 1918. The roots of war was in 1918.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 For your information, Soviet Union left some 300 000 men on Finnish side of border. This fact is backed up not only by Finnish researchers, but others as well.
Lands "taken by Finland in 1918" are the lands that Russia took from Sweden in 1809, so they weren't fundamentally Russian property. Read about winter war from wikipedia, any foreign book or watch any documentary about it, you'll get the facts I gave you. Russian sources in this case are considered widely unreliable.
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters And by "300 000" men I mean dead men, and Soviet Union denied their existence. So no one really cares about the Soviet archives in this case, because those archives weren't included with those 300 000 fallen soldiers. Thereby they're utterly unreliable.
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
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kolja2003 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters funny:) how can finns count soviet casualties if they lost battlefields and had no access to russian archives? russians do not claim that they know finn casualties better then finns themselves. why finns clam that? so maybe let russians count soviet casualties since red army archives ar ein moscow but let finns count finn casulties for similar reason? i think it is fair.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 I said it already, because of the uncollected DEAD RUSSIAN BODIES on the Finnish side of border. It's not hard to count 300 000 bodies, if they're lying on your country's soil. Russians lied about their casualties for almost a century, so it's only logical not to trust them anymore. Finns don't claim it, but rather the HISTORIANS IN GENERAL all over the world, from all other nations as well.
I quote myself
"those [soviet] archives weren't included with those 300 000 fallen soldiers"
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters historians in general? who are they? i didn't hear that until lately any historian in general get access to soviet war archives. so they probably refer finn sources not soviet. then we came to same conclusion. those historians are gullible:)
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 I said it already, because of the uncollected DEAD RUSSIAN BODIES on the Finnish side of border. It's not hard to count 300 000 bodies, if they're lying on your country's soil. Russians lied about their casualties for almost a century, so it's only logical not to trust them anymore. Finns don't claim it, but rather the HISTORIANS IN GENERAL all over the world, from all other nations as well.
I quote myself
"those [soviet] archives weren't included with those 300 000 fallen soldiers"
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters dude all battlefields of winter war came to soviet hands where it were left according peace treaty. soviets didn't lie they simply didn't comment it since they wanted good trade relations with finland so let finns get some relief of convincing themselves that they lost bravely. soviets simply snickered on finns but kept silence since vyborg was soviet town which was important but finn fairy tales wasn't. that is the cause.
kolja2003 5 months ago
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kolja2003 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters fyi soviet losses confirmed by casualty reports filed by field commanders to head staffs. those reports were processed and real number of irreversible losses (kia+died in hospotals) counted by head staffs: 86000. I don't know where finn researchers could possibly take thier number of soviet losses (300000) if battle fields were left to red army and finns were not allowed to red army archives. i presume that those numbers (300000) are fictional.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters about land taken in 1809. you should know that those lands belonged to novgorod and swedes took it from them before 1809. but novgorod is russia. so swedes took it from us which was retaken back in 1809.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 "Maybe you right about finn casualties but official number of soviet casualties were publicized in 1993 when soviet war arhives were declassified. it is about 86000 men."
Lol, most of you Russians are saying it was 127448; found another FALSE document written by some terror-stricken stooge of Stalin. However, "nobody was counting"-statement is to the mark.
ps. the battle above alone cost SU 23 000 casualties (plus 1400 Ukrainian pows executed by NKVD upon their release by the Finns)
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo 23000 losses in the convoy ambush? dude you are megalomaniac:) and i didn't say that no one counted soviet losses anyone who learned english may read that in my previous posts. what I did say is that no sources except soviet military reports are relevant since battlefields are left in hands of soviets and there were no sattelites at that time to count soviet losses from above. finns and everyone else may know finnish casualties so but not soviet.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 For the starters, why don't you click on the "Show more" above, and then do some further digging.
Actually, the "no one was counting" I read elsewhere a few months ago. As to "soviet military reports"; forget them, they were (are) not worth the paper they are written on; they were made to look good for Moscow, so the Stalin's stooges could keep their heads.
