A peerless champion, but it annoys me hugely that some people dismiss exceptional horses like Kauto Star and Denman in his wake. The sport has changed out of all recognition in the last 40 plus years and in between we've also had the likes of Captain Christy and Desert Orchid. I wouldn't argue with anyone who says Arkle is the best there's been, but to denegrate these other truly great horses is pure curmudgeonry.
@TissuePrices What planet are you living on.your actually saying kauto star is a better horse than arkle.Could kauto star carry the same weight that arkle did,i doubt it,jes iam not even going to say any more on that stupid comment.Arkle will never be matched anyone that knows horse racing will say that.
Probably the greatest horse ever and his achievements will never be repeated. Best mate and Kuato are pretenders but Arkle is the King and that's official with timeform and ratings
@rosenknep Respect noted for Himself, Chelt 2010 was all about Kauto v Denman. Delighted to see Imperial Commander win it, Channel 4 made a dual out of 2 great horses and gave no respect at all to the competition against them. Nothing like this years Derby in any way,shape or form....The lost shoe lost HMH's Derby, not the better horse winning it or anything! ;)
@dubcindub15 Great comment.I noted that big 2010 duo being upstaged as well.Could you conceive of another horse winning that Arkle /Mill House 1964 duel? It would be like convening JS Bach and WA Mozart for a keyboard question and answer and throwing in Paul McCartney and Elton John and just about anyone else mentionable in the hope they might, by some necessary miracle, win. P.S. My money would be on JS, but that's another story.
@rosenknep i have watched plenty of clips of Arkle wish id have actually seen him in the flesh the highest rated staying chaser i have ever seen is kauto star with 180 Arkle would have theoretically have been able to give him over 20lbs!!! and a beating.The only horse i would say compares to Arkle's achievments is Best mate but himself a 3 time gold cup winner was rated 30lbs+ below Arkle! His weight carrying performances are incompareable and trully astonishing must have felt blessed watching
@MrConnolly25well said best mate was brilliant,but denman was the closest to arkle, denman was a warrior and carried allmost 2 stone more than his rivals and still won in the 2009 henessey.denman and arkle and mill house the 3 best.
@1979denman Yes i can say ratings aside Denman to my mind is probably the only horse who could have given Arkle a real race.I will never forget backing Denman in the 08 Gold Cup! i had the pleasure of being their too,i doubt i'll ever such a brilliantly destructive performance again.Denman is my fav horse ever so maybe my judgement is a little clouded,his Hennessy wins were ridiculously great weight carrying performances & the festival won't be the same without him.
Has it ever happened in any other sport that the two greatest happened to come along at the same time and take each other on? Not only would all the recent horses who are so irritatingly compared to Arkle, like Best Mate, Kauto Star etc. not have got near him, they would also have been galloped out of sight by Mill House, the second greatest of all time in my eyes !
I was in the pub up the road from the skiing place in Kilternan and saw their little case of Arkle things. Saw the original letters addressed to "Himself, Ireland" brilliant :)
Poor Mill House - born in the wrong year. At least he won a Gold Cup. He had very dodgy legs too, always heavily bandaged. When he came back and won the Whitbread ,not a dry eye to be seen at Sandown that day in 1967. Arkle was something very, very special and that is why his owner would never risk him in the National.I I saw him in 1969 at Horse of the Year Show when he was in the parade of personalities - he just danced into the spotlight and he knew that all eyes were on him- Magic!
mill house, the most unfortunate racehorse of all time, on his day i rate him as the 3rd gratest chaser of all time, now hes just remembered as the horse arkle beat all the time
No way of ever proving who was the best thats what keeps us talking about it.But you have 3 to 5 years over the jumps to compare.Arkle and Kauto both exceptional .Gold cup course and distance Arkle for me every time.
i have heard people discuss who is the best- kauto or arkle.
i was not born when arkle was around os did not have the privalege to see him run. however surely arkle must be considered the better of the two. he beat the best off level weights countless times plus won handicaps giving away insane amounts of weight countless times. surely a true measure of a truly brilliant horse
True - but what would life be without a few dreams. Arkle vs Flying Bolt at Cheltenham; Dessie vs KS at Kempton; and in the other code, Eclipse vs any recent Classic winner!
