Sometimes I feel that some of us may embrace religion because we feel some sense of inadequacies in such disciplines as scientific investigation. It perhaps expands the breadth of the meaning of "faith by convenience" (I can't recall the saying, verbatim). Still, as a Catholic by name, I ask why religion exist. Some conclusions: basic social needs, social order, some sense of purpose and fulfillment, make sense of our life and the universe, etc.
Well this was just incandescently enlightening and I enjoyed every minute of watching it! Such a big fan of Dawkins and his many works! I only wish I can meet him myself in the not too distant future. And anyone else spot the Pat Condell literature at the end on the desk? Another idol of mine!
the difference between teaching kids evolution and religion is simple. when you teach religion you say, here is whats true, because god said so, believe it or you will go to hell and suffer. teaching evolution is as follows (these are both basic ways of explaining how its taught mind you). here is how it happened, here is the evidence, here are books showing how it works. religion says heres what to believe and gives punishment to those who don't believe. kids dont believe cuz its true,
@bonkuraysan they believe because they are too scared not to, we wonder why these creationists don't look at evidence, when the answer is simple. they are told that if they do, that they will be punished.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong. but shouldn't the woman shut up. Like in this debate isn't she only to stear things into the more interresting stuff and pull the brake if things are starting to be more possible.
Cuz it seems to be 3 against 2. And that isn't an fair debate. since 2 need to listen to 3 opinions and are only aloud to say 2.
Besides that. I'm really enjoying these videos. It's deffeniatly* improving my english
@bboybram Why focus on her and then demand that she shut up? Simply because she is in the middle doesn't make her the mediator.
From a logical standpoint, it is impossible to debate a religious person on the merits of their religion anyway. "God exists because the bible said he exists, and the bible is true because God inspired it, and God exists because..." ad infinitum. Two people is all you need to represent identical arguments spewing from different faces.
It amuses me how the lady on the panel refers to "African-Americans" immediately following Richard Dawkins' detailed explanation of how we are all of African decent, and thus all African-Americans. Politically correct doesn't mean scientifically correct.
@SijanTower Following his logic, and his actual words, we are all technically Africans. However, to ignore the importance of the distinction between the more recent decedents of African peoples (African-Americans), and our collective ancestral ties, is to ignore the very premise of this discussion and the behavior of people towards their darker cousins.
As much as I wish race didn't matter, it clearly does in America.
@kurtilein3 u just told me im souless, stupid, and something like i was born from a tennis ball (i dont often read hate comments they make me sad for some reason) thanks a lot. im sorry to think theres such a lost soul in the world... wel, im prayin for ya!
@kurtelein3 u just told me im souless, im stupid, and something like i was born from a tennis ball (i dont often read hate comments they make me sad for some reason) thanks for making my day
Never viewed this vid before. Both Dr. Sikivu Hutchinson & Dr. Anthony Penn are awesome! Kudos...for providing this platform for discussion! #GodIsNotGreat, #MinorityAtheistsofMI
I really was enjoying the debate up until 40:00 where it was all just atheist ranting. Richard Dawkins being the 'yes man' and the crowd providing the fan fare. Oh but what could I expect when you see the richarddawkins(.)net in the description bar?
@DistortedV12 Dawkins answered a single question at 40min and you just stopped watching. Every other speaker talks at some point during the rest of the video and it's not focused on Dawkins.
i still say: you cant find faith and hope in a telescope, you wont find heart and soul in the stars.-the script. even if there is evolution, who put the first life on earth? and who put the universe here in general? what started it all? i doubt we evolved from air.
@artgirlization well, the way i see it, atheism says that you alone - don`t matter, but we all as a whole do. Atheist don`t go killing themselves for what they see ass truth (that`s rather selfish), scientist even thank people who can prove them wrong, we appriciate lives of ourselves and others. Atheism isn`t about hope, it`s about doing the best you can now so everyone would benefit from it later. (that`s sort of idealistic view, but i can dream, can`t i?..)
M-theory and string theory are untested, so they are not yet part of real physics. And unless these theories make testable predictions, they are worthless and contain no truth about reality.
Supersymmetry is also still speculative, but much closer to actually being tested, the LHC might tell us something about that.
What we really have is quantum mechanics, general relativity, and the standard model. And according to these, you are wrong.
Many atheists, scientists, and all skeptics, would say: I prefer not knowing over answers that might be wrong. But science knows some things for certain: We do know that noone put the first life on earth, it came into existence here, probarbly in the ocean near hot/vulcanic springs. And if you accept that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed but exist forever, and that time is what started with the big bang, it leads to some conclusions.
Also, faith is not a virtue but a weakness. Its childlike, all children have faith, extraordinary amounts of it (you can get a child of the right age to believe that he was created by transforming a tennis ball in a lab into a baby which turned into him, to the point that he believes it so much he tells others about it). Some people never fully grow out of it. And souls probarbly dont exist, we have a body, and mind/consciousness.
Please stop trying to act smarter then you are just because you comment on an academic video on youtube, the debates you have here doesn't matter and you don't matter either. So shut it and try to learn something instead. (specially those Dawkins wannabes paraphrasing all his ideas thats just sad)
@QBisbest A quarter of our population consists of people born overseas who emigrated to Australia. We are a very tolerant, layed-back and multicultural people. We had something called the "White Australia" policy before 1950, but that's ancient history. So no, we are not xenophobic!
