Islam only managed to equal the Byzantine Empire, never surpass it in terms of science. Islam was ahead of most of Western Europe until about 1000-1100, then behind it from about 1300-1400 onwards. By 1500, it isn't even fair to compare the rest of the world to Western Europe.
This is totally wrong !! Quite contrary, Modernizm is Islam itself. Many academic in the Western world say that science in Islam did florish because they adopted Ancient Greek Science from Byzantine. So I ask, if so, why didnt science florish in Byzantine as moslem took ancient greek science from there ? Again, without Islam, there wouldnt be modernity.
@faruk715 well Christians and athiests can make the same growth claims- with athiesm the only of the three to have massievly accelerated growth in all areas of the world. All religion is a relic of a past where we couldn't explain our existence- because of western advancement we now can- meaning religion is now useless and around the world people are losing the brainwashing that is the bible Quran etc. Without religion we are not divided- we are all human afterall we all desire the same things
Modern science cannot explain our existence but to describe it. The Harmony in the universe shows that there must be a superior force. Religion doesnt meam brainwashing. This brain washing was done also by secularistic regimes as well. Without religion there will always be differences also.
@faruk715 Islam has fallen in many areas- black Africa was Islamic 100 yes ago now it is Christian- islamic converts to Christianity and athiesm are in huge numbers in Iraq, Iran, afgan, Syria, turkey and Egypt. Islam has been falling around your feet for 20 years. Despite islams claims as world la fastest growing religion (it's not) it's been increasing at a slower rate each year an the % rise is soon to fall behind Christianity despite Christianity being a much larger religion!
You are wrong. Islam is the last revealed religion by God, the Almighty. It has always increased ever since and it will always increase no matter to some wrong developments in the moslem world.
@faruk715 yes all that is good is part of Islam- a common claim by Muslims but the opposite is true. The reason the Arab world fell so far behind the west and hasn't progressed for centuries is because of Islam before it was invented you created maths helped in medicine, astrology etc but Islam is so restrictive and backward that the world sees the Arab world being stuck in the middle ages! Apart from Dubai and a couple of other oil citys whichare pretty much western
@90seefectssuck no need to be racist is there? Your probably the same race anyway as Arabs Indians and White people are all the same but imagine where you would be without the western world (well Europe anyway) the Arab world is now waking up embracing democracy and western values- the fall of Islam has accelerated along with all other religions
@faruk715 DEMOCRACY IS PART OF ISLAM ???!!! You see we can listen yo you crazy people for a while and then you just start spouting asinine bullshit like this!
Of course it is. Do you want to tell me that I dont know my religion ? Do you know my religion better than me with the info you get from the corrupted mass media ?
@faruk715 But that is the point isnt it? You only know your version of Islam! Someone from Indonesia will have a different view of Islam to you, and dont even get me started on Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan. And im afraid to tell you that Islam has fallen twice! Once in the Crusades and once to the British at the end of World War 1.
The funny thing is that the guy who made the video forgot rule number one in the fall of civilizations: 1. The fall always begins internally not externally. Lets look at some examples: The Alexandrian empire fell after Alexander died and civil war occured, the Persian Empire fell easily to Alexander because many of the governors were fed up of taxes and the mismanagement of Darius, Egypt itself opened Alexander with open arms. The Roman Republic didn't fall even with Hannibal victories.Continued
@ignacio90 Shows that if your nation is loyal and unified then even the greatest conquerors cannot win. But when the roman empire became corrupt civil wars occured and it fell soon after. After Saladin died its sons fought over the empire, The mongols vanished after it split, the ottomans vanished after unrest, etc. Civilizations vanish because there is civil wars, disloyalty and mismanagement not because an outsider. The same happened to islam.
Jibarusa ... I never expected that the level of illiteracy can reach that level ... tell u what go back to kindergarden ... hopefully unbiased one and learn how to learn (if you know what I mean) ... I guess it is too hard for you to understand ...
