I Believe This Was A Video Clip Of CBS News' Face The Nation With Bob Schieffer's Report On Lindsey Graham: Reform "D.O.A." In Senate, Public Option "A Disaster" On Sunday Morning, November 8, 2009.
kauboy9816 wants you to believe that you can go to the store and BUY ANYTHING YOU WANT ON THE CREDIT CARD and never pay for it. Like the federal government who can deficit spend. We'll just raise the borrowing limit, like Congress just did, and assume more debt load. Of course that has REAL IMPLICATIONS for Americans as states and the govt now have to underfund or cut programs altogether, but our bozo-the-clown kauboy9816 doesn't want you to think about that. Morons like him live in dreamworld.
Lastly, kauboy9816 reminds us of what happens when you have meth-addicts in charge of our capital investing. His insane idea of how the value of the dollar has an influence over the mega-BORROWING-and-spending under Bush is meaningless. Tell me, moron, how the value of the dollar can make up for the $10 trillion lost under Bush? That is, the Natl Debt, Deficit, TARP, bank and business failures, loss of home equity, and losses in the Stock Market. Not even including 2 failed, ongoing wars to fix.
ALL Our industrial peers have health ins., with one thing in common: basic ins. is provided on a NON-PROFIT basis, with low or NO co-pays, @ low monthly cost -less than what you pay now for a good plan!
PLEASE Google your Senator & Rep and email them. Tell them we want what our peers have, health ins at reasonable cost, on a NON-PROFIT basis! NO MORE GIVEAWAYS to Big Pharma and INS COMPANIES. Pls write today!
In the 50's & 60's we had 90% marginal tax rate. Didn't we have a lot of millionaires back then? Was America under the tyranny of Communism back then?
When a single earner could raise a family and pay for their kids education? Is that possible today? And if you think 1% of population going from owning 20% of wealth in 60's to 36% now is fine, then you have no problem with them owning 60% in a decade? 80%? 90%? Oh heck let them have 100% or else we're "greedy lazy socialist bastards", right?
As for your crap that we need to make nice with the super-rich or they'll leave, first of all, would you accept a similar blackmail from Latinos that either you allow more illegals in or we're not gonna vote for your party? United Arab Emirates has 0% tax rate, why don't they all move there then? B/C nowhere else can they find such a combination of peace, infrastructure, rule of law and huge pool of middle-class consumers, and also get bozos like you cheering them "have more, you earned it"
Look at the top 1% controlling around 20% of the wealth in 60s to around 35% today. Look at the CEO/Worker ratio going from 40:1 in 60s to 450:1 today. At this rate, where will it be in 40 yrs? 4,000:1? 4,000,000:1? Is such a huge gap b/w rich & poor healthy for a democracy? A select few have all the money & power buying & bribing their way up as they do today by spending $1million a day to lobby & bribe congress to kill health reform? Wont democracy & power of your vote be just a farce then?
Let's say the fat cats have 36% of the money. They pay 40% of the taxes that fund the government that you, the lowly socialist, are suckling on the teet of.
Lets say, you decide that their wealth is too much for them. They should be forced to "spread it around".
In response to this, the fat cats decide to leave the country.
What do you do now?
How do you support your government entitlements now?
Inevitably, you all die because you're greedy lazy bastards.
How much money do you make it? A quarter million a year? 5 million a year? 25? Because I'm guessing it's around 50k a year.
In which case, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND ENJOY YOUR FREE HEALTHCARE. God damn, what the fuck is up with you poor retards defending the exceedingly wealthy? Fucking morons, the lot of you.
do you find it free to drive on a highway? free to call the police in an emergency? free to have a phone line connected to your house? free have the fire department put out your burning house?
that sort of free. If you make under a quarter million dollars a year, shut the fuck up. It is free to you.
Every single service you just mentioned is paid for right out of my pocket.
Lets look at the business owner who *does* make a quarter million.
When his taxes go up, or his expenses goes up due to this health care bill, it's going to affect his employees. They will either suffer a pay cut or get laid off.
i believe the proposed tax increase on those who make over a quarter million was around 1.5%
and that would only be on his take home pay. Would not apply to money that would be reinvested in his business. So if that guy making $250,000 in profit a year... cant live off of $245,000 in profit a year.... your are completely correct... he will have to impose sweeping layoffs. Keep in mind this has nothing to do with the business... this is the money he deposits in his personal bank account.
I don't understand how people think. It's HIS $5000!! What if I walked up to someone & grabbed a $20 out of their hand and said, "Excuse me, I need money for my co-pay, this is mine. Thank you".
Not to mention, businesses themselves will be taxed extra
The top 50% wage-earners, already pay 97% of the nation's taxes. When will it be enough? What happens when the h/c bill ends up costing more like EVERY OTHER Govt program has? Will people then want 80% from the "rich"?
before reagan the rich paid 70% in taxes, and amazingly we werent communists. He reduced it to 28% That was when the middle class stopped growing... and only the rich prospered from then on.
nobody is stealing anything from anybody. Rich reap the rewards of our economic system, thus they should have to pay most of the maintenance fees.
what the hell do you think the constitution is? its a list of principles to suit their liking.
I came from a very rich family, and i hate my family for it. I did nothing to deserve what i have... probably 1000 people who are smarter than me and better than me that could do something amazing if they had the money i grew up with.
rule of law that keeps us from harming each other is socialist.
seems like conservatives love the laws that protect them, because whats to stop a crazy liberal from pillaging you. But hate any other law that doesnt suit their needs.
If you wanna be anti government, dont only approve the laws that protect you.
if anyone comes to me with a poor argument, yes i may argue the otherside. I dont care if you are a liberal, a conservative, a communist, or an anarchist... If i see an argument that isnt solid i will attack it. I do want a public option.... but im pretty damn conservative on every other subject.
im talking about adding to the debt compared to GDP which is the only measure that matters and thus the value of the dollar is meaningless. ie I make $100 a year and i spend $120 a year. The value of the dollar doesnt make a difference. You are spending more than you make.
And Reagen and both bushes were huge at spending more than we earned... clinton and carter actually lowered our comparative debt.
Republicans are the ones that ballooned our debt, not democrats.
i dont know what you mean by money in our pocket... you mean our gold reserves at fort knox or something? I dont think we have invested our money in gold reserves in god knows how long... waaaay before reagan. The US government doesnt have "money in its pocket"
And yes, Obama will have a massive debt. .. but it has nothing to do with him. Tax cuts are what skyrocketed our debt, democrats have actually been the ones that typically lower it.
If you can't pay your bills because you can't find a job & your unemployment has run out as well as your savings & credit (if you have any to begin with), then what? Starve? How can you say that the loss of income isn't what causes debt?
I have to disagree with you on that point. It DOES cause debt, even if you're careful. By the math, you're right. But in practice, you're off base with that kind of thinking, IMO. The value wouldn't matter @ that point. Economics is theoretical. Reality isn't.
kauboy9816 is a buffoon. He says that the SKY IS NOT BLUE. And he's talkin' a mile a minute to convince you of that. OF COURSE TAX CUTS UNDER George W. Bush CREATED DEBT. Real debt. It wasn't offset by revenue cuts or tax increases. Bush simply BORROWED-and-BORROWED-and-spent, doubling the Natl Debt in 8 yrs to $12 trillion dollars! NOTpaying for his 2, failed, ongoing wars, and cutting revenues to the states. A real moron when it comes to basic economics 101. Like a Las Vegas gambler, clown.
Ah yeah, the typical crap that you rightwing derivatives have been spoon-fed, that the WallStreet execs who're going to get $10+ Billion in bonuses this year "have earned it" & the rest of us asking why such a disparity b/w their acts & pay, why they get to screw up the entire global economy & yet get golden parachutes, why our system makes us hostage to these too big to fail corps that unless bailed out would put millions out of work, are "greedy lazy bastards". Yeah my friend, you have a brain
The BlackWater contractor who does the exact job a marine does but gets 3x more from our GOV has "earned it", but the soldier who asks why according to you is a "greedy lazy bastard"
The AIG executives who sold subprime ins without having enough cash to cover an eventual claim causing a domino effect in bank collapses getting 100s of millions of $ in bonuses have "earned it", but a commercial airline pilot earning $60k having to work 2nd & 3rd shift to make ends meet is a "greedy lazy bastard"
DOA thank God! DOA DOA DOA My new 3 favorite letters :D That Reed is so lost, he knows they don't even have 48 votes lol let alone the 60 they need. won't ever happen and especially in 2010 with elections coming.
Health Care reform is a JOKE! There are ~30 million people give or take that currently have 0 healthcare which are trying to be covered by this bill. Of those 30 million 15 million refuse to carry insurance, 13 million are illegal aliens which have No right for healthcare insurance leaving 2 million that have fallen in the gap. I think 2million is an easier number to work with than the Bullshit numbers Congress is trying to force down our throats... Want a revolt? Pass your fucking bill!
NO ONE gives a fuck about Morgages and wat ever else you dumb asses are babbling about..this post is about Healthcare reform..Take that BS somewhere else Please..Fuck off
These guys just make up number of who wants this and how much it will cost. It is all lies and is set up to take over private healthcare and leave the people with NO CHOICE NO COMPETITION NO RIGHTS.
They want Big Government take over of our lives. WE WANT FREEDOM.
