Addiction: What to Do When Everything Else has Failed

[Happypast]

Very interesting.

So what does Mr Alexander propose we do? Make people less dislocated? how?

[DavidEdwardSchnell]

Are they are in a quonset hut or a silo?

[TheQedqubit]

weird how they still refuse to recognise biofeedback as a tool to facilitate selfreflection to a subconscious level, then use nlp to rewire yourself consciously.

[Happypast]

@TheQedqubit I have no idea what you're talking about but please tell me more :)

[TheQedqubit]

@Happypast using biofeedback people can learn to consciously control their heartrate, bloodpressure, and even brainwaves.(see playlist on my channel) emotiv.com sells the cheapes best consumer device for that.it can be used to train meditative states and put in your own desired selfhypnosis suggestions you may have picked while learning nlp, neurolinguistic programming (check out some Richard Bandler videos)

[Happypast]

@TheQedqubit okey thanks :)

[GoneRoverBoard]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the biggest addiction of all? Addiction to Power

[Paseosinperro]

What's is new in this "adiction is the result of an empty life"? Is presented as the great discovery, this is what should be worried about, that simple things are now "uh, the great discovery". It shows how lost we are.

[JobLeonard]

@Paseosinperro People have to reinvent the wheel all the time. While that is sad, be happy that they do, or we would soon be out of wheels.

[Paseosinperro]

@JobLeonard im spanish i don't undertand the expressions "reinvent the wheel" or "be out of wheels". My point is that is just obvious, I mean whtas new about this. I want to go to the RSA, say these obvious things, and take all the money fom the conference

[sylve6]

Restrictions on drugs only change the price. If you decriminalize and legalize all shit it will be not profitable run that business. No sales and service for users real helps. Afghanistan produced 70% of the world’s opium as raw material for heroin. When you get all military there, it increases to 90%. No money = no drugs Make it free and you have no smugglers ore growers. Marijuana? I think you need a joint for blowing away your indoctrinated mind.

[sylve6]

I meant that Marijuana blows away indoctrination from your mind. Change your values and governments bull shit exposed by TV doesn't make any sense any more, thats why it is so ”dangerous” no one ever die from that and it is not physically addictive at all.

[rlee64]

As a "recovering" addict - I can attest to this for myself: I've found a comfortable dislocation in my personal anomie. When you shake hands with the void - it puts everything into a manageable perspective and context. When I work with others, I try and help folks to see the possibilities of that mindset working for them as well. It's a slow walk - but then those are the worthwhile walks to take aren't they?

[JanusHorus]

ADDICTIONS include the WORST one:MONEY,CASH...

[600euros]

nurturing intimate, meaningful bonds with people in this fragmented, globalized, post-modern world is extremely necessary for spiritual growth. this requires a courage to be more vulnerable than we were ever given the impression of with others. so important. i grew up in numerous countries, with parents of different nationalities (east and west), and i'm also gay, i know exactly what 'dislocation' is. i can see it all around. it is a void and people need to learn how to fill it without addiction

[600euros]

addiction (to drugs, porn, food, anything external) is a signal to listen to your needs more deeply and to do the spiritual work of honoring them out of love. no, this is not blindly adopting religion although this is how religion does its recruiting. this is hard work but it's the only worthwhile struggle in life and a beautiful one. i am not religious and through psychology, art, self-expression and yes, reading spiritual texts from both east and west, i have seen my own addictions fall away.

[flannery2oo9]

Ibogaine

[Fuliginosus]

Do you think he's wearing a wig?

[Glickstick]

I am truly addicted to the internet. I spend so much time on internet, into the early hours of the morning. Forums, Video games, Porn, Torrents. I think there are a lot of people (usually introverts by nature) who spend a seriously unhealthy amount of time on the internet. I'm getting my family and friends to help me but it's a really difficult problem. Kind of ironic because i'm looking for help on the internet. A lot of people think it's a joke.. but it's ruining my life...

[technicallyabsurd]

@Glickstick I'm also addicted to the internet...if it weren't for the pleasures of sex and food I'd probably plug my mind into it forever if possible

[Agemoz]

He is full of shit.

[dookiecheez]

"A realistic goal" is deciding for once in history to listen to what peer reviewed literature demonstrates about drugs, and taking notes from countries whose drug policies are immensely effective.

[IWantSoundKnowledge]

FUCK PROHIBITION!