I'm surprised that there are any black or female christians in this country to begin with, considering that women's suffrage and eguality of blacks were not enforced until very recently. Moreover, the human race has been here for at least 200,000 years, and even if it had only been here for 6,000 years, that still means it took that long for things to change. If the bible truly had eternal moral truths this would have been resolved long ago and yet...
I can't tell if the moderator is intentionally playing a stupid character in order to further the discussion as some sort of devil's advocate, or whether he is just an idiot.
The guy's question about why the USA is more technically advanced than Turkey despite the US being less secular could be explained by the fact that there are MORE PEOPLE. The fact that there are more people in general, no matter how small the percentage is of secularists in comparison to that of Turkey, there will still likely be more secularists in the USA because of the scale of the population.
@Hoganply - No. I don't think it's as simple as population. China and India, for example, have always had larger populations than the U.S. I think it was a combination of factors - resources and timing. We had a fresh new land, rich in resources plundered from agrarian and hunter/gatherer cultures at just the right time to benefit from a revolution in science, technology and immigration. We didn't mind compromising our puritan theology by swiping a few Jewish scientists during WWII, either.
Her point was basically 'theism allows us to learn from our mistakes from certain recorded events". Isn't that what 'history' does effectively enough?
I hope i'll be excused for the near spam-like content of my message.
Somewhat related to the topic discussed here: a Black Atheist rapper that i've come across on youtube recently (and that i'm not affiliated with in one way or another) that i think is worth checking out is called "Greydon Square".
Two favorite songs: "The Kardashev Scale" and "Stockholm Syndrome"
22:03 abolition and civil rights thanks to religion? haha i just love this, try checking out the religion of the pre civil rights KKK. The bible supports slavery.
19:40... god helped women? try again the bible is completely sexist as is the middle east. humans in america might have shown women compasion, reversed that trend and fought for womens rights.
@15:44 oh look, it's the "the prevailing view is that it's metaphor" excuse again. as soon as anything written in religious texts is proven wrong, they immediately hop on the metaphor bus. sorry believers, i don't care what color you are, you belong in the back of the bus.
@15:44 oh look, it's the "the prevailing view is that it's metaphor" excuse again. as soon as anything written in religious texts is proven wrong, they immediately hop on the metaphor bus. sorry believers, i don't care what color you are, you belong in the back of the bus.
I thought Werner Herzog was the moderator for a second there....I have always wondered why black people in America would ever have anything to do the bible, for what seems to me, obvious reasons.
When the guy is quoting jesus talking about "Slavery." I think that jesus was NOT being literal about it, but instead was referring to slavery as the human mind. As we are slaves to our minds, we will never realize our consciousness and thus the pain and suffering cycle will not end. The bible can't be taken literally, it has been translated so many times, who knows what it's meaning are. I only think he was talking about it that way, because from Sumerian texts, it says the same things...
I can explain why there isn't any fossils.... For apes and Chimps, but a lot of human fossils... It's because they are wrong... Apes and chimps spontaneously showed up less than 10,000 years ago... by a super wave we are about to experience again... Don't believe me? I don't either, yet, but that's what the evidence I've gathered says. Guess we will find in 2012... Im just documenting it HERE now, for proof. Just in case my theory is right...
You are wrong. The earth is only 4 minutes old, it only looks like it was made 4.5 billion years ago. But that is the way god made it to test us. The comment you made was not actually made by you but created and it only looks like it was made 12 hours ago. Your memories of making it are also created.
I'm still watching this, and I'm loving it. I just really hope that graduate student is playing Devil's advocate, and doesn't really believe the questions he's asking lol.
Cont...As though we are cogs in a spring driven clock, forced to rotate when told, unable to move by our own drive or go against the rythem of the other cogs. When war is refered too, it's said "without the development of weapons we wouldn't have the medical development we have today". I totally agree, because surely if we had focused on medical and agrocultural development with the increased time, effort and progressive exchange of ideas, we would have exceeded our medical knowledge 100 fold.
They say that if attrocities like the Holocaust, Slavery, Racism and Sexism had never happened we wouldn't have the current views or values to learn from, we wouldn't have risen against the stand point, like the pheonix rising from the ashes- which is to me is complete disregard for self-responsability and indiviual behaviour. Counting the indiviuals as a mass behind a name or a single figure head, concluding the blame to a single entity.
@46:46 The beatiful woman sitting to the left of the mic wearing glasses, looking intense & reflective is MY MOTHER! <3 I'm sitting next to her (off-camera, obscured by the quesitoner).
That day she renounced the slavemasters religion & fully embraced her humanity as a freethinking atheist.
Again...wrong. Human experiences, as you know, are not monolithic. Who are you or I, for that matter, to designate the grand varieties of human experiences as "gut" or "authentic" or "false", etc.? Criticize the theological discourse, but you can't discount human experience.
Theologians work to extrapolate those religious 'meanings' in the lives and thoughts of those who experience them. Now...I'm sure you and I define "religious" differently, but there are a whole host of ways to unpack the meaning and nature of religion--and religious experience therefore need not be limited to those with theistic belief. It seems that all of us wrestle with those 'who, what, when, where, why' questions (all of which point to what I mean by "religious")
Except I'm not talking about religious faith--I'm speaking of religious experience. And again, you can't state definitively that faith is the opposite of experience--because then you must ask, 'who's experience'. Perhaps yours, but not everyone's. That's why I speak of theology being critical reflection on religious experience--the experiences of those who promote a religious worldview.