Come on, admit it ! Europe was in the Dark Middle Ages between 500 and 1500 ! Dont lie here ! Modern western civilization begins with moslem Andalusia and the Crusades !
Islam hasn't kept up with Western science and philosophy because Allah has not seen fit to reward the muslims for their piety. Because Westerners are more deserving of better technology and social structures than muslims? Maybe stoning and hijab and other anti-human practices are considered immoral by allah, and muslims are being punished for it?
Or, maybe it's simply because there is no such thing as allah? I'd apply Occam's Razor to this problem, if i were you.
May be you should check history books and recognize that without Islam the West would still sit in its Dark Middle Ages like it did between 500 and 1500 !
Btw Islam is anti democratic...Democracy comes from the Greek: Demo Kratos meaning:Majority Rule... In Islam the hukm/rule belongs to Allah alone and no majority of humans can change that.
Masha Allah Yes, but the judgement is for him regardless of their numbers in matters. This is where Democracy differs with Islam. Democracy is a man made system with origins from Greek pagan hedonists...Islam is from Allah, how dare we compare the two or try and make Islam appealing by describing it as 'demokratic'...
All i wanted to say is that moslems are obliged to do consulting, Shura, when they have to deal with issues which arent neither in Quran nor in Hadith.
What democracy? In Britain the majorite protested against the Iraq war but Britain stil went to war against Iraq. What Democracy? In USA Bush cheated in his 2nd election. What Democracy? In USA & Britain less than 0.01% make decisions on which law top implement and vote on it without the publics opinions.
@Nazmul99 Well yeah, there is never 100% democracy but its better than no democracy. At least the republicans got voted out because of those things while that would never happen in saudi arabia or rarely in iran.
So it had nothing at all to do with muslims and was those nasty infidels. Well your reaping your revenge now arent you by polluting our culture with your grasping work shy immigrants and your hateful rhetoric. Congratulations.
What are you talking about. Watch this video again and then make a comment. I did say nothing about "infidels". The truth is that many important cities, where science was cultivated, were distroyed besides other reasons.
Whatever the reason, Islam seems rooted in the dark ages now, consumed with jihad, vengeance and terrorism. It' only a matter of time that there is a backlash from the general public. I have no time for the Imperialists and capitalist powers, but the fanatics and terrorists that drive your religion are worse.
You make a great mistake if you say that Islam spreads terror in a general way. Yet, it is true, there a few dangerous groups and sects like al Qaida and Taliban, which are actually Wahhabism. But dont accuse the whole moslems with this.
But there lies the problem. I went to school with loads of pakistani boys and see them regularly still, even though there were issues of racism and ignorance then more than now. Problem is this... now the pakistani boys look towards the wrong role models when under pressure - and the militants are harnessing this anger. It is definately spreading.
At the end of the day, the muslim youngsters are more open to radicalism than anyone. They grow up wanting the consumerism they see around them or to fulfil the sexual urges that are natural (but are often denied this by old school parents) and are also ostracised by society at large. This breeds discontent and is the fanatics dream; so much emotion to manipulate. Things will come to a head somwhere down the line even though I wish they wouldn't; but I'm a realist.
Yes, the problem is very complex. You know, it is very easy for radical groups like Wahhabiyya sect to catch these young people and doctrine them. But why do they turn their back ? I think because they are not accepted with their identity by the society and therefore they become radical.
They do... but it is not just society in general. The immigrants that settled here (UK) in the 50/60/70's went through hell - and wrongly so. They themselves are damaged by this and do not provide the guidance required of them to keep their children from this path. You seem moderate - are we infidels? Are non muslims that intervene on the side of right (if a wrong is being commited aganst a muslim) not deserving of respect?
Yes of course they do. The problem is that there are radical powerful centers in different groups who try to cause trouble. They control politics, mass media. They make up plans and strategies. Average, common people dont have problems to respect each other.
