Emerald Bowl - The California Golden Bears Win 24 - 17

[philblunt420]

Fire Randy Shannon, a real coach will return the U to glory

[gymman1031]

Tough schedule or not, if Miami doesn't win 9 or more games in 2009, he should be fired. Yes, Miami has a young team, and yes, they have a tough schedule. But they are still one of the most talented teams in the ACC. Actually, the only team that definitely has a bit more talent than them is Oklahoma.

[philblunt420]

I thought Shannon should have already been gone he's been a good recruiter and was a hell of a defensive coordinator but as a head coach he's been below average.

[gymman1031]

Well, it is true that, before he took over at Miami, Shannon had never been a head coach. In addition, due to Larry Coker's softness and weak recruiting, the program was in worse condition when he took over than people realize. If Coker were still at Miami, they would probably be much worse than they are right now. But, in 2009, the Coker excuses won't work. This is Shannon's team, and his tough, no-nonsense system is in place.

[gymman1031]

Therefore, it SHOULD be 9 or more wins-or-bust for him.

[philblunt420]

Coker only won with Butch Davis's players in my opinion so no argument there.

[gymman1031]

That is very true. But, believe it or not, even if he wasn't great, I think that Coker was better with Xs and Os and game coaching than many people gave him credit for. Right now, I actually can't say Shannon is as good as him in that department.

[philblunt420]

I think he was better than Shannon in that if they had better qb play and didnt have had so many dropped passes Coker might still be there.

[gymman1031]

Nah, I think Coker would have still been gone right now. The only thing Coker had the edge over Shannon in is Xs and Os. Those are very important, but so are recruiting the right type of players and being no-nonsense and having very tough and demanding practices. Shannon is miles better with Coker with those two things.

[philblunt420]

Shannon is a MUCH better recruiter but I tend to think based on watching them play the last couple years that Shannon isn't tough enough on them.

[gymman1031]

Well, we will find out better than ever this season. I do know that his practices are very tough. But, IMHO, the biggest issues are that he inherited a program in bad shape and that he is not a great(at least not yet) game coach. Someone watched this Emerald Bowl game over again and said that he often looked like a deer in headlights.

[philblunt420]

There's been a few games I've seen where I thought Shannon looked lost. He's had a few seasons and if he doesn't become a good game coach I dont know if he ever will.

[gymman1031]

This will be his third season has head coach. So, excuses about him not having enough head coaching experience won't be valid for much longer, if at all.

[philblunt420]

If he were coaching at a lesser program then he might be able to use that but not at the u. I felt disappointed when Coker went 9-3 now I'd sign up for that.

[gymman1031]

Did you know that Coker is now the head coach at Texas-San Antonio. I wish him the best. And, I think he might do well:

1. He has head coaching experience.

2. He won't have to go after bluechippers to be successful, and there is plenty of talent at all levels at Texas.

3. He is better with Xs and Os than people give him credit for.

[philblunt420]

Yes I heard about Coker getting that job and I also wish him well I believe that school just made the jump to 1a.

[gymman1031]

Yep, they did make the jump. And wouldn't it be sweet for Coker to have a great second go-round?

[philblunt420]

It would be nice to see him do well he still has a good career record and I was a little surprised it took him a few years to get a second chance and that the major schools ignored him.

[gymman1031]

Well, I think a big reason is that, fair or not, he had the stigma on him for awhile of running Miami into the ground. However, things, IMHO, have cooled down, so now they are ready to give him a second chance.

[philblunt420]

I can see that but really only Cokers last season was horrible and he still won a bowl game which Shannon has yet to but these are his players now so lets see what he can do I'm a little worried about the QB position with Marve leaving but they haven't had a QB who knew how to win since Dorsey.

[gymman1031]

But still, after 2002, little by little, the program went downhill. And it wasn't due to Coker's Xs and Os. It was due to his weak recruiting and his softness. And, IMHO, if Coker were at Miami, their records these past two season might well have been worse than they were for Randy. Although Randy may not be the answer, but, at this point in time, he is much better for them than Coker.

[philblunt420]

I'm not entirely sure that they'd have been worse but could have seen it happen. He was a weak recruiter.

[gymman1031]

I think they would have. Although Randy may not be tough enough, I know that he is WAY tougher than Coker. I hear that his practices are tough, intense, and no-nonsense. A Miami friend of mine just described Coker as a "grandfather you enjoyed talking to." Personally, the only thing that kept Coker around for a few seasons was his underrated X & O abilities.

[philblunt420]

also Coker starting out what was it 23-1 24-1? kept him around too. I've heard that Coker is too nice. Shannon has dismissed some players that while talented were questionable off the field I know that when I went to the U and the teams I watched in the 80's had players that I think Shannon wouldnt have put up with.

