TALK PLEASE ABOUT WATERBOARDING OUR OWN USA CHILDREN AS "TRAINING"TO BECOME SPY-MOST DIE-see aaron mccollum, duncan o'finioan, obrien-cia child torture include waterboarding near death at 4 y o child-to create dissociation (amnesia) which can be use in a spy by cia/military assignments(so spy cant divulge mission under torture bc need key word or sound to access the memory)-also so spy or soldier cant refuse the work bc they obey triggers-theyre reflex robots(hypnotized/programmed under torture)
Jay Bagwell 's video must be shown everywhere! This must be kept in the archives and run every time Cheney promotes his daughter by saying torture is right. Why would any TV network ever show Cheney touting torture without showing this video right afterward? Thank you Jay Bagwell! You say it better than anyone else I've seen. TV networks, keep this video and show it over and over! show it so many times that Americans can quote it.
He didn't even mention the fact that torture is ineffective at producing quality intelligence. Getting to know the detainee and building a relationship of trust does that (but don't take my word for it, ask some of the interrogators who know this.) Yet the myth persists that only torturing our enemies will keep us safe. Pathetic.
I'll bet that grrgto bush supporter has never been anywhere near our military or a war zone. Otherwise, he wouldn't be talking like this. Just like bush and cheney. He is overcompensating for his obvious feeling of inadequacy. I'll bet he's reading this right now, wishing he could kill everyone of us. Poor pathetic example of a human being. Makes me ashamed to be white,
He's just another right-wing neocon dittohead Keyboard Kommando who wouldn't last a day in Iraq or Afghanistan, or in basic training before he washed out-don't mind him.
Being a fan of Jesus does not make you a Christian. I agree with Jesus somewhat about his preachings on the rich. The fact he singled out the moral teachings of Jesus only proves he saw Jesus as a philosopher, it does not prove he revered Jesus in a supernatural sense.
What I described is the Jefferson Bible. It takes the moral teachings and throws out anything Jefferson saw a logical misstep with, like the supernatural occurrences.
Well he found redeeming qualities in Jesus. I know it seems semantic but there is a difference between Jesus and Christianity. Like I said, if you are going to go by the Jefferson Bible he treats Jesus as a philosopher
True, seeing as though the Bible is the only record of Jesus' existence. But one can take the philosophical teachings of a person without recognizing their religious affiliation.
oh really? he was there. he saw it. he lived it. where have you been? under a rock? that "quonk" served our country in a theatre of war. a thank you, rather than a slur, would be appropriate. otherwise shut your hole.
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There was no systematic torture by Americans which is why the left wing haters of America have been unable to produce any evidence of it. Water boarding is not torture. Torture is what they do in Russia, China, the Middle East, except in Israel, most African nations, Mexico, and in several other countries represented in the United Nations. Who is this left wing mouth piece propagandist anyway?
You say torture is ONLY what they do in Russia, China? Where the F do you think we GOT the idea of waterboarding from? The Commies used ALL the techniques WE are now using against OUR POWs in the Korean War, in order to mentally break them down so that they could become propaganda tools for the Commies. We got ahold of a Chinese manual w/their techniques back then and started the SERE training program to get our troops to RESIST becoming propaganda tools. You're defending COMMIE tools.
As long as the American government continues to ignore the ethics and laws it preaches it honors, it wil NOT be respected by ANYONE, including its citizens. Period.
(( Really now? Is that why they captured our people During Carter's Admin? Is that why they Bombed the WTC on Clinton's watch? Wake up! ))
You mean while you were watching Welcome Back Kotter & Vinnie Barbarino? You were what, 10 then? Did you know back then Travolta was "funny", even though you wanted to be like him.
What else don't you tell here? That you never made the football team, but tried wrestling because you liked the sweat. Name your battalion commander.
What is that? I don't watch the boob tube. I'm too busy checking out facts so I know what's REALLY going on in this country. Too bad you follow those blowhard hypocrites. America has NO right to tell people in other countrys what to do. And to start a preemptive war on the WRONG country using lies as justification? Inexcusable. FYI.. the truth about 9/11 is getting much closer to being exposed. You'd better sit down for that one.
You poor ignorant, rude bastard. One day reality will slap you in the face, but somehow I don't think you'll even notice. I feel sorry for your mother, father, sisters, brothers, wives, kids, and anyone else who has the displeasure of knowing you. So there, asshole. Bite me.
Why should I or anybody else care to hear from you and morons like you? Obviously your mommy didn't wash you as good enough when you were a baby, so now the shit's gotten crusty and hard and you're nasty all the time. I'd suggest cleaning it up some more, sanctorum boy.
Exactly. The GOP just keeps repeating the same lines over and over and over hoping that eventually people will believe it. Obviously some dittoheads have. Bush and Cheney are lame and drug this country down further than it's ever been in every aspect. But what do you expect of illegal thugs?
We participated in two world wars without ever using torture. Why is it suddenly alright to violate our own Constitution and the Geneva Convention? In the past, even a debate on whether or not we should torture would have been unthinkable. BushCo. has certainly lowered the bar. But we have to ask ourselves, do we wish to be a nation of laws or a nation of thugs?
Altered: who are you preferring this year: Beck or Hannity? O'Reilly's kind of losing his popularity, wouldn't you say? Who's that chick from Townhall, she's kinda hot, in a pay-for-comments kind of way.
grrgto - You are PLAIN WRONG. The Constitution itself says, and I quote:
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which sll be made in Pursuance thereof; and all TREATIES made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND; and the Judges in every State shall be BOUND thereby..." Meaning ANY international treaty we sign and ratify binds us to following that treaty - and we signed on to, and ratified, the Geneva Conventions.
