I welcome anyone to message me, I will give you my cell phone number and we will have a debate in the Bible, not opinion. I Know for a fact that their is no rapture of the Church only. There will be a Harvest though.
if you read about the one taken and the one left the disciples in luke 17:37 ask him where Lord as in where are they taken and he says " where the body is, there the eagle will gather. He is clearly talking about the Supper of the Great God in Revelation 19:17, so based on that you wouln't want to be taken. When he says he didn't appoint us to suffer wrath he means that if we have the seal of God, much like the children of Isreal in Egypt having the blood over the doors, we will not be killed.
For those of you who don't know the difference between a Reward or a Sharp Sword - Rewards is what Jesus gives you at the Judgment Seat of Christ. A Sharp Sword is what Jesus bring WITH Him at His 2nd Coming to KILL His enemies. No Crowns - Just slaughter of the wicked. After Jesus throws the Antichrist & False Prophet into the Lake of Fire, He will then Resurrect the Christians who died during the GT. They NEVER meet Christ in the air - they are NEVER Raptured. Read Revelation 19 & 20
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto THY servants the PROPHETS, and to the SAINTS, and THEM that FEAR thy NAME, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Judging and rewards are happening at basically the same time here. The wicked are being judged, while the servants of the Lord are being
rewarded...what is so hard about that verse? Why do you cover your eyes when it gets to the reward part? It is pretty clear here as well as other passages of scripture, that he is coming both with rewards and with judgment.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Show us that verse that says Christ resurrects the Christians who died during the great trib and show us how if he raises them up on the last day(John 6:39-40) they are not "raptured"(caught up) and be sure and point out those verses.
Jesus says He's coming and His Reward will be WITH Him. Revelation 22:11. Receiving our Crowns: 2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4; Revelation 2:10 - How do you think the 24 elders got their Crowns? 12 of the Elders are the Apostles: Matthew 19:28 - The other 12 Elders are Prophets of Israel. I suggest you quit watching & listening to misleading, misguided, off-the-wall people who DON'T read the Bible. They are being deceitful and are leading MANY astray. Just READ the Bible - It's ALL in there.
@Myhopeisinhim The 7th Trumpet is blown by an ANGEL - it is a Trumpet of JUDGMENT = Revelation 8:6 & 11:15 - Judgment: 11:19 - an earthquake & SEVER. hailstorm. The Trump of God/Trumpet Call of God/The Last Trumpet IS JESUS' Voice: Revelation 1:10-11 & 4:1. It sounds like you have quite a few years of studying to do.
Hey there:) I'm going to show you a small passage, and you can accept it or deny what it says, it's your choice:
Rev 11:15-18 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto THY servants the PROPHETS, and to the SAINTS, and THEM that FEAR thy NAME, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
SO yes, while it is also a time of judgment upon his return when the seventh angel sounds...it is also a time of him rewarding his prophets, saints, and all those who fear his name.
This verse calls you out, Jesusholdmyhand1, and tells you bluntly that it is a time of reward as well. How can you deny what it says?
@Myhopeisinhim "LOUD VOICES IN HEAVEN" IN Revelation 11:15-18 - Yes, we ARE in Heaven Praising the Lord. Just like in Revelation 7:10, 12, 15; 15:3; 16:7; 19:1-10. Who do you think is the GREAT MULTITUDE? We are RAPTURED as shown in Revelation 4:1; just as the 2 Witnesses are in Revelation 11 AFTER they are murdered. "Come up here" .. does that sound familiar? Do you KNOW What Raptured means???? The ascending to Jesus. We GO to Him. John 14:1-3 Better study more.
its also possible that some of the nation of israel enter in in mortal bodies...maybe they don't truly accept him until they see him.
There are many possibilities at this point..but even though we aren't 100% sure doesn't take away the possibility of a post trib rapture, especially given there is a resurrection of the dead in christ here and the dead are supposed to rise first.
the bible teaches that there will be some left of the nations which went against israel..its possible that only those in the armies situated in the valley of megiddo are killed at this point...
He speaks of these nations going up to jerusalem to worship every year and if they refuse he'll cause it not to rain,..doesn't sound like saved believers here.
jesus himself said he was coming and his reward was with him. Don't forget those who died in christ during the trib are resurrected here to live and reign with christ..thus you can't say hes not coming with reward.
@Myhopeisinhim He comes with NO rewards. The Great Tribulation Saints that are "resurrected" get ROBES: Revelation 7:14-17. The greatest reward that they'll receive is the "resurrection", going into the Kingdom and serving God for Eternity. That in itself is wonderful - however; most MISSED the opportunity - which is NOW - to Accept the Loving Forgiveness of Jesus Christ & REPENT - they reject Him, say it's stupid, a fairy tale. Some of them are NEW Converts, but NOT all.
Umm, the tribulation saints not only get resurrected...they ALSO LIVE AND REIGN with Christ for 1000 years...why do you try and knock them down? I don't get why you look down on them and somehow look at yourself in a more prideful light.
They find salvation in christ and live and reign with him, like you do..their deaths glorify god, just as peter's did and all the early church saints because they did not love their lives unto death
Remember the words of Christ: Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Why do you think Christ will spare you what he didn't spare the early church from? picking up the cross is a part of who you are as a christian..he has never told you that he'd rapture you out before the trib...no where no how...show me one verse that is as blunt as the gathering in Matthew 24...can you do it? nope.
Do you know how I know? cause I tried and there is simply no verse that states you'll be gathered before. In fact, the bible declares the rapture to be on the day of the Lord...and the bible shows that to be at the end of the tribulation.
It may not be a pleasant message, but it's the truth.
@Myhopeisinhim They NEVER "meet Christ in the air". They MISSED the Rapture. Do you know that we JUDGE the Fallen Angels? 1Corinthians 6:2-3 .. Here we come! Jude 1:14-16. We RECEIVE Crowns and Kingdom Assignments at the Rapture. We WATCH the Coronation of Christ. He will receive MANY Crowns. In Rev. 5:6 He has NO Crowns - But in Revelation 19:11-12 He's WEARING many Crowns. You're going to miss that Beautiful, Majestic, Glorious event plus MORE. Read Mattthew 25:1-13
Umm, the bible says that the dead in christ will rise first on the day of the Lord, which occurs after the sixth seal in the book of revelation....this means that all who have died, including those in the tribulation will God bring with him.
Why do you think otherwise? Besides, the bible also teaches that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord...those who have died are with him already or do you believe like jw's in soul sleep?
Then how come in Rev 7 tribes of Israel are sealed first then the number no man number of all tribes Rev 14:1 :144,000 Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were REDEEMED from AMONG MEN, [being] the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb - and it written they are the firstfruits then how can the church be first?
yet one is never mentioned...A rapture, or gathering, is never mentioned until the end, after the tribulation. No where in scripture does it even mention any type of gathering until the end. No where, as bad as we wish there to be.
Rev 3:10, nor Luke 21:36, prove it because we don't need to be removed from this world to be kept from something. 2 thess 2 doesn't show it, even though we try to change the wording slightly to prove it does.
Anytime the gathering is mentioned, anytime, it is shown to be after. This was hard for me to finally accept because I wanted nothing more than to believe in a pre-trib rapture.
@Myhopeisinhim I don't see a pretrib rapture, I'm not saying I'm right, yet I was wondering how pretibbers explain Rev 20:4 & 5 which is plainly saying that only those who go thru tribulation & are either beheaded or refuse the mark of the beast or worship him, are the one's who rule & reign 1000 yrs & are the 1st resurrection. When 1 Thes 4:17 says, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I believe it all happens at the 2nd coming. After satans rule, Christ returns. PeaceB2Ya
@JimmyCarol100 If you think that the Rapture is at the 2nd Coming, then who walks into the Kingdom alive? All Believers would be Raptured - All of Christ's enemies are killed, then who's alive to follow Satan in Revelation 20:7-10? At the Rapture we receive our Crowns: 2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4; Revelation 2:10; 22:12. At the 2nd Coming Jesus has NO Rewards, only a Sharp Sword (His Voice) to KILL all those who oppose Him. We come back WITH Jesus: Revelation 17:14; 19:7-21
@hiyosilver100 Angels are gathering saints from the four corners of HEAVEN & EARTH Mk.13: 27, because the saints that endure til the END, will be caught up in the clouds to be transformed, & so the angels are gathering us all to meet above the Mt. of Olives to touch down together.
1Thess.4:15,16 "we which are alive & REMAIN unto the coming of the Lord...with the voice of the archangel AND trump of God... SHALL BE CAUGHT UP.."
1Cor.15:52,"at the LAST TRUMP..WE SHALL BE CHANGED".
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not....
give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
All these verses indicate a rapture later than what the pre-tribbers wish.
Thus we back up to 1 thess 4, and we notice that it matches with what the Lord says in Matthew 24, after the tribulation of those days shall appear the sign of the son of man, and he will send his angels to gather his elect.
@Myhopeisinhim The "elect" are the Jews! Who will be new believers (along with many Gentiles, of course). Gathered by the Angels after Armeggedon at the END of THE tribulation. The Day of the Lord is also The Time of Jacob's Trouble. NOT the time of the Gentile's or Believer's Trouble. Please do not ignore the numerous OTHER verses that address the Day of the Lord.
While the jews were called the elect, the believers are also called the elect. We read about us being the elect, chosen of God, in Colossians 3. Curious, when do you believe the marriage supper is?
I do not believe that Isaiah 26, the chambers verse, is eluding to a pre-trib rapture, not if you read the context of the prior chapters, and even the one or two chapters after. Initially by itself it looks like it may.
@Myhopeisinhim Fantastic points! It's clear that all these passages obviously connect to the same event. The last trump, saints being caught up with the Lord, the sounding of the seventh Angel, and the day of the Lord, are all the same event.
Mhmm, the only reason they don't see it is because they are taught that it is the pre-trib rapture that is the blessed hope, the fact that they'll be taken out before, rather then the hope being that whether we live or die, he will take us home to be with him and that we who are alive will not precede those who have died.
This is what gave the disciples the strength to die for the Lord, and what will give the tribulation saints the courage...
to walk to the guillotine and give glory to God even unto their last breath. They seem to think that if we're faced with death that we can't find comfort, and how can that be a comforting thought etc.
They are focusing on the when instead of the who and why.
@Myhopeisinhim I believe that there are those who are called to be martyred, but I also believe that sadly, the majority of believers which will be killed, will be those who did not prepare when they should have, especially due to their hope in a pre-tribulation rapture. I believe that parents especially have a duty to protect their children, and should be asking the Lord for wisdom & direction to those divinely protected areas where they can hide themselves and their children. Proverbs 22:3
@Myhopeisinhim In 2 Thess. 2:1-3, the "coming of our Lord" and the "day of the Lord" are grouped with the rapture, or "our being gathered to him", verifying again that these events occur together. Notice that "that day" mentioned in v.3 is a specific day in this cluster of events.
In 2 Thess.1:7-10, "the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven...will punish those who do not know God...on the Day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed."
@shiphrahhopeful The Day that the Lord comes to punish those who do not obey the gospel, and the Day that he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among ALL those that believed, is the Day of the glorious rapture.
@shiphrahhopeful Here, too, you fail to see that "the coming of Our Lord" and the "day of Christ" pertains to the Second Coming which is in different facets.
