YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon. Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day believers. The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes such nonsense. Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom.
God allowed my ancestors Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Thus, allowing us “to be like gods, and know the difference between good and evil”. This very biblical verse, written in the first book of Genesis, conflicts with the same argument these Christians attempt to use. If we as humans are now capable of knowing good and evil LIKE THE GODS why can't we use our judgment?
Please read verse Isaiah 45:7. “I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the lord do all these things”. The Christian God outright claims that he is indeed the source of evil. So how can he then claim to be sinless?
I don't want to live forever.. and If I have to it doesn't seem to make sense I have to die after so many years to teleport to the real place I will exist for eternity based on 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the decisions ill make in my existence
1853 trillion years later, in hell...
"I wish I wasn't born into the wrong culture back then"
@Pentagon1337 See, this is what I hate about Youtube. You can't be friendly with anyone without getting snapped at. Everyone's on edge and ready for a fight like a bunch of over-excited frat boys.
@SeedsOfHatred Excuse me sir, but by telling me to grow up and calling me kiddo, l believe you do not harbor nice feelings towards my presence.
l in no means tend to act like a total dick. l was in a mood where l was steaming off over something irrelevant, and l was not cooled down as of yet. My apology if l stepped on your toes or came across unfriendly in any way. l also want to note that l am 18 years old, and is considered as the adult age by law.
@Pentagon1337 i am an atheist and have no problem with religion. well that is until IT'S CHANGING THE WAY WE LIVE. for example, look at today's date February ''2011'' we base the year on when 'our divine savoir' was born.
@taylan637 at least its now officially 2011 of the common era (CE).. and anything before that is before the common era (BCE) instead of before christ (BC) and after death (AD). thats one small step for zeus, and one giant leap for greek mythology.
@taylan637 Religion already *is* changing the way we live, and has been for thousands of years. Trust me, religion has such a foothold in politics it's not even funny. At least for America, I don't know about the religious views of other countries too well
@Pentagon1337 Eh, it's just a pretty witty one liner to those who try and say I'm depressed BECAUSE I'm an atheist. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that one :P
@romanomihai I'm not sure if this would be the hardest, but one of the more difficult aspects of being athiest comes from when you live in a religious family/enviroment. It really depends on how people react when they understand you're an athiest, it's a wild card, they are either hostile about it or "ok, that's fine".
If their the hostile type, then sh*t really hits the fan, check this on YT - "Atheist Student Threatened, Disowned by Family", this however is a very extreme reaction.
@Battleguild It is not an extreme reaction to everyone. It is what they felt to do, just as you felt not to believe you were created by God, which is considered extreme by many. If one has no religious beliefs, he can believe whatever he feels is right to do. There is no logic here, you are making yourself your own God... and yet you don't believe in God. Huge contradiction, false doctrine will get you here.
@romanomihai I was saying that particular example was extreme in the way that they went out of their way to make his life miserable, for making a justifiable action to the public school. How is that a contradiction? While wanting to make your own choices in a sense makes yourself your own "God", the God your refering to & possibly other religion's faith, is what I don't believe in. The two are not the same.
@romanomihai I agree with Battleguide. The hardest part is often dealing with people's reaction to your beliefs (or lack of). Aside from that, knowing that you'll never see your friends and family that have passed away again is also disappointing. But it gives you that much more reason to appreciate the time you have with them.
@romanomihai How so? What makes you so sure that there is a God? I'm not making myself my own God. I don't claim to have created life, and I most certainly don't expect anyone to do what I say without question. And there's no way in hell I'd have my son killed, just so I don't feel the urge to torment people for eternity anymore.
You asked what the hardest part about being an atheist was. I responded. You say, I'm wrong.
Well then why in the fuck did you ask, if you already made up your mind?
@CanadianMuffins Ohhh lol I meant to say telling your parents your gay. It was just a funny I totally forgot about. Anyways, but I respect your answer. Put it like this.. if you was my neighbor and we had goodtimes and can play sports and kick it and be good to each other, I think beliefs don't matter all the time. Nobody really know what puts people in the positions they are, God actually says it is his job to judge another soul, and not a humans.
@beatonm198 That is what they wanted to do. You wanted to stop believing in God. Maybe many feel you are extreme. Is there a really a difference, besides the fact that your personal opinion doesn't agree with their action?
@romanomihai I never believed in God, I never stopped. Also, I don't care if people think it's extreme. Popular opinion has jack and shit to do with being correct. And religion is utterly false, it's not even in dispute for people who weren't indoctrinated into it, and I can prove this by the simple fact that NOTHING you can stay can prove the existence of a God, meaning you're clinging to faith: The belief in something for which there is no evidence. My "personal opinion" is more than...(cont.)
@romanomihai (cont.) that, it's backed up by fact and evidence. And my personal objection to a God doesn't harm them, but their faith affects so many levels of my life that it's debilitating in some instances, harmful in others, and downright stupid regardless.
@dejesusluisx I kind of half agree with you. Yes you don't need cell phones and computers to be happy, but I think that modern day medicine is a branch technology that does wonders for happiness in modern society. After all, the first wealth is health
Google or wiki *happiest countries in the world*, and you'll see that they are also the least religious. So..I think the answer to the question in the title here is no: )
yeah, depression might arise out of having no hope. gods way might keep your spirit busy with that demon bitch called hope. but sometimes you have to trust in the universe- power of mind- is strong. with dogma one is constrained or limited even confined in thoughts
@dejesusluisx I think what you define technology as is different from what technology is actually defined as. Gas lamps an water heaters are technology... There old technology but there still technology. Same with houses, cooking and agriculture. Making bronze swords and pyramids was the height of Egyptian technology
@dejesusluisx Than you should say that and not talk about technology.
Say we don´t need electricity, cel phones and computers... that´s it.
And yes, we aren´t the top of evolution nor are we unique.
We are unique in the same sense the bluewale is unique. We aren´t the top of evolution because there are many many many other organisms much more successfull than we are, and for a much longer time.
We are only around for a short time, spiders are spread out all over the world, since millions.
@Kokainuser For a computer programmer, to write a program that can self program would be the ultimate achievement, the top of what programming can achieve. Our brain is just that, it has a self programming capacity no animal has. We are the only animals that can act contrary to our instincts (programs) that is what I call self-programming brain. I have a few videos that explain that concept.
"I don't think that being an atheist makes you smart."
Agreed - I strongly suspect it goes the other way, though.
Numerous studies have found negative correlation between religiosity and IQ. Whether one causes the other, or something else causes both, is unclear, but the correlation is there.
Christians must be depressed with life, I mean they feel comfort in believing in an afterlife greater than this life....This means that they feel uncomfortable thinking this is the only life, so you if you don't feel good about this life and need to believe in afterlife myths to cope, that means they are the depressed ones. As atheists we are happy thinking this life is the only one we have!
@theBartone9119 Why would Christians be depressed we have the hope, joy, an unconditional love, salvation, and forgiveness from a very loving God. You on the other hand are immoral and do whatever you want just to please yourself, leading to sin
Sure we will die and what we recognize as being fundementally us will disappear. But all the matter and energy that made you you will never be destroyed. It can't. It can only disperse and be reshaped into other things. So in a way you'll never dissapear, you will continue to shape and be a part of the universe for as long as the universe exists. The substance that makes up the fingers that are typing this may one day be part of several thousand different people.
Why would anyone want to live forever? Nothing in the universe lives forever. Even stars die. I'm not afraid of death, nor am I depressed about it; why should I be? I take comfort in the fact that, as a living creature, my life will eventually come to an end. I didn't exist before I was born, and I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to continue to exist when I die.
I'm an atheist. The thought of dying doesn't depress me as much as the thought of completely losing who I am and knowing that I am temporary. I'll admit that scares me at times.
Still, I can't help that I don't believe in god. It can admittedly be depressing at times, and perhaps I just haven't adjusted well, being a recent atheist and all. But I suppose I'd rather live in the real world.
@srsguynogames Understood. I'm a recent DEconvert myself. I felt that way until I came to the understanding that I would not have those fears had my parents and family not drilled them into my head. Yeah there is going to be some backlash from the dependency thing. But I'm personally over it. The fear of dying or not existing one day surely does nothing to remedy the situation. Who knows what science will cook up. That uncertainty of the future gives all the hope one needs.
@srsguynogames I went through a phase like this, too. I've only been an atheist for 2-3 years. My first year I was pretty much depressed, and started researching a bunch of stuff about spirits, ghosts, near death experiences, etc because I was trying to find some sort of evidence for an afterlife. After looking into it for awhile, I gave up, because whatever "evidence" there was, was not evidence. Now I've come to accept that there's no afterlife, and to be honest, it doesn't bother me anymore.
