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From: skirmish703
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  • Steve was better than Mike and Phill like Writter and composer. If we compare technicall guitarrist, he IS one of the best GUITARRIST AND MUSICIAN OF THE WORLD.

    He know the Badens's Powell Ork and it is very proud for me, because Baden was Brazilian Classical and Popular Guitarrist. Thanks for post.

  • @grrabelo A cover is always necessary. In concealment lies a great part of our strength. Hence we must always hide ourselves under the name of another society. --Die neusten ararbeiten des Spartacus and Philo in dem Illuminaten-Orden, 1794, p: 165

    This is taken from page 491 of Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco. 'Coincidentally' Umberto Eco has written the introduction to the newly printed version of Alexandre's The Count of Monte Christo.

  • Checked out my VHS. Mike's comment goes something like this:

    "I always felt that Steve's strong-poing was as a guitarist..._strongest_ point, I think, more than as a writer. I don't know if he ever really could see it that way, in a sense, but he has a very original sound and an original way of playing."

  • @Hypnopomp

    @kostasxrysogelos

    I can't hear what MR says, but 'strange' is not correct translated – my mistake. I changed it in 'special' – as the german translator says. I suppose, Mike means Steve's Tapping-Technic.

    But anyway, Steve is a better writer than Mike and Phil.

    And he was the only who kept the Genesis-flag flying. In his solo-career he played the Genesis stuff Genesis-like. When G2 played the G1-songs, it sound to me like for them it's a chore – and for my ears a pabulum.

  • Now THIS is the point where Genesis gets unprogressive. For me the leaving of Hackett was far more important then the leaving of Gabriel. Without Hackett,no progressive Genesis.

  • I must say they were the best together, their solo careers spawned some good songs, but overall it doesn't quite get there... hmm

  • If I may state an opinion, I think Hackett's first three albums are real masterpieces. So, Hackett's songeriting was as good as his playing skills. But let us not jump to coclusions: Rutherford says Hackett's sound was original, not strange. So Steve felt the band didn't give him enough space. Fair enough tof him to leave. I really think the music of Genesis was mainly Bank's affair.

  • Seconds Out is a disgrace the way they mixed it.

  • I don't think you can say Mike is putting Steve's writing down just because he says his STRONGEST point was as a player rather than a writer. It also doesn't mean he's saying he's any better than him.

  • One more note:

    Hackett is indeed the most progressive of the bunch, over time, but don't forget that in the late '70's and into the '80's, when he was trying to establish his own identity, he didn't speak kindly of the Genesis years, at all. In interviews, Hackett used to urinate all over the band's best album, in my view, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, in particular.

    Just an additional perspective.

  • A few notes:

    Rutherford does not say that Hackett's playing is "strange"; he says it is "original". Listen to what he actually says, which you can hear after the translation ends.

    For all the Phil-bashers: Phil has been one of the more vocal members over the years in advocating a reunion of the Gabriel-Hackett era band. I doubt he'd feel that way if he were really "contemptuous" of the "prog years". He's felt defensive in the past because the fans of the old stuff criticize him; that's all.

  • Genesis began as prep school kids - Charterhouse, with incredible song writing abilities. Steve never had a chance of fitting in.

  • Phil Collins wasn't from a prep school either.

  • @CygnusRoc Yeah I know. I think Peter Gabriel and the boys would have been the "nonconformists" back in Charterhouse playing the evil guitar music.

  • Ditto on whiterobin. LWTF?

  • whiterobin I agree that you have very dull standards. blessings to you.

  • 0:40-0:45

    He really looks like Dr House, doesn't he????

  • @Pepelukeriaunapolla Steve's been around longer than Dr. House..., so it's the other way around Dr. House looks like Steve.

  • Whiterobin you have really low standards in music, god bless you !

  • Does anyone else think that Hackett looks a lot like Hugh Laurie in this?

  • I wont fight you on that one :)

  • 2:17 - Very nice photo-make me feel a bit sad, though.

    I think Steve really did feel like the "Odd man out."  A real shame.

