What! faith doesnt mean respect your fellow human being. Faith is believing in something without evidence. Also i want to give this that lady an award!
I'm with Dawkins 100%, faith schools should be abolished. They discriminate, divide and brainwash children before they're old enough to make an educated choice of which faith, if any, they want to belong to. Reason religious people want kids indoctrinated young? Because brainwashing their young minds is easy and they're far less likely to question the absurdities of what they're being taught. Chances are, you've also got them for life no doubt.
@itsonelouder1 That would totally negelct and override our freedom of choice. With your brainwashing comment, it is easier said to do the same thing on your side. (evolution) Sorry dude you have no weight here.
@Crackmandan Teaching kids "facts" like evolution is not brainwashing, that's education which is what tax-payers pay for, not brainwashing. You still have the freedom to teach your kids whatever you like outside of state education, there's your freedom of choice. Even though you're taking away your child's "freedom of choice" before their old enough to discern the facts regarding our origins.
@itsonelouder1 Evolution has never been fact, never ha sbeen never will be. Just because it's taught it secular doesn't make it right. I know I've spoken to many "secular" teachers that tell me how it is. They tell me whatever the "powers that be" say is so, is so, whethe ror not is is factual or not. The FACT of the matter is you'v ebeen lied to, dude, I'm sorry. I really am. Sometimes I wish I could just wave a magic wand to made you see. Time sure will though.
@Crackmandan Go to talk origins dot org, the evidence is overwhelming and there is no other theory out there. What evidence do you have for any other explanation of our origins? Evolution is as much a fact as gravity is a fact. There is no debate in the scientific community about evolution and it has been proven as fact in many scientific disciplines. You can find this out if you're willing to look.
@Crackmandan I need to step in here.. yes he has weight.. once freedom of choice? for whom? the child? the propagation of ignorance is hardly defensible.. all children should have access to all of he knowledge available, including cultural (i.e. religion .. as a social phenomena) and especially scientific method. Religious schools deliberately skew and obscure facts and ruin a child's capacity to think... they should be outlawed.
@TheRacketBoss That would mean evolution should be banned, because it is a religion. Think twice before you type. You can't go around promoting to take away someones rights because you don't agree with them. That is against our constitunional rights, you communist!
When the muslims take over in the UK how do you think apostacy will be dealt with then? Islam is a barbaric religion and should be outlawed everywhere.
What is the penalty for apostasy? The Imam says, “oh well in Islamic countries it is very clear, but we are in Britain so I fail to see the connection”. The man is an idiot and a dishonest one too. Ask the same about mutilating little girls’ genitals and you’ll get the same evasion, it’s not imposed or compulsory. Hum, I wonder how many little girls volunteered – it’s carried out throughout the Muslim world.
The Quran doesn't urge death, but unfortunately the Hadiths do. This illustrates that as soon as human beings started interpreting the Quran, they did so according to their own prejudices. Why can't the Hadith be revoked when it is bad? Why can't Islam adapt?
While I'm not at all very fond of Richard Dawkins, I do agree with him when he mentioned that children should be allowed to think for themselves and to question everything around them, and then decide if they want to belong to any religious faith or not. And I also agree that religious indoctrination is, in fact, child abuse. It completely contradicts this whole teaching on God's gift of free will. There is no free will at all if you are threatened with hellfire if you do not believe.
Parents who send their children to faith schools are abusing them, denying choice and sending them to learn a very distorted truth on issues like science.
@AndrewTally You obviously don't know what you are talking about. I am an atheist now but I went to a Catholic school and would in no way consider it abuse. My parents didn't want to send me to the horrible public school system because of all the violence.
All i see here is more examples of how when religious figures are questioned about the morals and human rights behind the law of their own religion, they create a huge case of denial, and digress from the topic, and try to justify why it is a good thing, when it quite blaitantly isnt a good thing, and they are forcing children into religion with threats of the death penalty. it is sickening in this modern world, and the cause of 90% of disputes between countries. young minds are very suggestable
Atheism: The belief that there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing. And then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything. & then a bunch of everything magically re-arranged itself, for no reason what so ever, into dinosaurs
@MonsterDill Forget the question of whether there is or not a God for now because there are plenty of mistakes here about stuff that can be proved or disproved e.g. what it is that atheists believe. For a start atheism says nothing about dinosaurs - it simply says lack of belief in any god. I'd guess most atheists 'believe in' abiogenesis and evolution but they probably believe in moon-caused tides too.
I doubt anyone believes what you wrote atheists believe. It's called a straw man argument.
@MonsterDill "little man" lol.Shows the weakness of your argument that you have to resort to belittlement! But seeing as you've started it: As for "atheism believing in evolution" I think you'll find, should you decide to engage brain for a few seconds in reading the responses to your ridiculous post, that atheism is not an entity that can possess a belief.
What I like in responding to posts such as yours is although it invites a reasoned response, we're more likely to get a response like yours!
@MonsterDill So I guess this in trolling terms is what is considered a victory? I used to get frustrated that I could not tell when I was being wound up in real life but have long since decided I would rather be seen as gullible 9 times out of 10 than to disbelieve someone who is sincere. I suppose trolling is an on-line equivalent to graffiti vandalism where a small sub-culture believe they are being cool whereas in fact they're just reducing the quality of everyone else's life. Wow, congrats!
@absoprob a small sub culture :L grow up, graffiti is an art, not being cool. as for trolling, i beleive thats what you do when you become a level 52 warrior on some internet game, and yes as a "troll" i've won, now stop wasting my time youre ignorance is what we trolls call, DICK HEAD!
@MonsterDill Seeing as you're telling me to stop wasting your time I may as well have another go :)
'graffiti is an art'. No it's not! Some graffiti has artistic merit but the fact of wielding a spray can and spraying something, usually a tag, that means nothing to anybody other than who do likewise on stuff that doesn't belong to them in order to massage their little egos isn't art. It's just inconsiderate, antisocial and unappreciated by others outside their little clique. Just like trolling!
@MonsterDill ....But hang on a minute.... Did you just say you'd become a level 52 warrior? Wow, I'm sorry. Please accept my apologies as I bow down in front of you for achieving such grandeur. Let me take off my hat to you as you stride past this humbled loser with earned pride towards your next trolling battle and doubtless victory :D
Did.... someone imply that it's the person that gets trolled that's the saddo?Mmmm!
@absoprob youre still here.....oh. go away now this is classed as stalking. and to be honest i think who ever built that cathedral in the middle of barcelona was inconsiderate, antisocial and unappreciated by others outside there clique. to say i stated an opinion NOT a fact, so i don't understand why you people have replied with you're " hey mummy look how wise i am" crap loads of information that i wouldnt stop my enjoyment of life to spend half as much time worrying about than you have. XX
@MonsterDill You got your definition from Mark Wright? Who's he and what's he doing propagating inaccurate definitions of words which already have established meanings?
@TolpuddleMartyr youre clever man, this mark wright guys just cool as fuck, he can play all the oasis tunes, so when he tells you something you just kind of go with it.
@TolpuddleMartyr yep, i'm a troll, you got me, but i'm sorry, were gunna have to play world of warcraft some other time, me and my friend here have to go work now, coz you know, we have a life. peace x
@MonsterDill "...me and my friend here have to go work now, coz you know, we have a life". Do you mean to say there's a responsible side to your life too? Don't you think it would be a more constructive use of your supreme intellect to go around the streets asking people the time then laughing at them when they tell you, pointing at the street clock saying "Ha ha I just wasted your time. I knew the time already" then going to meet up with like-minded friends to have a good laugh about it?
In the United States the damage has been done, when the Supreme Court decided children are government employees and treated them as atheists; we are into the third-generation of godless schools, and the results have been teacher afraid to even acknowledge that this is a Christian founded nation, by people leaving persecution to pursue their own religious values. The restriction was on Government, not the People, and then Government found employees named the People: fraud.
@JackStaplesButler There is a lot to be said about membership, honor, dignity, duty while we do have our country. Christ Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come." Your little education lessons lose value when you take away society, as we see myopic viewpoints that are abused. Without the moral codes, you just run a trade school reading manuals, creating little tasks to be run like a machine and ignored.
@ WOWJBEOWULF "The Supreme Court decided children are government employees and treated them as atheists". Would you care to elaborate please?It seems far fetched to me.
