I wonder what kind of color will the PAK FA RAM will be. Black or some kind of different color? I already seen a color scheme for the PAK FA in Blue and White and Cyan but I wonder if that's the final color for the production aircraft.
Which would negate the BVR ability and put reliance on the EODAS (inferring from your text), off bore-sight missiles (where IR comes in as well), and aircraft maneuverability.
With it. But never underestimate the other guy. Our joint helmet mounted displays came after the Russians developed theirs (yes America, Russia developed it first) and their investment into IR passive detection (the big glass bulb in the nose of their fighters) may offer them some advantages. I have yet to really look at what info we have on their IR ability, but probably most of it would be classified and not for public discussion. Sometimes we the mission may call for VID (visual ident)
FXWorldBeater, you seem to have the subject very well researched. As far as the F-35 goes, the only thing I know is that I will probably be an O-4 if and when I ever do get to fly it in the fleet. The simulator they let us pilot had some pretty nifty stuff in it though. Talking to an old buddy of mine, our technology gives us quite an advantage, a lot of which can be negated by effective and directive ECM. EODAS is quite impressive from it what sounds, although I am unfamiliar.
I apologize for my posts being disjointed somewhat. In the end, the debate which aircraft is better is subject to many things and is usually mostly academic and conjecture. The Russians have stated they need an influx of cash in order to get the meat (electronics package) of the PAK FA up and running and most believe this will come from the Indian government. So, until then, the Raptor has its stats from mock engagements, but the true test will come if and when they ever meet in the skies.
@plebe1985 The exception to your point is with the F35 in WVR combat. As I mentioned, pilot skill is all about situational awareness, being able to keep your eyes on the enemy and react accordingly with 4th gen aircraft.
The F35 has the EODAS system which effectively gives the aicraft and pilot a 360 degree view around the plane. EODAS continually tracks enemy aicraft with visual range and is used to queue and assist with missile guidance.
@plebe1985 When it comes to knife fighting with an F35, the pilot just has to select the target from a list on his display, then he can continue firing no matter where the enemy is, without the need to get the target into his boresight or HMD as with all other aicraft.
The enemy pilot then loses all initiative and has to evade or die.
With the software (not the freely available hardware) built into the F35, moderately good pilots are able to beat veterans.
@plebe1985 Enemy aircraft stealth, countermeasures, ECM, jamming...etc, all becomes obsolete in this situation as the EODAS system visually guides the missile to its target.
The only chance the enemy aicraft has of survival is to successfully dodge 5 - 6 missiles which only weigh 80kg and have thrust vectoring (remembering the countermeasures don't work because they are guided visually).
He has barely the training required that allows him to safely operate the aircraft. Now lets say he meets up with a Russian Colonel who has 15 years of flying experience and is flying an upgraded M-29 or SU-30. My money is on the Colonel.
In the end, and I believe the Russian pilot here would agree with me, that it is not the machine that makes the fight, but the pilot, although the hardware can really aid a competent pilot. I'll give you an example. Imagine that we have a brand new pilot, one who has maybe 6 months of training and is given command of a F-22 raptor. He has barely the training required that allows him to safely operate the aircraft. Now lets say he meets up with a Russian Colonel who has
characteristics. The Russians were concerned with function, not form and to know exactly where you didn't need to streamline showed in-depth understanding of their aerodynamics. This also made the aircraft cheaper and easier to produce. In military flight training they tell you, and this is why our military (can't say for the Russians because I've never watched their training) spends so much time training pilots.
not in airframe design. Now that electronics are over-the-counter and readily available as well as the technology, I feel that the technological gap between the two is far narrower. Back in the 1970s when a MIG-25 pilot defected to Japan, initially we were making fun of the crudeness of the design. Upon closer inspection, our engineers had to give credit to the Russian engineers because the crudeness was determined to be ineffectual to the flight characteristics.
Well it looks like I am rather late on getting into this conversation. There is obviously a great mix of national pride and USA rebuking going on in here, but I just want to put my two cents in. The Russians and the US have very sound (or at least Russia did) weapon programs. Despite claims of Russian hardware being inferior, their defense programs kept a great deal of Americans and Western powers up at night. True supremacy over Russian hardware came in the form of electronics,
Its a shame the american 6th gen project starts in 2020 (read the news report about the FY11 US budget). This jet may have had a day in the sun....if it was as stealthy as an F22...which it isn't.
@FXWorldBeater Who the fuck told you that, the nigger and chief cancelled all that shit. He stopped production of the F-22, among many other things. Also, its a fucking prototype get a fucking life loser.
militarytimes . com / static / projects / pages / 30yearaviation . pdf
You seemed to have difficultly understanding my comment that PAK FA would have had its day if it was only going against the F22. Unfortunately it will be going against something much more advanced.
Your low intellect was revealed by your jump straight to abuse...so I guess I should have restricted myself to small words.
You convince yourself of that buddy, whatever makesd you feel safe again. And in 2024 when we watch the first flight....you can just pretend its a fake.
In 2027 when Russia has only managed to build 30 PAK FA's for itself and the US already has 200 FX's, you can pretend its not happening....just so you feel safe again.
LOL TeslaShortBusRider....japan going to cancel the US alliance and buy the PAK FA....ahahaha, still makes me laugh.
Your IQ must be somewhere between 85 and 90, high enough to type....too low to form logical thoughts. Does your mommy still put the cork on your fork at dinner time?
Maybe you don't get the news in special school but US GDP growth was +6% last quarter. Compared to Russia -8%. Russia is a broke country become more broke. 9% inflation...holy crap, your tiny little economy really IS in trouble eh? Maybe one day you guys will have a bigger economy than California....probably not though, you products are poor quality and raw resources are cheaper elsewhere.
Oh dear. The US FY11 budget was released to the press yesterday and contained a document titled "Aircraft Investment Plan FY2011-FY2040".
The thing of interest in the document is that US plans to start development of a fighter to supercede the F-22's in 2020 with production starting in 2025.
Pull about because the USAF is making a new plane? Who didn't see that coming. You're saying they're just going to throw away all the money, development, and technology and rely on older planes until 2020? Not a chance.
uh sorry sir...the new aircraft is the f-35. the f-22 is too expensive and the f-15 is still kicking ass. f-16 is being retired and the f-35 will be replacing them. then it will be the a-10 and then the f-18.
I think you misunderstood me. What you said doesn't really have much to do with my comment. And the F-22 isn't too expensive, it's just that Obama doesn't think it's necessary at the moment. F-15 is good, but getting old. It doesn't hold an huge edge over its rivals.
i doubt we will ever see the f-22 being developed again. its an old jet too. it was being designed in the early 80's.
"US already know that late model SU's are better than the 15."
thats majority of america's problem. russia isnt against the US right now. the f-15 is kicking terrorist's asses. so it is the aircraft right now. even that the f-15 will be around for at least another 30 years.
1 F-22 worth around 320 million dollars not expensive huh? F35 was like 135 million some near that on F35 i dont remember the exact but is near that. later
At 150 million, the F-22 doesn't even cost as much as two Su-35's. The F-15 K cost 100 million, and one F-22 can probably handle a flight of those on its own. The F-22 is worth every bit of its price given how far ahead of everything else it is.
"start development of a fighter to supercede the F-22's in 2020"
what development? currently severing in the air force. they have gone with the joint task fighter f-35. it will be around for at least 50 years sir. not enough crew chiefs to be bouncing around on new aircraft.
Poor wing design and I'm pretty sure Sukhoi knows it. With thurst vectoring, you need to reduce the wing area and underside drag at the back of the plane or you just can't preform high performance turns.
Pretty sure after a redesign, you'll see the wings looking more triangular like the F22's.
Without changing the design, this plane will just end up executing "cobra maneuvers" every time it wants to pull a hard TVC turn.
Well Sukhoi did say that they built the Berkut with forward sweeping wings to try and fix this issue.
It seems that they'd prefer the stealth to better performing TVC. They don't need to learn from me, they already know the limitations, they're just willing to compromise the performance for the stealth.
Simply, Sukhoi need to package their fighters so they are a lot smaller (make smaller components). Until then aerodynamics will work against them, simple physics.