Khrushchev said 1 1/2 million were sent, one million came back. I believe him.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo CoRRRRRection: the "1 1/2 million were sent, one million came back"; should've read: ".....1/2 million came back". That is, SU according to him lost 1 million soldiers at Finnish front in 1939-44.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo I rered Khuschev reminiscenses. there no such words. he said that finn wars cost ussr "maybe mln men" but it is because when hitler attacked ussr finns joined with him and blockaded leningrad from north. so he meant civilian casualties. he wasn't military man so he said nothing about numbers of military casualties. also he added that stalin didn't want to occupy whole finland just redraw injust border of 1918. thats it.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 Your memoirs must be a KGB version, lol. TODAY's archives are worthless. Shredding machines must've been working non-stop in recent years. Wonder how many forgerers there're sweating away as we speak. Hmm...now that chekist is going to get back there....Lights out. Good night Russia. There was so much potential in 1990's...
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo if you claim that then please show me a reference on your nonKGB version of khruschev book. Where when in what context khruschev said or wrote what you claim. but seems to me you use that "kgb argument" which is typeof conspirancy argument since you ran out of LOGICAL arguments. so you turn to conscirancy theory right? so now its matter of beleive now not knowledge anymore?
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 I've seen your "logic" my friend, and respond accordingly, lol. That is, whatever is said here, you'd call it (and have called) western propaganda. It says, "don't throw your pearls before pig lest they tear you up". So I don't.
I suggest you go back to your posts below and correct yourself on your lies and be a good Russian. It's not too late.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo so when you fail into LOGIC department then you turn to personal attacks. I didn't call you a lier on base you don't agree with me. i accept your opinion but try to analyze it. but you act like true beleiver (you) met to erectic (me). it is your problem but seems to me you are like those who thought that sun spinning around earth 300 years ago. when i show you real picture you call me names.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 That's childish. Go back to your first post in relation to my writing (which was true and history & fact-based), and see if you made any kind of LOGICAL argument at all. As I say, you've shown yourself as one who would swear black white without even blinking; so what's the point. With some people you can reason; I'm afraid you're not one of those.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters 3500 tanks and 500 aircrafts? isn't it ridicluos? your historians has good imagination:))
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 Check it up if you like. Like, from other than Finnish or Russian historians. I never, at any point, said that I used Finnish sources, because, unlike you I understand that my country's estimations could be biased. So I searched it up on english wikipedia.
Don't use Soviet or Finnish sources for this. Soviet lied the numbers (even in their archives) for imago reasons, and Finns didn't have probably the means to count all the dead at the time. So use external sources, please.
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters dude just think how any sources except finish for finn side or soviet for soviet side may have any numbers of casualties of war if no one except finn and soviet sides participated in war? how any sources may ever count casualties? from above from space sattelites? but no sattelites in that time. so any sources may either imagine or use the first hand documents (field officer reports) of both sides. so no relable sources except finn and soviet reports for each side of cause.
kolja2003 5 months ago
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@kolja2003 Check it up if you like. Like, from other than Finnish or Russian historians. I never, at any point, said that I used Finnish sources, because, unlike you I understand that my country's estimations could be biased. So I searched it up on english wikipedia.
Don't use Soviet or Finnish sources for this. Soviet lied the numbers (even in their archives) for imago reasons, and Finns didn't have probably the means to count all the dead at the time. So use external sources, please.
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@kolja2003 And besides, if NIKITA FUCKING KRUCHEV THE SOVIET PRESIDENT said that 1,5 men were lost either MIA or KIA on Finnish Front, doesn't that sound even higher than Finnish numbers?
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters when khruschev said that? give the ref plz.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003
"According to Nikita Khrushchev, 1.5 million men were sent to Finland and one million of them were killed, while 1,000 aircraft, 2,300 tanks and armored cars and an enormous amount of other war materials were lost.[17][18] Finland's losses were limited to 25,904 dead or missing[19] and 43,557 wounded"
as said in wikipedia under "Aftermath of the Winter War". So sorry, it wasn't 1,5 million dead soviets but 1 million - according to Khrushchev, that is. I stick with Finnish estimates
OnlyLifeMatters 5 months ago
@OnlyLifeMatters dude those refs 17,18 are not to khruschev' but to some western guys: maddock and mosier. that is what i'm talking about. some western guys never allowed to the real first hand military field reports how they ever may know anything about casualties? use your brains:) it is just coldwar propaganda. and i red hruschev book on russian. he told about "1 mln lost" but he meant the civilian population of leningrad lost to hunger during blockade caused by finns and hitlerites.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003 It's a well-known quote. Google it.