[gymman1031]

That is true that Shannon wouldn't have put up with some of those players during those 80's teams. Butch Davis probably wouldn't have, either. Don't forget that he was very no-nonsense. He really did a good job cleaning up the mess Dennis Erickson made. Butch Davis, imho, was a weak gameday coach. But his awesome recruiting and tough demeanor led to many wins, especially near the end. And, yes, Coker had great records in the beginning. IMHO, he was better with Xs and Os than both Butch and Randy

[gymman1031]

Yes, Coker went like 24-1 in his first two seasons. And, who knows if Butch would have done better or not. Butch was tougher, but Coker was better with Xs and Os. And, yes, part of the reason Miami went 24-1 was Coker's underrated coaching. But just as big a reason was the fact that he inherited some all-time great teams and talent from Butch. I say that both coaches played a part in that record.

[gymman1031]

By the way, all this shows that, in order to be an all-around great coach at the highest level, you have to be:

1. a very good game coach

2. a very good recruiter

3. tough enough so players fear you

Jimmie Johnson was all three of these. That is why he remains, and might always be, the greatest coach in Miami history. To a slightly lesser extent, Howard Schnellenberger was all three of these, two. Dennis Erickson was a solid game coach and tough as nails.

[gymman1031]

But, Dennis was below average as a recruiter. Like Coker, he inherited some all-time great talent. In addition, he lost control of things down the stretch and got the program into slight trouble. Butch Davis was tough and in your face, and he was an all-time great recruiter. But he was weak as a game coach. There is no reason they should have lost to Washington in 2000. And Larry Coker was an underrated game coach, but he was soft and a weak recruiter.

[philblunt420]

I've always thought they should have beat Washington and they could have should have beat Ohio St. during Dorsey's tenure as qb. Davis cleaned up Erickson's mess.

[philblunt420]

I agree on Johnson and Schnellenberger and Erickson.

[gymman1031]

But, even though Erickson wasn't a super recruiter, made a mess, and cost Miami a few scholarships, I really think that Shannon inherited a program in worse shape than Butch Davis did. Because, since Erickson was a better recruiter than Larry Coker, and since he was much tougher, Butch inherited a program that had more talent and was in a tougher state than Randy did. Actually, IMHO, I would say that, as a recruiter, Erickson was mediocre to just a tad above average, while Coker was weak.

[gymman1031]

By the way, sorry if it sounds like I am ragging too much on Coker. No doubt that he cared, was positive, and worked just as hard as anyone. So you have to give him credit for that. And, if he wasn't somewhat solid with Xs and Os, there is no way that he would have had the record he did. I think that Larry Coker is meant to be a head coach, but just not one at such a major one at a program like Miami.

[gymman1031]

I think that, in some ways, Miami's downfall was partly Butch Davis' fault. Don't forget that he bolted to the NFL so late and suddenly after 2000 after he said he was staying for sure. As a result, Miami wasn't prepared and didn't have time to find a more proven replacement. I believe that, after Coker was fired, Greg Schiano of Rutgers was Miami's first choice, and Texas Tech's Mike Leach was the second choice.

[philblunt420]

I agree but Erickson was able to win championships which I would be shocked if Shannon's team even played for one.

[gymman1031]

Yes they were! Yes, a lot of it was due to him inheriting awesome talent. But, a lot of it was due to his fine coaching and toughness, too. Randy has yet to show either.

[philblunt420]

I'm hoping this is the year he becomes a great coach their first four games are a tough stretch of games.

[gymman1031]

That certainly is a tough stretch. Not only are those first four games against good teams, but more experienced coaches, too. But still, although Miami is young, they definitely have some serious talent. Of course, I would love to see Miami go 4-0 or 3-1 in those games. But, I think that the big difference will be if they go 2-2 or 1-3. I think that the grumblings will be MUCH louder if Miami is 1-3 or 0-4 after those first games than if they are 2-2.

[philblunt420]

I'd love to see 4-0 but I think the best to hope for would be 3-1 I think it's impossible for them to beat Oklahoma.

[gymman1031]

I just saw their schedule, and it is not an easy one at all, even if Miami has as much or more talent than most of the teams.

[philblunt420]

What did you think of the Miami-FSU game? I was very impressed with Harris, the wr's and Cooper but wonder why the defense has gotten worse since Shannon's been coach and they need someone who can kick it long on kickoffs that squib crap isnt needed.. I cursed out the refs more than Shannon in that game though lol.

[gymman1031]

What a game! I agree with everything you said. Even if it wasn't pretty at all times, it was still a great and very important win for Miami since the first four games aren't easy. I think there is hope for Shannon. New OC Mark Whipple is a huge addition. Personally, I think that the team looks tighter and tougher all together than they have in a long time. The Larry Coker effects are becoming a distant memory.

[philblunt420]

I agree and having Whipple instead of Nix seems like a godsend at this point lol. They need to give GT payback for last year a week from this Thurday.

[gymman1031]

Yes! And, with Paul Johnson's offensive brilliance, Miami's defense has to really be ready! I hope they get revenge!

[philblunt420]

I hope they are ready they have some time to fix the defense to stop that run game of GT.

[philblunt420]

I hope they put the disappointment of the VA Tech game behind them and defeat Oklahoma. A win against Oklahoma can put them back in the top 10 I think.