Classic Confrontations: Wilt Chamberlain vs Bill Russell

[BUCKTOWN518]

Russell would have scored a lot more points if he didn't have those HOFers on his team. He had to split the points with them.

[dwightmagic28]

hmmmm... 11 rings vs. a man who averaged about 50 ppg. Hard to decide

[Cooley96]

@dwightmagic28 he averaged them against people below 6'5 when he got an equal matchup he cracked and really Russel wasn't even equal he was still shorter. Russell had championships in college too. Russell is better.

[ChillyCloth]

Bill Russel is better

[ZipperZappleZ]

@ChillyCloth

Nate Thurmond: "You just can't say that because Bill won 11 championships, he was far superior to the rest of us centers in that era. He was a great player, but also in A GREAT SITUATION."

Larry Bird: "Let me tell you something. For a while, they were saying that I was the greatest. And before me, it was Magic who was the greatest. And then it's Michael's turn. But open up the record book and it will be obvious who the greatest is."

Oscar: "The books don't lie."

[shaqpopcorn34]

@ZipperZappleZ ..larry bird is going by stats...wilt is overrated...bird never saw wilt play...oscar said "the books dont lie"....they dont tell the whole story either....in wilts 7 scoring title yrs,he had 0 rings and he cracked 55% 0 times...and he led the reg.season in ppg 7 times...yet 1 time in the playoffs...he also played complete games,which is a joke considering he didnt come out in blowout wins and losses to statpad...not to mention the pace was far higher in the 60's,increasing stats

[ZipperZappleZ]

@shaqpopcorn34 blah blah blah bird never saw wilt play.... blah blah blah

did YOU ever see wilt play?

I watched him from the bleachers, just like I did West, Logo, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Maravich, David Thompson, , Moses, Dr. J & Moses Malone in their ABA days, Jordan - who had a hugely underrated team - Kobe and right up to last year when Dirk, Kidd & Terry methodically destroyed Wade's team by targeting their weakest link lebron james.

There has NEVER been a player like Wilt Chamberlain.

[shaqpopcorn34]

@ZipperZappleZ ..true..there has never been a player like wilt..a guy who could score 100 pts in a single game,yet get outscored in all 4 game 7's vs the celtics by SAM JONES

bron= 17.8 ppg in 2011 finals..

wilt= 17.7 ppg in 1967 finals to win his 1st title..LMAOO

in game 6 of the 69 finals with a chance to win it all and retire russell,wilt had 8 pts...TO RUSSELLS 18 PTS AT AGE 35 IN HIS 2ND TO LAST CAREER GAME..then the game 7 choke by wilt..wests 42-13-12 not enough cause wilt let him down

[shaqpopcorn34]

@ZipperZappleZ ....russell and wilt played 8 series....in every single one russells ppg went UP from the reg.season.....in every single one wilts went DOWN frome the reg.season.....LMAOOOOO...

russell has NEVER averaged 20 ppg in any season.....and yet...

russell= 20.7 ppg vs wilt in 60 series

russell= 22.0 ppg vs wilt in 62 series....31 pts in game 3....31 pts in game 4...29 pts in game 5.....LMAOOOO...

wilt 50.4 ppg that reg.season....22 pts in game 7....lower than teammate TOM MESCHERY

[ZipperZappleZ]

@ChillyCloth Kareem always said the best defensive center he ever played against was Nate Thurmond, and Jabbar played 20 years in the NBA. Kareem trashed Olajuwan in his prime when Kaeem was 40 years old.

Nate Thurmond played against Russell 7 years and against Chamberlain for 10 years. He and Oscar Robertson are the ultimate voice in the debate because they PLAYED AGAINST BOTH OF THEM they are both in the Hall of Fame, and they both say Chamberlain was the greatest.

[shaqpopcorn34]

@ZipperZappleZ ...kareem and wilt are both overrated....kareem trashed olajuwon at 40?...no he didnt....kareem simply shot-jacked vs top centers to get as many pts as possible,while getting DOMINATED on the boards....kareem also shot-jacked vs wilt,taking insane amounts of shots despite a big drop in fg%...

kareem= 25.9 ppg 5.9 rpg in 86 playoffs....one of those series vs hakeem and rockets,which they lost.....kareem had the energy to jack up shots,just not enough to grab a damn rebound

[TwizteDreamZ]

@shaqpopcorn34 please... kareem is one of the top 5 centers in nba history... not to mention hes the Leagues all time leading scorera and shot around 50%. and kareem was like 36 in those playoffs. in his prime he averaged around 13-17 rpg. and wilt was not overated. sure he has only 2 rings, but this is when the celtics were in their hayday winning 11 titles. and wilt averaged 35-50 ppg while being triple teamed in everygame. and not to mention he led the League in feilg goal percentage 9 times.