To zeenyuhrass: Well, so now I am retarded and I "make you sick?" Wow! That is so nice of you to come on here and extol such warm regards for a fellow human being! You DO NOT MAKE ME SICK. Quite the opposite my Dear One. God loves you and Jesus Christ loves you so very much. They DO NOT want you to spend ETERNITY IN HELL! Amen. Praise God Almighty. May the good Lord God be with you always my Dear One and may he Bless You in your daily life. I will be praying for the Holy Spirit to come to you.
studies actually show that the lower the iq the more likely it is a person is going to believe in a god. people with higher iq are more likely not to believe in a god. this was a valid study done in 2008 north america.
You can be sad about something you've never missed or experienced. I've never experienced wealth or the kind of beauty I'm partial to. Being poor all my life does make me sad and I've never been wealthy.
Depression is just another sin if you think about it. Self pity- weak-willed & miserable people just need Jesus in their life. God can help you with every sin you are having trouble with & He actually wants to help . You just need to ask. I will be praying for you all
@TheThreadoftruth While you pray, I'll research facts and scientific inquiries of the basis of evolution, the Big Bang Theory, the formation of all, and I do mean ALL matter in the universe from the death and debris of stars etc. Patronizing and being condescending is a sin since it assumes that the people you are praying for are "beneath" you.
Ray Comfort is a duche and whoever takes him seriously is a complete moron. Sorry Aunt Nettie. I'm Atheist and I am so not depressed, couldn't be further from the truth. Knowing that I know the difference between nonsense and actuality is very NOT depressing lol
After all the dust settles, we have only two choices. Either the universe brought itself into existence, or something outside the universe, an external cause brought it into existence. The problem is how something could brought itself into existence? Isn't possible, therefore the cause must be external. The only thing present was energy. The God of the Bible is described with the same attributes of energy before energy was described. The existence of God is the best explanation. Open your eyes
@dejesusluisx Its a unknown, something might be able to bring itself into existence, but we probably wont find out for a very very very long time. The universe is to large for us to know everything. We humans only know a few percent of the creatures on the Earth and the majority of our oceans remain unexplored, how the hell do you manage to think we should know how the universe began, even if it had a beginning in the first place?
@64notorious "how the hell do you manage to think we should know how the universe began" We may never know, but we can only follow the best possible explanation, and the best possible explanation to date is that a very powerful energy force created the universe, and this force is more likely conscious.
@dejesusluisx Nice how you took that one statement out of contex to make your stupid claim. Please continue to read how i said "if the universe even had a beginning...
@64notorious That doesn't change my argument. If the universe didn't had a beginning, neither did we, so we are just an illusion; welcome to the matrix...
We are certainly an illusion for now. We are made of fields ..matter isn't really "there" : em waves that our eyes cells are sensitive too is called light and it allows us , trough brain processing, to "see" things (trough electro magnetic waves reflecting on other EM fields generated inside the agglomerat of quantas that we call an "object")
Think about glass...a solid allowing light to travel trough him Matter isn't really "solid", tangible, matter is agglomerated EM fields
@chibraxial I think you got a little bit carried away there. Going back to reality, if you are going to have any sanity at all, you have to make some assumptions, and the first one is that we exists. After that you need to start constructing the universe around you. So, since the universe had a beginning and all that begins have a cause, the universe needs and un-caused cause, and only God fits that definition.
@chibraxial "then what did create god?" I wish I had a dollar for every time I've answered this childish question. Energy is eternal, so is God. God is energy, conscious energy. If you ask to a goat herder living 3,000 yrs ago to describe energy, what do you think it will come with? I say is remarkable they were able to grasp concepts as infinite, immaterial, timeless, powerful, ever present and even more remarkable that energy can produce matter, something we just discover in the 20th century.
Where are the supporting evidence? Being right, just because you guessed it, without being able to prove it is exactly like being wrong. You need to observe, analysis in order to prove it to be true. Do you understand this ?
YOU personnaly, can NOT know if something is right until you or other people verified it.
Where are the proofs, the supporting, hard, evidences ? In your head? That's a great leap for humanity there.....
@chibraxial ""in order to prove it to be true"" this is the part where atheists always get lost. Why you insist on proving things to other people? Is that an inferiority complex atheists have? I don't get it. The only proof you own to anyone is to yourself. I proved to myself what I needed to prove, that is why I made the decision to serve the Lord. No one told me, brainwash me, nor I based my decision on assumptions. I received evidence that I found satisfactory and that changed my life.
@FrozenTacoMeat Special pleading is only a fallacy when there shouldn't be anything special about the plea in theory, if there is indeed, is not a fallacy.
@dejesusluisx Wrong. Please look up the definition, you have access to the internet and making up a definition like you did is unacceptable and dishonest. Special pleading is saying, for example, everything had to have been created.....except the creator of my specific belief system. If that is your only argument, you have lost.
@FrozenTacoMeat From a philosophic standpoint, the fallacy of Special Pleading is violating a well accepted principle, namely the Principle of Relevant Difference. According to this principle, two people can be treated differently if and only if there is a relevant difference between them:Nizcor Project
In the case of energy, it is an established fact by science that it can't be created or destroyed, so special pleading in this case isn't fallacious.
@robvlob To create light, or a spark, you need two opposed energy charges, if both are of the same nature, you would had multiple universes popping out randomly out of nothing. There must be one passive energy form and one active. So they can't both be conscious. One of the sources must be conscious to explain the order in the universe. Since energy is a continuum, there must be only one divine energy source that we give many names to.
@dejesusluisx So which energies are conscience & which are passive? A. thermal B. acoustical C. nuclear D. chemical E. electrical F. magnetism G. gravity H. electromagnetism I. electrochemical J. electromagnetic radiation. K. all of the above are conscience L. none of the above are conscience. M. one of the above is conscience N. more than one of the above are conscience. O. A-J are actually one energy, is conscience & plays bingo on Sundays P. same as O but no bingo.
@robvlob There are other forms of energy unknown to science that were not listed like dark energy or the energy that makes entanglement possible or the quantum vacuum energy. Maybe we are yet to describe many other forms of energy and God is among them. By closing yourself to the possibility you're just being narrow minded.
@dejesusluisx Holding out for evidence before belief isn't narrow minded, believing something regardless if evidence was presented to the contrary is.
@dejesusluisx "If" is the key word. Theists believe without evidence & some theists admittedly would still believe regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Atheism is a lot broader than just the disbelief in the tyrannical genocidal egotistical Christian god. Nearly as broad a disbelief is the Christian disbelief of all other gods(some would say knowledge of their non existence). That's narrow minded.
@robvlob """If" is the key word."" soo... you admit you believe atheism is true but you have no evidence to prove that belief is real??? are you serious?? so you believe atheism is true out of FAITH?? This is really something...
@dejesusluisx Nope I don't belief the claims of theists there is a difference IE. theists are making a claim that some supernatural guy who is his own dad & something else is one & does magic.
Does it take any faith to disbelief there isn't a quadphibian snake that is tangible & is visible that causes all the natural phenomena & short term memory loss but moves so fast that it is impossible to see it. There are books videos & documentaries on snakes & snakes are known to exist.
@robvlob "some supernatural guy" We can prove supernatural events exists: Ho: Events before the BB were no different to natural events, they followed natural laws. H1: Events before the BB were different than natural events, they didn't followed natural law. Evidence: Basic elements H,He,Li were created during the BB. There was no matter and no universe, therefore no natural laws before BB. Conclusion, we reject Ho and accept H1.The origin of BB is supernatural. Simple scientific method
@dejesusluisx Your idiotic SOG style question is nonsensical. Atheism is a position on one question that you also answered no to with the exception of one god. Do you believe in gods?
I'll use theist logic/evidence to prove atheism
Premise 1 the bible is correct because it says its correct
Premise 2 the bible says the Christian God is the only God
conclusion no other gods exist
Other religions have similar premises & conclusions
@robvlob People throughout the ages have been confused about God and had created weird dogmas to describe Him. There's only one God, one Divine Consciousness, one conscious energy that created the universe with many names and dogmas created by men over many centuries in our desire to understand his essence. Dogmas might be real or not, but God is real, and to understand that reality you need to be in his wavelength. People can become separated from God is they worship the wrong idea.