Non sense! If russians were to sacrifice TVC for stealth as your highness have described, then they would not have TVC engines on PAK FA. What a tool!
F-22 was challenged at farnborough airshow to show what you call 160 degree versus Su-35 or su-30. F-22 balked out! So much for the so called F-22. IT is tiger to folks here in USA not outside, it is cat, meow. It pissed, yeah, it was pissing in its pants, sorry, it is NOT the best maneuverable a/c in the world. Yeah, worthless, expensive piece of shit ever! F-22 sucks, sorry, this is THE reality.
Show proof of comments if you're going to post them (challenge at farnsborugh show).
F22 is the BEST fighter jet in history and will remain so until the US 6th gen A2A solution. Sukhoi can build airshow planes but they are years behind in combat aircraft.
What you saw in the F22 video I posted....no sukhoi can do, because they are too large...otherwise they'd be on youtube wouldn't they..instead we see videos of sukhoi's stalling and recovering using TVC.
If you want to prove the ACTUAL maneuverability, show links to a video. Pretty much every one I saw of any sukhoi jets just show bif clumsy things falling out of the sky...not so impressive.
US to want to put a clean F22 up in the sky to be scrutinised by the SU35's radar would be kinda dumb in any event.......sorta like the idiot Indians taking their SU30's to Red Flag and show off the jet's only useful feature, post stall maneuvers. Russia should have cancelled their contracts for that.
Clumsy things falling off,.then you have already made up your mind. I am seeing videos where F-22 can not make maneuver you are talking aboutit is too gay. Just a 2d vectoring for a pitch is all I saw. And I saw a cobra manuever, I could not stop laughing. It can not do good the things it is made for..fucked up plane...anyways...show me the link first where it can be 180 degree side spin and vertical spin...and post stall with direction change of 360 degree....guess what...you can not
Thats what I mean, the SU is built for airshows. Post stall maneuvers only get you shot down in real combat because you are basically sitting still in the sky. This will be especially so against the F35 which doesn't need to be facing you to shoot you due to EODAS.
Still, guess you can't show proof of that su35 turning challenge so I can only assume you're full of shit.
The fact you think post stall maneuvers and the "cobra" are used in actual combat by experienced pilots sorta proves you have no idea what you're talking about.
Do some research on how experienced SU pilots avoid getting into post stall maneuvering during combat then start commenting on fighter aircraft and aerodynamics. Until then, hush.
This video is so GAY....160 is 4 seconds is all you got!, I laugh at this..where as Su-37 Terminator can do a 360 vertical flip in 4 seconds, a spin of 180 degree in 3 seconds..do not ask for A video proof, there are tons n tonds of videos here in youtube. You just have to open your WEIRD EYES, thats all, hahahahah
ok, quite obvious I'm dealing with someone of much lower intelligence. Don't know why I bother to argue with people who thing air combat is about "pulling moves" like it Tom Clancy's Hawx or something.
But show me one video of an SU with vapor trails coming off the whole plane (not just the wing tips).
But I guess a person of your high calibre will show me videos of an SU releasing smoke while "pulling awesome moves".
Oh, So u r einstein then oh Mr intelligent here, wow. Mr intelligent thinks vapor trails is effective and challenges other to show if that is possible in sukhoi a/c. What a tool. These stunts as you call it r an effective weapon in combat. Surprising the enemy is THE MOST effective tool in a air to air combat. Because the surprise will put enemy in disadvantage n u can finish him in the sky. That, my friend the Fart-22 craptor can not do. Oh, by the way I am of High Calibre n u r NOT
Type "The sukhoi story part 7(final)" and watch the fear of F-22 about Su-37. FART-22 and the pilot are shaking and pissing in their pants, hahahahahha, the pilot goes "it would be an interesting fight" when the russian designer challenged Fart-22, hahahaha, Gay Fart-22.
Post stall maneuvers would be very surprising, it would mean the pilot performing the maneuvers is basically letting himself be shot down. The moves done by the F-22 and Flanker at airshows are for airshows. In air combat, going slow like that is a death sentence vs missiles.
Agreed...you'd have to be a fucking retard to stall a 40tonne plane using thrust vectoring when there's a 80kg missile chasing you which also has thrust vectoring and can turn a lot fucking faster than you can.
Bacically stall maneuvers turn a jet into a helicopter....and jets have no problems shooting down helicopters.
I love when SU fanboi's jump on here saying that the "cobra" is the ULTIMATE DOGFIGHT MOVE!!! The cobra is actually a failed attempt at pulling a fast turn with TVC.
with ECM&ECCM+a large number of priorities in the airspace, that slow speed high AOA flight might just be important. the idea isn't to bleed energy in a dogfight, its too be able to still fight with your airplane if you find yourself in a position w/inferior energy. if you are in a merge with a contact and another shows up, you can be forced into a bad slow spot where post-stall acm can save your ass.
Not really, no matter what you're going to be slow and vulnerable. If you've forced a fighter into post stall in a fight larger than 1 on 1, you've won. He won't be able to avoid your missiles. The best case for the post stall plane is a draw (gets to fire before destroyed by enemy missile).
F-22 is an ugly duckling and more importantly an inferior a/c to PAK FA. F-22 craptor can never ever think of challenging Su-37 let alone PAK FA. PAK FA the new emperor of the sky!
I'll tell you something...Russians have been back in technology because of one very simple thing...the LACK of money.If there is enough money there will be a great plane which will enter service in the next 4 maybe 5 years.
USA was once called the ' beacon of hope' nad rightfully so. During the second waorld war... they did what nobody could do. The last two decades has changed that perception into " Evil country', which goes about killing innocent people in the name of WMD. I do not know which country it is going to invade next...for all those people who live with a fear of this EVIL country..PAK FA comes as ray of hope...A hope which USA should have is not there anymore...feel very sad.
Pak-fa is very interesting; it summarizes the ceiling of mig-31 (20,000m and over),supermanoeuvrability of Su-27/30,and she has got LowFrequencies detectors inorder to find stalth targets (B2,F35),too.We don't know what is her RCS for conventional radars,but there are information according to which it could be betweenF-35's and F-22's one
First of all, PAK FA design looks much more formidable, there is no doubt about that. For all those cribbing that f-22 is great. Let me tell this, you did not expect this kind of aircraft design from the russians. You expected some version of su-47 to begin and now face the traumatic reality of PAK FA design, which in your mind, you know is as good as any fifth generation design and beyond. This is just a PROTOTYPE...so relax...it will take time to be fully operational. We are looking at 2020.
Actually bhartha2007 I was completely expecting the Russians to copy the body design of the F-22 and slightly modify it to look more like a Sukhoi. I'm not at all surprised that the Russians abandoned their iconic airframes and built something that highly resembles the F-22.
To me it looks like a 50/50 blend of the Su-27 and the F-22. Stealth doesn't have very many looks ;-)
We all know that to work stealth has to incorporate certain shapes and to me it looks like the Russians just took their Su-27 and changed it just enough to be stealthy. And why invent new technology when you can do it with technology that's already here at a fraction of the price?Here we have a typical Russian aircraft in that it is cheap (1/6 of the Raptor programs cost).
the united states has had alot of experience with stealth fighters and bombers, over more than 30 years which makes doubt that the T-50 is equal to the f-22... anyways by the time the T-50 is operational the f-22 would have been in service for 10 or even 15 years making it have already advance upgrades.
if the usa only has 186 f-22 i highly doubt the russians are going to have 200 T-50 taking into account they hardly have any su-35 in service...
@Allanvh5150. Your own experience? I'm surprised. How much time you spent flying F-15 or F-16? Or maybe even you had a combat against F-22?? I dont think so. So how can you compare them? I'm sure the very main reason you are here wrighting all these messages is so-called patriotism. I dont want to say anything bad about Soviet aircrafts. But if someone says that they are best for sure - it means that the one who's telling it just hates US. That's why I'm telling about history. Stats aint patriot
@airkriuk you obviously cant read. When have I said anything about being the best. My experience obviously points to everything that I have first hand experience flying. I have secong hand experience of F15 and F16 but not the F22. The former being two great planes that have been proven in combat many times. The F15 is the equal of the original Su27 but the F16 is not really in the same league as the Mig29. Having said that, on a day to day basis, they are pretty well matched.