  • @MusicStudioTV you need to go back and listen to Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, and wind and wuthering . "And then there were three " is a great piece of work but Hackett's departure was not due to a lack of talent

  • no Hackett required... get the joke... is from one of other user... stop that hackettmania , he was only another member, don t anyone remember Genesis was born without Hackett ....?

  • @MusicStudioTV

    Is your real name, by chance, "Patrick Bateman?"

  • Genesis will never be the same. The classic Genesis just died after Steve´s departure.

  • Actually there are a few little bits of this that AREN'T on the history video- like Phil's story about seeing him on the way to the studio. It would be great to see more bits they left out!

  • Just listen to his playing , his sound on stuff like firth of fifth and hear what he did for the band !great post.

  • they couldn't get behind Hacketts tunes, but he had to get behind pap and downright garbage like :more fool me ,your own special way, and mad man moon !

  • Mad Man Moon is fucking EPIC, dude.

  • I know that after Steve Hackett left, Mike Rutherford did al the solo things on Genesis records.. Hmmm.. Sure he can play, but he hasnt the touch nor the talent Steve has..

  • @ leftylucifer : I'm nevertheless a big fan of Anthony Phillips, but I think you are right, Hackett could be an excellent composer in Genesis. As soon as he left the band, Genesis became... sorry, in can't continue in English, I must continue in French (too much emotion) if someone can translate...

    Genesis est devenu un lamentable groupe de variétoche, couplet/refrain/couplet/refrai­n, plus RIEN à voir avec l'extraordinaire rock prog dont Genesis était capable !

  • - translation service :) -

    Genesis has become a pathetic pop group, verse / chorus / verse / chorus; it has nothing to do with the extraordinary prog rock which Genesis was capable of!

  • A "pathetic pop group" that sold out stadiums... easily.

  • Genesis became great in other areas.

  • Genesis did better commercially after

    Hackett leaving, however I do believe

    Genesis sounded better with Hackett

    -Marc Dono

  • You better believe it, Hackett is The Best

  • Mr. Mike Rutherford said:

    "I always was convinced Steve's strength was playing the guitar, more than songwriting. I don't know if he ever realized that. His sound and his way to play was partly very strange."

    Was Mike taking any illegal substance back then? Is Mike Rutherford a better songwriter than Steve Hackett? I don't think so!!! And what was wrong with Steve's playing? I think he influenced a lot more guitar players than Mr. Rutherford. What do you think?

  • Yea, that's it!

    Maybe Tony in his Genesis1-Era, is a better songwriter than Steve.

    But Steve is a better sonwriter than Phil, and a much much better songwriter than Mike!

    Mr.Rutherford should think about it!

    A possible Original-Genesis-Reunuion that should work right, is omly with Steve as the leader!

  • The thing about Mike Rutherford is that he can give you an awesome song, and then follow it up with a terrible one. The "Fountain of Salmacis" has great lyrics and music, and it was mostly a Mike song. And then down the road he writes "Your Own Special Way". Now I don't know what the rest of you think, but to me that is the worst song Genesis ever made. He writes "Land of Confusion" and then "Throwing It All Away". I've always loved Steve's work, on the other hand.

  • @skirmish703 exactly, gabriel and hackett are the only ones with successful careers… genesis went commercial.. *spits* disappointed in phil...

  • @leftylucifer

    Totally agree! Who are they to judge him? After the split it seemed that this kinda Genesis feeling went with him.

  • @leftylucifer Just out of curiosity, which songs did Hackett write?

  • @leftylucifer Comign from kirdford Rutherford has always been an arrogant prick, and jacked up arse Hackett is a total original and influenced many guitarist with his style.

  • @leftylucifer The problem is, this has been translated into German, and then back to English. Mike uses the words "original way of playing", or something like that.

    I still have that documentary on video....somewhere.

    But as I remember it, there weren't that many Germans involved.

    I think it would be fair to say Steve didn't blend in with the other guys as easily as Phil did. He appears to me as having been a bit of an outsider in the group, perhaps increasingly so after Peter left.

