XxTheBlackSwanxX's (1) February 12, 2010, 10:38 AM

[RangerMcFriendlie]

Read about what happened to Saul in the OT when he used a medium to try and communicated with Samuel, or that the apostle Paul said the pagans were actually worshiping demons when they worshiped their idols. Christianity and the occult is like vinegar and oil, they don't mix. I know you said you don't take the Bible literally, but it's kind of silly since the Bible makes it explicitly clear that you should :P

other than that, I like your videos. You're really intelligent and I like listening 2u

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

@RangerMcFriendlie That is assuming that I in-fact worship idols in the first place. =3

Also, I am not a pagan, I am a Christian that takes deep consideration in the pagan roots of the bible while not deriving away from the fact that I am a Christian. I am very glad you have taken the time to respond to my video, thank you for your comment.

[RangerMcFriendlie]

@XxTheBlackSwanxX

Well thanks for replying back. You really should reconsider the spells and astrology or anything else. I wouldn't want you to open yourself up to evil spirits, that would be sad cause you're a nice lady ;(

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

@RangerMcFriendlie Your concern is very much appreciated and I understand where you are coming from. However I do believe that I am on a path that God intended me to be on and fear for my soul no more than any other mortal. I learn what is right and wrong in my studies, if I find something I know crosses the line, I am careful to avoid it.

[leespikex]

christianity stole from alot of religions they stole alot from wicca eg. the last day of the week is sunday this has been copied from wicca i would say in response to you is i am a wiccan i think you should be ablee to do any thing unless it harms a person if the cristian faith dose not say that then it is wrong the bible is wrong as long as it does not hurt any one dose it matter what you do?

[DarkAngelrace]

@leespikex Lol, please educate yourself. Yes, the days of the week are of PAGAN origin, Wicca is a new Neo - Pagan religion, its less than 100 years old, but has roots originating mostly in Celtic, Britannic Paganism. I think you just got the words Wicca and Pagan mixed up.

[purple89]

FUCK THOSE WITCHES

[infinitty88]

i like wicca(nature)but i love my religion Cristian i don t mind ppl beliving in other religions ....if the religions don t encourage you do do evil or sacrifice life its OK ... if the religion makes the ppl do good deeds im ok whit it:) i think that GOD will forgive ppl that belifin other religions if they don t do bad deeds ...LOVE

[byteXI]

What's the difference between praying to God for answers and searching for them in what he has created? Nothing except the stigma attached to the latter.

The funny thing is that the bible contains verses where important characters practice what might be considered "occult", such as prophecising, divination, astrology, sacrifice, etc. The foundation of much magick practices today are based on the work of Jewish mystics.

It's nice to see a well informed Christian for a change.

[QuestForSelf101]

I feel like I have way too much to say to you. All the things that you do down to every detail are the same things that I am doing. I am a Christian but I still study as well as practice things from the occult. There is nothing wrong with it but the trick is to not get to carried away from God. We must always be aware of our psychological processes.

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

But...i never said everyone was right...

However, I believe that good people will. Honestly, I just don't believe that God would send those sweet little Buddhist monks that sit around all day praying and petting tigers...to hell...i mean come.on. =^-^=

[droptozro]

No one is a "good person" Black Swan... do you know how GOOD God is?... do you know His Goodness that everyone seems to count on to get them into heaven will send them to Hell?

How "Good" would a human judge be in a court room that pardoned a man of obvious murder if he just apologized? Tell me how Just is that? We all deserve hell, I'm sorry to tell you... without Christ to cover their sins--Buddhists will go to hell, Buddhists follow a man's teachings on enlightenment(Gnostic?)--not God's.

[peaceandloveinaction]

@XxTheBlackSwanxX My thoughts exactly!

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

. His word is my guide and my own heart, mind, and soul are my walking stick.

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

First of all I am not saying that all paths lead to heaven, I am saying that some paths do. there is not only one. there are specific elements that should be followed but not a singular drone like perfect path. Jesus Christ died to save us and In my heart I believe I was given the knowledge and the inner light in which to choose for myself how best to serve the lord. I believe he has gifted me with a good understanding of how best to do things FOR ME----

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

I find it diffuclt to swallow that people who have left things out of the bible to help it fit their own life style judge me so fervently for doing the same thing. We all pick at the bible, because it is in fact so very very old. Some things need to be shifted to form around what is true todaym however the beaury of the bible is that so much is still salvigable after so long.

