Re: Quran and The Speed of Light?

[81theace]

“And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind…” (Quran 57:25)

[81theace]

After you look at that extremely precise depiction of the steps of creating the universe, if you then want to explore the depiction in the Quran of many sub-steps that fit in under those steps, you can still do so.

Quran states that Iron was sent down to earth from the sky!Modern science now clearly states that the amount of energy required to form iron the way it is found on earth exceeds the energy in our own solar system.The source of iron as it exists,is from meteors.Another coincidence?

[silveren777]

@81theace

There are many things which were sent down according to the Quran, including garnments and cattle. will you believe they fell litteraly from space?

So as you can see, it's easy to reinterpret metaphor as litteral statement when it's "convenient", but there is no miracle in doing so.

[81theace]

@silveren777

I just noticed that my other questions have been labelled as spam for some reason, could that happen to be because you could not respond to them? and only the comment about the miracle of Iron remained there, fair enough!!

You need to be both well informed as well as able to comprehend the Arabic language before you make a statement like the one you have. The mention of "cattle" that you are referring to presumably refers to the word "dawab" which literally means beings that

[81theace]

@silveren777

You need to be both well informed as well as able to comprehend the Arabic language before you make a statement like the one you have. The mention of "cattle" that you're referring to presumably refers to the word "dawab" which literally means beings that tread on hard surfaces.

The Quran states those beings were created and spread out through earth and space, and that God would enable them meeting one another if He wishes. In science that is known as the theory of pan-spermia.

[silveren777]

@81theace

The Quran mention that cattle fall from space, it doesn't say their fundamental component do.

You couldn't say quranically some things were sent fully-formed (like iron) but others not fully-formed, that's again a selective interpretation.

So, the simplest interpretation would be that cattle were created fully formed on space... just like garnments...

Thus, there isn't a specific coindicence, this is just a mere allegorical/litteral ambiguity of interpretation.

[81theace]

@silveren777

42:29 From among His signs is the creation of 

the heavens and the earth, and the

creatures He spreads in them. He is able

to gather them , if He wills.

[81theace]

Maybe ask a physicist about this or research it yourself, the remarkable thing about mentioning iron is due to the fact that elements need different amounts of energy in order to be formed from fusion of atoms, iron would have needed a lot more energy than our solar system harbours.

[silveren777]

@81theace

All elements heavier than oxygen were mainly fall on the Earth created by supernovae, iron isn't the only one.

[81theace]

@silveren777

The discussion here is the origins of the elements as we find them here on planet earth.

i,e I agree, Oxygen and heavier elements can originate from supernova. However, Oxygen on earth certainly did not originate from supernovas, in fact Oxygen originated from earth itself; look up "Oxygen Catastrophe" which is a distinct stage in our planet's history.

The question here is the origin of elements on earth and NOT how elements form in general. Research "origin of earth"

[silveren777]

@81theace

You're confusing the molecule of dioxygen (O2) and the element oxygen itself.

What cyanobacteria produce through the mechanism of photosynthesis from water (H2O) and carbon dioxyde (CO2) is dioxygen, but this implies the prior presence of oxygen element, which came from supernovae.

[81theace]

@silveren777

I am not confusing that, but if you are to look at the origins of atoms that way, this discussion becomes obsolete because all atoms apart from hydrogen, helium and lithium were subsequently created in stars.

In astronomy, a "metal" is any element other than hydrogen, helium or lithium. This distinction is significant because hydrogen and helium (together with trace amounts of lithium) are the only elements that occur naturally without the nuclear fusion activity of stars.

[81theace]

@silveren777

Earth's initial structure had lot of those elements that were synthesized in stars (otherwise it wouldn't have formed as a planet) in fact iron constitutes about 35% of the Earth's mass (inner + outer core and crust)

The point about Iron as such is that subsequent to the initial formation of earth, and a considerable period of time after the formation of Earth, meteros resulted in metallic iron being found as we know it on the crust (in contrast to iron that was initially there)

[silveren777]

@81theace

Not wrong! But for instance nickel has also this double origin (from Earth crust and meteoritic)

[81theace]

@silveren777

The verses were relating to the uses of that elemental iron rather than the oxidized form, the astounding thing here is the specificity and choice of words "sent down" rather than any other word. You have to remember, this is more than 1400 years ago, it is pitched at different levels. Once something was mentioned, the choice of words was flawless.

What's ur take on the other verses (now flagged as spam?!) pertaining to the big bang, expansion of the universe, big crunch etc..

[silveren777]

@81theace

That's not a clear statement, since the verb 'sent down' can and has been understood metaphorically by classical exegetes. We can't say the litteral interpretation is intended by the Quran just because it's confirmed by Science, otherwise that'd amount to begging the question.

As for the allusion to the phenomena you talk about, they rely on the same trick: a posteriori selective interpretation.

[81theace]

@silveren777

The "Oxygen Catastrophe" resulted in oxidization of metals (including Iron) on earth, subsequent to that Iron was "sent down" (Meteor origin) this is of course after Earth was a planet.