Hello! This may be sirring a hornets' nest, but I don't think KS would have coped with Dessie's extravagant jumping. Memories of his 'favourite' fence, the last at Kempton, which he alwats seemed to clear by a matter of feet! Also, Dessie had a refusal to be beaten that had to be seen to be believed. I don't think KS would have lived with him...
Hello again! Your comment made me kgthink though - what would have happened if Desert Orchid had had that 'suicide run' at Kempton with three front runners involved (including him). Under normal circumstances, he probably would have won five KGVs. As for Cheltenham, well, that's another story altogether... :-)
you'll get your wish - handicapper has announced he is to try and rate arkle based on his race footage to compare him to kauto. Due out later this yr and handicapper says that if it throws out a number well above 200 he'll accept it and wont try and justify a lower mark. Maybe that will put an end to the greatest vs a really good horse who makes an occasional appearance at Kempton, Chelt and one other venue...
Given what Tissue has said about Kauto being infinitely better than Arkle, can we arrange Himself to carry 10st and Kauto 12-7??? Obviously, according to Tissue, Kauto would still walk it lololololol ;-) te he!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Off level weights, of course Kauto does well - he is a fine horse; however, after the handicapper has done his business (basically to cause a dead heat between all the entries), then it's time to see who really is the best. Remember, against Arkle 99% of horses would be outside the normal handicap...
Tissue - are you a racegoer? Timeform comes with me to most meetings, and believe me, it is invaluable. I'd rather stick with Timeform's views of Himself, too. Thank you...
Yep - couldn't agree more, To his supporters, every horse is the best in the business... I prefer a misquote from Orwell: 'All horses are equal, but one was more equal than the others...'
Does it really matter who would win between Kauto or Arkle? I live & breath racing & i don't care who'd of won, There animals not machines so lets just enjoy them while we can & roll on Cheltenham 2010
Would love to see a race between Desert Orchid (187 at best) againt Kauto round Kempton. I'm no Orchid fan, but,for sheer guts, methinks the grey would get it...
The fact is Kauto has never given a display when conceding weight like Arkle FREQUENTLY did. You rightly point out KS's great CV but achieved against who? His biggest competitor is kept separated from him all year long apart from Cheltenham. The two times they have met what happened?An absolute demolition job from Denman the first year before KS defeated an underpar Denman in the rematch. If you think KS could give Denman a stone and beat him you're dreaming. Neither compare to Himself. Yet.
I love the 'yet' lol. There is a problemj though. Himself was so much ahead of the opposition (and still is) that it is a futile argument imo. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that Arkle had remaind an 'entire', any mating (even with, say, Dawn Run), would have diluted Arkle's genes...the offspring would NOT have equalled their hypothetical sire...
Tissue Prices - I'm a big fan of Kauto Star and accept he's the best chaser we've seen in the last 20 years but your argument about all sports improving since the 60's including horse racing (and therefore Kauto Star is better than Arkle) is crazy. To fairly compare, try to imagine the horse Arkle would be if he were racing today and trained by Paul Nicholls under current methods?
the evidence was there for all to see on king george day, when kauto romped home by a record margin only for timeform to suggest that arkle would beat him with 2 stone, all credibility has been lost for his rating now.
...chuckling to myself! Memories ot Arkle's miractulous escape, in the '66 Gold Cup, from his only jumping error. How he stayed upright, and how Pat stayed on board, are both miracles. With Kauto's record, given the same circumstances, he would have been on the deck...
this is a video of arkle winning alot of arkle fans are watching this, so what i am saying alot of bias people saying arkle is better then kauto
no doubt arkle was a great, but look around you, every sport has improved with genertions, is it really conceivable to suggest that horse racing hasnt?
Talk about superior training methods and conditions are irrelevant because if, for e.g., Kauto and Arkle met in the same generation they would be subject to the same methods and conditions. Then it would come down to which is the superior animal in the old fangled disciplines of ability, temprement and gameness. And no chaser stands up to the immortal Arkle.