1. Yes, according to Constitutional law, all drugs should be legalized unless the states restrict them.(see 10th Amendment)
(BTW, welcome to the view of the current AG Eric Holder)
2. The founders believed in the person's right to bear arms. It was commonly agreed that any "arms" that could be carried by the individual should be legal to carry in defense of oneself.
"commonly agreed" yea thats some fucking scholarly description there. So then the only requirement that's "commonly agreed" is being able to carry it? Well, I guess that means I have a constitutional right to a dirty bomb. or anthrax. or hollow point bullets
The under-30 crowd that clamored for Barack Obama last year needs to brace for a change they wont believe in: The return of income tax bracket creep, according to The Wall Street Journals editorial page.
Buried in Nancy Pelosi's health-care bill is a provision that will partially repeal tax indexing for inflation, meaning that as their earnings rise over a lifetime these youngsters can look forward to paying higher rates even if their income gains aren't real.
The younger kids will have to start paying for Pelousy's H/C crap when they get a job, if they can get one. They'll be working for next to nothing. As they get into their 20's, they'll be taxed to the max and still be slaves of the communist government in the USSA. Lib/dums have no idea what's being done to them.
Let's do this id a very democratic way. Those who are in favor of the public option will get it and they will get the same services that the 37 countries ahead of the US in health care have.
Those who oppose the public option, sign a letter in which they and their families give up on any public service (Medicare, medicaid, social security transportation, etc.). They will work 3-4 jobs to pay their skyrocketing premiums and they will put grandma to work because she needs to give up on medicare
A piece of legisration this big takes years of dabate you BOOB, "on the table since June" what do you think this is, a vote on what colors the football team should wear, just how ignorant are you ?
LOL.... You're right, and the Obama koolaid-drinkers don't know anything about the bill. They continue to have the attitude that "Obama promised us change, so this bill must be good!" They're such TOOLS
I just wish I could vote 25 thumbs up on JCGrantatAC answer, thank you for setting the IDIOTS straight on ideology and the military, you and I both know their probably UC Berkely grads/students because there's no way they ever spent a day in the military.
It's scary. It took HOURS of debate in the House, and we even had to sacrifice and support an anti-choice amendment just to get the bill this far. It's crap like this that makes me criticize the fact that we have two houses... really reflects the paranoia and distrust people had back when this country was being developed.
I hope to God this thing passes, but Lieberman certainly doesn't help. It's embarrassing to have him as one of my senators... can't wait to see him voted him out in 2012.
It took HOURS of debate... yes, not NEARLY enough. The bill is monstrous and was rushed through to prevent people from making rationale decisions.
There's a reason it's suppose to be hard to grow the government, and it's the reason we have the old surviving government from the time of its founding.
The only reasonwhy they want to pass this in it's form is for power. Controll the peoples healhcare and they will control every aspect of your life. Down with the liberals and up with the Americans. We like our liberties thank you. They are mine not yours. You keep forgetting that. I just can't believe people are believing all this reterick Obama and company are spreading. PLEASE. It's like selling your healthcare to the devil. NO thanks. I'll keep my fredoms thank you. KMA
?? Are you serious? you are letting fear take you entirely.. The Devil? for real? you need to unplug your tv asap.. need to think a little bit more..this is another option, not the only option.. man, this county is going down because of ppl like you...
This will not pass. It's America, though your congessmen may have forgotten that they will be reminded in 2010 and 2012 thank god. They have no jurisdiction to tell me how to raise my kids etc. this is the biggest attack on freedom in years. 20% of liberals are trying to force Millions of Americans to giving the power to them over your individual rights. NOt going to happen. Shame on those relying on their goverment and who have to be spoon fed and told what to do and how to act. 2010 2012 yes!
KSP0520, "this is the biggest attack on freedom in years", really?
Bigger than W's authorizing torture, suspending constitutional right "habeas corpus" (sorry I know this is too complex a word for you Glenn Beck crowd), warrantless wiretapping?
This is a freaking OPTION, you don't like it, be my guest, go get screwed by the ins industry that doesn't insure "raped women" b/c of their "pre-existing condition"
Health reform was debated at length in last election ... and people voted for it
you anti-American, Left-wing pieces of shit with community college educations and a ghetto constituency just got your asses handed to you in NJ and VA and you seek solace in defeating a marginal, 3rd-party candidate by 3 percentage points in NY.
Adding to your pitiable existence, you worship some burnt match who has never been anything more than a 3rd year Junior Associate lawyer and adjunct lecturer.
IN THE MEANTIME....we just got 2 MORE NATIONAL votes for Obama's agenda. One of which had been republican for 100 years! You won 2 LOCAL elections (yawn) and Virginia traditionally has gone GOP anyway. So....keep polishing that turd!
I thought the Left was supposed to be "elitist" according to you fools. Now we're all "ghetto" huh?
Harvard ghetto I suppose?
the GOP can't GET any more anti-American than not caring if thousands of Americans are dying each year from no healthcare!
with elections where 6 million (x 2) people vote and not some marginal congressional election that was a chaotic anomalies. Keep whistling past the graveyard, loser. It sounds like you have as much professional experience as the classless President. Each day it becomes more clear that he was raised by trash--he's inappropriate daily. It sounds like you may have been conceived on a pool table at 3 a.m. too.
Harvard? Big deal. I graduated summa cum laude from an Ivy League school. It qualifies you for your first day of work and that's it. You Liberal morons never get beyond the classroom--that why you're unqualified to run anything. As for the Affirmative Action President, he was coddled by Left-wing extremist garbage his whole life. The monkey can't even speak without his teleprompter. He probably makes love to it. Lord knows he isn't making love to his wife--she's a beast..
In case you missed it, your largest constituency comes from the ghetto. The other half is made up of poverty-stricken college professors, newspaper reporters and loser union members performing jobs better left to chimps.
Your arguments are predictable and childish. You're obviously living in a fantasy world, and I really doubt you have a high school diploma, much less a college degree like you claim. Fucking idiot.
You want to "buy and sell" me? Hmmmmmm..... I think I have a good idea what your "occupation" is. Which corner do you work on, and how many "employees" do you have?
There is no way in hell that ANYONE believes any of your supposed educational boasts. It's obvious by your posts that you barely graduated high school.
It's also obvious that you are currently UNEMPLOYED.
What is the leading case under the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution? Upon which legal theory was it decided? How is it material to the current healh care debate? Anyone with even a modicum of education could answer the question in 20 seconds.
Ladies and gentlemen, wait for crickets to start chirping.
Oh wow, are you a pompous, arrogant asshole or what!? Who the fuck do you think you are putting down the common man? You don't respect college professors or union members because they don't make much for a living? In your eyes, that makes them losers? Damn, I wish people like you had more humility. You're absolutely disgusting!
"the [other party] can't GET any more anti-American than not caring if thousands of Americans are dying each year from no healthcare! "
So you define American as forcing your cares on others through force and criminalization? You'd like to take freedoms away from people for not caring?
The problem isn't caring, it's stealing. The government is stealing both personal property and personal rights, as it has no authority take either from me. Go help in a rescue mission if you care so much.
I'm not defining WHAT is American...that's a GOP game.
But if you don't CARE if thousands of your fellow Americans are DYING every year for lack of healthcare, then you are, BY DEFINITION, ANTI-AMERICAN.
You have complete freedom to not enroll in any public program. I hope you enjoy your "freedom" and go broke paying for cancer treatments when your insurance dumps you.
You are the cliche rightwinger: self-centered, angry, bigoted, uneducated, loud, stupid, ASSHOLE.
I'm not a GOP member; I'm independent. Bush was no friend of the Republic. Neither is Obama.
You claim to care, but what you want is to make other people responsible for your care. I'm glad to see you care so much after that one comment you wish cancer on me, certainly the model of liberal compassion, huh?
Bush and the GOP cared about people suffering in Iraq, so we went to war. Healthcare is your war. Neither, is in the government's authority no matter how hard you care.
"Bush and the GOP cared about people suffering in Iraq, so we went to war. Healthcare is your war."
WHAT THE FUCK?!!! You seriously think that is why we went to war in Iraq? Oh my God you are SERIOUSLY fucking delusional! If there was anyone out there who didn't already think you're insane....you've disqualified anything else spewing from your mouth!
Healthcare is a "war"? THAT is some SERIOUSLY fucked up logic. No point in talking to someone THAT delusional.
"WHAT THE FUCK?!!! You seriously think that is why we went to war in Iraq?"
No, of course I don't, but that is what a lot of people said, are you seriously so disconnected and hold your views so elevated that you never listen? People are delusional, you're right about that. You're delusional to think your righteous indignation justifies such immature, unlawful trampling of others rights just because you "care" in the same way the people you label un-American do so with their cares. Wake up.
What "rights" of yours are being violated? Other than the right to be a completely delusional conspiracy-theory nutcase. Your "concern" about imaginary "threats" to "rights" is just a smokescreen for your irrational fear and hatred.
The fact that you put "care" in quotes speaks volumes. For YOU it must be an "act" for someone to actually care what happens to their fellow Americans.
Nevermind. You're not worth wasting anymore time on...fuck off
The fact you put "rights" in quotes speaks volumes. I put "care" in quotes because you obviously don't care about my well-being based on your past numerous inflammatory comments.
This healthcare bill forces citizens to buy a service which is a luxery not a right, and it robs from the rich to feed the poor -- thus making everyone poor and the government all powerful.
