why don't we start blaming schools that have books that are over 10 years old? That is what I had in my school! maybe we need to look at the suppies we get to have a good education?
Take a look at what Finland is doing... they didn't mention that did they? ...About how over there they have super strong unions and respect their teachers instead of making ridiculous documentaries that bash them.
@themindtrap39 The teacher's union in NY demands that teachers only have 1 prep period per day. The Harlem Success Academy (they outperform most NYC schools with the kids from the worst NYC district) found teachers need 3 prep periods to be the most effective. How is the teachers union helping the kids by requiring 1 preparation period for teachers instead of 3?
These teachers unions are only there to favor the adults at the expense of the children.
@buckeyemike81 Where do you get your information from? Most all public school teachers in NY state teach 5 classes and have 3-4 off periods 1 duty, 1 lunch, and 2 preps. Also, have you considered that the average HSA student's parents are probably more involved and informed than the average parent? Obviously to even put their kid in the lottery says a lot about their value of education.
Maybe you should read more about the UFT to balance out your incredibly biased and uninformed views.
@thestormsedge28 Perhaps you should read about the history of the teacher's union and its purpose because you obviously have no idea or understanding of the importance of unionized labor.
The funny part is a lot of people are making comments about how teachers work so hard and have such a hard job. There are many people in this video who teach, they know what it is like. But they have not given up, they have gone the extra mile and their students succeed...
I love how, in America, we establish laws, regulations, entities, etc. to protect the good of society, & they are used more often to coddle & protect the sub-par contributors to society. Take care of a majority to help a few who actually need it.We're anti-productivity, as a nation. Heaven [god, Allah, whatever you do/don't believe in] forbid that we actually use logic. Why would we do that? That sounds progressive, & we don't like it. We're too busy being fair, as if life's supposed to be fair!
Why do they pay a PE coach the same as a Math and Science teacher where the Science teacher must set up Labs and clean up Labs and teache things Like Physics and Calculus and the PE coach teaches football and baseball...???
Wow...not one kid cussing a teacher out; no gang activity; no teen pregnancies; everyone coming to school on time, everyday, with supplies and ready to learn; parents involved in the education process; no kids needing ADHD medication; there are no issues with illegal drugs in these schools; computers in every classroom; I did not see any kids with their pants hanging off their ass; kids are neat and groomed and respectful of their teachers.
....this film FAILS to address any of these issues.
@runninglow9SS I have seen your post on every part of this documentary. It makes me sick that you fail to see the point of this film. Although it does not show these kids it does not mean that they are not there. They are showing the worst schools in the country. Maybe they did not catch the kids smoking pot out back on lunch but they are there and everyone knows it, it does not need to be shown. These schools will have every part of that and worse.
I love how everyone is so excited about the story this film tells... when it does not at all tell anywhere close to the entire story. No where have they mentioned the fact that there are many kids with disabilities affecting their education. Not to mention the fact that most teachers have their hands tied with what they are allowed to teach. Or how the federal government is not actually paying the teachers/schools. The towns are.
Doesn't paying teachers equally go against the capitalistic ideology of competition? Isn't that pretty much miniature communism? Hell, I can fein professionalism for a year or two, get my middle school teaching tenure, and be a C- teacher producing an average of C- students. And I would be paid the same as the A teacher.
@L4DWonton@L4DWonton@L4DWonton Inner-city teachers risk their lives working in the crime-ridden ghetto. They teach the children of gang-bangers, prostitutes, drug-addicts, mentally-ill people, illegal-aliens, poverty-stricken families etc.
Private school teachers get paid less because they don't have to deal with any of these inner-city issues. Private schools test students prior to registration and only accept those with high IQs. They do not accept students with learning disabilities.
@MsJanetWood The Harlem Success Academy takes a higher percentage of special education students than nearby public schools, has higher class sizes, and accepts (by lottery) the very same poor families you described. HSA excels because it lacks one thing, the teacher's union and their stupid rules. Why does the union care how many preparation periods teachers have? HSA says they need 3, the unions say 1, how does having only 1 prep period help the kids?
@bjohnson089 It's obviously more than the teachers did you know see how supportive every one of those kid's parents was? Do you think every kid gets that? Obviously if you grow up an environment that values the importance of education you're going to put in more effort. It's completely outrageous to hold a teacher exclusively responsible for the outcome of student success. There are many factors at play, statistics prove it.
