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From: SuzDoyleMusic
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  • good stuff

  • Thanks!!! I have been studying Jazz Theory for over a year!! This has really helped me refresh my memory and theory!! God Bless!!

  • the 11th in a chord iplies the omission of the third, because the third is an important higher note and the 11th is a tension note which scrapes against the third (querstand, i dunno the english word).

    a 13th in a chord implies a third with the omission of the 11th.one exception is in a minor chord, where the 9th, despite the "querstand", is not usually omitted but seperated by an octave. the 11th is ok with the third in minor chords.

    

  • @DoubleReeds another exception is the sharp 11th (#11), which also leaves the third alone - and the fifth is not as important a note as the third, so the resulting "querstand" is ok.

    another complete exception is bebop, where chords are often played with 11ths and thirds, but otherwise they tend to cancel each other.

  • @DoubleReeds Good perspectives and info -- thank you! :-)

  • @SuzDoyleMusic no probs :)

  • @DoubleReeds Querstand = dissonance

  • @kamikaze90watermelon no not quite, of course there is always dissonance in any chord or interval other than unisons or octaves, especially when dealing with jazz extensions. a querstand is specifically the dissonance between two tones which are a minor second apart.

  • Well that's just what I needed. I am self learning guitar. I love blues and funk which seem to spend most of the time playing 7,9, @ 13 chords.

  • Greetin's! Nice little ditty on 13ths, I was wondering how to play that beast. Though, just for funzies, you say at the end that 7, 9, 11, and 13 are the only numbers you'll see after a chord -- au contraire, lest we forget the mighty 6th (and sus4!) ;)

  • @lobstertexas Good point. I should have said "most of the time" chords would have a 7, 9, 11 or 13. And that other times you might see chords with an added (or suspended) 2, 4, or 6. Thanks for pointing that out! :-)

  • @SuzDoyleMusic you even get 10 as in b10, sometimes instead of #9.

  • @lobstertexas au contraire, Isn't the 6th chord just the 13th played an octive lower and likewise a sus 4 an 11th played an octave lower?

  • MIND BLOWN when you showed why it's only 7 9 11 13 and not 8 10 12. Great lesson!

  • @richml1992 Thanks! I was very excited when I figured it out! I think it's pretty cool!

  • good lesson!!

    cheers!!!

  • @bboyfabolous1994 Thank you! Enjoy! Suz

  • This blew my mind. And I'm studying (failing) Voice leading and Diatonicism. Yep, I'm rubbish at theory. Thanks for posting!

  • @theinck Yahoo! Glad you found this helpful. Hope theory gets easier! :-)

  • @SuzDoyleMusic P.S. I took music theory in college and considered much of it tedious, pedantic, "busy work" kind of info, rather than practical performing musician info. Hence my quest to provide videos with what I consider to be more "user friend, practical" music theory. Huzzah!

  • thanks 4 this video ... im learning and this really helped me...

  • @jose200043 You betcha! Have fun! :-)

  • This was helpful, as I can play the piano pretty well, but have zero music theory knowledge. One question: Are there actually people out there that can play a 13th? I can reach a 12th comfortably, which I guess no one would ever play, but reaching a 13th would be really hard for me, and I have huge hands.

  • @TAYC34 Thanks for your comment and question. A 13 chord is made out of 1 3 5 b7 9 11 and 13 -- which is obviously WAY too many notes to play at once! So people choose the most important 3 or 4 notes to play, which is often (in the case of C13): The 1 (C) in the left hand (bass note) and the b7 (Bb) 3 (E) and 13 (A) in the right hand. Generally, 3, 7 and 9 (or 13) are the most important defining notes in a chord. :-)

  • @SuzDoyleMusic This is what baffles me about music theory (despite over 10 years with it as a kid). The words "often" or "usually" or "by convention" or "most important" seem to come up a lot. What happens if you do or do not want specific "interior" notes? What happens if you want a different inversion? Or if you're not in a strictly "western" major/minor scale? I'm sure someone's figured it out, but I'm terrified of what it must look like to read. ;)

    Thanks for the post though, it helps!

  • @TheMindOfPat - Excellent question! I think everything in life (including music theory) is simply made up, and becomes "a rule" only when many or most people have agreed to it. Therefore, nothing is ever absolute. The more you learn, the less absolutes there seem to be. Therefore, I say go ahead and use whatever inversions you want -- as long as they feel right to you and express what you want. And anything I share is just my best understanding, and is always open to change with new info . . .