FFulmenTheFinnish 5 months ago
@FFulmenTheFinnish so i red khruschev book. he tells that 2 finish wars costed many men "maybe a million" but becausr at GP war finns hit from rear and blocked town leningrad together with hitlerites. so hunger of leningrad population caused by finns costed many men. it is true. but he said nothing concerning military actions except some rumors. he wasn't military man so he knew less. better to read the reminisenses of merestkov who was supreme field commander of red army on winter war.
kolja2003 5 months ago
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FFulmenTheFinnish 5 months ago
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FFulmenTheFinnish 5 months ago
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FFulmenTheFinnish 5 months ago
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@kolja2003 Now you're confusing the Winter War (1939-40) with a different war, the Continuation War (1941-44). What he said wasn't about the Continuation War, but the Winter War, where Finland was alone against Russia. In the Continuation War Finland received aid from Germany but was not a part of the Axis and did NOT take part of the siege on Leningrad in any way. Finland simply retook her part of the Isthmus back.
FFulmenTheFinnish 5 months ago
@kolja2003 "propaganda"
To some facts seem to be propaganda, and propaganda facts. Unfortunately, you fall into the latter category. Now, at this time and age it is inexcusable. Rubels pay-packet in the picture...?
obuBBubo 5 months ago
Meaning: weakening southern army for strengthening north could've spelled disaster in the south.
Also, Stalin COULDN'T not have done it; because it was in him to get to Berlin first (man ALWAYS does that which is topmost in his heart).
As for asserting Russians' sitting down to the negotiation table to be a "proof" that there was no plan to occupy all of the land; is like saying that FAILURE to conquer a mountain peak is the proof that the climber never intended to reach the mountaintop.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
Finnish scum
TheYellowbellyfins 5 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins Your name, is that a tunafish?
jerrygreg2 5 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins is a LIE, and a LIAR
obuBBubo 5 months ago
The Finnish people are cowardly Dogs
TheYellowbellyfins 5 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins is a LIE!; and hence, a LIAR!
obuBBubo 5 months ago
But in 44 was payback time. In 44 Finland decided to sell out its ally and change side. The roar of Russians artillery made them to forget about national socialism
steelhelex 6 months ago
@steelhelex "But in 44 was payback time." Payback for what!? Getting back your own land, and the second biggest city of the nation, and returning some 1/2 million exiles back to their own homes, and paying bank-robbers the costs of their bank-robbing in 1939.
However, one day, Russia will pay for all the CRIMES it has committed, CRIMES the past and current generation so expediently tries to white-wash. Well, try as you may, the blood of the innocent still cries out for the justice.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo as to justice you are right. The war criminals of Finland evaded justice and The Nuremberg Trials.
steelhelex 5 months ago
@steelhelex What war criminals....? Remember, the provoked walk free. It's called a self-defence. Law makes that pretty clear. So, there're only one set of criminals as far as Finns and Russians are concerned.
Btw, your "roaring artillery" was brought to halt at Tali Ihantala Ilomantsi, and Stalin's surrender offer rejected. So much for your twisted knowledge of history. "After the defeat of our army, in 1944, Stalin lost his nerve" (Khrushchev).
Whimper, not a roar. Whimper.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@steelhelex "Finland decided to sell out its ally and change side" Yeah, right. It says, "Stalin toasted Hitler" and "repeatedly toasted the pact (invasion, sic) and the German people. That was in August 1939!! There's a true alliance - done WILLINGLY, and under NO duresses - unlike the weapons-getting by the Finns from Germany to fight against Russians who always had the mind to try again to occupy all of Finland. Particularly, after their miserable fiasco of 1939.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was a non-aggression pact there was no alliance
steelhelex 5 months ago
@steelhelex Rubbish! In 1989 (and onwards) Soviet secrets were revealed for world to know. Stalinists can say what they want, makes no difference to facts.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo Germany and The USSR just drafted the spheres of interests. And I could not understand why could France and England share Checoslovakia with Germany. Why did not Germany and The USSR draft the spheres of interests?
steelhelex 5 months ago
@steelhelex Did French and British troops occupy foreign countries together with Nazis? Russians did. Did they have parades with Nazis in Praque? Russians were parading side by side with Nazis in Warsaw. Also, Nazi and Soviet propaganda machines kept busy in lying to populaces how the "SSoviet and Nazzi armies were fighting the terrible Polish Fascists" (together that is).
