Right or wrong? In conversation with Derren Brown (5/7)

[TheRABIDdude]

I've gotta say that, although i hugely respect Derren Brown and the other parts of this interview on youtube, this episode seems kind of... obvious. how could anyone possibly be ignorant enough to think that without religion morality couldn't exist? that would be saying that if you're an athiest then you have no understanding of right or wrong.

[Ellie8969]

@TheRABIDdude But that's the thing...so, so, so many religious people think exactly that. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it's true. They simply cannot comprehend how morality can exist or how we can possibly know how to be good without their god. Some of them even claim that it's only their faith that stops them doing terrible things, which is rather worrying. Pointing out that most atheists lead good, productive, moral lives doesn't make any difference.

[orladavey11]

god i love his head nodding thing.

[rwtj01]

spot on Derren... he hits the nail on the head

[voluntariosantiago]

now if you take god out of the picture then there is no morality to have because morality and love and everything comes from god, no you can choose to say green is yellow and that black is black and believe anithing you want but god made things in a way that there is no way we can deny there is something

[voluntariosantiago]

Well Morality comes from the bible. and the suposed called Gods Comandments.

But the real true morality is and comes from one man alone witch comes frome Jesus. who shared two comandments. Love God with all your hart and soul and Love thy neighbor as thy selfe. and another thing in the bible that says is that god is Love and he created everything so if he created everything it menas that he made it with love and his intentions where for us to live in love.

[SubVLPer]

@voluntariosantiago Dude slavery is in the bible. And Jesus said to kill all people who were against him.

[headphones222]

@SubVLPer

Please show me where it says that, because I disagree strongly lol

[SubVLPer]

@headphones222 In all of Exodus 21 God instructs the Hebrews on how to own slave. Leviticus 25:44-46, 1Peter 2:18, Deuteronomy 15:12, ect. there are a plethora of verses emulating this mentality that you can own people like property throughout the bible. As for Jesus Luke 19:27 shows that he wanted to kill people for not agreeing with him.

[headphones222]

@SubVLPer

Christians are not called to that today, almost all of what you did quote is from the old testament, also they are referring to servants, people who although bought do so by will. It is also not indefinite, in those times the person could go free, and indeed exodus says they are to be made free regardless in their seventh year. Leviticus and deuteronomy are also old testament. In luke Jesus is speaking in parable.

[SubVLPer]

@headphones222 You are absolutely wrong about everything you said. In the bible it gives instructions on how to brand, where to get, and how to kill your theses people. These where not servants these were slaves. You don't kill servants however you do kill slaves. And there's a loophole in the old testament which allows someone to be a slave forever so it was indefinite and the bible explicitly endorsed all of this.

[SubVLPer]

@headphones222 No exodus said slave are to be free in their seventh year IF they allow their kids and wife to become slaves. As for the new testament Jesus repeatedly endorsed old testament law in all of the Gospels(Matthew 5:18,Luke6:17). In Mark 9:10 Jesus blatantly endorsed old testament law which said that you can kill your kids. In Luke 19:27 there is no evidence that he was talking in parables I suspect that you're just saying that to rationalize the reality of Jesus and the bible.

[headphones222]

@SubVLPer

I disagree, thank you.

[headphones222]

@SubVLPer

Throughout the whole bible, following Jesus is a free will choice, reading the bible is also a free will choice.

[SamuelLM1990]

I really like Derren Brown..

Don't think his view on morality is very solid though. He talks about "a higher sense of morality" which we should refer to. But suggests that it comes from our culture, zeitgeist etc which would make it subjective. Surely if we are looking for a moral code, it has to be objective.

[yapanuwan]

@SamuelLM1990 Morality IS subjective.

[SamuelLM1990]

@yapanuwan expand upon that abit for me maybe? subjective in what sense?

[yapanuwan]

@SamuelLM1990 In the sense that we don't have any reference of what is good and bad. Not even conscience, which can be altered by brainwashing.

[nontrainspotter]

Derren is definitely the man! I've been lucky enough to go to all his shows.

However, he is saying nothing that hasn't been said by Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens in very much the same way, in fact I'm sure he'd admit to paraphrasing them in this very interview in regards to atheism and the Bible, he did mention A C Grayling.

I guess that being an entertainer means he gets to make his point without sounding mean or strident which many accuse Dawkins et al of.

[hamatchristmas]

God I love Derren Brown. So eloquent,  gets his points across perfectly, brilliantly intelligent. What a man

[Kawarukia]

The thing about morality and the bible in the end was simply brilliant. Derren Brown is a genius.

[BornScreaming]

he's saying morality is bred through culture and is not intruistic. thats flimshaw. when an animal defends another animal in nature is this not an example of intruistic morality? when a porpoise saves a drowning human is this not an act of caring in the sight of another creature in mortal peril , but something culturally bred into them? of course not.

[JayDee98765]

@BornScreaming In the animal kingdom, its not morality, its instint, built in chemically induced behavioural patterns due to genetic code. Because, if an animal decides its young is a risk for it to take care of, it'll devour it for its food content, morality is missing in nature, it took an evolved mammal brain to induce the phenomena of morality. Atleast I reckons so :)

[omegavalerius]

@JayDee98765

What excludes us or our close relatives, the bonobos from the animal kingdom? You won't find many animals who will eat their own young simply because its irrelevant whether the parent lives or dies. The gene is indeed selfish and cares nothing of which body it survives in. Atleast so I've been told by the professor:).

[JayDee98765]

@omegavalerius You're making far too many assumptions, as of yet, to know what seperates us from the bonobos, is not yet clear, besides ginetical information, the ginetics being much like atoms, it isn't the atoms chosen but rather how they are put together. Please re consider your thoughts friend :)

[omegavalerius]

@JayDee98765

The only assumption I'm making is that both bonobos and humans have some of the same instincts including: sexual lust and caring for offspring. When did you last think rationally that you should be having sex? We are different in many ways but not in our instincts to care for our children and do you know how I know that? Because both bonobo babys and human babys will die if not taken care of. That means natural selection favors the genes that produce caring parents.

[JayDee98765]

@omegavalerius Sorri ive had a few ciders, its hard to focus. My point was, its too easy to just say theres roughly 1-2% difference in our ginetical code to our ancestors, obviously there are much more complicated differences which SPROUT from that genetical data change. If that makes sense..

[omegavalerius]

@JayDee98765

True but why do you say that a sense of right and wrong in humans is morality and in animals its instinct. I say our morality is also based on instinct which we can examine rationally. Its the great big brain we have that allows us to do some things that for example Bonobos can't but having a basic instinct for protecting the young isn't one of them. Most animals including humans have this instinct.

[edd55r]

I totally agree with Derren on this!! I just dont believe in god and have been branded an atheist many times as if I am somehow in the wrong and have something lacking in my life!! The conclusion I came to was I should just try to live a good life and be good to people I just don't feel I need god to help me do that although I've nothing against religion

[MsCread]

i think this guy is spending too much time with other "Higher Senses".

[BraydonSzafranski]

Yes, yes YES. Derren and I have very, very similar views on life.

[llee611838]

What is a psychological illusionist?

[xxprincesszeexx]

@llee611838 a magician [well that's reducing what he does to it's simplest form] that uses psychology and showmanship to do things that are similar to hypnosis- make us stand against our will etc.etc.

but he also shows us how our subconscious can play tricks on us etc.

[MoonBoy1200]

@xxprincesszeexx Life