I am sure beyond any doubt I do more to help needy Americans than you ever will, so don't play this I-just-care nonsense on me.
You're right, I DON'T care about you because YOU don't give a shit about others.
You will not be forced to sign up for ANYTHING...and I hope you that you don't choose a public option. I hope that you get cancer, your insurance company dumps you, and that you go bankrupt trying to pay your medical bills.
Then I hope that you will put your head a out of your ass...just before you slowly DIE.
Because THEN you will prove to ALL of us how "free" you are.
"But if you don't CARE if thousands of your fellow Americans are DYING every year for lack of healthcare, then you are, BY DEFINITION, ANTI-AMERICAN."
Who said I don't care? I just don't justify illegal, unconstitutional use of force and mob-like bullying to make others do things for me.
I bet you're a teabagger. Like most teabaggers, you would easily fail a citizenship test, I'm sure. Two teabaggers last week were on here trying to convince me that "the Declaration of Independence IS the preamble to the Constitution! Derf!" I doubt you know any better, what with the degree you got online and all.
The "Declaration of Independence" is a preamble--small p---to the U.S. Constitution, idiot.
Now, the androgynous, hermaphrodite Left-wing shill, Rachel Maddow, didn't even know that the U.S. Constitution had a Preamble--capital P. And, that birkenstock-wearing dyke is supposed to be a Rhodes Scholar and leader among you Left-wing scum. She's a disgrace to Stanford and Oxford.
And, you're a disgrace to your local community college.
Don't even try to lecture me about history, high school dropout. I know a hell of a lot more than you. And like everything else you babble about nonsensically, you know absolutely nothing about me. On the other hand, I'd recognize someone like you immediately; you're not qualified to mop shit off the floor of my office bathroom.
JC, pull your retarded head out of your ass, get out of your parents' basement, get your GED and get a job. I'm sick of reading your dumbass comments. Fucking stupid kid. Don't reply to this. I'm signing out. Unlike yourself, I have a life. Invesco Field, here I come!
"It's just like when you cowards fail to enlist and actually fight for your country. "
Right on, brother. Real men like Dick Cheeny, Tom Tancredo, Lindsey Graham and George Bush, who all fought for our country, Oh wait. No they all got out of duty when it was their time to serve.
It was Democrat John Kerry and Congressman John Murtha who SIGNED UP TO FIGHT in Vietnam.
Graham is in an identity crisis! It is easier to do nothing than something. You don't have to defend your inactions and that is why their party is tanking. Cowards come to mind!
Mixman....not to mention this bill is unconstitutional. The federal government doesn't have the Constitutional authority to force every American citizen to buy a health insurance plan. It simply doesn' t have the Constitutional backing to mandate such a thing.
You Are 100% Correct! Unfortunately the democrats have either forgotten that fact or are simply ignoring it. There is no doubt they would completely destroy the Constitution if they could. The democrats have always been the evil side, if you will. They started the KKK, fought to keep slavery, opposed the first blacks in government and so much more evil to speak of. They have a plan to make America a completely democratic state and If that ever happened we would all be screwed, including dems.
Example: they are offering an "opt out option," for states, yet even if the state opts out, they still have to pay for it anyway. Once again, the democrats thinking Americans are stupid and trying to take full advantage of us all. They rely on the ignorance of their followers and encourage them to come on sites like YouTube and spread their propaganda. The sad thing is, these people who are on here fighting for HC could pay for their own with what they are spending to be on here complaining.
You are correct, giving the states a right to opt out means nothing.....As a matter of fact the States don't need permission from the feds to "opt out", the 10th amendment gives the States that right. Just look at what Arizona is doing--Arizona's Health Care Freedom Act, let's citizens opt out if the wish to. That's the 10th amendment in action today.
The opt out is all well and good, until you get to the harsh reality that the people of those "opt out' states are still paying for the services that others are getting.
How can we be expected to subsidize a program that we aren't using ourselves?
I don't know how the whole opt out hand will play out, but I think it will end in court, and who knows which way it could go.
What, back up democrat, how in the hell is our being taxed to death going to improve the economy? The democrats had the chance to improve the economy and blew the hell out of it. They bull shitted us into spending more money and they are the only ones getting rich, nothing has been fixed. They printed all of the money but only used 15% they can show. My God people, can you not see the complete raping of us all? The democrats are destroying this great nation! They have an agenda thats against us!
boooo hoooo if the insurence companies can't compete !!that doesn't matter one bit !! you know what does matter though!? What matters is that if someone is sick they can get medical treatment.. And the doctors dont have to worry about wondering if someone has the propper type of coverage.. All that the doctors should be thinking about is what would be the best treatment possible to make the patient well..
Lindsey Graham represents no one but Lindsey Graham. There is no constituency for him. He will be drummed out of the corps in South Carolina. He is wrong about as often as he is right on most issues. He is an opportunistic mouthpiece for whatever the topic of the day is, pretending to know more than you or I. He knows less than you and I because of his inward focus, his limited experience in the world outside the beltway, and his selfish desires to remain in the spotlight.
They support the Public Option for themselves and for Israel as they give them your billions, every year but they do not want you to have a Public option because you are not good enough.
You are a bad American and don't deserve it. Only Israel.
When all the poor people are in Jail because they couldn't afford health insurance the republicans will win by default. Why would they be against this? just like the abortion issue, do you think it's rich white folks are killing their babies? why would they be against that also? someones got to save you from your own stupidity.
1. No Constitutional power granted to the legislature allows for the management of health care.
2. You have no "right" to government health care because you have no right to the fruits of another's labor.
3. Any legislation that increases minimum premiums to $15K, demands that you pay a penalty if you don't carry it, and threatens up to $250K in fines and 5 years jail time is ***NOT AN "OPTION" OF ANY KIND***
Come out of "LaLa Land" folks.
They are lying to you, and it's all a huge power grab.
Democrats are going to get hammered after any bill like this comes into effect. The republicans will come back in power due to this, its just that this bill will never be reversed because the big businesses who back it own your favorite legislators.
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the overall debate that was just as negative as this bill. It passed anyway and our seniors are better off for it.
Except that medicare and social security and all of those types of programs are destined to collapse. They are ponzi schemes.
And what I was referring to was the fact that suddenly a whole lot of people out there are going to realize that by law they are required to buy extremely expensive insurance that they don't want or need.
freesk, if you've always been an avid supporter of Constitution, even during W era, I applaud you my friend. It's just mighty curious that all these rightwingers that all of a sudden have found constitution in their pockets were nowhere to be found to stop torture or warrantless wiretapping.
And good luck arguing that basic healthcare doesn't qualify as "general welfare" category granted to congress by constitution. Similar challenges based on 10th against Social Sec. failed in the courts
Social Security didn't even qualify as falling under the "general welfare" category.
It was argued in front of the Supreme Court that it was nothing more than a general tax on the populace to be used in the general fund like all other taxes. That is how they skirted the constitutionality of it.
The "general welfare" of the nation may only be provided for via the delegated powers under Section 8. It is not, in and of itself, and all-encompassing power.
Kauboy, the 10th ammendment was used to challenge federal powers to establish Social Security AND Medicare in courts, all of which failed in the past.
You guys try your luck again my friend, especially with the "opt-out" option for states. Then this will merely be a tax increase for those states who opt out, unpleasant? yes. Unconstitutional? No
And BTW, happy to see you rightwingers have all of a sudden discovered constitution after you used it as sanitary paper during the W era
The Social Security Act was a lie told to the American people to increase their taxes.
When challenged in 1937, the lawyers for the executive branch had to argue that, unlike the pretty story of your own savings "lockbox"(thanks Gore), the money paid into SS was nothing more than a tax on the people to be used in the general fund.
It was a socialist power grab, and Roosevelt knew it. He admitted that it was a vote getter, and nothing else.
This will be the same. More taxes, and less liberty.
So far, Obama has taken ownership of an auto company, used tax payer money to force out CEOs and force mergers, the congress is going to offer health care coverage...
In 10 months, Obama has managed to put more skid marks into the Constitution than Bush ever could have.
And he's got 3 more years.
He will destroy this country, and you'll be cheering him on the entire time.
Kauboy, you know what's disgusting? What Reaganesque corporate puppets have done to this country, with middle class drowning in rising taxes & inflation while the rich getting richer with the top 1% now controlling 36% of the total wealth. Trading our industrial base in exchange for massive debt to China, importing everything from computers to our underwear, struggling to compete against Costa Rica for the 37th spot in the world ranking for access to health care
Oh yeah the classic "the wealthy pays a lot of taxes", "oh don't bite the hand that feeds you, the wealthy create jobs" argument.
Last year a dozen of WallStreet traders made more than $1 Billion each, by shorting the stocks in your and my 401K, the top one earning $3.2 Billion. How much jobs did they create? Wallstreet is slated to give out more than $10B in bonuses to their execs this year. How many jobs would those fat cats create?