@dejesusluisx i have a problem with you saying with absolute that "god is real" where is the tangible proof? Athiest don't say god Doesn't Exist with absolute. We say we dont know if he does or not but at this time there isnt suffiecient evidence to believe god does exists. if prooven wrong with tangible evidence not based off Ethos most if not all Athiest are willing to say there is a god. but Theist refuse to say there isnt even if we had proof that it was all made up. That is the difference
@JusBenLawyered "where is the tangible proof?" I have my proof and you can get yours if you decide to look for it.
""if prooven wrong with tangible evidence not based off Ethos most if not all Athiest are willing to say there is a god"" it would be pretty dumb not to, don't you think? The treasure everyone know is no treasure at all.
""Theist refuse to say there isnt even if we had proof that it was all made up"" where is it? why don't you show is the evidence once and for all.
@dejesusluisx Athiest do not have an agenda. we are not trying to activily convert people (most of us) we are defending our position with facts and data as well as tangible evidence to back up our claims. Athiesm is a Defense against Theist. Athiest do not gather in a building or go door to door preeching the word of Non Belief. we do not have Athiest Summer camps... (well maybe Science Camp) When we do good deeds we do it out kindness you do it because you think its a ticket to heaven.
@JusBenLawyered All atheist I know are very vocal in trying to convince everyone they are right.
""Athiest do not gather in a building or go door to door preeching the word of Non Belief"" they dont have to, they have youtube, which is 1,000 times more effective.we ""do not have Athiest Summer camps"" you have yearly conventions. "you do it because you think its a ticket to heaven" we do it for the same reasons, you won't know it until you live in grace.
Which god are you talking about, and why should I take you more serious than every other religion trying to tell me how wrong I am? Wait!!! let me guess ... an old book ... Am I right?. It's not about proving ourselves right, it's about protecting our children from the 30.000+ denominations of christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, the nordic, greek roman, sumeran mythology, etc. etc. etc.
@tdjdk ""about protecting our children from the 30.000+ denominations of christianity"" the only way to protect them is nurturing them under a Christian education.
There's only one God, one Divine Consciousness, one conscious energy that created the universe with many names and dogmas created by men over many centuries in our desire to understand His essence. Dogmas might be real or not, but God is real, and to understand that reality you need to be in tune w/ Him. Open your eyes.
@JusBenLawyered There's plenty of scientific evidence that favors the existence of a force directing the universe than it coming into existence out of randomness. Here are a few:
1.The Penrose calculations
2.Fred Hoyle calculations
3.The string theory landscape model
4.The BB model for the beginning of the universe
5.The definition of energy
6. The existence of a self programming brain
All points towards a conscious force rather than pure chance. I can expand if you like.
@dejesusluisx WE couldnt possibly begin to understand a Being that created the universe. how did he do it? did he forge things in a smiths workshop? did he weave stars into exsistence. did he will everything into place? i think it is more likely Coincedence is all our life is... and none of those are evidence of a higher force. they are theories and scientist aim to figure them out. Religious people refuse to question so they come up with the only thing they think it could be.
@JusBenLawyered God is an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't be created or destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. God matter creating ability was defined before energy's
@dejesusluisx if a religious person saw an Airplane flying for the first time with no prior knowledge of it he would think god or magic was holding the plane up. were as a scientist or Atheist would ask himself what could be holding it up. my thoery is air is holding it up... then he would test his theory. then he would experiment different ways and would come up with the same results over and over till he could conclude that the plane is flying by wind pushing the wings up not god or magic
@JusBenLawyered Science vs religion is a false dichotomy. Mendel -father of Genetics, Lemaitre -physicist proponent of the BB, Copernicus, Ockham - Occam's razor, Mercally -creator of the earthquake scale, and over 200 scientists were Catholic priests. Many believers had embrace the scientific method to understand the world around us, and yet can discern there's a transcendent spirituality in all of us that science can't explain and only the knowledge of God can satisfy.
@tdjdk HA Ha i believe in two religions with conflicting gods saying not to worship eachother so therefore they cancel themselves out and I live a happy life lol
@dejesusluisx No most of us defend our position when threaten with immense pain and torture by Theist. We arent going to let you try to belittle our logic and rational thinking with your tale of fictions
@JusBenLawyered ""belittle our logic and rational thinking"" God existence is logical and rational, I challenge you to present an argument that makes God existence illogical or irrational and that I'm not able to respond to with a logical or rational rebuttal.
@dejesusluisx Read the 1st testiment then read the second tesitment then try to do everything by those books... you can't... They contridict themselves to often and in to many ways. (redundant) God is all knowing and All seeing... except when adam (from adam and eve fairy tale) is hiding. God couldnt find him then. The bibles themselves are irrational. it is irrational to believe in something with no evidence. except that the book itself says its true.
@JusBenLawyered Many passages in the Bible are metaphors. The 6 day creation story is only believed literally by fundamentalists, the sense of time for God is not similar to ours. The world could have been created in 6 days or in 6 x10^12 days it might make a difference to us, but it doesn't to Him. How would you explain creation and evolution to a 2 yr old? Mankind was not prepared for scientific explanations in those days. There is no conflict between science and religion.
@dejesusluisx You're right, there is no conflict between them. Religion is making the claim that there is an omniscient being that, in a scientific model, doesn't NEED to be there. Not to say it can't be there, but that it doesn't need to. They are making this claim without any rational evidence or even logical proof that it does exist. So we have a model that doesn't need a god, we have no evidence for god, and no logic that needs a god, why should we insert "god" in our life?
@FlyingPicklePeople ""in a scientific model, doesn't NEED to be there"" If you will defend a scientific point of view, you must support your claims with evidence. Which model you are talking about? The standard model? Which of the dozen theories for the origin of the universe you are defending?
@FlyingPicklePeople "logical proof that it does exist" All that exist is contingent to something else. The origin of the matter in the universe needs to be explained by the matter creating abilities of a non-contingent power. This non contingent power needs to exist by it's own necessity. Energy is proven to be non-contingent. Therefore a form of energy must had created the universe. Energy has the same attributes we give God, therefore is plausible God created the universe
@FlyingPicklePeople ""So we have a model that doesn't need a god"" again need evidence, unless you want to admit is a faith claim from your cult.
""we have no evidence for god"" I have first hand, personal evidence, which is more than anyone can say for most things in their lives which are just trusted...
""no logic that needs a god"" I can give you half a dozen logical arguments for God's existence, I just gave you one, can you give me one for God's non-existence?
@dejesusluisx You sir, have just spouted off more logical fallacies in these responses than I care to respond to. Firstly, the burden of proof thing. It is not my job to prove there doesn't exist a god. You claim there is one, you have to prove it. Secondly, "All that exist is contingent to something else" is untrue. Existence is a FACT. Facts are not contingent upon observation. Facts are simply true.
@FlyingPicklePeople Contingency is used to describe something that depends on something else, that is the result of another, or influenced or brought into being by something else. All is contingent, but, logically, a first cause couldn't.
@dejesusluisx "Energy has the same attributes we give God, therefore is plausible God created the universe" if energy is god, then why not call it ENERGY? We already have a label for it, why do you feel the need to add the "God" tag to it and claim it has supernatural powers?
@dejesusluisx "I have first hand, personal evidence, which is more than anyone can say for most things in their lives which are just trusted..." Great, you have personal evidence. That can be evidence for you...personally...but why should WE be justified in believing in something that has not given everyone personal evidence?
@FlyingPicklePeople ""why should WE be justified in believing in something that has not given everyone personal evidence?"" if you do, you might be hypocrite, and that is not what God wants. What you need to do is acknowledge the possibility and honestly and sincerely open your heart and mind to the truth, seek, and God will do the rest.
@dejesusluisx "I can give you half a dozen logical arguments for God's existence," If you can give me a SINGLE argument that does not contain one of the many fallacies you have already spouted off, then please do. But as of yet, I have no logical reason to believe in your claim that a "god" exists
@FlyingPicklePeople There's plenty of scientific evidence that favors the existence of a force directing the universe than it coming into existence out of randomness. Here are a few:
1.The Penrose calculations
2.Fred Hoyle calculations
3.The string theory landscape model
4.The BB model for the beginning of the universe
5.The definition of energy
6. The existence of a self programming brain
All points towards a conscious force rather than pure chance.
@dejesusluisx I'm sorry, but existence is a statement of fact and is not contingent upon anything. The sand in the Mojave desert exists. That is a statement that can be proven through many different means, but its existence is not contingent upon that observation. And DO NOT get this confused with "proof that God doesn't need to be observed." If I had never seen the Mojave desert before and asserted it's existence, I would've been skeptical until they demonstrated its existence.
@FlyingPicklePeople You don't get it, the existence of sand is contingent to the forces of wind, water, erosion, corals and shells among others. You don't get the meaning of contingency, look it up.