Metallic iron is rarely found on the surface of the earth because it tends to oxidize, but its oxides are pervasive and represent the primary ores.

Although rare, iron meteorites are the main form of natural metallic iron on the Earth's surface. i.e unique to being "sent down" down the track

[81theace]

@silveren777

I do not think that is a "convenient" interpretation.

The references made in the Quran are way too specific to be coincidental.

I do appreciate that reading some of the english translations can be misleading as opposed to the Arabic Quran. (I am bilingual by birth and can detect discrepancies when Quran is translated)

[mqintach]

@Glorthac

With all due respect, I'm actually shock when u said u r a christian. U seem like a very wise/intelligent man when u did all the research about slam. Out of these 3 (christian/jew/pagan), christian is the last one i think of u. i really tot u are pagan.but if am gonna argue with everything in the bible or Koran, it will take forever, so just cont with ur research.I know that u must hv a very good reason to urself why u believe in Christianity just like when i believe in Islam.

[mqintach]

@Glorthac alrite then,I will consider it but it's not a promise since my faith isn't relying on what others mistakes.If da fact about those number of 19 is true,I won't aspect u to be a muslim as well becoz u cant be a muslim just because only certain part is correct.U must take it as a whole U can be 100% honest wif me whn givin me ur opinion coz, just like i said, i'm a muslim but not a blind 1. I will not block my brain just becoz i am a muslim.I guess this fact'll make ur job much easier

[mqintach]

Hey...I heard that the miracles of Kaaba is also a mistakes. can someone experts with math explain that to me? I mean experts in math without any hatred against Islam. So that I will have an honest answer. The miracle of number 19 in Quran has been proved by Muslim scholar. usually i will believe in it blindly since it has been proved by an experts...but, i dono. I just wanna heard from what scientologist have to say about it. can someone??? plsss

[mqintach]

I am a muslim but I am not blindly trust wat other muslim says and thank u for reveal da truth. errr, i hope it is the truth. I hate math.So i don understand any side of these explanations. So I do not know which one is the truth. Since i am so stupid.I will only believe all the facts brought out and proved by Muslim scholar/experts. this video above seem the right one (I dono) if it really the right one.congrats then and good job.Can you reveal the real fact behind da miracle city of mecca pls?

[Glorthac]

Hello friend. If you would like, I will look into the supposed miracles of the Kaaba and the number 19, and make a video about my research. It will take me a week or two to do the proper research, but if you are willing to wait, I can make a video for you. I will send the video to you after I am finished.

[Klingschor]

It never ceases to amaze me that Moslems can make such stupid claims..

[BOSKEEEEEEEEE]

God bless you!

[obaeyens]

So conclusion in order to have moon travelling one lightyear distance, at a speed of 3682.8 km/h you would need ly/(v3*EarthYear*24)= (1.09501*10^11/(3682.8*365.256­363004*24) )= 3388.68 years.

And this indicates 3388.68 years * 365.256363004 days per year / 29.53059 days per lunar month = 41913.7 lunar months needed to travel one lightyear distance.

[obaeyens]

I did some more calculations.

First 1000 years = 12368.7 Lunar months. Not 12000!

Moon has an ellipse of 363104 km by 405696 km, so the Circumference = 2.417110031733*10^6 km covered in 27.321582 days.

Average speed is= 3686.2 km/h

Distance travelled in 1000 years = 3686.2*((365.256363004*24)*100­0)=3.23138*10^10 km

Lightspeed=1.09501*10^11 which is 3.38868 times bigger.

[hany6432]

@obaeyens 1000 years actually = 12000 lunar years since god is speaking about 1000 lunar years ("1000 years of what you count")

[obaeyens]

@hany6432

Show me you calculation how you equal 1000 years = 12000 lunar years?

How many days is your lunar year compared to Earth's years?

[hany6432]

@obaeyens i meant 1000 lunar years = 12000 lunar months. that was what was meant by 1000 years of what u count. that is 1000 lunar years, thats what the arabs counted. you say "First 1000 years = 12368 lunar months. which is not true, 1000 years (lunar) = 1200 months (lunar)

[obaeyens]

@hany6432

How long does the moon orbit Earth in days? And how long is one year (365.25)?

Now divide those and see what your number comes up with. ;-)

[hany6432]

@obaeyens "how long is one year": 354.37 days (lunar) :-)

[obaeyens]

@hany6432

Nice one. :-)

[hany6432]

@obaeyens thanks, btw i love ur channel :)

[zzztrrr]

Totally agree with this answer.. the verse interpretation as light speed is definitely wrong.. the speed was not specified and for sure it's not light speed...

[Middleground4]

The distance traveled by light in one Earth Day = C t' = 299792.458 km/sec x 86170.43114 sec = 25833245358 km

The distance traveled by angels = 12000 L' = 12000 x 3682.8 km/hr x 655.71986 hr x cos(26.92952225) = 25836303825 km

By dividing the two distances we get the ratio of 1.00011839267. Difference = 0.01%

Outside gravitational fields: 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day = SPEED OF LIGHT

How would Muhammad (SAWS) know this/

[Glorthac]

I love how Muslims copy and paste without even listening to what I said! Here's a simple question you can't answer.