NB The guy who included Hulk Hogan-Kurt Angle in his comparisons, good grief! This is real life, boy, not greaspaint and faking!
We never get to see Kauto carry weight in handicaps like arkle did. Either Arkle was better or he was in a poor era which i doubt. Also Pat Taffe and others in the dreaper yard have said they believed Flyingbolt was better than arkle but was never given the chance to prove it
why are arkle winning times so slow compared to kauto? kautos wins most of his races whilst still on the bridile
whilst i accept arkle was the best of his generation, you must also accep that every generation gets better
jack nicholson - tiger woods
rod laver - roger federer
hulk hogan - kurt angle
every generation gets better, kauto is the best, the absolute best, and around kempton he is invincible, he broke arkle record and could have done by more if asked
...three Cheltenham Gold Cups, three Leopardstown Handicap Chases (under 12-0 and 12-7 twice), two Hennessy Gold Cups (under 12-7), the King George IV(sic) Chase, the Irish Grand National (12-0), the Gallaher Gold Cup (12-7) and the SGB Handicap Chase (12-7). Arkle's form stands up to the closest scrutiny substantiating the impression of a phenomenon, 'as close to unbeatable as any horse is ever likely to be.'
Well - racing is the only sport in which one can compare across generations. If the film evidence and Timeform's figures mean nothing to you, there is nothing more to be said...
You also have to factor in that for all his english races Arkle had to travel over from Ireland. Not the comfortable experience you have nowadays, but on the boat and then by road. Their will never be another like him.
when arkle was running there was no racing post or horse racing on t.v every week the reason people think horses today are great is you watch horse racing they do montages of horses that go on for 5 minutes then the horse goes out and gets beat by a furlong arkle was a true superstar who didnt need all the media hype everyone just knew he was brilliant and a freak that is why we are looking him up so many years later in 40 years i wont be looking up kauto star or denman
do you wish you did not post that comment now after seeing denman put in a performance like that today under top weight destroying the field kauto star would not have had a chance of winning that today
i replyed to your comment after the race if you bothered to look you said neither horse would be looked up in 40 years i said kauto star will be looked up denman will only be looked up if he wins another gold cup
well i think after winning a 2nd hennessy and winning with top weight i think he will be looked up, in my opinion denman will beat kauto in march after that performance kauto will have to improve big time i think denman is a superior animal anyway if he had not have that heart trouble he would have gave kauto a better run for his money last year
maybe denman wasnt at his nest last year but the others in the race where fine exotic dance was beaten 15 1/2 lengths neptune collonges beaten 22 lengths
There is no sensible dispute that Arkle was the greatest of all time, but there is one question that concerns me and that is how many gold cups would he have won had he not cracked his pedal bone.I know his fans think he would have matched Golden Millers record of 5 but I would point out that the great horse was put down at the young age of 13 with arthritus which was nothing to do with the original injury. I think he would probably have managed one more season before his disability showed.
I wish the BBC would restore old footage such as this- it's not as if it costs that much to do and it's bound to be shown fairly often in the future. especially the Grand National footage.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Ratings, shmatings, times have moved on (as have class of opposition, training methods etc) - based on his performance this year, Kauto would have wiped the floor with him. Yeah, I know, blasphemy, but hey its my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Arkle was a freak among his contempories but that doesn't correspond that he would be today's stars.....and I'll guess we'll never know for sure
you havnt got a clue kauto star is a modern great but nothing to arkle, arkle was winning there races in record time with 2 and a half stone on his back because he was so far ahead of every other horse in the race, he was over reced and still kept winning you would be lucky to see kauto star 3 times a year , you say training methods have changed which they have but horses today get much more work care after races with oxygen treatment and ice baths the list goes on
Seeyousometime you haven't got a clue. Arkle used to give three stones away and still beat his peers. Are there two different handicaps depending on whether Kauto Star is in in a race or not ? Is there fuck. Flyingbolt would piss all over Kauto as well.
arkle timeform rating of 212 highest ever given to a chaser while mill house had 191 he was giving all that weight away and was still pulling away gratest horse ever.not even the mighty denman would have come close to.