[bennettosu]

Didn't Durkheim coin this idea when he observed Anomie? Its frustrating when someone develops an idea and believe it to be original without checking the most classic works.

[maplelander]

@bennettosu Hi, I'm terribly uninformed but would you mind telling me the book in which Durkheim broached this idea?

[gjesmok]

@maplelander suicide

[saainnigampen]

I was on a path to addiction. Mine took the form of videogames and watching television all day. The way out for me was getting a girlfriend and in a way find my place in the world. I became part of a new family, I felt that I belonged somewhere. I got a much greater sense of purpose in my life. After that all my addictions went away. I no longer feel the need to fill the emptiness in my life by indulging in addictive and pointless activities, because my life is no longer empty.

[Paseosinperro]

Yes, I agree, but if thats is the new paradigms it seems to me that we were completely lost. I mean, every child, or every sensitive, person know that. What were we thinking about if its not this?

I feel weir when such and obvious thing is presented in the RSA by a smart psycologist as the great new paradigm.

[woodbell67]

4:55

[juanky525]

Affluence is desensitizing just like depravation. The real problem is how we are unable feel or how disable emotions. Some “drug” use encourages socializing but the counter culture has all the say on the matter. It’s the lack of genuine emotional connections to our immediate communities that leads to vice. Freedom of choice and empathy could ease our dependence.

[ilike2game]

Are video games a addiction? (To me it is >.<)

[Bocbo]

"We just have to listen to them" That I belive is the solution to ALL of our ills, listening.

[weareone2012]

Iboga kills all addictions. why is it illegal in the USA?

Google Tabernanthe Iboga, Reset.

[chat099]

Marijuana is illegal but pharmaceutical companies can sell anti-depressents on TV every night where I once heard, "side effects may include increased thoughts of suicide which may lead to death," now that's perfectly legal. You only make sense if you have money on your side, apparently.

[Otokogoroshi]

@chat099 Anyone can grow pot. But only chemists can make anti-depressants. Money is a big part of why pot is kept illegal.

[omarsalem91]

I find that people who blame the problem on the illegality of drugs are really out of touch with reality. As a former drug addict myself I can say that all the contributors to societal dislocation that Alexander mentioned are very much in play. I believe that the problem lies in this individualistic culture we've created where it's every man selfishly trying to make the best for himself with full disregard for the collective effort in society which progressed us as a race to where we are now.

[kaxitaksi]

The world today is war, slavery, famine, toxic waste, racism, religious stupidity, corpocracy, sick politics and all kind of things that DON'T support our development as human beings in any way. We have built a society along those "guidelines" and it's no wonder at all that some individuals turn to alchohol and drugs. We live in a society were the majority are slaves to the banks and the production lines and no real way to change their lifes in the way they want.

[paperback333]

Addiction is very poorly understood from the general public's perspective, something that has changed for the better of the decades, but must go much further to help enable addicts to change.

Having support is needed; not negative and actually often prejudice attitudes.

"People say that a junkies addiction is a sickness, but I say who cares. The world would be a million times better off if they all just over dosed and stopped burdening the rest of the world with their sick filthy selfish habits"

[slaxor]

Remove government and there will be healthy societies.

[paperback333]

@slaxor I agree.

[Cheedillow]

The only drug problem is that they're illegal.

[Krabthegamer]

@Cheedillow Are MMOs Illegal? This is a discussion concerning the underlying problem of addiction, not the substances or practices themselves.

[Cheedillow]

@Krabthegamer

I don't think Bruce considers video games addicts to be "dislocated people".

[Krabthegamer]

@Cheedillow On the contrary. I have spent thousands upon thousands of hours on video games and consider it my main addiction and I believe the addiction to have developed as a symptom of this exact dislocation.

And it doesn't really matter what substance of practice you label as addictive or not - they all are disruptive and even lethal at some level. It is the extreme attachment to a substance or practice that is one of the symptoms of this dislocation and video games are certainly a practice.

[Cheedillow]

@Krabthegamer

So we should stop people from playing video games?

[Krabthegamer]

@Cheedillow

In no sense should we stop people from doing anything! But dislocation is a real problem and it needs to be solved.

[paperback333]

@Krabthegamer People seem to take addiction as the cause, not the effect. When in most cases it's actually the effect and symptom of dislocation or another underlying problem. Anything can be addictive mentally, some people are more likely to have certain addictions than others and other things are more likely to be addictive than others.