You wrote "12000 L". L is broken down into several numbers, one which is "3682.8". Where did they get this number? Check the websites, they come to that number from the equation 2πr/t.

However, they give π to the 4th decimal place. My first question you cant answer is: if they gave π to the 5th decimal place, wouldn't that change the final answer?

[11cookeaw1]

@Middleground4 coincedence, there is masse of info in the qu'ran, let's say, 100,000 possible bits of info, then times that my the numebr of scientific number, and yout get a big number

[Middleground4]

Since we are considering 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day in free space (outside the gravitational field of the sun) then we have to remove the effect of sun's gravity on the Earth-moon system:

[slicingwater]

The whole eqaution is wrong, you shouldn't bother wasting your time checking their math, It takes about seconfd for light to reach the moon.

[UnsichtbarerGeist]

The "alpha" doesn`t make any sense in the equation. The distance, the moon travels in a certain time, is simply average speed * time. Its just cheating to make it "fit".

[FraterVit]

We have the snteresting fakt sn The Bible too. Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be seven-fold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

(Isa.30:26). Sinetists say that after 4 bl. years it will be with the sun...

[MrBiblia]

Um....the human will be on camel, which would shorten the distance by half. ;-)

[maroqand]

well, this video is trying to proof something which is false. this man just youtube fan or regular youtube watcher who sucks his finger, he is not scientist.

[Glorthac]

Can you show me 1 mistake in my math?

[maroqand]

here is detailed calculation for dumb:

speed-light . info

[Glorthac]

I know, I used that site to find the mistakes in the video. So I ask again, show me 1 mistake in my math.

[dfanyc]

AGAIN: go deep into that site, go to forum section: all answers are already there: oh may be you don't know how calculate or you don't know math & physic law?

learn about calculation and then ask again again again ok?

[Glorthac]

Go figure you can't show me 1 mistake.

[6Untitled9]

@Glorthac

The claim: Light, ( that is to say Angels), travels in one day, the same distance covered by 12,000 lunar orbits.

The distance covered by one lunar orbit can be found simply by using the formula to describe the circumference of a circle:

Lunar orbital circumference = π • 2r (where r = radius of Moons orbit = 284,403 km )

So. speed of angels per day = 12,000 ( π • 2r ) divide by 86400 for km/s

[Glorthac]

Your math is even more laughable! Plug in your math, and you get 248,188.4376 km/s, which is nowhere near 299,792.458 km/s (the speed of light).

[6Untitled9]

@Glorthac

That's my whole point and you did the math yourself.

The claim, that the speed of light is related to the distance travelled by the moon, is entirely bogus.

[6Untitled9]

As a matter of fact. On reading 32:5, I'd say that your entire interpretation of the verse is inappropriate.

It doesn't mention the Moon, there's no reference to light, angels or distance.

[Glorthac]

Ah, I thought you were a Muslim trying to support the original videos claims (I hope you realize my video is refuting the Muslim who made the original video)!

[6Untitled9]

@Glorthac

Oh dear, my mistake, I'm sorry. I thought I was responding to the original video.

I'll put my response in the more appropriate place at once. If I can, (comment pending approval seems to be the most popular accessory to this particular video clip).

[slicingwater]

Thats a 17.21% error, in Engineering thats enough to get someone killed.

[adnanhassan263]

@slicingwater

17.21% error how?

i calculated 2% error only by this.

[slicingwater]

Radius ? All heavenly bodies travel in an eliptical orbit, There wouldn't be any constant radius.

[obaeyens]

@6Untitled

"Lunar orbital circumference = π • 2r (where r = radius of Moons orbit = 284,403 km)"

Wrong, the moon's orbit is between 363,104 km and 405,696 km so Semi-major axis 384,399 km

[AlRasuwl]

The maths in this miracle claim are obviously fraudulent, and the formula in error.

watch?v=1of4D9Xi42I

It's just a cheap trick to make you believe there are miracles in the Quran. My video explains the trickery involved in this miracle claim.

[Escapification]

i was going to post a video reply to quran and speed of light, but seems like you already took care of that. thanks.

[davidpwithun]

Great video!

but...

You forgot to mention something very important: Muhammad is (once again, as he often does) regurgitating what he learned from the Christians:

"But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." - 2 Peter 3:8

[maroqand]

(2Peter 3:8) But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, AND A THOUSAND YEARS ARE LIKE A DAY. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Obviously this verse is talking about God's patience, but some Christians say that it predated the scientific miracles of the Quran.

[Glorthac]

Don't change the topic. We're not here to discuss a passage that is clearly about God's patience only.

[dfanyc]

don't change the method ok? anayway you fail again. no other comments! if you have comments bring here in us national bureau. if you are so smart!

[insanedf]

i love your videos. once again, quran = fail.

[EbeerIglesias]

Not much prooving many people have uploaded reponses but all of them are not prooving same it is, work more!!

[altorstenlinton]

Again excellent video bro....I watched that Islamic video a long time ago and I analyze it too not from a religious view but scientific.