On the "day of the circus", there may be a parade&then the circus is in town for the week.2 Thess.1:7-10 says nothing to indicate that there is no rapture.To me,this speaks of the final Touchdown on earth when the evil will be punished.To be praised and glorified by the Sts & Blievrs bcause it is over&the 1000 years begins
@Myhopeisinhim You fail to see the similarites between the Harpazo and the Jewish wedding traditions. It was the Jews that were the subject of early teachings. Pls explain who will be at the marriage feast in Heaven, who will be the multitudes to exalt at the throne? Who are the saints hidden in the chamber for the time of the Trib? Who are the souls of the Saints hiding under the altar?
@Myhopeisinhim Picking verses piecemeal is convenient. These verses do nothing to disprove pre-rapture. Many of us see this happening near to the beginning of the Great Tribulation shortly before or shortly after the rapture which kicks off the entrance of the a/c.
1 Thess 4:15 - if you read into verse 5, you will see that the day Paul is talking about, the day of the rapture occurs on the day of the Lord, which occurs at the end of the tribulation. There is no way around this fact. No way around the fact that Paul describes the same events in the same order as Jesus did in Matthew 24, as much as we try to twist and turn 2 thess 2 or 1 thess 4/5.
souls under the altar are those who have been beheaded.
just one last post for now, I promise:). What do you think gives those in the tribulation the strength to die for christ and be beheaded? Its the same hope you have now.
That whether we live or die, he will take us home to be with him upon his glorious return. This gives them the strength as it did for his disciples long ago.
@Myhopeisinhim Something to think about:ALL taken in the rapture(or at the end)WILL be sinners(we all are sinners to1 degree or another,no?On earth,we can never be truly spotless).Previewed&found acceptable by Jesus,we will be taken&forgiven of all sins in a twinkling when we receive the glorified body&taken into Heaven.There are no sinners in Heaven.Taken into Heaven clean with no desire to sin ever again.The 2nd death has no bearing on those raptured as per scripture for reason
i learned though that if taking the word pre off the rapture caused me to lose hope then I was putting more stock in the when then in the who and what was really our hope.
Lets find peace in the fact that whether we live or die we will go to be with him when he returns.
Please know that I do understand your concerns and fears. I once stood where you are now.
I know why you believe it and I believed it for over 20 years. I defended it without fail and without doubt. No one could sway my mind. With this said, I know why you think think believing otherwise would make a person lose hope.
Please know that I understand your concern and fears regarding this. I stood once where you are now so I understand completely.
I know every reason why you believe in pre-trib and I once believed them all too. Without fail and without doubt. I defended it unceasingly for over 20 years.
@Myhopeisinhim If you are talking to me- I have no fears of any of this. I fully believe that I will be found worty to get a ticket on the rapture cloud but if the Good Lord designs to leave me behind, I will deal with that well. For myself and anyone else that I may come in touch with. However, at my age, my hope is that He takes me early.
Truthfully, I think that you defend too much! It is not an issue of salvation. It is not beneficial to belabor the confusion.
You are right:) It's not an issue of salvation, but we have to ensure that we are also prepared for the possibility that a pre-trib may not happen.
Some are not even willing to contemplate the idea saying things like, God won't make me go through it, etc. Those are the things that will cause people to lose hope, lose faith if they do find themselves in the tribulation. What counts is that one keeps the faith no matter what happens.
@Myhopeisinhim I disagree. After 2000 years with no rapture, many experiencing WWI & II, persecution and tribs and countless personal disasters, most still have hope & faith. A few more years and a few more intense tribs is no big deal. Those that will lose hope will be the lukewarm that Jesus will spew.The words most un-pretribbers use to demonize pre-trib rapture believers removes hope from many. Based on no more fact than pre-tribbers use.Read it your way, present your side.
My friend, our hope is that whether we live or die, we will go to be with Christ upon his return.
That no matter what happens now or in the future, we have that hope and not even death can take it away. This is why we should not fear the future, nor what the devil may try to do because of this promise.
as we watch the signs, we wait with anticipation of his return. The Lord gave us signs to watch for which ever more increases our excitement and hope that his return is close.
While mens hearts fail them, believers are renewed because they know what it all means and the conclusion of these matters. Not sure why you think not believing in a pre-trib removes a persons hope.
The hope is as it always was that when Christ returns, he'll take those who believe to be with him forever. That even those who have died will go.
The hope is not when it will happen so believing in a different time-line will not remove that blessed hope which is the glorious appearing of our great God and saviour jesus christ.
@hiyosilver100 Harpazo, which means to be caught up or snatched away, does not refer to a secret escape. Messiah said in Matt 24: 29 " Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn...(con't)
@shiphrahhopeful There is NO secret to the escape. We are told time and again "to escape these things". And the meeting in the clouds is plainly laid b4 us.After the Big 'T'ribulation of those days, when it is ALL over, these things that you indicate will happen. The tribes (alive a/c followers) will mourn as they will then see Jesus' sign in the heavens as He descends to touch the earth. Yes! AFTER all Day of the Lord events - one of the first being the rapture.
The rapture has never been imminent or rather could happen at any moment. The only thing imminent is that your next breathe may be your last and we could stand in his presence at any moment.
The reason I say it was not imminent, especially back then, is because he said what death peter would die. That showed at least that his return wouldh't happen until after that, removing the teaching of imminency.
@Myhopeisinhim Lack of characters, my friend. I was gonna say "rapture or death". Are you always such a perfectionist on points with so little impact?Of course, that early in Christian / church / Believer history, the rapture was not an issue. There are indications that those that died pre- Christ / pre- church will be judged somewhat differently and may be those in the final ressurection.
I would love to believe in a pre-trib rapture as I did for over 20 years, but given what the Lord has shown me in scripture, I find that it isn't as I first thought, as much as I wanted to believe it.
Paul himself states(2 Thess 2), in the same order as Jesus(mat 24), that before the coming and our gathering, the antichrist first had to be revealed. His return at the end of the tribulation occurs like a thief because the wicked aren't expecting it, but us..
we are not in darkness that that day should overtake us like a thief. We have been given signs, and he asks us to watch therefore for these things, and when you see them look up for your redemption draweth nigh.
As much as we want there to be a pre-tri rapture, and trust me, I wanted it as much as you, and believed it as strongly as you, the scriptures just don't support it.
One thing I learned in my journey, is that whether it's big or small, all things matter. There is no such thing as "so little impact". Jesus stated he will send his angels to gather us at his coming. Again we read that the gathering occurs at the last trumpet. Again we read that it occurs after the antichrist is revealed.
Everything reveals that it's not pre-trib, and very bluntly as much to our displeasure.
@Myhopeisinhim Alright- gloves off! The Rapture imminency is ALWAYS there. You stand with few to say it has not. Read through the Bible again keeping ALL in context b4 you make comments that are designed to destroy the hope of new believers with your opinion.
Pay attention! There are TWO trumpets! One commencing the rapture in the clouds of the believers and ONE announcing the return of Jesus to set foot on earth. Read slowly, make notes as to eliminate your confusion.
@Myhopeisinhim And what "the Lord has shown to me in scripture" contradicts what He has shown to you. You confuse the 2 events. The rapture part of the Day of the Lord does come as a thief. IF it came at the end, the timing would be very evident & the watchers would know. The a/c will be apparent shortly b4 the rapture and known after the rapture. Seems you are hung up on certain verses taken out of context. One verse does not negate another. Fit them all together.
since the disciples wouldn't live to see the tribulation upon this earth why were they told that they would be saved from the wrath to come and obtain salvation in christ? Wouldn't that be a moot point considering it wouldn't happen for 2000+ years?
These aren't trick questions. They are to purposely get people thinking about their understanding of things and whether or not they can really apply in that way.
@Myhopeisinhim Then - as now - if ppl lived in a righteous manner thinking the rapture could be at any moment, they would have died 'In Christ' and would be taken whether they were dead or alive and, yes, be saved. Not 'moot' at all!They could not know that they would not live to see the rapture. And, everyone experiences tribulation (small 't') to some degree. The Big 'T'ribulation which is to come (shortly) will greatly surpass the death & destruction on the world during WWII.
Great deception! Jesus Himself said, "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven..and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER His elect..."
i noticed you didn't really answer. Are those believers subject to Gods wrath? Are they appointed to wrath despite finding salvation in Jesus?
Why are not believers subject to his wrath now? Because Jesus calmed the wrath of God through his death on the cross for all who believe regardless of when.
@Myhopeisinhim I answered,You did not understand.Unless protected supernaturally by God,EVERYONE on earth subject to earthly laws will undergo Wrath. Perhaps you can give a worldly explanation to have all new believers escape, say, a tsunami? IF the Trib Sts undergo the Wrath, perhaps they will believe stronger that God is in control and owns the earth. It is all unknown and to God's plan. My opinion (as yours) is worthless.
Trick questions are a waste of time and I won't play.
actually pre-trib only really came to light in the 1800's and is the most popular rapture theory out there. It spread like wild fire once it hit the scoffield bible. Its the theory that everyone even post tribbers would love to believe in. Out of all the rapture doctrines its the one that tickles the ears the most.
@Myhopeisinhim I read thru the Bible and I, for one, don't need my ears tickled but I discerned Pre-trib on my own and it is the only timing that is fully supported by scripture as well as makes good common sense and logic when ALL verses are kept in context.
the pretrib rapture is false doctrine brought about in the 1820's, this is satans way of decieving even the elect. jesus said there will be a great falling away from the faith, and this will happen when the pretrib rapture does not happen. jesus said we will be hated and killed for his names sake by the anti christ. god will protect his people during the tribulation. people really need to get away from the false doctrine. they do not want to hear the truth.
@whollish Wow, Didn't Paul, Peter and other thousands of believers go through the same tribulation of being hated and killed for His name's sake? Were there no anti-Christs during that time? We pre-tribs look for the redemption because we have hope that He is going to appear and will redeem us. Post-trib faith is spreading like wild fire, just like He said the false doctrine will be prevalent in last days-perilous times.
@levi0574 The post-tribbers somehow think it's "unfair" that we are going Home to be WITH the Lord while billions of people are going to "suffer". They don't seem to understand that we're almost at the End of the Book. I'm quite suprised that they aren't mad at God for letting Noah & his family stay in the Ark during their "Tribulation & Wrath of God". We're promised Rewards & Crowns (2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4) so we HAVE to be in Heaven to Receive them. No "sharp sword" for us!!
@JesusHoldMyHand1 We will get Raptured before God pours out His wrath on the unbelievers. However, the Bible clearly states that we Christian's will be present when the AntiChrist arrives on the scene.
2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
@CrackerJayherber Many Christians will be down here, but I won't be. Those Christians are NOT Faithful to the Lord. They will NOT be in the Rapture. Just as Jesus told the Believers, Saved Christians Revelation 3:10 - they will be kept from (out of) the trial & testing that is going to come upon the Whole World. Who comes back WITH Jesus?: Revelation 17:14. I'll be watching Jesus Christ be Crowned with His MANY Crowns, I am going to the Wedding & Supper. Matthew 25:1-13
@whollish Sorry,1Thes5:9For God hath not appointed us to wrath,but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,Rev3:10Bcause thou hast kept the word of my patience,I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation.Also-Rev2:10,Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer:bhold, the devil shall cast [some]of you into prison, that ye may be tried;*and ye shall have tribulation ten days*:be thou faithful unto death (as above ‘some’ is implied),and I will give thee a crown of life.
