It is not of interest to me if this procedure is needed. What is of interest to me is that these people need to leave the orca alone and it NEVER should have been in that horrific aqaurium in the first place.
There is nothing natural about killer whales breaking their teeth on steel gates. This is a (tragic) consequence of captivity, and is related to the concrete and steel enclosures we confine them in.
When a captive fractures its teeth on steel bars when jaw popping, it knocks off the enamel and exposes the soft fleshy pulp. This soft tissue begins to decay and forms a pocket where food plugging occurs. The vets drill out the core. This is called a pulpotomy. The soft tissue is removed, but food still gets into the bore holes. Trainers flush the teeth 2-3 times daily to prevent systemic infection... Like the one that killed Kalina.
From our point of view, I can see how this may be seen as acceptable or necessary to perform this procedure.
But lets think about this from a different pov for a moment -
1) It could be been prevented if LP had LISTENED to SW in the first place, and used the expensive paint.
2) From Keto's POV, having never been trained for this, he was obviously confused and stressed out. Any "bonds" that he may have had would've been broken. I doubt he trusts any of them now. HE didn't know it was necessary.
@FreedomForOrcas - Not only that, but LP allows people who work there to film these procedures... EXCEPT the teeth drilling. So if you think THIS is bad, I wonder how bad getting their teeth drilled down to the pulp with no anaesthetic must be.
@FreedomForOrcas There's a lot of pictures on flickr of the trainers cleaning the orca's teeth and some of the vets fixing them; it is good to avoid a lot of diseases. I don't see what is wrong to film that procedure, if it wasn't, all the anti-captive people would be saying the park is hidding information or moments like this one. Seems like the only thing you all want is something to complain about.
@FreedomForOrcas Why drill the teeth that much? Can you prove they do it when it is not to fix a teeth? I've seen with my own eyes the trainers cleaning the orca's teeth and they use an electric brush (I don't know if it's the right word for english) that looks like the ones we (humans) use.
@Corkian - No one knows why they drill orca teeth. People think it may be because when an orca cracks its tooth on, say, a metal gate, the trainers drill it down to the pulp.
A former SeaWorld trainer stated... (next reply, can't fit it in here)...
@Corkian ”The whales are conditioned to “accept” the noise, heat, vibration and obvious pain associated with drilling vertically through the tooth column and into the fleshy pulp below. Success is measured by blood spilling out of the hole, in which case it’s apparent the bore is complete.”
A former trainer, who has DONE this sort of work, has said this. Don't ask me why they do it, I honestly don't know.
@FreedomForOrcas A trainer from Loro Parque? Who? And if so... I think you should be able to see the 'damage' in the teeth. The noise is not very loud and the vibration is not so strong. I think that procedure is useless, if you think about how much the vets care about the teeth of the animals .Tokitae at MSQ had a teeth disease at the begining of the year; even the tank she has makes me wanna cry the vets could save her before she could get worse and die; and all because of a teeth disease.
@Corkian - It wasn't a trainer that filmed it, but she worked there with the trainers nonetheless. Her name's Suzanne Allee and she was an audiovisual technician working at LP. The procedure is essentially useless, but parks do it anyway. According to Shouka's trainers, they do it as a "preventative" measure (meaning, they remove the tooth before the orca breaks it themselves). Someone would need to go to Loro Parque and photograph the orcas mouths close up to see if there is any dental work.
@FreedomForOrcas If it's useless and painful, I don't think it is really done... Sorry but it's my opinion. I could see Keto's mouth close up three years ago (I know it seems a lot of time but I'm refering to the fact that I saw it) and it had some half-broken teeth, some 100% healthy ones and some missing. I think it's normal due the orca's dental characteristics (there's a little space beetween every teeth) that some of them get damaged.
@Corkian - Sorry but thinking is different to knowing. Fact is, Shouka's trainers have said this year that teeth drilling is a common practice and they use it on Shouka often, as other parks do it as well. It's on youtube somewhere, have a search for it. Several other trainers have stated themselves that they perform teeth drilling on orcas at SeaWorld. It still goes on.
@FreedomForOrcas I found a video and I don't find it very... Trustworthy. And wouldn't be the first time people say the trainers themselves did something but they didn't. The way the broken or damaged teeth look in every orca is so different that it's strange to think they were damaged in the same way, and creating a risk for orca's health. Everything trainers do to the whales has to have some logic, but this one is just pointless.