So what scientific discoveries came directly out of the Muslim word after Imam Ghazali? Sure, the progress they made before was used in the future, but certainly not in the Arab world.
What Islamic country isn't importing technology today? There was immense progress, then it immediately stopped when Imam Ghazali came to power. Coincidence?
This is not true and i proved it. There is only one argument in his book "Tahafut.." relating to cotton and fire. He argues there from a theologian point of view and he has right. And besides, his philosophical works werent so much known. Therefore they couldnt have so much negative impact and influence.
Many great Muslim scientists, philosophers and engineers came after al-Ghazali's time including Avempace, Avenzoar, al-Baghdadi, Dreses, Ibn Tufail, Alpetragius, al-Khazini, Averroes, Urdi, Tusi, al-Jazari, Ibn al-Baitar, Ibn al-Nafis, al-Farisi, Abulfeda, Ibn al-Shatir, Ibn Battuta, Ibn Khaldun, al-Kashi, Ulugh Beg, al-Qalasadi, al-Qushji, al-Khafri, Taqi al-Din, Celebi brothers, etc. All these Muslim geniuses flourished between 1100-1700, long after Ghazali.
Hey u forgot to say that after wiping out the whole population of Baghdad, the Mongols became Muslims, and spread Islam all the way in China and Mongolia! but its sad to not hear from our brothers and sisters from there, because they mostly live in poverty, under communist rule which is anti-religion (ALL RELIGIONS).
As opposed to the Middle East which is mostly in poverty and oppression itself? Fact of the matter is that former Soviet republics are considered the 2nd world and have populations which are more literate. Much of the Middle East is arguably less developed and just as impoverished if not more when compared to former communist states in central Asia.
You said it's sad that they're in poverty under communist rule. I replied with the fact that most of the Muslim Middle East is just as impoverished and even more oppressed when it comes to social rights. Also, excluding certain regions under China, the Soviet Union collapsed and those central Asian republics are no longer under communism.
Copernicus may have been the first to overtake Islamic science in 1543 when he published about the heliocentric world model. Galileo, Kepler, Leibniz, Newton were clearly beyond the knowledge achieved by Islamic mathematicians and astronomers.
Copernicus adopted mathematics from Al-Tusi and (possibly) Ibn Shatir. He improved astronomy by switching from a Geocentric to a Heliocentric World Model.
Kepler adopted Copernicus´ arrangement of celestial bodies. He improved the model by substituting the round orbits by elliptic orbits. Thus Tusi´s and Shahir´s mathematics were no longer necessary.
2. I agree that the fall of Baghdad and of Cordoba (in Andalusia) were heavy blows to Islamic science. Both were centres of science. I mentioned those events in my video. The crusades had only an indirect impact by causing a financial crisis.
You failed to explain how those events were able to cause a slow decline over centuries though.
I have some objections to your video as you know from our mail exchange.
1. The Persian Empire and the Middle Eastern parts of the Byzantine Empire were conquered 650. This is one hundred years before the Islamic Golden Age even began. Thus the "decadence" of those people can hardly be the cause for the ending of the Golden Age.
1. The last arabic conquests stop in the middle of the 8th century. And that battle was in 752 against chinese army. After this, no new territory had been conquered.
2. The fall of the Ottoman empire begins 100 years after the conquest of Constantinople, that is appr. 1560. So why? Because the Ottomans adopted their decadence and became Byzantine. They became sick. There Europeans call them "The sick man of Bosphorus"
The Arab managed to conquer the whole Persian Empire and approximately two thirds of the Byzantine Empire without any negative effect on them. But when in 1453 the Ottomans conquered Byzantium - at that time not much more than the European part of today´s Turkey, the Turks were infected by the Byzantine "decadence".
This is not very convincing, apart from the fact that you neither explained why the Byzantine could be called decadent nor how this had an impact on Science in the Ottoman Empire.
