Is the Bible Culturally Conditioned?

[SuperOliba]

How can Tim Keller try to back up Christianity with logic and rationality when the book of his religion is so fucked up?

[zsifk]

@SuperOliba What is so "@#$%^ up" about the bible?

[baeseokil]

Isn't there parts of the bible that were culturally conditioned such as some of the cultural references in the old testament. For example, at that time it was culturally acceptable to have concubines. Not to say the old testament is irrelevant. I feel that it is important to know that there is a cultural context. I do agree with Tim Keller that there is a common core, and that common core is Jesus. If Jesus is God then what he speaks can't be culturally conditioned for knows objective truth.

[OutoftheClosetTV]

Are people who pray on street corners hypocrites? "Pray in private, Matthew 5:5-6 And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

[oldescheper]

There is a fact that supports mr. Keller statements. The gospel of Jesus Christ, is in different ways offensive to every culture! It does not fit a man made world view.

[Lono1981]

driubi, you ignore a foundational Christian belief that the Bible is written by God through men.

[aditzzaaa]

@Lono1981 and you know this from the bible. bible-god-bible-god-bible-god ... circular reasoning forever.

[driubi]

... if people are culturally conditioned, and the bible was written by people - than the bible is culturally conditioned.

[jbforgy1]

If the Bible was written by people, it would be only a book...but many of us believe it is much more: the Word of God. I agree with Tim.

[driubi]

If the Bible was indeed written by God, I'll have to admit - god isn't such a great writer. Not only are there myriads of human philosophers that write more eloquently than him/her/it, and their ability to avoid contradicting themselves is significantly better.

[1234989ful]

@driubi The Bible was written by men, using the style and grammar of men who lived thousands of years ago. It was inspired of God, and He communicates exactly what He wants to. I know it is fashionable to say that the Bible is full of contradictions, but critics of the Bible have to read the Biblical narrative in its' entirety to grasp the story. They may fundamentally disagree in the end, but you can't say that it's a contradictory book.

[BrooklynRagtag]

@1234989ful The Bible does contradict itself. There are multiple passages that are in direct disagreement. For instance, what were Jesus' last words? There are several different accounts of his last words and they aren't close. What about Joseph's father's name? Was it Heli or Jacob?

There are countless others. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I regularly get the impression that most Christians don't actually read the Bible.

[1234989ful]

@BrooklynRagtag Those are surface contradictions. In the gospel of Luke, Heli is listed as Joseph's father. Heli had 2 daughters, one of which was Mary. When Joseph married Mary, he legally became the son of Heli, by Jewish law. The gospel of Matthew focuses on Joseph's family lineage, Jacob being Joseph's biological father. As for Jesus last words, it must be understood that there was no such thing in that time as 'unbiased' writing. The authors of the gospels wrote to convey (to be cont..)

[1234989ful]

@BrooklynRagtag ...a particular point of view. So while in the gospels different things may be written for the last thing out of Jesus' mouth, the context must be examined. In Matthew, Jesus ascension isn't mentioned, so it doesn't claim to be the last words out of his mouth. In Mark, he gives thegreat commission, then ascends into heaven. In Luke, he 'blesses' them (last comments not included) and the he rises. In John, the ascension is not mentioned. These gospels do not cancel one another out

[BrooklynRagtag]

@1234989ful I gratefully accept the correction on the issue Joseph's father's name. I've heard the explanation for Jesus' last words before and I find that your point illustrates my point. The question is, what sort of book would a god produce. Does the Bible fit that description? If the Bible were divinely inspired, I would argue it would be timeless and flawless. I would argue that the Bible is not those things if it has to be understood in a historical context.

[1234989ful]

@BrooklynRagtag The Bible is timeless (applying to all generations) and flawless (inerrant). It was written by men, to other men, but inspired OF the Holy Spirit. It is not necessary to know the context of Jesus' time, or Israel's history, in order to know andlove Jesus. But when it comesto Biblical criticism, which is only done in educated countries, it is necessary to remember that since it was writen by men to men, every text will have a 1) cultural meaning and 2) supercultural meaning.