There's a distinct difference that does not go away whatever is said by whomever wherever, or whenever. Period.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo French and England managed to occupy foreign countries without hitler. They had numerous colonies abroad. As to Poland they shared Checoslovakia with hitler seized Cieszyn Silesia to say nothing about our occupied parts of Ukraine and Belarussia. They took advantage of our civil war and seized some lands in 20s.
steelhelex 5 months ago
@obuBBubo soviet paraded with nazi in warsaw? hahaha:) go learn history:)
kolja2003 5 months ago
@steelhelex What war criminals....? Remember, the provoked walk free. It's called a self-defence. Law makes that pretty clear. So, there're only one set of criminals as far as Finns and Russians are concerned.
Btw, your "roaring artillery" was brought to halt at Tali Ihantala Ilomantsi, and Stalin's surrender offer rejected. So much for your twisted knowledge of history. "After the defeat of our army, in 1944, Stalin lost his nerve" (Khrushchev).
Whimper, not a roar. Whimper.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo To think that you could stop our army in 44 ridiculous. The most interesting thing is why your negotiators ran in Moscow as though their pants was in fire?
steelhelex 5 months ago
@steelhelex "To think that you could stop our army in 44 is ridiculous." It is most ridiculous indeed. I agree. But it is a FACT. The Red Army was STOPPED at Tali/Ihantala/Ilomantsi, and couldn't get further. History tells us so. And so do Molotov and Chrushchev.
As to running; on the contrary, the Finns refused Stalin's demand to surrender and kept fighting (and soften him even more, lol).
Another ridiculous victory is shown by this video.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo As to VKT-line though the Finish Army managed to stop the Red Army offensive it was a matter of time to be defeated and the peace treatment is one more proof that there was no intension to occupy Finland.
steelhelex 5 months ago
@steelhelex Actually, you're wrong. Troops allotted to northern war-theatre FAILED to reach their objectives - that of a total occupation of Finland. There were no further forces available for the campaign to continue. Red Army was stuck. Period. Had re-enforcement been brought from the south; who knows what would've happened. Secondly, as Khrushchev said, "Stalin lost his nerve", (his ambition to occupy Finland); consequently, he pulled much of the northern army out to get to Berlin first.
obuBBubo 5 months ago
@obuBBubo there were not plans to occupy whole finland. stalin just wanted to redraw border away from leningrad.
kolja2003 5 months ago
@kolja2003
Bullshit. Stalin claimed that he only wanted to move the border, but he and the russian military commanders did the plans of conguering finland, they calculated that it would take two weeks when russians march in Helsinki but what did happen? 105 days hard fighting and Russains got very heavy casualties.
Russians used Mass, tehy hadnt tactics. Finss didnt have so much manpower/technology so they used their heads and tactics, and it worked.
Dont insult anymore finnis war veterans.!!
Vankari 5 months ago
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steelhelex 6 months ago
Yeah, like events in Moscow this week. It all looked so "democratic" indeed. Just like good old Stalin days. Oh well, what do you expect when the majority of Russians are idolizing a member of Hell's Angels riding a three-wheeler into a hazy dope cloud to demonstrate his "toughness". Another Stalin in making.
Don't cry for me Argentina (Russia).
obuBBubo 6 months ago
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The Finns cowardly dogs
TheYellowbellyfins 7 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins NOT so. The world called them "heroic". Secondly, our words tell much about us. You're no exception to the rule. Thirdly:
"By definition, any and every wrong action finds itself in a defeated position, and thus rendering every WRONGDOER a loser"
Stalin/Russians were losers. And so are you. Hence: a loser wakes up in the morning, looks in a mirror, shoves in the cornflakes, sits in front of his comp and continues on with his flaming /WRONGDOING. How does it feel?
obuBBubo 7 months ago
@TheYellowbellyfins When you grow old enough to go to school, you should read some history. Stalin`s losses in the winter war were one of the major reasons Hitler attacked russians in 1941. He thought they were weak. Which they weren`t. So Hitler lost. So without us you would propably speak german now. Remember that when calling finns cowardly dogs and nazis
olvimann 6 months ago
Quote: "In July (1989, sic), on the eve of the anniversary of the signing of the Nazi-Soviet Pact, it was formally revealed that the treaty did indeed include a plan for the annexation of the Baltic countries into the USSR (as happened in 1940) and the division of Poland between the two countries. The unsavory past was exposed and gave impetus to the peoples of the Baltic countries who could now even more legitimately claim that they were subject to oppression."