@themindtrap39 I think this is a very disgusting attitude that parents of poor children don't care about the performance of their children in school. They might not have the same knowledge or resources as more affluent parents, however to say they don't care is just ridiculous.
The teachers are responsible for getting through to the kids and parents if need be. That's their job, if they are incapable of doing that, then someone else who is capable should replace them.
@buckeyemike81 This will be my last post since this communication is just going in a circle. However, I never said "poor" and I never said parents didn't care at all, please stop putting words in my mouth.
Secondly, last time I checked the job of a public school teacher is to educate children; there are other programs to teach parents how to parent. I believe you're literally looking for superman.
@themindtrap39 Harlem Success Academy calls parents to wake them up if their kids are chronically late. There are ways the schools can help the parents.
If the teachers have no impact on the education of the children and the fault lies entirely with the parents, then what in the world are we paying the teachers to do?
@buckeyemike81 I hate MsJanetWood. You'll find her on every education video on Youtube. Thank you for easily refuting her nonsense on this video, with facts.
@L4DWonton Of course it doesn't, Americans should read Communistic Manifesto, see that 90% of it has already been realized in US and stop to think before laughing from Chinese, Chinese already got rid of that idiotic system.
Here's an opinion from a college freshman looking back.
I definitely feel extremely extremely fortunate. My public school was pretty organized - before watching this documentary, I thought my public school's bureaucracy was absolute crap (which I suppose it still is).
There definitely were good teachers, the okay teachers, and the crap teachers. If you get a crap teacher, you better pray your parents can help you - otherwise, you're on your own. And that sucks.
Never mind the fact that these monkeys are absolute idiots and could be replaced by competent workers, but aren't because of a bloated system and union.
That's totally not what these guys are driving at, at all.
@GenericPlaque attacking the under paid teachers is a red herring. If you want to get in the the top graduates you have to pay good wages. It really is that simple. Where exactly do you propose to get these competent workers when there are almost NO top graduates going into teaching?
@GenericPlaque yes i agree that is one of the points the flim is making. However there is still the problem that top graduates are not going into teaching. Furthermore there is more to bad teaching than the ability of the teacher. Sometimes very intelligent, good teachers, end up being unable to teach effectively. Clearly in such circumstances sacking the teachers will provide no benefit, and fail to address the underlying problem. I'd be more wary of the hire and fire culture if i were you.
If teachers are very intelligent and good at what they do it should be obvious and, at the very least, they produce results better than those of their peers.
Yeah, sure, some environments and problems can make a learning environment impossible, but that should be taken into account. A teacher shouldn't be fired unless you've got a better one waiting in the wings to take his or her place.
Any competitive job market produces better results, I don't see why this is different.
@GenericPlaque No, a teacher (like any worker) should not be fired unless you have resonable grounds for dismissal. "Competitive job markets" lead to high unemployment and exploitation of the masses. I am not sure i would agree that is great results. There are strenght in numbers, and i am glad to see there are still some professions, in this case teaching, where the workers stick together.
Poor performances (with excepting circumstances accounted for) are reasonable grounds for dismissal, just like in any private field.
Surely you're not saying we should be less selective with the people educating our children.
Competitive job markets are not as terrible as you are making them out to be. Plenty of private sectors have unions as well, but they are kept in check.
Not so for teacher's unions, where you literally cannot be fired. What kind of idea is that?
@GenericPlaque I do not believe in private education. The main causes of bad results are poor HOD's and teachers that cannot keep control of their classes. Teachers have very limited free reign, they should be following a set syllabus which is geared towards an exam. The idea that individual teachers are at the root of the problem because they can't teach is simply false.
What you're ignoring is that the teacher has a vast amount of freedom in how they grade, how they teach, what work they assign, and how much effort they even put in to teaching in the first place.
And you seem to have been out of the loop with regards to this. Teachers do not follow a standard syllabus, they devise their own following little-enforced state standards.
When they get paid regardless, you really assume they'll keep themselves to the same standards an employer would?
What you're ignoring is that the teacher has a vast amount of freedom in how they grade, how they teach, what work they assign, and how much effort they even put in to teaching in the first place.
And you seem to have been out of the loop with regards to this. Teachers do not follow a standard syllabus, they devise their own following little-enforced state standards.
When they get paid regardless, you really assume they'll keep themselves to the same standards an employer would?
What you're ignoring is that the teacher has a vast amount of freedom in how they grade, how they teach, what work they assign, and how much effort they even put in to teaching in the first place.