The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. Due to Muslim Imperialism, the Pope decided to strike back to prevent important cities from falling into Muslim hands.
You are funny. Jerusalem was in the hands of the moslems since Caliph Umar, since 637 ! The moslems could garanty peace order, but the crusaders couldnt. And as time has shown it, the Israelis can't it either since 1947.
First is not everthing correct that is written in Wikipedia because everyone can edit it. Second Jerusalem was in the hands of the moslems when the crusaders attacked it. As for Israel, its borders were drawn already in the 19th century by zionists and their supporters.
1. Wikipedia is backed up by multiple sources on this topic.
2. Again, the crusaders attacked because of Muslim attacks.
3. The borders for Israel were drawn based on a UN resolution which placed Israel in areas where the Jewish population was in a majority. But forget about that. All you need to remember is that the UN set this in motion.
The moslems didnt attack Jerusalem because it belonged to them. So about which attacks do you speak. Second, the borders of Israel were drown long time before 1947 in the last part of the 19th century by zionists.
About which attacks I speak? About Muslim imperialism through hundreds of years. About the Pope coming to the rescue of the Byzantine Empire, under attack by Muslims.
As for Israel, The UN partition plan was created by the UN special committee UNSCOP.
You are still funny. Why didnt the Pope rescue Jerusalem after 637 when moslems capture it? Why in 1099 ? Do you know what the crusaders did to Constantinople in 1204 ? Look it up in Wiki ! And i dont think they did it because they wanted to help them !
Islam only managed to equal the Byzantine Empire, never surpass it in terms of science. Islam was ahead of most of Western Europe until about 1000-1100, then behind it from about 1300-1400 onwards. By 1500, it isn't even fair to compare the rest of the world to Western Europe.
Nonamearisto 5 months ago
@Nonamearisto
This is totally wrong !! Quite contrary, Modernizm is Islam itself. Many academic in the Western world say that science in Islam did florish because they adopted Ancient Greek Science from Byzantine. So I ask, if so, why didnt science florish in Byzantine as moslem took ancient greek science from there ? Again, without Islam, there wouldnt be modernity.
faruk715 5 months ago
@faruk715 well Christians and athiests can make the same growth claims- with athiesm the only of the three to have massievly accelerated growth in all areas of the world. All religion is a relic of a past where we couldn't explain our existence- because of western advancement we now can- meaning religion is now useless and around the world people are losing the brainwashing that is the bible Quran etc. Without religion we are not divided- we are all human afterall we all desire the same things
elmateeeo 1 year ago
@elmateeeo
Modern science cannot explain our existence but to describe it. The Harmony in the universe shows that there must be a superior force. Religion doesnt meam brainwashing. This brain washing was done also by secularistic regimes as well. Without religion there will always be differences also.
faruk715 1 year ago
@faruk715 Islam has fallen in many areas- black Africa was Islamic 100 yes ago now it is Christian- islamic converts to Christianity and athiesm are in huge numbers in Iraq, Iran, afgan, Syria, turkey and Egypt. Islam has been falling around your feet for 20 years. Despite islams claims as world la fastest growing religion (it's not) it's been increasing at a slower rate each year an the % rise is soon to fall behind Christianity despite Christianity being a much larger religion!
elmateeeo 1 year ago
@elmateeeo
You are wrong. Islam is the last revealed religion by God, the Almighty. It has always increased ever since and it will always increase no matter to some wrong developments in the moslem world.
faruk715 1 year ago
@faruk715 yes all that is good is part of Islam- a common claim by Muslims but the opposite is true. The reason the Arab world fell so far behind the west and hasn't progressed for centuries is because of Islam before it was invented you created maths helped in medicine, astrology etc but Islam is so restrictive and backward that the world sees the Arab world being stuck in the middle ages! Apart from Dubai and a couple of other oil citys whichare pretty much western
elmateeeo 1 year ago
@90seefectssuck no need to be racist is there? Your probably the same race anyway as Arabs Indians and White people are all the same but imagine where you would be without the western world (well Europe anyway) the Arab world is now waking up embracing democracy and western values- the fall of Islam has accelerated along with all other religions
elmateeeo 1 year ago
@elmateeeo
Democracy is part of Islam. And Islam has never fallen.