obuBBubo 7 months ago
only thing i ever want to be is in the afghanistan
jiiffi 7 months ago
i know that u didnrt learn that much figting in the 2nd world warld, I am just so proud what our grandfathers did for us... i know its hard for u to u imagine but our fathers saved our world
jiiffi 7 months ago
Er..a title error down under; real thing:
"Falsifiers of History" is a book published by the Soviet Information Bureau, edited and partially re-written by Joseph Stalin, in response to documents made public in January 1948 regarding German–Soviet relations before and after the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact."
"Stalin's account in Falsifiers was repeated in Soviet historical texts until the Soviet Union's dissolution"
Nation was brain-washed with lies that long; no wonder then they all sound the same.
obuBBubo 7 months ago
@obuBBubo You see, Germans helped you Finns to get back the stolen horses and you fought against Germans in 1944 for the interests of the thief.
You are such prostitutes, you Finns, it's incredible!
The bolsheviks' genocide was horrible and their main victim were Russians - the blood of this genocide is on the hands of Finns, too.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@Heightofhate It says that "Stalin toasted Hitler...., and that he, "repeatedly toasted the pact (invasion), and the German People". And that when the two occupation armies of INDEPENDENT NATIONS of Europe met in Poland: "they WARMLY greeted each other."
So there you individual with a selected hearing. Truth is a funny thing - nothing you can do against it.
obuBBubo 7 months ago
@obuBBubo What does "toasting HItler" and "toasting the pact" mean?
Could you put it less childish?
I can clearly see you can do nothing against the truth - that's why you're having a cow.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@Heightofhate Ok. Picture this: Molotov and Ribbentrop are sitting down with that Georgian Jew standing on the background. Smiling. After the signatures are done. Stalin pulls out this Vodka bottle and raises his glass and says "To Hitler!!" All around respond: "To Hitler". Then he warms up and REPEATEDLY begins "toasting the pact (invasion) and the German people".
He was on a roll and well lubricated; it was a high noon in Moscow; when Nazis and Russians toasted each other.
obuBBubo 7 months ago
@obuBBubo And I went to St.Petersburg and met old Finns there who said they found it disgusting that during the Russian Civil War Finns in Finland didn't give a damn for fighting bolsheviks beyond the Finnish border and forgot about the Finns living elsewhere in Russia and that it was a chauvinistic crime by the newborn Finland.
That's what they said.
After the UK's, France's and Poland's pact with Hitler on his occupation of Czechoslovakia was signed in 1938 Stalin was glad to have one, too.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
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@Heightofhate "After the UK's, France's and Poland's pact with Hitler on his occupation of Czechoslovakia was signed in 1938 Stalin was glad to have one, too."
- NO western troops crossed into neighbouring countries as Russians and Nazis did. There's a HUGE difference between the two; between an appeasement and a common aggression.
obuBBubo 7 months ago
@obuBBubo No, I'm not speaking of Finns who acted like lousy bankrobbers in 1917, I'm speaking of a unique military victory of the Red Army who broke through the Mannerheim Line in Arctic Winter.
I know no similar battles and victories, especially with weapons of the 30s.
Where victory is, there is glory.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@Heightofhate Wow! you've been busy in hiding the truth, and lying your head off. Oh well; you have your job to do; guess you have to...What if you went to them bosses and say that you can't do it any longer, and that you'd prefer a forum that deals with disgruntled shoppers or something....
Hmm...there is NO GLORY!! for a monster (150+ million) to be humiliated by a neighbour's ten year old boy. Btw, how's your nose...; still hurting...?
obuBBubo 7 months ago
@obuBBubo I can't be hiding the truth - you are the only possessor of it,so you keep it
You did your job before writing me countless messages - I am a polite person so I couldn't leave them unreplied
You were so busy you even interferred into my correspondence with other people to comment on it - you must be addicted to commenting,poor boy
You're sooo Georgian - they also say that they are small and fought against 142 mln
Were all of those 150 millions on the front or just a half of them? ))
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@Heightofhate "You're sooo Georgian - they also say that they are small and fought against 142 mln"
- Repeat: Russia COULD'VE EASILY overrun Georgia, if it wanted to. But NOT SO with Finland. Red Army WAS STOPPED at Tali/Ihantala/Ilomantsi (and elsewhere). Period. There were no re-enforcements available from the south; so, the only option Stalin had was to drop the unconditional surrender demand, and sit down at the table and begin negotiating.
obuBBubo 7 months ago
@obuBBubo The Red Army was very often stopped by Germans too - but the war ended with Germany still being overrun by the Red Army.