[shaqpopcorn34]

@TwizteDreamZ ..the footage clearly shows wilt was NOT tripled every game.....and him shooting so much was a bad thing.....he won 7 scoring titles his first 7 yrs....no rings....then in 67 when he started playing team ball,they won it all...kareem was overrated as well......footage clearly shows that shaq puts them to shame

[TwizteDreamZ]

@shaqpopcorn34 wilt said that after his rookie year that he might retire because he was sick of being double teamed and triple teamed. And the Warriors coach said that they did not have a second scoring option to ease the presure from wilt. and kareem leads the nba in scoring and has 6 rings and 4 mvps or something. How is that overated? and for shaq, if u were 7'1 and 325 pounds, you would average 25 too

[mufcrulz]

my top 12: 1. jordan (indisputable) 2. kareem (great peak, great longevity, great player) 3. magic (only ahead of bird because he played longer) 4. bird (my favourite player) 5. duncan (underrated) 6. hakeem (maybe the best 2-way center) 7. shaq (most dominant player of modern era) 8. russell (greatest defender and teammate ever) 9. west (many playoff heroics) 10. wilt (most dominant ever but had a few flaws) 11. kobe (overrated but still great) 12. oscar (a little overrated too)

[ryanr20091]

@mufcrulz OSCAR DID AVERAGE A TRIPLE DOUBLE SOMETHING THAT IS AN INCREDIBLE FEAT . THE REASON WHY I GIVE KAREEM THE NOD IS BECAUSE HES A BIG MAN AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE A BIG MANS GAME . JORDAN IS GREAT AND THE BEST GUARD EVER BUT BIG MEN ARE MORE CRUCIAL TO A TEAM SUCCESS. THIS IS WHY THE HEAT LOST BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO BIG MAN HELL LUC LONGELY IS BETTER THAN JOEL ANTHONY

[ZipperZappleZ]

@mufcrulz those are the guys, the order is pointless. They gotta play together on the court tho, so there'd be epic battles for starting job at every position.

Problems though. Most people only ever saw Julius Erving when he was a old man in the NBA. Us lucky few guys that saw him play in the ABA got to have him on that All-Time team.

And Connie Hawkins if anything was even better than Dr. J.

Appalling as it is to have to say this, Duncan & Shaq are cut to make room. Too many Centers.

[1776freedom]

Simmons was not born yet when Russ and Wilt played. You had to witness their great match ups. They had to stop one game in Boston Garden for 30 minutes to replace a cracked rim during a game in the 60's. It was a Sixers - Celtics battle. I remember watching it on the ABC game of the week. Chris Schenkel and Jack Twyman were broadcasting.

[mufcrulz]

maybe u missed that i said they were inflated by his minutes? as a general rule - the more minutes you play, the more points, rebounds etc you are going to get! wilt averaged 45.8 mpg for his career which is the most all time by a considerable margin. if u judge wilts points per minutes played he isnt even the best scorer of his era. both baylor and west were both higher points per minute scorers. and the game being faster during the 60s = more possssions per game = more chances to score...

[stere0brain]

@stnd456 you been reading Bill Simmons and believing he was telling the TRUTH shame on you

[mufcrulz]

@stere0brain lmao i was reading the russ vs wilt section in simmons book of bball about 5 mins ago and found it ludicrous that he believes their teamates were equally talented. he examples baylor and west as 2 great hall of famers wilt played with but fails to mention they were both at the end of their careers. russ had cousy, sharman, heinsohn and ramsey in his early years and they were seamlessly replaced with sam jones and hondo. yes russ was a better teamate and a more fierce competitior but

[mufcrulz]

@stere0brain wilt was a far more dominant player. defensively, you could maybe give an edge to russell but offensively it wasnt even close. plus russ had the 2nd greatest coach of all time. wilt is without doubt overrated by many who are in awe at his numbers(which are inflated by his mpg). he was more concerned with his own stats over winning and often failed in game 7s and in crunch time. but for simmons to say russell didnt have the clearly superior teamates is just plain wrong.

[stere0brain]

@mufcrulz Baylor played like 65 games his last 3 years.... not enough for a full season. His knees were long gone and he refused to leave.

As far as inflated numbers? Maybe for rebounding because the game was so much faster. But in scoring they're actually not.

Check out scoring leaders for his era, they got the same numbers as any other era, 70s, 80s, all the way up to now. 28 to 35 ppg is league leader every year - except for Wilt.

google 1962 nba season basketball reference to see facts

[ryanr20091]

@mufcrulz YEAH BUT DEFENSE WINS TITLES AND WHICH IS WHY BILL WAS THE VICTOR AND ITS NOT LIKE WILT WAS PLAYING WITH STIFFS EITHER

[mufcrulz]

@ryanr20091 when judging a players ability, great offense beats great defense every time. magic and larry were both mediocre defensively but their amazing offense gets them into top 10 all time lists. dikembe mutombos defence was great but he was a mediocre offensive player and consequently isnt considered a top 100 hundred player. In russells case, his intangibles make up for his mediocre offence

[ryanr20091]