"All religious faith only happens within the individual's mind."
Read the slave narratives; their religious faith seems to emerge via their inhumane circumstances (those effecting the body). This is why I said there are a variety of methodologies of unpacking religion and religiousity (theology, anthropology, philosophy). Its an error to claim "ALL religious faith..."--you're lumping all forms of religious belief into the same structure; that's a mistake, it seems (cont)
Well...perhaps to you (and myself at times lol), but the point is, as a theologian, I can't assume that the experience doesn't have some grand inherent meaning to the person or community who constructs their world around it. My job is to unpack it for meaning in a postmodern, 21st century context. No proselytizing--no preaching...Its an effort to explain how and why certain ideas allow a person to create meaning and order within an otherwise meaningless, chaotic existence.
And you say, "religious experiences are all imagined." That's pretty definitive, no? How can you substantiate this statement? Can you account for all that human beings have called 'religious'? Were you within the mind of every person of faith in the moment of his/her experience?
@dhills2009 do I have to? since deities are all imaginary, there is no need to evaluate what somebody claims to "experience" whatsoever.
all religion originally derives from the rejection of death as the end of life, and the subsequent worship of ancestors. over time all kinds of influences were ascribed to these ancestors and at one point the identity of the ancestors was forgotten. that's how gods were created.
so what's there to possibly experience? it's all imagined.
@TheSonsOfLight oh, you are so very convincing. and yet, deities are still all imagined. so now what? will you finally grow out of your superstitions? just as kids manage to grow out of the childish belief in the easter bunny and santa claus, you should manage to grow out of the infantile belief in any god(s).
@Meskiagkasher : seems your disdain for christianity & judeo religions has caused you & others to not deal with whats real. The God of the bible is not what we have been taught. However deities are not imagined. Neither are spirits. They are very real. Un like Jesus who no one has seen or heard from. Deities in African ,Asian 7 Native American religions are indeed real.No Santa Claus my friend. No superstition. Have you ever been to a Voodoo ceremony? lol
@Meskiagkasher stop thinking from a christian standpoint trying to define what spirituality is. What i Reason? Where did the word come from? What is Logic & where did the word come from. It comes from the very same religions & deities that you claim are imagined. First learn word history before you attempt to use certain words. Because Reason,Rational, & Logic are all ancient religious terms & concepts.
@Meskiagkasher : No you just arent educated on religious Theology & Mythology. if you were you would know that they come from the Greek Hermetic Laws which was taken from Egyptian Laws Of Maat & Tahuti. But this is way overyour head
Good debate, finaly learned something. I have wondered why homophobia have been strong in black communities, this historic and religous perspective made sense. A secular theologian makes more sense than a believer.
I'm somewhat bored of debates that always have "opponents" from both sides, I learn more from these types of debate.
@BigPapiKay The theological standpoint is based on bronze aged ideas.. Theology has nothing good to offer, and only holds us back from growing as human beings. I'm quoting a member who wrote this.
@BigPapiKay You said "Good discussion but since every panel member was an atheist/agnostic, i kinda feel like the theological standpoint really didn't have a fair defense."
Generally, invitations are sent to theolgians to attend these dialouges, but none ever accept. As an atheist, I would love to see a religious participate in one of these gatherings.
most blacks have kind of that gag reflex of not wanting to agree with anything the republican white racist's say--this is why limbaugh doesnt have any idiot, know nothing black fan bases--b/c of this most blacks are liberal and dont like Fox--not so much bc they distort everything and are just a horrible organization (but that helps) but b/c the constant race obsession etc...
They're going about this a little backwards. They know that they're right, but they're going after religious figures. However, if you want to help your cause, go after the lowest common denominator. For example, start a newspaper with logistical fact on why you are right if in fact you are right, or start a syndicated television program.
"The religion of the slavemaster lives on...:" this im sure will be a quote looked back on in years to come as a key point in the african american history
It's redressing to see racial harmony at work. Where I come from is a suburb of Detroit, USA and black/white hatred is so thick at times that you could cut it with a spoon.
So at the age of six she apparently she was intelligent and experienced enough to know the truth, and then Dawkins claps his hands like a typical idiot
Seriously dude? SERIOUS? Who cares if Darwin was racist. Who cares if Darwin had some personal vendetta against dark skinned people. That has no bearing on science and what he contributed through the scientific method. You keep building up this house of shit when it has no bearing on anything dude. His personal opinions were his personal opinions. Science is outside of the realm of personal prejudice and bias man. Darwin the asshole has no bearing on anything scientific.
This was great!
5ringswarrior 4 days ago
Bonobos ftw!
Mystro1989 6 days ago
2:45 it starts
Mystro1989 6 days ago
dawkins was interresting the rest were talking loads of giberish
MrJudas666666 3 weeks ago
Im runing out of dawkings material:(
JuusiksiCommentary 3 weeks ago in playlist Lisää videoita käyttäjältä richarddawkinsdotnet
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huwrj 3 weeks ago
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huwrj 3 weeks ago
I got the feeling that it was 4 against 1 here
TwelfthRoot2 3 weeks ago
Sometimes I feel that some of us may embrace religion because we feel some sense of inadequacies in such disciplines as scientific investigation. It perhaps expands the breadth of the meaning of "faith by convenience" (I can't recall the saying, verbatim). Still, as a Catholic by name, I ask why religion exist. Some conclusions: basic social needs, social order, some sense of purpose and fulfillment, make sense of our life and the universe, etc.
soulinthewall77 1 month ago in playlist More videos from richarddawkinsdotnet
Well this was just incandescently enlightening and I enjoyed every minute of watching it! Such a big fan of Dawkins and his many works! I only wish I can meet him myself in the not too distant future. And anyone else spot the Pat Condell literature at the end on the desk? Another idol of mine!