A peerless champion, but it annoys me hugely that some people dismiss exceptional horses like Kauto Star and Denman in his wake. The sport has changed out of all recognition in the last 40 plus years and in between we've also had the likes of Captain Christy and Desert Orchid. I wouldn't argue with anyone who says Arkle is the best there's been, but to denegrate these other truly great horses is pure curmudgeonry.
MrSibelius7 1 week ago
Hey guys, Please check out arkle memorial fund. All help needed
c02615223 2 months ago
Kauto star better then arkle, would have beaten him over any distance, course, going, right/left, Kauto the King
TissuePrices 2 months ago
@TissuePrices What planet are you living on.your actually saying kauto star is a better horse than arkle.Could kauto star carry the same weight that arkle did,i doubt it,jes iam not even going to say any more on that stupid comment.Arkle will never be matched anyone that knows horse racing will say that.
1979denman 2 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Probably the greatest horse ever and his achievements will never be repeated. Best mate and Kuato are pretenders but Arkle is the King and that's official with timeform and ratings
tamaria6564 6 months ago
mill house's problem was that they raced when Arkle did
NeilTheFerret1 10 months ago 2
ARKLE was the first horse i ever saw racing and his memory lives on today. As i
grew older i learnt the rules of weight, handicap etc and that put Arkle in another
light. Himself will always shine as THE one and only. There have been other great
horses, but none as yet have got any where near the real deal. Just watching this
video gives me goosebumps
rosenknep 11 months ago 3
@rosenknep Respect noted for Himself, Chelt 2010 was all about Kauto v Denman. Delighted to see Imperial Commander win it, Channel 4 made a dual out of 2 great horses and gave no respect at all to the competition against them. Nothing like this years Derby in any way,shape or form....The lost shoe lost HMH's Derby, not the better horse winning it or anything! ;)
dubcindub15 8 months ago
@dubcindub15 not at all treasure beach has made it 2 from 2 against carlton house even seville turned it around hes just massively over hyped
liamobrien06 8 months ago
@dubcindub15 Great comment.I noted that big 2010 duo being upstaged as well.Could you conceive of another horse winning that Arkle /Mill House 1964 duel? It would be like convening JS Bach and WA Mozart for a keyboard question and answer and throwing in Paul McCartney and Elton John and just about anyone else mentionable in the hope they might, by some necessary miracle, win. P.S. My money would be on JS, but that's another story.
alipitogen 1 month ago
@rosenknep i have watched plenty of clips of Arkle wish id have actually seen him in the flesh the highest rated staying chaser i have ever seen is kauto star with 180 Arkle would have theoretically have been able to give him over 20lbs!!! and a beating.The only horse i would say compares to Arkle's achievments is Best mate but himself a 3 time gold cup winner was rated 30lbs+ below Arkle! His weight carrying performances are incompareable and trully astonishing must have felt blessed watching
MrConnolly25 6 months ago
@MrConnolly25well said best mate was brilliant,but denman was the closest to arkle, denman was a warrior and carried allmost 2 stone more than his rivals and still won in the 2009 henessey.denman and arkle and mill house the 3 best.
1979denman 2 days ago
@1979denman Yes i can say ratings aside Denman to my mind is probably the only horse who could have given Arkle a real race.I will never forget backing Denman in the 08 Gold Cup! i had the pleasure of being their too,i doubt i'll ever such a brilliantly destructive performance again.Denman is my fav horse ever so maybe my judgement is a little clouded,his Hennessy wins were ridiculously great weight carrying performances & the festival won't be the same without him.
MrConnolly25 2 days ago
Has it ever happened in any other sport that the two greatest happened to come along at the same time and take each other on? Not only would all the recent horses who are so irritatingly compared to Arkle, like Best Mate, Kauto Star etc. not have got near him, they would also have been galloped out of sight by Mill House, the second greatest of all time in my eyes !
alipitogen 11 months ago
Comment removed
alipitogen 11 months ago
Great to hear commentator use the words "No Excuse" and "beaten by a better horse". The English usually try to steal success from other countries!