faruk715 1 year ago
@faruk715 DEMOCRACY IS PART OF ISLAM ???!!! You see we can listen yo you crazy people for a while and then you just start spouting asinine bullshit like this!
greeny202a 8 months ago
@greeny202a
Of course it is. Do you want to tell me that I dont know my religion ? Do you know my religion better than me with the info you get from the corrupted mass media ?
faruk715 7 months ago
@faruk715 But that is the point isnt it? You only know your version of Islam! Someone from Indonesia will have a different view of Islam to you, and dont even get me started on Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan. And im afraid to tell you that Islam has fallen twice! Once in the Crusades and once to the British at the end of World War 1.
greeny202a 7 months ago
@greeny202a
Of course I am talking about the mainland of Islam and not the marginal areas like Indonesia.
faruk715 7 months ago
Meh...can't win all the time. Heads will get too big.
MegaPoone 1 year ago
The funny thing is that the guy who made the video forgot rule number one in the fall of civilizations: 1. The fall always begins internally not externally. Lets look at some examples: The Alexandrian empire fell after Alexander died and civil war occured, the Persian Empire fell easily to Alexander because many of the governors were fed up of taxes and the mismanagement of Darius, Egypt itself opened Alexander with open arms. The Roman Republic didn't fall even with Hannibal victories.Continued
ignacio90 1 year ago
@ignacio90 Shows that if your nation is loyal and unified then even the greatest conquerors cannot win. But when the roman empire became corrupt civil wars occured and it fell soon after. After Saladin died its sons fought over the empire, The mongols vanished after it split, the ottomans vanished after unrest, etc. Civilizations vanish because there is civil wars, disloyalty and mismanagement not because an outsider. The same happened to islam.
ignacio90 1 year ago
@ignacio90
But the outsider gives the last step.
faruk715 1 year ago
Comment removed
BeeyondNeptoon 2 years ago
@BeeyondNeptoon your ignorant life wud have been all the poorer if not for the contributions made by islam. u moronic white ape
90seffectssuck 2 years ago
pat condell IS GOD u fucking bearded cunts
richtubeyou 2 years ago
Jibarusa ... I never expected that the level of illiteracy can reach that level ... tell u what go back to kindergarden ... hopefully unbiased one and learn how to learn (if you know what I mean) ... I guess it is too hard for you to understand ...
YMIB2008 3 years ago
COMING FROM A SPIC........wow.......... ungrateful spic....... arab moors had u suckin the twat for 700 yrs.
jibarusa 3 years ago
ohh thanks for your honesty, I hope to hold up to it ... ohh, by the way, didn't I tell you, I am an Arab.
Enjoy your day.
YMIB2008 3 years ago
almost all of the muslim scientist were persian any ways...
harnamana 4 years ago
This is not true.
faruk715 4 years ago
hey muntian!
if u want to see a real stupid,just look at a mirror...
because your unlogical,mitological ancientgreek-based religion(read bible and ilyada together) keeping u stupid...
greatconqueror1453 4 years ago
Tell me the name of just one byzantine scientist or philosopher !
faruk715 4 years ago
Come on, admit it ! Europe was in the Dark Middle Ages between 500 and 1500 ! Dont lie here ! Modern western civilization begins with moslem Andalusia and the Crusades !
faruk715 4 years ago
Without Islam the West would still be in its Dark Middle Ages, like it was between 500 and 1500 !
faruk715 4 years ago
Islam hasn't kept up with Western science and philosophy because Allah has not seen fit to reward the muslims for their piety. Because Westerners are more deserving of better technology and social structures than muslims? Maybe stoning and hijab and other anti-human practices are considered immoral by allah, and muslims are being punished for it?