"Teacher[s are] afraid to even acknowledge that this is a Christian founded nation" I suspect the majority of teachers wouldn't teach this simply because it's historical revisionism. It is persecution that gave rise to your right to worship as you please. There is no need for despair -celebrate that this can't be taken from you.
It deeply saddens me when I see religious folk saying that people who do not believe in a god are immoral beings. And teaching children to do good things for fear of punishment by god is just poor parenting.
i my self am an atheiste and i talk and teach my 3 children about different belive and i have in my home the bible the coran the hindou belive evens have
parts of torah and i sit with them and read it to them and we makes debates around it and i think it is the best way to teach religions , now its on to them to embrasse what ever the want
"WHAT IS THE PENALTY FOR APOSTASY?" you can see how the Muslims on the panel try to avoid answering this question, and then bne falsely claims "I can't see the relevance." Bullshit. The whole point was that indoctrinating your children is abuse, especially if you essentially THREATEN THEM WITH DEATH FOR NOT BELIEVING (i.e. thinking for themselves). It's perverse, sick, twisted, and barbaric and has no place in any nation that calls itself civilized.
@TheMrco0ol Swing and a miss. I'm well aware that the Quran is based on the Bible, and that the Bible contains similar crazy hateful shit. But modern Christians do not follow those teachings in the Bible, Christianity underwent a modernization that Islam is sorely in need of. And by the way, I'm not a Christian. I'm an atheist. My moral code is based on pragmatic humanism, and I'll criticize anyone who acts like a barbarian especially if they use an excuse as shitty as "scripture says so".
@TheMrco0ol I'm not going to argue with someone so clueless they don't even know that large swaths of the Quran are simply reworded sections of the Bible. As previously noted, I don't give a shit what religious mumbo jumbo someone subscribes to, when they act barbaric, they deserve to be called barbarians. That includes _everyone_. However, mainstream Christians don't threaten their children with death for apostasy, neither do Jews, and the subject matter at hand was *child abuse*.
"However, mainstream Christians don't threaten their children with death for apostasy, neither do Jews, and the subject matter at hand was *child abuse*."
- what you fail to note is that child abuse doesnt need to be related to physical abuse or the threat there of,
- religious schools (faith factories) are brainwashing children into believing in fairytales
- also the belief that they are 'saved' and everyone else is going to hell causes segregation
@PlasteredDragon There is absolutely no death penalty for apostasy in Islam. There are 11 verses in the Quran discussing the act of leaving Islam, and NOT ONE OF THEM speak of any form of corporal punishment. In fact many verses in the Quran indicate religious freedom e.g. "There is no compusion in religion"(2:256) "And say, ‘It is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let him who will, believe, and let him who will, disbelieve.’"(18:29)
@PlasteredDragon And it is relevant because i watched Dipatches and Panarama episodes on what they teach, its so devisive and demonises women aswell as western values. Plus homosexuality is riff and hatred towards it is often islamic based. They are standing against our culture and why the hell do we still have faith schools????????
What about what I said is bullshit? lol I am gonna tell you the way your living is full of bull and untill you have a wakeup call you are gonna be doing the same way living they same and doing whatever you may do day after day "you people say you worship on this mountain I tell you we worship what we know salvation is from the jews"-Jesus
Until the bible is proven to be god's words, it's just 1 in a million religiously fanatic ramblings on all kinds of gods. The only reason you believe in YOUR particular god-myth is because you have been born into that faith or culture, and has been indoctrinated with ONLY that religion. You have zero evidence, thus, we atheists give you as much credit as any OTHER religious person, of ANY faith, who claims and asserts, but never proves.
Religion is a constant effort and we try to strive and it goes by us being Good
Jesus was without sin and faced a criminal death but the same God that raised him from the dead is here today and wants a relationship with you not a religion "For God so loved the world he gave his one and only son that whosoever believes on him shall not perish but have everlasting life"...........whatjesuswants(dot)me website coming soon
@TheWoah57 You have perfect right to voice what you think. But I also have the right to call you up on it and tell you what your saying is unsubstantiated bullsh*t.
Muslims suck..... if they have a great life as the man said....why do they have to emigrate to other countries to live, specially when the countries are so different from their religion????..... They should stay in their wonerful countries full of muslims...
@travismalk Right... Scientists usually don't know the difference between there, they're and their... They also write their there they're books like a good movie, don't give names for half the cast, but have no problem giving details on other people... Wake up!
I happen to have personal first hand experience in this matter.
When I was little, and began to question, (in the most sincere, legitimate way), the ideas of god, and religion, I was reacted to with hostility, (by my parents), as if I was reaching unquestionable, unholy ground.
Luckily, instead scaring me, it made me suspicious. Bastards.
I guess it helped that they were bigots, too, because I trusted them less for it, and was thus less susceptible to the indoctrination.
"What about the rights of the children themselves?"
"Well the rights of the children come when uuh- when they are a- eh- ehrm- as is.. eh- OLD enough to understand the issues.
Bah. A child cannot, and most likely will not ever have a proper understanding of the issues, if you raise them a certain faith.
That's what indoctrination does, it indoctrinates, and many people find it hard to break the mental shell that's been created for them since childhood.
that muslim guy is really holding back society, How do these people get their voice heard? He studders on every point made against him, and you can tell he is completely full of shit!
why did he keep asking about the penalty for leaving Islam? whats that got to do with faith schools? in this country muslim faith schools dont even teach that your not really allowed to teach that..... and if a faith school does then it is illegal........
@violator198666 death penalty is not given straight away as soon as some one announces apostasy their is exclusive private trail or court case to judge whether the person is sane or does he have any mental issues which relate to his family which have severely affected him this takes about a year or more than a year ad if he is still adamant on leaving then the penalty is carried out.
@violator198666 the reason for death is not to scare the hell out of others but for that individuals not to influence others in doing sin in society. by the way this is not some kind fundamental principle which is preached all over the world. if you were to ask an ordinary muslim he/she would not know the penalty. it only occurs in countries where the shariah law is implemented and it is so rare its quite literally hard to find a case.
shariah law is the law that is mandated by the muslim faith, in the sense of the christian levitican laws. the problem is , if you back a religion you don't just back it's "good" parts, you also endorse the awful,horrid,and downright childish laws that call for death if someone disagrees......
DEATH 4 disagreement......think about that.....seriously
disagreeing to submit to believe in one god and his final messenger (pbuh) when the majority of people have would be considered by many illogical. however who question religion have never really discovered the true spiritual side of life. islam says that the satans objective in life is to destroy the concept of god with man. whether that individual be Christian or Muslim. so Islamic belief would state that man has been deceived by the devil to such an extent that he has no belief in god any more
when others have found rational reasons to follow what god has prescribed then why is it that this individual wants to leave? so that is why I have explained that how long it takes for this judgement to take place. the individual needs to find his spiritual aspect of life which has disappeared this is because he has reduced doing good for the world which has dramatic affects on ones spirituality.
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I have not studied many religions expect for Islam which but when I do read about other Abrahamic religions i always find the same objective which the Satan in any religion strives to achieve and that objective is to destroy the concept of god within a individual
the biggest problem that i have with what your trying to say is that since everyone believes it, there is something to it. I simply must disagree. people thought you could fall off of the planet not that long ago, people were put to death for saying the earth may be round, or the sun was the center of the universe..... when you take things at face value without any investigation whatsoever , you cheat yourself. the muslim faith has everyone pointing to a meteorite to pray! you have 2 know this.
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Its not good enough for Dawkins to have schools based on secular humanism. He wants to ban faith from even religious schools. He says kids are to young and its wicked to indoctrinate them.
This is the same man who funds atheist camps for children, who get indoctrinated into atheist philosophy as early as seven years old. Do I smell hypocrisy?
@benthemiester There's no such thing as "atheist philosophy ". An atheist simply doesn't believe in God. Trying to get atheists, like me, to all believe the same thing, is like trying to herd cats. What Dawkins is trying to foster in children is the development of their critical faculties. This mental development is what faith based schools try to stunt! Everyone is an atheist for the religion of most of humanity. Proper atheists just go one God further.
@dalriada842 "atheist philosophy ". An atheist simply doesn't believe in God"
Unless you can prove that God doesn't exist as a fact your statement above is a philosophy & is just as faith based as any religious belief system. There are many different atheist organizations just as there are different denominations. The Brights, American Atheist org, American Secular Union, The Atheist Agenda,Fellowship of Freethought, North Texas Church of Freethought. There many more to numerous to mention.