TheVarsh86 1 month ago
11:23 priceless
Pwn777 1 month ago
the difference between teaching kids evolution and religion is simple. when you teach religion you say, here is whats true, because god said so, believe it or you will go to hell and suffer. teaching evolution is as follows (these are both basic ways of explaining how its taught mind you). here is how it happened, here is the evidence, here are books showing how it works. religion says heres what to believe and gives punishment to those who don't believe. kids dont believe cuz its true,
bonkuraysan 1 month ago
@bonkuraysan they believe because they are too scared not to, we wonder why these creationists don't look at evidence, when the answer is simple. they are told that if they do, that they will be punished.
bonkuraysan 1 month ago
Please, correct me if I'm wrong. but shouldn't the woman shut up. Like in this debate isn't she only to stear things into the more interresting stuff and pull the brake if things are starting to be more possible.
Cuz it seems to be 3 against 2. And that isn't an fair debate. since 2 need to listen to 3 opinions and are only aloud to say 2.
Besides that. I'm really enjoying these videos. It's deffeniatly* improving my english
bboybram 1 month ago
@bboybram this isn't really a debate. It's a discussion/conversation.
hardinmichael1981 1 month ago
@bboybram Why focus on her and then demand that she shut up? Simply because she is in the middle doesn't make her the mediator.
From a logical standpoint, it is impossible to debate a religious person on the merits of their religion anyway. "God exists because the bible said he exists, and the bible is true because God inspired it, and God exists because..." ad infinitum. Two people is all you need to represent identical arguments spewing from different faces.
BrownAtheist 1 week ago
1:06:36*
SideThis 1 month ago
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huwrj 3 weeks ago
1:08:36 the denied handshake
SideThis 1 month ago
It amuses me how the lady on the panel refers to "African-Americans" immediately following Richard Dawkins' detailed explanation of how we are all of African decent, and thus all African-Americans. Politically correct doesn't mean scientifically correct.
SijanTower 1 month ago
@SijanTower Following his logic, and his actual words, we are all technically Africans. However, to ignore the importance of the distinction between the more recent decedents of African peoples (African-Americans), and our collective ancestral ties, is to ignore the very premise of this discussion and the behavior of people towards their darker cousins.
As much as I wish race didn't matter, it clearly does in America.
BrownAtheist 1 week ago
Very interesting debate thanks for sharing.
Kalydosos 2 months ago
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jtalfredo22 2 months ago
@kurtilein3 u just told me im souless, stupid, and something like i was born from a tennis ball (i dont often read hate comments they make me sad for some reason) thanks a lot. im sorry to think theres such a lost soul in the world... wel, im prayin for ya!
artgirlization 2 months ago
@kurtelein3 u just told me im souless, im stupid, and something like i was born from a tennis ball (i dont often read hate comments they make me sad for some reason) thanks for making my day
artgirlization 2 months ago
SCIENCEEEEE :D <3
Malsiaime 2 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
<<BlackAtheist
Never viewed this vid before. Both Dr. Sikivu Hutchinson & Dr. Anthony Penn are awesome! Kudos...for providing this platform for discussion! #GodIsNotGreat, #MinorityAtheistsofMI
beautifulblackatheis 2 months ago in playlist More videos from richarddawkinsdotnet
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beautifulblackatheis 2 months ago in playlist More videos from richarddawkinsdotnet
I really was enjoying the debate up until 40:00 where it was all just atheist ranting. Richard Dawkins being the 'yes man' and the crowd providing the fan fare. Oh but what could I expect when you see the richarddawkins(.)net in the description bar?
DistortedV12 2 months ago
@DistortedV12 Dawkins answered a single question at 40min and you just stopped watching. Every other speaker talks at some point during the rest of the video and it's not focused on Dawkins.
Str4ng3F0lk 2 months ago
That lady used all the big words in the dictionary .. gosh my head is hurting.. I prefer Dawkins :)
BeckaMorena 2 months ago
i still say: you cant find faith and hope in a telescope, you wont find heart and soul in the stars.-the script. even if there is evolution, who put the first life on earth? and who put the universe here in general? what started it all? i doubt we evolved from air.
artgirlization 2 months ago
@artgirlization well, the way i see it, atheism says that you alone - don`t matter, but we all as a whole do. Atheist don`t go killing themselves for what they see ass truth (that`s rather selfish), scientist even thank people who can prove them wrong, we appriciate lives of ourselves and others. Atheism isn`t about hope, it`s about doing the best you can now so everyone would benefit from it later. (that`s sort of idealistic view, but i can dream, can`t i?..)
coldray5 2 months ago
@artgirlization Also, please reply, i`d like to hear more ideas then my own, thak you :)
coldray5 2 months ago
@artgirlization something can exist out of nothing :)
check out M-theory!!!