When you watch History I will bet a lot of money on Russia not building more then 20 for their own air force. It doesn't look like it has that good of a stealth technology either. It's likely to be better then the Eurofighter and such aircraft... It just doesn't strike me as an F-22 killer.
It looks pathetic that russian air forces pilot is enough enthusiastic and has enough time to write all these things about americans and american jet fighters on american website... Where's your dignity?
I also want to say that history tells us that during wars and conflicts US jets have downed a certain number of Soviet aircrafts. Only stats, no trash talk. Thanks.
@airkriuk I guess that you talk of me? I speak from my own experience. It really annoys me when people compare US hardware with well trained US pilots competing against Russian hardware mostly with very unskilled people at the stick. During many of these encounters the pilots flying Russian planes could only just manage to fly in a straight line. Totaly fair comparison would you say? I fly some of the best aircraft on the planet, how many other youtube jockies can say that?
@armydude162 Sure, doing the math we can see that th Su35 has never been flown against any of these aircraft and probably never will. What has the F22 got that will allow it to shoot down 10 aircraft in one sortie? Does the pilot have the stamina to do it? Does the aircraft have the fuel to do it. Nothing, no and no. Having said that, according to you, if the Su35 can get one kill on an F22, by deffinition it can achieve a 1 to 1 kill ratio. Numbers on paper are rather meaningless.
Oh yeah? who wrote that statistics? And excuse me for being bold, but the eurofighter is a piece of crap, imo, even the tornado is better. Also, where does the F-22 carry 10 guided missiles(assuming that they all hit, very not likely), and there is NO way that the F-22 can match the sukhoi in a dogfight lol.
Why is the EF-2000 "crap", especially with superior performance, avionics, and weapons compared to ADV, most F-15's, etc? F-22 carries 8 missiles internally, at least 4 externally. The F-22 can probably match anything in a dogfight for all that's actually known.
If it carries external ammunition it looses all stealth qualities, which turns it into a very very expensive F-15. And i disagree about the raptors ability to match soviet planes in a dogfight, they will simply outturn it if they get close enough.
You asked how the F-22 carries 10 missiles. Even without stealth the F-22 is a threat, far more than any F-15. Also, an argument that debates classified info is not a strong one. You have no reason whatsoever to believe the Sukhoi is more agile when no one knows how agile the F-22 is, besides Lockheed's claims of high agility.
I don't believe that the electronics of the raptor can't be mounted on the F-15, i bet it would cost two times cheaper aswell.
True, i don't know just how agile the F-22 is, however, i do know how agile the sukhoi is, as agile as a sports plane, and i also know why its so agile. Apart of excellent aerodynamics it also has moving afterburners which vector the thrust of the engines and help with the steering, here's a vid of it if you wanna know what im talking about: watch?v=7LECDwRhs4w
You could possibly mash the avionics of the F-22 into an F-15, but that still gives the F-22 an aerodynamic and powerplant advantage. Those would be harder to transfer. What you're referring to is Thrust Vectoring, the F-22 has it. The US had 3D TVC in the late 80's on the F-15 ACTIVE, the F-22 has 2D because that covers 90% of maneuvering and it's more stealthy.
huhuhu a cheap 5th gen fighter plane for the world...so the fuckin yank and its goons can no longer do what ever they wants.......suplly this baby to the iranian, arabs, venezuela, north korean and others country that needed protection from the imperialist of western double standard regime
What a beautiful bird she is!! She is loaded with character and she has a figure so sleek and well proportioned!!! If the PakFa was a woman she would be the most beautiful
Because of using the whole vertical tailplanes as rudders the PakFa is more efficient and has less drag. It makes the PakFa better in extreme manoeuvering and it gives the PakFa a better turn radius and better spin control!
If you compare them with the F-22 you will see that PakFa's vertical tailplanes are smaller because of using the whole vertical tailplane as a rudder. This is the first fighter ever to use this kind of vertical tailplane/rudder!
nothing special, another single built toy plane to show off, the odds of this ever getting to the front lines are below zero. Raptors are fully operational and i think there's a squadron of them already.
@DrHavoc1 Sounds like a damn good idea. An F15 can go anywhere on the planet with very little resistance. Or just make some new ones. Obviously the Mig29 and Sukhoi 27 derivativesdeserve their place at the top of the heap but the training of most of the countries air forces that fly them leaves quite a lot to be desired. As for the YF23? mm mm mm. I believe someone is looking over it once more for some other role.
Mig-29 family and Su-27 are jets that depend on the individual skill of the pilot more than anything else, the only limit they have is the limit of the human body to resist high G forces, and thats why you cant just put anyone in the cockpit. American fighter jets on the other hand don't require that much skill to be successful. If they ever made a plane that combined a russian body, american engines and israeli electronics, that would surely be the best plane in the world.
@DrHavoc1 I would just go with Russian mechanicals, russian engines and russian electronics. Everyone was laughing that the MiG25 used vacuum tubes in the radar and in other places throughout the plane but what they didnt factor in was that vacuum tubes are pretty much impervious to temperature extremes and when someone lets of a nuke and the EMP hits them, they will pretty much laugh and just keep on flying. What would the F22 do?
F22 would nose down and hit the ground with the speed only 150$mil can achieve.
And i disagree with you about the engines, american planes always had better engines.
Soviets ripped off their engines from captured Me-262's and british nins, which they were foolish enough to sell to the USSR,they later put it in MiG-15 and the rest is history. The air war in Korea was won thanks to more experienced pilots, not better planes, in fact yanks later admitted that the MiG-15 was better than the sabre.
@DrHavoc1 you made two mistakes on the bullshit you speak. First russian made fighter engines was on par with the americans saying that one is better than the other without any serious claims will only make you look stupid.. also the war on korean never had a victor.
Ever heard about the Tu-95? Why do you think it has turbo prop poweplant? Because the soviet engines at that time weren't enough to create an intercontinental bomber, they have always been behind on engine technology, look at Tu-16, Tu-22, and Tu22M3, all these bombers had to refuel in mid air to reach any kind of target because their engines were too hungry for fuel. The B-58 Hustler on the other hand, could fly at mach 2 and reach across the ocean without refueling, not mentioning the B-52.
@DrHavoc1 Tu95 had turbo props because it was designed that way. Still flying today because it is a great aircraft. As for the B58 strateigic bomber and Tu22 medium bomber, not easily compared although the range of the two were the same. 3000 miles or so. The B58 flying across the atlantic needed to refuel when flying supersonic. You really do need to get your facts straight. B52 will be 90 years old when retired. B58, XB70, B1, B1B, B2, made to replace it but never will.
When flying on a nuclear strike mission, a plane doesn't need to come back, because there wont be anywhere to come back to. My father had seen soviet combat maps for the Tu-22M3 and he said there was no returning course on them.
And they aren't replacing the B-52 because the tactical thinking has changed, whats the point of investing funds in intercontinental bombers when you can just launch a nuke that will have the same results without the risk of getting shot down?
@DrHavoc1 Do you actually think before you write? What combat maps. Where was the combat? Maybe the Tu22 pilots came back the same way they flew in. How many nuclear strike missions have ever been flown? 2? Although the B52, B1 and B2 can cary nuclear weapons, they have always ended up dropping iron. B52's are not being replaced because.........why would ya.
Oh yeah, i forgot, the Tu-22M3's that my father was talking about were with the soviet black sea fleet and were bound to destroy the 6th US fleet at the mediterreinian sea, armed with 3 nuclear missiles each. There was no course back because in the conditions of an all out nuclear warfare between the west and the east, both sides face total anihilation.
I bet you this plane will number 250 and be able to destroy any existing plane before the myriad bugs in the F-22 are fixed and it actually becomes combat-worthy haha.
well @ all amerifags and eurogays, yeah it has some similarity to some parts of the craptor, but u have to know that the russians were developing this look of the plane in the late 70's and in the 80's, so that's nothing new...
btw. the f-16 was partially developed on stolen data of the mig 25...
