@hitssquad What I was arguing is the mankind seems hardwired to increase complexity, even in the face of decreasing EROEI and diminishing returns. The fact that the car companies are pushing technology with such low returns even as their business are becoming insolvent due to decreasing EROEI seems crazy. Some of them are still increasing complexity and planning for "recovery" ,it's just nuts. But then again, it seems wired into many, like a bee colony.
I should state that unless this is the final goal and a clear strategy exists to achieve this goal it is highly unlikely that the scenario I have provided could ever exist.
Great video by the way. Just a thought. If I could be a devils advocate for a moment. If you assume for example that the steering wheels where removed from the automobile, and the gas pedal and the breaks, and the cars on the road were driven by a large centralized computer, that would potentially remove the need for stop lights, road signs, stopping or slowing down en route, traffic jams, and a variety of other problems that exist now and are not particularly efficient.
I used to get upset about the state of our police and social service doing such an appalling job, and then I applied this principle and realised they too are subject to the law of diminishing returns rather than just being malevolent, which is what I had first concluded.
Excellent point, mechanical is better, they want to improve gas mileage using computer control. What they didn't account for is something wrong in the con troller state machine or the state machine can be faked out by bad or noisy input.
For example, a GM car with the thermal sensor disconnected or using a bad connection, it applies full choke, bucks and stalls, very dangerous when this occurs, trying to cross lanes of traffic, it can get you killed. The state machine see's only a cold engine assumes the engine need full choke even though your going 20mph the it been running for the last hour. Stupid programmers.
You make some good anolgies for the law of dimishing Returns. Especialy the beer. Dimishing Returns and Jevron's Paradox is equaly critical in getting the picture of these systems.
I think Jevron's Paradox shows us that increasing the fuel supply has resulted in more people. I had heard the Chicoms estimate that their Population controll policy has resulted in 500 million less chinese. so if they had not done it the world would be over 7 billion now.
All technology are tools. Tools have no inherent benefit or detriment, that is in how they are used. The application of a tool is only a reflection of the intent, awareness and level of responsibility of the one using it.
@TheNewRenaissance This is precisely my point. We need to think more and not just implement everything that we can. Thinks should not become necessary just because they are possible.
Interesting you bring that up. I have a 09 Toyota Matrix, Fortunely I got one with manual transmission, so I am use to shifting in and out of gear. If there was a sudden acceleration surge I would simply pop it out of gear. I haven't taken it in for the recall yet because I think the early recall is just putting something on the accerleator so I am waiting for a better fix.
@valhala56 I think there is a vastly more fundamental issue as illustrated by your Matrix and choice of a manual transmission. I think the mistake of the drive by wire engineers is trying to remove the responsibility of the tool's operator. They are trying to engineer wisdom into the tool at the expense of the dignity of the person using the tool.
5:33 "Now there's been a series of fatal accidents caused by this technology"
Are you familiar with the FARS website?
w w w-fars. nhtsa. dot. gov
Did you notice the fatality-rates have been going down for at least half a century...
google. com/images?q=highway+fatality+rates+1950
...and especially in the last half-decade? This most-recent plummet is due to the recent rapid-adoption of ESC...
iihs. org/ratings/esc/esc. aspx
...a safety technology that requires throttle-by-wire.
hitssquad 1 year ago
@hitssquad What I was arguing is the mankind seems hardwired to increase complexity, even in the face of decreasing EROEI and diminishing returns. The fact that the car companies are pushing technology with such low returns even as their business are becoming insolvent due to decreasing EROEI seems crazy. Some of them are still increasing complexity and planning for "recovery" ,it's just nuts. But then again, it seems wired into many, like a bee colony.
bigcollapso 1 year ago
quicksand.
whippoorwillss 1 year ago
I should state that unless this is the final goal and a clear strategy exists to achieve this goal it is highly unlikely that the scenario I have provided could ever exist.
yogiudo 1 year ago
Great video by the way. Just a thought. If I could be a devils advocate for a moment. If you assume for example that the steering wheels where removed from the automobile, and the gas pedal and the breaks, and the cars on the road were driven by a large centralized computer, that would potentially remove the need for stop lights, road signs, stopping or slowing down en route, traffic jams, and a variety of other problems that exist now and are not particularly efficient.
Who knows?
yogiudo 1 year ago
@yogiudo And this would SAVE energy compared to putting the cars on a train???
bigcollapso 1 year ago
@bigcollapso It might if we had to build that many rail ways.
I am fairly confident that laying ash-fault is more efficient than smelting iron.
I could be wrong though.
Neither here nor there cause its all going to fall apart
yogiudo 1 year ago
I used to get upset about the state of our police and social service doing such an appalling job, and then I applied this principle and realised they too are subject to the law of diminishing returns rather than just being malevolent, which is what I had first concluded.
emmazedbend 1 year ago
Excellent point, mechanical is better, they want to improve gas mileage using computer control. What they didn't account for is something wrong in the con troller state machine or the state machine can be faked out by bad or noisy input.
ad2181 1 year ago
For example, a GM car with the thermal sensor disconnected or using a bad connection, it applies full choke, bucks and stalls, very dangerous when this occurs, trying to cross lanes of traffic, it can get you killed. The state machine see's only a cold engine assumes the engine need full choke even though your going 20mph the it been running for the last hour. Stupid programmers.
ad2181 1 year ago
You make some good anolgies for the law of dimishing Returns. Especialy the beer. Dimishing Returns and Jevron's Paradox is equaly critical in getting the picture of these systems.
I think Jevron's Paradox shows us that increasing the fuel supply has resulted in more people. I had heard the Chicoms estimate that their Population controll policy has resulted in 500 million less chinese. so if they had not done it the world would be over 7 billion now.
valhala56 1 year ago
All technology are tools. Tools have no inherent benefit or detriment, that is in how they are used. The application of a tool is only a reflection of the intent, awareness and level of responsibility of the one using it.
TheNewRenaissance 1 year ago
@TheNewRenaissance This is precisely my point. We need to think more and not just implement everything that we can. Thinks should not become necessary just because they are possible.
bigcollapso 1 year ago
Interesting you bring that up. I have a 09 Toyota Matrix, Fortunely I got one with manual transmission, so I am use to shifting in and out of gear. If there was a sudden acceleration surge I would simply pop it out of gear. I haven't taken it in for the recall yet because I think the early recall is just putting something on the accerleator so I am waiting for a better fix.
valhala56 1 year ago
@valhala56 I think there is a vastly more fundamental issue as illustrated by your Matrix and choice of a manual transmission. I think the mistake of the drive by wire engineers is trying to remove the responsibility of the tool's operator. They are trying to engineer wisdom into the tool at the expense of the dignity of the person using the tool.
TheNewRenaissance 1 year ago