@benthemiester The burden of proof is on the person making the extraordinary claim ie an omniscient, omnipresent God. Where did that come from? It's no more a philosophy for me not to believe in God, than it is not to believe in the tooth fairy. If someone can prove to me that God exists, i'll be more than happy to do so. Proof doesn't mean quoting scripture, since I just view them as stories. I call myself an atheist rather than an agnostic, because I view that as fence sitting. Show evidence!
@dalriada842 I would agree with you that the burden of proof would be on those who are proponents but the vast majority of religious beliefs in general just by their nature of faith make no attempt to prove Gods existence. I think their is an extraordinary amount of evidence in the statistical probability of the cosmological constants, the rare earth principles, and the digital encoded information and nano technology recently discovered in the genome. However evidence a can be very subjective.
@benthemiester I've never heard of most of these organisations. Thanks for pointing them out! I may look in to some of them. This doesn't prove they necessarily share views other than their lack of a belief in God. They could be social clubs. What do you believe are the defining characteristics of an "atheist philosophy"?
@dalriada842 "This doesn't prove they necessarily share views other than their lack of a belief in God"
The same can be said for Christians or other polytheistic religions and denominations that all agree on a Supreme Creator and a universal architect. Einstein was a secular Jew yet even he believed in a Universal architect. Anthony Flew before he died renounced a life time of atheism for a Deist belief based on his research of Intelligent design and he continued to be an intellectual.
@benthemiester Having, admittedly, just skimmed through Flew's wiki' page, his belief in a Deist God, seems to stem from a "God is in the gaps" style argument. I'll read further on the matter, but appeals to authority have no sway with me. The fact that he was a prominent atheist who came to believe in a Deist God, does not mean he was correct in that belief. There is a certain amount of churn between people's religious beliefs, or lack thereof.
@dalriada842 None of our beliefs can be quantified as being absolutely correct in scientific naturalism. I don't believe a God of the gaps argument is valid anymore.
Intelligent design is the view that the complexity and dynamics of living things can be better explained through an Intelligent causation than through unguided processes. This theory is based on our knowledge not on our ignorance. We know so much more now then when the modern synthesis was proposed. Flew understood this.
@benthemiester "Intelligent design is the view that the complexity and dynamics of living things can be better explained through an Intelligent causation than through unguided processes." - How did this "Intelligent causation" come to exist? Isn't this even harder to explain than what it seeks to explain? The processes aren't "unguided". Natural selection is a very compelling mechanism. It doesn't just apply over millions of years, but can be seen on a human timescale, eg antibiotic resistance..
@dalriada842 No 1 disputes natural selection, by the way, natural selection was actually a theory that incorporated an intelligent designer. It was Edward Blythe that first proposed it. Darwin took the credit. Again no one argues that animals don't change and adapt over time. Micro evolution is a known fact. Flies can develop resistance but their still flies. We can cultivate corn and bananas but their still corn and bananas. Most importantly the fossil record is not consistent with the theory.
@benthemiester The scale of the changes are a matter of degree, not of kind. A large number of small changes, or a smaller number of large changes, combined with a change in the environment, will result in one species transforming into another, given enough time. Physical isolation of different groups will result in speciation. Genes may code for a single protein, or be a controlling gene at various levels.
In what way isn't the fossil record consistent with the theory? Fossil formation is rare.
@dalriada842 It may be a shock to many, but we don't know enough about genes to make any case for macro evolution. Francis Collins recently said we have to rethink everything we thought we knew about the genome. Jerry Coyne admits this in his lecture The Locust of Evolution. Epigenetics has shown us that there is a whole universal network of gene regulators and we are barely beginning to scratch the surface on. This is mentioned in my video with S. Newman concerning the non gene centered view.
@benthemiester ..in bacteria. Living creatures have many design flaws that make them good enough for survival, but hardly optimal. Case in point, the human eye, which has the blood supply to the retina obscuring vision. Why would an intelligent creator design such a flawed structure? Science doesn't deal with certainty.The God of the gaps argument isn't invalid just because we recognise the limitations of human thinking. It's just an attempt to attribute to God, those things we don't understand.
@dalriada842 The human eye is exquisitely designed. The myth of bad design in the human eye has been debunked in recent years. Whats referred to as backward wiring is actually a plus. Our eyes have to be wired this way to provide nutrients to parts of the eye that require them. I have the paper if your interested in reading. Francisco Ayala said a human designer could do a better job. I asked him who this designer was and he could not answer, again I have paper if interested.
@benthemiester Yes I would be interested in reading them. Why couldn't the nutrients, and wiring, be provided from the rear of the retina? Cephalopods have a more sensible layout. I have read that there are space saving advantages in the backwards arrangement in small eyes, according to wikipedia. But that can't apply to animals as large as humans, if a God designed people.
@dalriada842 You are reciting one of many theories with in a theory. Punctuated equilibrium is also another of several, but I'm speaking of observable evidence. Cephalopods live underwater and are not exposed to the same amount of UV light. There eyes function perfectly for their environment. If you know of anyone who has been able to transplant an eye of an octopus into a human or rewire the human eye for optimal vision please tell. I would be very interested. Humans can achieve 20/20 vision.
@benthemiester The point I'm making about the cephalopod eye is that the light sensitive surface of the retina isn't obscured. Mammalian eyes are back to front as far as the retinal structure is concerned. Not evidence for a good conscious design. It's more likely the result of random mutation, and natural selection.
20/20 vision is merely the definition of average vision , for a human, not a measure of excellence. I have better than 20/20 vision after having laser surgery.
@dalriada84 How did this "Intelligent causation" come to exist? Were planing to some day terraform Mars & seed it with life, maybe even use artificial life created life in test tube. Does that mean if these future potential living beings considered they were designed, would they be irrational? If a Supreme being created the Universe & was primary causation for big bang, then he exist outside of space & time, why would we still regard space and time restricted to our own limited understanding?
@dalriada842 Concerning Mars I was making an analogy and if you think I'm lying, key words, Mars terraforming. I believe there is overwhelming evidence. Have you ever studied the mathematics probabilities of the anthropic principle. Do you know what kind of ratios and perimeters make up the cosmological constants? Do you know why cosmologist call it the fine tuning problem? How do you explain digital code in the genome? You never answered why the Dissent list of scientist continues to grow.
@benthemiester Who said anything about lying! I just think that if Mars is terraformed, it'll be the Chinese or Indians who do it. The west doesn't have the drive anymore.
Check out AndromedasWake's channel and watch Creation Astronomy Propaganda for his take on fine tuning.
I hadn't heard about this list you mention. I'm not an evolutionary biologist. I can only
@dalriada842 "What do you believe are the defining characteristics of an "atheist philosophy"
Again it depends. There are just as many hypocrites in atheism as in any other religion, for example in the video above Dawkin's criticizes parents for indoctrinating children into their own beliefs. yet this is the same man who has financially supported Camp Quest. He calls these people evil yet he has never denounced his own parents who raised him as an Anglican. It's always the fault of others.
@benthemiester I haven't heard Dawkins call parents evil. He calls the imposition of doctrine wicked. I agree with this. Children should be taught how to think for themselves, rather than have someone else's pre-digested beliefs foisted upon them.
@dalriada842 Scientist are now staring to understand this. The Dissent from Darwin list has grown 8 fold in the last 8 years. Even the evo devos like Massimo Pigliucci are calling for a relaxation of the assumptions of the current synth and he and 15 other major players in evolution are proposing a new extended synth that's more Lamarck than Darwin. Even they have admitted the limitations of Darwinism. The problem is that the new model based on epigenetics is even less known than current model.
@dalriada842 I'm referring to the Altenberg 16 summit. If your more interested in this proposal which has caused a division & infighting in the evolutionary field. U should watch my video, Will the real Theory of Evolution please stand up, its a little more technical than your average trash talking video but most people aren't aware of this paradigm shift, including many college professors. There are many A, Flew's out there. Maybe u should here it from his own mouth instead of rely on others..
@dalriada842 The concept of bad design is really a philosophical one. We have been able to accomplish so much with these so called poorly designed bodies.
An intelligent agent doesn't necessarily guarantee the design to be perfect.
Just as intelligent car manufactures don't necessarily mean perfect cars.
If we could see for 100 miles someone would call the eye poorly designed because we could not see for 200 miles. If we could jump 100ft someone would complain we couldn't jump 200, & so on.