Uhm - numbnut - what do you think treaties between us and other countries are? They're INTERNATIONAL LAW - and INTERNATIONAL LAW includes TREATIES that we sign with MULTIPLE countries - it doesn't matter whether we sign them with one country or many, they are STILL TREATIES that are afforded the title of SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND. We DID agree to the Convention Against Torture, which, based on its definitions, would include waterboarding as torture. Perhaps YOU should pick up a dictionary.
(( Wipe the milk off your chin and pick up weapon to defend our Freedom... then you can have some credentials. ))
grrgto: prove that you served. which branch, which years, unit# ... oh. another armchair quarterback who substitutes blustering bully-talk for strategic knowledge. Amazing how many sexually repressed reptillians like you seeking to validate your masculinity - which has no doubt been called into question in the "real world". It's why big-shot web comments are your life's reward
Bush ignored the warnings, took a month off and then stonewalled the investigation for 2 years before agreeing to not testify under oath to the 911 Committee.
911 happened on Bush's watch most likely with the help of Dick Cheney from the PEOC bunker.
ggrgto, stick to favoriting Rush Limbaugh videos and filling socks to Ann Coulter.
Oh, you said Clinton had Monica's balls in his mouth and was not paying attention to country..... Ahhh I get your point now.
Nice try, ya see investigations don't un-do the actions... he ya go again crying about the pin prick after getting body slammed.
Really sad how much you hate America, too bad you were not here in 1776, maybe you would have put Washington in jail for approving terrorism..... dumbass.
uhm - idiot - international law we sign on to ARE treaties, treaties we are required to abide by under OUR CONSTITUTION. Some of the TREATIES we have signed on to and ratified are the Geneva Conventions and the Convention Against Torture, numbnut, and we have to ABIDE BY THEM. What does the Declaration of Independent have to do with anything? It is NOT law, law alone the Supreme Law of the Land, and it doesn't say anything about this.
Dipwad yourself, Al Qaeda doesn't have to sign the treaty for US to be subject to it - all that needs to happen is for US to sign and ratify it - if WE sign and ratify a treaty, then WE are held to be bound to it. Some treaties have a "effective trigger", which means that the treaty will ONLY be effective if a certain number of countries sign and ratify it - however, both te Convention Against Torture and Geneva Conventions have already gone into effect, and WE are signatories
(Cont'd 2) and they did NOT believe in organized religion. They did NOT put God into the Constitution. The Constitution, NOT the Delaration of Independence, is the LAW of the land, and it requires a separation between church and state. This squares properly with the beliefs of the founders, he knew that problems could happen if you mixed church and state together. God is NOT a part of our laws and has NOTHING to do with what we are discussing. By the way, God would NOT want us to torture.
grrgto - no, it is the opinion of the SUPREME COURT (and hence a Constitutional requirement) that detainees held in Gitmo get a proper hearing. Waterboarding has also been LEGALLY defined as torture, since the laws that we are subject to define it as such, and since we even prosecuted and EXECUTED Japanese soldiers for waterboarding US POWs during WWII.
grrgto - for the 5th TIME - it is called the Convention Against Torture, numbnut. We PROSECUTED Japanee soldiers, and EXECUTED them, for waterboarding because it was a WAR CRIME. You are also talking about ALLEGED terrorists, numbnut - over 80% of Gitmo detainees WEREN'T picked up on the battlefield but instead sold to us for bounties. The Supreme Court, in Boumedienne v. Bush, said they DO have Constitutional rights of habeas corpus and trials - why do you hate the Constitution?
Over 80% WOW! I feel so much like a heel for infringing on the rights of those who want to kill us for no reason.
Buy you with your 100% certainty that they were innocent standers-by makes it all clear now.
You hate America, you are too lazy to move to Europe, and you have always collected a paycheck for some menial task (vs. running a business and paying people for their actual contribution).
grrgto - it's called the Constitution of the United States and it is the Supreme Court of the United States that interprets the Constitution - you screaming "No they don't have any rights" doesn't stand up in a fight against the Constitution and the Supreme Court - like I asked, why do you hate the Constitution? Uhm - numbnut, if you knew how to read, you would understand they were sold to us solely for money - that is what SELLING PEOPLE means - not because they were ACTUALLY terrorists.
(cont'd) I never said I had 100% certainty they were innocent, I want an ACtUAL TRIAL to find out if they're guilty or not - if they're guilty, lock them away - all I am saying is there is a good chance that 86% are more innocent than not, and we should have a trial, as REQUIRED BY THE CONSTITUTION, to determine whether or not they are actually innocent. I hate America? YOU hate the Constitution. It's obvious that you've had a LABOTOMY, so unless you can make some sense, have a nice day.
Hey honey I was out minding my own business when all of a sudden these US Troops came out of no where and hauled my arse off to Gitmo.
ROTFLMFAO!!!
Fine lets do it your way for a few years, I know I'll survive. And then we can submit a copy of the 1st declation of independence to Washington.
Again, I have no need to torture and none of us should. Waterboarding is not torture yet I would not use it at my present state of mind. Waterboarding is not a crime and did not cause 9/11.
Ok - let me explain this ONE LAST TIME, since you haven't been able to repair that labotomy of yours. They...were...SOLD...to...us...for...a...bounty,...they...
weren't...picked...up...on...the...battlefield. That slow enough for you? As I said, the Decalaration of Independence is NOT law, and has nothing to do with anything. Finally, I guess you don't understand the word PROSECUTION - we prosecuted Japanese for waterboarding, it is torture under CAT. Learn how to read.