Stalin was in no hurry for Finland's occupation had he wanted it. He could have easily left Finland for 1945 just like he left Manchuria and Japan.
That's why those were Finns who first asked for negotiations and Stalin's ultimatum to start fight Germans was well fullfilled by Finns - they followed Stalin's orders fighting those who had been on their side for years
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@Heightofhate "The Red Army was very often stopped by Germans too"
- Red Army ground to halt and COULDN'T go further. Also, Berlin was waiting; to use northern forces, he HAD to have peace negotiations in place. Had he pulled them out; Finn's counter attack would've been very much in the cards.
No. Stalin COULN'T have waited. Man MUST do, and CANNOT BUT do except that which is topmost in his heart. Stalin had Berlin in his. He had no choice on the matter per se.
obuBBubo 7 months ago
@obuBBubo Are all well-populated countries "monsters" for you?
You know, dwarves are monsters, too, although smaller ones.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@Heightofhate Moreover, when the west, after the war, started questioning Stalin's occupations; he CO-EDITED a book "Falsification of History" , and came up with these fairy tales about "buffer zones" and stuff. His lies became a text-book which brain-washed yous Russians; and therefore you speak with one voice.
With one exception: going back a few months there was a Russian; who openly apologised for Russia's wrongs and signed it (put his full name under the post).
obuBBubo 7 months ago
@obuBBubo What is "the west"? Germany and Italy fighting England and the USA or the USA and England bombing Germany and Italy to ashes?
Stalin co-edited a book "Falsification of History"? Wow, I didn't know Stalin did some editing. Show us the link to this book, please, I couldn't find on the Net, neither in Russian nor in English.
Did Stalin publish it "in the west" to gain the public opinion for him? ))
Did his books brainwash only the ethnic Russians? What did happen to the others in USSR?
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo As you can see, I've never read this book and I'm even trying to find it but I cannot
Moreover, under Khrushov whom you love so much all Stalin's book, including the co-edited ones, were banned and nowhere for sale, thus, they couldn't have any influence at all, especially on the generations born in the 60s and on
A Russian who apoligized? I know, Russians are fogiving and, as traditional Christians, think that to assume someone others sins and ask the enemies for forgiveness is good
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@Heightofhate "A Russian who apoligized? I know, Russians are fogiving and, as traditional Christians, think that to assume someone others sins and ask the enemies for forgiveness is good"
- I don't believe you can be this twisted! He apologised for MURDERS, widows, orphans, suffering, stealing and for all the ills YOU Russians brought on innocent and peace-loving people.
And here YOU Hate, continue beating those whom that bastard Stalin and co so badly wounded. Repeat: Siberia IS big enough.
obuBBubo 7 months ago
@obuBBubo Of course, my dear, deep inside me I think the way you do - as anyone else around, we all think like you - but I'm such a bad guy I'm trying to hide it and I'm lying to deceive nice people - just because I'm so evil.
You must be some Harry Potter fan.
"Somehow", I couldn't find any Stalin's aproval of Finland's occupation in July 1939.
What is "invasion pact with Nazis"? The history knows no such name.
What occupation did fail?
Stalin has never asked Hitler for anything.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo There were no Soviet troops "allotted" to the North - they have always been there
About the Soviet offensive of 1944: "During the height of the offensive in June 1944 Finns asked for negotiations"
In Aug 44 Finnish commanders said their armed forces could last for not more than 3 months
Soviets could have eaisly blocked Finland, conquered Germany, taken Berlin, and then come back just like they did it with Japan and beat shit out of Finland, but Soviets simply showed understanding.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo Are you really that stupid that you compare your single walk with a movement of a whole army with all its ammo, trucks, wounded, kitchens, materials, dispersed soldiers etc?
Moving even a modern army at a distance of 100 km is a huge and an extremely complicated task.
To move an army under enemy fire through thick woods is 10 times harder.