[madaraluka93]

@Cheedillow Well you know in the Roman empire it wasn't illegal and many emperors of Rome were using drugs which which made them desperate and depressed that's why they ruined the empire...Yeah drugs are bad if you look at it far and wide

[Cheedillow]

@madaraluka93

The Roman Empire collapsed because of Christianity, not drugs.

Also you're implying that making drugs illegal stops people from using them.

[madaraluka93]

@Cheedillow Ah this conversation is going to be very long if I start talking about history and how black and white you see.Anyway making them illegal is going to help people have less reach to drugs,that helped me.

And please don't go around justifying drugs.Every story of drug users never finished in a good way at least not good for their mental abilities

[paperback333]

@madaraluka93 The 'war' on drugs has been going on for years and has helped no one. It's not a criminal issue it's an education and medical issue. Being addicted to any drug shouldn't land you in jail - yet it very well can, and has. And yes, many drugs have helped many people while of course many drugs have harmed many people; it's ironic you talk about black and white yet you said that.

[Cheedillow]

@madaraluka93

I've taken drugs, alcohol, cannabis, mdma, shrooms and ketamine.

There is a great deal of ignorance surrounding drugs, thats why you get people overdosing and dying.

Keeping drugs illegal does not make the market disappear it only pushes it underground.

If governments and charities put as much money and effort into educating people about drugs rather than counter-productively enforcing immoral laws on the individual, there wouldn't be a drug problem.

[madaraluka93]

@Cheedillow I know I took them also.The best thing is for people not to know of them at all.But since we have a lot of information around us we should be aware.And in my opinion drugs will never help you in solving anything.And yes I have friends who are on drugs and my uncle died because of heroin use.And I have tried alcohol and marijuana because I was depressed and my mental condition even more degraded.

[Cheedillow]

@madaraluka93

I see your logic is nearly as good as your english.

[pgunn01]

@Cheedillow If a drug can be used responsibly as part of a productive life, it should probably be legal. If it cannot, a ban is reasonable.

[Cheedillow]

@pgunn01

So all drugs should be legal is what you're saying.

Even heroin "can be used responsibly as part of a productive life".

[Inferno350]

@pgunn01 Drugs should be legal because they are dangerous, not because they are safe. When they are illegal people who are addicted to it have to spend vast sums of money on it because the price of illegal goods is inflated. Prohibition makes drugs more dangerous than they have to be because they are not subject to regulations which control for purity and contamination. Prohibition also turns vulnerable people into criminals which does not help them get out of a unhealthy lifestyle.

[pgunn01]

@Inferno350 The problem with the dangerous drugs is not their cost, it's that they are too harmful to be used. Marijuana and Alcohol, for all their problems, can be used reasonably, and so we should permit them. Many other drugs: not the case.

The concerns you list really are only significant compared to the effects of the drugs for drugs that should be legal anyhow.

[Inferno350]

@pgunn01 Making dangerous drugs illegal makes them more dangerous and enriches a violent black market. Prohibition has never been successful at preventing drug use from occurring. Look at the research. I'm not talking about making heroin legal in convenience stores. There are 7 different types of legalization. It's complicated. Prohibition has failed and causes more problems on top of the drug problem. Watch the video "Did You Know: War on Drugs Edition"

[pgunn01]

@Inferno350 You could make the same argument about assassination. When something is sufficiently harmful, society should consider a complete ban, and it can deal with the side effects.

[Inferno350]

@pgunn01 No assassination is a situation where one person violates another person's right to life. Personal drug use violates no one else's rights, you only put yourself at risk. Attempting suicide is very risky, but it's not illegal. We can't use jail to try and protect people from themselves. Furthermore, your argument presumes that prohibition of dangerous drugs has been successful at protecting people from them, which it hasn't been. It's a costly, ineffective, & dangerous policy choice.

[trulez]

@Inferno350 That's load of bullshit. Drugs do affect other people around the user, because many of them have hallucinatory effects which could lead to aggressive or irrational behaviour.

[Inferno350]

@trulez You're correct that drug use can lead to behaviours that harm others like assault, but we should not criminalize the drug use because that act itself does not harm others. Assault, child neglect, murder, these are crimes because the person harms another. But the drug use itself does not hurt others, only the self. You can't criminalize someone because they might harm someone else. Otherwise you'll have to criminalize driving a car because they might drive recklessly and kill someone.