  • @leftylucifer

    He didn't said: "his sound and his way to play was partly very STRANGE but SPECIAL

  • after gabriel and hackett left genesis - it was a boring pop band

  • yeah it was, it still had some very progressive elements, like the extended synthesizer solo in 'Tonight, Tonight", but overall it was 99% pop.

  • the music about 1:12-1:25,what it is ? do you now ?

  • The fantastic guitar solo on Firth of Fifth from studio album Selling England by the pound, better lyrics with Peter Gabriel or from live album Seconds out, with better guitar sound.

    If you like this guitar do also check out Camel, for example "Ice" or "Hymn to her" Andrew Latimer is the guitarist.

  • And Then They Were Shit....(actually after two more albums)

  • They should've asked Anthony Phillips to rejoin the band.

  • PCFDD said, "They should've asked Anthony Phillips to rejoin the band."

    I thought the same thing at first. Then I realized that after the departure of Peter & Steve, the 3 lads kinda made a conscious decision to go in more of a commercial direction. It was gradual, with AND THEN THERE WERE THREE and DUKE still being somewhat progressive, but less than before. By ABACAB and beyond, the transformation into more of a pop band was complete. And I doubt if Anthony would've fit in with that.

  • I agree, he wouldn't have fitted in with the commercial Genesis. Had he rejoined they might not have become so commercial, he was apparently the leader in the original line up.

  • Yeah, that would've been great if he'd have rejoined and kept them from going so commercial. But my impression is that Phil was really asserting himself and absolutely hell bent on turning Genesis into more of a pop band, and obviously he was persuasive enough to get Tony & Mike to sign onto that. Whether or not Anthony could've prevented that, we'll never know I guess. Would've been nice though.

    I have a couple of Anthony's first solo records and they're great. He was a great guitarist.

  • I've heard some of the geese and the ghost, it's brilliant.

    Phil does a great job singing on it aswell, I guess he likes to mix it up, playing with John Martyn, Clapton and Jethro Tull aswell as being commercial.

    Would love to see a classic Genesis reunion, with Supertramp and Gentle Giant as support bands.

  • Yeah, I have that one too. Great stuff.

    Personally, I can't stand Phil anymore. I loved his Genesis stuff thru the DUKE album, but he sold out completely (particularly his solo stuff like "Easy Lover" and "Against All Odds"). It wouldn't bother me as much if he hadn't dumbed Genesis down along with him. I don't know if you've seen that superb documentary "Genesis: A History," but in it Phil speaks contemptuously of their prog period & says he's "only proud of a few things they did." Idiot.

  • I haven't seen that, but Phil was in some other documentaries like prog brittania, which was on recently and he wasn't too contemptuous of prog, although he didn't advocate it too greatly either. Apparently he played a guest spot with the musical box, I think it's on youtube, and was disappointed with his own performance. What they were playing was the earlier stuff, which he probably hadn't played in a while, so i'd imagine he still has some reverence for their more complex material.

  • "Genesis: A History" is by far the best documentary I've ever seen on them. Well, the first 2/3 of it anyway (the last part focuses on the pop period and, predictably, Phil). He was being interviewed outside in a stadium, IIRC, and used some disparaging term like "rubbish" (or a similar word) to describe their prog period. He wasn't commenting on prog music in general, just Genesis' prog period.

    Anyway, he expressed just the opposite of reverence for their more complex material. *laugh*

  • This video is from "Genesis: A History"

  • If you really know the band then you would know Tony would not be "persuaded" to do anything he didnt want to do.

  • If you really knew how rock bands work, you'd know that artists 'bend' and compromise ALL THE TIME to accommodate other band members or record company wishes. The list of artists who've said so is miles long.

    We can't read Tony's mind, so we'll never know whether he acquiesced or went along enthusiastically. But comparing his solo albums to Phil's, it's obvious that the music Tony chooses to make has always been FAR less commercial than Phil's.