AtheistBelgium 2 months ago 3
@AtheistBelgium
M-theory and string theory are untested, so they are not yet part of real physics. And unless these theories make testable predictions, they are worthless and contain no truth about reality.
Supersymmetry is also still speculative, but much closer to actually being tested, the LHC might tell us something about that.
What we really have is quantum mechanics, general relativity, and the standard model. And according to these, you are wrong.
kurtilein3 2 months ago
@artgirlization
Many atheists, scientists, and all skeptics, would say: I prefer not knowing over answers that might be wrong. But science knows some things for certain: We do know that noone put the first life on earth, it came into existence here, probarbly in the ocean near hot/vulcanic springs. And if you accept that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed but exist forever, and that time is what started with the big bang, it leads to some conclusions.
kurtilein3 2 months ago
@artgirlization
Also, faith is not a virtue but a weakness. Its childlike, all children have faith, extraordinary amounts of it (you can get a child of the right age to believe that he was created by transforming a tennis ball in a lab into a baby which turned into him, to the point that he believes it so much he tells others about it). Some people never fully grow out of it. And souls probarbly dont exist, we have a body, and mind/consciousness.
kurtilein3 2 months ago
@michaelchristopherj BONK! Count me in dude!
godfreewoman 2 months ago
She has a low voice... Also, Dawkins is a boss.
SnakySteyn 2 months ago
I useto believe in god, and then I took an arrow to the leg.
overether 2 months ago
@overether Knee
HangMeThenLoveMe 2 months ago
@HangMeThenLoveMe femur*
overether 2 months ago
@overether *used to
TonneofAsh 2 months ago
@TonneofAsh lol
overether 2 months ago
@overether you fail, its then I took an arrow to the knee..
wenom12345 2 months ago
@wenom12345 I win, I went with femur, for the win.
overether 2 months ago
10:56 Full of win.
eggroll9000 3 months ago
Please stop trying to act smarter then you are just because you comment on an academic video on youtube, the debates you have here doesn't matter and you don't matter either. So shut it and try to learn something instead. (specially those Dawkins wannabes paraphrasing all his ideas thats just sad)
Jonayofsweden 3 months ago
@53:30 dumbfuck.
jhNNNNNNNy 3 months ago
the KKK, bro...
the KKK...
paunocu666 3 months ago
alien athiest here....
Kingtunice 3 months ago 2
As a Black Atheist struggling with his identity I loved this discussion. Kudos to the whole panel.
Khemist82 3 months ago 7
@Khemist82 Come to Australia :-)
Mandragara 3 months ago
@Mandragara Aren't you guys xenophobic?
QBisbest 3 months ago
@QBisbest A quarter of our population consists of people born overseas who emigrated to Australia. We are a very tolerant, layed-back and multicultural people. We had something called the "White Australia" policy before 1950, but that's ancient history. So no, we are not xenophobic!
Mandragara 3 months ago
@michaelchristopherj...oh shit. I'm not alone. Thumbs up lol
Juniversal 3 months ago
I'm surprised that there are any black or female christians in this country to begin with, considering that women's suffrage and eguality of blacks were not enforced until very recently. Moreover, the human race has been here for at least 200,000 years, and even if it had only been here for 6,000 years, that still means it took that long for things to change. If the bible truly had eternal moral truths this would have been resolved long ago and yet...
VincitOmniaVerit 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I can't tell if the moderator is intentionally playing a stupid character in order to further the discussion as some sort of devil's advocate, or whether he is just an idiot.
NowKillTheKing 4 months ago
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NowKillTheKing 4 months ago
chimpanzee he.. OOH IS THAT A BANANA??
JagjeetMann 4 months ago
@JagjeetMann where?
dumbnetworks 4 months ago
White supremacist atheist here
RichoRosai 4 months ago
@RichoRosai A white supremacist on a video that pertains to blacks? How peculiar.
QBisbest 4 months ago
...White atheist here.
Beandude202 4 months ago
The guy's question about why the USA is more technically advanced than Turkey despite the US being less secular could be explained by the fact that there are MORE PEOPLE. The fact that there are more people in general, no matter how small the percentage is of secularists in comparison to that of Turkey, there will still likely be more secularists in the USA because of the scale of the population.
Hoganply 5 months ago
@Hoganply - No. I don't think it's as simple as population. China and India, for example, have always had larger populations than the U.S. I think it was a combination of factors - resources and timing. We had a fresh new land, rich in resources plundered from agrarian and hunter/gatherer cultures at just the right time to benefit from a revolution in science, technology and immigration. We didn't mind compromising our puritan theology by swiping a few Jewish scientists during WWII, either.
47f0 4 months ago
Her point was basically 'theism allows us to learn from our mistakes from certain recorded events". Isn't that what 'history' does effectively enough?
Hoganply 5 months ago
I hope i'll be excused for the near spam-like content of my message.
Somewhat related to the topic discussed here: a Black Atheist rapper that i've come across on youtube recently (and that i'm not affiliated with in one way or another) that i think is worth checking out is called "Greydon Square".
Two favorite songs: "The Kardashev Scale" and "Stockholm Syndrome"
Please forgive me for my sins. Thanks.