@Corkian - It's a video recording of Shouka's trainer stating that they drill the teeth in case she breaks them. How is that not trustworthy? Sorry, but you cannot just pick and choose which sources you trust and don't trust. Are you sure you found the right video?
@FreedomForOrcas I found another video, thank you for post this one. Looks like trying to fix the broken ones, I found the logic. Think about this: if the tooth is broken and it gets infected, vets need a way to heal it. But I don't think this is performed in EVERY tooth of EVERY whale, just in case they need it. t looks painful, like the procedure on this video... But think about what is better: a moment of pain or a terrible illness.
@Corkian - Shouka's trainers preemptively drilled Shouka's teeth. They weren't broken or cracked at all, and the video I linked has them saying that.
They may not drill every tooth, however drilling is dangerous and poses many health threats to the orcas. Diseases can get into the holes and kill them, which is why they have their teeth flushed. Tilly has his flushed twice daily. It's an unnecessary and painful procedure.
@FreedomForOrcas Think about if the holes in the teeth are big enough to create a disease but too small to get the brush inside and clean it, it can be a big problem. If the drilling is performed everyday, why aren't all the teeth damaged? They may be cleaned with the electric brush, but drilling is more used to fix the teeth when they are broken or infected...
@Corkian - No, drilling is not performed everyday. They do it several times to specific teeth until the hole is large enough to fit the tooth flushing tube.
@Corkian At SW the device used to flush the teeth is a modified WaterPik with an extension hose. It is not a brush. It is a slender straight tube with a nozzle. The reservoir is filled with Betadine solution and the tube is inserted into the bore hole,down thru the tooth and into the jaw. With an animal like Tilikum, this is done 2-3 times daily. To be drilled (called a pulpotomy), the tooth must be damaged. Healthy teeth are not drilled. Captives damage teeth on gates via jaw popping.
Ah, finally this video in YouTube. I've seen it in Facebook and other pages, everyone is saying the procedure is cruel and blah blah blah... Come on, if they are doing it is because he NEEDS it! I know how bad it feels when the doctors have to do it to you and that's why he's moving a lot and trying to get the bit out of his mouth. I hope this won't be a video full of the anti-caps coments... Thanks for upload it!
@PapaOlsen I don't follow the reasoning that because it was performed on the other 3 that this makes it more acceptable. Yes, all the whales had tubes (with cameras) forced into their stomachs to visualize man-made paint chips and strips that they were pulling off of the concrete pond. Akin to how teeth flushing is called "superior dental care" I guess these animals should feel honored to have access to delicious paint chips and amateur gastrointestinal services.
An endoscopy is a common procedure among captive orcas, most of the whales are trained to willingly accept the probe without problem, and the procedure is generally easy going with only minor discomfort (similiar to an EGD on a human). Keto was obviously not trained ahead of time for this procedure which is why he is fussing so much, it's doubtful that it hurt him, he just wasnt aware what was going on. Similiar to having to hold a 5 year old kid down to get their shots.
@flargmuffin92 Endoscopy is not a common procedure with captive killer whales. Sad that they needed to do this procedure to check for foreign objects, in this case paint chips in his gastrointestinal tract.
@RingneckDoveFan I can recall a video of it being done on one of the SWC whales, I guess "common" wasn't necessarily the right word to use, but is on occasion performed if needbe. Regardless of whether it's common or not, its not nearly as "bad" as so many people are making it out to be (seen it already being badmouthed on numerous forums and whatnot).
lol tell me about it. Shalesta acts like its some new form of torture.
Uh hello... whales eat paint chips, trainers get camera to see effects. Turns out whales are fine. It's not a big deal like everyone makes it out to be. & apparently he is being 'mishandled' as well. Sheesh, give the goddam facility a break. This is why zoos keep everything private. Ignorant people like to make it a much bigger deal than it actually is.
It is not of interest to me if this procedure is needed. What is of interest to me is that these people need to leave the orca alone and it NEVER should have been in that horrific aqaurium in the first place.
Paarsezwaan 3 months ago 2
can't they use a better way to do that?
KingsProduction50 4 months ago
There is nothing natural about killer whales breaking their teeth on steel gates. This is a (tragic) consequence of captivity, and is related to the concrete and steel enclosures we confine them in.
Shalesta 7 months ago 2
When a captive fractures its teeth on steel bars when jaw popping, it knocks off the enamel and exposes the soft fleshy pulp. This soft tissue begins to decay and forms a pocket where food plugging occurs. The vets drill out the core. This is called a pulpotomy. The soft tissue is removed, but food still gets into the bore holes. Trainers flush the teeth 2-3 times daily to prevent systemic infection... Like the one that killed Kalina.