Of course, the Soviet war machine was "stopped" - after it had made 100 km and gained huge territories which are still Russian and will stay so.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo On 1st Nov 1939 there were 425,640 Soviet servicemen on the front.The overall number of Soviet servicemen on the front: 760,578. The number of soldiers in Leningrad Military District during the war: 998,100
No 1,5 mln Soviet soldiers
The Soviet documents show the name of each Pole executed at Katyn - and were the base for the researchers
I don't know if there were documents on Mainila at all
There are no documents saying Finns started the war
What was that with the Forest Brothers?
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo Soviet government never talked of the Mannerheim Line breakthrough with its population - never at all. Thus,there were no lies told
Do you really think the Soviet military plans for the Finland campaign had a part concerning Romania? Are you crazy or something?
For each operation there is a separate plan
There were no plans about Romania in the Soviet armies which went against Finland
International pressure is a strong force,indeed.
The tales of Finnish Army of 1944 are also funny.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo Not "brains" would have withdrawn, but cowards like you are.
It's easy of talking about the "crazy overconfident tactics" of the Red Army but there are 2 stubborn facts against it:
No other army has ever stormed anything similar.
The Finnish army has never stormed any similar defence line
That is why saying someone did it wrong while you've never done anything of it - that is what the real stupidity is
Mannerheim found the Soviet breakthrough was flexible and smart - no "en masse"
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo Finns were surprised at the stupidity of Russians?
And Ukrainians,Belorussians, Germans,Caucasians,Kazakhs surprised Finns with their smartness,right?
When you see soldiers storming a strong position you should call it bravery and not stupidity,especially if they take this position and raise their flag over it
Who are "numbers men"?Some little people living in your head?
Lives of all Soviet soldiers were equal for their commanders
Untrained idiots? Finns were surely trained idiots
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo You stayed home and kept warm when Russians were fighting bolsheviks - you should have helped not to complain later
Were those hoods your friends?Did they call you to tell you their ideas?
Maginot Line was much more strong than Mannerheim Line but it was also surrounded by a far better landscape than in Finland and enjoyed a better weather all year round.
But the most important thing - Soviets were the only army to storm such a line. It was a unique acheivement in military history.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo I see Khrushov is a sort of oracle for you, you love citing him so much: "Khrushov said this, Khrushov said that..."
Once again - where is the source showing Khrushov saying it?
Anyway, Khrushov might have said any hogwash,the FACT is that a shabby and unruly Finnish mob of 422,000 moved their asses to a smaller Finland and the Finnish Army, after a good bashing, was humiliated by giving up its positions
Russians parades are the order itself: no out of step marching, no broken lines.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo Where have you found execuses in my words?There is none
But you have execuses for your defeat like "we stayed independent" or "Soviets didn't take Helsinki"
Even if a few Finland's northern provinces were left unoccupied you'd have said: "We're still independent, look, we won the war!"
After the Winter War Finns lost: 11% of their land,30% of the pre-war Finland's economic assets,the 2nd biggest city, 422,000 Finns lost their property
Finland was defeated, pal, let go and move on.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo Uh... what weed do you smoke once again?
How some tracks on American forums playing ethnic things could give you grounds for assessment of the military power of Finnish and Soviet soldiers?
Or do you mean only ethnic Russian soldiers among Soviet soldiers?
What is this bullshit?
And I'm curious to know judging by what you find that Finnish soldiers were better? Better in what?
And where did Finns take the fighting experience from? How could it big bigger than the Soviets had?
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo At the Battle of Raata Road, the 44th Ukrainian Division did not have the officila number of soldiers - 13,962 men (once again, where did you take your 23,000 from?)
The division was understaffed - 2 battalions of its 305th Infantry Regiment were deployed elsewhere.
After the Battle the Division had 9,288.
Stavka set up a SECRET commission in Jan 1940 to investigate the casualties. The Commission reported 4,674 total casualties, where 1,001 dead, 1,430 wounded and 2,243 missing.
Heightofhate 7 months ago
@obuBBubo What is this "source above"?
In the Battle of Raate Road (the word "road" alone shows the guerilla tactics and the pictures prove it even more) the 44th UKRAINIAN Division of the USSR (Russians again?) lost 7,000 - 9,000 KIA and MIA - it is a Finnish estimation, not Russian!
Where did you take you 23,000 bullshit from? Out of your head, definitely.
Everyone who contradicts you becomes a turn-coat,