And you seem to have been out of the loop with regards to this. Teachers do not follow a standard syllabus, they devise their own following little-enforced state standards. When they get paid regardless, you really assume they'll keep themselves to the same standards an employer would?
she could join the NFL she's big enough,damn!
rrrjjjmmm100 4 days ago
why don't we start blaming schools that have books that are over 10 years old? That is what I had in my school! maybe we need to look at the suppies we get to have a good education?
TheOrbital6 3 weeks ago
they blame the poor, blame the parents now its time to blame teachers and unions
TheOrbital6 3 weeks ago
You know, the captios could use a space bar and spell-check.
joot22 1 month ago
Take a look at what Finland is doing... they didn't mention that did they? ...About how over there they have super strong unions and respect their teachers instead of making ridiculous documentaries that bash them.
themindtrap39 1 month ago
@themindtrap39 The teacher's union in NY demands that teachers only have 1 prep period per day. The Harlem Success Academy (they outperform most NYC schools with the kids from the worst NYC district) found teachers need 3 prep periods to be the most effective. How is the teachers union helping the kids by requiring 1 preparation period for teachers instead of 3?
These teachers unions are only there to favor the adults at the expense of the children.
buckeyemike81 1 month ago
@buckeyemike81 Where do you get your information from? Most all public school teachers in NY state teach 5 classes and have 3-4 off periods 1 duty, 1 lunch, and 2 preps. Also, have you considered that the average HSA student's parents are probably more involved and informed than the average parent? Obviously to even put their kid in the lottery says a lot about their value of education.
Maybe you should read more about the UFT to balance out your incredibly biased and uninformed views.
themindtrap39 1 month ago
Wow, now we know who Jack Abramoff also lobbied for. Teachers unions' powers either need to be restricted or they should be dissolved entirely.
thestormsedge28 1 month ago
@thestormsedge28 Perhaps you should read about the history of the teacher's union and its purpose because you obviously have no idea or understanding of the importance of unionized labor.
themindtrap39 1 month ago
show high school kids, bigger and stronger than their teachers, interacting in a classroom, guggenheim! I want to see how discipline is enforced.
You don't want to show that? Oh... I see....
Floodlezoot 1 month ago
I want to work in the Rubber Room!
Floodlezoot 1 month ago
Show the classrooms in the tough schools, Guggenheim. Put a hidden camera inside for a year! Then let's see who's to blame.
Oh... you don't want to do that. I see...
Floodlezoot 1 month ago
The funny part is a lot of people are making comments about how teachers work so hard and have such a hard job. There are many people in this video who teach, they know what it is like. But they have not given up, they have gone the extra mile and their students succeed...
bjohnson089 1 month ago
I love how, in America, we establish laws, regulations, entities, etc. to protect the good of society, & they are used more often to coddle & protect the sub-par contributors to society. Take care of a majority to help a few who actually need it.We're anti-productivity, as a nation. Heaven [god, Allah, whatever you do/don't believe in] forbid that we actually use logic. Why would we do that? That sounds progressive, & we don't like it. We're too busy being fair, as if life's supposed to be fair!
metalfemme131313 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why do they pay a PE coach the same as a Math and Science teacher where the Science teacher must set up Labs and clean up Labs and teache things Like Physics and Calculus and the PE coach teaches football and baseball...???
cuauhtemoc14 2 months ago
Comment removed
cuauhtemoc14 2 months ago
by the way teachers lose theses grievance hearings ALL the time...the principal only has to demonstrate that they tried to help the teacher...
pahriz 2 months ago
I think unions will start giving a shit about kids when the kids start paying dues.
fightingirishman726 2 months ago
Wow...not one kid cussing a teacher out; no gang activity; no teen pregnancies; everyone coming to school on time, everyday, with supplies and ready to learn; parents involved in the education process; no kids needing ADHD medication; there are no issues with illegal drugs in these schools; computers in every classroom; I did not see any kids with their pants hanging off their ass; kids are neat and groomed and respectful of their teachers.