@benthemiester You would expect an entity capable of creating a universe to be capable of doing a better job. Unless you believe that shoddy design was deliberately incorporated to test peoples faith:D
@dalriada842 I'm assuming your a male. When you look at a beautiful women in all her feminine glory, do you say to yourself gee, I cant really enjoy this vision of loveliness because according to Darwinist my eye is wired the wrong way? How do you know that a cephalopods eye is superior to a humans eye based on observational evidence? If u have a human being and an octopus and both have optimal vision then how do you determine which is superior and what method would you use? Please cite study.
@benthemiester I don't see the relevance of what you're writing to the slapdash structure of the eye. More generally than just human and cephalopod, you could look at numbers of rods, number and types of cone cells, pigmented filters, ability to detect polarised light, ability to change focus using the lens and/or cornea, presence of a tapetum lucidum etc. etc. Some species have better eyes in certain ways than others, human eyes compare poorly to many non-mammals.
@dalriada842 "human eyes compare poorly to many non-mammals"
The human eye is designed for humans and it serves its niche. It is very practical and doesn't waste energy on anything that is not needed. If we could spot a rabbit as far as Eagle within a range of 30- 50 miles it would do us no good because by the time we got there the rabbit would be long gone, however for an eagle it serves its niche well. Life is exquisitely designed. Please cite an intelligent person who could do better.
@benthemiester I'm obviously not explaining myself very well. Turning the argument around. What benefit is there to having all that 'wiring' obscuring the light sensitive cells in the retina? I already accept that life is adapted to its ecological niche. How does something that seems to me to be the result of an unplanned, unconscious process, in any way prove the existence of a God?
@dalriada842 No offense but I found the video a little silly and hardly unbiased. It was basically filled with insults and semantic double speak. I might remind you that the term the fine tuning problem is not a term coined by creationist but secular cosmologist. I think a much less biased and fair analysis would be the production of a The Privileged planet. It is not a religious video and deals only with science and observable evidence. I have never equated cosmology with Darwinism.
@dalriada842 Please tell me of anyone who can improve the human eye by wiring it any other way. Your argument is basically, because u wouldn't have done it that way, therefore its bad design. This is not scientific reasoning but philosophical reasoning. Your eyes allow u to read, write, detect danger, even tiny nuances in facial expressions. It has kept u out of harms way even though you don't realize it. Even people who are blind can live happy meaningful functional lives as well as procreate.
because to tell a child that the penalty for apostasy is death is to bully that child and scare them, intimidate them into staying in that religion. If that is what it says in the scripture (and to be honest i don't know if it is or not) then the school doesnt need to teach it, they just need to teach that the scripture is infallible, and the intimidation tactic is achieved. It's a valid point in my opinion, especially if this is in the scripture.
Indoctrination isn't really a choice. Mental abuse is still abuse, and many children are forced into the christian religion through deceptive means(as was I). I'll admit that many moderates and progressive christians aren't as bad, but look at some fundie rituals like demonic exorcisms. This stuff is far from harmless, and there have been cases involving injuries in recent years, with kids! Its blatently immoral.
My parents came home with me being a Christian. I never said I wanted to be, but as well as I never said I didn't want to. I think that I should have rewinded my yearas of my life when they took me to the church and baptized me because I know what I want to be now, and I want to be who I want to be, not something my parents MADE me be. Who cares if they're my parents?
I think Prof Dawkins is correct that we should given childern the means to make their own informed decisions. The problem i have with faith school is that it is enforced segregation from those of other faiths and I believe this can led to racism, discrimination and misunderstanding.
Dawkins is full of so much crap, what is he going to lobby to let social services take children away from religious families
Ms90sforever 2 months ago
Richard Dawkins sounds like a aging male to female transsexual
Ms90sforever 2 months ago
What! faith doesnt mean respect your fellow human being. Faith is believing in something without evidence. Also i want to give this that lady an award!
Theasen89 3 months ago
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I hate faith schools. Get rid of them. Don't let them take root in Britain. They breed religious fundamentalism. This is a vote winner for me.
SpidermanInLondon 4 months ago
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SpidermanInLondon 4 months ago
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SpidermanInLondon 4 months ago
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SpidermanInLondon 4 months ago
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SpidermanInLondon 4 months ago
Fuck religion niggah
coracolafly 5 months ago
I'm with Dawkins 100%, faith schools should be abolished. They discriminate, divide and brainwash children before they're old enough to make an educated choice of which faith, if any, they want to belong to. Reason religious people want kids indoctrinated young? Because brainwashing their young minds is easy and they're far less likely to question the absurdities of what they're being taught. Chances are, you've also got them for life no doubt.
itsonelouder1 9 months ago
@itsonelouder1 That would totally negelct and override our freedom of choice. With your brainwashing comment, it is easier said to do the same thing on your side. (evolution) Sorry dude you have no weight here.
Crackmandan 7 months ago
@Crackmandan Teaching kids "facts" like evolution is not brainwashing, that's education which is what tax-payers pay for, not brainwashing. You still have the freedom to teach your kids whatever you like outside of state education, there's your freedom of choice. Even though you're taking away your child's "freedom of choice" before their old enough to discern the facts regarding our origins.
itsonelouder1 7 months ago
@itsonelouder1 Evolution has never been fact, never ha sbeen never will be. Just because it's taught it secular doesn't make it right. I know I've spoken to many "secular" teachers that tell me how it is. They tell me whatever the "powers that be" say is so, is so, whethe ror not is is factual or not. The FACT of the matter is you'v ebeen lied to, dude, I'm sorry. I really am. Sometimes I wish I could just wave a magic wand to made you see. Time sure will though.
Crackmandan 7 months ago
@Crackmandan Go to talk origins dot org, the evidence is overwhelming and there is no other theory out there. What evidence do you have for any other explanation of our origins? Evolution is as much a fact as gravity is a fact. There is no debate in the scientific community about evolution and it has been proven as fact in many scientific disciplines. You can find this out if you're willing to look.
itsonelouder1 7 months ago
I'm afraid you've been lied to dude. Please do your research thoroughly. How much of the scientific community are debating evolution? Find out
itsonelouder1 7 months ago
@Crackmandan I need to step in here.. yes he has weight.. once freedom of choice? for whom? the child? the propagation of ignorance is hardly defensible.. all children should have access to all of he knowledge available, including cultural (i.e. religion .. as a social phenomena) and especially scientific method. Religious schools deliberately skew and obscure facts and ruin a child's capacity to think... they should be outlawed.
daNDayati 4 months ago
Religious schools should be banned, they indoctrinate children into their parents views, richard dawkins is absolutely right!!
TheRacketBoss 9 months ago
@TheRacketBoss That would mean evolution should be banned, because it is a religion. Think twice before you type. You can't go around promoting to take away someones rights because you don't agree with them. That is against our constitunional rights, you communist!
Crackmandan 7 months ago
When the muslims take over in the UK how do you think apostacy will be dealt with then? Islam is a barbaric religion and should be outlawed everywhere.
godlessandveryhappy 9 months ago
@godlessandveryhappy Every religion is dangerous and barbaric, and should be outlawed everywhere.
buttface112211 9 months ago
@buttface112211 Totally agree with you, I wish we could ban all religions.
godlessandveryhappy 9 months ago
What is the penalty for apostasy? The Imam says, “oh well in Islamic countries it is very clear, but we are in Britain so I fail to see the connection”. The man is an idiot and a dishonest one too. Ask the same about mutilating little girls’ genitals and you’ll get the same evasion, it’s not imposed or compulsory. Hum, I wonder how many little girls volunteered – it’s carried out throughout the Muslim world.
ritchloui 10 months ago
All that follow a religion are deluded.
boldertits 10 months ago
When one person has delusions they call it mental illness. When many people share delusions they call it religion.
buttface112211 1 year ago
@buttface112211 if your comment could be shortended, i think it would make a good t-shirt :D
SuLLyZorZ 9 months ago
@SuLLyZorZ its a quote by someone
ornivb 9 months ago
The Quran doesn't urge death, but unfortunately the Hadiths do. This illustrates that as soon as human beings started interpreting the Quran, they did so according to their own prejudices. Why can't the Hadith be revoked when it is bad? Why can't Islam adapt?
mmartini50 1 year ago
While I'm not at all very fond of Richard Dawkins, I do agree with him when he mentioned that children should be allowed to think for themselves and to question everything around them, and then decide if they want to belong to any religious faith or not. And I also agree that religious indoctrination is, in fact, child abuse. It completely contradicts this whole teaching on God's gift of free will. There is no free will at all if you are threatened with hellfire if you do not believe.