@mufcrulz DIKEMEBE IS A ONE DIMENSIONAL PLAYER BILL WASNT BILL IS A BETTER ALL AROUD PLAYER THAN YOU IMPLIED . HIS OFFENSIVE GAME WASNT MEDIOCRE IT WAS SOLID IS A MORE BEFITTING TITLE .HE DID JUST ENOUGH ON OFFENSE AND HIS OVERALL IMPACT ON HIS TEAM WAS INFECTIOUS .. HE ELEVATED HIS TEAMMATES TO 11 TITLES AND SOMETHING WILT CAN ONLY DREAM ABOUT AND HE HAD TEMMATES SO DONT GIVE ME THE SUPPORTING CAST OR LACK THEREOF STATEMENT . JERRY WEST IS BETTER THAN KOBE TO ME . WILT CANT TOUCH BILL

[mufcrulz]

@ryanr20091 lmfao i agree with everything with you are saying dude!! i have russ ahead of wilt and west ahead of kobe on my list too. like i said his great all round team play and intangible greatness make up for his limited offense (his offense was medicore compared to other great players - this is an undeniable fact). and i was using the mutombo example to show you that offense is more important than defence. Im not in any way suggesting he is any where near russell as a player.

[ryanr20091]

@mufcrulz WHERE DO YOU HAVE KAREEM I GOT HIM AS THE BEST CENTER AND PLAYER OVER JORDAN NUMBER 2 . HIS COLLEGIATE CAREER INCLUDED AND HIGHSCHOOL KAREEM WAS THE MOST UNSTOPPABLE FORCE NOT WILT BECAUSE HE DIDNT HAVE THE SKY HOOK LIKE KARREM AND DD NOT HAVE 6MVPS.

[mufcrulz]

@ryanr20091 ...just to clarify, when i say magic played longer i mean he had a longer peak.

[ZipperZappleZ]

@ryanr20091 Line up the Warriors and the Celtics & see facts. Celtics Cousy, Heinsohn, KC Jones, Frank Ramsay, Russell - Starting 5 Hall of Fame 6th man Sam Jones Hof 7th man Satch Sanders Hof Red Auerbach HoF coach Warriors Arizin 37 year old HoF in his last season (picture Shaq's last leg) Gola HoF Chamberlain HoF Meschery - rookie Guy Rodgers - 35% shooter Coach McGuire - 1 season in NBA Except for Gola, THOSE ARE STIFFS. Playing against the most stacked team in the history of basketball.

[ryanr20091]

@ZipperZappleZ wilt was more focused on himself than using his team and he had talent , especially during his phillly and los angeles years. i dont execpt excuses you stop worrying about stats and win the damn ball game and dont be a selfish player

[ZipperZappleZ]

@ryanr20091 uh huh how old are you like 12 nobody who watched basketball longer than a week believes that crap

[ryanr20091]

@ZipperZappleZ also dont bother telling me what to do you are wasting your time i do what the hell i want boy

[ZipperZappleZ]

@ryanr20091 Go talk your crap somewhere else.

Wilt played with stiffs and anybody who knows basketball knows that fact.

[AMilitantAgnostic]

@ZipperZappleZ Stiffs,, Jerry West, Elgen Baylor.... Yeah stiffs...

[ZipperZappleZ]

@AMilitantAgnostic oh gosh no...... we were talking about the Warriors - NOT the Lakers!!

But even Baylor.... he was toast by the time Chamberlain went out to LA. He had a good regular season in 69 but in the Finals he was a total shambles. Same thing in '70, he just stood in the corner & nobody even bothered to guard him. He played about 20 games or so the next 2 seasons before they finally forced him off the payroll.

But West? Oh yeah all-time elite

[shaqpopcorn34]

@ZipperZappleZ ...yea...wilt played with stiffs...lmaooo...

i like how wilts teammate jerry west had 42 pts 13 rbs 12 assists in game 7 of the 1969 nba finals and wilt STILL lost....and dont talk about the 4th quarter injury either...

lakers were down by 9 pts when wilt came out.....they lost by 2....after wilt left with a boo-boo and did not return,lakers outscored the celtics by 7 pts to get back in it....west averaged 37.9 ppg in the series,but lost thanks to wilts choking...vintage wilt

[ZipperZappleZ]

@shaqpopcorn34 u confuse what i said about warriors stiffs with 10 years later Lakers

you mean the injury that ruined his knee? the knee that lasted just 9 games after an off-season of rest & he had to have 1960s surgery on it?

oh ya mel counts 2 points in those 5 minutes - - that's really torching the celtics...

33 yr old Wilt had 18pts 27rbs with 5 minutes to go before he fell

point blank who made Logo furious when he found out? who got fired for not putting WC back in the game?

[ZipperZappleZ]

@shaqpopcorn34 oh and btw... who did Don Nelson - yeah that's right, the future NBA coach - who did he beat on that last shot ?

Question: Why did Jerry West turn his back on the ball when Havlicek had it?