541515141741952 5 months ago
22:03 abolition and civil rights thanks to religion? haha i just love this, try checking out the religion of the pre civil rights KKK. The bible supports slavery.
cycophile 5 months ago 2
19:40... god helped women? try again the bible is completely sexist as is the middle east. humans in america might have shown women compasion, reversed that trend and fought for womens rights.
cycophile 5 months ago 2
i love dawkins fast claps in this
ThanksDoctorThoctor 5 months ago
@15:44 oh look, it's the "the prevailing view is that it's metaphor" excuse again. as soon as anything written in religious texts is proven wrong, they immediately hop on the metaphor bus. sorry believers, i don't care what color you are, you belong in the back of the bus.
bl8ant 5 months ago
@15:44 oh look, it's the "the prevailing view is that it's metaphor" excuse again. as soon as anything written in religious texts is proven wrong, they immediately hop on the metaphor bus. sorry believers, i don't care what color you are, you belong in the back of the bus.
bl8ant 5 months ago
@bl8ant BONK! I'm on board. I will be sitting @ the front with you. LOL!
godfreewoman 2 months ago
Asian Atheist right here. nothing to do with race or ethnic.
Kr4zi4ur0mg 5 months ago
@Kr4zi4ur0mg Too right!
ThanksDoctorThoctor 5 months ago
I thought Werner Herzog was the moderator for a second there....I have always wondered why black people in America would ever have anything to do the bible, for what seems to me, obvious reasons.
NoFearOfGod 5 months ago 2
I wish the Secular Student Alliance at my college could have managed something like this!
DamienZshadow 5 months ago
great panel, horrible mediator- who was this german dude interrupting everyone?
bjhanish 5 months ago
When the guy is quoting jesus talking about "Slavery." I think that jesus was NOT being literal about it, but instead was referring to slavery as the human mind. As we are slaves to our minds, we will never realize our consciousness and thus the pain and suffering cycle will not end. The bible can't be taken literally, it has been translated so many times, who knows what it's meaning are. I only think he was talking about it that way, because from Sumerian texts, it says the same things...
kcirtap79212 5 months ago
I can explain why there isn't any fossils.... For apes and Chimps, but a lot of human fossils... It's because they are wrong... Apes and chimps spontaneously showed up less than 10,000 years ago... by a super wave we are about to experience again... Don't believe me? I don't either, yet, but that's what the evidence I've gathered says. Guess we will find in 2012... Im just documenting it HERE now, for proof. Just in case my theory is right...
kcirtap79212 5 months ago
@kcirtap79212
You are wrong. The earth is only 4 minutes old, it only looks like it was made 4.5 billion years ago. But that is the way god made it to test us. The comment you made was not actually made by you but created and it only looks like it was made 12 hours ago. Your memories of making it are also created.
Elu112 5 months ago
The more dabates i watch, the more athiest i become and i thought i was at my limit already.
Hectom8 5 months ago 2
@Hectom8 You know what me more athiest than anything? The bible
Nickdiaublow 5 months ago
@Nickdiaublow Oh yeah. I didnt even have to read all of it to become athiest. The bible is a ridiculous astronomy book lmao.
Hectom8 5 months ago
science has proven racism wrong, religion has perpetuated it; the Jewish race
Typhoonbladefist 6 months ago
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science has proven racism wrong, religion has perpetuated it (the Jewish race)
Typhoonbladefist 6 months ago
science has proven racism wrong, religion has perpetuated it (the Jewish race)
Typhoonbladefist 6 months ago
science has proven racism wrong, religion has perpetuated it (the Jewish race)
Typhoonbladefist 6 months ago
I'm still watching this, and I'm loving it. I just really hope that graduate student is playing Devil's advocate, and doesn't really believe the questions he's asking lol.
Kith000 6 months ago
I assume Neal Degrasse Tyson couldn't make it to this discussion
kpunk 6 months ago
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Richard Dawkins has gone off the rails:
search for Richard Dawkins and male privilege on Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy blog.
Participating in flaming a woman because she dares to say 'don't objectify me at a conference'? Poorly done, Dawkins.
8yankee 6 months ago
Cont...As though we are cogs in a spring driven clock, forced to rotate when told, unable to move by our own drive or go against the rythem of the other cogs. When war is refered too, it's said "without the development of weapons we wouldn't have the medical development we have today". I totally agree, because surely if we had focused on medical and agrocultural development with the increased time, effort and progressive exchange of ideas, we would have exceeded our medical knowledge 100 fold.
Simwillb 6 months ago
They say that if attrocities like the Holocaust, Slavery, Racism and Sexism had never happened we wouldn't have the current views or values to learn from, we wouldn't have risen against the stand point, like the pheonix rising from the ashes- which is to me is complete disregard for self-responsability and indiviual behaviour. Counting the indiviuals as a mass behind a name or a single figure head, concluding the blame to a single entity.
Simwillb 6 months ago
@rmeddy1
Word. That's my advisor!
dhills2009 6 months ago
42:45 Microscopes LOL
irefusetodisco 6 months ago
we need MOAR BLACK ATHEISTS lol... But seriously though... Because these religious nutjobs are killing this country.
whoozthaboss 6 months ago
Shit!...I'm now calling myself White African!
bermudaguy1 6 months ago
Sitivu hutchinson is a role model for everyone regardless of race or gender.
1empathy 6 months ago
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@46:46 The beatiful woman sitting to the left of the mic wearing glasses, looking intense & reflective is MY MOTHER! <3 I'm sitting next to her (off-camera, obscured by the quesitoner).
That day she renounced the slavemasters religion & fully embraced her humanity as a freethinking atheist.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE BEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!