  • At the same time, books e.g. "Planet Musician" offer helpful insights to the global music scene and diverse ways different cultures view music. The more we learn about different approaches to music theory (and life), the more our abilities expand, and the more informed our choices can be -- and, like anything, even if there are rules and agreed upon "how to's," in my view, there is always room for surprises and new ways of doing things. So experiment! Explore! See what sounds good to you! HUZZAH

  • Respond to this video...  Also, If a chord is too difficult to play the entire thing (e.g. C13), then just play the basic triad (the 1, 3 and 5), which is the foundational part of the chord and gives you the gist of it. Then later on, you can add the fancy stuff! :-)

  • @SuzDoyleMusic I was thinking that you would play the something like the 1, 5, 9, and 13 with one and, and then something else with the other hand. I just thought it would be pretty hard to span 1 to 13 with one hand. So it sounds like it would be more typical to play the 1 with the left hand, and then maybe the 7, 9, and 13 with the right hand. Or maybe the 7, 9, and 13 dropped down one octave with the left hand, and then something else with the right hand?

  • @TAYC34 The more common chord voicing is to use b7 3 and 13 (which is the same as 6 an octave above)

    so with C13, of the notes 1C 3E 5G b7Bb 9D 11F and 13 A, you would play Bb E and A (the b7, 3 and 13). For my brain, I usually think the "6 note" an octave higher, rather than 13 (easier to think of on the fly). :-)

  • You Rock !!! Thanks for sharing your knowledge !! This is what makes youtube awesome!!!

  • @jansley13 Thanks! I agree -- there are so many amazing things to learn on YouTube! Have fun w/ music! :-)

  • ....thank you !!!! thats been confusing me. 64

  • @kaspastarr You're welcome!

  • oh my gosh thank you for such a clear and friendly teaching!!! :D

  • @3unhps You're welcome. :-)

  • 13th's are an ambiguous harmony... most players omit the 11th and leave in the 3rd (in c: c,e,g,bb,d,a) but in its strictest form it is played with an 11th, the problem with doing that is if you do want the player to omit the 11th it's difficult to say it in chord terms (e min7(b5),(add a/)c in bass), however, it's easy to say it the other way, c13sus which automatically adds the 11th note... with that in mind, 13th's - i think - should always omit the 11th

  • @slapmyfunkybass Good points, Mr. Funkybass. :-) This video was intended for beginners, to show the logic behind how to build 7, 11, and 13th chords. Of course, with advanced chords, it's all about choosing which notes to play. Most commonly, people choose to play the 3, b7 & 9, or the b7, 3 and 13 (AKA 6 an octave higher). Guess that's the subject for my next video. Thanks!

  • @SuzDoyleMusic yes, you're right... i read somewhere that classical music uses the 11th for 13th chords but jazz and popular music omits it.... not sure if that's universally accepted but i always add a 3rd instead of an 11th when playing 13ths unless either the melody inplies an 11th or the chord is written as sus13... then again, i play a lot of jazz and omit the root as well...!!! great video though, keep up the good work...

  • @slapmyfunkybass Are you omitting the root on bass, or on piano? Just curious! :-) I suspect that, as with much of music, there are diverse approaches and no real standards, especially across Jazz to Classical platforms. But then again, that's part of what makes things interesting!

  • @SuzDoyleMusic i omit the root on jazz piano, though many jazz bass players do omit the root as well... though personally i don't like the bass not playing the root.... yet in solo jazz piano it seems not playing the root sounds okay, for example, c7 for me i would play b flat, e, a (not strictly a c7 chord)... sometimes the root is played though to add colour and contrast... as far as i know, i think modern jazz is the only style where its common practice to leave the root of the chord out

  • lol 3:26 souns like a gameboy adv. awesome tut

  • I don't get it. I'm just starting to learn that I play a lot of Parallel Major chords. Someone is teaching me how to play. But there style of teaching is different. They don't talk in their videos, they just play chords, and I learn them. So the question is, what if I played a c-e-c chord in my right hand or an e-g-e chord in my right. Would those be considered Parallel major 7th chords or Parallel major 8th chords? Because if I count from c to c or e to e, it takes 8 steps to go up.

  • @TheTruth285 Good question! It depends on what key you are in. If your chords have all white notes (C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am Bdim), then even though you are playing only 2 notes of a given chord, you are in the key of C (or its relative minor, Am -- which uses the same 7 chords) -- and therefore, C - E - C is really playing 2 notes of the C chord. Likewise, E - G - E would be 2 notes of either the C chord (C-E-G) or the Em chord (E-G-B). The BASS notes (e.g. C, or E) also identify the chord for you.

  • @SuzDoyleMusic I guess I understand a little. So basically, E-G-E is not even considered a chord even though its a parallel? Or I make that up with the bass note like you said. For example, in the key of C, if I play a C in my left hand, and an E-G-E chord in my right. Pretty much, the chord I'm playing would be determine starting from the bass note? So all the notes I'm playing from bass to top, C-E-G-E, the chord would circle C-E-G?