Who did Nellie shoot over? Elgin Baylor & your buddy Mel Counts

Lamest bounce in history went in when a future HoF coach smoked a stiff and shoots over 2 Lakers

[shaqpopcorn34]

@ZipperZappleZ ....LMAOOO.....how about this question...the grand question...

with the lakers up 3-2 in the 1969 nba finals,all the lakers had to do was win and they would be nba champs......SO WHY DID WILT SCORE 2 POINTS?!?!?!...thats correct!!!...with a chance to win the nba championship and retire 35 year old bill russell,why did wilt the choke artist drop a whopping 2 points!!!!....WASNT THE NBA TITLE ON THE LINE??....lmaooo....where was the 100?....he only came 98 pts short of that...LMAOO

[shaqpopcorn34]

@ZipperZappleZ ....how in the hell did wilt allow a 35 year old bill russell to grab 21 rebounds in game 7 of the 1969 nba finals in the last game russell ever played....

wilt= 0-4 in game 7's vs the celtics....IN ALL 4 GAME 7'S,WILT WAS OUTSCORED BY SAM JONES!!!...lmaooo...including the 1962 game 7 when wilt averaged 50.4 ppg in the reg.season....than a whopping 22 pts in that game 7,lower than sam jones and wilts teammate tom meschery....

vintage wilt....WILTING when it matters most...LMAOO

[shaqpopcorn34]

@ZipperZappleZ ...get ready for some wilt humiliation....

game 7's vs celtics....wilt= 0-4 in those games...

1962= wilt had 22 pts...sam jones had 28 pts

1965= wilt had 30 pts...sam jones had 37 pts russell had 15 pts 29 rbs 9 assists in game 7 in 65....overshadowing wilt with ease..

1968= wilt had 14 pts..sam jones had 22 pts...HOME GAME FOR WILT!!..STILL LOST!

1969= wilt had 18 pts..sam jones had 24 pts in his final nba game!!.HOME GAME FOR WILT...STILL LOST!!.wilt= wilts in big games

[shaqpopcorn34]

game 7 of the 1969 nba finals is as simple as that.....

lakers were a -9 with wilt on the court....

lakers were a +7 with wilt off the court...in fewer than 6 minutes....lmaoooo....maybe if wilt got hurt sooner in the game the lakers woulda had a chance...lololololololol

[dantheman9758]

@shaqpopcorn34 OMG RLLY!? IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT WILT FELLA WAS REALLY BAD AT BASKETBALL!

[shaqpopcorn34]

@dantheman9758 ....wilt was just overrated....there is no doubt about it.....i can go inside the numbers....also,footage clearly shows he was overrated....shaq would destroy him

[stere0brain]

@stnd456 Check out how many years Russell played with Top 50 guys. Havlicek 7 Cousy 7 Sharman 5 Sam Jones 12 total: 31 seasons together. How about Wilt? Baylor 4 (Baylor NEVER played a full season with Wilt - his last 3 years combined he played 65 games.. 3 years that don't add up to 1 season) West 5 (again, Wilt missed 69-70... but then Wilt only lined up against Russell 1 year as a Laker) Greer 4 Cunningham 3 (BC broke his arm in the 68 playoffs) Arizin 3 Thurmond 2 Total: 21 seasons

[stere0brain]

@stnd456 Quit reading Simmons.

What does Tom Gola's or Elgin Baylor's All-Star seasons have to do with Wilt when they weren't even on the same team?

Let's see what the truth is.

From 1960-69:

* Wilt’s teammates made All-Star team 14 times; Russell’s, 19 times

* 1 of Wilt’s teammates made the All-NBA First team; Russell, 8 teammates

* 5 of Wilt’s teammates made the All-NBA Second team; Russell, FOURTEEN teammates

* Wilt’s teammates accounted for 17 Hall-of-Fame player-seasons; Russell’s, 47

[stere0brain]

@stnd456 lol uh huh.

look up frazier. reed. bradley. mcadoo. heywood. pettit. marin. hawkins. attles. lucas. west. baylor. imhoff. see what they say about Chamberlain. It don't match up with your idea here, at all. they all said chamberlain was the greatest, by far.

look up what Bird said about him.

How come Russell never got a single offer to play after he retired? How come 13 was still getting NBA contract offers when he was 50 years old?

Supporting casts what a joke. Not even close sorry

[SamuelMoralesJr]

Bill Russell was a little guy in his time. 6'9" 220. Wilt was bigger, but that is the reason why Wilt was better. Bill Russell Offense 9.3, Defense 10, Rebound 9.9, speed 6.9. Wilt Chamberlain offense 9.7, defense 9.6, rebound 9.5. , speed 6.0 Russell was a better overall player, but Wilt was the first mobile big guy center with skill.

[stere0brain]

Who had EIGHT HoF on the same team, on the same court, in the same season? One of the 2 or 3 best guards in the league, Cousy and then Sam Jones; one of the 2 or 3 best forwards, Tommy Heinsohn, the 2nd greatest coach in history, Auerbach; and the best 6th man in history, John Havlicek.

Oh yes... And one of the top 5 all-time defensive guards, KC Jones.

This is like comparing Howard & the Magic with J. Anthony on the Heat..

Anthony's waaaaay better than Howard... right?

[Treemeslave]

@reno93535 interesting.... bill had the better players? bill played with 4 of the top 50 players of all time, wilt played with 6. heres the thing: russell played by his defense. wilt played by his offense. both teams were set to those two players. stats? only stats i need is 11 and 2.