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

The bible is a doctrine writen a very long time ago. I believe that jesus christ would have wanted us to allow it to guide us into the changing lives of our future, not hold us in a perminant state of the past. There are things writen in the bible that conform to the needs to that specific time period and the need for them has faded, much cuz the definitions and terms of such have also changed.take me out back and burn me on a stake if they want to really do what the bible tells them.

[michalchik]

Try a Unitarian Universalist church. They are much more about living a spiritual life than finding people to despise and look down on.

King Solomon (the wise) son of David, practiced lots of ritual magic including the binding of demons.

BTW, you are very pretty.

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

Thank you =^^= I'm flattered.

[droptozro]

You seem to be drawing your own line BlackSwan, and in the end... I'm sorry, there IS something wrong with that. That is the issue with most people... we draw our own lines... when in reality, that isn't going to hold up on judgment day... what matters, is what God thinks. Christ's apostles reaffirm that sorcery is not of God no matter how it looks... I will pray you repent and turn to Christ for guidance, not your own beliefs.

[michalchik]

Everyone has to use their own judgment ultimately. You decide what church to go to, what interpretations to buy into, what preachers to listen to, which passages of the Bible are most relevant and important to your life now what moral laws take precedence. There are literally thousands of versiojns of Christianity and almost no doctrine is agreed on except that you must listen to the words of Jesus. Black Swan listens to the words of Jesus.

[droptozro]

"Everyone has to use their own judgment ultimately" --I'm sorry, but that's a lie--find that in the Bible, I want Christ to be my judge and determine my doctrines/beliefs. If Black Swan was listening to the words of Jesus and His apostles(who don't have precedence over or above, but still hold true) she would not be dealing with pagan arts--nor would any other Christian.

Michal--you've fallen into a univeralist lie--and that church you propogate will send more to hell if any to heaven.

[michalchik]

Your want to have Christ save you relies on your judgment, your decision to use the a bible as a source of authority relies on your judgment, your belief to dismiss the universalist interpretation of the bible relies on your judgment. Your decisions may use outside sources, but your judgment is always in the middle of every decision. Sorry, but all positions you take are the result of decisions based on your judgment. You can't get away from that.

[droptozro]

@michalchik

and you and the above have clearly deceived yourselves. It's "God's will be done," not "my will be done."

Here's a simple question, if all paths lead to heaven, why did Christ suffer and die?

[michalchik]

Did I say all paths lead to heaven, because I definitely do not think that? I really don't think you are understanding what I am saying. I am saying, you chose the path you are on using your own judgment. You may want to chose the path of Christ, but you use your judgment to decide which path that is. Your own judgment of what it says in the bible and what the holy-spirit is directing you to do is the always in play. There are thousands of christian creeds in this world, you have chosen one.

[droptozro]

@michalchik

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the light, no one comes to the Father except through me"

Yes I chose, but I question you... why did Christ die? The fact that there are thousands of denominations and creeds are men's pride... the simple truth of the Gospel is complicated by men. Originally if you research, there was ONE truth by knowledge of Christ... THEN came heresies that gave way to more heresy... and obviously what we have today is--EVERYONEs gona be in heaven.

[michalchik]

The way you keep going back to it it seems like you are afraid of the idea that too many people you disagree with will go to heaven, but that is not my point or most peoples. You have used your judgment to chose to believe that the gospel is simple, that the best explanation is men complicated it, and the creed you have chosen is certainly the right one, and the Bible you have chosen is the best available translation. Jesus never said that following him would be easy or mindless.

[droptozro]

@michalchik

So michal, what's your take on Paul telling the Corinth church that anyone who teaches a gospel other than his gospel and the one that they've heard--is wrong, and that person is to be eternally damned? Does that not point to the fact that there is one gospel only? Do you think the gospel that says everyone's going to be saved is what Paul claims? He says pretty clearly in that same letter, idolaters will not inherit the kingdom... what's your take then?

[michalchik]

My take on it is this. That passage has been used by many different churches to claim that their way is the only way. This include that Catholics (the largest denomination, the eastern orthodox larger than any American denomination, and then many different protestant denominations which disagree with one another about how to get saved. Like you they all use their judgment. I pay attention to what Jesus said and understand the historical basis of the political struggle Paul was in.