Shalesta 7 months ago
From our point of view, I can see how this may be seen as acceptable or necessary to perform this procedure.
But lets think about this from a different pov for a moment -
1) It could be been prevented if LP had LISTENED to SW in the first place, and used the expensive paint.
2) From Keto's POV, having never been trained for this, he was obviously confused and stressed out. Any "bonds" that he may have had would've been broken. I doubt he trusts any of them now. HE didn't know it was necessary.
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas - Not only that, but LP allows people who work there to film these procedures... EXCEPT the teeth drilling. So if you think THIS is bad, I wonder how bad getting their teeth drilled down to the pulp with no anaesthetic must be.
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas There's a lot of pictures on flickr of the trainers cleaning the orca's teeth and some of the vets fixing them; it is good to avoid a lot of diseases. I don't see what is wrong to film that procedure, if it wasn't, all the anti-captive people would be saying the park is hidding information or moments like this one. Seems like the only thing you all want is something to complain about.
Corkian 7 months ago
@Corkian - It's done without anaesthetic, and they drill the teeth down to the pulp, then flush it out. You do the math...
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas Why drill the teeth that much? Can you prove they do it when it is not to fix a teeth? I've seen with my own eyes the trainers cleaning the orca's teeth and they use an electric brush (I don't know if it's the right word for english) that looks like the ones we (humans) use.
Corkian 7 months ago
@Corkian - No one knows why they drill orca teeth. People think it may be because when an orca cracks its tooth on, say, a metal gate, the trainers drill it down to the pulp.
A former SeaWorld trainer stated... (next reply, can't fit it in here)...
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
@Corkian ”The whales are conditioned to “accept” the noise, heat, vibration and obvious pain associated with drilling vertically through the tooth column and into the fleshy pulp below. Success is measured by blood spilling out of the hole, in which case it’s apparent the bore is complete.”
A former trainer, who has DONE this sort of work, has said this. Don't ask me why they do it, I honestly don't know.
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas A trainer from Loro Parque? Who? And if so... I think you should be able to see the 'damage' in the teeth. The noise is not very loud and the vibration is not so strong. I think that procedure is useless, if you think about how much the vets care about the teeth of the animals .Tokitae at MSQ had a teeth disease at the begining of the year; even the tank she has makes me wanna cry the vets could save her before she could get worse and die; and all because of a teeth disease.
Corkian 7 months ago
@Corkian - It wasn't a trainer that filmed it, but she worked there with the trainers nonetheless. Her name's Suzanne Allee and she was an audiovisual technician working at LP. The procedure is essentially useless, but parks do it anyway. According to Shouka's trainers, they do it as a "preventative" measure (meaning, they remove the tooth before the orca breaks it themselves). Someone would need to go to Loro Parque and photograph the orcas mouths close up to see if there is any dental work.
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas If it's useless and painful, I don't think it is really done... Sorry but it's my opinion. I could see Keto's mouth close up three years ago (I know it seems a lot of time but I'm refering to the fact that I saw it) and it had some half-broken teeth, some 100% healthy ones and some missing. I think it's normal due the orca's dental characteristics (there's a little space beetween every teeth) that some of them get damaged.
Corkian 7 months ago
@Corkian - Sorry but thinking is different to knowing. Fact is, Shouka's trainers have said this year that teeth drilling is a common practice and they use it on Shouka often, as other parks do it as well. It's on youtube somewhere, have a search for it. Several other trainers have stated themselves that they perform teeth drilling on orcas at SeaWorld. It still goes on.
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas I found a video and I don't find it very... Trustworthy. And wouldn't be the first time people say the trainers themselves did something but they didn't. The way the broken or damaged teeth look in every orca is so different that it's strange to think they were damaged in the same way, and creating a risk for orca's health. Everything trainers do to the whales has to have some logic, but this one is just pointless.
Corkian 7 months ago
@Corkian - It's a video recording of Shouka's trainer stating that they drill the teeth in case she breaks them. How is that not trustworthy? Sorry, but you cannot just pick and choose which sources you trust and don't trust. Are you sure you found the right video?
Here - watch?v=l2q_CzOuXEc
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas I found another video, thank you for post this one. Looks like trying to fix the broken ones, I found the logic. Think about this: if the tooth is broken and it gets infected, vets need a way to heal it. But I don't think this is performed in EVERY tooth of EVERY whale, just in case they need it. t looks painful, like the procedure on this video... But think about what is better: a moment of pain or a terrible illness.