Hi honey its me Akhnod, some guy named technotinsync said I should call you and tell you that I will be coming home soon with the groceries!
It was all a big mistake, after I yelled and screamed death to the infidels that decided to look at it from my point of view.
Even though NO ONE WAS EVER Prosecuted EVER For Waterboarding (EVER)... it seems like the greatest enemy to the US (OWEBAma) is making it easier for us terrorists.
Hey dumb ass, you realize we prosecuted and executed Japanese for doing the same thing to us in WW2. How about you read up on your history before you come and try to debate about something. If you actually gave a crap about the values which your country stands for maybe I would give you some respect. You sound like one of those gun toting rednecks who just go with anything that Sean Hannity says
By the way America is not a Christian nation either, that was established in a treaty that John Adams signed with Tripoli. Because I'm sure in your delusional mind you also don't believe in secularism.
I will decide if America is Christian at my dinner table. The UN-American President WILL NOT SPEAK FOR ME as to our Christianity!
But what about the Declaration of Independence? Surely that document is important too in determining whether or not the founding fathers were believers: * Number of times the word "God" appears: once * Number of times the word "Creator" appears: once
Sorry but America is a secular country, you can look right in the constitution. America can not be considered a Christian nation because the constitution forbids establishment of a religion above all beliefs/non-belief.
May I remind you that Thomas Jefferson wrote the declaration of independence. Jefferson being the most outspoken critic of the founding fathers regarding Christianity. Jefferson was nothing close to Christian, at most he was a deist.
Those can have a metaphorical type meaning. I doubt it though, they were written by Christians. But "In God We Trust" was put on the money during the 1950's along with "One Nation under God." This was because people were scared of the atheist Soviets. "So help me god", I assume you are referring to the inauguration. The actual oath in the constitution does not include those words. George Washington may have said it, but the man who supposedly heard it was to far away to hear Wash's speech clear.
I wouldn't call what we have now capitalism. I would have to call it a large transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. I would also call it another nail in our coffin which will be buried by the Chinese
Actually it sets a legal precedent which clearly demonstrates that people who conspire to torture people are violating the law. But of course you probably believe that when an American is the one torturing someone it makes it ok. Why don't you go talk to some of our former vietnam war pows who were subjected to waterboarding and tell them that it's not torture.
It sure has, again read some history books it's pretty clear cut. And as to your case that no one has ever been prosecuted, Yukio Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor for waterboarding. And besides how would you even know that it dosent cause any marks? Put your money where your mouth is and lets see some proof.
NOPE Dope, you can spin if you want to... other people can believe your lies too.
NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN SENTENCED/PROSECUTED FOR WATERBOARDING. Sorry PAL, his other crimes are there and thats fine, just because you think the sentencing was for waterboarding don't make it so.
(cont'd) It is also common sense that ANY treaty that we sign and ratify and is in effect requires us to be bound to it. It would make NO sense to sign a climate change treaty, for example, sign it, ratify it, and then say we are not bound by it - just because we are dealing with a treaty that relates to wartime rather than one dealing with climate change doesn't mean the PROCEDURE isn't the same - therefore we are STILL bound to the treaty no matter what.
(cont'd) Unfortunately Al Qaeda is NOT a nation-state and did NOT sign the treaties, so they are NOT required to be bound by it. Al that is required for US to be bound by it is to sign the treaty and ratify it. Then we would be bound by it NO MATTER WHO WE'RE FIGHTING. Just because the country we're fighting didn't sign it doesn't mean we can just ignore the fact that WE are signatories. About "report to God", the Founders were Deists, they did NOT believe that God interfered with THIS life
The recent torture events did not get used to recruit for the Kobar Towers, USS Cole, 1st WTC Bombing or the Planes on 9/11.
You are Wrong JAY!!!!
I do however, agree with you that we don't HAVE to use torture, we don't HAVE to put them in cells if they did not commit violence upon freedom either.
Telling our enemies that we did Waterboard is stupid, Waterboarding 3 people.....? Give me a break.
Finally we get authentic information form people who've served -- unlike the blowhards Dick Cheney and his daughter Cheneylette -- who speak thinktanked words constructed to deceive and recast American use of systematic torture, ordered by Dick Cheney, as righteous and for the good of our safety. Please, American Military vets, continue to speak out against the "civilian leadership" liars -- and war criminals, most notably 6-deferrments Cheney, who has never risked his life for anything.
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It's kind of funny that we have to follow the geneva convention but nobody else does. Who gives a shit if they were tortured. Their comrades executed dozens of Americans on camera and showed it proudly off to people all over the world. We need to harden the fuck up. Only a fucking Army POG would talk bull shit like this.
Numbnut - we SIGNED and RATIFIED the Geneva Conventions - that means, under our CONSTITUTION, we are bound to them. Al Qaeda, not being a nation-state and not being a signatory to the Convention, is NOT bound to them. We shouldn't be whining about not being able to bring ourselves down to THEIR LEVEL.
sad how your hero nugent, went to great lengths to get his draft deferment, and is a child molester. Your hero, a life long war supporter, decided not to do the ultimate form of patriotism, serve in the military. He went to his military physical in shit filled pants after not bathing for a month, wearing the same clothes.
Google, Courtney love and ted nugent. That draft dodging coward needs to be locked up with the rest of the child molesters.
Typical lib, can't win an argument so you find fault with an unrelated value of the person.
Facts are facts, Ted's 2nd ammendment message is rigjt on... get over it, or we could split the country if you want. You guys get no guns and we get to keep ours....???