God hath not appointed us to wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Awesome verse:) I wonder though. Do you not believe people become believers during the tribulation? If so, are they subject to God's wrath while at the same time obtaining salvation, getting both sides of the coin?
I thought the pre-trib was biblical, too, until I really examined the scriptures and realized that it simply wasn't there, despite fighting hard to keep believing it.
@Myhopeisinhim Yes it is. Also:Rev3:10Bcause thou hast kept the word of my patience,I also will keep thee*from*(ek)the hour of temptation.Rev 2:10,Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer:behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried;*and ye shall have tribulation ten days*: be thou faithful unto death (as above ‘some’ is implied), and I will give thee a crown of life.
@Myhopeisinhim Yes, new believers will be the Tribulation Saints and is fully addressed in scripture. Unless God supernaturally intervenes, everyone on earth would feel the effects of Wrath to some degree. Earthquakes, tsunamis, drought, floods, famine, etc, etc. The Trib Sts also have the added wrath of satan in the form of the a/c goon squads and not being able to buy or sell.
"The wrath to come" is referring to the wrath of the Lamb-Jesus Christ when He returns in righteous indignation at the Last Trump. The signs that the Lord Yeshua told us to watch for are HERE NOW. We are not only to be watching, but carefully listening to the Holy Spirit, who will then direct our listening hearts to a safe place of refuge. America is not safe! It will soon become a total Nazi State, and will eventually be taken over by the Chinese.LISTEN TO HIS VOICE & PREPARE, FLEE & HIDE NOW.
@shiphrahhopeful Not everyone can flee and flee to where? The entire earth will be affected. This is not a localized condition satan is bringing about. The only way is to find and follow Jesus. Then address the situation as needs be. Whether pre-trib rapture or not, we need to be able to help ourselves and loved ones. True for surviving the Trib. or even if merely for normal natural disasters. We will be where we are supposed to be at the time.
@hiyosilver100 The "entire earth" was affected by the Great Flood in Noah's day too, but God made a way for Noah and his family to be protected and survive through it.
No one is removed from the world because of temptation; rather we are strengthened to withstand the temptation. We are promised God will put no more on us than we can bear...
@hiyosilver100 ...It's not God's will to remove His people out of the world when evil comes. Jesus prayed, "I pray NOT that thou shouldest TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, but that thou shouldest KEEP THEM FROM the evil." John 17:15.
1 Cor. 10:13: "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
@hiyosilver100 The escape isn't a worldly escape, it is a promise that we will be able to bear what comes upon us. God has shown me that He will protect many of His children in remote locations during the Great Tribulation.The ones that He will protect are those who know His voice & live a sanctified (set apart) lifestyle.
There will be no rapture until THE LAST TRUMP,(see Matt.24:29-31 & 1Cor.16:52), so we'd better start asking Him for wisdom & direction now.
@shiphrahhopeful Merely your opinion. Seems that you misunderstand what you are reading in the scriptures. I have discerned and have found verification thru many learned men that provide Biblical proof of a pre-Trib rapture. Your opinion will not change my mind.
Holding to a Pre-Tribulation rapture notion is drastically weakening the Church worldwide. The Church should be preparing for spiritual battle against the most evil forces arrayed by hell. Instead, the Church is lukewarm and languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by demonic powers in order to result in a limp army of believers, who will not endure til the end. In this age of laxity among Christians, it does not take much on the part of the dark powers to accomplish this goal
@shiphrahhopeful (I ignored this before).This is merely your opinion&does a disservice to new believers.Perry Stone,Grant Jeffries&many other deeply studied&broadcast men address this in clear videos WITH Biblical references.If u have an opposing viewpoint, provide line&verse or, better yet, a detailed series of videos.Otherwise, pls refrain from making such statements as if they are facts. *I* am by no means influenced by any form of demon which is what you emphatically imply.
@hiyosilver100 You must be confusing me with someone else's comment. I gave clear Biblical references to you in the comments I made, and I never recall "emphatically implying that you are influenced by demons".????
Please go back and read over the scriptures references & comments that I gave you. Please make sure to double check whos comment it is that you are reading this time. Thank you.
@shiphrahhopeful I confuse you with no one. Here is a quote from YOUR comment (which someone has marked as 'spam'): "....the Church is lukewarm and languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by demonic powers in order to result in a limp army of believers...." YOUR implication is clear and strong. Ppl need to be wary of someone so intent and vociferous while providing NO scriptural references for their opinion. Bring your venom elsewhere.
@hiyosilver100 Mark 13:24-27 "But in those days, AFTER THE TRIBULATION, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And THEN shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN."
@hiyosilver100 1Thess.4:15,16 "WE WHICH ARE ALIVE & REMAIN unto the coming of the Lord...with the voice of the archangel AND TRUMP OF GOD... SHALL BE CAUGHT UP.."
Isaiah 27:13, "And it shall come to pass in THAT DAY,(The Day of the Lord), that the GREAT TRUMPET shall be blown...they shall come...and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem."
Zach.9:14"...the Lord God shall blow THE TRUMPET".
I need to get the message out concerning preparation for the soon coming Great Tribulation. We can be like Noah and heed God's warning, or perish. God will reveal safe locations to those who hear him clearly. As Noah, we are to hear God's voice today and prepare for the Great Tribulation that is soon to come. Major cities, as well as coastal areas, are destined for judgment. As soon as possible, Christians should relocate to more rural or remote places.
Hallo my brothers and sisters, i can highly advise you to listen to this teaching and ALL those believing in pre-tribulation, it's a catholic jesuit doctrine to deceive you. Don't be fooled. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture vs. The Post-Tribulation Rapture /watch?v=7hnD43OwCMw&list=PL5E3E52C315D8253D&index=1&feature=plpp_video
I love you do you know that! Do you know that everything done outside of love is nothing! We are suppose to be family in the Lord. I apoligize ok! It doesn`t matter if I`m right or your wrong! All that matters is that we show the love of Christ. John said that Christ loved us and we should love the breathren. Please forgive me for my part in going on with this! We are the family of Christ and should not be showing the whole world this kind of division. So please forgive me!
@HumbleHeartMinistry Are you posting to me? If so, I love you, too, but you have to understand something. We have Saved, Born Again Christians LIVING in sin right this moment. There are Pastors preaching "another gospel", having sex with young boys & girls. Some are doing drugs, prostituting themselves, have left Christianity heading over to Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism (& all fake religions). They are stealing, lying, killing unborn babies; Jesus says REPENT
The one-world government is already beginning to exist. India is going to make all of its 1billion citizens receive a unique 12-digit number through this certain identification system called Foundation. That's about a sixth of the world's population. So keep watching because Jesus is coming for us very soon.
Sir you are very confused! Anyways,I don`t serve God for rewards I serve him because I love him.He teaches the meek his word..And those that seek him with all their heart,soul,mind and strenth.Paul said 1 cor.8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything,he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.You circle around the point with your own veiws. My part in this is over since u refuse to give sound doctrine concerning the subject. You have a good one my friend!
@HumbleHeartMinistry "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done." Revelation 22:12 So you don't like what Jesus Himself says?? Rewards are mentioned many places: 1Corinthians 3:12-15; 2Corinthians 5:10; Colossians 3:24; 2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4; Revelation 2:10. Rewards are Jesus' special tokens of His Love for those who Love, Worship, Believe in Him. They are based upon ones FAITHFULNESS to Him - MARANATHA
@JesusHoldMyHand1 I know in some weird way you think you are trying to help me. I know you are conviced that because I don`t believe your pre-trib rapture doctrine that I will loose my rewards.That is fine,If you want to believe that go ahead!To allege however, that I do not believe my bible and do not know my God is pride on your part. And I truely hope you repent of that! I forgive u. May God show u mercy as he has had on me! U have a good life! God will set in order all things when he comes!
@HumbleHeartMinistry I'm only telling you what the Bible says & what the Lord says. It's up to you whether you believe God's Word or not. I don't need to repent of anything you have said. You are the one who's REJECTING God's very word. I'm quite secure in my salvation with the Lord. Maybe after you read His Scripture over & over for the next 25 years, you also may understand. But now, you just don't. And if you're down here during the GT, I'm sure you'll know why.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Look at what you wrote! And you don`t think your proud and decieved by pride? I will let God be my judge. The only thing I`m rejecting is your insanity! GO AWAY! LEAVE ME ALONE!
@JesusHoldMyHand1 love you do you know that! Do you know that everything done outside of love is nothing! We are suppose to be family in the Lord. I apoligize ok! It doesn`t matter if I`m right or wrong! All that matters is that we show the love of Christ. John said that Christ loved us and we should love the breathren. Please forgive me for my part in going on with this! We are the family of Christ and should not be showing the whole world this kind of division. So please forgive me!
All my Brothers & Sisters in Christ, what a Majestic, Glorious, Fantastic Celebration will take place right after the Rapture. In Revelation 5:6 we see Jesus, Our Lord, looking like a Lamb that was slain. Our Christ, Our Redeemer, Our Almighty God is not wearing ANY Crowns....not yet. But in Rev 19:12 He returns at His 2nd Coming WEARING MANY CROWNS. WOW!! We are going to watch that Coronation in the Angelic Heavens then go to the Wedding Supper of the Lamb: Rev. 19:7-10 & return WITH Him!!
Wouldn't bother me though. I've been persecuted my whole life both by demonic savages and self-righteous fk-tards. Yes fk-tards mean born again Christians. My idea of heaven would be
not being amongst 90% of people commenting on this video.
I welcome the tribulation. Will be icing on the cake for me. Blood, Chaos and Death. All the things Im use to in life. Now my holy than thou brethern don't go assuming things.
PS: The "Last Day" is NOT the last 24 hours. Those killed during the Great Tribulation are RESURRECTED only. They NEVER meet Christ "in the air". Revelation 20:4-6. Those who survive the Great Tribulation are "gathered" by Angels. They never meet Christ "in the air" either. Mark 13:27. They will be separated - Sheep/Goats - The Sheep go into to the Kingdom alive - The goats are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Matthew 25:31-46 Those Sheep are the ones who populate the Kingdom - the World.
and alot people prefer pre-trib because of their desire not to suffer. It tugs on the strings of the heart. If one could escape theyd take it.
People don't desire to stay because they don't want to leave..consider the option..perfect rest in heaven or ultimate torture here? One would be a fool to pick to stay, who wouldn't want to avoid it. i don't pick to stay because of some selfish desire but because bible says we aren't gathered till after.
Facts- The dead in christ rise 1st. THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up. Jesus said in John four times that all that are his he will raise THE LAST DAY. And Martha said it to Jesus 1 time in John that the resurection is the last day. In Luke it says,THE SAME DAY Lot was taken out of Sodom it rained fire & brimstone from heaven & as soon as Noe entered the ark the flood came. This is just plain out false doctrine being recieved by those who take the pastors word over the Bibles!