Or, maybe it's simply because there is no such thing as allah? I'd apply Occam's Razor to this problem, if i were you.
Elvisdogg 4 years ago
May be you should check history books and recognize that without Islam the West would still sit in its Dark Middle Ages like it did between 500 and 1500 !
faruk715 4 years ago
So? And the result is that west developed liberal democracy and civil rights, whereas the moslems are STILL sitting in the dark ages...
hermosauhu 4 years ago
Moslems are not in the dark ages. Their problem is their decadence and despotic, anti democratic governments that are supported by the West !
faruk715 4 years ago
'anti democratic'...
Btw Islam is anti democratic...Democracy comes from the Greek: Demo Kratos meaning:Majority Rule... In Islam the hukm/rule belongs to Allah alone and no majority of humans can change that.
AbuAli1427 4 years ago
There is also democracy in Islam, it is called Shu'ra ! Even the prophet consulted his companiens eventhough he was a prophet.
faruk715 4 years ago
Masha Allah Yes, but the judgement is for him regardless of their numbers in matters. This is where Democracy differs with Islam. Democracy is a man made system with origins from Greek pagan hedonists...Islam is from Allah, how dare we compare the two or try and make Islam appealing by describing it as 'demokratic'...
AbuAli1427 4 years ago
All i wanted to say is that moslems are obliged to do consulting, Shura, when they have to deal with issues which arent neither in Quran nor in Hadith.
faruk715 4 years ago
What democracy? In Britain the majorite protested against the Iraq war but Britain stil went to war against Iraq. What Democracy? In USA Bush cheated in his 2nd election. What Democracy? In USA & Britain less than 0.01% make decisions on which law top implement and vote on it without the publics opinions.
Nazmul99 3 years ago 2
@Nazmul99 Well yeah, there is never 100% democracy but its better than no democracy. At least the republicans got voted out because of those things while that would never happen in saudi arabia or rarely in iran.
ignacio90 1 year ago
So it had nothing at all to do with muslims and was those nasty infidels. Well your reaping your revenge now arent you by polluting our culture with your grasping work shy immigrants and your hateful rhetoric. Congratulations.
TALIBANBOYOreturns 4 years ago
What are you talking about. Watch this video again and then make a comment. I did say nothing about "infidels". The truth is that many important cities, where science was cultivated, were distroyed besides other reasons.
faruk715 4 years ago
Whatever the reason, Islam seems rooted in the dark ages now, consumed with jihad, vengeance and terrorism. It' only a matter of time that there is a backlash from the general public. I have no time for the Imperialists and capitalist powers, but the fanatics and terrorists that drive your religion are worse.
TALIBANBOYOreturns 4 years ago
You make a great mistake if you say that Islam spreads terror in a general way. Yet, it is true, there a few dangerous groups and sects like al Qaida and Taliban, which are actually Wahhabism. But dont accuse the whole moslems with this.
faruk715 4 years ago
But there lies the problem. I went to school with loads of pakistani boys and see them regularly still, even though there were issues of racism and ignorance then more than now. Problem is this... now the pakistani boys look towards the wrong role models when under pressure - and the militants are harnessing this anger. It is definately spreading.
TALIBANBOYOreturns 4 years ago
At the end of the day, the muslim youngsters are more open to radicalism than anyone. They grow up wanting the consumerism they see around them or to fulfil the sexual urges that are natural (but are often denied this by old school parents) and are also ostracised by society at large. This breeds discontent and is the fanatics dream; so much emotion to manipulate. Things will come to a head somwhere down the line even though I wish they wouldn't; but I'm a realist.