I Believe This Was A Video Clip Of CBS News' Face The Nation With Bob Schieffer's Report On Lindsey Graham: Reform "D.O.A." In Senate, Public Option "A Disaster" On Sunday Morning, November 8, 2009.
radiodj1520 3 weeks ago
kauboy9816 wants you to believe that you can go to the store and BUY ANYTHING YOU WANT ON THE CREDIT CARD and never pay for it. Like the federal government who can deficit spend. We'll just raise the borrowing limit, like Congress just did, and assume more debt load. Of course that has REAL IMPLICATIONS for Americans as states and the govt now have to underfund or cut programs altogether, but our bozo-the-clown kauboy9816 doesn't want you to think about that. Morons like him live in dreamworld.
medartist01 2 years ago
Lastly, kauboy9816 reminds us of what happens when you have meth-addicts in charge of our capital investing. His insane idea of how the value of the dollar has an influence over the mega-BORROWING-and-spending under Bush is meaningless. Tell me, moron, how the value of the dollar can make up for the $10 trillion lost under Bush? That is, the Natl Debt, Deficit, TARP, bank and business failures, loss of home equity, and losses in the Stock Market. Not even including 2 failed, ongoing wars to fix.
medartist01 2 years ago
Where do your numbers come from?
I'm guess you extracted them from an orifice you frequent often...
The national debt stands at just over 12 trillion.
By your assertion, 10 trillion of that is Bush's fault.
What a nimrod.
I never condoned the overspending.
Don't lump me in with Bush just because I'm a conservative. He proved he was no conservative.
The spending under Obama in his first year alone is making the entire 8 years of Bush look like chump change.
Oh, I guess we got change after all.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
Thanks for trying to converse with the adults, but you should return to the kid's table now.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
ALL Our industrial peers have health ins., with one thing in common: basic ins. is provided on a NON-PROFIT basis, with low or NO co-pays, @ low monthly cost -less than what you pay now for a good plan!
PLEASE Google your Senator & Rep and email them. Tell them we want what our peers have, health ins at reasonable cost, on a NON-PROFIT basis! NO MORE GIVEAWAYS to Big Pharma and INS COMPANIES. Pls write today!
BostonRocker51 2 years ago
In the 50's & 60's we had 90% marginal tax rate. Didn't we have a lot of millionaires back then? Was America under the tyranny of Communism back then?
When a single earner could raise a family and pay for their kids education? Is that possible today? And if you think 1% of population going from owning 20% of wealth in 60's to 36% now is fine, then you have no problem with them owning 60% in a decade? 80%? 90%? Oh heck let them have 100% or else we're "greedy lazy socialist bastards", right?
happyventure 2 years ago
As for your crap that we need to make nice with the super-rich or they'll leave, first of all, would you accept a similar blackmail from Latinos that either you allow more illegals in or we're not gonna vote for your party? United Arab Emirates has 0% tax rate, why don't they all move there then? B/C nowhere else can they find such a combination of peace, infrastructure, rule of law and huge pool of middle-class consumers, and also get bozos like you cheering them "have more, you earned it"
happyventure 2 years ago
Look at the top 1% controlling around 20% of the wealth in 60s to around 35% today. Look at the CEO/Worker ratio going from 40:1 in 60s to 450:1 today. At this rate, where will it be in 40 yrs? 4,000:1? 4,000,000:1? Is such a huge gap b/w rich & poor healthy for a democracy? A select few have all the money & power buying & bribing their way up as they do today by spending $1million a day to lobby & bribe congress to kill health reform? Wont democracy & power of your vote be just a farce then?
happyventure 2 years ago
How did that ratio go up? Did these CEOs magically appear, and have their wealth?
NO!
Just like ANYONE else in this nation, they worked for it.
How dare you demand that they do more for you, when you aren't willing to earn it.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
Here's a scenario for you:
Let's say the fat cats have 36% of the money. They pay 40% of the taxes that fund the government that you, the lowly socialist, are suckling on the teet of.
Lets say, you decide that their wealth is too much for them. They should be forced to "spread it around".
In response to this, the fat cats decide to leave the country.
What do you do now?
How do you support your government entitlements now?
Inevitably, you all die because you're greedy lazy bastards.
Great job!!!
kauboy9816 2 years ago
How much money do you make it? A quarter million a year? 5 million a year? 25? Because I'm guessing it's around 50k a year.
In which case, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND ENJOY YOUR FREE HEALTHCARE. God damn, what the fuck is up with you poor retards defending the exceedingly wealthy? Fucking morons, the lot of you.
MarkG45 2 years ago
Upset a bit that you can't defend your own greed?
"exceedingly wealthy"???
Where do you get off being the arbiter on how much they should have?
If you're so upset about it, go tell your boss to piss off. You don't want his filthy money.
The plain and simple fact is, the government is more corrupt than any corporation EVER. Yet you want to trust them with your livelihood?
The shear hypocrisy of it boggles the mind.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
And at what point did you fall for the line that health care will be free???
Are you that delusional?
kauboy9816 2 years ago
do you find it free to drive on a highway? free to call the police in an emergency? free to have a phone line connected to your house? free have the fire department put out your burning house?
that sort of free. If you make under a quarter million dollars a year, shut the fuck up. It is free to you.
MarkG45 2 years ago
What planet do you live on???
Apparently you don't pay taxes.
Every single service you just mentioned is paid for right out of my pocket.
Lets look at the business owner who *does* make a quarter million.
When his taxes go up, or his expenses goes up due to this health care bill, it's going to affect his employees. They will either suffer a pay cut or get laid off.
Seems it isn't free to them either.
EVERYTHING COMES AT A COST!!!
To say otherwise is blind and naive.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
i believe the proposed tax increase on those who make over a quarter million was around 1.5%
and that would only be on his take home pay. Would not apply to money that would be reinvested in his business. So if that guy making $250,000 in profit a year... cant live off of $245,000 in profit a year.... your are completely correct... he will have to impose sweeping layoffs. Keep in mind this has nothing to do with the business... this is the money he deposits in his personal bank account.
mark1m 2 years ago
mark1m:
I don't understand how people think. It's HIS $5000!! What if I walked up to someone & grabbed a $20 out of their hand and said, "Excuse me, I need money for my co-pay, this is mine. Thank you".
Not to mention, businesses themselves will be taxed extra
The top 50% wage-earners, already pay 97% of the nation's taxes. When will it be enough? What happens when the h/c bill ends up costing more like EVERY OTHER Govt program has? Will people then want 80% from the "rich"?
2010GOP 2 years ago
before reagan the rich paid 70% in taxes, and amazingly we werent communists. He reduced it to 28% That was when the middle class stopped growing... and only the rich prospered from then on.
nobody is stealing anything from anybody. Rich reap the rewards of our economic system, thus they should have to pay most of the maintenance fees.
mark1m 2 years ago
Socialist!
Kindly get out of my country.
BTW, I'll be expecting a large payment from your checkbook soon. Have to spread it around you know.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
i would gladly pay every dime i have and put a gun in my mouth if it meant the country turned out the way i wanted it to.
There was a time when i thought mankind existed to serve me.... i later found out i existed to serve mankind.
mark1m 2 years ago
You should never hope the country changes its foundational principals to suit your liking. That's the mentality of a dictator..
You exist to serve and take care of your family.
What a terrible burden to think you are responsible for the entire country...
kauboy9816 2 years ago
what the hell do you think the constitution is? its a list of principles to suit their liking.
I came from a very rich family, and i hate my family for it. I did nothing to deserve what i have... probably 1000 people who are smarter than me and better than me that could do something amazing if they had the money i grew up with.
mark1m 2 years ago
The Constitution came about through revolution from a government that wasn't listening to its people.
It was then voted on by ALL states in the union.
That is NOT the whim of a scant few.
If you feel so ashamed to have been given so much, by all means, give it away to those you believe can do better with it.
But, the second you want to ***FORCE*** me to do the same, is the second I force you onto a one way plane trip to Venezuela.
Chavez will love you.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
Why is this a hard concept?
You do what you want to with yours, and I do what I want to with mine.
Slap in the rule of law to keep us from harming each other, and we're all set.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
rule of law that keeps us from harming each other is socialist.
seems like conservatives love the laws that protect them, because whats to stop a crazy liberal from pillaging you. But hate any other law that doesnt suit their needs.
If you wanna be anti government, dont only approve the laws that protect you.
mark1m 2 years ago
Socialism has nothing to do with law.
The Constitution is in place to keep the Government off our backs.
All other laws are to keep us off each other.
Socialism is when the government decides how they are going to affect you, and how they will cause you to affect others.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
Wait a second... are you playing both sides here???
Found this on another vid from user "markt1m"
"You grand kids will be paying for what this ****** is doing to our country."
I'm being played, aren't I?
kauboy9816 2 years ago
if anyone comes to me with a poor argument, yes i may argue the otherside. I dont care if you are a liberal, a conservative, a communist, or an anarchist... If i see an argument that isnt solid i will attack it. I do want a public option.... but im pretty damn conservative on every other subject.
mark1m 2 years ago
There's clearly no way to argue with you then.
You don't like the debt, but support a program that will make today's debt look like chump change.
I guess I give up...
kauboy9816 2 years ago
i guess if debt is all you consider... then reagan exploded our debt.
mark1m 2 years ago
@mark1m
Regan added to the debt at a time when the dollar's value was skyrocketing.
When you have more capital, you can afford more debt safely.
Debt, in and of itself, is not a bad thing.
But out of control spending, debt explosions, and a decreasing dollar value, all add up to a very bad outcome.