TALK PLEASE ABOUT WATERBOARDING OUR OWN USA CHILDREN AS "TRAINING"TO BECOME SPY-MOST DIE-see aaron mccollum, duncan o'finioan, obrien-cia child torture include waterboarding near death at 4 y o child-to create dissociation (amnesia) which can be use in a spy by cia/military assignments(so spy cant divulge mission under torture bc need key word or sound to access the memory)-also so spy or soldier cant refuse the work bc they obey triggers-theyre reflex robots(hypnotized/programmed under torture)
lmollot 10 months ago
Dear MoveOn you are hypocrites. Why aren't you decrying Obama now that he has gone back on his word on gitmo?
ceakins1 11 months ago
Who cares if terrorists get tortured! They'd cut any americans head off if they got the chance too. I say do whatever it takes to get one to talk.
willb06 1 year ago
Jay Bagwell 's video must be shown everywhere! This must be kept in the archives and run every time Cheney promotes his daughter by saying torture is right. Why would any TV network ever show Cheney touting torture without showing this video right afterward? Thank you Jay Bagwell! You say it better than anyone else I've seen. TV networks, keep this video and show it over and over! show it so many times that Americans can quote it.
gotsmarter 2 years ago
He didn't even mention the fact that torture is ineffective at producing quality intelligence. Getting to know the detainee and building a relationship of trust does that (but don't take my word for it, ask some of the interrogators who know this.) Yet the myth persists that only torturing our enemies will keep us safe. Pathetic.
jonajen 2 years ago
I'll bet that grrgto bush supporter has never been anywhere near our military or a war zone. Otherwise, he wouldn't be talking like this. Just like bush and cheney. He is overcompensating for his obvious feeling of inadequacy. I'll bet he's reading this right now, wishing he could kill everyone of us. Poor pathetic example of a human being. Makes me ashamed to be white,
pashinette 2 years ago
He's just another right-wing neocon dittohead Keyboard Kommando who wouldn't last a day in Iraq or Afghanistan, or in basic training before he washed out-don't mind him.
Neville6000 2 years ago
Unnecessary??? Trying to obtain information that can and will be used to protect you and your country is unncessary? WOW!!!
jstnfitz25 2 years ago
"There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."
Sure, a true practicing Christian
Patman968574 2 years ago
That quote is an obvious fake.
grazon 2 years ago
Well to you it is because it doesn't agree with your misguided view.
Patman968574 2 years ago
Try because it goes against a number of other things than Jefferson said, wrote and did that you obviously know shit about.
grazon 2 years ago
Can you quote any of those things? Because you obviously do not trust my quotes, why should I trust you opinion?
Patman968574 2 years ago
Well for starters there's the Jefferson Bible.
Have you heard of it?
grazon 2 years ago
Being a fan of Jesus does not make you a Christian. I agree with Jesus somewhat about his preachings on the rich. The fact he singled out the moral teachings of Jesus only proves he saw Jesus as a philosopher, it does not prove he revered Jesus in a supernatural sense.
Patman968574 2 years ago
You have heard of the Jefferson Bible then?
grazon 2 years ago
What I described is the Jefferson Bible. It takes the moral teachings and throws out anything Jefferson saw a logical misstep with, like the supernatural occurrences.
Patman968574 2 years ago
In other words Jefferson did find in Christianity redeeming features.
grazon 2 years ago
Well he found redeeming qualities in Jesus. I know it seems semantic but there is a difference between Jesus and Christianity. Like I said, if you are going to go by the Jefferson Bible he treats Jesus as a philosopher
Patman968574 2 years ago
Yet it is within Christianity that one finds the Jesus that Jeffeson admired.
grazon 2 years ago
True, seeing as though the Bible is the only record of Jesus' existence. But one can take the philosophical teachings of a person without recognizing their religious affiliation.
Patman968574 2 years ago
There are other clues that the quote is a fake.
For example where did you get it?
grazon 2 years ago
Jessi Ventura is offering free waterboarding (stop) suggest you seek him out and get some (stop)
If you like it, repeat the process....
We put japanese soldiers to death for water boarding us as well....never prosecuted anyone squat.
Don't go through life listening to Rush, Hannity....
Bdubslawman 2 years ago
this is
kimstylezvideos 2 years ago
oh really? he was there. he saw it. he lived it. where have you been? under a rock? that "quonk" served our country in a theatre of war. a thank you, rather than a slur, would be appropriate. otherwise shut your hole.
hickmannon 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There was no systematic torture by Americans which is why the left wing haters of America have been unable to produce any evidence of it. Water boarding is not torture. Torture is what they do in Russia, China, the Middle East, except in Israel, most African nations, Mexico, and in several other countries represented in the United Nations. Who is this left wing mouth piece propagandist anyway?
ALTERED13TH 2 years ago
How many times have you been water-boarded?
The probable answer is zero. Which means you know nothing of value about the subject.
healthhavencom 2 years ago
Jay Bagwell a veteran of the Afganistan War not that you or Billo give two shit about Veterans.
grazon 2 years ago
You say torture is ONLY what they do in Russia, China? Where the F do you think we GOT the idea of waterboarding from? The Commies used ALL the techniques WE are now using against OUR POWs in the Korean War, in order to mentally break them down so that they could become propaganda tools for the Commies. We got ahold of a Chinese manual w/their techniques back then and started the SERE training program to get our troops to RESIST becoming propaganda tools. You're defending COMMIE tools.
technicschic 2 years ago
Like he cares about any of that ALTERED13TH is a dickless all talk tool.
grazon 2 years ago
Thank you Jay Bagwell and votevets.
The United Snakes of Torture belong in prison. Cheney/Bush/Rumsfeld and their torture have killed thousands of American soldiers.