TALIBANBOYOreturns 4 years ago
Yes, the problem is very complex. You know, it is very easy for radical groups like Wahhabiyya sect to catch these young people and doctrine them. But why do they turn their back ? I think because they are not accepted with their identity by the society and therefore they become radical.
faruk715 4 years ago
They do... but it is not just society in general. The immigrants that settled here (UK) in the 50/60/70's went through hell - and wrongly so. They themselves are damaged by this and do not provide the guidance required of them to keep their children from this path. You seem moderate - are we infidels? Are non muslims that intervene on the side of right (if a wrong is being commited aganst a muslim) not deserving of respect?
TALIBANBOYOreturns 4 years ago
Yes of course they do. The problem is that there are radical powerful centers in different groups who try to cause trouble. They control politics, mass media. They make up plans and strategies. Average, common people dont have problems to respect each other.
faruk715 4 years ago
So what scientific discoveries came directly out of the Muslim word after Imam Ghazali? Sure, the progress they made before was used in the future, but certainly not in the Arab world.
What Islamic country isn't importing technology today? There was immense progress, then it immediately stopped when Imam Ghazali came to power. Coincidence?
particle409 4 years ago
This is not true and i proved it. There is only one argument in his book "Tahafut.." relating to cotton and fire. He argues there from a theologian point of view and he has right. And besides, his philosophical works werent so much known. Therefore they couldnt have so much negative impact and influence.
faruk715 4 years ago
Many great Muslim scientists, philosophers and engineers came after al-Ghazali's time including Avempace, Avenzoar, al-Baghdadi, Dreses, Ibn Tufail, Alpetragius, al-Khazini, Averroes, Urdi, Tusi, al-Jazari, Ibn al-Baitar, Ibn al-Nafis, al-Farisi, Abulfeda, Ibn al-Shatir, Ibn Battuta, Ibn Khaldun, al-Kashi, Ulugh Beg, al-Qalasadi, al-Qushji, al-Khafri, Taqi al-Din, Celebi brothers, etc. All these Muslim geniuses flourished between 1100-1700, long after Ghazali.
Jagged85 4 years ago
Hey u forgot to say that after wiping out the whole population of Baghdad, the Mongols became Muslims, and spread Islam all the way in China and Mongolia! but its sad to not hear from our brothers and sisters from there, because they mostly live in poverty, under communist rule which is anti-religion (ALL RELIGIONS).
iouiu 4 years ago
As opposed to the Middle East which is mostly in poverty and oppression itself? Fact of the matter is that former Soviet republics are considered the 2nd world and have populations which are more literate. Much of the Middle East is arguably less developed and just as impoverished if not more when compared to former communist states in central Asia.
phyek 4 years ago
ummm ok... so ur point? I dont get wht ur trying 2 say or defend?
iouiu 4 years ago
You said it's sad that they're in poverty under communist rule. I replied with the fact that most of the Muslim Middle East is just as impoverished and even more oppressed when it comes to social rights. Also, excluding certain regions under China, the Soviet Union collapsed and those central Asian republics are no longer under communism.
phyek 4 years ago
3. I do not agree with your timeline.
Copernicus may have been the first to overtake Islamic science in 1543 when he published about the heliocentric world model. Galileo, Kepler, Leibniz, Newton were clearly beyond the knowledge achieved by Islamic mathematicians and astronomers.
Jeremias1111 4 years ago
All the achievements of these scientists base on basic research of moslem scientist. Even more, they were copied from them.
faruk715 4 years ago
They adopted Islamic science, enhanced it and developed new theories when the adopted were proven wrong. - This is nothing special.
The Islamic scientists adopted Greek and Indian science and improved it and I think the Greek scientists adopted Egyptian and Babylonian science.
This is simply how science works: Adopt the knowledge available, improve it and replace wrong parts.
Jeremias1111 4 years ago
An example:
Copernicus adopted mathematics from Al-Tusi and (possibly) Ibn Shatir. He improved astronomy by switching from a Geocentric to a Heliocentric World Model.