[MrPatmaster7891]

@Treemeslave actually bill played with more than that and wilt less lol

[Treemeslave]

@MrPatmaster7891 well, im going by bill simmons top 50. u should read his book, he explains the russell-wilt arguement well

[stere0brain]

@Treemeslave the difference is simple. The Celtics had all those Hall of Fame players on the same court, at the same time. The typical lies of bill simmons. Chamberlain's Hall of Famers were scattered across 10 years and 3 of them were at the tail end of their careers.

Yeah ok 40 years from now people will say Garnett played with Shaq, he should have won another ring that year. Yeah right!!

Same thing.

Only team as stacked as 60s Celtics? 90s Bulls. Look at point spreads over seasons. Simple.

[Treemeslave]

@reno93535 jerry west also said "with wilt, u cant have him adapt to your game, u have to adapt to his"

in the playoffs he averaged 8 points less, where bill averaged 2 points more, AND 4 more rebounds. wlt stepped down in the playoffs, bill stepped up. and the whole "bill had more help", u have to realize, those last 5 years of his career, he was playing with veterans and a young-but-not-yet-good john havileck. wilt had the players i mentioned while bill lacked superstar players

11-2

[Treemeslave]

hal greer, bil cunningham, chet walker. all with wil on the 67 team, all future hall of famers.then wilt played with jerry west and elign baylor, and only won one with them. no one ever say wilt had no help and bill had all the help. bill wwas better then wilt by a long shot. feel free to disagree

[troutboy55]

Had the NBA kept track of blocked shots,Wilt and Russell would have put those numbers so far out of sight, the nearest player would've been pitifully behind.Their rebound numbers are almost mind boggling, I don't care what era they played in. I loved watching Hakeem play and Nate Thurmond,and Moses Malone had their day but of the top all time centers, only Kareem and a younger Shaq were nearly as dominating except George Mikan in the early days of the NBA.

[postatility]

These were EPIC battles. This is how I got interested in the game. Thanks Russ,thanks Dippy. This changed my life!

[sera7ares]

only Michael Jordan was better than these 2 guys...I still don't know how to rank them, who is 2nd and who is 3rd...i guess it's what u prefer the ultimate team player, or the ultimate individual force

[lennex88]

@Vstrat0 auerbach was the best coach ever.

[1005378]

wow look at the granfather shot clocks at 3:47

[jefffromsc]

@UngratefulLiving420 that is extremely false... wilt was about stats... and he in fact played with more hall of famers than russell as well as basically an equal number of total all stars.. wilt was completely unclutch

[Nickcat5]

@TheEntertainmentonly O.K,If you say so. Over & out!!

[Nickcat5]

@TheEntertainmentonly Russell had a pt avg of 15 ppg,in at least one season he was good for 18. Not bad for a guy not known for scoring. Wilt did lead the league in assists once.. No getting around that Russell was great but Wilt once lead the Lakers to 33 straight victories and a 69-13 record,best until Chicago topped it years later. Watch more highlights & you'll see that Wilt blocked the ball to teammates also. 2 teams for Wlit,68-13 & 69-13 (76ers & Lakers)

[Nickcat5]

Red Auerbach was a Phony as a Person. Easy to not notice when one wins championships. He wouldn't last 20 minutes trying to control todays players. He was a company man thru & thru. Kept the players down in salaries by running the loyalty card on them. He even denied knowing who Connie Hawkins was aa a ball-player when Connie was informally banned by the NBA..

[320jsimpson1]

@Nickcat5 - says" He wouldn't last 20 minutes trying to control todays players." Easy to say now that he's gone! Yeah - he might have a little problem with some of your ADHD behavioral and social problem generational cohorts. Even special education teachers do!

There was no free agency at that time and he developed a tremendous loyalty from all of his players. Nothing wrong with being a good businessman the last I heard.

[Nickcat5]

@320jsimpson1 You said it,there was no free agency,Now try and buck for a raise when you have little to bargain with.

[Nickcat5]

@TheEntertainmentonly Watch some of the 76er films,wilt also blocked to his teamates. It was standard fare to give Russell the credit,for that& not Wilt but if you watch Wilt did it also.

[cheetoman33]

Wilt was about records, Bill bout winning, enough said.

[UngratefulLiving420]

@cheetoman33 I think Wilt was about winning too...his team just wasn't as good as the Celtics.

[Afroman015]

@TheEntertainmentonly Chamberlain and Russell were 2 completely different players. Bill was the ultimate teammate and Wilt was Goliath. To compare them based on individual talent is ridiculous because Wilt was simply too strong, big athletic and skilled for Bill. Russell knew how to win and he will forever be remember as having the highest basketball IQ the game has ever seen. However, Wilt would have had equal success in Boston (team-player or not) because he was so immensely talented

[Afroman015]

@TheEntertainmentonly In the playoffs, Wilt's teammates routinely shot under 40%, until he got to LA (when he was past his prime) which is absurdly low. With a force like Chamberlain in the middle, his teammates had open looks (much like the effect Shaq had on the Laker team that won 3-straight) but could not make them count. As a result, he took all the shots. Had he played with Havilcek, Cousy and the rest of the Celtics greats, Wilt's game would've been much different.