There was no data stolen with the production of the F-16, the MiG 25 wasnt even the reason the F-16 was made, the F-16 was made to out preform the MiG-21 after lessons learned in Vietnam. The F-15 was made to take on the Foxbat
@Devilsfurry The F16 was the fruit of the LWF program. YF16 and YF17 competed together. Unusual for this type of program though, the F16 won the contract and the YF17 was produced as the F18 for the USN. The F15 was plain and simple made to replace the ageing F4. MiG 25 was built as an interceptor for obvious reasons but poor US intelligence saw it as a fighter and tried to counter it. Top speed mach 3.23. Not bad for the technology at the time.
Vertical stabilizers (vertical tails) are fully movable as at Tu-160, the big distance and inclination of vertical tails - MiG-1.44, wide arrangement of engines - Su-35... Beauty!!!
whats the point of the low observable rcs if the jets gives off that much smoke? the ruskys' have been hoodwinked buying into the 'stealth' nonsense. they should just have concentrated on massive computing with high frequency radar in a digital info network. or a giant network of mobile phone masts, or just use an interceptor to look for the tanker/s the f22 is gonna have to be attached to at the nipple. ruskys wasting good money again. did star wars teach them nothing?
They have both of those. Also, Russians have plasma stealth, hence, their bombers that are more invisible than even the theoretical (as opposed to the REAL) F-22. However, the generator is too heavy for a fighter plane ;)
I don't think the plasma generator is placed in the front of the plane, sure - this is only a model but I think that's the way they cover their real planes with plasma
@bamingbaming that's higly unlikely, the production line is shut down, its a SHIT LOAD of work to reopen it and will only drive the cost through the roof...well its already over the roof as it is.
We shot down f 1117 and give the tech to Russians
MarkoJagodinac 1 year ago
@MarkoJagodinac nope you guys sell to china...
dansu92833 11 months ago
Russia and India = Forever Friends
m1y2sti3cal 1 year ago
I wonder what kind of color will the PAK FA RAM will be. Black or some kind of different color? I already seen a color scheme for the PAK FA in Blue and White and Cyan but I wonder if that's the final color for the production aircraft.
ANimouz 1 year ago
if this thing has lower wing loading than the f-22 it may have a chance (assuming comparable avionics..big assumption)
jdan007 1 year ago
not open in my pc y
zubarkaimkhani1 1 year ago
Which would negate the BVR ability and put reliance on the EODAS (inferring from your text), off bore-sight missiles (where IR comes in as well), and aircraft maneuverability.
plebe1985 1 year ago
With it. But never underestimate the other guy. Our joint helmet mounted displays came after the Russians developed theirs (yes America, Russia developed it first) and their investment into IR passive detection (the big glass bulb in the nose of their fighters) may offer them some advantages. I have yet to really look at what info we have on their IR ability, but probably most of it would be classified and not for public discussion. Sometimes we the mission may call for VID (visual ident)
plebe1985 1 year ago
@plebe1985 the F35's HMD's are by far the most advanced due to sensor integration.....also, the are made by Israel.
The first flight using the HMD happened just yesterday BTW.
The IRST on the front of sukhois is just a poor man's version of EOTS on the F35....and it also greatly increases aircraft RCS.
FXWorldBeater 1 year ago
First HMS were on the F-4 and Apache. F-4's never went into use, Apache's did.
KARASAWA40 1 year ago
FXWorldBeater, you seem to have the subject very well researched. As far as the F-35 goes, the only thing I know is that I will probably be an O-4 if and when I ever do get to fly it in the fleet. The simulator they let us pilot had some pretty nifty stuff in it though. Talking to an old buddy of mine, our technology gives us quite an advantage, a lot of which can be negated by effective and directive ECM. EODAS is quite impressive from it what sounds, although I am unfamiliar.
plebe1985 1 year ago
Comment removed
plebe1985 1 year ago
I apologize for my posts being disjointed somewhat. In the end, the debate which aircraft is better is subject to many things and is usually mostly academic and conjecture. The Russians have stated they need an influx of cash in order to get the meat (electronics package) of the PAK FA up and running and most believe this will come from the Indian government. So, until then, the Raptor has its stats from mock engagements, but the true test will come if and when they ever meet in the skies.
plebe1985 1 year ago
@plebe1985 Your point is valid to a point and was proven when US went up against India at Cope India then again at Red Flag.
At Cope, India put its top SU30 and Mig 21pilots up against US F15's and F16's with a mix of rookie and experienced pilots and prevailed.
At Red Flag, the Indians brought a standard operational squadron and had a number 1v1's against USAF aggressor pilots and lost almost every fight.
With 4th gen aircraft, pilot ability and situational awareness is king.
FXWorldBeater 1 year ago
@plebe1985 The exception to your point is with the F35 in WVR combat. As I mentioned, pilot skill is all about situational awareness, being able to keep your eyes on the enemy and react accordingly with 4th gen aircraft.
The F35 has the EODAS system which effectively gives the aicraft and pilot a 360 degree view around the plane. EODAS continually tracks enemy aicraft with visual range and is used to queue and assist with missile guidance.
FXWorldBeater 1 year ago
@plebe1985 When it comes to knife fighting with an F35, the pilot just has to select the target from a list on his display, then he can continue firing no matter where the enemy is, without the need to get the target into his boresight or HMD as with all other aicraft.
The enemy pilot then loses all initiative and has to evade or die.
With the software (not the freely available hardware) built into the F35, moderately good pilots are able to beat veterans.
FXWorldBeater 1 year ago
@plebe1985 Enemy aircraft stealth, countermeasures, ECM, jamming...etc, all becomes obsolete in this situation as the EODAS system visually guides the missile to its target.
The only chance the enemy aicraft has of survival is to successfully dodge 5 - 6 missiles which only weigh 80kg and have thrust vectoring (remembering the countermeasures don't work because they are guided visually).
FXWorldBeater 1 year ago
He has barely the training required that allows him to safely operate the aircraft. Now lets say he meets up with a Russian Colonel who has 15 years of flying experience and is flying an upgraded M-29 or SU-30. My money is on the Colonel.
plebe1985 1 year ago
In the end, and I believe the Russian pilot here would agree with me, that it is not the machine that makes the fight, but the pilot, although the hardware can really aid a competent pilot. I'll give you an example. Imagine that we have a brand new pilot, one who has maybe 6 months of training and is given command of a F-22 raptor. He has barely the training required that allows him to safely operate the aircraft. Now lets say he meets up with a Russian Colonel who has
plebe1985 1 year ago
characteristics. The Russians were concerned with function, not form and to know exactly where you didn't need to streamline showed in-depth understanding of their aerodynamics. This also made the aircraft cheaper and easier to produce. In military flight training they tell you, and this is why our military (can't say for the Russians because I've never watched their training) spends so much time training pilots.
plebe1985 1 year ago
not in airframe design. Now that electronics are over-the-counter and readily available as well as the technology, I feel that the technological gap between the two is far narrower. Back in the 1970s when a MIG-25 pilot defected to Japan, initially we were making fun of the crudeness of the design. Upon closer inspection, our engineers had to give credit to the Russian engineers because the crudeness was determined to be ineffectual to the flight characteristics.
plebe1985 1 year ago
Well it looks like I am rather late on getting into this conversation. There is obviously a great mix of national pride and USA rebuking going on in here, but I just want to put my two cents in. The Russians and the US have very sound (or at least Russia did) weapon programs. Despite claims of Russian hardware being inferior, their defense programs kept a great deal of Americans and Western powers up at night. True supremacy over Russian hardware came in the form of electronics,
plebe1985 1 year ago
This video STINKS with AmeriCUNT trolls!
BANKRUPT country!
TeslaGenius 1 year ago
I sense that there was a lot of sibling rivalry between your two grandfathers.....just a hunch.
FXWorldBeater 1 year ago
The american fifth generation is officially dead
ReDDDgo 2 years ago
Its a shame the american 6th gen project starts in 2020 (read the news report about the FY11 US budget). This jet may have had a day in the sun....if it was as stealthy as an F22...which it isn't.