  • Agree. But just in the few interviews alone I dont buy Phil was more persuasive. He had his ideas as did Tony and Mike. Considering the transformation was complete to pop band, We have Tony to thank for the 22 bars of "nothing" in Tonight Tonight Tonight that builds up to the line "You keep Tellin me". Good bit of pop that. Also Hold on My Heart ?? Phil song or a Tony song ??

  • Oh, I know what you mean. I don't think we can know, with any certainty anyway, what percentage of the early 80s commercial transformation came from a given member of the band.

    On the basis of his solo material, it stands to reason the primary force was Phil. Horrid drivel like "Easy Lover," "Separate Lives," "Sussudio" and "Against All Odds" are unmistakable examples of his complete sellout. Plus, in the "Genesis: A History" documentary, he spoke contemptuously of the band's prog period.

  • And not only did he speak comtemptuously of it, he made it clear that he much preferred their more pop material. I don't have any way of knowing how much Tony & Mike agree or disagree with that, but based on their own solo material and the fact that *most* of the really pop Genesis stuff were primarily written by Phil, it seems reasonable to assume Phil was likely pushing the commercial direction far more strongly than Tony or Mike. That's my theory, anyway. :-)

  • @Ken5244 I would have to say that "...And Then There Were Three..." and "Duke" were great albums but would consider "Duke" to be the band's final grasp at Progressive Rock. From "Abacab" on, they were all done for they were now a top 40 pop band.

  • @Stratman78

    I more or less agree. Things did get a little murky though because they DID continue to do some prog songs after DUKE -- it's just that from ~ ABACAB on, there was also a lot of pop/Top 40 material that wasn't there before and it got them more commercial attention & success. So they became known, to the masses, for the pop stuff while the more 'substantive' songs on the albums were overshadowed. Not every song from ABACAB on was pop by any means, but the hits mostly were.

  • :"-( ... In 5union we trust!!! :-)

  • voyage of the acolyte is te best Genesis album that never was

  • so we mixed him out of the rest of the album?!! how can u do that??????? god steves a legend

  • the footage of hackett playing firth of the fif th is there anymore of it and dose any one know were i can get it

  • rutherford said, was the sound that made the genesis unique, you can see in voyage of the acolyte, that the sound of hacket is very similar to the sound of many genesis compositions, so there is were you realize that hacket was an important influence in genesis classical sound, i admire tony mike and phil, but with this interview i realize that they have never appreciated the work of steve

  • i think that the figure of steve within genesis was very mysterious, in the videos that i have seen he was always sat on an amplifier and i have always thought that he was very reserved, and i dont know maybe peter gabriel gave him more chances to provide musical ideas, but with the departure of gabriel, tony, mike and phil took advantage over the musical compositions and left steve aside and i think that a real fan of genesis would realize that the "strange way of play guitar" that.....

  • I'm surprised he stayed with them for so long... What a bunch of snobs. They talk of him and us as though he was a hired hand. I wish Steve all the best.

  • at the 0:36 he look like Dr. House

  • Once upon a time lived 5 men: They were Genesis: THE BEST PROG GRP EVER.

    Then in 75 Gabriel left.

    They remained 4.

    Then Hackett left and They became a joke....

    What a Pity....

  • Comment removed

  • As far as i know, Phil,Tony and Mike didn't make any real effort to keep Steve on board.

    If Steve was really important to them, they would have tried everything to keep him in the band.They didn't. Actually they didn't bother that much.For the fans though, it was a big shock.

  • Hackett was quite insecure for a long time about his playing. He really needed to hear encouraging comments and praise from the band and others to feel confident and assured of his playing. Don't blame that on the other members. Hackett came to the band with that issue. And I'm sure that if he had wanted to come out and bow to the audience with the other members that he could have. He' was a grown man, after all.

  • Hackett is the man. I've never heard so many great guitar pieces go unheard like his. He is just another amazing musician that made early Genesis so great. He was a part of the band for probably six of their best albums musically and I'm sure that's not just a coincidence. This guy is an extremely underrated guitarist, at least here in the US. He also loves the early Genesis music he played and would say yes to a reunion in a heartbeat as long as it involved Peter. He is just a total badass.