[Nickcat5]

@Afroman015 Auerbach didn't even want Cousy,He was 'stuck' with him.

[Afroman015]

@Nickcat5 lol why does that matter? Besides, getting "stuck" with a Hall of Famer isn't a bad thing

[Afroman015]

@TheEntertainmentonly First of all, Jamal Mashburn's career is irrelevant and if he had been able to stay healthy during the course of his career, he WOULD be in the HOF, had he been on a team with other contributors. But anyway, Wilt's game was result of being, more often then not, the focal point of the offense and if he shared the ball any more than he did, they wouldn't have ever won games.

[Afroman015]

@TheEntertainmentonly In the 1967-68 season, Wilt led the league in rebounds, assists, field goal percentage and was 3rd in scoring (the highest anyone has ever ranked in the 3 major categories for a single season). Chamberlain was also elected to the All-NBA 1st-Team 7 times, while Russell was only elected 3 times. Russell was good, definitely a legend, but when you see the cards he was dealt and then look at Chamberlain's situation, it becomes blatantly obvious why they could not be compared.

[Afroman015]

@TheEntertainmentonly Wilt hardly ever played at 100%. Only when he was challenged by critics who said he couldn't pass (he then went on to lead the league in assists and become the only center in history to do so) or when they said he and Russell were evenly matched rebounders (Chamberlain set the all-time record for rebounds in a game with 55 in a game AGAINST Russell just days after critics claimed they were equals)

[Afroman015]

@TheEntertainmentonly In 1969, the Lakers had big names, but they were all over 30 and past their prime. The Celtics had just as many (if not more) big names. They also had Auerbach and the benefit of having a team that had been playing together for the last decade. Now if you want to talk about individual talent then I really can't see how you can argue that Russell was a better player. You don't seem to understand what Chamberlain was capable of when he tried....

[Afroman015]

@TheEntertainmentonly The 2 years that Wilt played with Arizin, Paul was an aged veteran and they had NO other notable players on their team. After Arizin retired, Thurmond was drafted and played 2 seasons with Wilt but the team STILL had no one else. Nate skipped town then Billy Cunningham was drafted and Hal Greer was added. The following year the Sixers had a good team for the first time in Wilt's career and they won the finals.

[Afroman015]

what's kind of ridiculous is that Russell is even considered Chamberlain's rival. Just stop and think for a second how different history would be if Chamberlain had been in Russell's shoes and played with Havilcek, Cousy, Heisohn and all the other Hall of Famers with the Celtics. Wilt would have been MVP even season of his career and the Celtics would have destroyed even team they faced. It was never Chamberlain versus Russell: it was Chamberlain versus the Celtics

[SamuelMoralesJr]

@Afroman015 Wilt, and Russell had different styles of play. Russell was a full court player that created defensive stoppage, and initiated the fast break. Russell was a superior team defender, not just one on one defender. He would help defend when called upon on certain person. Wilt was much more of a half court player, and hanged around the paint a lot more. Bill Russell played the full game better. Not true either that Wilt didn't have any help. He had good players. Bill clutch, Wilt not.

[Afroman015]

@TheEntertainmentonly true that he had a great basketball mind but that doesnt mean he had the physical talent to be as good as either of those three. Pau Gasol is considered the most intelligent player with the highest basketball IQ in the game right now, but I seriously doubt anyone would call him the best player in the league

[kerpal3]

what year is this

[AtEchoOff]

Without John Havlicek, Tom Heinsohn, Sam Jones, and Willie Naulls the Celtics would haven't even made the playoffs! But you could say the same about Bill. That's what I think was great about the Celtics when Russell played. Everybody on the team complimented everybody. Everyone knew their role and how to play it. That's why they won and won time after time during their glory days.

[sbkap1]

All Wilt cared about was stats. Wilt had just as good a supporting cast. You do not know what you are talking about. One cared about the team and winning, the other cared about getting his.

[IMDavid1990]

Why did white people talk so stupid? Don't get me wrong I'm white, but when you hear them both speak, the white guy just sounds like an idiot.

[gringo78586]

hell wilt OWNED bill russell. he once got 55 rebounds in one game against??? you guessed it bill russell. IF WILT HAD THE SUPPORTING CAST RUSSELL HAD, HE WOULD NEVER HAVE LOST A CHAMPIONSHIP. don't be stupid...........wilt OWNED russell. and averaged one year over 50 points a game against all the centers in the nba. belie dat!

[arther1045]

wilt did have a great supporting cast most of his career and he only won 2 titles. he left a phila team in 1968 that had the 2nd best record in the league without him. he went to a laker team that played in the finals the year before..wilt was a better individual player then russell. russell was a better 5 on 5 player then wilt..basketball is a 5 on 5 game. its a myth that wilt wasn't surrounded by great talent.

[blackezi3]

Exactly, Bill Russell and Jordan were in a class of their own. Ultimate winners and leaders. Both knew when and how they were going to win.