EntinludeX 7 months ago
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EntinludeX 7 months ago
@ImGladImBrad dark joke, sry to spoil your trap.
mikerozo 7 months ago
@ImGladImBrad what do you mean ? maybe cuz they still live in AFRICA !? -.-
mikerozo 7 months ago
Am I the only one who wants to bone her?
madmallard11 7 months ago
@madmallard11 0:43:14 ?
mikerozo 7 months ago
@madmallard11 yes.
whoozthaboss 6 months ago
Thank you for uploading this GREAT conversation!
ricardofuego 7 months ago
lol that interviewer had some pretty worthless questions
JuanchoMan 7 months ago
Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 7 months ago
@youneekk lmao,
treasuredroperX 6 months ago
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ThanksDoctorThoctor 7 months ago
I was going to say that's an oxymoron, just to be a troll, but then she opened her mouth and I couldn't bring myself to do it.
SonOfNye 7 months ago
'Uniform species' - just say it, humans are inbred's
Geokeish 7 months ago
this video is very informative, and i don't wanna ruin it, but for the sake of some lols pause the video and look around the picture at 47:56
i paused it for a bio break, and when i came back i lold ^_^
qpSubZeroqp 7 months ago
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qpSubZeroqp 7 months ago
Great insights, based on this discussion it would seem that there is great potential for blacks to break away from religion!!!!
drstrangelove09 8 months ago
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drstrangelove09 8 months ago
theology is the study of manipulating people to give you money
Narajah 8 months ago
@Narajah
Wrong. Theology is critical reflection on religious experience. Dr. Anthony Pinn is my advisor; I'm a doctoral student in religious studies at Rice.
dhills2009 6 months ago
@dhills2009 religious experience? you mean some gut feeling that is detached from reality?
Meskiagkasher 6 months ago
@Meskiagkasher
Again...wrong. Human experiences, as you know, are not monolithic. Who are you or I, for that matter, to designate the grand varieties of human experiences as "gut" or "authentic" or "false", etc.? Criticize the theological discourse, but you can't discount human experience.
dhills2009 6 months ago
@dhills2009 I can discount human "experience" that involves anything supernatural, because that is only imagined experience.
Meskiagkasher 3 months ago
Theologians work to extrapolate those religious 'meanings' in the lives and thoughts of those who experience them. Now...I'm sure you and I define "religious" differently, but there are a whole host of ways to unpack the meaning and nature of religion--and religious experience therefore need not be limited to those with theistic belief. It seems that all of us wrestle with those 'who, what, when, where, why' questions (all of which point to what I mean by "religious")
dhills2009 6 months ago
See Dr. Pinn's "Terror and Triumph: The Nature of Black Religion"
dhills2009 6 months ago
@dhills2009 I don't need to. All religious faith only happens within the individual's mind. Faith is the opposite of experience and of reason.
Meskiagkasher 6 months ago
@Meskiagkasher
Except I'm not talking about religious faith--I'm speaking of religious experience. And again, you can't state definitively that faith is the opposite of experience--because then you must ask, 'who's experience'. Perhaps yours, but not everyone's. That's why I speak of theology being critical reflection on religious experience--the experiences of those who promote a religious worldview.
dhills2009 6 months ago
@Meskiagkasher
"All religious faith only happens within the individual's mind."
Read the slave narratives; their religious faith seems to emerge via their inhumane circumstances (those effecting the body). This is why I said there are a variety of methodologies of unpacking religion and religiousity (theology, anthropology, philosophy). Its an error to claim "ALL religious faith..."--you're lumping all forms of religious belief into the same structure; that's a mistake, it seems (cont)
dhills2009 6 months ago
@Meskiagkasher
A mistake because experience is fluid and always varies.
dhills2009 6 months ago
@dhills2009 No. Religious experiences are all imagined. That is the mistake.
Meskiagkasher 6 months ago
@Meskiagkasher
Well...perhaps to you (and myself at times lol), but the point is, as a theologian, I can't assume that the experience doesn't have some grand inherent meaning to the person or community who constructs their world around it. My job is to unpack it for meaning in a postmodern, 21st century context. No proselytizing--no preaching...Its an effort to explain how and why certain ideas allow a person to create meaning and order within an otherwise meaningless, chaotic existence.
dhills2009 6 months ago
@Meskiagkasher
And you say, "religious experiences are all imagined." That's pretty definitive, no? How can you substantiate this statement? Can you account for all that human beings have called 'religious'? Were you within the mind of every person of faith in the moment of his/her experience?
dhills2009 6 months ago
@dhills2009 do I have to? since deities are all imaginary, there is no need to evaluate what somebody claims to "experience" whatsoever.
all religion originally derives from the rejection of death as the end of life, and the subsequent worship of ancestors. over time all kinds of influences were ascribed to these ancestors and at one point the identity of the ancestors was forgotten. that's how gods were created.
so what's there to possibly experience? it's all imagined.
Meskiagkasher 6 months ago
@Meskiagkasher :You seem very intelligent.But thats so not true.
TheSonsOfLight 6 months ago
@TheSonsOfLight oh, you are so very convincing. and yet, deities are still all imagined. so now what? will you finally grow out of your superstitions? just as kids manage to grow out of the childish belief in the easter bunny and santa claus, you should manage to grow out of the infantile belief in any god(s).
