Piss and Moan: Vast majority of people are fuckwitts and deadshits

[AHopeforPeace1]

Its wikiislam

[kawaiigardiner]

@AHopeforPeace1 Cool, thanks for the correct :D

[OrtegaSeason]

What percentage of Libertarians/Objectivists do you think are just using the ideology as a means to an end (ie Ultra-Nationalism)?

[kawaiigardiner]

@OrtegaSeason I couldn't give a number but I feel it would be something like 80-90% with some libertarians liking some ideas of Objectivism but also keeping a firm footing whilst at the same time it seems that the Randroids out there treat Ayn Rand as if she was some sort of prophet. There are libertarians I know of who take offence with being lumped in with objectivists and vice versa so the two don't always over lap in many cases (IIRC Ayn Rand didn't particularly like the term libertarian).

[OrtegaSeason]

@kawaiigardiner Sorry, I think I didn't express myself well. I meant to what extent do you think support for Anarcho-Capitalism (for lack of a better term) is driven by principle, and to what extent is it just being used as a tool by nationalists who don't like the ideology of the existing state but aren't necessarily against having a state?

[kawaiigardiner]

@OrtegaSeason Well the Republicans seem to take about small government but only in the areas they're happy with - they want minimal regulation in the market but they're happy to regulate whom you have a relationship with, who you get married to and whether you like taking recreational drugs; They latch on to the 'anti-establishment' bandwagon because they dislike the status quo but in reality they're no better than the status quo in many ways.

[GroundZeroMosque]

...the Quran says that Allah will bring the Israelis to Israel from ALL nations.

[kawaiigardiner]

@GroundZeroMosque That is the funny part, the Qur'an talks about the 'people of the book' and Israel being the land for the Jews so it seems that many Arab Muslims ignore what is written in their book to use Jews as a scapegoat for the fact that for 1300 years their civilisation has gone nowhere fast.

[GroundZeroMosque]

@kawaiigardiner When I comment to many Muslims that the Quran mentions that Allah gave Moses and the Israelis the land of Israel they are quite shocked. Apparently they have never seen it in their own Quran which is quite surprising.

Also the Quran clearly states that ALL the prophets of "Allah" are from the lines of Jacob and Issac, and does not mention Ismael. Yet Muslims say that Muhammad is from Ismael, but there is no proof. This means Muhammad is not a prophet by Quran

[kawaiigardiner]

@GroundZeroMosque They'll argue that arabs are descended from Ismael where as Jews are descended from Isaac - Ismael represents within the Tanakh a spiritual connection back to Abraham thus Muslim can view Abraham as a single source of monotheism but it would be incorrect for Muslims to then claim that Muhammad is in a direct lineage by claiming the prophets as their own side there is no evidence within the Tanakh of any person named Muhammad being a future prophet let alone Jesus.

[GroundZeroMosque]

@kawaiigardiner Quran; 29:27

Abdullah Yusuf Ali: And We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation, and We granted him his reward in this life; and he was in the Hereafter (of the company) of the Righteous.

Mufti Taqi Usmani: And We granted him IsHaq (Isaac) and Ya=qub (Jacob), and assigned prophet-hood and Book to his progeny, and gave him his reward in the world; and of course, in the Hereafter, he will be one of the righteous.

[GroundZeroMosque]

@kawaiigardiner continued;

Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall: And We bestowed on him Isaac and Jacob, and We established the Prophethood and the Scripture among his seed, and We gave him his reward in the world, and lo! in the Hereafter he verily is among the righteous.

Sahih International: And We gave to Him Isaac and Jacob and placed in his descendants prophethood and scripture. And We gave him his reward in this world, and indeed, he is in the Hereafter among the righteous.

[GroundZeroMosque]

@kawaiigardiner Interestingly the Qur'an did not mention Ismael. The Arab people were around before Abraham. They might be Semitic, but I don't believe that Arabs are the descendents of Abraham. As for Muhammad being from Abraham and being a monothiest their is evidence that Muhammad was a pagan before his revelation. Muhammad's uncle had pagan names for example Abdul Al-Uzza = Slave of Uzza. Also there is a book where it states Muhammad sacrificed a white sheep to Uzza.

[GroundZeroMosque]

@kawaiigardiner The book with the reference of Muhammad's worship of Uzza was by Hisham al-Kalbi, the author, and the book is called Kitab al-Asnam (The Book of Idols)

Muhammad's uncle was named Abt Al-Uzza = Slave of Uzza.

A hadith says that Muhammad told one of the Shahaba that his own father was going to hell for being a pagan.

So Muhammad and his ancestors were pagan polytheists and not following the Abrahamic faiths.

[GroundZeroMosque]

Also do you think that Allah was a Zionist? The Qur'an said that Israel was for Moses and the ISRAELIS. Does that not confirm that Allah was a Zionist?

[GroundZeroMosque]

Do you as a Jewish person ever see that some people like Pamela Geller might be reacting towards Islam out of self preservation? Like those Jews who warned about Nazism before Hitler became so powerful?

I can understand sometimes a Jewish person like Geller being anti-Islam because of what the Qur'an says about Jews and how all Jews should be killed. The villain and victims in the majority of Islamic tales seems to be the Jewish people.

[kawaiigardiner]

@GroundZeroMosque The problem is with Objectivists is that they fail to view the world in a large shade of grey - to them everything is either black of white, right or wrong, good or evil whilst seemingly never looking at the various opinions scholars within Islam have had on a particular matter. To say there is a context within the Qur'an would be bringing in nuance and nuance is seen as 'fuzzing the issue' by some thus any sort of sophisticated dialogue seems to die pretty easily.

[Klingschor]

Agreed!

[kawaiigardiner]

@Klingschor Thank you :D

[ulladullahsen]

Yes, we cannot be critical of islam when a muslim uses islam to justify killing people. He is just a fuckwit.

Just as we cannot be critical of nazism because Anders Brejvik used it to kill all those people..... oh wait???

[kawaiigardiner]

@ulladullahsen Anders Brejvik chose to get involved with nazism and the paranoia in the first place and it is a act of buck passing to blame an ideology for decisions he made - lets also remember one thing, there are racist people out there who don't go on killing sprees - they separate themselves from society and leave it at that so what pushed Anders Brejvik from being a racist to a paranoid fruitcake? at some point he made decisions in his life and he has to take responsibility for them.

[Nasiruddin84]

Only psychopharmacology on a grand scale can save the human race from its (partially hard-wired) imperfect brain and psyche. I recommend Stanislaw Lem "The Futurological Congress".Maybe this will distract you from your current massive misanthropy ;-) Take care!

[kawaiigardiner]

@Nasiruddin84 Cool, I'll investigate the book :D I have on occasions fits of optimism but they're short lived once I come down to earth and look around at what I see lol. Tis the joy I have when I get home after dealing with the public all day - my little corner of the universe untainted by the stupidity of Joe and Jane Sixpack :D