Its funny cause the both are harshly criticized, mostly because of jealousy. "Wilt is better than Russell", "Kobe/Lebron is better than Jordan"

But no one is as great or more complete a player than Jordan and Russell

[dahoss65]

Russell was not a complete player. In order to be a complete player, you must be a scorer too. Russell was not a big scorer, therefore, he wasnt a compele player, as was Jordan.

[WiltatKansas]

Jordan was complete but Wilt had better stats and Russell more championships, THAT'S A FACT. I like Jordan but all you Jordan freaks suck!

[WiltatKansas]

Both you are simply stupid faggots, Wilt is the best individual lpayer of all time, Russell colective and Jordan a mix of the both.

[965567greg]

Wilt, russel, and Shaq, Kareem, Olajuwon are in there own class when it comes to centers....

[ExplosiveThinMan]

Wilt fans can bring up his stats all they want all his great scoring #. Funny thing is that it wasnt until Wilt was talked into sacraficing his offense for the rest of the team that they beat Boston. He was playing defense and rebounding that year his scoring went way down for the team.

The most impressive stat of all is Bill Russell`s 11 Titles in 13 years. Plus two in College and the Olympic games.

Russell was the best player on the best team his whole career minus 2 seasons.

[tuzwol]

Wilt scored alot because he was asked too,thats why averaged 50ppg because his coach Frank Mcguire asked him too,when he was asked to average less he did it,he followed his coach's orders.He played defense and rebounded every year in the league,even when he was scoring alot he was still rebounding and and playing defense.You make it sound as if he just started rebounding and playing defense the year in which he won his first ring.lol.

[tuzwol]

The most impressive stat is averaging over 48 minutes per game and averaging 50ppg and 27reb. Russell was the best player on his team,just because you win rings dont make you better.Wilt was better than Russell in every way.Russell just played with 9 hall of famers thats all

[tuzwol]

Elgin Baylor,Jerry West,and Oscar Roberston and Wilt Chamberlain were arguably better than Bill Rusell

[SamuelMoralesJr]

@tuzwol That's funny, because Bill Russell shut down Elgin Baylor in game 7 1962 finals. Bill Russell was overall better than all of them in my opinion.

[ddenuci]

Wilt looks expressionless until the host mentions "Bill Russell" at 0:09. Then Wilt looks like he is licking his chops. In what might be the only time Wilt ever underestimates himself, he says "... handle myself with ALMOST anyone in the League". The truth is there was no one who could handle him. Not sure when the interview with Wilt (e.g., at 2:27) took place but it was almost certainly during the period of time when he and Russell weren't on speaking terms. He mellowed out a little later.

[WiltatKansas]

1959, just before beginf the 1959/60 before the summer when he went to Russia to play an exhibition game with the globbies. I think gingo uploaded the is interview entire, check out his channel. I also uploaded this complete interview but in spanish ;)

[WiltatKansas]

Sorry, i was talking about the first interview. The interview that you are talking about i don't know exactly when it took place but it was sure around the "A view from above" period, 1991, because he already hadn't the goatee.

[ddenuci]

That's an impressive dunk by Wilt at 3:27. He's quite a bit away from the basket, but he just turns, jumps, stretches and manages to dunk. That's probably one of the earliest "alley-oops" on record at 3:39, and it's not even intentional.

[redfanrod]

Auerbach: "Wilt was concerned primarily with his stats..." This is such crap. Auerbach, I don't me to step on your grave, but shut up. Wilt wanted to win as much as Russell and just had a crappier surrounding core. If Auerbach had coached Wilt with that supporting cast in Boston, the Celts would have won the same (if not more) titles...

[ddenuci]

red: Perhaps early in his career, it might be true that Wilt was concerned with the stats. But clearly, by the time he became a 76er, he was willing to forego the scoring to do whatever it took for his team to win. And by the time he was a Laker, he took this team concept to a new level. He was the consummate team player.

[arther1045]

i am a Wilt fan but Red was correct.. Wilt was stats obsessed. He was obsessed with no fouling out of a game and it hurt his game. He was obsessed with leading the league in assists in 1968, he told everyone he would before the season..People at the time said he would avoid easy dunks and outlet passes so he had a chance at more assists..

Wilt was a better individual basketball player then Russell, but Russell ws a better 5 on 5 player..Basketball is a 5 on 5 sport.

[tuzwol]

I disagree.Wilt was asked to score alot by his coaches.He wasnt obsessed with not fouling out,he played defense every single night and averaged at least 10 blocks per game,him never fouling out never hurt his game. He wasnt obsessed with leading the league in assist,he just went out and did it. He never passed up easy dunks and outlet passes,he was a team player who shared the ball,the coaches asked him to shoot less so he got his teammates more involved

[arther1045]

you need to study up on this. Wilt was obsessed with not fouling out and backed away when he got in foul trouble.

He was tottaly obsessed with leading the loeague in assists, he told everyone before the season and even his teammates said he was obsessed with it and it hurt the team. Check out the video they show on classic sometimes.