  • He saw the writing on the wall...The foresight to see that artistic expression would fall to the wayside of what is marketable.

  • I used to own this on VHS. Is this now available on DVD?

  • fuck i wish this was in English! the quality is great!!!

  • I have a copy of that in English, I believe. This is from the documentary video "Genesis: A History". I think it's out of print now, even though I have a copy of said documentary.

  • I'd suspect the only person who'd consider leaving Genesis at this point a bad career move for Steve would be Steve's accountant.

    His solo career has had some peaks and valleys, certainly - but the same could be said for every member of the band in their solo careers. But no one from the classic Genesis line-up has created more beautiful and ambitious music than Steve. The fact that he missed out on the fame and fortune his former bandmates acquired probably isn't much of a concern.

  • bad carreer move

  • but a good musical one...

  • Poor Mike, after more than 30 years of being a Genesis fan and great admirer of the honorable Hackett-Gabriel years, I came to the conclusion ( after watching hundreds of times each and every Genesis documantary ) that he was the easiest replaceable memeber of the classic line up, always talking about ( when Steve left ) there was more room ( for what? commercial crap ? ) there were more ideas ( ideas for what? immitate the Hackett style without even getting close to Steve's composition), poor M

  • You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Sad but true.

  • I agree - but I even more when it came to the three-man era, where his innovative bass lines and 12-string work no longer would fit it with the commercial approach. In my opnion, the only two indispensable members are Tony Banks and Phil Collins (the latter though ONLY for is drumming efforts).

  • Thanks Felsner, I strongly believe that, we, all Genesis fans, old and young get very upset every time we watch these kind of documantaries, in which, these virtuosos that we've loved to listen to for many years and created together musical masterpieces don't get along, perhaps never did and never will, fucking EGOS, always forgetting about the most important thing, WE, the FANS, and they don't care because otherwise there would've been a reunion in order to please us, and make our money's worth

  • No guitarist has been close to replace Steve.. a true original.

  • I think Steve is the best peson in the group. Banks seems to have never liked Steve. Pete, Mike & Tony were upper class schoolmates & they sort of stuck together. The three come off as prats especailly Gabriel. My impression is Steve was always treated like the hired help. Cockney Phil got cut a lot of slack when he stepped in to "save" the band after Gabriel left. I give him credit for that. The post Lamb Genesis and Gabnel stuff is not very good. I have the highest admiration for Steve.

  • I saw Genesis in New York years ago with Steve still with the band right after Peter left the band. At the end of the show they all came out on stage together with arms around each other & took a bow ... Steve not included, was off to the side by himself .. seems like they snubbed him. He left the band just weeks later. One of my favorite solo works by Steve is ' A Midsummer Night's Dream''. ... a must have for all Hackett fans.

  • He also was ignored in the UK Reunion to bail Gabriel out of debt. I was always a big fan and had all the albums from before Steve left back to the beginning. Was a real fan of Banks but apparently he does not like Steve. The money is in songwriting credits & my guess is Steve was not allowed to contribute as much. See Harrison frozen by John-Paul. Steve is a great guitarist and I greatly respect him as a person which I cannot say about the rest of the group.

  • Not completely right:l Steve was in Argentina and could make it only to the encore of I know what i like..

  • Could anyone - in general - please translate a bit what the band guys are saying?

    I would be very grateful.

  • What a loss for the band.

  • Michael Rutherford really underestimates Steve's songwriting skills.I can't believe what he's saying here in this doku.Steve made incredible contributions to the band, both as a guitarist and as a songwriter!

  • Ofc you would know, you - also - have worked with Steve as a musician for 5 years and know him personally?

    I'd say leave these debates to the men themselves and just enjoy the music.

  • @Hyardacil

    So, you have to know someone personally and play with that person in order to evaluate his song-writing skills? Your logic escapes me, I suppose because there isn't any.