[trulez]

@Inferno350 We do actually recognize the hazard someone driving a car is on the road, that's why you have to learn to drive and have a valid license in order to drive. What I merely wanted to point out to the previous commenter is that drugs are not harmless, and if you ever hope to legalize drugs it needs to be recognized. Sugar coating the negative effects of drugs is only working against legalization.

[Inferno350]

@trulez I'm sorry I gave the impression that I was suggesting that drugs are harmless. I was merely trying to point out that the act of drug use itself does not hurt others, but I don't think anyone contests the fact that drugs can cause harm. In fact we need to legalize and properly regulate drugs because of the very fact that they are dangerous. Making them illegal puts them in the hands of violent, unaccountable organized crime which worsens the situation.

[pgunn01]

@Inferno350 Suicide is illegal in many places (although I don't think it should be); you should be careful when you proclaim the legality or illegality of acts.

Prohibition of dangerous drugs has in fact been successful at what you mention. Not 100% successful, but it has deterred many people and imposed a high cost on many others.

Unfortunately, existing policy is damaged by relatively harmless drugs (like Marijuana) being prohibited too.

Rights under the law are set by law.

[Inferno350]

@pgunn01 No prohibition hasn't been successful by any measure. Look at the research. I have been for 3 years. Prohibition has no deterrent effect on usage rates because countries with the harshest laws and highest incarceration rates do not have the lowest usage rates. It has never been successful at meaningfully disrupting the flow of drugs onto the street. We can't even keep drugs out of prison! Did you watch "Did You Know: War on Drugs Edition." Do research, then talk to me.

[Inferno350]

@pgunn01 Oh, and rights are not set by the law. Rights are inalienable. I have a right to free speech, life, movement, equal protection under the law, not to be enslaved, etc. even if my country does not recognize it. If you disagree then that makes you a moral relativist and you would have to accept that slavery was okay when the law deemed it so.

[pgunn01]

@Inferno350 Moral relativism is simply the notion that morals/rights/etc only make sense from the context of a perspective, and that these perspectives are subjective. From my perspective, slavery is not acceptable.

I'm not surprised you don't understand how moral relativism works; few moral absolutists can wrap their head around it (as it's a very different foundation, and also moral absolutists don't usually *want* to understand moral relativism)

[Inferno350]

@pgunn01 Well there are a number of ways of defining moral relativism and absolutism and there's further complications when you get to the various conclusions you could draw from them. This isn't place for philosophy debates so I shouldn't have brought it up. But please don't accuse me of being stupid or close minded. Just because I didn't automatically jump to your understanding of moral relativism doesn't mean I can't or don't *want* to.

So getting back to drug policy...

[Illkiron]

@madaraluka93 I don't think any of you know why the romans collapsed... neither does anyone for sure

[madaraluka93]

@Illkiron There are many ways through which Roman empire collapsed but desperation of their emperors(even if they had everything materialistically,they didn't have happiness,and because of that they used drugs amongst other things) had a lot of influence in destroying it...

[Illkiron]

@madaraluka93 i'm taking ancient history classes in college, and one thing I learned about history is that everything is connected, and I can assure you that drugs were not the main problem, people need to understand... the greatest power of the ancient western world took a couple of centuries to fall, wasnt from day to night

[madaraluka93]

@Illkiron That's what I am saying also.I don't want to make this into a history lesson,but drugs did affect their perception of things.I am not saying that it affected the whole empire completely.But depression and desperation did culminate for centuries and also affected the people,unhappiness which made them weak as a state in diplomacy and moral.Later it was easy prey for German tribes from the north..

What I am trying to say here is that drugs not only effect a person but the masses as well

[madaraluka93]

@madaraluka93 And I used Roman empire as an example

[Phazon77]

@Cheedillow That is one issue, yes, but it is not what generally causes a person to start relying on addictive substances for their mental and emotional well being. A person will likely turn to hard drugs because of their own personal problems, not because they want to rebel against "The Man" by doing something illegal.

[paperback333]

@Phazon77 Yes, and sadly by making it illegal you are creating even more problems because of the addiction when really the addicts are trying to deal with problems. Creating more problems to stop people from dealing with their problems is counter productive. Some people use drugs and it helps them, others can't stop themselves. Note that this can be applied to not just necessarily drug addicts but also drug users, and drug abusers.

[tibbeer]

Ive watched this while playing Call of Duty.

[warpaddict]

@tibbeer LOL same here, search and destroy FTW

[ACatWithADogsName]

1st?

Well, something like that can't be said on an RSA video...