[droptozro]

The Bible is quite clear, Christ is the only way to God... without Him, no one will inherit the Kingdom.

What are the essentials... Christ is your Lord and Savior, meaning submission to His will, as Christ Himself claimed you must pick up your cross and follow Him... you must deny yourSELF and follow Him or He claims He will deny you.

I agree that some things in the Bible are not written specifically to all, but to understand who they're written to helps a great deal... (cont)

[droptozro]

If Christ is saying "in the day of judgment," it's quite clear He's speaking about all people.

Catholics were originally on the right path with the Early Church Fathers until Augustine mainstreamed Christianity... it was fused with pagan rituals, beliefs, and now they teach blatant contradictions to Christ's words... sorry, the Catholics will send many to hell..most have no idea what's in their catechisms.

Nope, haven't read it all...but I won't proof-text either, I get context.

[michalchik]

Reread what you just wrote me, and then ask yourself if you really are qualified to pass such judgments.

[droptozro]

@michalchik

Am I qualified? Have I taken the plank out of my own eye? Yes. I was in the past what some might consider a "carnal" Christian. I never said individual people are going to hell, as if I have that judgment... only said their beliefs and paganism will send many there who follow heretical doctrines.

michal... it says quite clearly, "you will know them by their fruit." I choose to fellowship with Christians who walk in Christ's footsteps--preach to all, keep the commandments.

[michalchik]

Sigh... I am sorry to hear that.

[droptozro]

@michalchik

So, michal... do you really think Christians are not supposed to judge? I'd like to hear your take on it...

[michalchik]

I think pride in piety is a dangerous game. Perhaps you are more righteous than any man I know, but I would first humble myself before the words of Jesus and realize how serious they are.

M7:1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

J8:7 "If any one of you is without sin, let him ... throw a stone at her."

M5:22 anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

[droptozro]

@michalchik

Ah yes michal... but why do you leave out the last part? or the context? see this is the issue... especially for one who is telling me I should read the Bible more carefully.

M7:5"Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eyes, THEN you will be fit to judge" Christ was against hypocritical judgment, and as for John's quote... Christ was again speaking to the hypocritical Pharisees.

Did I call you a fool? If I did, show me, I don't see it at the moment.

[michalchik]

I left it out because I ran out of space. You did not literally use the word fool, but again you might want to reread your posts and see the implications.

[droptozro]

I just re-read through them again... don't see it, so you tell me... where do you see "implied" slander? Here's a good question, is heretic slander? Our apostles used it, it sure sounds like slander... but if it's the truth, is it wrong?  People who sleep outside of marriage once are called whores or whoremongers in the Bible... it sounds like slander, but it's rightly so... isn't it?

No scripture is of private interpretation... the first apostles didn't even have Bibles... they had the OT

[michalchik]

But perhaps the more important question you need to ask yourself is. Why are you here talking to me and criticizing her if you have not read the whole Bible carefully?

[droptozro]

@michalchik

Why am I here... because it's God's will that all are to be saved, and we're called to do God's will... so telling people the truth, while it's an offense, is my duty as a Christian, just as it should be yours.

Do you wish to rethink your judgment call? How about "The spiritual man judges all things"-in Proverbs if I remember correctly, not sure where. We're called to do righteous judgment by Christ.

I'm not a better person than anyone, I just want others to do the same.

[michalchik]

The question was not "why are you here?" The question was, why are you here when you have not completed the most basic level study a Christian can do. But honestly, if you don't think the points I have made are relevant to you, that is your final judgment and there is probably nothing more to say. I do not know you heart, I do not know what if anything still blinds you, and I can not say what the right path for you is.

[droptozro]

In my truest sincerity michal, I ask you--if we're all supposed to be of one mind and doctrine, why are there hundreds of thousands? Do you think someone's got it right in there though? Do you ever stop and think why all street preachers sound the same? Maybe because they all have Christ? ...so most of them are speaking God's words, not their own?

So if the first Christians all had the same doctrine, why don't you research them? see if they all were in unison for yourself.

[michalchik]

I don't claim to have any deep expertise in the area, but the first Christians seemed to be a very divided group. That is a big part of why Paul wrote the Corinthians, and and even bigger part of the Counci of Nicaea where many gospels were rejected. The subsequent holy wars where many "heresies" were "purged", the great schism between east, west and coptic churches, the suppression of the gnostics and the books of the nag hammadi, then the reformation that thew out 20+ books circa 1500 C.E.