@dejesusluisx I completely disagree with you on these, especially seeing how I am a proponent of the BB model for the origins of the universe, however even IF (and that's a big IF) I was to give you all of those points and say "sure, they needed a force," who's to say it needed to be conscious. Energy is no more conscious than air yet it shapes the world around it. And even if energy was "god" then it is a terrible god seeing how we can bend it to our will! Look up Hiroshima.
@FlyingPicklePeople "who's to say it needed to be conscious." Two main pieces of evidence, first the fact there was only one BB and one universe. An unconscious event would be a repetitive one, a cycle and that that is not the case. Second, there is order in the universe, order requires energy to overcome entropy.
@dejesusluisx "the fact there was only one BB and one universe. An unconscious event would be a repetitive one" That is actually not the case. The BB occured only once because of natural processes that dictate it could only have happened once. Just like people think its amazing we humans live where we do, its not really a surprise when you see it's the only way this life could've evolved.
@FlyingPicklePeople ""because of natural processes that dictate it could only have happened once."" so, please educate us and tell us what are those natural processes exactly. There was no nature then, so I doubt there where natural processes.
@dejesusluisx "order requires energy to overcome entropy" Of course its a surprise then to see that order could've have existed when all the energy and matter in the universe was contained in a single area? How is that surprising at all? And even if that was a surprise, could we say then that because the universe is always GAINING entropy, that this "conscious force" of yours is loosing it's foothold in the universe?
@FlyingPicklePeople ""this "conscious force" of yours is loosing it's foothold in the universe?"" there is no foothold to retain, the universe was created out of to follow several laws. If the universe would had been static, gravity would had made it collapse into itself.
@dejesusluisx "If the universe would had been static, gravity would had made it collapse into itself." If the universe had been static, like if it had been created by an unchanging, static being. I rest my case
@FlyingPicklePeople ""If the universe had been static, like if it had been created by an unchanging, static being. I rest my case"" There is no relationship whatsoever with the mobility of someone or it's attributes and it's ability to create, ask Stephen Hawking.
@dejesusluisx The answer is, we shouldn't until we have something that can rationally provide evidence for this god figure, and seeing as how something that is transcedent, invisible, and has no direct interaction with man that we can test for objectively, we have no reason to accept this claim ever. Conflict over
@FlyingPicklePeople ""no direct interaction with man that we can test for objectively"" try to test objectively the existence of objective moral values, or beauty, or love, or consciousness. The conflict just started, and I'm just getting warmed up...
Sir, you are the one making the claim that "GOD EXISTS" therefore, you should be the one proving your position to us. We don't have ANYTHING to prove.
Also, "brainwashing cult of atheism"? Wrong. All children are born atheists and only through religious indoctrination (aka. brainwashing) from their families do they start believing in unproven imaginary friends such as God, Jesus, Allah, Lord Vishnu, Odin, Amun, Ra, Zeus, Jupiter and Xenu, to name a few.
@foojuice101 The accepted knowledge always stands until the new knowledge is proven. Galileo had to prove the heliocentric theory vs. the geocentric dogma of the time. He didn’t said: “you are all wrong, prove the geocentric theory is right”. He got the data and presented his case. Doesn’t matter how much evidence or none the establishment has, the accepted knowledge stands and it doesn’t have to bring data forth because it's already accepted.Tthe atheists claims do need evidence.
@foojuice101 ""We aren't presenting anything"" yes they are, many claims God doesn't exists, the Bible is a fairy tale, or theists are deluded, those are claims and all claims require evidence, except of course, if you are willing to admit they are faith claims, which would make atheism a cult. ""scientists are"" really?? tell me one scientific argument that contradicts the existence of God, just one that I can't give you a logical and reasonable rebuttal for. Make my day...
One scientific argument is that for something to be considered officially existing, there has to be real, scientifically sound evidence for it. Since there is no scientifically sound evidence for a personal god that is involved in everyone's lives, then there is no real proof that personal gods exist.
Now, I can go on acknowledging your misconceptions about what atheism is but that would mean that they actually have weight, which they don't.
@foojuice101 So your silence towards my challenge means there are no scientific arguments you can use to support your claims, not even one. I can give you six from the top of my head that can support the existence of God. Now, is scientific arguments can only be used to support God's existence and not to contradict it, doesn't seems odd atheists insistence in hijacking science? Sounds to me more like a delusion than anything else. Open your eyes, you are a cult member.
Give me ONE scientifically sound argument or piece of evidence that a personal god actually exists. Don't stress your little head about it. No one has actually made one that was accepted by any credible scientific institution.
Go tell your "six arguments" to Ray Comfort. They're probably like "DURR THE BIBLE SAYS SO, DURR SATAN, DURR SCIENCE HAS NOT EXPLAINED EVERY
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jmassthekilla 5 days ago
YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon. Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day believers. The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes such nonsense. Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom.
MyDivineTruth 1 week ago 2
God allowed my ancestors Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Thus, allowing us “to be like gods, and know the difference between good and evil”. This very biblical verse, written in the first book of Genesis, conflicts with the same argument these Christians attempt to use. If we as humans are now capable of knowing good and evil LIKE THE GODS why can't we use our judgment?
MyDivineTruth 1 week ago 3
Please read verse Isaiah 45:7. “I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the lord do all these things”. The Christian God outright claims that he is indeed the source of evil. So how can he then claim to be sinless?
MyDivineTruth 1 week ago
Not all atheists are smart, but all smart people are athiests.
Inclousid 1 week ago
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fletchernibiru 2 weeks ago
i'd hate for there to be an afterlife. eternity is so, bloody long. really mind bogglingly long. fuck that
CareFreeWherever 3 weeks ago
@CareFreeWherever they better have sexy ass women in heaven that wunna fuck all day! then i'll start believing in god.
youwatch2muchtv 3 weeks ago
@youwatch2muchtv islam may just be the religion for you then my friend. although i'm not sure if 72 could last you for an eternity....
CareFreeWherever 3 weeks ago
@CareFreeWherever damn :O
youwatch2muchtv 3 weeks ago
I'm atheist and I'm probably the exact opposite of depressed.
crispy380 3 weeks ago
I don't want to live forever.. and If I have to it doesn't seem to make sense I have to die after so many years to teleport to the real place I will exist for eternity based on 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the decisions ill make in my existence
1853 trillion years later, in hell...
"I wish I wasn't born into the wrong culture back then"
dopeasfuckk 3 weeks ago
I'm not sure I'd be glad to live forever. Existence can be a bitch sometimes. If there's nothing after I die, great!
InfinityDz 1 month ago
l'm an atheist. The reason why l'm depressed is that the world is dominated by religious twats.
Pentagon1337 1 month ago 43
@Pentagon1337 That's what we in sales call "irony".
SeedsOfHatred 1 month ago
@SeedsOfHatred l don't care how it's called to be honest.
Pentagon1337 1 month ago
@Pentagon1337 See, this is what I hate about Youtube. You can't be friendly with anyone without getting snapped at. Everyone's on edge and ready for a fight like a bunch of over-excited frat boys.
Grow up, kiddo.
SeedsOfHatred 1 month ago
@SeedsOfHatred Excuse me sir, but by telling me to grow up and calling me kiddo, l believe you do not harbor nice feelings towards my presence.
l in no means tend to act like a total dick. l was in a mood where l was steaming off over something irrelevant, and l was not cooled down as of yet. My apology if l stepped on your toes or came across unfriendly in any way. l also want to note that l am 18 years old, and is considered as the adult age by law.
l hope l sound less of a douche now.
Pentagon1337 1 month ago
@Pentagon1337 "I am 18 years old, and is considered as the adult age by law"
Unfortunately, the law does not account for mental maturity. One does not cease being a child at the magical age of 18.
In fact - as though to illustrate my point - your age makes your response a bit more understandable.
Having said that, yes, your latter response was a bit less douchy than the former. Well done.
SeedsOfHatred 1 month ago
@SeedsOfHatred Thank you for the compliment.
Pentagon1337 1 month ago
@Pentagon1337 Liar.
lizzie121100 1 month ago
@lizzie121100 On what grounds are you making such an assumption? Your lack of explanation is very annoying.