FXWorldBeater 2 years ago
@FXWorldBeater Who the fuck told you that, the nigger and chief cancelled all that shit. He stopped production of the F-22, among many other things. Also, its a fucking prototype get a fucking life loser.
scarface8999 2 years ago
The US government told me that...
janes . com / news / defence / jdw / jdw100215_1_n . shtml
militarytimes . com / static / projects / pages / 30yearaviation . pdf
You seemed to have difficultly understanding my comment that PAK FA would have had its day if it was only going against the F22. Unfortunately it will be going against something much more advanced.
Your low intellect was revealed by your jump straight to abuse...so I guess I should have restricted myself to small words.
FXWorldBeater 2 years ago
FartWorldBeater
I've seen that CRAP document which is just PLANING(doesn't even mean that things will happen as it is planned )
on top there is NOTHING about 6th generation plane ASSHOLE !
TeslaGenius 2 years ago
You convince yourself of that buddy, whatever makesd you feel safe again. And in 2024 when we watch the first flight....you can just pretend its a fake.
In 2027 when Russia has only managed to build 30 PAK FA's for itself and the US already has 200 FX's, you can pretend its not happening....just so you feel safe again.
FXWorldBeater 2 years ago
FartWorldBeater
Your proves are FALSE you are desperate delusional & your shit country is bankrupt
Go away idiot & don't bother me with your
bullshit talking right out of your ass!
TeslaGenius 2 years ago
LOL TeslaShortBusRider....japan going to cancel the US alliance and buy the PAK FA....ahahaha, still makes me laugh.
Your IQ must be somewhere between 85 and 90, high enough to type....too low to form logical thoughts. Does your mommy still put the cork on your fork at dinner time?
FXWorldBeater 2 years ago
Maybe you don't get the news in special school but US GDP growth was +6% last quarter. Compared to Russia -8%. Russia is a broke country become more broke. 9% inflation...holy crap, your tiny little economy really IS in trouble eh? Maybe one day you guys will have a bigger economy than California....probably not though, you products are poor quality and raw resources are cheaper elsewhere.
FXWorldBeater 2 years ago
Oh dear. The US FY11 budget was released to the press yesterday and contained a document titled "Aircraft Investment Plan FY2011-FY2040".
The thing of interest in the document is that US plans to start development of a fighter to supercede the F-22's in 2020 with production starting in 2025.
janes . com / news / defence / jdw / jdw100215_1_n . shtml
militarytimes . com / static / projects / pages / 30yearaviation . pdf
Wonder if India will pull out now and cause the programme to die.
FXWorldBeater 2 years ago
Pull about because the USAF is making a new plane? Who didn't see that coming. You're saying they're just going to throw away all the money, development, and technology and rely on older planes until 2020? Not a chance.
KARASAWA40 2 years ago
uh sorry sir...the new aircraft is the f-35. the f-22 is too expensive and the f-15 is still kicking ass. f-16 is being retired and the f-35 will be replacing them. then it will be the a-10 and then the f-18.
Whatup5656 2 years ago
F15 is not kicking arse so well. US already know that late model SU's are better than the 15.
The F35 will be significantly better than 4th gen SU's but they still want an air superiority "super jets" which only the US will own.
Also F35's will replace older model F15's.
FXWorldBeater 2 years ago
I think you misunderstood me. What you said doesn't really have much to do with my comment. And the F-22 isn't too expensive, it's just that Obama doesn't think it's necessary at the moment. F-15 is good, but getting old. It doesn't hold an huge edge over its rivals.
KARASAWA40 2 years ago
i doubt we will ever see the f-22 being developed again. its an old jet too. it was being designed in the early 80's.
"US already know that late model SU's are better than the 15."
thats majority of america's problem. russia isnt against the US right now. the f-15 is kicking terrorist's asses. so it is the aircraft right now. even that the f-15 will be around for at least another 30 years.
Whatup5656 2 years ago
1 F-22 worth around 320 million dollars not expensive huh? F35 was like 135 million some near that on F35 i dont remember the exact but is near that. later
NarutoCentral100 2 years ago
At 150 million, the F-22 doesn't even cost as much as two Su-35's. The F-15 K cost 100 million, and one F-22 can probably handle a flight of those on its own. The F-22 is worth every bit of its price given how far ahead of everything else it is.
KARASAWA40 2 years ago
F35 starting price is 205million and price AFTER USA buys (planed) 2440 F35 is 112million per plane now and will continue RISING in price
cause production will be postponed for 3years till 2016 and F35 will be even more expensive !
TeslaGenius 1 year ago
"start development of a fighter to supercede the F-22's in 2020"
what development? currently severing in the air force. they have gone with the joint task fighter f-35. it will be around for at least 50 years sir. not enough crew chiefs to be bouncing around on new aircraft.
Whatup5656 2 years ago
Fart-22 Craptor is going downnnn,
bhartha2007 2 years ago
Comment removed
bhartha2007 2 years ago
Sometimes you think they've built amazing aircraft already...and then they bring out something new again. And it's like...WOW.
Flatline89 2 years ago 3
PAK FA is the new beast and the best a/c right now
bhartha2007 2 years ago
@Flatline89 - ....and much cheaper )))
Anymuster 1 year ago
Poor wing design and I'm pretty sure Sukhoi knows it. With thurst vectoring, you need to reduce the wing area and underside drag at the back of the plane or you just can't preform high performance turns.
Pretty sure after a redesign, you'll see the wings looking more triangular like the F22's.
Without changing the design, this plane will just end up executing "cobra maneuvers" every time it wants to pull a hard TVC turn.
This is what a real TVC turn looks like.....
watch?v=PyKYw_p1Hrc
excredor 2 years ago
...in the turn at around 8 seconds into that movie, you see the back of the plane cutting through the air.
41 seconds into the following movie shows what happens if you have too much wing and drag on the back underside of a jet when turning under TVC.
watch?v=vGtQ5PVQJMs
People think the "cobra" is impressiveand useful but its actually an aerodynamics problem.
The best turn any TVC plane can do with so much lift at the back is shown at 13 seconds into that movie.
excredor 2 years ago
@excredor
OKAY Mr Genius, I will ask sukhoi engineers to learn from you. Also I will send Tyaagi students too. What a tool?
bhartha2007 2 years ago
Well Sukhoi did say that they built the Berkut with forward sweeping wings to try and fix this issue.
It seems that they'd prefer the stealth to better performing TVC. They don't need to learn from me, they already know the limitations, they're just willing to compromise the performance for the stealth.
Simply, Sukhoi need to package their fighters so they are a lot smaller (make smaller components). Until then aerodynamics will work against them, simple physics.
excredor 2 years ago
@excredor
Non sense! If russians were to sacrifice TVC for stealth as your highness have described, then they would not have TVC engines on PAK FA. What a tool!
bhartha2007 2 years ago
Besides, I can show the video of how the F22 turns at high speed as proof of my statement.
Post a video of an SU doing a similar turn to that (160 degree turn in 4 seconds at high speed....not airshow stall turning)
excredor 2 years ago
@excredor
F-22 was challenged at farnborough airshow to show what you call 160 degree versus Su-35 or su-30. F-22 balked out! So much for the so called F-22. IT is tiger to folks here in USA not outside, it is cat, meow. It pissed, yeah, it was pissing in its pants, sorry, it is NOT the best maneuverable a/c in the world. Yeah, worthless, expensive piece of shit ever! F-22 sucks, sorry, this is THE reality.
bhartha2007 2 years ago
Show proof of comments if you're going to post them (challenge at farnsborugh show).
F22 is the BEST fighter jet in history and will remain so until the US 6th gen A2A solution. Sukhoi can build airshow planes but they are years behind in combat aircraft.
What you saw in the F22 video I posted....no sukhoi can do, because they are too large...otherwise they'd be on youtube wouldn't they..instead we see videos of sukhoi's stalling and recovering using TVC.
PAKFA, way too large not a threat.
excredor 2 years ago
If you want to prove the ACTUAL maneuverability, show links to a video. Pretty much every one I saw of any sukhoi jets just show bif clumsy things falling out of the sky...not so impressive.