@HumbleHeartMinistry I'm not going to repeat everything I just said to "kepnjem" on this video, but I ask you the same questions, then I ask you - was Jesus ready to come back and set up His Kingdom during the days of Noah or Lot OR did He remove them from His JUDMENTS that came upon the evil, sinning world/cities? In Matthew 24:36-44 it should be quite plain that Jesus was talking about how His Judgments will fall: NO WARNING. Those "taken" are WITH Him. Better read more
@JesusHoldMyHand1 #1.Jesus said it will be like the days of Noe & like the days of Lot who went through the flood & was not takin out of Sodom until the same day Gods judgement fell.#2.Nowhere does it say in 1 Thes.that Jesus is above the clouds.#3 A trumpet & a shout are not quiet evryone will hear and see Jesus when he comes.#4.The dead in Christ rise the last day & they rise first.#5.Just read from 1 Thes.4 unto 1 Thes 5:2.It clearly says he is talking about the Day of the Lord.Read 2Pet 3:10
@HumbleHeartMinistry You are denying the whole of the Gospel. We go through the clouds to meet Him in the air. Now, does that sound like He is on the Earth? He is ABOVE the clouds. "Trump of God" "Trumpet Call of God" is the VOICE of Jesus, not the Shout. Do you not understand the writing of the Lord? Do you kow the difference between a Reward & a Sword? Reward: Revelation 22:12; 2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4; Colossians 3:24. Sword, to KILL His enemies: Revelation 19:19 & 21
@JesusHoldMyHand1 2 Tim 4:8 u quoted-says the crown is givin on that DAY to all that love his APPEARING.1 Peter 5:4 says the chief shepherd shall APPEAR.Just like it says EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM in Rev 1:7.And Rev 19:19-21 is at the end of the tribulation and the begining of his WRATH.As the Antichrist and false prophet are still on earth during the tribulation.Is.57:1-2 is the pre-trib rapture.Read Zeph.1:15 his wrath comes in one day.Those who are alive & REMAIN(Greek for remain is "SURVIVE")
@HumbleHeartMinistry That is the Rapture. There are NO REWARDS when Christ comes back with a Sharp Sword to KILL His Enemies. The 24 elders in Revelation 4:1-5 HAVE their Crowns. They get them WHEN Christ Appears at the Rapture. We get ours then, too. Revelation 2:10. You are not separating Rapture verses from the 2nd Coming verses. You've been taught wrongly & I'm trying to help you. We ALSO Judge the World & the Angels - 1Corinthians 6:2-3 & Jude 14-16.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 The 420 elders are not the church.I was born again in a church and have been praise leader in two churches that taught the pre-trib rapture teaching.I saw that the teaching did not line up to the word of God.And is simply false teaching that wasn`t even taught untill around 1830.And was never taught by Jesus nor his disciples.U never will convince me of this false doctrine.And u are convinced of it.Nice takin with u brother! Please read from 1 thes 4 to 5:2 keep it in content.
@HumbleHeartMinistry Part #1 I don't know where you got 420 elders??? There are 24 elders = 12 Apostles (Matthew 19:28. Maybe you're thinking of the 70 elders who, with Moses, met Jesus Christ? Exodus 24:9-12. The other 12 elders in Revelation 4:1-5 are Prophets of Israel, the first "Preachers" of the Word of God. Paul taught about the Rapture in the 1st Century. It wasn't preached a lot after that, becasue the too many didn't understand prophecy.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Rev 4:4 The elders.... Paul never taught the Pre-Trib Rapture He taught the catching away of the saints on the day of the lord after the dead in Christ rise first. Like I said. You have your mind made up and I believe the word of God. All that that u wrote about Israel being a nation and atom bomb and computers proves nothing about a pre-trib rapture.Show me the scriptures where paul taught it or any one else taught it?I will show u by the word how they are twisted to prove it!
@HumbleHeartMinistry So you don't believe your own Bible where Paul says he's getting his Crown & all who "long for the appearing of Christ" (paraphrased) in 2Timothy 4:8, also get theirs. Well, OK. I hope to meet you when Christ either "raises you from the dead" Revelation 20:4-6 or an Angel "gathers" you from where every you'll be hiding. Good Luck to you & be sure to keep your Bible close. Maybe you can help others who will be with you. Peace!
@JesusHoldMyHand1 When did I say I don`t believe we get rewards? If u have sound biblical proof of the pre-trib rapture then show it. I will contend for the faith with u. But in the right spirit not with cut downs! If u want I will gather all the scripture God has revealed to me and u can do the same..And we will let the scripture prove the scripture. I have seen both sides of the coin and God has reaved to me his truth. And its God I only care about pleasing. Have a good day!
@HumbleHeartMinistry The ONLY time anyone gets Rewards is at the Rapture & since you won't be there, you'll get a "white robe" - Revelation 7:14. Those are the same Dead people in Revelation 20:4-6. No Judgment Seat of Christ, No Crowns. But you'll still get to be in the Kingdom, and you could count that as a "Reward".
@HumbleHeartMinistry Part #2 Israel had to be a Nation (1948). There had to be a way to be able to kill everyone on Earth, or no flesh would be saved (A-Bomb 1944). There had to be some way to "mark" every individual on the Earth (Scanners & Comptuers 1980s-2000s). There has to be the alignment of Nations that will be the Revived Roman Empire - NOW & STILL GROWING. There will be 1 World Government - 1 World Currency - 1 World Religion. These 3 will be fulfilled soon.
@HumbleHeartMinistry Maybe you should read the parable that Jesus gave us in Matthew 25:1-13. The 10 Virgins are Christians - The Bridegroom is Jesus Christ. Why do you think Christ shuts the door on the 5 Foolish Christians? (Revelation 4:1) No Wedding Banquet for the 5 Foolish. I just wonder if the 5 Foolish didn't do what He told them to do? Maybe they were out "living" their lives, doing what they wanted? Did they buy the oil like they were told? Were they READY? WATCH & BE READY
There is no pre-trib rapture.The bible says we are not appointed to wrath. Not we are not appointed to tribulation. In fact it says that through much tribulation we must enter the Kingdom of God. Tribulation and wrath are not the same thing. The day of Gods wrath is the 2nd coming when a fire goes before him and the wicked are burned up.The tribulation is testing of all upon the earth.Parable of wheat and tares. The tares are reaped first & burned THEN the wheat gathered into the barn.
...Then after watching this eat your steak dinner, have a hot shower, get into a warm, cosy bed & dream of escaping the tribulation. While you're doing this, Christians the world over are in prison & persecuted for their faith. Type in "persecution" & see for yourselves! Then read John 11:24, 6:40, Daniel 12:13, 1 Thess 4:13-18. It's not gonna happen! God bless.
@kepnjem Do you know the difference between Rewards & a sharp Sword? Revelation 22:12; 2Timothy 4:8; 2Peter 5:4 - Revelation 19:15 . Do you know that Jesus is ABOVE the Clouds in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 & is hidden like Acts 1:9? Do you know tha Jesus' VOICE sounds like a Trumpet? Revelation 1:10 & 4:1 Do you know that the Great Tribulation starts when Jesus opens the Seals to HIS Judgments & Wrath? Revelation 6-19. His FAITHFUL followers with be WITH HIM. Revelation 17:14. PTL
Maybe Dec 21st just marks the end of the Mayan year. Still, the time period puts us on the same plane as the center of our Milkyway galaxy and as our axial tilt comes to center point with the Sun, and it with the galaxy, maybe we start speeding towards a magnetic reversal. That "flip" of direction of electrical energy could "flip" our spirits into "rapture" and join the universal spirit? Those holding on undergoing the tribulations of a pole shift, then?
We must read the bible as well,because we all need to be educated on the knowledge of the Word of God,it is vital that we watch and pray until Jesus Christ returns.
This is explained very well,thank you for sharing this information,I believe that God could rapture His people at anytime,we must pray for the unbelievers more than ever,because if you look around the world,there wars and rumours of wars,earthquakes in diverse places and pestilence as well,we all need to be born again before the rapture.It will be a very sad day for those left behind,then it will be too late.
Luke 17:37 tells where those are taken from the field, grinding & bed. I guess the 150 days Noah spent on the water must not count as part of the 1st end time or Lot outside the city hearing the screaming & watching his wife turn to a pillar of salt. All I want is one example of it not happening at the same time. All Jesus parables, wheat & tares, sheep & goats, 10 virgins or the rest, have Him returning 1 time to execute reward & judgement. Read all the parables. Peace2All
Matthew 25:1-13 has NOTHING to do with a Jewish Wedding. I don't know where anyone can draw that analogy. The RAPTURE is an analogy of a Jewish Wedding. In Matthew, Jesus is talking about Christians who MISS the Rapture. This is a parable - it speaks of THE TRUTH...... WAKE-UP FOLKS. Many are going to go through the most horrific, slaughtering time in human history .... Straighten up, make yourselves "accepting" to the Lord, because if you're living in sin, you will NOT be in the Rapture!
"In Matthew, Jesus is talking about Christians who MISS the Rapture.Straighten up, make yourselves "accepting" to the Lord, because if you're living in sin, you will NOT be in the Rapture!"
No..you merely take Christs warning about luke warm Christians being judged along with the unbelievers at his 2nd coming,and twist it to fit the pre trib doctine.During the days of Noah when the door was closed judgement came swiftly afterwards.Gods 'judgement' is not part of the AC's persecution of saints.
@richiefranklin76 What???? You are WRONG. Those Lukewarm Christians, along with the other 4 Backsliding Churches WILL repent with the new converts during the Great Tribulation. They are SAVED/No Hell, but they're NOT living FOR Christ when He comes in the Rapture. Those Repentant Christians will either be "resurrected" Revelation 20:4-6 or "gathered" by Angels as in Mark 13:27. Sheep go into the Kingdom, Goats to Hell. Matthew 25:31-46. The Rapture is NOT the END.
Just because Paul says God hasn't appointed us to wrath doesn't mean we won't endure tribulation. Jesus said that we would and all that live godly in Christ Jesus will face persecution. It will test and try our faith.
I welcome anyone to message me, I will give you my cell phone number and we will have a debate in the Bible, not opinion. I Know for a fact that their is no rapture of the Church only. There will be a Harvest though.
chadro777 1 day ago
if you read about the one taken and the one left the disciples in luke 17:37 ask him where Lord as in where are they taken and he says " where the body is, there the eagle will gather. He is clearly talking about the Supper of the Great God in Revelation 19:17, so based on that you wouln't want to be taken. When he says he didn't appoint us to suffer wrath he means that if we have the seal of God, much like the children of Isreal in Egypt having the blood over the doors, we will not be killed.
chadro777 1 day ago
@chadro777 Furthermore, show me anywhere in the Bible where it says a 7 Year Tribulation?
chadro777 1 day ago
For those of you who don't know the difference between a Reward or a Sharp Sword - Rewards is what Jesus gives you at the Judgment Seat of Christ. A Sharp Sword is what Jesus bring WITH Him at His 2nd Coming to KILL His enemies. No Crowns - Just slaughter of the wicked. After Jesus throws the Antichrist & False Prophet into the Lake of Fire, He will then Resurrect the Christians who died during the GT. They NEVER meet Christ in the air - they are NEVER Raptured. Read Revelation 19 & 20
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 week ago
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@JesusHoldMyHand1
Hello, read this verse:
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto THY servants the PROPHETS, and to the SAINTS, and THEM that FEAR thy NAME, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Judging and rewards are happening at basically the same time here. The wicked are being judged, while the servants of the Lord are being
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
rewarded...what is so hard about that verse? Why do you cover your eyes when it gets to the reward part? It is pretty clear here as well as other passages of scripture, that he is coming both with rewards and with judgment.
Ignore it if you will, but I can't and won't.
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Show us that verse that says Christ resurrects the Christians who died during the great trib and show us how if he raises them up on the last day(John 6:39-40) they are not "raptured"(caught up) and be sure and point out those verses.