Pentagon1337 4 weeks ago
@Pentagon1337 i am an atheist and have no problem with religion. well that is until IT'S CHANGING THE WAY WE LIVE. for example, look at today's date February ''2011'' we base the year on when 'our divine savoir' was born.
taylan637 3 weeks ago
@taylan637 at least its now officially 2011 of the common era (CE).. and anything before that is before the common era (BCE) instead of before christ (BC) and after death (AD). thats one small step for zeus, and one giant leap for greek mythology.
dopeasfuckk 3 weeks ago
@dopeasfuckk you tricked me, its 2012
dopeasfuckk 3 weeks ago
@taylan637 Religion already *is* changing the way we live, and has been for thousands of years. Trust me, religion has such a foothold in politics it's not even funny. At least for America, I don't know about the religious views of other countries too well
LosAngelesFresh1 3 weeks ago
@Pentagon1337 Do you mind if I use that one?
LosAngelesFresh1 3 weeks ago
@LosAngelesFresh1 Not at all. For what though?
Pentagon1337 3 weeks ago
@Pentagon1337 Eh, it's just a pretty witty one liner to those who try and say I'm depressed BECAUSE I'm an atheist. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that one :P
and your comment made me laugh
LosAngelesFresh1 3 weeks ago
@LosAngelesFresh1 Glad you liked it :P
Pentagon1337 3 weeks ago
the first time iv watched one of these where the caller isnt a raving idiot.
yautja89 1 month ago
What is the hardest part about being an athiest?
romanomihai 1 month ago
@romanomihai I'm not sure if this would be the hardest, but one of the more difficult aspects of being athiest comes from when you live in a religious family/enviroment. It really depends on how people react when they understand you're an athiest, it's a wild card, they are either hostile about it or "ok, that's fine".
If their the hostile type, then sh*t really hits the fan, check this on YT - "Atheist Student Threatened, Disowned by Family", this however is a very extreme reaction.
Battleguild 1 month ago
@Battleguild It is not an extreme reaction to everyone. It is what they felt to do, just as you felt not to believe you were created by God, which is considered extreme by many. If one has no religious beliefs, he can believe whatever he feels is right to do. There is no logic here, you are making yourself your own God... and yet you don't believe in God. Huge contradiction, false doctrine will get you here.
romanomihai 1 month ago
@romanomihai I was saying that particular example was extreme in the way that they went out of their way to make his life miserable, for making a justifiable action to the public school. How is that a contradiction? While wanting to make your own choices in a sense makes yourself your own "God", the God your refering to & possibly other religion's faith, is what I don't believe in. The two are not the same.
Battleguild 1 month ago
@romanomihai I agree with Battleguide. The hardest part is often dealing with people's reaction to your beliefs (or lack of). Aside from that, knowing that you'll never see your friends and family that have passed away again is also disappointing. But it gives you that much more reason to appreciate the time you have with them.
CanadianMuffins 1 month ago
@CanadianMuffins You are mistaken.
romanomihai 1 month ago
@romanomihai How so? What makes you so sure that there is a God? I'm not making myself my own God. I don't claim to have created life, and I most certainly don't expect anyone to do what I say without question. And there's no way in hell I'd have my son killed, just so I don't feel the urge to torment people for eternity anymore.
You asked what the hardest part about being an atheist was. I responded. You say, I'm wrong.
Well then why in the fuck did you ask, if you already made up your mind?
CanadianMuffins 1 month ago
@CanadianMuffins Ohhh lol I meant to say telling your parents your gay. It was just a funny I totally forgot about. Anyways, but I respect your answer. Put it like this.. if you was my neighbor and we had goodtimes and can play sports and kick it and be good to each other, I think beliefs don't matter all the time. Nobody really know what puts people in the positions they are, God actually says it is his job to judge another soul, and not a humans.
romanomihai 1 month ago
@romanomihai Haha, but if you're not gay then that wouldn't even be a hard part about being an atheist.
But yeah, I'd say that'd definitely be harder.
CanadianMuffins 1 month ago
@romanomihai Christians.
beatonm198 1 month ago
@beatonm198 That is what they wanted to do. You wanted to stop believing in God. Maybe many feel you are extreme. Is there a really a difference, besides the fact that your personal opinion doesn't agree with their action?
romanomihai 1 month ago
@romanomihai I never believed in God, I never stopped. Also, I don't care if people think it's extreme. Popular opinion has jack and shit to do with being correct. And religion is utterly false, it's not even in dispute for people who weren't indoctrinated into it, and I can prove this by the simple fact that NOTHING you can stay can prove the existence of a God, meaning you're clinging to faith: The belief in something for which there is no evidence. My "personal opinion" is more than...(cont.)
beatonm198 1 month ago
@romanomihai (cont.) that, it's backed up by fact and evidence. And my personal objection to a God doesn't harm them, but their faith affects so many levels of my life that it's debilitating in some instances, harmful in others, and downright stupid regardless.
beatonm198 1 month ago 9
@dejesusluisx I kind of half agree with you. Yes you don't need cell phones and computers to be happy, but I think that modern day medicine is a branch technology that does wonders for happiness in modern society. After all, the first wealth is health
ProDegiaque 1 month ago
Google or wiki *happiest countries in the world*, and you'll see that they are also the least religious. So..I think the answer to the question in the title here is no: )
winterstellar 1 month ago
Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Atheist admits the possibility of being wrong and theist will not!
mzyzer19 1 month ago
@mzyzer19 exactly. Admiting that you could possibly be wrong is called intellectual honesty.
drunkenscotsman 1 month ago
being smart makes you an atheist.
VoonNBuddies 1 month ago
yeah, depression might arise out of having no hope. gods way might keep your spirit busy with that demon bitch called hope. but sometimes you have to trust in the universe- power of mind- is strong. with dogma one is constrained or limited even confined in thoughts
2rainmalt 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx I think what you define technology as is different from what technology is actually defined as. Gas lamps an water heaters are technology... There old technology but there still technology. Same with houses, cooking and agriculture. Making bronze swords and pyramids was the height of Egyptian technology
ProDegiaque 1 month ago
@ProDegiaque When I say we don't need technology, I mean, we don't need electricity, cel phones and computers to live happily.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Than you should say that and not talk about technology.
Say we don´t need electricity, cel phones and computers... that´s it.
And yes, we aren´t the top of evolution nor are we unique.
We are unique in the same sense the bluewale is unique. We aren´t the top of evolution because there are many many many other organisms much more successfull than we are, and for a much longer time.
We are only around for a short time, spiders are spread out all over the world, since millions.
Kokainuser 1 month ago
@Kokainuser For a computer programmer, to write a program that can self program would be the ultimate achievement, the top of what programming can achieve. Our brain is just that, it has a self programming capacity no animal has. We are the only animals that can act contrary to our instincts (programs) that is what I call self-programming brain. I have a few videos that explain that concept.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
"I don't think that being an atheist makes you smart."
Agreed - I strongly suspect it goes the other way, though.
Numerous studies have found negative correlation between religiosity and IQ. Whether one causes the other, or something else causes both, is unclear, but the correlation is there.
JMUDoc 2 months ago
Religion makes me depressed.
dummychaos 2 months ago
religion is the worship of death and ignorance.
JohnCx666x 2 months ago
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@JohnCx666x But for atheists to claim to have the monopoly on reason, logic, and science is the epitome of arrogance.
elibeth121 2 months ago
Christians must be depressed with life, I mean they feel comfort in believing in an afterlife greater than this life....This means that they feel uncomfortable thinking this is the only life, so you if you don't feel good about this life and need to believe in afterlife myths to cope, that means they are the depressed ones. As atheists we are happy thinking this life is the only one we have!
theBartone9119 2 months ago
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@theBartone9119 Why would Christians be depressed we have the hope, joy, an unconditional love, salvation, and forgiveness from a very loving God. You on the other hand are immoral and do whatever you want just to please yourself, leading to sin
elibeth121 2 months ago
Sure we will die and what we recognize as being fundementally us will disappear. But all the matter and energy that made you you will never be destroyed. It can't. It can only disperse and be reshaped into other things. So in a way you'll never dissapear, you will continue to shape and be a part of the universe for as long as the universe exists. The substance that makes up the fingers that are typing this may one day be part of several thousand different people.
olelumpy 2 months ago
my balls itch!
TheMrgoku1985 2 months ago
hey maybe god put desease in your hearts because you desbelieve in him,it looks like thats what i see in the qur'an
SuperIslamisthetruth 2 months ago
@SuperIslamisthetruth Or maybe it happens to religious people just as much as the no-religious/non-islamic.
penngbwoiG 2 months ago
Why would anyone want to live forever? Nothing in the universe lives forever. Even stars die. I'm not afraid of death, nor am I depressed about it; why should I be? I take comfort in the fact that, as a living creature, my life will eventually come to an end. I didn't exist before I was born, and I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to continue to exist when I die.
manazoa 2 months ago
I'm an atheist. The thought of dying doesn't depress me as much as the thought of completely losing who I am and knowing that I am temporary. I'll admit that scares me at times.