Sadly, that's the road we're on now.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
im talking about adding to the debt compared to GDP which is the only measure that matters and thus the value of the dollar is meaningless. ie I make $100 a year and i spend $120 a year. The value of the dollar doesnt make a difference. You are spending more than you make.
And Reagen and both bushes were huge at spending more than we earned... clinton and carter actually lowered our comparative debt.
Republicans are the ones that ballooned our debt, not democrats.
mark1m 2 years ago
You completely and totally missed the point.
When you have a higher value in your pocket, you can afford more debt, because it is comparatively less of a burden than it was before.
When you use debt wisely, and are in a better situation to potentially pay it, you can borrow more.
Debt to GDP is not a completely accurate representation.
FYI, under Obama, by 2014 it's being predicted that we'll hit a debt point that is 100% of GDP.
And in supporting this health bill, you support that as well ;-)
kauboy9816 2 years ago
i dont know what you mean by money in our pocket... you mean our gold reserves at fort knox or something? I dont think we have invested our money in gold reserves in god knows how long... waaaay before reagan. The US government doesnt have "money in its pocket"
And yes, Obama will have a massive debt. .. but it has nothing to do with him. Tax cuts are what skyrocketed our debt, democrats have actually been the ones that typically lower it.
mark1m 2 years ago
@mark1m
I said "value in your pocket".
When the value of your dollar goes up, you have a stronger position to hold more debt safely. It's simple economics.
And no, tax cuts NEVER cause debt.
Overspending is what causes debt.
Do you automatically go into debt when you suffer a lowering of income?
Only if you continue to spend like you always did or more.
The loss of income does not CAUSE debt.
The overspending does.
Why this fact doesn't compute in the liberal's mind, I'll never know.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
If you can't pay your bills because you can't find a job & your unemployment has run out as well as your savings & credit (if you have any to begin with), then what? Starve? How can you say that the loss of income isn't what causes debt?
I have to disagree with you on that point. It DOES cause debt, even if you're careful. By the math, you're right. But in practice, you're off base with that kind of thinking, IMO. The value wouldn't matter @ that point. Economics is theoretical. Reality isn't.
DrGoodwrench64 2 years ago
I'm not off base at all.
You don't go into debt until you spend more than you make.
The government only has one form of income. Taxes.
When their income goes down (tax cuts), they have to re-budget.
They never do so, and thus cause more debt.
You cannot go into debt unless you spend too much.
We're talking about the government here, not individuals.
I'm not telling anyone to starve, but you have to cut back when you suffer a loss of income.
The government never cuts back to survive. We must.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
kauboy9816 is a buffoon. He says that the SKY IS NOT BLUE. And he's talkin' a mile a minute to convince you of that. OF COURSE TAX CUTS UNDER George W. Bush CREATED DEBT. Real debt. It wasn't offset by revenue cuts or tax increases. Bush simply BORROWED-and-BORROWED-and-spent, doubling the Natl Debt in 8 yrs to $12 trillion dollars! NOTpaying for his 2, failed, ongoing wars, and cutting revenues to the states. A real moron when it comes to basic economics 101. Like a Las Vegas gambler, clown.
medartist01 2 years ago
BTW, what did you do with your other account???
You just decide to go full on lib?
kauboy9816 2 years ago
Ah yeah, the typical crap that you rightwing derivatives have been spoon-fed, that the WallStreet execs who're going to get $10+ Billion in bonuses this year "have earned it" & the rest of us asking why such a disparity b/w their acts & pay, why they get to screw up the entire global economy & yet get golden parachutes, why our system makes us hostage to these too big to fail corps that unless bailed out would put millions out of work, are "greedy lazy bastards". Yeah my friend, you have a brain
happyventure 2 years ago
The BlackWater contractor who does the exact job a marine does but gets 3x more from our GOV has "earned it", but the soldier who asks why according to you is a "greedy lazy bastard"
The AIG executives who sold subprime ins without having enough cash to cover an eventual claim causing a domino effect in bank collapses getting 100s of millions of $ in bonuses have "earned it", but a commercial airline pilot earning $60k having to work 2nd & 3rd shift to make ends meet is a "greedy lazy bastard"
happyventure 2 years ago
DOA thank God! DOA DOA DOA My new 3 favorite letters :D That Reed is so lost, he knows they don't even have 48 votes lol let alone the 60 they need. won't ever happen and especially in 2010 with elections coming.
youbestbequiet 2 years ago
Health Care reform is a JOKE! There are ~30 million people give or take that currently have 0 healthcare which are trying to be covered by this bill. Of those 30 million 15 million refuse to carry insurance, 13 million are illegal aliens which have No right for healthcare insurance leaving 2 million that have fallen in the gap. I think 2million is an easier number to work with than the Bullshit numbers Congress is trying to force down our throats... Want a revolt? Pass your fucking bill!
jeffpilotj 2 years ago
NO ONE gives a fuck about Morgages and wat ever else you dumb asses are babbling about..this post is about Healthcare reform..Take that BS somewhere else Please..Fuck off
wooddrow79 2 years ago
These guys just make up number of who wants this and how much it will cost. It is all lies and is set up to take over private healthcare and leave the people with NO CHOICE NO COMPETITION NO RIGHTS.
They want Big Government take over of our lives. WE WANT FREEDOM.
quizerry 2 years ago
These conservative didn't have a problem dictating health care to Terry Shiavo.
Nor do they care about government dictating health care to women having abortions.
Nor do they care if government dictates who gay people can marry.
Nor do they care if government spends billions on the military industrial complex.
Nor do they have a problem with government allowing them to carry AK47's to church.
These Pro-Lifers cared sooo much about a fertilized egg,,now they tell it to fuck off!
renijohn012270 2 years ago 2
Do you constantly speak out of your ass, or is this a one time thing?
1. A *true* conservative will never dictate, at the federal level, any abortion law. That should be a state issue.
2. See #1, substitute the topic
3. The government has the Constitutional authority to build and sustain a military.
4. The 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. Forgives us for upholding the Constitution.
My dollar should not be used to pay for another's abortion.
Plain and simple.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
1) all drugs should be legal according to you, unless the state says otherwise
2) I have a constitutional right to bear arms with a nuclear warhead for my own protection
MarkG45 2 years ago
1. Yes, according to Constitutional law, all drugs should be legalized unless the states restrict them.(see 10th Amendment)
(BTW, welcome to the view of the current AG Eric Holder)
2. The founders believed in the person's right to bear arms. It was commonly agreed that any "arms" that could be carried by the individual should be legal to carry in defense of oneself.
You have no right to a nuclear warhead.
I could hit these softballs all day.
You got anymore?
kauboy9816 2 years ago
"commonly agreed" yea thats some fucking scholarly description there. So then the only requirement that's "commonly agreed" is being able to carry it? Well, I guess that means I have a constitutional right to a dirty bomb. or anthrax. or hollow point bullets
MarkG45 2 years ago
The "arms" described in the Constitution were for personal defense. Primarily, the gun.
A dirty bomb is not a defensive weapon.
Anthrax is not a weapon at all.
Hollow points are perfectly legal.
I have them in my sidearm at all times.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
Senator Graham: YOU'RE WRONG!
adamzanzie 2 years ago 3
Is this the same guy who supported the public option in his town hall meeting as his constituency called him Hitler and traitor???
Don't worry about the democrats' districts Graham because you'll because you'll be having some trouble in your own. Including some from me!
bundlesjr 2 years ago
The under-30 crowd that clamored for Barack Obama last year needs to brace for a change they wont believe in: The return of income tax bracket creep, according to The Wall Street Journals editorial page.
Buried in Nancy Pelosi's health-care bill is a provision that will partially repeal tax indexing for inflation, meaning that as their earnings rise over a lifetime these youngsters can look forward to paying higher rates even if their income gains aren't real.
Pelousy is a loony bitch!
Zile77 2 years ago
The younger kids will have to start paying for Pelousy's H/C crap when they get a job, if they can get one. They'll be working for next to nothing. As they get into their 20's, they'll be taxed to the max and still be slaves of the communist government in the USSA. Lib/dums have no idea what's being done to them.
Zile77 2 years ago
Let's do this id a very democratic way. Those who are in favor of the public option will get it and they will get the same services that the 37 countries ahead of the US in health care have.
Those who oppose the public option, sign a letter in which they and their families give up on any public service (Medicare, medicaid, social security transportation, etc.). They will work 3-4 jobs to pay their skyrocketing premiums and they will put grandma to work because she needs to give up on medicare
MrFreedomdemocracy 2 years ago 3
A piece of legisration this big takes years of dabate you BOOB, "on the table since June" what do you think this is, a vote on what colors the football team should wear, just how ignorant are you ?
lzanman0929 2 years ago
LOL.... You're right, and the Obama koolaid-drinkers don't know anything about the bill. They continue to have the attitude that "Obama promised us change, so this bill must be good!" They're such TOOLS
JimboVids 2 years ago
I just wish I could vote 25 thumbs up on JCGrantatAC answer, thank you for setting the IDIOTS straight on ideology and the military, you and I both know their probably UC Berkely grads/students because there's no way they ever spent a day in the military.
lzanman0929 2 years ago
Obama is well on his way to being the second worse president in U.S. history, next to Jimmy Carter.
JimboVids 2 years ago
If he is going to be the second worst president honey, is going to be right after George Bush... why do you think we are so fucked now?