Seanmcdhuibhne 1 year ago
My bedroom wall anno1965: posters of the stones, kinks, dusty springfield, bob dylan, and ARKLE
TheApollopotter 1 year ago
To Arkle lactic acid is like rocket fuel
SHOJMPR42 1 year ago
I was in the pub up the road from the skiing place in Kilternan and saw their little case of Arkle things. Saw the original letters addressed to "Himself, Ireland" brilliant :)
dubcindub15 1 year ago
Poor Mill House - born in the wrong year. At least he won a Gold Cup. He had very dodgy legs too, always heavily bandaged. When he came back and won the Whitbread ,not a dry eye to be seen at Sandown that day in 1967. Arkle was something very, very special and that is why his owner would never risk him in the National.I I saw him in 1969 at Horse of the Year Show when he was in the parade of personalities - he just danced into the spotlight and he knew that all eyes were on him- Magic!
.
rohansrider 1 year ago 2
mill house, the most unfortunate racehorse of all time, on his day i rate him as the 3rd gratest chaser of all time, now hes just remembered as the horse arkle beat all the time
brollytom 1 year ago
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ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
Arkle was so good that they had to change the handicapping rules to slow him down but it still didn't work.
wandereruk44 1 year ago 2
No way of ever proving who was the best thats what keeps us talking about it.But you have 3 to 5 years over the jumps to compare.Arkle and Kauto both exceptional .Gold cup course and distance Arkle for me every time.
spikeyjohn123 2 years ago
I think you'd have to say now that Kauto has made too many bad jumping errors to be seriously considered alongside the immortal Arkle.
5overlord 2 years ago
i have heard people discuss who is the best- kauto or arkle.
i was not born when arkle was around os did not have the privalege to see him run. however surely arkle must be considered the better of the two. he beat the best off level weights countless times plus won handicaps giving away insane amounts of weight countless times. surely a true measure of a truly brilliant horse
azertyuiop32 2 years ago 2
What a race your Flat one would be. Someone would have to train Eclipse into the idiosyncracies of stall starts though!
marsvltor2 2 years ago
True - but what would life be without a few dreams. Arkle vs Flying Bolt at Cheltenham; Dessie vs KS at Kempton; and in the other code, Eclipse vs any recent Classic winner!
marsvltor2 2 years ago
PS - at Sandown in his eponymous race, obviously...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
Hello! This may be sirring a hornets' nest, but I don't think KS would have coped with Dessie's extravagant jumping. Memories of his 'favourite' fence, the last at Kempton, which he alwats seemed to clear by a matter of feet! Also, Dessie had a refusal to be beaten that had to be seen to be believed. I don't think KS would have lived with him...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
I agree - i think guts and jumping ability would result in Dessie shading it in Kempton. On a lefthander you'd have to fancy KS though
Jaygud 2 years ago
Hello again! Your comment made me kgthink though - what would have happened if Desert Orchid had had that 'suicide run' at Kempton with three front runners involved (including him). Under normal circumstances, he probably would have won five KGVs. As for Cheltenham, well, that's another story altogether... :-)
marsvltor2 2 years ago
Thought it was you!!! Kauto Star is not as good as Mill House was, yet Arkle destroyed him...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
In my opinion Kauto would do a similar job on Dessie as Arkle would do on Kauto.
5overlord 2 years ago
you'll get your wish - handicapper has announced he is to try and rate arkle based on his race footage to compare him to kauto. Due out later this yr and handicapper says that if it throws out a number well above 200 he'll accept it and wont try and justify a lower mark. Maybe that will put an end to the greatest vs a really good horse who makes an occasional appearance at Kempton, Chelt and one other venue...
Jaygud 2 years ago
At last - Arkle will show himself to the youonger generation that he was the finest of all...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
Great stuff!!!
marsvltor2 2 years ago
handicappers are a thing of the past, in this modern day a horse are judged on grade 1 success, and kauto record is brillant
despite not being at his best he beat beat imperial, thats on a bad day, on a good day he totally destroyed him.
take it from me kauto is the best, infact i believe him to be the best at all distances, and think he would beat masterminded too.
arkle is yesterdays horse
TissuePrices 2 years ago
not that clive smith another one, theyjust have the same name
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Given what Tissue has said about Kauto being infinitely better than Arkle, can we arrange Himself to carry 10st and Kauto 12-7??? Obviously, according to Tissue, Kauto would still walk it lololololol ;-) te he!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
marsvltor2 2 years ago
kauto does not run in handicaps though, and you know it, Thats why u keep banging on about handicaps, thats ur only argument,
bar denman noone really runs in handicaps, king george is better then any handicap race!