JoeysBabies1980 1 year ago
WHERE ARE THE MUSLIMS?? I always see them posting on youtube. where are you guys now??
jay8979780 1 year ago
bunch of loosers sitting and talking....
nihanash 1 year ago
Mukadam is a total CRETIN.
Ekenedil 1 year ago
Religion is very ridiculous.
Ekenedil 1 year ago 20
Parents who send their children to faith schools are abusing them, denying choice and sending them to learn a very distorted truth on issues like science.
AndrewTally 1 year ago
@AndrewTally You obviously don't know what you are talking about. I am an atheist now but I went to a Catholic school and would in no way consider it abuse. My parents didn't want to send me to the horrible public school system because of all the violence.
xxdiogenescynicxx 1 year ago
thats the muslim religion in an nutshell,,evil and barbaric
glennirish 1 year ago
@glennirish WORD!
MrNickChopper76 1 year ago
piss on muhammad and the koran
glennirish 1 year ago
Outstanding point by the woman: the good that comes from religious education is often not because of religion but in spite of it.
POW!
Astrobrant2 1 year ago 9
@Astrobrant2 WORD!
MrNickChopper76 1 year ago
All i see here is more examples of how when religious figures are questioned about the morals and human rights behind the law of their own religion, they create a huge case of denial, and digress from the topic, and try to justify why it is a good thing, when it quite blaitantly isnt a good thing, and they are forcing children into religion with threats of the death penalty. it is sickening in this modern world, and the cause of 90% of disputes between countries. young minds are very suggestable
sjomega 1 year ago
@sjomega WORD!
MrNickChopper76 1 year ago
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MonsterDill 1 year ago
What is the penalty for apostasy? AVOID THE QUESTION WITH QUICK EDITING!!!
LOL
Statistic100 1 year ago 2
Atheism: The belief that there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing. And then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything. & then a bunch of everything magically re-arranged itself, for no reason what so ever, into dinosaurs
MonsterDill 1 year ago
@MonsterDill Forget the question of whether there is or not a God for now because there are plenty of mistakes here about stuff that can be proved or disproved e.g. what it is that atheists believe. For a start atheism says nothing about dinosaurs - it simply says lack of belief in any god. I'd guess most atheists 'believe in' abiogenesis and evolution but they probably believe in moon-caused tides too.
I doubt anyone believes what you wrote atheists believe. It's called a straw man argument.
absoprob 1 year ago
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MonsterDill 1 year ago
@MonsterDill "little man" lol.Shows the weakness of your argument that you have to resort to belittlement! But seeing as you've started it: As for "atheism believing in evolution" I think you'll find, should you decide to engage brain for a few seconds in reading the responses to your ridiculous post, that atheism is not an entity that can possess a belief.
What I like in responding to posts such as yours is although it invites a reasoned response, we're more likely to get a response like yours!
absoprob 1 year ago
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MonsterDill 1 year ago
@absoprob why's this guy having a conversation with himself???
MonsterDill 1 year ago
@MonsterDill So I guess this in trolling terms is what is considered a victory? I used to get frustrated that I could not tell when I was being wound up in real life but have long since decided I would rather be seen as gullible 9 times out of 10 than to disbelieve someone who is sincere. I suppose trolling is an on-line equivalent to graffiti vandalism where a small sub-culture believe they are being cool whereas in fact they're just reducing the quality of everyone else's life. Wow, congrats!
absoprob 1 year ago
@absoprob a small sub culture :L grow up, graffiti is an art, not being cool. as for trolling, i beleive thats what you do when you become a level 52 warrior on some internet game, and yes as a "troll" i've won, now stop wasting my time youre ignorance is what we trolls call, DICK HEAD!
MonsterDill 1 year ago
@MonsterDill Seeing as you're telling me to stop wasting your time I may as well have another go :)
'graffiti is an art'. No it's not! Some graffiti has artistic merit but the fact of wielding a spray can and spraying something, usually a tag, that means nothing to anybody other than who do likewise on stuff that doesn't belong to them in order to massage their little egos isn't art. It's just inconsiderate, antisocial and unappreciated by others outside their little clique. Just like trolling!
absoprob 1 year ago
@MonsterDill ....But hang on a minute.... Did you just say you'd become a level 52 warrior? Wow, I'm sorry. Please accept my apologies as I bow down in front of you for achieving such grandeur. Let me take off my hat to you as you stride past this humbled loser with earned pride towards your next trolling battle and doubtless victory :D
Did.... someone imply that it's the person that gets trolled that's the saddo?Mmmm!
absoprob 1 year ago
@absoprob youre still here.....oh. go away now this is classed as stalking. and to be honest i think who ever built that cathedral in the middle of barcelona was inconsiderate, antisocial and unappreciated by others outside there clique. to say i stated an opinion NOT a fact, so i don't understand why you people have replied with you're " hey mummy look how wise i am" crap loads of information that i wouldnt stop my enjoyment of life to spend half as much time worrying about than you have. XX
MonsterDill 1 year ago
@MonsterDill Atheism: the theory or belief that God does not exist.
I got my definition from the OED. Where did you get yours from?
TolpuddleMartyr 1 year ago
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MonsterDill 1 year ago
@MonsterDill You got your definition from Mark Wright? Who's he and what's he doing propagating inaccurate definitions of words which already have established meanings?
TolpuddleMartyr 1 year ago
@TolpuddleMartyr youre clever man, this mark wright guys just cool as fuck, he can play all the oasis tunes, so when he tells you something you just kind of go with it.
MonsterDill 1 year ago
@MonsterDill Ah, now I see. You're a troll. Well, this is where we go our separate ways. My apologies for wasting your time.
TolpuddleMartyr 1 year ago
@TolpuddleMartyr yep, i'm a troll, you got me, but i'm sorry, were gunna have to play world of warcraft some other time, me and my friend here have to go work now, coz you know, we have a life. peace x
MonsterDill 1 year ago
@MonsterDill "...me and my friend here have to go work now, coz you know, we have a life". Do you mean to say there's a responsible side to your life too? Don't you think it would be a more constructive use of your supreme intellect to go around the streets asking people the time then laughing at them when they tell you, pointing at the street clock saying "Ha ha I just wasted your time. I knew the time already" then going to meet up with like-minded friends to have a good laugh about it?
absoprob 1 year ago
In the United States the damage has been done, when the Supreme Court decided children are government employees and treated them as atheists; we are into the third-generation of godless schools, and the results have been teacher afraid to even acknowledge that this is a Christian founded nation, by people leaving persecution to pursue their own religious values. The restriction was on Government, not the People, and then Government found employees named the People: fraud.
WOWJBEOWULF 1 year ago
@WOWJBEOWULF Read a fucking history book you mindless drone.
JackStaplesButler 1 year ago
@JackStaplesButler There is a lot to be said about membership, honor, dignity, duty while we do have our country. Christ Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come." Your little education lessons lose value when you take away society, as we see myopic viewpoints that are abused. Without the moral codes, you just run a trade school reading manuals, creating little tasks to be run like a machine and ignored.
WOWJBEOWULF 1 year ago
@ WOWJBEOWULF "The Supreme Court decided children are government employees and treated them as atheists". Would you care to elaborate please?It seems far fetched to me.
"Teacher[s are] afraid to even acknowledge that this is a Christian founded nation" I suspect the majority of teachers wouldn't teach this simply because it's historical revisionism. It is persecution that gave rise to your right to worship as you please. There is no need for despair -celebrate that this can't be taken from you.
absoprob 1 year ago
It deeply saddens me when I see religious folk saying that people who do not believe in a god are immoral beings. And teaching children to do good things for fear of punishment by god is just poor parenting.
undeniablynerdy 1 year ago
i my self am an atheiste and i talk and teach my 3 children about different belive and i have in my home the bible the coran the hindou belive evens have
parts of torah and i sit with them and read it to them and we makes debates around it and i think it is the best way to teach religions , now its on to them to embrasse what ever the want
mystisme 1 year ago
"WHAT IS THE PENALTY FOR APOSTASY?" you can see how the Muslims on the panel try to avoid answering this question, and then bne falsely claims "I can't see the relevance." Bullshit. The whole point was that indoctrinating your children is abuse, especially if you essentially THREATEN THEM WITH DEATH FOR NOT BELIEVING (i.e. thinking for themselves). It's perverse, sick, twisted, and barbaric and has no place in any nation that calls itself civilized.