[1234989ful]

@BrooklynRagtag Ex: Paul writing to the church in Corinth about women wearing hats in church. He does not root what he is saying in the created order, but rather speaks to cultural norms. Today women don't wear hats in church because it wouldn't mean a thing. A supercultural meaning of a text would be of husbands being the head of the home, just as ADAM comes first before EVE, something birthed in the created order, not in tradition. But none of that is necessary for salvation!Christ alone! Amen

[BrooklynRagtag]

@1234989ful What is the super-cultural meaning of Exdodus 21:20 (the passage about beating slaves)? I've heard Christians justify this in two ways. They discount it because it's old testament and they say that slavery had a different meaning in that time. Neither of these explanations hold up. If the god of the old testament and the god of the new testament are different, this would prove my point. If we can only understand it culturally in its own time, this would also prove my point.

[1234989ful]

@BrooklynRagtag What do you mean by justify? What needs to be justified? In the history of Israel, you could sell yourself into slavery, and make yourself the property of someone else. The downside is that you are not your own anymore, the upside is that you are housed and fed. God did not encourage it, he regulated excessive cruelty, and made a way for slaves to be automatically freed after a certain time, or choose to return to their masters. God did the same with divorce. Though He intended

[BrooklynRagtag]

@1234989ful "What needs to be justified?"

Firstly, it is disingenuous to imply that indentured servitude is the only form of slavery in the Bible. The Jews themselves were told to take slaves from tribes they conquered and from foreigners living among them. These were NOT indentured servants.

More importantly, the idea that you are allowed to beat an indentured servant with a rod, as long as can survive for "a day or two" after, still needs justification. It's a morally repugnant idea.

[1234989ful]

@BrooklynRagtag Where in the Bible did God command Israel to take slaves? God often told them to wipe out the nations they went to war against, sparing no men, women or children. Regarding slavery, like I was saying, God REGULATED it rather than enforced it. In Deuteronomy 23:15 He makes a law that if a slave should escape his owner and take refuge with you, that you should NOT take him back to his master, but rather let him take refuge with you. Jeremiah 34:15-17 God blasts Israel for not

[1234989ful]

@BrooklynRagtag ...setting their slaves free. The reason I askwhy physical beating in indentured servitude needs any justification, is because Iwonder by what standard of morality you are condemning this practice. Is it by the Geneva convention? The Enlightenment?The Bible? Conscience? Jesus calls us to lay down our lives for our brothers, to love our enemies, to forgive those who sin against us. No doubt you squirm when you think about slavery (as do I), but I ask you to think about why this is

[BrooklynRagtag]

@1234989ful "by what standard of morality [am I] condemning this practice[?]"

By my own.

I have experiences. I have role models for virtuous behavior. I have access to writings of great moral thinkers of the past and present. Also, like most other humans, I'm hard-wired for empathy.

If you squirm when you read Exodus 21:20, and I hope you do, then you aren't getting your morals from the god of the Bible either. By my own moral standard, beating a slave is a wicked act.

[1234989ful]

@BrooklynRagtag ...marriage to be for a lifetime, He allowed for divorce due to the 'hardness of their hearts' (Matthew 19:8). And no, the God of the Old Testament is no different than Jesus. Jesus was not soft on the law, if anything He intensified it, saying 'You have heard it said this....But I say to you (insert stricter interpretation)' for the sake of the world knowing they cannot follow the law perfectly, therefore no one can be perfect, they need the righteousness of Christ!

[Johnkim510]

i was hoping he could explain how we approach and view the old testament and the brutality that God endorses at that time period.

[gleyrodil]

your all idiots im done trying to promote rational thought to you if you.

[JURGENELL]

WE ARE ALL ALIENS

[raneroc]

He's right;My people are a marginalized class, so when i read about Jesus I see a liberater who can free me from sin and oppression. And loves me even though society see's a barbarian or criminal. And i think my theological framework is probably closer to the truth...