[droptozro]

You should read through the early church fathers work then... they were NOT divided. Google "early church fathers"... it's the top link---the Nicene councils introduced heresies, suffice to say due to Augustine's false conversion as he was a gnostic and brought those beliefs into the church. Read through them, they offer some great insight--these men were not divided... they were strong and as far as I've found---completely in unison. They are not scripture, but they are helpful.

[michalchik]

Thanks for the link. It looks interesting. I will read it as I have time but there is a lot there and I am familiar with some of it. You should realize though, that the "early church fathers" are not the elders of all Christians. They are the elders that agreed with what later became the orthodoxy, so by definition the elders that disagreed were excluded. Even then there was confusion see "Theology Adrift: The Early Church Fathers and Their Views of Eschatology"

[droptozro]

I will look at that, but does it deal with the basics? You could also look at David Bercot's "A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs" to see a compiled list of quotes on what they all believed on certain subjects... again, in unison that I've found so far. Eschatology is a rough subject... I used to delve into it, but it made me feel like giving up life in the past... so I had to get out of it.

I just wish to recognize the importance of reading what men who worked with our apostles said.

[michalchik]

You have to realize that your own limited human judgment is what you use to determine which is the path to God, how narrow that path is,whether someone else is on that path and most importantly, what are the essential elements of that path. I am not arrogant enough to believe that my judgment is infallible and I can read God's mind when hundreds of millions of Christians can't. Remember the first deadly sin is pride. Let me ask you this. Have you read the whole bible and which version?

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

So are you saying that your the only one that's got it right? I have not denied jesus christ.....so....um, what's the point you are trying to make?

[droptozro]

@XxTheBlackSwanxX

No, never said I was the only one that had it right. Obviously, the Bible says not everyone's going to heaven.

The issue is simple logic, 2 + 2 = 4... right? Can it ever equal 5?

If an atheist believes nothing happens after he/she dies, there's a chance he could be wrong. So the law of non-contradiction shows SOMEONE has to be right... not everyone can be right. 2 + 2 is not going to equal 5, not everyone's going to heaven... "broad is destruction, narrow to life"

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

Weell spoken. Thank you!

[XxTheBlackSwanxX]

I pray your mind and eyes open a bit and you are encompassed by the light of God in a way that will deeply suprise you.

[MrVisions]

Nice energy. I find the older you get the more you leave labels behind, well for me anyway. The recreational and conversational aspects of occult lore are both stimulating, spirit enriching and from a societal aspect, educational. I find most of the rituals I used to perform have been replaced by a shear respect and admiration for nature and seeing myself as its equal not its owner. As for worship now, I take my comfort in the inexhaustible beauty and nourishment found in the bible. Peace

[Tcrowaf]

I think the more relevant question is "can you practice the occult and still consider yourself a sane individual?"

[michalchik]

If you ask that question you have to ask also can you practice religion and be sane. Prayer and spells have little difference if you think about them. I think most psychologists woud agree that religious people are sane even if their beliefs are not necessarily rational.

[Tcrowaf]

I agree that both beliefs comport with reality equally. I would argue that religious behavior is culturally acceptable, therefore subject to less scrutiny. To practice the occult, something widely thought of as "false," and determine it to be true, a rational individual would make an honest assessment of it. You might even say that it would have a larger burden of proof.

[michalchik]

Well, in an abstract sense I might agree, but the ideological flexibility and range of emotional sensitivity I personally have seen in practitioners in the occult. make them both nicer to be around and more adaptable. Every society and religion has had a minority involved in personal ritual magic and they are much less of a threat to free-thought. look at the roles that fundis vs new-agers play in politics.

[Tcrowaf]

We are now treading into making a value judgement rather than a truth judgement. I'll agree that their belief is less harmful if that is your only point.

[michalchik]

That is pretty much my point, but I don't want to be that condescending. I think there is value in subjective experiences that can augment what a person brings to the way they approach real life. Black-swan seems like the kind of person that can be a better person for her "spiritual" approach to life.

I hope also what she has to say resonates with open minds in the christian community that would otherwise feel hemmed in by dogma.

[BlueFireWitch]

I agree with you alot in this video. I did a unity ritual in Chicago and it was a very good experience. This ritual had Christians and many different traditions of Pagans. There are age old Christian Occult traditions throughout the ages and they had similar philosophies.