Still, I can't help that I don't believe in god. It can admittedly be depressing at times, and perhaps I just haven't adjusted well, being a recent atheist and all. But I suppose I'd rather live in the real world.
srsguynogames 2 months ago
@srsguynogames Understood. I'm a recent DEconvert myself. I felt that way until I came to the understanding that I would not have those fears had my parents and family not drilled them into my head. Yeah there is going to be some backlash from the dependency thing. But I'm personally over it. The fear of dying or not existing one day surely does nothing to remedy the situation. Who knows what science will cook up. That uncertainty of the future gives all the hope one needs.
chuckwagon1645 2 months ago
@srsguynogames I went through a phase like this, too. I've only been an atheist for 2-3 years. My first year I was pretty much depressed, and started researching a bunch of stuff about spirits, ghosts, near death experiences, etc because I was trying to find some sort of evidence for an afterlife. After looking into it for awhile, I gave up, because whatever "evidence" there was, was not evidence. Now I've come to accept that there's no afterlife, and to be honest, it doesn't bother me anymore.
JokinJoe 2 months ago
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@srsguynogames being sinful and rejecting God isnt living in the real world
elibeth121 2 months ago
Can he take the phone out from under his pillow or pocket or whatever and hold it up to his FACE..?
Seldomsleeper 2 months ago
Yes, I am depressed, when idiots and uneducated people like him calls
TheLordHodne 2 months ago 6
To zeenyuhrass: Well, so now I am retarded and I "make you sick?" Wow! That is so nice of you to come on here and extol such warm regards for a fellow human being! You DO NOT MAKE ME SICK. Quite the opposite my Dear One. God loves you and Jesus Christ loves you so very much. They DO NOT want you to spend ETERNITY IN HELL! Amen. Praise God Almighty. May the good Lord God be with you always my Dear One and may he Bless You in your daily life. I will be praying for the Holy Spirit to come to you.
idahopaula 3 months ago
LOL MOONIES THAT IS A FUCKING AWESOME NAME!
MaNdZiEy 3 months ago
studies actually show that the lower the iq the more likely it is a person is going to believe in a god. people with higher iq are more likely not to believe in a god. this was a valid study done in 2008 north america.
michiman57 3 months ago
I'm running out of atheist experience videos to watch...
nickolambert 3 months ago 10
You can be sad about something you've never missed or experienced. I've never experienced wealth or the kind of beauty I'm partial to. Being poor all my life does make me sad and I've never been wealthy.
giaofnature 3 months ago
Depression is just another sin if you think about it. Self pity- weak-willed & miserable people just need Jesus in their life. God can help you with every sin you are having trouble with & He actually wants to help . You just need to ask. I will be praying for you all
TheThreadoftruth 3 months ago
@TheThreadoftruth While you pray, I'll research facts and scientific inquiries of the basis of evolution, the Big Bang Theory, the formation of all, and I do mean ALL matter in the universe from the death and debris of stars etc. Patronizing and being condescending is a sin since it assumes that the people you are praying for are "beneath" you.
lolimauser 3 months ago
@lolimauser No I pray for all Mankind. All of Man are sinners. Even you know that you are a sinner .
TheThreadoftruth 3 months ago
@TheThreadoftruth i loled. As WaltonSauce said, i may be stupid, but not stupid enough to pray to a none existent being.
imdrumzer 3 months ago
please i hope they dont write a book people want believe it either read near death experiences it may help you find God
angelawright70 3 months ago
Who said that!? "Ray Comfort" Owww ok...
sangsomlipo 3 months ago
Ray Comfort is a duche and whoever takes him seriously is a complete moron. Sorry Aunt Nettie. I'm Atheist and I am so not depressed, couldn't be further from the truth. Knowing that I know the difference between nonsense and actuality is very NOT depressing lol
83redrose83 3 months ago
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After all the dust settles, we have only two choices. Either the universe brought itself into existence, or something outside the universe, an external cause brought it into existence. The problem is how something could brought itself into existence? Isn't possible, therefore the cause must be external. The only thing present was energy. The God of the Bible is described with the same attributes of energy before energy was described. The existence of God is the best explanation. Open your eyes
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx Its a unknown, something might be able to bring itself into existence, but we probably wont find out for a very very very long time. The universe is to large for us to know everything. We humans only know a few percent of the creatures on the Earth and the majority of our oceans remain unexplored, how the hell do you manage to think we should know how the universe began, even if it had a beginning in the first place?
64notorious 3 months ago
@64notorious "how the hell do you manage to think we should know how the universe began" We may never know, but we can only follow the best possible explanation, and the best possible explanation to date is that a very powerful energy force created the universe, and this force is more likely conscious.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx Nice how you took that one statement out of contex to make your stupid claim. Please continue to read how i said "if the universe even had a beginning...
64notorious 3 months ago
@64notorious That doesn't change my argument. If the universe didn't had a beginning, neither did we, so we are just an illusion; welcome to the matrix...
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
We are certainly an illusion for now. We are made of fields ..matter isn't really "there" : em waves that our eyes cells are sensitive too is called light and it allows us , trough brain processing, to "see" things (trough electro magnetic waves reflecting on other EM fields generated inside the agglomerat of quantas that we call an "object")
Think about glass...a solid allowing light to travel trough him Matter isn't really "solid", tangible, matter is agglomerated EM fields
chibraxial 2 months ago
@chibraxial I think you got a little bit carried away there. Going back to reality, if you are going to have any sanity at all, you have to make some assumptions, and the first one is that we exists. After that you need to start constructing the universe around you. So, since the universe had a beginning and all that begins have a cause, the universe needs and un-caused cause, and only God fits that definition.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx
"I think you got a little bit carried away there"
Nope.
"Going back to reality," your simplistic and totally ignorant view of Reality.
also, the soon to get boring question/answer : then what did create god? *falls asleep*
chibraxial 2 months ago
@chibraxial "then what did create god?" I wish I had a dollar for every time I've answered this childish question. Energy is eternal, so is God. God is energy, conscious energy. If you ask to a goat herder living 3,000 yrs ago to describe energy, what do you think it will come with? I say is remarkable they were able to grasp concepts as infinite, immaterial, timeless, powerful, ever present and even more remarkable that energy can produce matter, something we just discover in the 20th century.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
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chibraxial 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Ok. Let's assume you're right.
Where are the supporting evidence? Being right, just because you guessed it, without being able to prove it is exactly like being wrong. You need to observe, analysis in order to prove it to be true. Do you understand this ?
YOU personnaly, can NOT know if something is right until you or other people verified it.
Where are the proofs, the supporting, hard, evidences ? In your head? That's a great leap for humanity there.....
chibraxial 2 months ago
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@chibraxial ""in order to prove it to be true"" this is the part where atheists always get lost. Why you insist on proving things to other people? Is that an inferiority complex atheists have? I don't get it. The only proof you own to anyone is to yourself. I proved to myself what I needed to prove, that is why I made the decision to serve the Lord. No one told me, brainwash me, nor I based my decision on assumptions. I received evidence that I found satisfactory and that changed my life.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Special pleading. Try again.
FrozenTacoMeat 2 months ago
@FrozenTacoMeat Special pleading is only a fallacy when there shouldn't be anything special about the plea in theory, if there is indeed, is not a fallacy.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx ERROR CODE special pleading nested to deeply.
robvlob 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Wrong. Please look up the definition, you have access to the internet and making up a definition like you did is unacceptable and dishonest. Special pleading is saying, for example, everything had to have been created.....except the creator of my specific belief system. If that is your only argument, you have lost.
FrozenTacoMeat 2 months ago
@FrozenTacoMeat From a philosophic standpoint, the fallacy of Special Pleading is violating a well accepted principle, namely the Principle of Relevant Difference. According to this principle, two people can be treated differently if and only if there is a relevant difference between them:Nizcor Project
In the case of energy, it is an established fact by science that it can't be created or destroyed, so special pleading in this case isn't fallacious.
Sorry, your argument fails
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Pre-universe energy couldn't react with other energy until some omniscient being made it happen?
If only pre-universe energies had voices.
E1 Hey E2 whats up?
E2 nothing just kicking it with my bro E3. What are you up to?
E1 was thinking about how much E3 ticks me off & how I want to kick its butt, but I can't until God gives me permission to.
E1 under its breath screw it I don't need his permission E1 drop kicks E3 then follows a giant reaction OOPS UNIVERSE.