Corkian 6 months ago
@Corkian - Shouka's trainers preemptively drilled Shouka's teeth. They weren't broken or cracked at all, and the video I linked has them saying that.
They may not drill every tooth, however drilling is dangerous and poses many health threats to the orcas. Diseases can get into the holes and kill them, which is why they have their teeth flushed. Tilly has his flushed twice daily. It's an unnecessary and painful procedure.
FreedomForOrcas 6 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas Think about if the holes in the teeth are big enough to create a disease but too small to get the brush inside and clean it, it can be a big problem. If the drilling is performed everyday, why aren't all the teeth damaged? They may be cleaned with the electric brush, but drilling is more used to fix the teeth when they are broken or infected...
Corkian 6 months ago
@Corkian - No, drilling is not performed everyday. They do it several times to specific teeth until the hole is large enough to fit the tooth flushing tube.
FreedomForOrcas 6 months ago
@Corkian At SW the device used to flush the teeth is a modified WaterPik with an extension hose. It is not a brush. It is a slender straight tube with a nozzle. The reservoir is filled with Betadine solution and the tube is inserted into the bore hole,down thru the tooth and into the jaw. With an animal like Tilikum, this is done 2-3 times daily. To be drilled (called a pulpotomy), the tooth must be damaged. Healthy teeth are not drilled. Captives damage teeth on gates via jaw popping.
Shalesta 6 months ago
Ah, finally this video in YouTube. I've seen it in Facebook and other pages, everyone is saying the procedure is cruel and blah blah blah... Come on, if they are doing it is because he NEEDS it! I know how bad it feels when the doctors have to do it to you and that's why he's moving a lot and trying to get the bit out of his mouth. I hope this won't be a video full of the anti-caps coments... Thanks for upload it!
Corkian 7 months ago
This procedure was not just done to Keto, but the other 3 whales as well.
PapaOlsen 7 months ago 7
@PapaOlsen I don't follow the reasoning that because it was performed on the other 3 that this makes it more acceptable. Yes, all the whales had tubes (with cameras) forced into their stomachs to visualize man-made paint chips and strips that they were pulling off of the concrete pond. Akin to how teeth flushing is called "superior dental care" I guess these animals should feel honored to have access to delicious paint chips and amateur gastrointestinal services.
Shalesta 7 months ago 4
He was not being mishandled.
PapaOlsen 7 months ago 2
An endoscopy is a common procedure among captive orcas, most of the whales are trained to willingly accept the probe without problem, and the procedure is generally easy going with only minor discomfort (similiar to an EGD on a human). Keto was obviously not trained ahead of time for this procedure which is why he is fussing so much, it's doubtful that it hurt him, he just wasnt aware what was going on. Similiar to having to hold a 5 year old kid down to get their shots.
flargmuffin92 7 months ago
@flargmuffin92 Endoscopy is not a common procedure with captive killer whales. Sad that they needed to do this procedure to check for foreign objects, in this case paint chips in his gastrointestinal tract.
Shalesta 7 months ago
@flargmuffin92
They only do this as an emergancy procedure. Otherwise, their is no reason to look into a whale's gastrointestinal tract. It is not common.
This procedure was done 5 years ago to the LP whales and has not been done since.
RingneckDoveFan 7 months ago 2
@RingneckDoveFan I can recall a video of it being done on one of the SWC whales, I guess "common" wasn't necessarily the right word to use, but is on occasion performed if needbe. Regardless of whether it's common or not, its not nearly as "bad" as so many people are making it out to be (seen it already being badmouthed on numerous forums and whatnot).
flargmuffin92 7 months ago
@flargmuffin92
lol tell me about it. Shalesta acts like its some new form of torture.
Uh hello... whales eat paint chips, trainers get camera to see effects. Turns out whales are fine. It's not a big deal like everyone makes it out to be. & apparently he is being 'mishandled' as well. Sheesh, give the goddam facility a break. This is why zoos keep everything private. Ignorant people like to make it a much bigger deal than it actually is.
And tooth care has nothing to do w/ this.
RingneckDoveFan 7 months ago
outsideonline com/featured-videos/Keto-Endoscopy.
html
Platinum1981 7 months ago
This is the end of the procedure seen here. Full footage is on outsideonline
Platinum1981 7 months ago
do you have more footage?
TheShamuLova 7 months ago