US to want to put a clean F22 up in the sky to be scrutinised by the SU35's radar would be kinda dumb in any event.......sorta like the idiot Indians taking their SU30's to Red Flag and show off the jet's only useful feature, post stall maneuvers. Russia should have cancelled their contracts for that.
excredor 2 years ago
Clumsy things falling off,.then you have already made up your mind. I am seeing videos where F-22 can not make maneuver you are talking aboutit is too gay. Just a 2d vectoring for a pitch is all I saw. And I saw a cobra manuever, I could not stop laughing. It can not do good the things it is made for..fucked up plane...anyways...show me the link first where it can be 180 degree side spin and vertical spin...and post stall with direction change of 360 degree....guess what...you can not
bhartha2007 2 years ago
Thats what I mean, the SU is built for airshows. Post stall maneuvers only get you shot down in real combat because you are basically sitting still in the sky. This will be especially so against the F35 which doesn't need to be facing you to shoot you due to EODAS.
Still, guess you can't show proof of that su35 turning challenge so I can only assume you're full of shit.
excredor 2 years ago
The fact you think post stall maneuvers and the "cobra" are used in actual combat by experienced pilots sorta proves you have no idea what you're talking about.
Do some research on how experienced SU pilots avoid getting into post stall maneuvering during combat then start commenting on fighter aircraft and aerodynamics. Until then, hush.
excredor 2 years ago
@excredor
show me the link where F-22 does this stupid move of 180 degree in 3 seconds...total bullshit...craptor...
bhartha2007 2 years ago
watch?v=PyKYw_p1Hrc
8 seconds into the movie....160 degrees in 4 seconds at high speed.
Now show me a similar one with an SU which is not stalling.
This is the only one I can find of an SU.....
watch?v=vGtQ5PVQJMs
At 13 seconds in, it does 90 degrees in 4 seconds.
160/90 = raptor performs actual dogfighting turns 77 percent faster.
excredor 2 years ago
@excredor
This video is so GAY....160 is 4 seconds is all you got!, I laugh at this..where as Su-37 Terminator can do a 360 vertical flip in 4 seconds, a spin of 180 degree in 3 seconds..do not ask for A video proof, there are tons n tonds of videos here in youtube. You just have to open your WEIRD EYES, thats all, hahahahah
bhartha2007 2 years ago
ok, quite obvious I'm dealing with someone of much lower intelligence. Don't know why I bother to argue with people who thing air combat is about "pulling moves" like it Tom Clancy's Hawx or something.
But show me one video of an SU with vapor trails coming off the whole plane (not just the wing tips).
But I guess a person of your high calibre will show me videos of an SU releasing smoke while "pulling awesome moves".
excredor 2 years ago
@excredor
Oh, So u r einstein then oh Mr intelligent here, wow. Mr intelligent thinks vapor trails is effective and challenges other to show if that is possible in sukhoi a/c. What a tool. These stunts as you call it r an effective weapon in combat. Surprising the enemy is THE MOST effective tool in a air to air combat. Because the surprise will put enemy in disadvantage n u can finish him in the sky. That, my friend the Fart-22 craptor can not do. Oh, by the way I am of High Calibre n u r NOT
bhartha2007 2 years ago
Lol, back to your taxi cab popodum.
excredor 2 years ago
@excredor
Whatever makes you happy BUT Fart-22 sucks altime! hahahaha, and sing russian anthem and go to sleep.
PAK FA rulesssssssssssssssssssssssss
bhartha2007 2 years ago
@excredor
The sukhoi story part 7(final)
bhartha2007 2 years ago
@excredor
Type "The sukhoi story part 7(final)" and watch the fear of F-22 about Su-37. FART-22 and the pilot are shaking and pissing in their pants, hahahahahha, the pilot goes "it would be an interesting fight" when the russian designer challenged Fart-22, hahahaha, Gay Fart-22.
bhartha2007 2 years ago
Post stall maneuvers would be very surprising, it would mean the pilot performing the maneuvers is basically letting himself be shot down. The moves done by the F-22 and Flanker at airshows are for airshows. In air combat, going slow like that is a death sentence vs missiles.
KARASAWA40 2 years ago 6
Agreed...you'd have to be a fucking retard to stall a 40tonne plane using thrust vectoring when there's a 80kg missile chasing you which also has thrust vectoring and can turn a lot fucking faster than you can.
Bacically stall maneuvers turn a jet into a helicopter....and jets have no problems shooting down helicopters.
I love when SU fanboi's jump on here saying that the "cobra" is the ULTIMATE DOGFIGHT MOVE!!! The cobra is actually a failed attempt at pulling a fast turn with TVC.
FXWorldBeater 2 years ago
@KARASAWA40
with ECM&ECCM+a large number of priorities in the airspace, that slow speed high AOA flight might just be important. the idea isn't to bleed energy in a dogfight, its too be able to still fight with your airplane if you find yourself in a position w/inferior energy. if you are in a merge with a contact and another shows up, you can be forced into a bad slow spot where post-stall acm can save your ass.
jdan007 1 year ago
Not really, no matter what you're going to be slow and vulnerable. If you've forced a fighter into post stall in a fight larger than 1 on 1, you've won. He won't be able to avoid your missiles. The best case for the post stall plane is a draw (gets to fire before destroyed by enemy missile).
KARASAWA40 1 year ago
F-22 is an ugly duckling and more importantly an inferior a/c to PAK FA. F-22 craptor can never ever think of challenging Su-37 let alone PAK FA. PAK FA the new emperor of the sky!
bhartha2007 2 years ago
I'll tell you something...Russians have been back in technology because of one very simple thing...the LACK of money.If there is enough money there will be a great plane which will enter service in the next 4 maybe 5 years.
mouzata 2 years ago
USA was once called the ' beacon of hope' nad rightfully so. During the second waorld war... they did what nobody could do. The last two decades has changed that perception into " Evil country', which goes about killing innocent people in the name of WMD. I do not know which country it is going to invade next...for all those people who live with a fear of this EVIL country..PAK FA comes as ray of hope...A hope which USA should have is not there anymore...feel very sad.
bhartha2007 2 years ago
Pak-fa is very interesting; it summarizes the ceiling of mig-31 (20,000m and over),supermanoeuvrability of Su-27/30,and she has got LowFrequencies detectors inorder to find stalth targets (B2,F35),too.We don't know what is her RCS for conventional radars,but there are information according to which it could be betweenF-35's and F-22's one
anisocoro 2 years ago
looks very similar to YF-23..
still this is a very good job, if everything works properly then I must say im impressed. =)
watch?v=IQi-IaFO3kk
nem1 2 years ago
Looks stunning! GO Russia! :)
madedd02 2 years ago
PAK FA is a very very good design, just love it. PAK FA kicks some serious ass.
bhartha2007 2 years ago
First of all, PAK FA design looks much more formidable, there is no doubt about that. For all those cribbing that f-22 is great. Let me tell this, you did not expect this kind of aircraft design from the russians. You expected some version of su-47 to begin and now face the traumatic reality of PAK FA design, which in your mind, you know is as good as any fifth generation design and beyond. This is just a PROTOTYPE...so relax...it will take time to be fully operational. We are looking at 2020.
bhartha2007 2 years ago
Actually bhartha2007 I was completely expecting the Russians to copy the body design of the F-22 and slightly modify it to look more like a Sukhoi. I'm not at all surprised that the Russians abandoned their iconic airframes and built something that highly resembles the F-22.
But that might just be me....