PlasteredDragon 1 year ago 38
@PlasteredDragon will even christianity punish non believers with death
(bring my enimies here and kill thim infront of me)luke 19:27
so u christians dont follow ur bible
infact half the things u criticise muslems about is MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE
the hejab
the jihad
the disbliefing penalty
so follow ur bible or dont criticise others for following it better than u :)
TheMrco0ol 1 year ago
@TheMrco0ol Swing and a miss. I'm well aware that the Quran is based on the Bible, and that the Bible contains similar crazy hateful shit. But modern Christians do not follow those teachings in the Bible, Christianity underwent a modernization that Islam is sorely in need of. And by the way, I'm not a Christian. I'm an atheist. My moral code is based on pragmatic humanism, and I'll criticize anyone who acts like a barbarian especially if they use an excuse as shitty as "scripture says so".
PlasteredDragon 1 year ago
@PlasteredDragon just to know what kind of ppl u r
do u see israel as barbarians?
if not then fuck ur humanism cuz u have no humanity in u
if yes then ther is hope for u
the quran is not based on the bible
god rules dont change
in jesus time god comanded ppl to do things
but they stoped at a time andthey changed the bible
thats why god sent mohammad to remined ppl with god rules
so u may find the some similarities but alot more differences
TheMrco0ol 1 year ago
@TheMrco0ol I'm not going to argue with someone so clueless they don't even know that large swaths of the Quran are simply reworded sections of the Bible. As previously noted, I don't give a shit what religious mumbo jumbo someone subscribes to, when they act barbaric, they deserve to be called barbarians. That includes _everyone_. However, mainstream Christians don't threaten their children with death for apostasy, neither do Jews, and the subject matter at hand was *child abuse*.
PlasteredDragon 1 year ago
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TheMrco0ol 1 year ago
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@PlasteredDragon its written it the bible
they dont follow it but its in their book
the prophet(pbuh)didnt know how to read arabic plus the bible was not translated to arabic exept 200 years after the prophet had died
how could he copy it if it didnt even exist in arabic?
watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac
know tell me thats not child abuse so i can kick ur ass
TheMrco0ol 1 year ago
@PlasteredDragon mohammad(pbuh)didnt know how to read nor write arabic
and he didnt know any othe languages
the bible was not translated into arabic exipt 200 years after the prophet died
how exactly could he copy the bible?!
watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac
now tell me thats not child abuse so i can kick ur ass
TheMrco0ol 1 year ago
@PlasteredDragon
"However, mainstream Christians don't threaten their children with death for apostasy, neither do Jews, and the subject matter at hand was *child abuse*."
- what you fail to note is that child abuse doesnt need to be related to physical abuse or the threat there of,
- religious schools (faith factories) are brainwashing children into believing in fairytales
- also the belief that they are 'saved' and everyone else is going to hell causes segregation
types10000 1 year ago
@PlasteredDragon There is absolutely no death penalty for apostasy in Islam. There are 11 verses in the Quran discussing the act of leaving Islam, and NOT ONE OF THEM speak of any form of corporal punishment. In fact many verses in the Quran indicate religious freedom e.g. "There is no compusion in religion"(2:256) "And say, ‘It is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let him who will, believe, and let him who will, disbelieve.’"(18:29)
Asterius86 1 year ago
@PlasteredDragon And it is relevant because i watched Dipatches and Panarama episodes on what they teach, its so devisive and demonises women aswell as western values. Plus homosexuality is riff and hatred towards it is often islamic based. They are standing against our culture and why the hell do we still have faith schools????????
oliversenord 11 months ago
What about what I said is bullshit? lol I am gonna tell you the way your living is full of bull and untill you have a wakeup call you are gonna be doing the same way living they same and doing whatever you may do day after day "you people say you worship on this mountain I tell you we worship what we know salvation is from the jews"-Jesus
TheWoah57 1 year ago
@TheWoah57
Spewing bibleverses means nothing.
Until the bible is proven to be god's words, it's just 1 in a million religiously fanatic ramblings on all kinds of gods. The only reason you believe in YOUR particular god-myth is because you have been born into that faith or culture, and has been indoctrinated with ONLY that religion. You have zero evidence, thus, we atheists give you as much credit as any OTHER religious person, of ANY faith, who claims and asserts, but never proves.
tdjdk 1 year ago
apostrophe is handled with the death penalty....
,,,,,
MatMuir 1 year ago
@MatMuir I wonder how they treat the comma?
1n354a 1 year ago
Religion is a constant effort and we try to strive and it goes by us being Good
Jesus was without sin and faced a criminal death but the same God that raised him from the dead is here today and wants a relationship with you not a religion "For God so loved the world he gave his one and only son that whosoever believes on him shall not perish but have everlasting life"...........whatjesuswants(dot)me website coming soon
TheWoah57 1 year ago
@TheWoah57 You have perfect right to voice what you think. But I also have the right to call you up on it and tell you what your saying is unsubstantiated bullsh*t.
GeorgeEJWaites 1 year ago
Where are you going when you die?
whatjesuswants(dot)me
website is a work in process
TheWoah57 1 year ago
That muslim guy looks like Randy Marsh when he lies haha.....such a bullshitter
natzeeejesus 1 year ago 2
Muslims suck..... if they have a great life as the man said....why do they have to emigrate to other countries to live, specially when the countries are so different from their religion????..... They should stay in their wonerful countries full of muslims...
VOD713 1 year ago
religion is a scam. lie
mrblackout2000 1 year ago 15
@mrblackout2000 WORD!
MrNickChopper76 1 year ago
camel - jockeys aren't liberal ~ so their not pushd around easily ~
TJae1 1 year ago
google Doe's Account, mindblowing stuff
travismalk 1 year ago
@travismalk Right... Scientists usually don't know the difference between there, they're and their... They also write their there they're books like a good movie, don't give names for half the cast, but have no problem giving details on other people... Wake up!
Rawbdog 1 year ago
I happen to have personal first hand experience in this matter.
When I was little, and began to question, (in the most sincere, legitimate way), the ideas of god, and religion, I was reacted to with hostility, (by my parents), as if I was reaching unquestionable, unholy ground.
Luckily, instead scaring me, it made me suspicious. Bastards.
I guess it helped that they were bigots, too, because I trusted them less for it, and was thus less susceptible to the indoctrination.
TheDude72727 1 year ago
"What about the rights of the children themselves?"
"Well the rights of the children come when uuh- when they are a- eh- ehrm- as is.. eh- OLD enough to understand the issues.
Bah. A child cannot, and most likely will not ever have a proper understanding of the issues, if you raise them a certain faith.
That's what indoctrination does, it indoctrinates, and many people find it hard to break the mental shell that's been created for them since childhood.
TheDude72727 1 year ago 2
islamic bigot
mrshobiz 1 year ago
"well, let's bring the debate back into bababbale"
HSofRapture1 1 year ago
oh my god... 2:57
it made me laugh but it also killed me a little inside.
w-well, let's b-bring the debate back into-to Britain...
seriously? come on!
BeatNick13 1 year ago
that muslim guy is really holding back society, How do these people get their voice heard? He studders on every point made against him, and you can tell he is completely full of shit!
fakeaccount8455hr 1 year ago
I really like that he uses the word wicked.
mightyampersand 1 year ago
I love how Dawkins is the most emotional and irrational as well as arrogant and narrow minded out of these commentators!
lmolari 1 year ago
Even more narrow minded then the ones who publicly support killing those who disagree with them? They're called priorities.........straighten yours.
mightyampersand 1 year ago 7
A religion that teaches you to grow funny beards or use silly hats on your head must be wicked. lol
pcuimac 1 year ago
@pcuimac They're wizards now. That's how it works.
PinkandDeadly 1 year ago
Death for disagreement, exactly right - these children dont have a say in the matter and never will
AndrewTally 2 years ago 3
u retard
muizzi 1 year ago
@muizzi what you on about?