Alkisha98 2 years ago
He is Bush III
Vunks2000 2 years ago
It's scary. It took HOURS of debate in the House, and we even had to sacrifice and support an anti-choice amendment just to get the bill this far. It's crap like this that makes me criticize the fact that we have two houses... really reflects the paranoia and distrust people had back when this country was being developed.
I hope to God this thing passes, but Lieberman certainly doesn't help. It's embarrassing to have him as one of my senators... can't wait to see him voted him out in 2012.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago 4
It took HOURS of debate... yes, not NEARLY enough. The bill is monstrous and was rushed through to prevent people from making rationale decisions.
There's a reason it's suppose to be hard to grow the government, and it's the reason we have the old surviving government from the time of its founding.
EnonimusTransmission 2 years ago
Are you nuts? RUSHED THROUGH?
Refresh your memory- this thing has been on the table since JUNE.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago
The only reasonwhy they want to pass this in it's form is for power. Controll the peoples healhcare and they will control every aspect of your life. Down with the liberals and up with the Americans. We like our liberties thank you. They are mine not yours. You keep forgetting that. I just can't believe people are believing all this reterick Obama and company are spreading. PLEASE. It's like selling your healthcare to the devil. NO thanks. I'll keep my fredoms thank you. KMA
KSP0520 2 years ago
?? Are you serious? you are letting fear take you entirely.. The Devil? for real? you need to unplug your tv asap.. need to think a little bit more..this is another option, not the only option.. man, this county is going down because of ppl like you...
Alkisha98 2 years ago
Sodomite Senator Linsday Graham is taking bribes from Aetna Wellpoint and Blue Cross Blue Shield. The more you know!
CarryANationIII 2 years ago
This will not pass. It's America, though your congessmen may have forgotten that they will be reminded in 2010 and 2012 thank god. They have no jurisdiction to tell me how to raise my kids etc. this is the biggest attack on freedom in years. 20% of liberals are trying to force Millions of Americans to giving the power to them over your individual rights. NOt going to happen. Shame on those relying on their goverment and who have to be spoon fed and told what to do and how to act. 2010 2012 yes!
KSP0520 2 years ago
KSP0520, "this is the biggest attack on freedom in years", really?
Bigger than W's authorizing torture, suspending constitutional right "habeas corpus" (sorry I know this is too complex a word for you Glenn Beck crowd), warrantless wiretapping?
This is a freaking OPTION, you don't like it, be my guest, go get screwed by the ins industry that doesn't insure "raped women" b/c of their "pre-existing condition"
Health reform was debated at length in last election ... and people voted for it
happyventure 2 years ago
Pretty hysterical that these rightwing internet blowhards are posting their insane conspiracy theories here!
Dumbass racist dipshits with handles like "countryboy" spreading their bullshit lies on YouTube as if they make any difference whatsoever.
Sad, delusional, and increasingly irrelevant old men screaming at clouds. It's like watching the death spasms of the GOP.
Keep screaming GOP...the rest of us are moving into the future. Without YOU.
misterobvious 2 years ago
IN THE MEANTIME...
you anti-American, Left-wing pieces of shit with community college educations and a ghetto constituency just got your asses handed to you in NJ and VA and you seek solace in defeating a marginal, 3rd-party candidate by 3 percentage points in NY.
Adding to your pitiable existence, you worship some burnt match who has never been anything more than a 3rd year Junior Associate lawyer and adjunct lecturer.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
In a county that hasn't sent a Democratic candidate since the Civil War Era. Yeah, no big win there for the Democrats.
staticry 2 years ago
JCGrantAC:
IN THE MEANTIME....we just got 2 MORE NATIONAL votes for Obama's agenda. One of which had been republican for 100 years! You won 2 LOCAL elections (yawn) and Virginia traditionally has gone GOP anyway. So....keep polishing that turd!
I thought the Left was supposed to be "elitist" according to you fools. Now we're all "ghetto" huh?
Harvard ghetto I suppose?
the GOP can't GET any more anti-American than not caring if thousands of Americans are dying each year from no healthcare!
misterobvious 2 years ago 2
I CONCERN MYSELF...
with elections where 6 million (x 2) people vote and not some marginal congressional election that was a chaotic anomalies. Keep whistling past the graveyard, loser. It sounds like you have as much professional experience as the classless President. Each day it becomes more clear that he was raised by trash--he's inappropriate daily. It sounds like you may have been conceived on a pool table at 3 a.m. too.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
anomaly*
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
Harvard? Big deal. I graduated summa cum laude from an Ivy League school. It qualifies you for your first day of work and that's it. You Liberal morons never get beyond the classroom--that why you're unqualified to run anything. As for the Affirmative Action President, he was coddled by Left-wing extremist garbage his whole life. The monkey can't even speak without his teleprompter. He probably makes love to it. Lord knows he isn't making love to his wife--she's a beast..
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
YEAH, LIBERAL MORON...
In case you missed it, your largest constituency comes from the ghetto. The other half is made up of poverty-stricken college professors, newspaper reporters and loser union members performing jobs better left to chimps.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
JCGrantatAC,
Your arguments are predictable and childish. You're obviously living in a fantasy world, and I really doubt you have a high school diploma, much less a college degree like you claim. Fucking idiot.
waydownNMway 2 years ago
waydownNMway,
I could intellectually mug you if I had brain cancer and a 106 degree fever. I graduated summa cum laude, Phi
Beta Kappa and Order of the Coif.
I could also buy and sell you a dozen times every ten minutes you Left-wing piece of shit.
Now, go suck a dick you Anti-American loser.
J.C.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
"Now, go suck a dick you Anti-American loser"
Wow. What an intelligent comment.
"graduated summa cum laude, Phi
Beta Kappa and Order of the Coif."
Riiiiiigght. I believe you! You've truly demonstrated your intellectual prowess here!
Haha. Fucking moron.
waydownNMway 2 years ago 2
NO DOUBT A TYPICAL EFFETE LIBERAL...
with the collar popped on your pink polo. Get in the back of the bus, little guy.
Parenthetically, do you have to get estrogen shots to be a Liberal and a man?
Get an education, grow a set of balls or, at the very least, enlist.
Tell us about your educational background and long, storied career.
You're a low-level hand-wringer, son.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
... More intelligent comments from the high-school dropout troll JCGrantaAC ....
waydownNMway 2 years ago
You want to "buy and sell" me? Hmmmmmm..... I think I have a good idea what your "occupation" is. Which corner do you work on, and how many "employees" do you have?
waydownNMway 2 years ago
JCGrantaatAC
There is no way in hell that ANYONE believes any of your supposed educational boasts. It's obvious by your posts that you barely graduated high school.
It's also obvious that you are currently UNEMPLOYED.
misterobvious 2 years ago
HOW TO EXPOSE A CRAVEN, UNEDUCATED LIBERAL...
misterobvious,
What is the leading case under the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution? Upon which legal theory was it decided? How is it material to the current healh care debate? Anyone with even a modicum of education could answer the question in 20 seconds.
Ladies and gentlemen, wait for crickets to start chirping.
Signed,
Your Owner
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
Oh wow, are you a pompous, arrogant asshole or what!? Who the fuck do you think you are putting down the common man? You don't respect college professors or union members because they don't make much for a living? In your eyes, that makes them losers? Damn, I wish people like you had more humility. You're absolutely disgusting!
jfkjrlover 2 years ago
SO IS YOUR MOTHER...
you anti-American, Liberal piece of shit.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
gallup poll americans 40%conservative 38%independent 20%liberal
exweez 2 years ago
"the [other party] can't GET any more anti-American than not caring if thousands of Americans are dying each year from no healthcare! "
So you define American as forcing your cares on others through force and criminalization? You'd like to take freedoms away from people for not caring?
The problem isn't caring, it's stealing. The government is stealing both personal property and personal rights, as it has no authority take either from me. Go help in a rescue mission if you care so much.
EnonimusTransmission 2 years ago
ErroneousGOPmission:
I'm not defining WHAT is American...that's a GOP game.
But if you don't CARE if thousands of your fellow Americans are DYING every year for lack of healthcare, then you are, BY DEFINITION, ANTI-AMERICAN.
You have complete freedom to not enroll in any public program. I hope you enjoy your "freedom" and go broke paying for cancer treatments when your insurance dumps you.
You are the cliche rightwinger: self-centered, angry, bigoted, uneducated, loud, stupid, ASSHOLE.
misterobvious 2 years ago
misobvious,
I'm not a GOP member; I'm independent. Bush was no friend of the Republic. Neither is Obama.
You claim to care, but what you want is to make other people responsible for your care. I'm glad to see you care so much after that one comment you wish cancer on me, certainly the model of liberal compassion, huh?
Bush and the GOP cared about people suffering in Iraq, so we went to war. Healthcare is your war. Neither, is in the government's authority no matter how hard you care.
EnonimusTransmission 2 years ago
EarlyNocturnalEmission said:
"Bush and the GOP cared about people suffering in Iraq, so we went to war. Healthcare is your war."
WHAT THE FUCK?!!! You seriously think that is why we went to war in Iraq? Oh my God you are SERIOUSLY fucking delusional! If there was anyone out there who didn't already think you're insane....you've disqualified anything else spewing from your mouth!
Healthcare is a "war"? THAT is some SERIOUSLY fucked up logic. No point in talking to someone THAT delusional.
misterobvious 2 years ago
"WHAT THE FUCK?!!! You seriously think that is why we went to war in Iraq?"