Torturing patsy's so they "confess" to masterminding 911 and bridging Al Qaeda to Saddamn.
Brutal.
The Rush Limbaugh, chickenhawk crowd loves their torture.
They make me sick.
Let's get the war crimes tribunals going for fuck sake.
DjBall 2 years ago
As long as the American government continues to ignore the ethics and laws it preaches it honors, it wil NOT be respected by ANYONE, including its citizens. Period.
pashinette 2 years ago
Really now?
Is that why they captured our people During Carter's Admin?
Is that why they Bombed the WTC on Clinton's watch?
Wake up!
grrgto 2 years ago
(( Really now? Is that why they captured our people During Carter's Admin? Is that why they Bombed the WTC on Clinton's watch? Wake up! ))
You mean while you were watching Welcome Back Kotter & Vinnie Barbarino? You were what, 10 then? Did you know back then Travolta was "funny", even though you wanted to be like him.
What else don't you tell here? That you never made the football team, but tried wrestling because you liked the sweat. Name your battalion commander.
quicksite 2 years ago
What is that? I don't watch the boob tube. I'm too busy checking out facts so I know what's REALLY going on in this country. Too bad you follow those blowhard hypocrites. America has NO right to tell people in other countrys what to do. And to start a preemptive war on the WRONG country using lies as justification? Inexcusable. FYI.. the truth about 9/11 is getting much closer to being exposed. You'd better sit down for that one.
pashinette 2 years ago
Don't forget that they destroyed the WTC on Bush's watch. So much for keeping our country safe.
AdmiralShat 2 years ago
Ya mean on Clinton's watch?
That when they hit it 1st.
grrgto 2 years ago
Yes they hit it first on Clintons watch, then they came back and finished the job on Bush's watch.
AdmiralShat 2 years ago
And you don't even really kno who "THEY" is. Why don't you stop being so prejudiced and join the human race.
pashinette 2 years ago
Hey pashitnette,
How about a cup of shut the f up?
They yes they admit and brag about it you dumbass.
Go back to sleep moron.
grrgto 2 years ago
You poor ignorant, rude bastard. One day reality will slap you in the face, but somehow I don't think you'll even notice. I feel sorry for your mother, father, sisters, brothers, wives, kids, and anyone else who has the displeasure of knowing you. So there, asshole. Bite me.
pashinette 2 years ago
Dear PaSHITnut, who gives a shit what a bitch like u thinks anyway?
u don't a fing clue as to what u r talking about. u r just another liberal bitch that has nothing to offer other than equal misery.
grrgto 2 years ago
Why should I or anybody else care to hear from you and morons like you? Obviously your mommy didn't wash you as good enough when you were a baby, so now the shit's gotten crusty and hard and you're nasty all the time. I'd suggest cleaning it up some more, sanctorum boy.
Neville6000 2 years ago
Exactly. The GOP just keeps repeating the same lines over and over and over hoping that eventually people will believe it. Obviously some dittoheads have. Bush and Cheney are lame and drug this country down further than it's ever been in every aspect. But what do you expect of illegal thugs?
pashinette 2 years ago
We participated in two world wars without ever using torture. Why is it suddenly alright to violate our own Constitution and the Geneva Convention? In the past, even a debate on whether or not we should torture would have been unthinkable. BushCo. has certainly lowered the bar. But we have to ask ourselves, do we wish to be a nation of laws or a nation of thugs?
mmedefarge 2 years ago
He's right but there was no torture. And of course he cites no examples of it because he knows of none. He's a propagandist.
ALTERED13TH 2 years ago
Altered: who are you preferring this year: Beck or Hannity? O'Reilly's kind of losing his popularity, wouldn't you say? Who's that chick from Townhall, she's kinda hot, in a pay-for-comments kind of way.
quicksite 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
We are not subject to international law!!!!!
If you libs would stop taking God out of everything then we would not need to hear you cry about international law.
We have the Declaration and Constitution to uphold... NOT INTERNATIONAL OPINION!
If you don't like Waterboarding then fine, I don't disagree, to call it a crime and a tool is stupid.
Did CLINTON TORTURE and cause the WTC Bombing????
grrgto 2 years ago
grrgto - You are PLAIN WRONG. The Constitution itself says, and I quote:
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which sll be made in Pursuance thereof; and all TREATIES made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND; and the Judges in every State shall be BOUND thereby..." Meaning ANY international treaty we sign and ratify binds us to following that treaty - and we signed on to, and ratified, the Geneva Conventions.
technicschic 2 years ago
That darned Constitution getting in the way of those who support sodomy with a glow stick.
Oilwellian 2 years ago
Did some county make a law and you refer to it? If so then go F your self!
If some country made a treaty with us and we sign it then UH F-ING DUH that is an agreement!
We never agreed to anyone that these terrorists got protection under any international law nor did we ever agree that Waterboarding was torture.
Aww did the damn DICTIONARY and COMMON SENSE in your dumbass way????
grrgto 2 years ago
Uhm - numbnut - what do you think treaties between us and other countries are? They're INTERNATIONAL LAW - and INTERNATIONAL LAW includes TREATIES that we sign with MULTIPLE countries - it doesn't matter whether we sign them with one country or many, they are STILL TREATIES that are afforded the title of SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND. We DID agree to the Convention Against Torture, which, based on its definitions, would include waterboarding as torture. Perhaps YOU should pick up a dictionary.
technicschic 2 years ago
NOPE, Terrorists are not covered under the Geneva Conv.
Wipe the milk off your chin and pick up weapon to defend our Freedom... then you can have some credentials.