Kepler adopted Copernicus´ arrangement of celestial bodies. He improved the model by substituting the round orbits by elliptic orbits. Thus Tusi´s and Shahir´s mathematics were no longer necessary.
Jeremias1111 4 years ago
2. I agree that the fall of Baghdad and of Cordoba (in Andalusia) were heavy blows to Islamic science. Both were centres of science. I mentioned those events in my video. The crusades had only an indirect impact by causing a financial crisis.
You failed to explain how those events were able to cause a slow decline over centuries though.
Jeremias1111 4 years ago
I have some objections to your video as you know from our mail exchange.
1. The Persian Empire and the Middle Eastern parts of the Byzantine Empire were conquered 650. This is one hundred years before the Islamic Golden Age even began. Thus the "decadence" of those people can hardly be the cause for the ending of the Golden Age.
Jeremias1111 4 years ago
Yes you are right. But i am right also:
1. The last arabic conquests stop in the middle of the 8th century. And that battle was in 752 against chinese army. After this, no new territory had been conquered.
2. The fall of the Ottoman empire begins 100 years after the conquest of Constantinople, that is appr. 1560. So why? Because the Ottomans adopted their decadence and became Byzantine. They became sick. There Europeans call them "The sick man of Bosphorus"
faruk715 4 years ago
So, what you are claiming now is this:
The Arab managed to conquer the whole Persian Empire and approximately two thirds of the Byzantine Empire without any negative effect on them. But when in 1453 the Ottomans conquered Byzantium - at that time not much more than the European part of today´s Turkey, the Turks were infected by the Byzantine "decadence".
Jeremias1111 4 years ago
This is not very convincing, apart from the fact that you neither explained why the Byzantine could be called decadent nor how this had an impact on Science in the Ottoman Empire.
Jeremias1111 4 years ago
The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. Due to Muslim Imperialism, the Pope decided to strike back to prevent important cities from falling into Muslim hands.
bubbah 4 years ago
You are funny. Jerusalem was in the hands of the moslems since Caliph Umar, since 637 ! The moslems could garanty peace order, but the crusaders couldnt. And as time has shown it, the Israelis can't it either since 1947.
faruk715 4 years ago
Read your history books. Even Wikipedia. The Crusades were started because of Muslim attacks and imperialism.
As for Israel, let's not forget who attacked first. Yes, several Arab countries attacked Israel the moment it was founded.
bubbah 4 years ago
First is not everthing correct that is written in Wikipedia because everyone can edit it. Second Jerusalem was in the hands of the moslems when the crusaders attacked it. As for Israel, its borders were drawn already in the 19th century by zionists and their supporters.
faruk715 4 years ago
1. Wikipedia is backed up by multiple sources on this topic.
2. Again, the crusaders attacked because of Muslim attacks.
3. The borders for Israel were drawn based on a UN resolution which placed Israel in areas where the Jewish population was in a majority. But forget about that. All you need to remember is that the UN set this in motion.
bubbah 4 years ago
The moslems didnt attack Jerusalem because it belonged to them. So about which attacks do you speak. Second, the borders of Israel were drown long time before 1947 in the last part of the 19th century by zionists.
faruk715 4 years ago
About which attacks I speak? About Muslim imperialism through hundreds of years. About the Pope coming to the rescue of the Byzantine Empire, under attack by Muslims.
As for Israel, The UN partition plan was created by the UN special committee UNSCOP.
bubbah 4 years ago
You are still funny. Why didnt the Pope rescue Jerusalem after 637 when moslems capture it? Why in 1099 ? Do you know what the crusaders did to Constantinople in 1204 ? Look it up in Wiki ! And i dont think they did it because they wanted to help them !
faruk715 4 years ago
@bubbah and @faruk
I think there is nearly no war in history that was not declared to be a defensive war by both sides. This is also the case regarding the crusades.
I don´t believe that a debate about who was justified to wage war is fruitful.
Jeremias1111 4 years ago