  • @Hypnopomp To evaluate his songwriting skills? Nah, you just need to listen to him. To think that you know about a persons contribution to a band better than other band members?

  • @Hyardacil

    Read the comment to which you were originally replying, where the person questions how Rutherford could underrate Hackett's song-writing skills. You then wrote that Rutherford knows better because he played with Hackett for five years. I replied that it is ridiculous to say that personal knowledge is necessary for that evaluation to occur. Does that clear the matter up for you?

  • There's an interview of the band out there somewhere, post-Hackett, in which Collins describes the fact that now they see "much more chicks" attending their shows. That and the fact that, Banks & Collins anyways, were already married contributed to the band's losing much of creative fire & inspirational spark. They simply were no longer hungry.

  • This all came out of Follow you. Afore then - and especialy under Gabes - the music had been a bit odd and blokey - so spotty pretentious efeete lads with no mates came to the gigs and sit in their boudours gland-in-hand a-listenin'. Then after Gabes fcuked off Follow through was released as a love song and single and all the nerdy fans brought their lasses along - thus doubling the audience and sales

  • Hackett's departure from Genesis is a sad one and had, probably, more of an impact on the band's musical direction than when Gabriel left. Genesis became a glorified pop band (albeit with occassional flashes of brilliance) and Hackett's solo career has been, on the whole, uninspiring.

  • nine nine nine...why in the german  !!!

  • see this on VH1C "GENESIS a history" in english

  • why is it the language of the father-land. What do the square-heads know about Genetlia?

  • Thanks a lot!

  • its a german documentary......

  • After PG left, Genesis still came up with two fantastic albums, in Trick and W&W. IMHO it's when Hackett left, that Genesis lost that indefinable something.

  • I would describe the loss as the 'mystical' aspect of their music. I don't know if it was just Hackett's guitar and/or his influence on the style of music, but I've shared with others the same opinion as yours.

  • Strange when it was said that the others dicouraged Hackett to go solo, they all went solo themselves a bit after! maybe they KNEW they needed him more than he needed them! anyway they were washed up after gabriel left, then hackett went...say no more

  • Man ,,, I Wish This Was In English , I Did Not Understand One Word That The Commentator Said !!!

  • I try to translate - let's go!

    Speaker:

    During the recordings of W&W, another division has been on the horizon. Steve felt restricted in his creativity in a way, that soon a crisis will be evoked.

    Steve:

    With my succcessful Solo-Album I could let off some steam. That produces a difficult situation in the band. because they viewed the whole thing as a harrasment. They put pressure on me to give up my solo-career an I say: OK, provided a part of my work will be taken over by the band.

  • The band said: Actually we don't do such things, we decide collective. My decision was very difficult. It tooks me two years to overcome my fear. Finally, I felt the band was no longer a healthy musical climate for me.

    Phil:

    I find, the way he left us was stange. I drve to the studio in London to mix 'Seconds Out'. I saw him on the steet and asked him: Can I give you a lift to the studio? He says: No, thanks - I phone you later. When I arrived in the studio, the others said:

  • too much time - you must be the lady

  • Steve left us. Later, he phoned and said: I quit the band. I said: OK, see you then!

    Tony:

    At that time, we've been accustomed to that. It was strange, he just didn't appear one day. So we mixed him out of the rest of the album.

    For me, he left unexpected, 'cause for me, W&W was one of his best writing contribution he ever did for us.

    Already from the beginning I felt he would't stay very long and we only would mark an episode in his career.

  • Mike:

    I always was convinced, Steve's strength was playing the guitar, more than songwriting. I don't know if he ever realized that. His sound and his was to play was partly very strange.

    me: uff

  • HeyNow!!! Thank You For Posting A Translation In English For All Of Us YouTubers. This Is A Great Video & Once Again , Thank You !!! From:RickyTomato ( AKA:Richard )

  • That part hurt me. I'm sure it would have hurt Steve had he heard it. I would have liked Mike giving us examples of Steve's strangeness.

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