NifoOtiBoy 2 years ago
To me it looks like a 50/50 blend of the Su-27 and the F-22. Stealth doesn't have very many looks ;-)
We all know that to work stealth has to incorporate certain shapes and to me it looks like the Russians just took their Su-27 and changed it just enough to be stealthy. And why invent new technology when you can do it with technology that's already here at a fraction of the price?Here we have a typical Russian aircraft in that it is cheap (1/6 of the Raptor programs cost).
draale 2 years ago
the united states has had alot of experience with stealth fighters and bombers, over more than 30 years which makes doubt that the T-50 is equal to the f-22... anyways by the time the T-50 is operational the f-22 would have been in service for 10 or even 15 years making it have already advance upgrades.
if the usa only has 186 f-22 i highly doubt the russians are going to have 200 T-50 taking into account they hardly have any su-35 in service...
usa303 2 years ago
the Russians may only get 50 or less....no way hell there getting over 200
tamainemiller 2 years ago
watch?v=nUQ5YM2p0GQ&feature=PlayList&p=109A2DAA18C7067D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=29
watch this video on 3:54
123peda123 2 years ago
i hope this fighter cost less than 100 million U.S $, so all nation can enjoyed the safety that this plane give to repel american bullying act.....
jengkollovers 2 years ago
@Allanvh5150. Your own experience? I'm surprised. How much time you spent flying F-15 or F-16? Or maybe even you had a combat against F-22?? I dont think so. So how can you compare them? I'm sure the very main reason you are here wrighting all these messages is so-called patriotism. I dont want to say anything bad about Soviet aircrafts. But if someone says that they are best for sure - it means that the one who's telling it just hates US. That's why I'm telling about history. Stats aint patriot
airkriuk 2 years ago
@airkriuk you obviously cant read. When have I said anything about being the best. My experience obviously points to everything that I have first hand experience flying. I have secong hand experience of F15 and F16 but not the F22. The former being two great planes that have been proven in combat many times. The F15 is the equal of the original Su27 but the F16 is not really in the same league as the Mig29. Having said that, on a day to day basis, they are pretty well matched.
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
When you watch History I will bet a lot of money on Russia not building more then 20 for their own air force. It doesn't look like it has that good of a stealth technology either. It's likely to be better then the Eurofighter and such aircraft... It just doesn't strike me as an F-22 killer.
vonschnorkel 2 years ago
I can see the americans shitting their pants now:
fredgt28 2 years ago
Raptor is dead!!!
jaqb17 2 years ago
how much is a PAK FA ??
I heard that is 20-40 million dollars, is that right ?? This one is freaking cheap compare to ~200m for F22 o.O.
CRUSADERO1 2 years ago
PAK-FA is $100 million.
According to the GAO, current F-22 costs exceed $350 million.
GoldenZealot21 2 years ago
It looks pathetic that russian air forces pilot is enough enthusiastic and has enough time to write all these things about americans and american jet fighters on american website... Where's your dignity?
I also want to say that history tells us that during wars and conflicts US jets have downed a certain number of Soviet aircrafts. Only stats, no trash talk. Thanks.
airkriuk 2 years ago
@airkriuk I guess that you talk of me? I speak from my own experience. It really annoys me when people compare US hardware with well trained US pilots competing against Russian hardware mostly with very unskilled people at the stick. During many of these encounters the pilots flying Russian planes could only just manage to fly in a straight line. Totaly fair comparison would you say? I fly some of the best aircraft on the planet, how many other youtube jockies can say that?
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
ha, there just so happened to have been a competition of the best aircraft, i just so happen to know the facts and the link to it.
these are kill ratios to the su-35:
Rafale:1.1: to1
Eurofighter: 4.5: to 1
F-22: 10: to 1
just incase you dont understand,
the first number is how many it shot down before being killed.
example: Eurofighter shot down about 4.5 su-35s before being shot down.
so... the f-22 costs about the same as 3, su-35s but it shoots down 10.
Do the math... We won.
armydude162 2 years ago
@armydude162 Sure, doing the math we can see that th Su35 has never been flown against any of these aircraft and probably never will. What has the F22 got that will allow it to shoot down 10 aircraft in one sortie? Does the pilot have the stamina to do it? Does the aircraft have the fuel to do it. Nothing, no and no. Having said that, according to you, if the Su35 can get one kill on an F22, by deffinition it can achieve a 1 to 1 kill ratio. Numbers on paper are rather meaningless.
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
Oh yeah? who wrote that statistics? And excuse me for being bold, but the eurofighter is a piece of crap, imo, even the tornado is better. Also, where does the F-22 carry 10 guided missiles(assuming that they all hit, very not likely), and there is NO way that the F-22 can match the sukhoi in a dogfight lol.
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
Why is the EF-2000 "crap", especially with superior performance, avionics, and weapons compared to ADV, most F-15's, etc? F-22 carries 8 missiles internally, at least 4 externally. The F-22 can probably match anything in a dogfight for all that's actually known.
KARASAWA40 2 years ago
If it carries external ammunition it looses all stealth qualities, which turns it into a very very expensive F-15. And i disagree about the raptors ability to match soviet planes in a dogfight, they will simply outturn it if they get close enough.
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
You asked how the F-22 carries 10 missiles. Even without stealth the F-22 is a threat, far more than any F-15. Also, an argument that debates classified info is not a strong one. You have no reason whatsoever to believe the Sukhoi is more agile when no one knows how agile the F-22 is, besides Lockheed's claims of high agility.
KARASAWA40 2 years ago
I don't believe that the electronics of the raptor can't be mounted on the F-15, i bet it would cost two times cheaper aswell.
True, i don't know just how agile the F-22 is, however, i do know how agile the sukhoi is, as agile as a sports plane, and i also know why its so agile. Apart of excellent aerodynamics it also has moving afterburners which vector the thrust of the engines and help with the steering, here's a vid of it if you wanna know what im talking about: watch?v=7LECDwRhs4w
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
You could possibly mash the avionics of the F-22 into an F-15, but that still gives the F-22 an aerodynamic and powerplant advantage. Those would be harder to transfer. What you're referring to is Thrust Vectoring, the F-22 has it. The US had 3D TVC in the late 80's on the F-15 ACTIVE, the F-22 has 2D because that covers 90% of maneuvering and it's more stealthy.
KARASAWA40 2 years ago
bullshit....
tamainemiller 2 years ago
huhuhu a cheap 5th gen fighter plane for the world...so the fuckin yank and its goons can no longer do what ever they wants.......suplly this baby to the iranian, arabs, venezuela, north korean and others country that needed protection from the imperialist of western double standard regime
jengkollovers 2 years ago
haha i look forward to that ;-)
SovjetPhoenix 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What a beautiful bird she is!! She is loaded with character and she has a figure so sleek and well proportioned!!! If the PakFa was a woman she would be the most beautiful
and sexy woman in the world!! ^_^
frankyspeaker 2 years ago
Кукурузник 5-ого поколения.
MelodyPlanet 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
REVOLUTIONARY:
Because of using the whole vertical tailplanes as rudders the PakFa is more efficient and has less drag. It makes the PakFa better in extreme manoeuvering and it gives the PakFa a better turn radius and better spin control!
If you compare them with the F-22 you will see that PakFa's vertical tailplanes are smaller because of using the whole vertical tailplane as a rudder. This is the first fighter ever to use this kind of vertical tailplane/rudder!
frankyspeaker 2 years ago
nothing special, another single built toy plane to show off, the odds of this ever getting to the front lines are below zero. Raptors are fully operational and i think there's a squadron of them already.
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
There are more than 160 Raptors operational. But there's a small problem - they get rusty.
shvaky 2 years ago
@shvaky yup and they run about 50% operational readiness.
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
so what do we learn? modernize F-15's and F-18's and screw them stealth crap...
I personally like the YF-23, looks superb imo..
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
@DrHavoc1 Sounds like a damn good idea. An F15 can go anywhere on the planet with very little resistance. Or just make some new ones. Obviously the Mig29 and Sukhoi 27 derivativesdeserve their place at the top of the heap but the training of most of the countries air forces that fly them leaves quite a lot to be desired. As for the YF23? mm mm mm. I believe someone is looking over it once more for some other role.
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
Mig-29 family and Su-27 are jets that depend on the individual skill of the pilot more than anything else, the only limit they have is the limit of the human body to resist high G forces, and thats why you cant just put anyone in the cockpit. American fighter jets on the other hand don't require that much skill to be successful. If they ever made a plane that combined a russian body, american engines and israeli electronics, that would surely be the best plane in the world.
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
@DrHavoc1 I would just go with Russian mechanicals, russian engines and russian electronics. Everyone was laughing that the MiG25 used vacuum tubes in the radar and in other places throughout the plane but what they didnt factor in was that vacuum tubes are pretty much impervious to temperature extremes and when someone lets of a nuke and the EMP hits them, they will pretty much laugh and just keep on flying. What would the F22 do?
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
F22 would nose down and hit the ground with the speed only 150$mil can achieve.
And i disagree with you about the engines, american planes always had better engines.