By your own reference, you are wrong... stop spinning and lying just because you hate Bush.
grrgto 2 years ago
(( Wipe the milk off your chin and pick up weapon to defend our Freedom... then you can have some credentials. ))
grrgto: prove that you served. which branch, which years, unit# ... oh. another armchair quarterback who substitutes blustering bully-talk for strategic knowledge. Amazing how many sexually repressed reptillians like you seeking to validate your masculinity - which has no doubt been called into question in the "real world". It's why big-shot web comments are your life's reward
quicksite 2 years ago
NO, I do not answer your demands!
Fact: Waterboarding by Bush did NOT cause 9/11
Opinion: Waterboarding is torture
I don't give a shit if you like or hate waterboarding!
It ain't a crime and I certainly ain't answering to some Euoropean law about it.
Now, go back to your Boyfriend Rachel Maddow and give hime a reach around.
grrgto 2 years ago
911 ?
Bush ignored the warnings, took a month off and then stonewalled the investigation for 2 years before agreeing to not testify under oath to the 911 Committee.
911 happened on Bush's watch most likely with the help of Dick Cheney from the PEOC bunker.
ggrgto, stick to favoriting Rush Limbaugh videos and filling socks to Ann Coulter.
DjBall 2 years ago
Sorry I could not understand you...
Did you say Carter was asleep.
Oh, you said Clinton had Monica's balls in his mouth and was not paying attention to country..... Ahhh I get your point now.
Nice try, ya see investigations don't un-do the actions... he ya go again crying about the pin prick after getting body slammed.
Really sad how much you hate America, too bad you were not here in 1776, maybe you would have put Washington in jail for approving terrorism..... dumbass.
grrgto 2 years ago
Our Constitution does say we are subject to International law and treaties!!!!!!!!!
fmazurk 2 years ago
No it does not.
But if you meant 'International Law that we sign on to' then your getting warmer.
Please take the time to read the Declaration of Independence before reading the Constitution.
grrgto 2 years ago
uhm - idiot - international law we sign on to ARE treaties, treaties we are required to abide by under OUR CONSTITUTION. Some of the TREATIES we have signed on to and ratified are the Geneva Conventions and the Convention Against Torture, numbnut, and we have to ABIDE BY THEM. What does the Declaration of Independent have to do with anything? It is NOT law, law alone the Supreme Law of the Land, and it doesn't say anything about this.
technicschic 2 years ago
Did Al-Queda sign the treaty???
Dipwad, get off your arse and make a contribution to this country will ya.
We report to God, that is what the Declaration has to do with this!
grrgto 2 years ago
Dipwad yourself, Al Qaeda doesn't have to sign the treaty for US to be subject to it - all that needs to happen is for US to sign and ratify it - if WE sign and ratify a treaty, then WE are held to be bound to it. Some treaties have a "effective trigger", which means that the treaty will ONLY be effective if a certain number of countries sign and ratify it - however, both te Convention Against Torture and Geneva Conventions have already gone into effect, and WE are signatories
technicschic 2 years ago
(Cont'd 2) and they did NOT believe in organized religion. They did NOT put God into the Constitution. The Constitution, NOT the Delaration of Independence, is the LAW of the land, and it requires a separation between church and state. This squares properly with the beliefs of the founders, he knew that problems could happen if you mixed church and state together. God is NOT a part of our laws and has NOTHING to do with what we are discussing. By the way, God would NOT want us to torture.
technicschic 2 years ago
Its your opinion that terrorist scum get that PRIVILEGE and your poor opionion that waterboarding is torture.
carry-on (that may be proof for quicklicker)
grrgto 2 years ago
grrgto - no, it is the opinion of the SUPREME COURT (and hence a Constitutional requirement) that detainees held in Gitmo get a proper hearing. Waterboarding has also been LEGALLY defined as torture, since the laws that we are subject to define it as such, and since we even prosecuted and EXECUTED Japanese soldiers for waterboarding US POWs during WWII.
technicschic 2 years ago
WOW!
Can I see the document you dream of?
The one that says Waterboarding is torture???
I don't care for waterboarding but it ain't torture. I don't care for torturing POW's but those terrorists ain't fit to live.
They have no and deserve no protection under our constitution.
grrgto 2 years ago
grrgto - for the 5th TIME - it is called the Convention Against Torture, numbnut. We PROSECUTED Japanee soldiers, and EXECUTED them, for waterboarding because it was a WAR CRIME. You are also talking about ALLEGED terrorists, numbnut - over 80% of Gitmo detainees WEREN'T picked up on the battlefield but instead sold to us for bounties. The Supreme Court, in Boumedienne v. Bush, said they DO have Constitutional rights of habeas corpus and trials - why do you hate the Constitution?
technicschic 2 years ago
NO THEY DON'T
Over 80% WOW! I feel so much like a heel for infringing on the rights of those who want to kill us for no reason.
Buy you with your 100% certainty that they were innocent standers-by makes it all clear now.
You hate America, you are too lazy to move to Europe, and you have always collected a paycheck for some menial task (vs. running a business and paying people for their actual contribution).
grrgto 2 years ago
grrgto - it's called the Constitution of the United States and it is the Supreme Court of the United States that interprets the Constitution - you screaming "No they don't have any rights" doesn't stand up in a fight against the Constitution and the Supreme Court - like I asked, why do you hate the Constitution? Uhm - numbnut, if you knew how to read, you would understand they were sold to us solely for money - that is what SELLING PEOPLE means - not because they were ACTUALLY terrorists.
technicschic 2 years ago
(cont'd) I never said I had 100% certainty they were innocent, I want an ACtUAL TRIAL to find out if they're guilty or not - if they're guilty, lock them away - all I am saying is there is a good chance that 86% are more innocent than not, and we should have a trial, as REQUIRED BY THE CONSTITUTION, to determine whether or not they are actually innocent. I hate America? YOU hate the Constitution. It's obvious that you've had a LABOTOMY, so unless you can make some sense, have a nice day.
technicschic 2 years ago
LOL!
