James Ellroy and Bruce Wagner on Bukowski

[dionisis1979preveza]

M A L A K A

[CrazedAfroninja]

I think Ellroy is just trying to encourage Wagner's ridiculousness. Ellroy has always been an incredible and hilarious IRL troll.

[adrianvino]

Bruce Wagner? ....is that Ellroy's stunt cock?

[adrianvino]

i love Ellroy, but anybody who calls Bukowski a misogynist, obviously didn't take the time to actually read his material. He wrote a novel called Women. That's like me writing a whole novel on writing: i wrote the novel on writing because i hate writing.

Pay attention, American Dog, wisdom can be served on many platters, sliced and diced, but a fool has already tasted it all.

[parsec9]

Of any profession, writers are most jealous of each others' successes. These guys hate to think that Bukowski's works will live on for generations while their notoriety is threadbare during their own lifetimes.

By the way, Ellroy, Bukowski is a misanthrope, not a misogynist...

[Charlesfish]

Ellroy would be so fucking amused to see people react the way most of the commenters here have. Of course he doesn't know how to use a computer so he never will but the point remains. The guy hates popular culture and loves to fuck with people who love it.

[tennessee888]

I actually like Ellroy and think he's just fucking around. I ve never heard of the dude with the massive glasses and think he should just shut the fuck up and let Ellroy speak a bit more.

[puddnheadstobed]

ELLROY MAKIN THAT DUCKFACE.

[stankerpooch]

these geezers are all tumbled up in faggotry

[zoobly3]

Jesus, Ellroy old boy, you shouldn't be so pissed, you can't write, that's all.

[adrianvino]

@zoobly3 ha

[CastleRockFan]

I think it's safe to assume that Ellroy has been spewing just a constant stream of bullshit since the mid-seventies. He's always fucking with people, and this is just another example.

Ellroy is great. Bukowski is great.

[BrokenBard]

I assume these guys are joking but Ellroy could never come close to the genius of Bukowski.

[CrazedAfroninja]

no way these guys are serious. I know Ellroy isn't.

[saulneto]

Ellroy is a right wing, repressed jack ass. The other one I don't know, but you can just look at his fuck face with his silly glasses which he wearsbecause he thinks they make him to look smart. They look like they are just out of the pseudo intellectual assembly line. Two sanitized little bitches.

[Unitedeurope1]

I really love Ellroy, he's one of my favorite writers. Always liked Bukowski too...he also idolized my favorite author Louis-Ferdinand Céline.

[sblug2]

Both of them are joking.

[twischi]

bukowski was just an opposite of this two arse-licker, envious ,baldy queens with their stupid old fashioned glasses. they look similar, they talk similar...nasty bastards. i dont know any of them.

[twischi]

who are wagner and ellroy? i never heard about this bastards

[Calatafimi]

Why they say that about Bukowski ???

In France, great writers loved Buk !

I love both of them (Ellroy & Buk) and all the rest is bullshit.

[guatemalaperra]

are you fucking serious, who are they to judge or label bukowski or any writter who managed to create art!!! _ okay i know we are all entitled to our opinions_ but please, give credit where credit is do, and charles bukowski earned many credits.

[dressedtosmellgood]

are you trying to say that he's not an alocholic misogynist? do you also deny the holocaust?

[Icyseven]

James Elroy is coming here today so cool ...

[theRODisHOT]

This is surely just a continuation of Ellroy's hilarious quest to simply PISS PEOPLE OFF. Like all his sh*t talk about being far-right, his tongue is so far in his cheek. Wagner even looks like he's trying to act. Who says "small hands" as a real criticism?

It's a joke people. And a funny one too.

[ManilaSyndicate]

Good observation. I think so too.

[JulioSacchi]

@theRODisHOT

And you're 100% right. I directed this show and that's exactly the way it was.

[gabrieldix64]

art fags

[BigFatSissy]

Love Bukowski. Love Ellroy. So fuck you, Jimmy E!

[Calatafimi]

Who's Jimmy E ? :-/

[blatspanner]

i read a couple of bukowski books and a couple of ellroy books. i enjoyed 'em all! yay!

[plocplocgloupgloup]

these guys are too different, there's no use in determining who wrote the "best" books.

[kakonis]

Whether or not Ellroy wants to admit it, Bukowski knew L.A. (Ellroy's chosen mileu) more intimately than Ellroy ever did. And he documented it more intimately.

And explain to me how someone who writes about women getting cut up into pieces is so superior to someone who was in a few domestic scraps?

[zenoizen]

The youtubers are for bukowski... what an endorsement.

[kakonis]

You have a right to look down on us lowly Youtubers. After all, you didn't post your comment on Youtube, and you don't have a Youtube account.

And I'm not sarcastic. And you're not a hypocrite.

[trainable2000]

Bukowski wrote a million poems about dung-heaps like these two. He always thought that his death would silence them, that they would find new people to spray their venom at. But it looks like their jealousy runs too deep. Bested by a dead man.