....this film FAILS to address any of these issues.
runninglow9SS 2 months ago
@runninglow9SS I have seen your post on every part of this documentary. It makes me sick that you fail to see the point of this film. Although it does not show these kids it does not mean that they are not there. They are showing the worst schools in the country. Maybe they did not catch the kids smoking pot out back on lunch but they are there and everyone knows it, it does not need to be shown. These schools will have every part of that and worse.
bjohnson089 1 month ago
I love how everyone is so excited about the story this film tells... when it does not at all tell anywhere close to the entire story. No where have they mentioned the fact that there are many kids with disabilities affecting their education. Not to mention the fact that most teachers have their hands tied with what they are allowed to teach. Or how the federal government is not actually paying the teachers/schools. The towns are.
musicalgal123 3 months ago
This is making me feel crappy about my education, more so! Im from East La
slimshady02ify 4 months ago 3
Doesn't paying teachers equally go against the capitalistic ideology of competition? Isn't that pretty much miniature communism? Hell, I can fein professionalism for a year or two, get my middle school teaching tenure, and be a C- teacher producing an average of C- students. And I would be paid the same as the A teacher.
The system seems to lack logic.
L4DWonton 4 months ago 27
@L4DWonton @L4DWonton @L4DWonton Inner-city teachers risk their lives working in the crime-ridden ghetto. They teach the children of gang-bangers, prostitutes, drug-addicts, mentally-ill people, illegal-aliens, poverty-stricken families etc.
Private school teachers get paid less because they don't have to deal with any of these inner-city issues. Private schools test students prior to registration and only accept those with high IQs. They do not accept students with learning disabilities.
MsJanetWood 3 months ago
@MsJanetWood The Harlem Success Academy takes a higher percentage of special education students than nearby public schools, has higher class sizes, and accepts (by lottery) the very same poor families you described. HSA excels because it lacks one thing, the teacher's union and their stupid rules. Why does the union care how many preparation periods teachers have? HSA says they need 3, the unions say 1, how does having only 1 prep period help the kids?
buckeyemike81 2 months ago
@buckeyemike81 Schools like HSA show that it is the teachers, not outside influences, that can make a student succeed!!
bjohnson089 1 month ago
@bjohnson089 It's obviously more than the teachers did you know see how supportive every one of those kid's parents was? Do you think every kid gets that? Obviously if you grow up an environment that values the importance of education you're going to put in more effort. It's completely outrageous to hold a teacher exclusively responsible for the outcome of student success. There are many factors at play, statistics prove it.
themindtrap39 1 month ago
@themindtrap39 I think this is a very disgusting attitude that parents of poor children don't care about the performance of their children in school. They might not have the same knowledge or resources as more affluent parents, however to say they don't care is just ridiculous.
The teachers are responsible for getting through to the kids and parents if need be. That's their job, if they are incapable of doing that, then someone else who is capable should replace them.
buckeyemike81 1 month ago
@buckeyemike81 This will be my last post since this communication is just going in a circle. However, I never said "poor" and I never said parents didn't care at all, please stop putting words in my mouth.
Secondly, last time I checked the job of a public school teacher is to educate children; there are other programs to teach parents how to parent. I believe you're literally looking for superman.
themindtrap39 1 month ago
@themindtrap39 Harlem Success Academy calls parents to wake them up if their kids are chronically late. There are ways the schools can help the parents.
If the teachers have no impact on the education of the children and the fault lies entirely with the parents, then what in the world are we paying the teachers to do?
buckeyemike81 1 month ago
@buckeyemike81 I hate MsJanetWood. You'll find her on every education video on Youtube. Thank you for easily refuting her nonsense on this video, with facts.
akspartan92 2 weeks ago
@L4DWonton i'm from a socialist country and my country's one of the best performers in terms of childerns' education. crazy shit right?
XIIIphobos 3 months ago 4
@L4DWonton exactly thats why the unions have to be broken up, or else what the hell's the point of competition?
UtubeJKZ 2 months ago
@L4DWonton Of course it doesn't, Americans should read Communistic Manifesto, see that 90% of it has already been realized in US and stop to think before laughing from Chinese, Chinese already got rid of that idiotic system.
mootant 5 days ago
Here's an opinion from a college freshman looking back.
I definitely feel extremely extremely fortunate. My public school was pretty organized - before watching this documentary, I thought my public school's bureaucracy was absolute crap (which I suppose it still is).
There definitely were good teachers, the okay teachers, and the crap teachers. If you get a crap teacher, you better pray your parents can help you - otherwise, you're on your own. And that sucks.
L4DWonton 4 months ago 2
He never mentions the fact that 50% of new teachers quit within 5 years!
Ironically, at 6:00, Geoffrey Canada states, " I actually know how hard it is to be a GOOD teacher.