NickelsBuckingBulls 1 week ago
Jesus says He's coming and His Reward will be WITH Him. Revelation 22:11. Receiving our Crowns: 2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4; Revelation 2:10 - How do you think the 24 elders got their Crowns? 12 of the Elders are the Apostles: Matthew 19:28 - The other 12 Elders are Prophets of Israel. I suggest you quit watching & listening to misleading, misguided, off-the-wall people who DON'T read the Bible. They are being deceitful and are leading MANY astray. Just READ the Bible - It's ALL in there.
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 week ago
read rev 11 about the seventh trumpet..the final trumpet..it speaks of the time of rewards...so that kinda tells us he is coming with rewards.
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
@Myhopeisinhim The 7th Trumpet is blown by an ANGEL - it is a Trumpet of JUDGMENT = Revelation 8:6 & 11:15 - Judgment: 11:19 - an earthquake & SEVER. hailstorm. The Trump of God/Trumpet Call of God/The Last Trumpet IS JESUS' Voice: Revelation 1:10-11 & 4:1. It sounds like you have quite a few years of studying to do.
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 week ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1
Hey there:) I'm going to show you a small passage, and you can accept it or deny what it says, it's your choice:
Rev 11:15-18 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God
more...
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
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Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
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Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto THY servants the PROPHETS, and to the SAINTS, and THEM that FEAR thy NAME, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
more
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
SO yes, while it is also a time of judgment upon his return when the seventh angel sounds...it is also a time of him rewarding his prophets, saints, and all those who fear his name.
This verse calls you out, Jesusholdmyhand1, and tells you bluntly that it is a time of reward as well. How can you deny what it says?
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
@Myhopeisinhim "LOUD VOICES IN HEAVEN" IN Revelation 11:15-18 - Yes, we ARE in Heaven Praising the Lord. Just like in Revelation 7:10, 12, 15; 15:3; 16:7; 19:1-10. Who do you think is the GREAT MULTITUDE? We are RAPTURED as shown in Revelation 4:1; just as the 2 Witnesses are in Revelation 11 AFTER they are murdered. "Come up here" .. does that sound familiar? Do you KNOW What Raptured means???? The ascending to Jesus. We GO to Him. John 14:1-3 Better study more.
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 week ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Looks to me like you have never studied the Bible. You just make things up as you go.
NickelsBuckingBulls 1 week ago
its also possible that some of the nation of israel enter in in mortal bodies...maybe they don't truly accept him until they see him.
There are many possibilities at this point..but even though we aren't 100% sure doesn't take away the possibility of a post trib rapture, especially given there is a resurrection of the dead in christ here and the dead are supposed to rise first.
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
the bible teaches that there will be some left of the nations which went against israel..its possible that only those in the armies situated in the valley of megiddo are killed at this point...
He speaks of these nations going up to jerusalem to worship every year and if they refuse he'll cause it not to rain,..doesn't sound like saved believers here.
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
@jesusholdmyhand1
jesus himself said he was coming and his reward was with him. Don't forget those who died in christ during the trib are resurrected here to live and reign with christ..thus you can't say hes not coming with reward.
As for who enters the millenium.....
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
@Myhopeisinhim He comes with NO rewards. The Great Tribulation Saints that are "resurrected" get ROBES: Revelation 7:14-17. The greatest reward that they'll receive is the "resurrection", going into the Kingdom and serving God for Eternity. That in itself is wonderful - however; most MISSED the opportunity - which is NOW - to Accept the Loving Forgiveness of Jesus Christ & REPENT - they reject Him, say it's stupid, a fairy tale. Some of them are NEW Converts, but NOT all.
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 week ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1
Umm, the tribulation saints not only get resurrected...they ALSO LIVE AND REIGN with Christ for 1000 years...why do you try and knock them down? I don't get why you look down on them and somehow look at yourself in a more prideful light.
They find salvation in christ and live and reign with him, like you do..their deaths glorify god, just as peter's did and all the early church saints because they did not love their lives unto death
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
Remember the words of Christ: Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Why do you think Christ will spare you what he didn't spare the early church from? picking up the cross is a part of who you are as a christian..he has never told you that he'd rapture you out before the trib...no where no how...show me one verse that is as blunt as the gathering in Matthew 24...can you do it? nope.
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
Do you know how I know? cause I tried and there is simply no verse that states you'll be gathered before. In fact, the bible declares the rapture to be on the day of the Lord...and the bible shows that to be at the end of the tribulation.
It may not be a pleasant message, but it's the truth.
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
@Myhopeisinhim They NEVER "meet Christ in the air". They MISSED the Rapture. Do you know that we JUDGE the Fallen Angels? 1Corinthians 6:2-3 .. Here we come! Jude 1:14-16. We RECEIVE Crowns and Kingdom Assignments at the Rapture. We WATCH the Coronation of Christ. He will receive MANY Crowns. In Rev. 5:6 He has NO Crowns - But in Revelation 19:11-12 He's WEARING many Crowns. You're going to miss that Beautiful, Majestic, Glorious event plus MORE. Read Mattthew 25:1-13
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 week ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1
Umm, the bible says that the dead in christ will rise first on the day of the Lord, which occurs after the sixth seal in the book of revelation....this means that all who have died, including those in the tribulation will God bring with him.
Why do you think otherwise? Besides, the bible also teaches that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord...those who have died are with him already or do you believe like jw's in soul sleep?
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
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Then how come in Rev 7 tribes of Israel are sealed first then the number no man number of all tribes Rev 14:1 :144,000 Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were REDEEMED from AMONG MEN, [being] the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb - and it written they are the firstfruits then how can the church be first?
thetruthimpart 3 weeks ago
yet one is never mentioned...A rapture, or gathering, is never mentioned until the end, after the tribulation. No where in scripture does it even mention any type of gathering until the end. No where, as bad as we wish there to be.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
Rev 3:10, nor Luke 21:36, prove it because we don't need to be removed from this world to be kept from something. 2 thess 2 doesn't show it, even though we try to change the wording slightly to prove it does.
Anytime the gathering is mentioned, anytime, it is shown to be after. This was hard for me to finally accept because I wanted nothing more than to believe in a pre-trib rapture.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
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@Myhopeisinhim Check out: /watch?v=bFGrzxO9Dgw&feature=related
This is No. 4 of 7. Better to start with one but this one explains the 2 different trumpets.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim I don't see a pretrib rapture, I'm not saying I'm right, yet I was wondering how pretibbers explain Rev 20:4 & 5 which is plainly saying that only those who go thru tribulation & are either beheaded or refuse the mark of the beast or worship him, are the one's who rule & reign 1000 yrs & are the 1st resurrection. When 1 Thes 4:17 says, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I believe it all happens at the 2nd coming. After satans rule, Christ returns. PeaceB2Ya
JimmyCarol100 3 weeks ago
@JimmyCarol100 If you think that the Rapture is at the 2nd Coming, then who walks into the Kingdom alive? All Believers would be Raptured - All of Christ's enemies are killed, then who's alive to follow Satan in Revelation 20:7-10? At the Rapture we receive our Crowns: 2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4; Revelation 2:10; 22:12. At the 2nd Coming Jesus has NO Rewards, only a Sharp Sword (His Voice) to KILL all those who oppose Him. We come back WITH Jesus: Revelation 17:14; 19:7-21
JesusHoldMyHand1 3 weeks ago
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Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
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shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
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shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
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shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100 Angels are gathering saints from the four corners of HEAVEN & EARTH Mk.13: 27, because the saints that endure til the END, will be caught up in the clouds to be transformed, & so the angels are gathering us all to meet above the Mt. of Olives to touch down together.
1Thess.4:15,16 "we which are alive & REMAIN unto the coming of the Lord...with the voice of the archangel AND trump of God... SHALL BE CAUGHT UP.."
1Cor.15:52,"at the LAST TRUMP..WE SHALL BE CHANGED".
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
@shiphrahhopeful
Good point:) Another thing people don't do is read into the next chapter of 1 thess 4, where it states when the catching up takes place:
1Th 5:1 ¶ But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night
Question is, when is the day of the Lord?....
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not....
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
All these verses indicate a rapture later than what the pre-tribbers wish.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
Thus we back up to 1 thess 4, and we notice that it matches with what the Lord says in Matthew 24, after the tribulation of those days shall appear the sign of the son of man, and he will send his angels to gather his elect.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim The "elect" are the Jews! Who will be new believers (along with many Gentiles, of course). Gathered by the Angels after Armeggedon at the END of THE tribulation. The Day of the Lord is also The Time of Jacob's Trouble. NOT the time of the Gentile's or Believer's Trouble. Please do not ignore the numerous OTHER verses that address the Day of the Lord.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100
While the jews were called the elect, the believers are also called the elect. We read about us being the elect, chosen of God, in Colossians 3. Curious, when do you believe the marriage supper is?
I do not believe that Isaiah 26, the chambers verse, is eluding to a pre-trib rapture, not if you read the context of the prior chapters, and even the one or two chapters after. Initially by itself it looks like it may.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Fantastic points! It's clear that all these passages obviously connect to the same event. The last trump, saints being caught up with the Lord, the sounding of the seventh Angel, and the day of the Lord, are all the same event.
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
@shiphrahhopeful
Mhmm, the only reason they don't see it is because they are taught that it is the pre-trib rapture that is the blessed hope, the fact that they'll be taken out before, rather then the hope being that whether we live or die, he will take us home to be with him and that we who are alive will not precede those who have died.
This is what gave the disciples the strength to die for the Lord, and what will give the tribulation saints the courage...
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
to walk to the guillotine and give glory to God even unto their last breath. They seem to think that if we're faced with death that we can't find comfort, and how can that be a comforting thought etc.
They are focusing on the when instead of the who and why.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
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@Myhopeisinhim I believe that there are those who are called to be martyred, but I also believe that sadly, the majority of believers which will be killed, will be those who did not prepare when they should have, especially due to their hope in a pre-tribulation rapture. I believe that parents especially have a duty to protect their children, and should be asking the Lord for wisdom & direction to those divinely protected areas where they can hide themselves and their children. Proverbs 22:3
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim In 2 Thess. 2:1-3, the "coming of our Lord" and the "day of the Lord" are grouped with the rapture, or "our being gathered to him", verifying again that these events occur together. Notice that "that day" mentioned in v.3 is a specific day in this cluster of events.
In 2 Thess.1:7-10, "the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven...will punish those who do not know God...on the Day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed."
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
@shiphrahhopeful The Day that the Lord comes to punish those who do not obey the gospel, and the Day that he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among ALL those that believed, is the Day of the glorious rapture.
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
@shiphrahhopeful Here, too, you fail to see that "the coming of Our Lord" and the "day of Christ" pertains to the Second Coming which is in different facets.
On the "day of the circus", there may be a parade&then the circus is in town for the week.2 Thess.1:7-10 says nothing to indicate that there is no rapture.To me,this speaks of the final Touchdown on earth when the evil will be punished.To be praised and glorified by the Sts & Blievrs bcause it is over&the 1000 years begins
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim You fail to see the similarites between the Harpazo and the Jewish wedding traditions. It was the Jews that were the subject of early teachings. Pls explain who will be at the marriage feast in Heaven, who will be the multitudes to exalt at the throne? Who are the saints hidden in the chamber for the time of the Trib? Who are the souls of the Saints hiding under the altar?
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Picking verses piecemeal is convenient. These verses do nothing to disprove pre-rapture. Many of us see this happening near to the beginning of the Great Tribulation shortly before or shortly after the rapture which kicks off the entrance of the a/c.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
@shiphrahhopeful Mk13:27- Is this before or after the SAINTS in Heaven return with Jesus on the white horses?