Meskiagkasher 6 months ago
@Meskiagkasher : seems your disdain for christianity & judeo religions has caused you & others to not deal with whats real. The God of the bible is not what we have been taught. However deities are not imagined. Neither are spirits. They are very real. Un like Jesus who no one has seen or heard from. Deities in African ,Asian 7 Native American religions are indeed real.No Santa Claus my friend. No superstition. Have you ever been to a Voodoo ceremony? lol
TheSonsOfLight 6 months ago
@dhills2009 its far more probable, and agreeable to Science, to assume they were gullable. Man is gullable, fact.
LutzDerLurch 6 months ago
@Meskiagkasher stop thinking from a christian standpoint trying to define what spirituality is. What i Reason? Where did the word come from? What is Logic & where did the word come from. It comes from the very same religions & deities that you claim are imagined. First learn word history before you attempt to use certain words. Because Reason,Rational, & Logic are all ancient religious terms & concepts.
TheSonsOfLight 6 months ago
@TheSonsOfLight they are not terms of religion any more. you seem to have missed what went on in philosophy of the 18th and 19th centuries.
and religion is reality-denial. period.
Meskiagkasher 5 months ago
@Meskiagkasher : No you just arent educated on religious Theology & Mythology. if you were you would know that they come from the Greek Hermetic Laws which was taken from Egyptian Laws Of Maat & Tahuti. But this is way overyour head
TheSonsOfLight 3 months ago
Good debate, finaly learned something. I have wondered why homophobia have been strong in black communities, this historic and religous perspective made sense. A secular theologian makes more sense than a believer.
I'm somewhat bored of debates that always have "opponents" from both sides, I learn more from these types of debate.
VogonJ 8 months ago
Good discussion but since every panel member was an atheist/agnostic, i kinda feel like the theological standpoint really didn't have a fair defense.
BigPapiKay 8 months ago
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@BigPapiKay The theological standpoint is based on bronze aged ideas.. Theology has nothing good to offer, and only holds us back from growing as human beings. I'm quoting a member who wrote this.
"The religion of the slavemaster lives on...:"
Too freaking right. Time to end it.
EddieSchultz62 7 months ago
@BigPapiKay You said "Good discussion but since every panel member was an atheist/agnostic, i kinda feel like the theological standpoint really didn't have a fair defense."
Generally, invitations are sent to theolgians to attend these dialouges, but none ever accept. As an atheist, I would love to see a religious participate in one of these gatherings.
Haywerth 7 months ago 2
most blacks have kind of that gag reflex of not wanting to agree with anything the republican white racist's say--this is why limbaugh doesnt have any idiot, know nothing black fan bases--b/c of this most blacks are liberal and dont like Fox--not so much bc they distort everything and are just a horrible organization (but that helps) but b/c the constant race obsession etc...
pawndominance1 8 months ago
@pawndominance1 Um....looking at the black community's view on gays and religion, liberal is the wrong term.
HybridD91 8 months ago 2
@HybridD91 :Indeed.
MrDestructionAddict 4 months ago
Black Agnostic right here
yendorification 8 months ago 41
@yendorification Same here. Dealing with religious (fundamentally) family can be a pain xD.
saxoman1 6 months ago
@yendorification thumbs up my friend
Hectom8 5 months ago
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@yendorification
"Black Agnostic right here"
You look like black letters on a white background to me.
MomoTheBellyDancer 5 months ago
@yendorification Yay to you.
WolfySnackrib666 5 months ago
Intelligent people ... Intelligent discussion! Peace
VekinHighwalker 8 months ago
Really looking forward to watching this.
TheDestroyer9090 8 months ago
They're going about this a little backwards. They know that they're right, but they're going after religious figures. However, if you want to help your cause, go after the lowest common denominator. For example, start a newspaper with logistical fact on why you are right if in fact you are right, or start a syndicated television program.
BillWilliamsonSr 8 months ago
In Leviticus 25:42 God calls all of humanity his slaves "whom [he] brought out of Egypt." XD We're all god's slaves apparently
ojoreakatheoj 8 months ago
in what City/State did this take place?
ketturuut 8 months ago
@ketturuut Howard University, Washington D.C.
MewCat100 8 months ago
Derek Fisher's right!
kwasibaah 8 months ago
"The religion of the slavemaster lives on...:" this im sure will be a quote looked back on in years to come as a key point in the african american history
louiscfc93 9 months ago
I meant refreshing. Stupid iPhone autocorrect.
omgcheez 9 months ago
It's redressing to see racial harmony at work. Where I come from is a suburb of Detroit, USA and black/white hatred is so thick at times that you could cut it with a spoon.
omgcheez 9 months ago
52:16
So at the age of six she apparently she was intelligent and experienced enough to know the truth, and then Dawkins claps his hands like a typical idiot
stretch90 9 months ago
is the black guy on the far right not an atheist?
stretch90 9 months ago
@stretch90 i can't tell either...
buktomsin 9 months ago
@ rollinglibs101
Seriously dude? SERIOUS? Who cares if Darwin was racist. Who cares if Darwin had some personal vendetta against dark skinned people. That has no bearing on science and what he contributed through the scientific method. You keep building up this house of shit when it has no bearing on anything dude. His personal opinions were his personal opinions. Science is outside of the realm of personal prejudice and bias man. Darwin the asshole has no bearing on anything scientific.
youngs1ncere 9 months ago