AndrewTally 1 year ago
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Confusious666 2 years ago
why did he keep asking about the penalty for leaving Islam? whats that got to do with faith schools? in this country muslim faith schools dont even teach that your not really allowed to teach that..... and if a faith school does then it is illegal........
m1a2j3i4k5 2 years ago
if the religion has something as FOOLISH as murder for leaving the religion, then it shouldn't be taught to children, or anyone else.
violator198666 2 years ago 4
@violator198666 death penalty is not given straight away as soon as some one announces apostasy their is exclusive private trail or court case to judge whether the person is sane or does he have any mental issues which relate to his family which have severely affected him this takes about a year or more than a year ad if he is still adamant on leaving then the penalty is carried out.
m1a2j3i4k5 2 years ago
@violator198666 the reason for death is not to scare the hell out of others but for that individuals not to influence others in doing sin in society. by the way this is not some kind fundamental principle which is preached all over the world. if you were to ask an ordinary muslim he/she would not know the penalty. it only occurs in countries where the shariah law is implemented and it is so rare its quite literally hard to find a case.
m1a2j3i4k5 2 years ago
shariah law is the law that is mandated by the muslim faith, in the sense of the christian levitican laws. the problem is , if you back a religion you don't just back it's "good" parts, you also endorse the awful,horrid,and downright childish laws that call for death if someone disagrees......
DEATH 4 disagreement......think about that.....seriously
violator198666 2 years ago
disagreeing to submit to believe in one god and his final messenger (pbuh) when the majority of people have would be considered by many illogical. however who question religion have never really discovered the true spiritual side of life. islam says that the satans objective in life is to destroy the concept of god with man. whether that individual be Christian or Muslim. so Islamic belief would state that man has been deceived by the devil to such an extent that he has no belief in god any more
m1a2j3i4k5 2 years ago
when others have found rational reasons to follow what god has prescribed then why is it that this individual wants to leave? so that is why I have explained that how long it takes for this judgement to take place. the individual needs to find his spiritual aspect of life which has disappeared this is because he has reduced doing good for the world which has dramatic affects on ones spirituality.
m1a2j3i4k5 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I have not studied many religions expect for Islam which but when I do read about other Abrahamic religions i always find the same objective which the Satan in any religion strives to achieve and that objective is to destroy the concept of god within a individual
m1a2j3i4k5 2 years ago
the biggest problem that i have with what your trying to say is that since everyone believes it, there is something to it. I simply must disagree. people thought you could fall off of the planet not that long ago, people were put to death for saying the earth may be round, or the sun was the center of the universe..... when you take things at face value without any investigation whatsoever , you cheat yourself. the muslim faith has everyone pointing to a meteorite to pray! you have 2 know this.
violator198666 2 years ago 2
what bollocks
ashishnandi85 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Its not good enough for Dawkins to have schools based on secular humanism. He wants to ban faith from even religious schools. He says kids are to young and its wicked to indoctrinate them.
This is the same man who funds atheist camps for children, who get indoctrinated into atheist philosophy as early as seven years old. Do I smell hypocrisy?
benthemiester 2 years ago
@benthemiester There's no such thing as "atheist philosophy ". An atheist simply doesn't believe in God. Trying to get atheists, like me, to all believe the same thing, is like trying to herd cats. What Dawkins is trying to foster in children is the development of their critical faculties. This mental development is what faith based schools try to stunt! Everyone is an atheist for the religion of most of humanity. Proper atheists just go one God further.
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 "atheist philosophy ". An atheist simply doesn't believe in God"
Unless you can prove that God doesn't exist as a fact your statement above is a philosophy & is just as faith based as any religious belief system. There are many different atheist organizations just as there are different denominations. The Brights, American Atheist org, American Secular Union, The Atheist Agenda,Fellowship of Freethought, North Texas Church of Freethought. There many more to numerous to mention.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester The burden of proof is on the person making the extraordinary claim ie an omniscient, omnipresent God. Where did that come from? It's no more a philosophy for me not to believe in God, than it is not to believe in the tooth fairy. If someone can prove to me that God exists, i'll be more than happy to do so. Proof doesn't mean quoting scripture, since I just view them as stories. I call myself an atheist rather than an agnostic, because I view that as fence sitting. Show evidence!
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 I would agree with you that the burden of proof would be on those who are proponents but the vast majority of religious beliefs in general just by their nature of faith make no attempt to prove Gods existence. I think their is an extraordinary amount of evidence in the statistical probability of the cosmological constants, the rare earth principles, and the digital encoded information and nano technology recently discovered in the genome. However evidence a can be very subjective.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@dalriada842 In Brittan there are also many places of fellowship & all over the world. I believe the Brights also exist there but include the
# British Humanist Association
# Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association
# Humanist Academy, Scotland
# Humanist Society of Scotland
# Leicester Secular Society, founded in 1851, bills itself as the "oldest secular society in the world."[11]
# National Secular Society
# North East Humanists
# Rationalist Association
# South Place Ethical Society, fo
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester I've never heard of most of these organisations. Thanks for pointing them out! I may look in to some of them. This doesn't prove they necessarily share views other than their lack of a belief in God. They could be social clubs. What do you believe are the defining characteristics of an "atheist philosophy"?
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 "This doesn't prove they necessarily share views other than their lack of a belief in God"
The same can be said for Christians or other polytheistic religions and denominations that all agree on a Supreme Creator and a universal architect. Einstein was a secular Jew yet even he believed in a Universal architect. Anthony Flew before he died renounced a life time of atheism for a Deist belief based on his research of Intelligent design and he continued to be an intellectual.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Having, admittedly, just skimmed through Flew's wiki' page, his belief in a Deist God, seems to stem from a "God is in the gaps" style argument. I'll read further on the matter, but appeals to authority have no sway with me. The fact that he was a prominent atheist who came to believe in a Deist God, does not mean he was correct in that belief. There is a certain amount of churn between people's religious beliefs, or lack thereof.
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 None of our beliefs can be quantified as being absolutely correct in scientific naturalism. I don't believe a God of the gaps argument is valid anymore.
Intelligent design is the view that the complexity and dynamics of living things can be better explained through an Intelligent causation than through unguided processes. This theory is based on our knowledge not on our ignorance. We know so much more now then when the modern synthesis was proposed. Flew understood this.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester "Intelligent design is the view that the complexity and dynamics of living things can be better explained through an Intelligent causation than through unguided processes." - How did this "Intelligent causation" come to exist? Isn't this even harder to explain than what it seeks to explain? The processes aren't "unguided". Natural selection is a very compelling mechanism. It doesn't just apply over millions of years, but can be seen on a human timescale, eg antibiotic resistance..
dalriada842 1 year ago
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benthemiester 1 year ago
@dalriada842 No 1 disputes natural selection, by the way, natural selection was actually a theory that incorporated an intelligent designer. It was Edward Blythe that first proposed it. Darwin took the credit. Again no one argues that animals don't change and adapt over time. Micro evolution is a known fact. Flies can develop resistance but their still flies. We can cultivate corn and bananas but their still corn and bananas. Most importantly the fossil record is not consistent with the theory.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester The scale of the changes are a matter of degree, not of kind. A large number of small changes, or a smaller number of large changes, combined with a change in the environment, will result in one species transforming into another, given enough time. Physical isolation of different groups will result in speciation. Genes may code for a single protein, or be a controlling gene at various levels.
In what way isn't the fossil record consistent with the theory? Fossil formation is rare.
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 It may be a shock to many, but we don't know enough about genes to make any case for macro evolution. Francis Collins recently said we have to rethink everything we thought we knew about the genome. Jerry Coyne admits this in his lecture The Locust of Evolution. Epigenetics has shown us that there is a whole universal network of gene regulators and we are barely beginning to scratch the surface on. This is mentioned in my video with S. Newman concerning the non gene centered view.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester ..in bacteria. Living creatures have many design flaws that make them good enough for survival, but hardly optimal. Case in point, the human eye, which has the blood supply to the retina obscuring vision. Why would an intelligent creator design such a flawed structure? Science doesn't deal with certainty.The God of the gaps argument isn't invalid just because we recognise the limitations of human thinking. It's just an attempt to attribute to God, those things we don't understand.
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 The human eye is exquisitely designed. The myth of bad design in the human eye has been debunked in recent years. Whats referred to as backward wiring is actually a plus. Our eyes have to be wired this way to provide nutrients to parts of the eye that require them. I have the paper if your interested in reading. Francisco Ayala said a human designer could do a better job. I asked him who this designer was and he could not answer, again I have paper if interested.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Yes I would be interested in reading them. Why couldn't the nutrients, and wiring, be provided from the rear of the retina? Cephalopods have a more sensible layout. I have read that there are space saving advantages in the backwards arrangement in small eyes, according to wikipedia. But that can't apply to animals as large as humans, if a God designed people.