Hey honey I was out minding my own business when all of a sudden these US Troops came out of no where and hauled my arse off to Gitmo.
ROTFLMFAO!!!
Fine lets do it your way for a few years, I know I'll survive. And then we can submit a copy of the 1st declation of independence to Washington.
Again, I have no need to torture and none of us should. Waterboarding is not torture yet I would not use it at my present state of mind. Waterboarding is not a crime and did not cause 9/11.
grrgto 2 years ago
Ok - let me explain this ONE LAST TIME, since you haven't been able to repair that labotomy of yours. They...were...SOLD...to...us...for...a...bounty,...they...
weren't...picked...up...on...the...battlefield. That slow enough for you? As I said, the Decalaration of Independence is NOT law, and has nothing to do with anything. Finally, I guess you don't understand the word PROSECUTION - we prosecuted Japanese for waterboarding, it is torture under CAT. Learn how to read.
technicschic 2 years ago
Hi honey its me Akhnod, some guy named technotinsync said I should call you and tell you that I will be coming home soon with the groceries!
It was all a big mistake, after I yelled and screamed death to the infidels that decided to look at it from my point of view.
Even though NO ONE WAS EVER Prosecuted EVER For Waterboarding (EVER)... it seems like the greatest enemy to the US (OWEBAma) is making it easier for us terrorists.
Bye honey, be home soon, get my vest ready.
grrgto 2 years ago
Hey dumb ass, you realize we prosecuted and executed Japanese for doing the same thing to us in WW2. How about you read up on your history before you come and try to debate about something. If you actually gave a crap about the values which your country stands for maybe I would give you some respect. You sound like one of those gun toting rednecks who just go with anything that Sean Hannity says
Patman968574 2 years ago
Hey PatWOMAN968574, did you realize that your stupid ass failed to produce proof of that?
NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN PROSECUTED FOR WATERBOARDING!!!!!
You know, it would be easier to teach a ROCK to Float than to get thru to you liberal commie Bush bashers.
grrgto 2 years ago
United States v. Altstoetter read it and weep asshole
AdmiralShat 2 years ago
Dear AdmiralShatmyself,
Seems like you shat in your eye and it caused you to be unable to read!
NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN PROSECUTED FOR W A T E R B O A R D I N G !!!!
Thatx for the article of United States v. Altstoetter that proves you are a dumb shit!
There is not one thread of proof ..... ASSHOLE Yourself.
grrgto 2 years ago
By the way America is not a Christian nation either, that was established in a treaty that John Adams signed with Tripoli. Because I'm sure in your delusional mind you also don't believe in secularism.
Patman968574 2 years ago
I will decide if America is Christian at my dinner table. The UN-American President WILL NOT SPEAK FOR ME as to our Christianity!
But what about the Declaration of Independence? Surely that document is important too in determining whether or not the founding fathers were believers: * Number of times the word "God" appears: once * Number of times the word "Creator" appears: once
grrgto 2 years ago
Sorry but America is a secular country, you can look right in the constitution. America can not be considered a Christian nation because the constitution forbids establishment of a religion above all beliefs/non-belief.
May I remind you that Thomas Jefferson wrote the declaration of independence. Jefferson being the most outspoken critic of the founding fathers regarding Christianity. Jefferson was nothing close to Christian, at most he was a deist.
Patman968574 2 years ago
Dunna nunna nunna PAT-MAN,
I really have no debate for your Christian opinion in America. I don't care what your opinion of what Dead people may or may have not said or did.
In God We trust!
So help me God!
God Bless America!
One Nation under God!
Jefferson was not a Dictator and never pleaded with other nations to prove we were or were not be holden to Christianity.
grrgto 2 years ago
Those can have a metaphorical type meaning. I doubt it though, they were written by Christians. But "In God We Trust" was put on the money during the 1950's along with "One Nation under God." This was because people were scared of the atheist Soviets. "So help me god", I assume you are referring to the inauguration. The actual oath in the constitution does not include those words. George Washington may have said it, but the man who supposedly heard it was to far away to hear Wash's speech clear.
Patman968574 2 years ago
Fine, you win, we are not Chritian in our nation.
Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter... etc.
We must be capitalists, either way... ya got me.
grrgto 2 years ago
I wouldn't call what we have now capitalism. I would have to call it a large transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. I would also call it another nail in our coffin which will be buried by the Chinese
Patman968574 2 years ago
"Jefferson was nothing close to Christian"
Actually he was a Unitarian that prayed and loved the teachings of Jesus.
grazon 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."
Big lover of Christianity
Patman968574 2 years ago
Thank-you, it was lonely with PatWoman lying and no one to defend me.
grrgto 2 years ago
Why don't you decide if you have a functioning brain? Oh wait, you don't have one-too bad/so sad.
Neville6000 2 years ago
Actually it sets a legal precedent which clearly demonstrates that people who conspire to torture people are violating the law. But of course you probably believe that when an American is the one torturing someone it makes it ok. Why don't you go talk to some of our former vietnam war pows who were subjected to waterboarding and tell them that it's not torture.
AdmiralShat 2 years ago
Listening to you is torture.
No sleep is torture,
Eating my vegetables is torture,
Where ya gonna draw the bitching line?