No, of course I don't, but that is what a lot of people said, are you seriously so disconnected and hold your views so elevated that you never listen? People are delusional, you're right about that. You're delusional to think your righteous indignation justifies such immature, unlawful trampling of others rights just because you "care" in the same way the people you label un-American do so with their cares. Wake up.
EnonimusTransmission 2 years ago
ErroeousGOPTransmission:
What "rights" of yours are being violated? Other than the right to be a completely delusional conspiracy-theory nutcase. Your "concern" about imaginary "threats" to "rights" is just a smokescreen for your irrational fear and hatred.
The fact that you put "care" in quotes speaks volumes. For YOU it must be an "act" for someone to actually care what happens to their fellow Americans.
Nevermind. You're not worth wasting anymore time on...fuck off
misterobvious 2 years ago
The fact you put "rights" in quotes speaks volumes. I put "care" in quotes because you obviously don't care about my well-being based on your past numerous inflammatory comments.
This healthcare bill forces citizens to buy a service which is a luxery not a right, and it robs from the rich to feed the poor -- thus making everyone poor and the government all powerful.
I am sure beyond any doubt I do more to help needy Americans than you ever will, so don't play this I-just-care nonsense on me.
EnonimusTransmission 2 years ago
yes, dumbfuck, my quotes were deliberately used to be sarcastic...
Man you are SO clueless...
misterobvious 2 years ago
You're right, I DON'T care about you because YOU don't give a shit about others.
You will not be forced to sign up for ANYTHING...and I hope you that you don't choose a public option. I hope that you get cancer, your insurance company dumps you, and that you go bankrupt trying to pay your medical bills.
Then I hope that you will put your head a out of your ass...just before you slowly DIE.
Because THEN you will prove to ALL of us how "free" you are.
Goodnight asshole.
misterobvious 2 years ago
you will be forced to pay for it. DOA understand!
exweez 2 years ago
"But if you don't CARE if thousands of your fellow Americans are DYING every year for lack of healthcare, then you are, BY DEFINITION, ANTI-AMERICAN."
Who said I don't care? I just don't justify illegal, unconstitutional use of force and mob-like bullying to make others do things for me.
EnonimusTransmission 2 years ago
What do you mean "burnt match."
chinacat22 2 years ago
GET SOME LIKE EXPERIENCES...
This isn't an internment camp where you get spoon fed your lessons.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
"GET SOME LIKE EXPERIENCES..."
Um, hate to break it to you, genius, but that's not English. Unless you're a teenage girl.
waydownNMway 2 years ago
YEAH, A BRILLIANT FIND MORON...
Now, go get some life experiences. I'm sure you'd make a great secretary.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
I bet you're a teabagger. Like most teabaggers, you would easily fail a citizenship test, I'm sure. Two teabaggers last week were on here trying to convince me that "the Declaration of Independence IS the preamble to the Constitution! Derf!" I doubt you know any better, what with the degree you got online and all.
waydownNMway 2 years ago
A TYPICAL UNEDUCATED LIBERAL...
The "Declaration of Independence" is a preamble--small p---to the U.S. Constitution, idiot.
Now, the androgynous, hermaphrodite Left-wing shill, Rachel Maddow, didn't even know that the U.S. Constitution had a Preamble--capital P. And, that birkenstock-wearing dyke is supposed to be a Rhodes Scholar and leader among you Left-wing scum. She's a disgrace to Stanford and Oxford.
And, you're a disgrace to your local community college.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
Don't even try to lecture me about history, high school dropout. I know a hell of a lot more than you. And like everything else you babble about nonsensically, you know absolutely nothing about me. On the other hand, I'd recognize someone like you immediately; you're not qualified to mop shit off the floor of my office bathroom.
waydownNMway 2 years ago
"The "Declaration of Independence" is a preamble--small p---to the U.S. Constitution, idiot"
WOW, you Googled "U.S. Constitution" .... hooray for the mentally handicapped!
waydownNMway 2 years ago
"GOOGLED THE U.S. CONSTITUTION"?
What does the Constitution have to do with my saying that the Declaration of Independence is a preamble--small "p"-- to the U.S. Constituion?
What did I mean by my post? Most 7th graders could answer the question. Watch this uneducated Liberal get exposed.
Crickets chirping.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
JC, pull your retarded head out of your ass, get out of your parents' basement, get your GED and get a job. I'm sick of reading your dumbass comments. Fucking stupid kid. Don't reply to this. I'm signing out. Unlike yourself, I have a life. Invesco Field, here I come!
waydownNMway 2 years ago
I KNEW YOU'D PUSSY OUT, LIBERAL..
It's just like when you cowards fail to enlist and actually fight for your country. Now, go back to your UC-Berkeley dorm, loser.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
JCGrantatAC:
I really hope you find a job soon... before you take a rifle to the top of a tower. You are that delusionally stupid.
Have fun Googling yourself, alone and angry, in your bedroom.
misterobvious 2 years ago
"It's just like when you cowards fail to enlist and actually fight for your country. "
Right on, brother. Real men like Dick Cheeny, Tom Tancredo, Lindsey Graham and George Bush, who all fought for our country, Oh wait. No they all got out of duty when it was their time to serve.
It was Democrat John Kerry and Congressman John Murtha who SIGNED UP TO FIGHT in Vietnam.
jensen1901 2 years ago
MILITARY BREAKDOWN BY IDEOLOGY:
Conservatives: 63%; Moderates 30%; Liberals 7%.
Liberals are anti-American cowards.
Get a basic education, son.
JCGrantatAC 2 years ago
Are you calling John Kerry a coward? Max Cleeland? Rep. John Murtha? Patty Muaury? Jim Webb? All Democrats who served.
jensen1901 2 years ago
JCGrantatAC, to ditto-heads such as yourself, anyone who is not a ditto-head is a "liberal" remember?
Ron Paul was more popular in the military than whichever Republican you supported (probably Mr. Old Spice?)
CarryANationIII 2 years ago
Graham is in an identity crisis! It is easier to do nothing than something. You don't have to defend your inactions and that is why their party is tanking. Cowards come to mind!
billeybop 2 years ago
This plan also reads that NO ONE can renew any policy after 2013. They must give in to government HC at that time, like it or not. How fair is that?
We all want HC reform, I personally need it right now but not at the expense of loosing America.
Americans are very intelligent people, we can design our own HC plan that doesn't involve the government.
Call your congressmen and say NO to HC reform right now, fix the economy then come right back to the HC issue. The current plan is a lose lose.
Mixman77 2 years ago
Mixman....not to mention this bill is unconstitutional. The federal government doesn't have the Constitutional authority to force every American citizen to buy a health insurance plan. It simply doesn' t have the Constitutional backing to mandate such a thing.
countryboy1949 2 years ago
You Are 100% Correct! Unfortunately the democrats have either forgotten that fact or are simply ignoring it. There is no doubt they would completely destroy the Constitution if they could. The democrats have always been the evil side, if you will. They started the KKK, fought to keep slavery, opposed the first blacks in government and so much more evil to speak of. They have a plan to make America a completely democratic state and If that ever happened we would all be screwed, including dems.
Mixman77 2 years ago
Example: they are offering an "opt out option," for states, yet even if the state opts out, they still have to pay for it anyway. Once again, the democrats thinking Americans are stupid and trying to take full advantage of us all. They rely on the ignorance of their followers and encourage them to come on sites like YouTube and spread their propaganda. The sad thing is, these people who are on here fighting for HC could pay for their own with what they are spending to be on here complaining.
Mixman77 2 years ago
You are correct, giving the states a right to opt out means nothing.....As a matter of fact the States don't need permission from the feds to "opt out", the 10th amendment gives the States that right. Just look at what Arizona is doing--Arizona's Health Care Freedom Act, let's citizens opt out if the wish to. That's the 10th amendment in action today.
countryboy1949 2 years ago
The opt out is all well and good, until you get to the harsh reality that the people of those "opt out' states are still paying for the services that others are getting.
How can we be expected to subsidize a program that we aren't using ourselves?
I don't know how the whole opt out hand will play out, but I think it will end in court, and who knows which way it could go.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
What, back up democrat, how in the hell is our being taxed to death going to improve the economy? The democrats had the chance to improve the economy and blew the hell out of it. They bull shitted us into spending more money and they are the only ones getting rich, nothing has been fixed. They printed all of the money but only used 15% they can show. My God people, can you not see the complete raping of us all? The democrats are destroying this great nation! They have an agenda thats against us!
Mixman77 2 years ago
Preach on brother ! around 15% of the stimulus plan money has been spent. They are hording the rest and have the gall to be talking of a stimulus 2.0
countryboy1949 2 years ago
I hope that everyone that wanted this health care gets sick and gets rationed care then I want to say told you so....
gchand7 2 years ago
I don't care that Lindsay Graham is gay..
I do care that he puts the interest of the Insurance Companies above the interests of the American Public.
He has sold his soul.
DillonX 2 years ago 2
DillonX:
Explain how requiring everyone in the US to buy their products hurts the insurance companies.
How does that put the American Public above the interests of the Insurance Companies?
You don't know! Because you are a fucking tool. Everyone in the us would be required to buy the products of the companies you claim to hate.
Brilliant! Brilliant!
DOWN WITH THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!