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob To create light, or a spark, you need two opposed energy charges, if both are of the same nature, you would had multiple universes popping out randomly out of nothing. There must be one passive energy form and one active. So they can't both be conscious. One of the sources must be conscious to explain the order in the universe. Since energy is a continuum, there must be only one divine energy source that we give many names to.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob There are other forms of energy unknown to science that were not listed like dark energy or the energy that makes entanglement possible or the quantum vacuum energy. Maybe we are yet to describe many other forms of energy and God is among them. By closing yourself to the possibility you're just being narrow minded.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Holding out for evidence before belief isn't narrow minded, believing something regardless if evidence was presented to the contrary is.
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob ""if evidence was presented to the contrary"" where is our evidence that atheism is true, I'll love to see it.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx "If" is the key word. Theists believe without evidence & some theists admittedly would still believe regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Atheism is a lot broader than just the disbelief in the tyrannical genocidal egotistical Christian god. Nearly as broad a disbelief is the Christian disbelief of all other gods(some would say knowledge of their non existence). That's narrow minded.
robvlob 2 months ago
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@robvlob """If" is the key word."" soo... you admit you believe atheism is true but you have no evidence to prove that belief is real??? are you serious?? so you believe atheism is true out of FAITH?? This is really something...
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Nope I don't belief the claims of theists there is a difference IE. theists are making a claim that some supernatural guy who is his own dad & something else is one & does magic.
Does it take any faith to disbelief there isn't a quadphibian snake that is tangible & is visible that causes all the natural phenomena & short term memory loss but moves so fast that it is impossible to see it. There are books videos & documentaries on snakes & snakes are known to exist.
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob "some supernatural guy" We can prove supernatural events exists: Ho: Events before the BB were no different to natural events, they followed natural laws. H1: Events before the BB were different than natural events, they didn't followed natural law. Evidence: Basic elements H,He,Li were created during the BB. There was no matter and no universe, therefore no natural laws before BB. Conclusion, we reject Ho and accept H1.The origin of BB is supernatural. Simple scientific method
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@robvlob ... and you say we are narrow minded?? at least we have the Bible, what do you have? a written napkin at least? what?
Show us your evidence that probes atheism is true or reject that evil brainwashing cult of atheism once and for all.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Your idiotic SOG style question is nonsensical. Atheism is a position on one question that you also answered no to with the exception of one god. Do you believe in gods?
I'll use theist logic/evidence to prove atheism
Premise 1 the bible is correct because it says its correct
Premise 2 the bible says the Christian God is the only God
conclusion no other gods exist
Other religions have similar premises & conclusions
therefore X god say Y doesn't exist & visa versa
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob People throughout the ages have been confused about God and had created weird dogmas to describe Him. There's only one God, one Divine Consciousness, one conscious energy that created the universe with many names and dogmas created by men over many centuries in our desire to understand his essence. Dogmas might be real or not, but God is real, and to understand that reality you need to be in his wavelength. People can become separated from God is they worship the wrong idea.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx i have a problem with you saying with absolute that "god is real" where is the tangible proof? Athiest don't say god Doesn't Exist with absolute. We say we dont know if he does or not but at this time there isnt suffiecient evidence to believe god does exists. if prooven wrong with tangible evidence not based off Ethos most if not all Athiest are willing to say there is a god. but Theist refuse to say there isnt even if we had proof that it was all made up. That is the difference
JusBenLawyered 2 months ago
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@JusBenLawyered "where is the tangible proof?" I have my proof and you can get yours if you decide to look for it.
""if prooven wrong with tangible evidence not based off Ethos most if not all Athiest are willing to say there is a god"" it would be pretty dumb not to, don't you think? The treasure everyone know is no treasure at all.
""Theist refuse to say there isnt even if we had proof that it was all made up"" where is it? why don't you show is the evidence once and for all.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Athiest do not have an agenda. we are not trying to activily convert people (most of us) we are defending our position with facts and data as well as tangible evidence to back up our claims. Athiesm is a Defense against Theist. Athiest do not gather in a building or go door to door preeching the word of Non Belief. we do not have Athiest Summer camps... (well maybe Science Camp) When we do good deeds we do it out kindness you do it because you think its a ticket to heaven.
JusBenLawyered 2 months ago
@JusBenLawyered All atheist I know are very vocal in trying to convince everyone they are right.
""Athiest do not gather in a building or go door to door preeching the word of Non Belief"" they dont have to, they have youtube, which is 1,000 times more effective.we ""do not have Athiest Summer camps"" you have yearly conventions. "you do it because you think its a ticket to heaven" we do it for the same reasons, you won't know it until you live in grace.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Which god are you talking about, and why should I take you more serious than every other religion trying to tell me how wrong I am? Wait!!! let me guess ... an old book ... Am I right?. It's not about proving ourselves right, it's about protecting our children from the 30.000+ denominations of christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, the nordic, greek roman, sumeran mythology, etc. etc. etc.
It's ALL about nobody proving their god. You dig?
Prove your god, fool!
tdjdk 2 months ago
@tdjdk ""about protecting our children from the 30.000+ denominations of christianity"" the only way to protect them is nurturing them under a Christian education.
There's only one God, one Divine Consciousness, one conscious energy that created the universe with many names and dogmas created by men over many centuries in our desire to understand His essence. Dogmas might be real or not, but God is real, and to understand that reality you need to be in tune w/ Him. Open your eyes.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Are you absolutely positive that god exsists and how do you know this? do you have proof other then personal feelings?
JusBenLawyered 2 months ago
@JusBenLawyered There's plenty of scientific evidence that favors the existence of a force directing the universe than it coming into existence out of randomness. Here are a few:
1.The Penrose calculations
2.Fred Hoyle calculations
3.The string theory landscape model
4.The BB model for the beginning of the universe
5.The definition of energy
6. The existence of a self programming brain
All points towards a conscious force rather than pure chance. I can expand if you like.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx WE couldnt possibly begin to understand a Being that created the universe. how did he do it? did he forge things in a smiths workshop? did he weave stars into exsistence. did he will everything into place? i think it is more likely Coincedence is all our life is... and none of those are evidence of a higher force. they are theories and scientist aim to figure them out. Religious people refuse to question so they come up with the only thing they think it could be.
JusBenLawyered 2 months ago
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@JusBenLawyered God is an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't be created or destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. God matter creating ability was defined before energy's
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx if a religious person saw an Airplane flying for the first time with no prior knowledge of it he would think god or magic was holding the plane up. were as a scientist or Atheist would ask himself what could be holding it up. my thoery is air is holding it up... then he would test his theory. then he would experiment different ways and would come up with the same results over and over till he could conclude that the plane is flying by wind pushing the wings up not god or magic
JusBenLawyered 2 months ago
@JusBenLawyered Science vs religion is a false dichotomy. Mendel -father of Genetics, Lemaitre -physicist proponent of the BB, Copernicus, Ockham - Occam's razor, Mercally -creator of the earthquake scale, and over 200 scientists were Catholic priests. Many believers had embrace the scientific method to understand the world around us, and yet can discern there's a transcendent spirituality in all of us that science can't explain and only the knowledge of God can satisfy.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@tdjdk HA Ha i believe in two religions with conflicting gods saying not to worship eachother so therefore they cancel themselves out and I live a happy life lol
JusBenLawyered 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx No most of us defend our position when threaten with immense pain and torture by Theist. We arent going to let you try to belittle our logic and rational thinking with your tale of fictions
JusBenLawyered 2 months ago
@JusBenLawyered ""belittle our logic and rational thinking"" God existence is logical and rational, I challenge you to present an argument that makes God existence illogical or irrational and that I'm not able to respond to with a logical or rational rebuttal.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx Read the 1st testiment then read the second tesitment then try to do everything by those books... you can't... They contridict themselves to often and in to many ways. (redundant) God is all knowing and All seeing... except when adam (from adam and eve fairy tale) is hiding. God couldnt find him then. The bibles themselves are irrational. it is irrational to believe in something with no evidence. except that the book itself says its true.
JusBenLawyered 2 months ago
@JusBenLawyered Many passages in the Bible are metaphors. The 6 day creation story is only believed literally by fundamentalists, the sense of time for God is not similar to ours. The world could have been created in 6 days or in 6 x10^12 days it might make a difference to us, but it doesn't to Him. How would you explain creation and evolution to a 2 yr old? Mankind was not prepared for scientific explanations in those days. There is no conflict between science and religion.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx You're right, there is no conflict between them. Religion is making the claim that there is an omniscient being that, in a scientific model, doesn't NEED to be there. Not to say it can't be there, but that it doesn't need to. They are making this claim without any rational evidence or even logical proof that it does exist. So we have a model that doesn't need a god, we have no evidence for god, and no logic that needs a god, why should we insert "god" in our life?