[tuzwol]

You need to study up on this,Wilt wasnt obsessed and he didnt back away.He averaged 10 blocks per game,he had a game where he blocked over 20 shots in 1 game,he was 7'1 with long arms and quick feet. He wasnt obsessed with leading the league in assists. He averaged the same amount of assists when his team won the championship,so you make no sense.Saying you're going to do something doesnt mean you are obsessed with it

[tuzwol]

Only detractors of Wilt would say something foolish like leading the league in assists was selfish.

[arther1045]

many say it..once again watch the bio of Wilt on classic. It was obvious that Wilt set aanother indidual stat, and it was all that mattererd to him. By the way, the year he lead the league in assists his team lost to the Celtics and Wilt had a better supporting cast then Russell.

[tuzwol]

Wilt never had a better supporting cast than Russell.The year he led the league in assists he averaged 8.6,the year he won the championship he averaged 7.8 assists,wow, big difference.Philly lost because of key injuries,and Wilt's supporting cast shot horrible in that game 7

[tuzwol]

What you're saying isnt true. Wilt averaged 21ppg,32reb,10asst against Bill Russell in the 67 playoffs enroute to his first championship,so him passing hepled his team. WIlt once had at least 20 assists in a game. Even when Wilt shares the ball more his detractors get on him for it,lol,"no one roots for goliath"

[arther1045]

why bring up one series to make a point. In 1968 Wilt's obsession with leading the league in assists hurt his team .Period.Its selofigh to make a silly goal like that.

[tuzwol]

Because Wilt's team won that series,and Wilt was averaging 10 assists per game,so it helped his team not hurt it,thats my point.He wasnt obsessed,he averaged the same amount of assists when he won his first championship,he just wanted to continue sharing the ball.

[tuzwol]

It aint selfish,its called sharing the ball. DIshing out assists isnt selfish,learn about the game of basketball before you comment please,passing the ball isnt selfish

[arther1045]

aint selfish,its called sharing the ball. DIshing out assists isnt selfish,learn about the game of basketball before you comment please,passing the ball isnt selfish

Dud I don't want to get into on of these dumb internet debates. If you don't know that setting goals of leading the league in assists and then going out of the way to achieve it is a selfish act then i give up on you.

[tuzwol]

It isnt selfish,no one knows if they will lead the league in assists.He didnt go out of his way.Look at John Stockton he wanted to lead the league in assists for all those years and the Jazz wanted him to do it.I can call that selfish also.Stockton always had the ball,there wasnt that much ball movement on the Jazz,once Stockton passed it,his teammate more than likely shot.

[tuzwol]

Wilt would've won another championship,if key players on Philly didnt get injured and if his supporting cast didnt shoot bricks from the court.You make no sense.Wilt sharing the ball wasnt selfish and it didnt cost his team games.You sound like another Wilt hater who doesnt know the facts. The year he won his first championship he averaged 10 assists against Bill Russell,I guess that was selfish too.LOL.

[tuzwol]

So I guess Magic Johnson was selfish,John Stockton was selfish,I guess Jason Kidd is selfish to,because when he is on fastbreaks he'll pass up an easy lay-up in order to pass the ball and get an assist,Steve Nash is selfish then also,because instead of laying it up,he'll kick it out to a teammate for a long jump shot

[arther1045]

Obviously you can grasp the debate. The guards you mentioned never went around telling everyone they were going to lead the league in assists. And they did change their game to do it, which was very obvious in ilt's case.

[tuzwol]

yeah,yeah.A center has never done that before,a guard is supposed to lead the league in assists,so it would make no sense for them to go around and saying it

[tuzwol]

Wilt was a better 5 on 5 player and a better individual player.Russell had a better team,he played with 8 or 9 hall of famers,he took advantage of the situation.If you play with 8 or 9 hall of famers throughout your career you should have alot of rings. Russell's last year he averaged 9.9ppg and the Celtics still won,when your superstar can average 9.9ppg and you still win a championship,that means you have one hell of a team.If Russell played on Wilt's team he would've never won 11 rings

[SamuelMoralesJr]

@tuzwol no he wasn't.

[tuzwol]

@SamuelMoralesJr ,Yes Wilt was a better baller,just because you win more rings dont make you a better basketball player. The media has brain washed people too much.Yeah Russell has 11 rings and Wilt has 2,but this isnt a 1 on 1 sport, this is a team sport. And the fact remains that Russell played with 8 or 9 hall famers, you cant run from that fact

[ExplosiveThinMan]

Everything you said is correct. They dont want to believe it. Wilt was passing up dunks to get an assist. He did it to prove to the writers he could pass.

Your not supposed to say "im going to pass today. Or Im going to score today." Take it play by play and react to how the defense plays you.

Wilt was always more concerned about his image. More so than winning.

[tuzwol]

@ExplosiveThinMan,no he wasnt passing up dunks. Say what you want, but he led the league in assists. The year he won the ring he averaged 7.8 assists and the next year it was 8.6, wow,thats a huge difference

[tuzwol]

@ExplosiveThinMan ,he didnt have to prove to the writers,he did it to help his team win. Did you ever hear Wilt say,he did it so he could lead the league, or did you hear it from somebody, you're going off of what somebody else said about Wilt.