Soviets ripped off their engines from captured Me-262's and british nins, which they were foolish enough to sell to the USSR,they later put it in MiG-15 and the rest is history. The air war in Korea was won thanks to more experienced pilots, not better planes, in fact yanks later admitted that the MiG-15 was better than the sabre.
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
No the f-86 shot down 787 mig-15 for only 78 sabers shot down.
N1cholas240 2 years ago
because the F-86's were flown by ww2 veterans while the migs were flown by rookie hastedly trained chineese pilots.
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
@DrHavoc1 you made two mistakes on the bullshit you speak. First russian made fighter engines was on par with the americans saying that one is better than the other without any serious claims will only make you look stupid.. also the war on korean never had a victor.
ANimouz 2 years ago
Ever heard about the Tu-95? Why do you think it has turbo prop poweplant? Because the soviet engines at that time weren't enough to create an intercontinental bomber, they have always been behind on engine technology, look at Tu-16, Tu-22, and Tu22M3, all these bombers had to refuel in mid air to reach any kind of target because their engines were too hungry for fuel. The B-58 Hustler on the other hand, could fly at mach 2 and reach across the ocean without refueling, not mentioning the B-52.
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
@DrHavoc1 Tu95 had turbo props because it was designed that way. Still flying today because it is a great aircraft. As for the B58 strateigic bomber and Tu22 medium bomber, not easily compared although the range of the two were the same. 3000 miles or so. The B58 flying across the atlantic needed to refuel when flying supersonic. You really do need to get your facts straight. B52 will be 90 years old when retired. B58, XB70, B1, B1B, B2, made to replace it but never will.
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
When flying on a nuclear strike mission, a plane doesn't need to come back, because there wont be anywhere to come back to. My father had seen soviet combat maps for the Tu-22M3 and he said there was no returning course on them.
And they aren't replacing the B-52 because the tactical thinking has changed, whats the point of investing funds in intercontinental bombers when you can just launch a nuke that will have the same results without the risk of getting shot down?
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
@DrHavoc1 Do you actually think before you write? What combat maps. Where was the combat? Maybe the Tu22 pilots came back the same way they flew in. How many nuclear strike missions have ever been flown? 2? Although the B52, B1 and B2 can cary nuclear weapons, they have always ended up dropping iron. B52's are not being replaced because.........why would ya.
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
Oh yeah, i forgot, the Tu-22M3's that my father was talking about were with the soviet black sea fleet and were bound to destroy the 6th US fleet at the mediterreinian sea, armed with 3 nuclear missiles each. There was no course back because in the conditions of an all out nuclear warfare between the west and the east, both sides face total anihilation.
The B52 is too awesome to be replaced.
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
I bet you this plane will number 250 and be able to destroy any existing plane before the myriad bugs in the F-22 are fixed and it actually becomes combat-worthy haha.
GoldenZealot21 2 years ago
well @ all amerifags and eurogays, yeah it has some similarity to some parts of the craptor, but u have to know that the russians were developing this look of the plane in the late 70's and in the 80's, so that's nothing new...
btw. the f-16 was partially developed on stolen data of the mig 25...
123peda123 2 years ago
There was no data stolen with the production of the F-16, the MiG 25 wasnt even the reason the F-16 was made, the F-16 was made to out preform the MiG-21 after lessons learned in Vietnam. The F-15 was made to take on the Foxbat
Devilsfurry 2 years ago
@Devilsfurry The F16 was the fruit of the LWF program. YF16 and YF17 competed together. Unusual for this type of program though, the F16 won the contract and the YF17 was produced as the F18 for the USN. The F15 was plain and simple made to replace the ageing F4. MiG 25 was built as an interceptor for obvious reasons but poor US intelligence saw it as a fighter and tried to counter it. Top speed mach 3.23. Not bad for the technology at the time.
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
F-15 was also based on the MiG-25 lol.
GoldenZealot21 2 years ago
@GoldenZealot21 It must have been, it has 2 tails!!!:):):)
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Vertical stabilizers (vertical tails) are fully movable as at Tu-160, the big distance and inclination of vertical tails - MiG-1.44, wide arrangement of engines - Su-35... Beauty!!!
shadowname1 2 years ago 2
I'm American but i live in russia and i heard it flying yesterday and it was really loud
KatiaAkaFab 2 years ago 2
whats the point of the low observable rcs if the jets gives off that much smoke? the ruskys' have been hoodwinked buying into the 'stealth' nonsense. they should just have concentrated on massive computing with high frequency radar in a digital info network. or a giant network of mobile phone masts, or just use an interceptor to look for the tanker/s the f22 is gonna have to be attached to at the nipple. ruskys wasting good money again. did star wars teach them nothing?
i expected better :-(
justnotcricket 2 years ago
They have both of those. Also, Russians have plasma stealth, hence, their bombers that are more invisible than even the theoretical (as opposed to the REAL) F-22. However, the generator is too heavy for a fighter plane ;)
GoldenZealot21 2 years ago
they've been installing plasma stealth on their mig 29 fighter for some experiments...
123peda123 2 years ago
Hmm. Do you have any websites with info. on this? I'd like to read about it.
GoldenZealot21 2 years ago
look for it on youtube...
worldaffairsboard*com|military-aviation|4528-mig-29-falcon-hunter-exclusive-winner.html
the MiG-29 SMT/SMT2 has plasma stealth capabilities...
123peda123 2 years ago
Read the post two posts after, though :((
And how the heck do put a 100 kg generator on a medium fighter??
GoldenZealot21 2 years ago
watch?v=XiTCPoIufjc watch this at 1:20
I don't think the plasma generator is placed in the front of the plane, sure - this is only a model but I think that's the way they cover their real planes with plasma
123peda123 2 years ago
@GoldenZealot21 Well actually, It isnt.
Allanvh5150 2 years ago
Well, 100kg in the front is enough to offset the aerodynamics of a fighter plane. I don't know what the RuAF is doing though.
GoldenZealot21 2 years ago
looks like the F-22 and f-14....
i dont like it
stephen0p0g 2 years ago
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ROFL! It looks like an F-22's gay son. Dumbass Russians.
mout12 2 years ago
@mout12 lol
sprig3432 2 years ago
It looks like this plane is mainly designed around front aspect stealth. I'm looking foward to the production model...
bujoun76 2 years ago
ChocolateMagicEyes, ты бы хотя бы узнал, что такое стелс для начала, а потом уже всякую чушь бы тут писал.
soulofautumn 2 years ago
"Руский стелс" чото не похохе, и до стелса ему как человеку до...
ChocolateMagicEyes 2 years ago
probably runs on coal or something.
crazyjedimindtrick 2 years ago
good one m8 XD
DrHavoc1 2 years ago
Looks like a bastard of F-22 and Su-35! :)))
HappyRoger123 2 years ago 2
awesome
19810101PR 2 years ago 2
Ну на Ф-22 он не похож!!! В целом машина супер!!!
YaVepr 2 years ago 6
doesn't look like it can beat raptor......
baddudland 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
kind of hard since it is a fucking copy of F22
like everythng else Ruskies has copied from USA
and Russia still shit.
Even China can kick their ass!
SuperSexyCommando 2 years ago
it doesn't even look like f-22 stupid George Bush!
styfler131313 2 years ago 2
@SuperSexyCommando
Go back to school stupid))))
cepera85 2 years ago
Chinese Hummer will be awesome too.
CliniQm 2 years ago
Actually, the Chinese are shit scared of Russia, but the Chinese CAN kick USA's ass ;)
GoldenZealot21 2 years ago
@SuperSexyCommando gay fag
sprig3432 2 years ago
it is just a model for further testing and improving
styfler131313 2 years ago
somehow, i highly doubt that the Russians will be able to put it in service by 2015, but good job anyways
jsyn1230 2 years ago
Great, and then USAF can buy more F-22!
bamingbaming 2 years ago
@bamingbaming that's higly unlikely, the production line is shut down, its a SHIT LOAD of work to reopen it and will only drive the cost through the roof...well its already over the roof as it is.
jsyn1230 2 years ago
lol they should! ofr 150kk per one :D
Russia2010 2 years ago