  • @TheTruth285 Usually chords have 3 notes. If you play a 2 note chord, we still "hear" the 3rd note. So a C chord (C E G) would usually have all 3 notes, even if one of them is in the bass. Not enough room here to explain more, but you can download my free factsheets that explain chords on the teaching part of my website. Youtube won't let me post a web address, but if you Google Suz Doyle Music & click on the "teaching" part of my web site, you'll find free facthseets to download & play with. 

  • @SuzDoyleMusic Ok. Thanks for your time to help me understand this. :)

  • @TheTruth285 You betcha. BTW, the link to my web site is under the video info area (just click the "more info" double arrows to the right of the video description). Good luck!

  • @SuzDoyleMusic Sorry, I had one more question. lol, sorry. But people who use parallels in their playing, would it be considered an ancient, buried playing style in todays music?

  • @TheTruth285 I don't know the answer to that. A Google search resulted in an article about parallel scales -- but for simple playing, I think starting with understanding the basic triads gives you an important foundation for then moving to more advance chords (e.g. 13ths, 9ths, etc. in which you ADD notes to the basic triad). :-)

  • To help explain this to me, I'm learning from someone on here on youtube by the name of darekpiano. It would be a help if you could break down a little bit of his playing chords, style or the playing in my videos. Thanks.

  • @TheTruth285 i think you're making it more complex than what it is... the chord will always be determined by the lowest note, you can play e and g everywhere, but if the lowest note is c then it's still a c major chord

  • I finally got the whole idea of the 13 chord! Always use the Dominant 7th!!! THANKS!!!! :-)

  • @brentduanefoster You're welcome! Enjoy!

  • excelent explanation, and i mean, EXCELENT, i was having my own doubts about dominants, but yeah, your explanation its really perfect.

  • @lautarosoad Thank you so much! :-)

  • Extremely helpful ma'am!

  • @quitetstorm Thanks! :-)

  • this was definitely helpful :) thanks :) and I'm trying to play a Bmin(add11) using what you told me, but I still can't seem to figure it out using sharps and flats...any help?

  • @yacattack20 Bm(add 11) would be made out of:

    1 b3 5 11

    B D F# E (play the E below the F#)

    -------------------- this is based on the building blocks of:

    1 b3 5 b7 9 11

    B D F# A C# E

    There are many ways to voice this. The easy way is to play 1 b3 11 and 5 (and leave out the b7 and the 9). The high number in a chord assumes all the skips down (e.g. 11 includes 9, b7, 5, b3, 1), but choose the best 3 or 4 notes to have the chord sound best to you.

  • This is RIDICULOUSLY helpful. Seriously, this was awesome. Thanks!

  • @ilovemutemath You're welcome! Glad it was helpful! :-)

  • @SuzDoyleMusic just glad you made the video.

  • @ilovemutemath Thanks!

  • Good introduction. The previous poster has a point though. Those musicians who use 9ths 11ths and 13ths generally have favoured 'voicings' that omit the more obvious harmonies, or 'invert' the chord to give cool sounding 'close harmonies'. Okay you only wanted to give the basics but its worth pointing out that the majority of higher degree chords are not actually played this way

  • @maddi62 Good point. My intention was to show the basic structure in root position, for beginners, so they can get the idea of how everything related to the basic triads. I'll make another video soon about favored voicings, e.g. how the 3 b7 and 9 are the most important and most frequently used notes in a 9 chord, and how -- but wait -- I'd best do it in the video! Thanks so much everyone, for your comments and suggestions! :-) Suz

  • Cmaj7....love to end my Doo Wop songs with a major 7th. I now know how to play C13th, Thanks again for the fun lesson!

  • @SAMSTRAY You're welcome!

  • nice video really really nice video ....thanks for show me ...BJ

  • Very, very clear explanation. Nicely done! (I subscribed!)

  • May be you need to explain that when these chords are played, certain notes can be omitted,thus not sounding muddy.

  • space and silence is very important. however, perhaps one is trying to get that muddy, wall-of-sound kinda feel. just providing the other side of the other side of the coin. :)

  • Wot planet r u from??

  • i'm going to assume that's a rhetorical question. but i don't understand where you're coming from in asking it. so maybe you could come up with a more coherent way to express your apparent grievance with my statement?

  • very nice!

  • Outstanding - I can hear the penny dropping in my head - thanks so much for this lesson

  • thanks a lot for the explanation.

    Respect ;-)

  • Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. Not sure why eHow videos are not working. I'll see if I can find out why.

    Best Regards,

    Suz

  • great vids. I've seen your writings on scribd, then I went to your website and now I'm here (I cannot watch the vids on ehow, dunno why).

    Thank you very much. I'm a beginner and I've learned a lot.

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