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Off level weights, of course Kauto does well - he is a fine horse; however, after the handicapper has done his business (basically to cause a dead heat between all the entries), then it's time to see who really is the best. Remember, against Arkle 99% of horses would be outside the normal handicap...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
its hard for you to admit it, but i think deep down you know kauto would beat arkle
in al honesty i think kauto would destroy him over any trip, and ground, any track
timeform have a very dubious reputation, a new report is being produced by clive smith to be released in may, thats how dubious arkle rating is
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Tissue - are you a racegoer? Timeform comes with me to most meetings, and believe me, it is invaluable. I'd rather stick with Timeform's views of Himself, too. Thank you...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
That comment probably put this thread to bed! Well said. P :-)
marsvltor2 2 years ago
Yep - couldn't agree more, To his supporters, every horse is the best in the business... I prefer a misquote from Orwell: 'All horses are equal, but one was more equal than the others...'
marsvltor2 2 years ago
Does it really matter who would win between Kauto or Arkle? I live & breath racing & i don't care who'd of won, There animals not machines so lets just enjoy them while we can & roll on Cheltenham 2010
jbarclay80 2 years ago
Would love to see a race between Desert Orchid (187 at best) againt Kauto round Kempton. I'm no Orchid fan, but,for sheer guts, methinks the grey would get it...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
The fact is Kauto has never given a display when conceding weight like Arkle FREQUENTLY did. You rightly point out KS's great CV but achieved against who? His biggest competitor is kept separated from him all year long apart from Cheltenham. The two times they have met what happened?An absolute demolition job from Denman the first year before KS defeated an underpar Denman in the rematch. If you think KS could give Denman a stone and beat him you're dreaming. Neither compare to Himself. Yet.
Jaygud 2 years ago
I love the 'yet' lol. There is a problemj though. Himself was so much ahead of the opposition (and still is) that it is a futile argument imo. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that Arkle had remaind an 'entire', any mating (even with, say, Dawn Run), would have diluted Arkle's genes...the offspring would NOT have equalled their hypothetical sire...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
Tissue Prices - I'm a big fan of Kauto Star and accept he's the best chaser we've seen in the last 20 years but your argument about all sports improving since the 60's including horse racing (and therefore Kauto Star is better than Arkle) is crazy. To fairly compare, try to imagine the horse Arkle would be if he were racing today and trained by Paul Nicholls under current methods?
Jaygud 2 years ago
the evidence was there for all to see on king george day, when kauto romped home by a record margin only for timeform to suggest that arkle would beat him with 2 stone, all credibility has been lost for his rating now.
further evidence is kauto cv, second to none
TissuePrices 2 years ago
u say arkle is better i see no evidence
TissuePrices 2 years ago
its only been since last season that kauto runs 3times##kauto wins
TissuePrices 2 years ago
...chuckling to myself! Memories ot Arkle's miractulous escape, in the '66 Gold Cup, from his only jumping error. How he stayed upright, and how Pat stayed on board, are both miracles. With Kauto's record, given the same circumstances, he would have been on the deck...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
Comment removed
marsvltor2 2 years ago
its ok ive seen a better horse you may know of him his cv reads like this
4 king georege - record
2 gold cups - only horse ever to regain it
2 tingle creeks
a host of other grade 1s
1million + prize money
wins going left/right, soft/heavey,good, fast, flat quick, wins at every ground
his name is kauto star not only the best stayer but also the best at 2miles
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Best horse of his generation: that is beyond doubt. Best horse ever: totally different proposition...and everyone's forgotten Golden Miller...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
kauto beat madison du berle by 36lengh meaning he could have given him 3stone!!!! madison is a grade one winner
kauto beat denman by 13lengths, meaning he could have given him a stone too and still won!!!