Where are the marks physically from Waterboarding, where is the damage other than pride being hurt???
grrgto 2 years ago
Waterboarding has always been considered torture, check out some history books, or the legal definition of torture.
AdmiralShat 2 years ago
No, Nope, it has not.
Show me the bruises from waterboarding!!!
Show me the physical ailments atributed to waterboarding.... THERE ARE NONE!
Again! NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN PROSECUTED FOR WATERBOARDING!!!
SHOW US THE PROOF IF YOU HAVE IT!
grrgto 2 years ago
It sure has, again read some history books it's pretty clear cut. And as to your case that no one has ever been prosecuted, Yukio Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor for waterboarding. And besides how would you even know that it dosent cause any marks? Put your money where your mouth is and lets see some proof.
AdmiralShat 2 years ago
NOPE Dope, you can spin if you want to... other people can believe your lies too.
NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN SENTENCED/PROSECUTED FOR WATERBOARDING. Sorry PAL, his other crimes are there and thats fine, just because you think the sentencing was for waterboarding don't make it so.
Carry-on.
grrgto 2 years ago
Where is the benefit from being a GOP bum-boy and Faux Noise watcher?
Neville6000 2 years ago
(cont'd) It is also common sense that ANY treaty that we sign and ratify and is in effect requires us to be bound to it. It would make NO sense to sign a climate change treaty, for example, sign it, ratify it, and then say we are not bound by it - just because we are dealing with a treaty that relates to wartime rather than one dealing with climate change doesn't mean the PROCEDURE isn't the same - therefore we are STILL bound to the treaty no matter what.
technicschic 2 years ago
blah blah blah
grrgto 2 years ago
(cont'd) Unfortunately Al Qaeda is NOT a nation-state and did NOT sign the treaties, so they are NOT required to be bound by it. Al that is required for US to be bound by it is to sign the treaty and ratify it. Then we would be bound by it NO MATTER WHO WE'RE FIGHTING. Just because the country we're fighting didn't sign it doesn't mean we can just ignore the fact that WE are signatories. About "report to God", the Founders were Deists, they did NOT believe that God interfered with THIS life
technicschic 2 years ago
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techNOTinSync:
You talk too F-ING much with out saying anything at all.
Everyone that read you flap is now dumber and may never recover!
grrgto 2 years ago
Sorry Jay,
Those terrorists were there Since CARTER!
The recent torture events did not get used to recruit for the Kobar Towers, USS Cole, 1st WTC Bombing or the Planes on 9/11.
You are Wrong JAY!!!!
I do however, agree with you that we don't HAVE to use torture, we don't HAVE to put them in cells if they did not commit violence upon freedom either.
Telling our enemies that we did Waterboard is stupid, Waterboarding 3 people.....? Give me a break.
grrgto 2 years ago
I agree with Jay Bagwell, and I respectfully disagree with those who do not.
freewebjunk 2 years ago
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You wanna see some dude get his NUTS BURNED in a flame trick accident??? check it out on my page!!!!
markanddrockshow 2 years ago
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You just know this Bagwell fucker was a big-time torturer.
Send this war criminal to the Hague.
patsagainstrats 2 years ago
ok, ok.. OK... Anybody else thought this guy would be the humanized Voldamort?
mtregonning 2 years ago
Finally we get authentic information form people who've served -- unlike the blowhards Dick Cheney and his daughter Cheneylette -- who speak thinktanked words constructed to deceive and recast American use of systematic torture, ordered by Dick Cheney, as righteous and for the good of our safety. Please, American Military vets, continue to speak out against the "civilian leadership" liars -- and war criminals, most notably 6-deferrments Cheney, who has never risked his life for anything.
quicksite 2 years ago 5
Right on!
pashinette 2 years ago
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It's kind of funny that we have to follow the geneva convention but nobody else does. Who gives a shit if they were tortured. Their comrades executed dozens of Americans on camera and showed it proudly off to people all over the world. We need to harden the fuck up. Only a fucking Army POG would talk bull shit like this.
coolhandchuck 2 years ago
Comment removed
libradaj 2 years ago
Numbnut - we SIGNED and RATIFIED the Geneva Conventions - that means, under our CONSTITUTION, we are bound to them. Al Qaeda, not being a nation-state and not being a signatory to the Convention, is NOT bound to them. We shouldn't be whining about not being able to bring ourselves down to THEIR LEVEL.
technicschic 2 years ago
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who knew you could crap out of your mouth. Interesting
bluesscore 2 years ago
Sad how libs can't take repsonsibility for their own actions.
grrgto 2 years ago
sad how your hero nugent, went to great lengths to get his draft deferment, and is a child molester. Your hero, a life long war supporter, decided not to do the ultimate form of patriotism, serve in the military. He went to his military physical in shit filled pants after not bathing for a month, wearing the same clothes.
Google, Courtney love and ted nugent. That draft dodging coward needs to be locked up with the rest of the child molesters.
MyGodMoreGooder 2 years ago
Could care less about the messenger.
I am more concerned with the message.
Typical lib, can't win an argument so you find fault with an unrelated value of the person.
Facts are facts, Ted's 2nd ammendment message is rigjt on... get over it, or we could split the country if you want. You guys get no guns and we get to keep ours....???
grrgto 2 years ago
The only time in recent history when Gun rights, 2nd amendment, were violated was under GW during Katrina.
Dispute that fact!!!!!!!!
Frank Viet Combat Vet 1969
fmazurk 2 years ago
Thanks Jay! It is time this Band of Brothers to help steer our country back on course.
Bill- Veteran USAF
beardog321 2 years ago 14