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
@FlyingPicklePeople ""in a scientific model, doesn't NEED to be there"" If you will defend a scientific point of view, you must support your claims with evidence. Which model you are talking about? The standard model? Which of the dozen theories for the origin of the universe you are defending?
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@FlyingPicklePeople "Not to say it can't be there" Why??? again evidence is required for this second claim.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@FlyingPicklePeople "logical proof that it does exist" All that exist is contingent to something else. The origin of the matter in the universe needs to be explained by the matter creating abilities of a non-contingent power. This non contingent power needs to exist by it's own necessity. Energy is proven to be non-contingent. Therefore a form of energy must had created the universe. Energy has the same attributes we give God, therefore is plausible God created the universe
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@FlyingPicklePeople ""So we have a model that doesn't need a god"" again need evidence, unless you want to admit is a faith claim from your cult.
""we have no evidence for god"" I have first hand, personal evidence, which is more than anyone can say for most things in their lives which are just trusted...
""no logic that needs a god"" I can give you half a dozen logical arguments for God's existence, I just gave you one, can you give me one for God's non-existence?
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx You sir, have just spouted off more logical fallacies in these responses than I care to respond to. Firstly, the burden of proof thing. It is not my job to prove there doesn't exist a god. You claim there is one, you have to prove it. Secondly, "All that exist is contingent to something else" is untrue. Existence is a FACT. Facts are not contingent upon observation. Facts are simply true.
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
@FlyingPicklePeople Contingency is used to describe something that depends on something else, that is the result of another, or influenced or brought into being by something else. All is contingent, but, logically, a first cause couldn't.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
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@dejesusluisx "Energy has the same attributes we give God, therefore is plausible God created the universe" if energy is god, then why not call it ENERGY? We already have a label for it, why do you feel the need to add the "God" tag to it and claim it has supernatural powers?
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx "I have first hand, personal evidence, which is more than anyone can say for most things in their lives which are just trusted..." Great, you have personal evidence. That can be evidence for you...personally...but why should WE be justified in believing in something that has not given everyone personal evidence?
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
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@FlyingPicklePeople ""why should WE be justified in believing in something that has not given everyone personal evidence?"" if you do, you might be hypocrite, and that is not what God wants. What you need to do is acknowledge the possibility and honestly and sincerely open your heart and mind to the truth, seek, and God will do the rest.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx "I can give you half a dozen logical arguments for God's existence," If you can give me a SINGLE argument that does not contain one of the many fallacies you have already spouted off, then please do. But as of yet, I have no logical reason to believe in your claim that a "god" exists
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
@FlyingPicklePeople There's plenty of scientific evidence that favors the existence of a force directing the universe than it coming into existence out of randomness. Here are a few:
1.The Penrose calculations
2.Fred Hoyle calculations
3.The string theory landscape model
4.The BB model for the beginning of the universe
5.The definition of energy
6. The existence of a self programming brain
All points towards a conscious force rather than pure chance.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx I'm sorry, but existence is a statement of fact and is not contingent upon anything. The sand in the Mojave desert exists. That is a statement that can be proven through many different means, but its existence is not contingent upon that observation. And DO NOT get this confused with "proof that God doesn't need to be observed." If I had never seen the Mojave desert before and asserted it's existence, I would've been skeptical until they demonstrated its existence.
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
@FlyingPicklePeople You don't get it, the existence of sand is contingent to the forces of wind, water, erosion, corals and shells among others. You don't get the meaning of contingency, look it up.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx I completely disagree with you on these, especially seeing how I am a proponent of the BB model for the origins of the universe, however even IF (and that's a big IF) I was to give you all of those points and say "sure, they needed a force," who's to say it needed to be conscious. Energy is no more conscious than air yet it shapes the world around it. And even if energy was "god" then it is a terrible god seeing how we can bend it to our will! Look up Hiroshima.
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
@FlyingPicklePeople "who's to say it needed to be conscious." Two main pieces of evidence, first the fact there was only one BB and one universe. An unconscious event would be a repetitive one, a cycle and that that is not the case. Second, there is order in the universe, order requires energy to overcome entropy.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx "the fact there was only one BB and one universe. An unconscious event would be a repetitive one" That is actually not the case. The BB occured only once because of natural processes that dictate it could only have happened once. Just like people think its amazing we humans live where we do, its not really a surprise when you see it's the only way this life could've evolved.
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
@FlyingPicklePeople ""because of natural processes that dictate it could only have happened once."" so, please educate us and tell us what are those natural processes exactly. There was no nature then, so I doubt there where natural processes.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx "order requires energy to overcome entropy" Of course its a surprise then to see that order could've have existed when all the energy and matter in the universe was contained in a single area? How is that surprising at all? And even if that was a surprise, could we say then that because the universe is always GAINING entropy, that this "conscious force" of yours is loosing it's foothold in the universe?
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
@FlyingPicklePeople ""this "conscious force" of yours is loosing it's foothold in the universe?"" there is no foothold to retain, the universe was created out of to follow several laws. If the universe would had been static, gravity would had made it collapse into itself.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx "If the universe would had been static, gravity would had made it collapse into itself." If the universe had been static, like if it had been created by an unchanging, static being. I rest my case
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
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@FlyingPicklePeople ""If the universe had been static, like if it had been created by an unchanging, static being. I rest my case"" There is no relationship whatsoever with the mobility of someone or it's attributes and it's ability to create, ask Stephen Hawking.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx The answer is, we shouldn't until we have something that can rationally provide evidence for this god figure, and seeing as how something that is transcedent, invisible, and has no direct interaction with man that we can test for objectively, we have no reason to accept this claim ever. Conflict over
FlyingPicklePeople 2 months ago
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@FlyingPicklePeople ""no direct interaction with man that we can test for objectively"" try to test objectively the existence of objective moral values, or beauty, or love, or consciousness. The conflict just started, and I'm just getting warmed up...
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Sir, you are the one making the claim that "GOD EXISTS" therefore, you should be the one proving your position to us. We don't have ANYTHING to prove.
Also, "brainwashing cult of atheism"? Wrong. All children are born atheists and only through religious indoctrination (aka. brainwashing) from their families do they start believing in unproven imaginary friends such as God, Jesus, Allah, Lord Vishnu, Odin, Amun, Ra, Zeus, Jupiter and Xenu, to name a few.
foojuice101 2 months ago
@foojuice101 The accepted knowledge always stands until the new knowledge is proven. Galileo had to prove the heliocentric theory vs. the geocentric dogma of the time. He didn’t said: “you are all wrong, prove the geocentric theory is right”. He got the data and presented his case. Doesn’t matter how much evidence or none the establishment has, the accepted knowledge stands and it doesn’t have to bring data forth because it's already accepted.Tthe atheists claims do need evidence.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Atheists are not presenting "research" or "new knowledge". We aren't presenting anything; scientists are. So no, we do NOT need to prove anything.
foojuice101 2 months ago
@foojuice101 ""We aren't presenting anything"" yes they are, many claims God doesn't exists, the Bible is a fairy tale, or theists are deluded, those are claims and all claims require evidence, except of course, if you are willing to admit they are faith claims, which would make atheism a cult. ""scientists are"" really?? tell me one scientific argument that contradicts the existence of God, just one that I can't give you a logical and reasonable rebuttal for. Make my day...
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx
One scientific argument is that for something to be considered officially existing, there has to be real, scientifically sound evidence for it. Since there is no scientifically sound evidence for a personal god that is involved in everyone's lives, then there is no real proof that personal gods exist.
Now, I can go on acknowledging your misconceptions about what atheism is but that would mean that they actually have weight, which they don't.
Make your own day, bigot.
foojuice101 2 months ago
@foojuice101 So your silence towards my challenge means there are no scientific arguments you can use to support your claims, not even one. I can give you six from the top of my head that can support the existence of God. Now, is scientific arguments can only be used to support God's existence and not to contradict it, doesn't seems odd atheists insistence in hijacking science? Sounds to me more like a delusion than anything else. Open your eyes, you are a cult member.
dejesusluisx 2 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Give me ONE scientifically sound argument or piece of evidence that a personal god actually exists. Don't stress your little head about it. No one has actually made one that was accepted by any credible scientific institution.
Go tell your "six arguments" to Ray Comfort. They're probably like "DURR THE BIBLE SAYS SO, DURR SATAN, DURR SCIENCE HAS NOT EXPLAINED EVERY