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 You are reciting one of many theories with in a theory. Punctuated equilibrium is also another of several, but I'm speaking of observable evidence. Cephalopods live underwater and are not exposed to the same amount of UV light. There eyes function perfectly for their environment. If you know of anyone who has been able to transplant an eye of an octopus into a human or rewire the human eye for optimal vision please tell. I would be very interested. Humans can achieve 20/20 vision.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester The point I'm making about the cephalopod eye is that the light sensitive surface of the retina isn't obscured. Mammalian eyes are back to front as far as the retinal structure is concerned. Not evidence for a good conscious design. It's more likely the result of random mutation, and natural selection.
20/20 vision is merely the definition of average vision , for a human, not a measure of excellence. I have better than 20/20 vision after having laser surgery.
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada84 How did this "Intelligent causation" come to exist? Were planing to some day terraform Mars & seed it with life, maybe even use artificial life created life in test tube. Does that mean if these future potential living beings considered they were designed, would they be irrational? If a Supreme being created the Universe & was primary causation for big bang, then he exist outside of space & time, why would we still regard space and time restricted to our own limited understanding?
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester I doubt our civilisation will be terraforming Mars. Our civilisation, the western world, is self-destructing and circling the drain:(
It's not irrational to consider the possibility of an intelligent designer. It's irrational to believe it without adequate evidence.
We do have a limited understanding, but I don't see what believing in a God brings to the table.
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 Concerning Mars I was making an analogy and if you think I'm lying, key words, Mars terraforming. I believe there is overwhelming evidence. Have you ever studied the mathematics probabilities of the anthropic principle. Do you know what kind of ratios and perimeters make up the cosmological constants? Do you know why cosmologist call it the fine tuning problem? How do you explain digital code in the genome? You never answered why the Dissent list of scientist continues to grow.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Who said anything about lying! I just think that if Mars is terraformed, it'll be the Chinese or Indians who do it. The west doesn't have the drive anymore.
Check out AndromedasWake's channel and watch Creation Astronomy Propaganda for his take on fine tuning.
I hadn't heard about this list you mention. I'm not an evolutionary biologist. I can only
give my own opinion on matters I've read about.
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 "What do you believe are the defining characteristics of an "atheist philosophy"
Again it depends. There are just as many hypocrites in atheism as in any other religion, for example in the video above Dawkin's criticizes parents for indoctrinating children into their own beliefs. yet this is the same man who has financially supported Camp Quest. He calls these people evil yet he has never denounced his own parents who raised him as an Anglican. It's always the fault of others.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester I haven't heard Dawkins call parents evil. He calls the imposition of doctrine wicked. I agree with this. Children should be taught how to think for themselves, rather than have someone else's pre-digested beliefs foisted upon them.
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 Scientist are now staring to understand this. The Dissent from Darwin list has grown 8 fold in the last 8 years. Even the evo devos like Massimo Pigliucci are calling for a relaxation of the assumptions of the current synth and he and 15 other major players in evolution are proposing a new extended synth that's more Lamarck than Darwin. Even they have admitted the limitations of Darwinism. The problem is that the new model based on epigenetics is even less known than current model.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@dalriada842 I'm referring to the Altenberg 16 summit. If your more interested in this proposal which has caused a division & infighting in the evolutionary field. U should watch my video, Will the real Theory of Evolution please stand up, its a little more technical than your average trash talking video but most people aren't aware of this paradigm shift, including many college professors. There are many A, Flew's out there. Maybe u should here it from his own mouth instead of rely on others..
benthemiester 1 year ago
@dalriada842 The concept of bad design is really a philosophical one. We have been able to accomplish so much with these so called poorly designed bodies.
An intelligent agent doesn't necessarily guarantee the design to be perfect.
Just as intelligent car manufactures don't necessarily mean perfect cars.
If we could see for 100 miles someone would call the eye poorly designed because we could not see for 200 miles. If we could jump 100ft someone would complain we couldn't jump 200, & so on.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester You would expect an entity capable of creating a universe to be capable of doing a better job. Unless you believe that shoddy design was deliberately incorporated to test peoples faith:D
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 I'm assuming your a male. When you look at a beautiful women in all her feminine glory, do you say to yourself gee, I cant really enjoy this vision of loveliness because according to Darwinist my eye is wired the wrong way? How do you know that a cephalopods eye is superior to a humans eye based on observational evidence? If u have a human being and an octopus and both have optimal vision then how do you determine which is superior and what method would you use? Please cite study.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester I don't see the relevance of what you're writing to the slapdash structure of the eye. More generally than just human and cephalopod, you could look at numbers of rods, number and types of cone cells, pigmented filters, ability to detect polarised light, ability to change focus using the lens and/or cornea, presence of a tapetum lucidum etc. etc. Some species have better eyes in certain ways than others, human eyes compare poorly to many non-mammals.
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 "human eyes compare poorly to many non-mammals"
The human eye is designed for humans and it serves its niche. It is very practical and doesn't waste energy on anything that is not needed. If we could spot a rabbit as far as Eagle within a range of 30- 50 miles it would do us no good because by the time we got there the rabbit would be long gone, however for an eagle it serves its niche well. Life is exquisitely designed. Please cite an intelligent person who could do better.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester I'm obviously not explaining myself very well. Turning the argument around. What benefit is there to having all that 'wiring' obscuring the light sensitive cells in the retina? I already accept that life is adapted to its ecological niche. How does something that seems to me to be the result of an unplanned, unconscious process, in any way prove the existence of a God?
dalriada842 1 year ago
@dalriada842 No offense but I found the video a little silly and hardly unbiased. It was basically filled with insults and semantic double speak. I might remind you that the term the fine tuning problem is not a term coined by creationist but secular cosmologist. I think a much less biased and fair analysis would be the production of a The Privileged planet. It is not a religious video and deals only with science and observable evidence. I have never equated cosmology with Darwinism.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@dalriada842 Please tell me of anyone who can improve the human eye by wiring it any other way. Your argument is basically, because u wouldn't have done it that way, therefore its bad design. This is not scientific reasoning but philosophical reasoning. Your eyes allow u to read, write, detect danger, even tiny nuances in facial expressions. It has kept u out of harms way even though you don't realize it. Even people who are blind can live happy meaningful functional lives as well as procreate.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@dalriada842 And thanks for compliment. You pretty mellow yourself.
benthemiester 1 year ago
because to tell a child that the penalty for apostasy is death is to bully that child and scare them, intimidate them into staying in that religion. If that is what it says in the scripture (and to be honest i don't know if it is or not) then the school doesnt need to teach it, they just need to teach that the scripture is infallible, and the intimidation tactic is achieved. It's a valid point in my opinion, especially if this is in the scripture.
PlanetBongoSan 2 years ago 2
BUT scripture is NOT infallible. Scripture is part poetry, part bollox.
mmartini50 2 years ago 2
yes that's what i'm saying. read my post again :)
PlanetBongoSan 2 years ago
Great video amigo. See you.
LasserMauro 2 years ago
Who? Richard Dawkins?
bttrflykiss7701 2 years ago
I'm sorry. That's unfortunate. I do not agree with homeschooling whatsoever on almost all degrees. It is close-mindedness in its essence.
bttrflykiss7701 2 years ago
Indoctrination isn't really a choice. Mental abuse is still abuse, and many children are forced into the christian religion through deceptive means(as was I). I'll admit that many moderates and progressive christians aren't as bad, but look at some fundie rituals like demonic exorcisms. This stuff is far from harmless, and there have been cases involving injuries in recent years, with kids! Its blatently immoral.
MasterBlueTiger 2 years ago 2
I agree.
My parents came home with me being a Christian. I never said I wanted to be, but as well as I never said I didn't want to. I think that I should have rewinded my yearas of my life when they took me to the church and baptized me because I know what I want to be now, and I want to be who I want to be, not something my parents MADE me be. Who cares if they're my parents?
teenytinygirl 2 years ago 3
I think Prof Dawkins is correct that we should given childern the means to make their own informed decisions. The problem i have with faith school is that it is enforced segregation from those of other faiths and I believe this can led to racism, discrimination and misunderstanding.
piro6220 2 years ago 19