TissuePrices 2 years ago
this is a video of arkle winning alot of arkle fans are watching this, so what i am saying alot of bias people saying arkle is better then kauto
no doubt arkle was a great, but look around you, every sport has improved with genertions, is it really conceivable to suggest that horse racing hasnt?
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Kauto would not have lived with himself
birddog8946 2 years ago
this is an arkle video ofcourse its going to me pro arkle opnion.
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Talk about superior training methods and conditions are irrelevant because if, for e.g., Kauto and Arkle met in the same generation they would be subject to the same methods and conditions. Then it would come down to which is the superior animal in the old fangled disciplines of ability, temprement and gameness. And no chaser stands up to the immortal Arkle.
NB The guy who included Hulk Hogan-Kurt Angle in his comparisons, good grief! This is real life, boy, not greaspaint and faking!
5overlord 2 years ago
We never get to see Kauto carry weight in handicaps like arkle did. Either Arkle was better or he was in a poor era which i doubt. Also Pat Taffe and others in the dreaper yard have said they believed Flyingbolt was better than arkle but was never given the chance to prove it
Jaygud 2 years ago
why are arkle winning times so slow compared to kauto? kautos wins most of his races whilst still on the bridile
whilst i accept arkle was the best of his generation, you must also accep that every generation gets better
jack nicholson - tiger woods
rod laver - roger federer
hulk hogan - kurt angle
every generation gets better, kauto is the best, the absolute best, and around kempton he is invincible, he broke arkle record and could have done by more if asked
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Presumably for 'Jack Nicholson' you mean 'Jack Nicklaus' lol
marsvltor2 2 years ago
well if typos help you to get of the subject............
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Kauto 191, Mill House 191, Flying Bolt 210, Arkle 212. Is that back enough on subject...???
marsvltor2 2 years ago
kauto star would have beaten arkle by 7 furlongs minimum
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Comment removed
marsvltor2 2 years ago
dont be so gullable, there is no way any horse could have beaten kauto start at kempton
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Check Arkle's and Kauto's handicap ratings...they tell an interesting story...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
Comment removed
marsvltor2 2 years ago
The following is from the Betfair site:
...three Cheltenham Gold Cups, three Leopardstown Handicap Chases (under 12-0 and 12-7 twice), two Hennessy Gold Cups (under 12-7), the King George IV(sic) Chase, the Irish Grand National (12-0), the Gallaher Gold Cup (12-7) and the SGB Handicap Chase (12-7). Arkle's form stands up to the closest scrutiny substantiating the impression of a phenomenon, 'as close to unbeatable as any horse is ever likely to be.'
marsvltor2 2 years ago
handicaps? grade1 is what defines greatness
and if you want to look at any stat then look at the winning times.
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Well - racing is the only sport in which one can compare across generations. If the film evidence and Timeform's figures mean nothing to you, there is nothing more to be said...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
first of all the film evidence means nothing, if hes racing against donkeys anyone could look good
now arkle was the greatest of his generation no doubt but not as good as kauto
kautos winning times are faster then arkle substantially
as for timeform i believe arkle rating will be looked at again in may in a new document.
TissuePrices 2 years ago
Tell Fulke Walwyn that Mill House was a 'donkey' lol
marsvltor2 2 years ago
denman is better than mill house
gerrard2006rmd 2 years ago
my cousin trained this horse.
footstatic 2 years ago
arkle was the best there was he run for fun.END OF
chippyax 2 years ago 7
nesamone
algis179 2 years ago
You also have to factor in that for all his english races Arkle had to travel over from Ireland. Not the comfortable experience you have nowadays, but on the boat and then by road. Their will never be another like him.