It took me 3 years to become a DECENT teacher, BEFORE I really LEARNED my CRAFT. And then in about 5 years, I was a MASTER teacher."
MsJanetWood 5 months ago 3
Easier way to tackle it. Pay teachers good wages. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
emelianenkoo 6 months ago in playlist pl
@emelianenkoo
Never mind the fact that these monkeys are absolute idiots and could be replaced by competent workers, but aren't because of a bloated system and union.
That's totally not what these guys are driving at, at all.
GenericPlaque 5 months ago
Comment removed
emelianenkoo 5 months ago
@GenericPlaque attacking the under paid teachers is a red herring. If you want to get in the the top graduates you have to pay good wages. It really is that simple. Where exactly do you propose to get these competent workers when there are almost NO top graduates going into teaching?
emelianenkoo 5 months ago
@emelianenkoo
No, the film is arguing that tenure is idiocy and the process of replacing terrible teachers is needlessly stupid and convoluted.
It is correct. It really is that simple. At the very least get the monkeys throwing veritable shit at the students out.
GenericPlaque 5 months ago
@GenericPlaque yes i agree that is one of the points the flim is making. However there is still the problem that top graduates are not going into teaching. Furthermore there is more to bad teaching than the ability of the teacher. Sometimes very intelligent, good teachers, end up being unable to teach effectively. Clearly in such circumstances sacking the teachers will provide no benefit, and fail to address the underlying problem. I'd be more wary of the hire and fire culture if i were you.
emelianenkoo 5 months ago
@emelianenkoo
If teachers are very intelligent and good at what they do it should be obvious and, at the very least, they produce results better than those of their peers.
Yeah, sure, some environments and problems can make a learning environment impossible, but that should be taken into account. A teacher shouldn't be fired unless you've got a better one waiting in the wings to take his or her place.
Any competitive job market produces better results, I don't see why this is different.
GenericPlaque 5 months ago
@GenericPlaque No, a teacher (like any worker) should not be fired unless you have resonable grounds for dismissal. "Competitive job markets" lead to high unemployment and exploitation of the masses. I am not sure i would agree that is great results. There are strenght in numbers, and i am glad to see there are still some professions, in this case teaching, where the workers stick together.
emelianenkoo 5 months ago
@emelianenkoo
Poor performances (with excepting circumstances accounted for) are reasonable grounds for dismissal, just like in any private field.
Surely you're not saying we should be less selective with the people educating our children.
Competitive job markets are not as terrible as you are making them out to be. Plenty of private sectors have unions as well, but they are kept in check.
Not so for teacher's unions, where you literally cannot be fired. What kind of idea is that?
GenericPlaque 5 months ago
@GenericPlaque I do not believe in private education. The main causes of bad results are poor HOD's and teachers that cannot keep control of their classes. Teachers have very limited free reign, they should be following a set syllabus which is geared towards an exam. The idea that individual teachers are at the root of the problem because they can't teach is simply false.
emelianenkoo 5 months ago
@emelianenkoo
What you're ignoring is that the teacher has a vast amount of freedom in how they grade, how they teach, what work they assign, and how much effort they even put in to teaching in the first place.
And you seem to have been out of the loop with regards to this. Teachers do not follow a standard syllabus, they devise their own following little-enforced state standards.
When they get paid regardless, you really assume they'll keep themselves to the same standards an employer would?
GenericPlaque 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@emelianenkoo
What you're ignoring is that the teacher has a vast amount of freedom in how they grade, how they teach, what work they assign, and how much effort they even put in to teaching in the first place.
And you seem to have been out of the loop with regards to this. Teachers do not follow a standard syllabus, they devise their own following little-enforced state standards.
When they get paid regardless, you really assume they'll keep themselves to the same standards an employer would?
GenericPlaque 5 months ago
@emelianenkoo
What you're ignoring is that the teacher has a vast amount of freedom in how they grade, how they teach, what work they assign, and how much effort they even put in to teaching in the first place.
And you seem to have been out of the loop with regards to this. Teachers do not follow a standard syllabus, they devise their own following little-enforced state standards. When they get paid regardless, you really assume they'll keep themselves to the same standards an employer would?
GenericPlaque 5 months ago
@GenericPlaque Well that is not how it works in the UK...... Probably explains why over 60% of PhD students in th USA are foreign.
emelianenkoo 5 months ago