1Thes4:15-yes, those that are alive and remain alive at the time of the rapture will be caught up just behind those that died in Christ.
Again- confusing the Last Trump with the very final announcement of the Trump of God when Christ sets foot on earth.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100
1 Thess 4:15 - if you read into verse 5, you will see that the day Paul is talking about, the day of the rapture occurs on the day of the Lord, which occurs at the end of the tribulation. There is no way around this fact. No way around the fact that Paul describes the same events in the same order as Jesus did in Matthew 24, as much as we try to twist and turn 2 thess 2 or 1 thess 4/5.
souls under the altar are those who have been beheaded.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@shiphrahhopeful Check out: /watch?v=bFGrzxO9Dgw&feature=related
This is No. 4 of 7. Better to start with one but this one explains the 2 different trumpets.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
There is no 7-year tribulation period. Completely unbiblical.
FAITHandLOGIC 3 weeks ago
just one last post for now, I promise:). What do you think gives those in the tribulation the strength to die for christ and be beheaded? Its the same hope you have now.
That whether we live or die, he will take us home to be with him upon his glorious return. This gives them the strength as it did for his disciples long ago.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Something to think about:ALL taken in the rapture(or at the end)WILL be sinners(we all are sinners to1 degree or another,no?On earth,we can never be truly spotless).Previewed&found acceptable by Jesus,we will be taken&forgiven of all sins in a twinkling when we receive the glorified body&taken into Heaven.There are no sinners in Heaven.Taken into Heaven clean with no desire to sin ever again.The 2nd death has no bearing on those raptured as per scripture for reason
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
i learned though that if taking the word pre off the rapture caused me to lose hope then I was putting more stock in the when then in the who and what was really our hope.
Lets find peace in the fact that whether we live or die we will go to be with him when he returns.
God bless
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
Please know that I do understand your concerns and fears. I once stood where you are now.
I know why you believe it and I believed it for over 20 years. I defended it without fail and without doubt. No one could sway my mind. With this said, I know why you think think believing otherwise would make a person lose hope.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
Please know that I understand your concern and fears regarding this. I stood once where you are now so I understand completely.
I know every reason why you believe in pre-trib and I once believed them all too. Without fail and without doubt. I defended it unceasingly for over 20 years.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim If you are talking to me- I have no fears of any of this. I fully believe that I will be found worty to get a ticket on the rapture cloud but if the Good Lord designs to leave me behind, I will deal with that well. For myself and anyone else that I may come in touch with. However, at my age, my hope is that He takes me early.
Truthfully, I think that you defend too much! It is not an issue of salvation. It is not beneficial to belabor the confusion.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100
You are right:) It's not an issue of salvation, but we have to ensure that we are also prepared for the possibility that a pre-trib may not happen.
Some are not even willing to contemplate the idea saying things like, God won't make me go through it, etc. Those are the things that will cause people to lose hope, lose faith if they do find themselves in the tribulation. What counts is that one keeps the faith no matter what happens.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim I disagree. After 2000 years with no rapture, many experiencing WWI & II, persecution and tribs and countless personal disasters, most still have hope & faith. A few more years and a few more intense tribs is no big deal. Those that will lose hope will be the lukewarm that Jesus will spew.The words most un-pretribbers use to demonize pre-trib rapture believers removes hope from many. Based on no more fact than pre-tribbers use.Read it your way, present your side.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
My friend, our hope is that whether we live or die, we will go to be with Christ upon his return.
That no matter what happens now or in the future, we have that hope and not even death can take it away. This is why we should not fear the future, nor what the devil may try to do because of this promise.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
One thing I found interesting is that when I read the bible I see three terms that nearly always appear together, those are:
1. The day of the Lord
2. The coming of the Lord
3. The gathering together of the saints upon his coming
as hard as we try to separate those events, the bible puts them together.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
as we watch the signs, we wait with anticipation of his return. The Lord gave us signs to watch for which ever more increases our excitement and hope that his return is close.
While mens hearts fail them, believers are renewed because they know what it all means and the conclusion of these matters. Not sure why you think not believing in a pre-trib removes a persons hope.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100
The hope is as it always was that when Christ returns, he'll take those who believe to be with him forever. That even those who have died will go.
The hope is not when it will happen so believing in a different time-line will not remove that blessed hope which is the glorious appearing of our great God and saviour jesus christ.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100 Harpazo, which means to be caught up or snatched away, does not refer to a secret escape. Messiah said in Matt 24: 29 " Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn...(con't)
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
@shiphrahhopeful There is NO secret to the escape. We are told time and again "to escape these things". And the meeting in the clouds is plainly laid b4 us.After the Big 'T'ribulation of those days, when it is ALL over, these things that you indicate will happen. The tribes (alive a/c followers) will mourn as they will then see Jesus' sign in the heavens as He descends to touch the earth. Yes! AFTER all Day of the Lord events - one of the first being the rapture.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
I definitely agree that the GT is going to happen soon. We can see the world stage being set for it.
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100
The rapture has never been imminent or rather could happen at any moment. The only thing imminent is that your next breathe may be your last and we could stand in his presence at any moment.
The reason I say it was not imminent, especially back then, is because he said what death peter would die. That showed at least that his return wouldh't happen until after that, removing the teaching of imminency.
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Lack of characters, my friend. I was gonna say "rapture or death". Are you always such a perfectionist on points with so little impact?Of course, that early in Christian / church / Believer history, the rapture was not an issue. There are indications that those that died pre- Christ / pre- church will be judged somewhat differently and may be those in the final ressurection.
hiyosilver100 4 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100
I would love to believe in a pre-trib rapture as I did for over 20 years, but given what the Lord has shown me in scripture, I find that it isn't as I first thought, as much as I wanted to believe it.
Paul himself states(2 Thess 2), in the same order as Jesus(mat 24), that before the coming and our gathering, the antichrist first had to be revealed. His return at the end of the tribulation occurs like a thief because the wicked aren't expecting it, but us..
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
we are not in darkness that that day should overtake us like a thief. We have been given signs, and he asks us to watch therefore for these things, and when you see them look up for your redemption draweth nigh.
As much as we want there to be a pre-tri rapture, and trust me, I wanted it as much as you, and believed it as strongly as you, the scriptures just don't support it.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
One thing I learned in my journey, is that whether it's big or small, all things matter. There is no such thing as "so little impact". Jesus stated he will send his angels to gather us at his coming. Again we read that the gathering occurs at the last trumpet. Again we read that it occurs after the antichrist is revealed.
Everything reveals that it's not pre-trib, and very bluntly as much to our displeasure.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Alright- gloves off! The Rapture imminency is ALWAYS there. You stand with few to say it has not. Read through the Bible again keeping ALL in context b4 you make comments that are designed to destroy the hope of new believers with your opinion.
Pay attention! There are TWO trumpets! One commencing the rapture in the clouds of the believers and ONE announcing the return of Jesus to set foot on earth. Read slowly, make notes as to eliminate your confusion.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim And what "the Lord has shown to me in scripture" contradicts what He has shown to you. You confuse the 2 events. The rapture part of the Day of the Lord does come as a thief. IF it came at the end, the timing would be very evident & the watchers would know. The a/c will be apparent shortly b4 the rapture and known after the rapture. Seems you are hung up on certain verses taken out of context. One verse does not negate another. Fit them all together.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100
since the disciples wouldn't live to see the tribulation upon this earth why were they told that they would be saved from the wrath to come and obtain salvation in christ? Wouldn't that be a moot point considering it wouldn't happen for 2000+ years?
These aren't trick questions. They are to purposely get people thinking about their understanding of things and whether or not they can really apply in that way.
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Then - as now - if ppl lived in a righteous manner thinking the rapture could be at any moment, they would have died 'In Christ' and would be taken whether they were dead or alive and, yes, be saved. Not 'moot' at all!They could not know that they would not live to see the rapture. And, everyone experiences tribulation (small 't') to some degree. The Big 'T'ribulation which is to come (shortly) will greatly surpass the death & destruction on the world during WWII.
hiyosilver100 4 weeks ago
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Great deception! Jesus Himself said, "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven..and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER His elect..."
shiphrahhopeful 4 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100
i noticed you didn't really answer. Are those believers subject to Gods wrath? Are they appointed to wrath despite finding salvation in Jesus?
Why are not believers subject to his wrath now? Because Jesus calmed the wrath of God through his death on the cross for all who believe regardless of when.
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim I answered,You did not understand.Unless protected supernaturally by God,EVERYONE on earth subject to earthly laws will undergo Wrath. Perhaps you can give a worldly explanation to have all new believers escape, say, a tsunami? IF the Trib Sts undergo the Wrath, perhaps they will believe stronger that God is in control and owns the earth. It is all unknown and to God's plan. My opinion (as yours) is worthless.
Trick questions are a waste of time and I won't play.
hiyosilver100 4 weeks ago
@levi0574
actually pre-trib only really came to light in the 1800's and is the most popular rapture theory out there. It spread like wild fire once it hit the scoffield bible. Its the theory that everyone even post tribbers would love to believe in. Out of all the rapture doctrines its the one that tickles the ears the most.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim I read thru the Bible and I, for one, don't need my ears tickled but I discerned Pre-trib on my own and it is the only timing that is fully supported by scripture as well as makes good common sense and logic when ALL verses are kept in context.
hiyosilver100 4 weeks ago
the pretrib rapture is false doctrine brought about in the 1820's, this is satans way of decieving even the elect. jesus said there will be a great falling away from the faith, and this will happen when the pretrib rapture does not happen. jesus said we will be hated and killed for his names sake by the anti christ. god will protect his people during the tribulation. people really need to get away from the false doctrine. they do not want to hear the truth.
whollish 1 month ago
@whollish Wow, Didn't Paul, Peter and other thousands of believers go through the same tribulation of being hated and killed for His name's sake? Were there no anti-Christs during that time? We pre-tribs look for the redemption because we have hope that He is going to appear and will redeem us. Post-trib faith is spreading like wild fire, just like He said the false doctrine will be prevalent in last days-perilous times.
levi0574 1 month ago
@levi0574 The post-tribbers somehow think it's "unfair" that we are going Home to be WITH the Lord while billions of people are going to "suffer". They don't seem to understand that we're almost at the End of the Book. I'm quite suprised that they aren't mad at God for letting Noah & his family stay in the Ark during their "Tribulation & Wrath of God". We're promised Rewards & Crowns (2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4) so we HAVE to be in Heaven to Receive them. No "sharp sword" for us!!
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 We will get Raptured before God pours out His wrath on the unbelievers. However, the Bible clearly states that we Christian's will be present when the AntiChrist arrives on the scene.
2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
CrackerJayherber 1 month ago
@CrackerJayherber Many Christians will be down here, but I won't be. Those Christians are NOT Faithful to the Lord. They will NOT be in the Rapture. Just as Jesus told the Believers, Saved Christians Revelation 3:10 - they will be kept from (out of) the trial & testing that is going to come upon the Whole World. Who comes back WITH Jesus?: Revelation 17:14. I'll be watching Jesus Christ be Crowned with His MANY Crowns, I am going to the Wedding & Supper. Matthew 25:1-13
JesusHoldMyHand1 4 weeks ago
@whollish Sorry,1Thes5:9For God hath not appointed us to wrath,but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,Rev3:10Bcause thou hast kept the word of my patience,I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation.Also-Rev2:10,Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer:bhold, the devil shall cast [some]of you into prison, that ye may be tried;*and ye shall have tribulation ten days*:be thou faithful unto death (as above ‘some’ is implied),and I will give thee a crown of life.
hiyosilver100 4 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100
God hath not appointed us to wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Awesome verse:) I wonder though. Do you not believe people become believers during the tribulation? If so, are they subject to God's wrath while at the same time obtaining salvation, getting both sides of the coin?