FORCE EVERYONE TO BUY THEIR PRODUCTS!
ERR SOMEHOW THAT WORKS OR SOMETHING! DURRR
evan13579b 2 years ago
boooo hoooo if the insurence companies can't compete !!that doesn't matter one bit !! you know what does matter though!? What matters is that if someone is sick they can get medical treatment.. And the doctors dont have to worry about wondering if someone has the propper type of coverage.. All that the doctors should be thinking about is what would be the best treatment possible to make the patient well..
captcaveman4201 2 years ago 2
Yes Senator Graham. Seniors will definitely be hurt by this, that's why the AARP endorsed the plan. Good lie.
Painsandwich 2 years ago
Lindsey Graham represents no one but Lindsey Graham. There is no constituency for him. He will be drummed out of the corps in South Carolina. He is wrong about as often as he is right on most issues. He is an opportunistic mouthpiece for whatever the topic of the day is, pretending to know more than you or I. He knows less than you and I because of his inward focus, his limited experience in the world outside the beltway, and his selfish desires to remain in the spotlight.
NotEasilyRegimented 2 years ago
Lindsey wants Universal Health Care for everyone!
That is everyone in Israel, not you. You, are unworthy.
He votes to send YOUR money to Israel, every year so they can have the finest health care in the world!
He's your man!!!
1911arthur 2 years ago
They support the Public Option for themselves and for Israel as they give them your billions, every year but they do not want you to have a Public option because you are not good enough.
You are a bad American and don't deserve it. Only Israel.
1911arthur 2 years ago
Graham and Liberman are for Universal Health Care!
Not for you but for Israel.
They do not want you to have THEIR Government plan.
You are not good enough only them.
1911arthur 2 years ago
The American people will "NOT" have the "same" plan. Unless you have read this mosterous plan commenting on it is null and void.
RenegadeTimes 2 years ago
Why do Republicans not want you to have Their Government health plan and you will have the answer.
1911arthur 2 years ago
Why doesn't he give back his Government Health Plan?
He doesn't want you to have it like he does.
He is a hippocrite and has sided with the DEVIL
1911arthur 2 years ago
Gotta love DOA!
youbestbequiet 2 years ago
the proof is in the pudding! they are the party of no and they are mostly racists,hicks,hillbillies, and 1% of the 2% rich.
We all see it.
1911arthur 2 years ago
1911arthur:
And you have proven that you are part of the party of no brains.
evan13579b 2 years ago
Lindsay Graham is working for the Insurance Companies & not the American public.
HE MUST BE DEFEATED IN HIS NEXT ELECTION!
DillonX 2 years ago
DillonX:
The insurance companies managed to put, in every single bill, EVERY SINGLE BILL, a requirement that you buy health insurance or pay a fine.
AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT LINDSAY GRAHAM IS WORKING FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANIES?
evan13579b 2 years ago
pass the biiiiiii-i-i-il
okturus 2 years ago
It's fun to watch these Republiscums squirm!
The Party of No and soon, the party of NO ONE!
They have aligned themselves with the devil and hate the poor and uninsured.
Bad people!
1911arthur 2 years ago
1911arthur:
Right, lets kill black people!
Don't be the party of no!
How fucking stupid, and extremely fucking childish does one have to be to come out with the meme that saying no is a bad thing.
Being the party of "no" is just fine. There are plenty of things one should say no to.
Being the party of absolute stupidity evidenced by claiming "no" is a bad thing is not preferable to being the "party of no".
evan13579b 2 years ago
When all the poor people are in Jail because they couldn't afford health insurance the republicans will win by default. Why would they be against this? just like the abortion issue, do you think it's rich white folks are killing their babies? why would they be against that also? someones got to save you from your own stupidity.
davidpark68 2 years ago
I say 'fu(k the ins companies'. Let them die. But, this bill wont do it.
And, I'm certainly not happy about being forced to give those pricks money.
I'm with kucinich.
jekylfoot 2 years ago
hate it, hate it, hate it!
Isawanangel1X 2 years ago 2
1. No Constitutional power granted to the legislature allows for the management of health care.
2. You have no "right" to government health care because you have no right to the fruits of another's labor.
3. Any legislation that increases minimum premiums to $15K, demands that you pay a penalty if you don't carry it, and threatens up to $250K in fines and 5 years jail time is ***NOT AN "OPTION" OF ANY KIND***
Come out of "LaLa Land" folks.
They are lying to you, and it's all a huge power grab.
kauboy9816 2 years ago 6
Well put. You are right-on.
freesk8 2 years ago
keep crying, im sure it will help the conservatives gain power again
MarkG45 2 years ago
MarkG45:
Explain how when people have to start buying extremely expensive insurance by law they will be thrilled.
evan13579b 2 years ago
MarkG45:
Democrats are going to get hammered after any bill like this comes into effect. The republicans will come back in power due to this, its just that this bill will never be reversed because the big businesses who back it own your favorite legislators.
evan13579b 2 years ago
That's what they said when Medicare was passed. It never happened, so get used to it
Fringe111 2 years ago
Fringe111:
Medicare doesn't require seniors to pay more it requires them to pay nothing.
evan13579b 2 years ago
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the overall debate that was just as negative as this bill. It passed anyway and our seniors are better off for it.
Fringe111 2 years ago
Fringe111:
Except that medicare and social security and all of those types of programs are destined to collapse. They are ponzi schemes.
And what I was referring to was the fact that suddenly a whole lot of people out there are going to realize that by law they are required to buy extremely expensive insurance that they don't want or need.
evan13579b 2 years ago 3
It winds up costing them more because of the taxes they pay all their lives to fund the system.
They would pay less for greater benefits in a private system.
freesk8 2 years ago
freesk, if you've always been an avid supporter of Constitution, even during W era, I applaud you my friend. It's just mighty curious that all these rightwingers that all of a sudden have found constitution in their pockets were nowhere to be found to stop torture or warrantless wiretapping.
And good luck arguing that basic healthcare doesn't qualify as "general welfare" category granted to congress by constitution. Similar challenges based on 10th against Social Sec. failed in the courts
happyventure 2 years ago
Social Security didn't even qualify as falling under the "general welfare" category.
It was argued in front of the Supreme Court that it was nothing more than a general tax on the populace to be used in the general fund like all other taxes. That is how they skirted the constitutionality of it.
The "general welfare" of the nation may only be provided for via the delegated powers under Section 8. It is not, in and of itself, and all-encompassing power.
If it were, all the rest would be moot.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
Kauboy, the 10th ammendment was used to challenge federal powers to establish Social Security AND Medicare in courts, all of which failed in the past.
You guys try your luck again my friend, especially with the "opt-out" option for states. Then this will merely be a tax increase for those states who opt out, unpleasant? yes. Unconstitutional? No
And BTW, happy to see you rightwingers have all of a sudden discovered constitution after you used it as sanitary paper during the W era
happyventure 2 years ago
The Social Security Act was a lie told to the American people to increase their taxes.
When challenged in 1937, the lawyers for the executive branch had to argue that, unlike the pretty story of your own savings "lockbox"(thanks Gore), the money paid into SS was nothing more than a tax on the people to be used in the general fund.
It was a socialist power grab, and Roosevelt knew it. He admitted that it was a vote getter, and nothing else.
This will be the same. More taxes, and less liberty.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
So far, Obama has taken ownership of an auto company, used tax payer money to force out CEOs and force mergers, the congress is going to offer health care coverage...
In 10 months, Obama has managed to put more skid marks into the Constitution than Bush ever could have.
And he's got 3 more years.
He will destroy this country, and you'll be cheering him on the entire time.
Disgusting.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
i dont remember the constitution saying anything about the illegality of preserving our economy by playing a role in it, but nice try
MarkG45 2 years ago
The Constitution doesn't state "illegalities". It places limits.
There is no power, nor authority granted to the government of the United States via the Constitution that allows takeover of private businesses.
But nice try...
kauboy9816 2 years ago
Kauboy, you know what's disgusting? What Reaganesque corporate puppets have done to this country, with middle class drowning in rising taxes & inflation while the rich getting richer with the top 1% now controlling 36% of the total wealth. Trading our industrial base in exchange for massive debt to China, importing everything from computers to our underwear, struggling to compete against Costa Rica for the 37th spot in the world ranking for access to health care
happyventure 2 years ago
Don't lecture me on the middle class paying too much.
I want all taxes lowered.
You are aware that the top 1% pay 40.42% of the total tax bill, right?
Does THAT sound fair???
They may be wealthy, but they pay more in taxes than any other "class" can imagine.
Don't demonize the very people who offer jobs to the so-called middle class.
That's like biting the hand that feeds you.
Our massive debt to China isn't getting any smaller with this administration. And this bill doesn't help at all.
kauboy9816 2 years ago
Oh yeah the classic "the wealthy pays a lot of taxes", "oh don't bite the hand that feeds you, the wealthy create jobs" argument.
Last year a dozen of WallStreet traders made more than $1 Billion each, by shorting the stocks in your and my 401K, the top one earning $3.2 Billion. How much jobs did they create? Wallstreet is slated to give out more than $10B in bonuses to their execs this year. How many jobs would those fat cats create?
happyventure 2 years ago
When they turn around and spend that exorbitant amount of money on things they want and services they need, they have a HUGE hand in job creation.
kauboy9816 2 years ago