[RickyWagons]

Oh, and one more thing...There's a ton of misogyny in Ellroy's work....and he himself was (is) and alcoholic...now, is he a 'sack of shit'? As a person, it certainly seems so...

[RickyWagons]

'I want to be the Tolstoy of my generation - an author incidentally whom I've never read.' - James Ellroy

[RickyWagons]

I like Ellroy, but what does he know about poetry? He's essentially a pulp writer. And this other guy...I had to look at wikipedia to find out about him. His accomplishments include a few failed novels, and a story credit for A Nightmare on Elm Street 3. Those who can't...become critics.

[curbyourwife]

Pulp Novelists don't win TIME magazine book of the year two times and Failed novelists aren't labeled 'The Dickens of Hollywood'. Bukowski was a drunk, who documented his down and out experiences, George Orwell did this before him, but then matured and became a visionary. Bukowski was a acne covered middle-class closet boy who thought he was a visionary. What a cunt.

[heinzdieterhenn]

@curbyourwife

youre stuck. time magazine prices don't mean anything, other peoples labels neither.

dont you realize?

[droneinline]

I'l bet that drunk polocks hand was big enough to leave a red mark from ear to lip on that bag of elitist douche, and Elroy's just mad because a drunk misogynist killed his mom.

[dirtycelinefrenchman]

pinheads

[sanacido2]

poor little pieces of shit

[ManilaSyndicate]

Who's Wagner? And is it jealousy on Ellroy's part? One would expect he show respect for an intellectual and literary superior.

[cartoonlike]

Reading the comments, consensus seems to be that these are two non-entities who aren't talented enough to carry Bukowski's jock-strap. Ellroy has to self-mythologize so as to make himself the heir to Raymond Chandler and an imaginary LA that no longer exists. Who is the other dick-head; I think its Greil Marcus who "literary" style consists of hyperbole and caricature.

[nogoodman]

wtf Bukowski was light-years ahead of these cynical LA writers with their childish bickering about the late fame of the late Charles Bukowski. Besides, Ellroy's prose only works in a former LA. Bukowski's stories, describing not the present times, either, are written with rony and humanity which makes them universally appreciated all over the world anytime.

I read the blach dahlia and American tabloid, I couldn't detect anything of greater value.

[sblug2]

@nogoodman : Then try LA Confidential. ^^

[heinzdieterhenn]

"they will attempt to destroy anything

that differs from their own

not being able to create art

they will not understand art

they will consider their failure as creators

only as a failure of the world"

c.b.

[DanielForkbeard]

Oh my god! I can't believe I just heard these emasculated, bald bastards ripping on the dead Charles Bukowski. Fucking PC elitists.

[nosdrahcir]

what a pair of fucking cunts

[Eldritchard]

'small hands' Buk had hands like shovels

[spd13062]

Why is everyone a "sack of shit" to James Ellroy?

[Mntgoatsfan]

I'll take Bukowski's LA over Ellroy's anyday. Bukowski is a great writer, Ellroy is good. But far, FAR from great. I like his stuff, some of it even touched me. But he is NO Bukowski.

[EmmaCharlotteStubbs]

two words and a number

[Biochips1]

Have you even read one of his novels? If so, then maybe you can't read properly or are just not very intelligent.

[mattvansickle]

In the world of critique that I am used to, you can gauge quite easily the validity of the opposing point of view by how quickly one takes to become personal against you and not the points you are making. This shows a thin skin and funnily enough a lack of intelligence.

No points as yet made against what I have said just tedious disapproval. Thanks.

[Biochips1]

So, have you now read something by Ellroy or not? If not, you have no fucking right to criticize him, you unsuccessful moron!

[mattvansickle]

I have actually. I have read a few of his novels (Black Dahlia Suicide Hill and White Jazz- cliched, boring, derivative crap), so I claim my "fucking" right to criticize him and his reputation which is overrated. You have only proven my point further by attacking me (who you know nothing of) for criticizing a novelist who creates works that he surely expects people to hold opinions on even if you childishly do not.

How will I cope with being called an unsuccessful moron by Biochips1....

[mattvansickle]

Now get going and take your Linkin Park records with you sonny.

[Biochips1]

Black Dahlia is awesome. BTW Ellroy doesn't claim to be the best, he is just very good.

I have seen that documentary. If you would have seen you would know what a great guy he is.

[mattvansickle]

I never mentioned Ellroy's own opinion of himself but since you bring it up, here is a quote from an interview with him in the New York Times, (cont)

[mattvansickle]

"I am a master of fiction. I am also the greatest crime writer who ever lived. I am to the crime novel in specific what Tolstoy is to the Russian novel and what Beethoven is to music."

So you are right, he doesn't claim to be the best only the greatest. He isn't.

[mattvansickle]

Fucking computers! Grrrr

[Biochips1]

There are enough fans out there who consider him to be the best. BTW being the best is in the eye of the beholder anyway.

[Biochips1]

Yeah, I have my Linkin Park records always with me.

You are the moron though cause you didn't answer my essential question in the first place.