I thought the pre-trib was biblical, too, until I really examined the scriptures and realized that it simply wasn't there, despite fighting hard to keep believing it.
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Yes it is. Also:Rev3:10Bcause thou hast kept the word of my patience,I also will keep thee*from*(ek)the hour of temptation.Rev 2:10,Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer:behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried;*and ye shall have tribulation ten days*: be thou faithful unto death (as above ‘some’ is implied), and I will give thee a crown of life.
hiyosilver100 4 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Yes, new believers will be the Tribulation Saints and is fully addressed in scripture. Unless God supernaturally intervenes, everyone on earth would feel the effects of Wrath to some degree. Earthquakes, tsunamis, drought, floods, famine, etc, etc. The Trib Sts also have the added wrath of satan in the form of the a/c goon squads and not being able to buy or sell.
hiyosilver100 4 weeks ago
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"The wrath to come" is referring to the wrath of the Lamb-Jesus Christ when He returns in righteous indignation at the Last Trump. The signs that the Lord Yeshua told us to watch for are HERE NOW. We are not only to be watching, but carefully listening to the Holy Spirit, who will then direct our listening hearts to a safe place of refuge. America is not safe! It will soon become a total Nazi State, and will eventually be taken over by the Chinese.LISTEN TO HIS VOICE & PREPARE, FLEE & HIDE NOW.
shiphrahhopeful 1 month ago
@shiphrahhopeful Not everyone can flee and flee to where? The entire earth will be affected. This is not a localized condition satan is bringing about. The only way is to find and follow Jesus. Then address the situation as needs be. Whether pre-trib rapture or not, we need to be able to help ourselves and loved ones. True for surviving the Trib. or even if merely for normal natural disasters. We will be where we are supposed to be at the time.
hiyosilver100 4 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100 The "entire earth" was affected by the Great Flood in Noah's day too, but God made a way for Noah and his family to be protected and survive through it.
No one is removed from the world because of temptation; rather we are strengthened to withstand the temptation. We are promised God will put no more on us than we can bear...
shiphrahhopeful 4 weeks ago
@shiphrahhopeful Pls reference my other response regarding "your opinion".
hiyosilver100 4 weeks ago
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@hiyosilver100 ...It's not God's will to remove His people out of the world when evil comes. Jesus prayed, "I pray NOT that thou shouldest TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, but that thou shouldest KEEP THEM FROM the evil." John 17:15.
1 Cor. 10:13: "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
shiphrahhopeful 4 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100 The escape isn't a worldly escape, it is a promise that we will be able to bear what comes upon us. God has shown me that He will protect many of His children in remote locations during the Great Tribulation.The ones that He will protect are those who know His voice & live a sanctified (set apart) lifestyle.
There will be no rapture until THE LAST TRUMP,(see Matt.24:29-31 & 1Cor.16:52), so we'd better start asking Him for wisdom & direction now.
shiphrahhopeful 4 weeks ago
@shiphrahhopeful Merely your opinion. Seems that you misunderstand what you are reading in the scriptures. I have discerned and have found verification thru many learned men that provide Biblical proof of a pre-Trib rapture. Your opinion will not change my mind.
hiyosilver100 4 weeks ago
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Holding to a Pre-Tribulation rapture notion is drastically weakening the Church worldwide. The Church should be preparing for spiritual battle against the most evil forces arrayed by hell. Instead, the Church is lukewarm and languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by demonic powers in order to result in a limp army of believers, who will not endure til the end. In this age of laxity among Christians, it does not take much on the part of the dark powers to accomplish this goal
shiphrahhopeful 1 month ago
@shiphrahhopeful (I ignored this before).This is merely your opinion&does a disservice to new believers.Perry Stone,Grant Jeffries&many other deeply studied&broadcast men address this in clear videos WITH Biblical references.If u have an opposing viewpoint, provide line&verse or, better yet, a detailed series of videos.Otherwise, pls refrain from making such statements as if they are facts. *I* am by no means influenced by any form of demon which is what you emphatically imply.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
@hiyosilver100 You must be confusing me with someone else's comment. I gave clear Biblical references to you in the comments I made, and I never recall "emphatically implying that you are influenced by demons".????
Please go back and read over the scriptures references & comments that I gave you. Please make sure to double check whos comment it is that you are reading this time. Thank you.
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
@shiphrahhopeful I confuse you with no one. Here is a quote from YOUR comment (which someone has marked as 'spam'): "....the Church is lukewarm and languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by demonic powers in order to result in a limp army of believers...." YOUR implication is clear and strong. Ppl need to be wary of someone so intent and vociferous while providing NO scriptural references for their opinion. Bring your venom elsewhere.
hiyosilver100 3 weeks ago
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@hiyosilver100 Mark 13:24-27 "But in those days, AFTER THE TRIBULATION, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And THEN shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN."
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
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shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
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shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
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@hiyosilver100 1Thess.4:15,16 "WE WHICH ARE ALIVE & REMAIN unto the coming of the Lord...with the voice of the archangel AND TRUMP OF GOD... SHALL BE CAUGHT UP.."
Isaiah 27:13, "And it shall come to pass in THAT DAY,(The Day of the Lord), that the GREAT TRUMPET shall be blown...they shall come...and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem."
Zach.9:14"...the Lord God shall blow THE TRUMPET".
SAME EVENTS!
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
I need to get the message out concerning preparation for the soon coming Great Tribulation. We can be like Noah and heed God's warning, or perish. God will reveal safe locations to those who hear him clearly. As Noah, we are to hear God's voice today and prepare for the Great Tribulation that is soon to come. Major cities, as well as coastal areas, are destined for judgment. As soon as possible, Christians should relocate to more rural or remote places.
Judgment will soon come upon this land!
shiphrahhopeful 1 month ago
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shiphrahhopeful 1 month ago
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Hallo my brothers and sisters, i can highly advise you to listen to this teaching and ALL those believing in pre-tribulation, it's a catholic jesuit doctrine to deceive you. Don't be fooled. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture vs. The Post-Tribulation Rapture /watch?v=7hnD43OwCMw&list=PL5E3E52C315D8253D&index=1&feature=plpp_video
JudeOne3Four 1 month ago
I love you do you know that! Do you know that everything done outside of love is nothing! We are suppose to be family in the Lord. I apoligize ok! It doesn`t matter if I`m right or your wrong! All that matters is that we show the love of Christ. John said that Christ loved us and we should love the breathren. Please forgive me for my part in going on with this! We are the family of Christ and should not be showing the whole world this kind of division. So please forgive me!
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry Are you posting to me? If so, I love you, too, but you have to understand something. We have Saved, Born Again Christians LIVING in sin right this moment. There are Pastors preaching "another gospel", having sex with young boys & girls. Some are doing drugs, prostituting themselves, have left Christianity heading over to Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism (& all fake religions). They are stealing, lying, killing unborn babies; Jesus says REPENT
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
9 People are going to have loads of fun camping out waiting on their wrath
landriajennette 1 month ago
The one-world government is already beginning to exist. India is going to make all of its 1billion citizens receive a unique 12-digit number through this certain identification system called Foundation. That's about a sixth of the world's population. So keep watching because Jesus is coming for us very soon.
harrypotterification 1 month ago 2
Sir you are very confused! Anyways,I don`t serve God for rewards I serve him because I love him.He teaches the meek his word..And those that seek him with all their heart,soul,mind and strenth.Paul said 1 cor.8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything,he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.You circle around the point with your own veiws. My part in this is over since u refuse to give sound doctrine concerning the subject. You have a good one my friend!
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry You dont serve God for rewards BUT God will reward you for doing what your supposed to so.
JesusDiedforMe01 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done." Revelation 22:12 So you don't like what Jesus Himself says?? Rewards are mentioned many places: 1Corinthians 3:12-15; 2Corinthians 5:10; Colossians 3:24; 2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4; Revelation 2:10. Rewards are Jesus' special tokens of His Love for those who Love, Worship, Believe in Him. They are based upon ones FAITHFULNESS to Him - MARANATHA
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 I know in some weird way you think you are trying to help me. I know you are conviced that because I don`t believe your pre-trib rapture doctrine that I will loose my rewards.That is fine,If you want to believe that go ahead!To allege however, that I do not believe my bible and do not know my God is pride on your part. And I truely hope you repent of that! I forgive u. May God show u mercy as he has had on me! U have a good life! God will set in order all things when he comes!
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry I'm only telling you what the Bible says & what the Lord says. It's up to you whether you believe God's Word or not. I don't need to repent of anything you have said. You are the one who's REJECTING God's very word. I'm quite secure in my salvation with the Lord. Maybe after you read His Scripture over & over for the next 25 years, you also may understand. But now, you just don't. And if you're down here during the GT, I'm sure you'll know why.
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Look at what you wrote! And you don`t think your proud and decieved by pride? I will let God be my judge. The only thing I`m rejecting is your insanity! GO AWAY! LEAVE ME ALONE!
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry Because I know God's Word & you don't??? Wow!!! Talk about pride. You're full of it!!!
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
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@JesusHoldMyHand1 love you do you know that! Do you know that everything done outside of love is nothing! We are suppose to be family in the Lord. I apoligize ok! It doesn`t matter if I`m right or wrong! All that matters is that we show the love of Christ. John said that Christ loved us and we should love the breathren. Please forgive me for my part in going on with this! We are the family of Christ and should not be showing the whole world this kind of division. So please forgive me!
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
All my Brothers & Sisters in Christ, what a Majestic, Glorious, Fantastic Celebration will take place right after the Rapture. In Revelation 5:6 we see Jesus, Our Lord, looking like a Lamb that was slain. Our Christ, Our Redeemer, Our Almighty God is not wearing ANY Crowns....not yet. But in Rev 19:12 He returns at His 2nd Coming WEARING MANY CROWNS. WOW!! We are going to watch that Coronation in the Angelic Heavens then go to the Wedding Supper of the Lamb: Rev. 19:7-10 & return WITH Him!!
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
Guess im going to hell then.
Wouldn't bother me though. I've been persecuted my whole life both by demonic savages and self-righteous fk-tards. Yes fk-tards mean born again Christians. My idea of heaven would be
not being amongst 90% of people commenting on this video.
I welcome the tribulation. Will be icing on the cake for me. Blood, Chaos and Death. All the things Im use to in life. Now my holy than thou brethern don't go assuming things.
Someones going to yell Satanist but I dont care.
euroskeptic1 1 month ago
PS: The "Last Day" is NOT the last 24 hours. Those killed during the Great Tribulation are RESURRECTED only. They NEVER meet Christ "in the air". Revelation 20:4-6. Those who survive the Great Tribulation are "gathered" by Angels. They never meet Christ "in the air" either. Mark 13:27. They will be separated - Sheep/Goats - The Sheep go into to the Kingdom alive - The goats are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Matthew 25:31-46 Those Sheep are the ones who populate the Kingdom - the World.