jackson402 2 years ago 5
when arkle was running there was no racing post or horse racing on t.v every week the reason people think horses today are great is you watch horse racing they do montages of horses that go on for 5 minutes then the horse goes out and gets beat by a furlong arkle was a true superstar who didnt need all the media hype everyone just knew he was brilliant and a freak that is why we are looking him up so many years later in 40 years i wont be looking up kauto star or denman
kopkingstevie 2 years ago 3
people will be looking up kauto star denman maybe not but kauto star yes
gerrard2006rmd 2 years ago
do you wish you did not post that comment now after seeing denman put in a performance like that today under top weight destroying the field kauto star would not have had a chance of winning that today
kopkingstevie 2 years ago
i replyed to your comment after the race if you bothered to look you said neither horse would be looked up in 40 years i said kauto star will be looked up denman will only be looked up if he wins another gold cup
gerrard2006rmd 2 years ago
well i think after winning a 2nd hennessy and winning with top weight i think he will be looked up, in my opinion denman will beat kauto in march after that performance kauto will have to improve big time i think denman is a superior animal anyway if he had not have that heart trouble he would have gave kauto a better run for his money last year
kopkingstevie 2 years ago
maybe denman wasnt at his nest last year but the others in the race where fine exotic dance was beaten 15 1/2 lengths neptune collonges beaten 22 lengths
gerrard2006rmd 2 years ago
Hes not the only horse to concede lumps of weight to decent rivals pal
dailystar1 2 years ago
There is no sensible dispute that Arkle was the greatest of all time, but there is one question that concerns me and that is how many gold cups would he have won had he not cracked his pedal bone.I know his fans think he would have matched Golden Millers record of 5 but I would point out that the great horse was put down at the young age of 13 with arthritus which was nothing to do with the original injury. I think he would probably have managed one more season before his disability showed.
peterboi98 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I dont see how anyone can say Arkle was the best horse ever..he only ever had to beat Mill House
dailystar1 2 years ago
I wish the BBC would restore old footage such as this- it's not as if it costs that much to do and it's bound to be shown fairly often in the future. especially the Grand National footage.
Vericacious 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ratings, shmatings, times have moved on (as have class of opposition, training methods etc) - based on his performance this year, Kauto would have wiped the floor with him. Yeah, I know, blasphemy, but hey its my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Arkle was a freak among his contempories but that doesn't correspond that he would be today's stars.....and I'll guess we'll never know for sure
Seeyousometime 2 years ago
you havnt got a clue kauto star is a modern great but nothing to arkle, arkle was winning there races in record time with 2 and a half stone on his back because he was so far ahead of every other horse in the race, he was over reced and still kept winning you would be lucky to see kauto star 3 times a year , you say training methods have changed which they have but horses today get much more work care after races with oxygen treatment and ice baths the list goes on
kopkingstevie 2 years ago
Put 12-7 on Kauto's back and see what happens lolol
marsvltor2 2 years ago
ive never heard so much crap in my whole life.....ya of course you are entitled to your opinion but you surely dont think that......do you?
ogrady909 2 years ago
Seeyousometime you haven't got a clue. Arkle used to give three stones away and still beat his peers. Are there two different handicaps depending on whether Kauto Star is in in a race or not ? Is there fuck. Flyingbolt would piss all over Kauto as well.
SanyaStainless 2 years ago
You mean 4-5 lengths? But, yes, Mill House was a cracker
bigpad69 2 years ago
take a look at horseracingonly
on multiply
rockinmusicman 3 years ago
Two great horses
rockinmusicman 3 years ago
he is the best!
xLovagex 3 years ago 2
Was this this the last Gold Cup to run fully on what we know as the "old course"?
Master Oats in 1995 finished on the "old course".
gurgless 3 years ago
arkle timeform rating of 212 highest ever given to a chaser while mill house had 191 he was giving all that weight away and was still pulling away gratest horse ever.not even the mighty denman would have come close to.
sammac999 3 years ago 5
my dad reckons millhouse was better than denman!
cmacmuiris 3 years ago
arkle was in a class of his own kauto star denman best mate etc wouldnt of lived with him not even come close the ultimate racehorse
phil5125 3 years ago 4
They say Arkle broke Mill House's heart in '64.
Thanks for sharing.
Daithi1973 3 years ago 4
Comment removed
marsvltor2 2 years ago
Good point: apparently in '65 Mill House had given up winning in the Parade Ring...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
The Special One - Arkle
anglopp 3 years ago 4
Why thank you. Such a cool name too :D
jarkle 3 years ago
Thanks for posting.
tigerarmyrule 3 years ago 3
thank you for posting allthese great races
seattlerob7 3 years ago 3