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@thunderkat2012
and alot people prefer pre-trib because of their desire not to suffer. It tugs on the strings of the heart. If one could escape theyd take it.
People don't desire to stay because they don't want to leave..consider the option..perfect rest in heaven or ultimate torture here? One would be a fool to pick to stay, who wouldn't want to avoid it. i don't pick to stay because of some selfish desire but because bible says we aren't gathered till after.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
I believe a lot of christians like the post rapture idea because they don't really want to leave earth....very well done video BTW.
ThunderKat2012 1 month ago
Facts- The dead in christ rise 1st. THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up. Jesus said in John four times that all that are his he will raise THE LAST DAY. And Martha said it to Jesus 1 time in John that the resurection is the last day. In Luke it says,THE SAME DAY Lot was taken out of Sodom it rained fire & brimstone from heaven & as soon as Noe entered the ark the flood came. This is just plain out false doctrine being recieved by those who take the pastors word over the Bibles!
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry I'm not going to repeat everything I just said to "kepnjem" on this video, but I ask you the same questions, then I ask you - was Jesus ready to come back and set up His Kingdom during the days of Noah or Lot OR did He remove them from His JUDMENTS that came upon the evil, sinning world/cities? In Matthew 24:36-44 it should be quite plain that Jesus was talking about how His Judgments will fall: NO WARNING. Those "taken" are WITH Him. Better read more
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 #1.Jesus said it will be like the days of Noe & like the days of Lot who went through the flood & was not takin out of Sodom until the same day Gods judgement fell.#2.Nowhere does it say in 1 Thes.that Jesus is above the clouds.#3 A trumpet & a shout are not quiet evryone will hear and see Jesus when he comes.#4.The dead in Christ rise the last day & they rise first.#5.Just read from 1 Thes.4 unto 1 Thes 5:2.It clearly says he is talking about the Day of the Lord.Read 2Pet 3:10
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry You are denying the whole of the Gospel. We go through the clouds to meet Him in the air. Now, does that sound like He is on the Earth? He is ABOVE the clouds. "Trump of God" "Trumpet Call of God" is the VOICE of Jesus, not the Shout. Do you not understand the writing of the Lord? Do you kow the difference between a Reward & a Sword? Reward: Revelation 22:12; 2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4; Colossians 3:24. Sword, to KILL His enemies: Revelation 19:19 & 21
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 2 Tim 4:8 u quoted-says the crown is givin on that DAY to all that love his APPEARING.1 Peter 5:4 says the chief shepherd shall APPEAR.Just like it says EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM in Rev 1:7.And Rev 19:19-21 is at the end of the tribulation and the begining of his WRATH.As the Antichrist and false prophet are still on earth during the tribulation.Is.57:1-2 is the pre-trib rapture.Read Zeph.1:15 his wrath comes in one day.Those who are alive & REMAIN(Greek for remain is "SURVIVE")
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry That is the Rapture. There are NO REWARDS when Christ comes back with a Sharp Sword to KILL His Enemies. The 24 elders in Revelation 4:1-5 HAVE their Crowns. They get them WHEN Christ Appears at the Rapture. We get ours then, too. Revelation 2:10. You are not separating Rapture verses from the 2nd Coming verses. You've been taught wrongly & I'm trying to help you. We ALSO Judge the World & the Angels - 1Corinthians 6:2-3 & Jude 14-16.
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 The 420 elders are not the church.I was born again in a church and have been praise leader in two churches that taught the pre-trib rapture teaching.I saw that the teaching did not line up to the word of God.And is simply false teaching that wasn`t even taught untill around 1830.And was never taught by Jesus nor his disciples.U never will convince me of this false doctrine.And u are convinced of it.Nice takin with u brother! Please read from 1 thes 4 to 5:2 keep it in content.
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry Part #1 I don't know where you got 420 elders??? There are 24 elders = 12 Apostles (Matthew 19:28. Maybe you're thinking of the 70 elders who, with Moses, met Jesus Christ? Exodus 24:9-12. The other 12 elders in Revelation 4:1-5 are Prophets of Israel, the first "Preachers" of the Word of God. Paul taught about the Rapture in the 1st Century. It wasn't preached a lot after that, becasue the too many didn't understand prophecy.
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Rev 4:4 The elders.... Paul never taught the Pre-Trib Rapture He taught the catching away of the saints on the day of the lord after the dead in Christ rise first. Like I said. You have your mind made up and I believe the word of God. All that that u wrote about Israel being a nation and atom bomb and computers proves nothing about a pre-trib rapture.Show me the scriptures where paul taught it or any one else taught it?I will show u by the word how they are twisted to prove it!
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry So you don't believe your own Bible where Paul says he's getting his Crown & all who "long for the appearing of Christ" (paraphrased) in 2Timothy 4:8, also get theirs. Well, OK. I hope to meet you when Christ either "raises you from the dead" Revelation 20:4-6 or an Angel "gathers" you from where every you'll be hiding. Good Luck to you & be sure to keep your Bible close. Maybe you can help others who will be with you. Peace!
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 When did I say I don`t believe we get rewards? If u have sound biblical proof of the pre-trib rapture then show it. I will contend for the faith with u. But in the right spirit not with cut downs! If u want I will gather all the scripture God has revealed to me and u can do the same..And we will let the scripture prove the scripture. I have seen both sides of the coin and God has reaved to me his truth. And its God I only care about pleasing. Have a good day!
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry The ONLY time anyone gets Rewards is at the Rapture & since you won't be there, you'll get a "white robe" - Revelation 7:14. Those are the same Dead people in Revelation 20:4-6. No Judgment Seat of Christ, No Crowns. But you'll still get to be in the Kingdom, and you could count that as a "Reward".
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry Part #2 Israel had to be a Nation (1948). There had to be a way to be able to kill everyone on Earth, or no flesh would be saved (A-Bomb 1944). There had to be some way to "mark" every individual on the Earth (Scanners & Comptuers 1980s-2000s). There has to be the alignment of Nations that will be the Revived Roman Empire - NOW & STILL GROWING. There will be 1 World Government - 1 World Currency - 1 World Religion. These 3 will be fulfilled soon.
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry Maybe you should read the parable that Jesus gave us in Matthew 25:1-13. The 10 Virgins are Christians - The Bridegroom is Jesus Christ. Why do you think Christ shuts the door on the 5 Foolish Christians? (Revelation 4:1) No Wedding Banquet for the 5 Foolish. I just wonder if the 5 Foolish didn't do what He told them to do? Maybe they were out "living" their lives, doing what they wanted? Did they buy the oil like they were told? Were they READY? WATCH & BE READY
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
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There is no pre-trib rapture.The bible says we are not appointed to wrath. Not we are not appointed to tribulation. In fact it says that through much tribulation we must enter the Kingdom of God. Tribulation and wrath are not the same thing. The day of Gods wrath is the 2nd coming when a fire goes before him and the wicked are burned up.The tribulation is testing of all upon the earth.Parable of wheat and tares. The tares are reaped first & burned THEN the wheat gathered into the barn.
HumbleHeartMinistry 1 month ago
...Then after watching this eat your steak dinner, have a hot shower, get into a warm, cosy bed & dream of escaping the tribulation. While you're doing this, Christians the world over are in prison & persecuted for their faith. Type in "persecution" & see for yourselves! Then read John 11:24, 6:40, Daniel 12:13, 1 Thess 4:13-18. It's not gonna happen! God bless.
kepnjem 1 month ago
@kepnjem Do you know the difference between Rewards & a sharp Sword? Revelation 22:12; 2Timothy 4:8; 2Peter 5:4 - Revelation 19:15 . Do you know that Jesus is ABOVE the Clouds in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 & is hidden like Acts 1:9? Do you know tha Jesus' VOICE sounds like a Trumpet? Revelation 1:10 & 4:1 Do you know that the Great Tribulation starts when Jesus opens the Seals to HIS Judgments & Wrath? Revelation 6-19. His FAITHFUL followers with be WITH HIM. Revelation 17:14. PTL
JesusHoldMyHand1 1 month ago
Maybe Dec 21st just marks the end of the Mayan year. Still, the time period puts us on the same plane as the center of our Milkyway galaxy and as our axial tilt comes to center point with the Sun, and it with the galaxy, maybe we start speeding towards a magnetic reversal. That "flip" of direction of electrical energy could "flip" our spirits into "rapture" and join the universal spirit? Those holding on undergoing the tribulations of a pole shift, then?
tongmaa 2 months ago
If we all read John chapter 3,it also explains the difference of religious belief and how we must be Born again.Jesus said we must be Born again.
johnboh51 2 months ago
We must read the bible as well,because we all need to be educated on the knowledge of the Word of God,it is vital that we watch and pray until Jesus Christ returns.
johnboh51 2 months ago
This is explained very well,thank you for sharing this information,I believe that God could rapture His people at anytime,we must pray for the unbelievers more than ever,because if you look around the world,there wars and rumours of wars,earthquakes in diverse places and pestilence as well,we all need to be born again before the rapture.It will be a very sad day for those left behind,then it will be too late.
johnboh51 2 months ago
I quoted 1 Scripture wrong a few minutes ago. Crowns - 1Peter 5:4 (NOT 5:5)
JesusHoldMyHand1 2 months ago
Luke 17:37 tells where those are taken from the field, grinding & bed. I guess the 150 days Noah spent on the water must not count as part of the 1st end time or Lot outside the city hearing the screaming & watching his wife turn to a pillar of salt. All I want is one example of it not happening at the same time. All Jesus parables, wheat & tares, sheep & goats, 10 virgins or the rest, have Him returning 1 time to execute reward & judgement. Read all the parables. Peace2All
JimmyCarol100 2 months ago
Matthew 25:1-13 has NOTHING to do with a Jewish Wedding. I don't know where anyone can draw that analogy. The RAPTURE is an analogy of a Jewish Wedding. In Matthew, Jesus is talking about Christians who MISS the Rapture. This is a parable - it speaks of THE TRUTH...... WAKE-UP FOLKS. Many are going to go through the most horrific, slaughtering time in human history .... Straighten up, make yourselves "accepting" to the Lord, because if you're living in sin, you will NOT be in the Rapture!
JesusHoldMyHand1 2 months ago
"In Matthew, Jesus is talking about Christians who MISS the Rapture.Straighten up, make yourselves "accepting" to the Lord, because if you're living in sin, you will NOT be in the Rapture!"
No..you merely take Christs warning about luke warm Christians being judged along with the unbelievers at his 2nd coming,and twist it to fit the pre trib doctine.During the days of Noah when the door was closed judgement came swiftly afterwards.Gods 'judgement' is not part of the AC's persecution of saints.
richiefranklin76 2 months ago
@richiefranklin76 What???? You are WRONG. Those Lukewarm Christians, along with the other 4 Backsliding Churches WILL repent with the new converts during the Great Tribulation. They are SAVED/No Hell, but they're NOT living FOR Christ when He comes in the Rapture. Those Repentant Christians will either be "resurrected" Revelation 20:4-6 or "gathered" by Angels as in Mark 13:27. Sheep go into the Kingdom, Goats to Hell. Matthew 25:31-46. The Rapture is NOT the END.
JesusHoldMyHand1 2 months ago
Just because Paul says God hasn't appointed us to wrath doesn't mean we won't endure tribulation. Jesus said that we would and all that live godly in Christ Jesus will face persecution. It will test and try our faith.
34craigjan 2 months ago