i study the older version of ITF Taekwon-Do, so many of the standard sine wave schools says the hip twist is incorrect but I rather enjoy the hip twist because of its simularities to karate, but its still ITF TKD lol
@h0rangi firstly,they arent poomsae,they are called tul in the only style that uses sine wave.They do not develope any of the things you mention effectively.
@h0rangi bouncing doesnt add power,its a waste of energy and unuseable in fighting.The sine wave is only used for hand techniques.ITF stylists would very rarely spar a thai stylist but if they did the reason they wouldnt do well is due to lack of real contact in their sparring and poor boxing and no grappling,not to mention no low kicks
sine wave is merely a ploy cooked up by Choi near the end to differentiate and make more money off seminars. Any movement not in the direction of the target is wasted energy. It is simple physics: Force=Mass x Acceleration in a specific direction.
Man are you a cynic or what? Did you stop to think that Choi was aiming to improve taekwon-do by implementing Sine Wave Theory of Power? The fact that he continued to nip and tuck at taekwon-do at his advanced age is a testament to his continual research.
How is bouncing up and down and improvement of power? I agree adding artificial weight, knee spring, and hip twist implement power but a lot of moves are unnecessary, the bouncing up and down through each technique can be minimized and direct movement added to increase power. A straight line technique is more powerful than one that has a lot of fancy bounces, however the latter may just look prettier. Do new-age ITF practitioners use sine-wave when sparring?
A) not fancy bounces, but a specific movement called a sine wave. b) as with hip twist technique it can be incorrectly or correctly applied to add power to a technique. No point getting into a lengthy argument about which is better, thats just the way martial arts are. My contention is that it's no real argument to suggest Genral Choi cooked up the whole idea merely to seperate his taekwon-do from other systems. Otherwise he would have done so right from the very beginning of TKD.
Sine wave is a new invention, how do you know Choi didn't cook it up to differentiate Taekwondo from other martial arts at the time in the 70s? Sine-Wave has no practical value, albeit patterns don't really either, but at least if you practice patterns using a practical methodology, you will at least develop proper muscle memory as oppose to "OH NO I HAVE TO THROW A PUNCH, OKAY DIP THE KNEE, LIFT THE HEEL OFF THE GROUND, ROCK AND PU-" At that point you just got hit in the face.
@jinglebearr sine wave began to be taught in the early 80s to the official itf group.It has no practiacl value and I guarantee choi never properly researched anything in tkd scientificallyalthough he keeps referring to how it was scientifically developed.The muscle memory developed doing patterns is 1 which cant be used in sparring or self defense so its a hindrance not help.
@billysue2 I totally agree on the fact that sine wave is mostly a theoretical tool, hardly not applicable for self defense and sparring. ITF patterns aim at full use of power of human body, utilizing e.g. sine wave, breathing. They do not try to demonstrate realistic fighting sequences. Training patters contribute to the overall development of martial art skills with improved balance and control, coordination of legs and hands, and improved consciousness. I enjoy challenges they offer.
@vaijones2002 well choi changed the karate style dobok around the same time he changed the patterns so its plausible thats why he created the sine wave.I was at seminars in the 80s where it was continually stressed we werent doing karate and so shouldnt twist the hips.It has no scientific basis,thats for sure.
Depends on the situation, but I have definately used it in sparring while throwing punches. Usually, however, in TKD you want speed and not power, so adding the wave to sparring is not as important as when you do tul or board-breaking
@veshkeat if your technique is correct and you have speed then maximum power is produced anyway.You always want power in tkd.The sine wave cant be used in sparring or any real situation.It can be used in breaking since thats completely unrealistic.Dropping bodyweigt isnt the sine wave by the way as ive heard lots of itf lads claim that.
@vaijones2002 its a testament to the fact he was never qualified to develope any art in the first place.He had a few years shotokan and studied taekyon as a teenager,would you reckon thats a credible background.It was all because of his military status and leadership ability,there were far better martial artists in the kwans at the time.
I've seen a few ITF patterns now and I find them to be very powerful and expressive. One thing I don't understand though: I see many of the people sort of bobbing up and down in between movements instead of maintaining an even level. Is this intentional, or a common mistake?
@blackrussian9 yeah thats why ITF TKD its different from WTF TKD apart from the use of punchs. these movements are called floating movements or waving movements..
@blackrussian9 The bobbing motion is called "Signwave". The idea is that you're putting your body weight and momentum behind your technique. Most of your motions should have a slightly downward angle to help achieve that. I personally don't agree with the philosophy behind it, but it is the technically appropriate way of performing the tul.
Mark Hutton, julia Cross and Suska for my money are the best out there, by best i mean poise, leg control, being technically correct and laid out by The General, and able to do all this with power
Asweran, Can you please post up a video of this 2nd dan preforming this pattern? I love this pattern, Its my favorite one out of the all the ITF patterns. Not a bad pattern preformed by him, nice and solid. I have seen better though.
i love this tul! and this instructor has a great performance..
williamangeles 6 months ago
i study the older version of ITF Taekwon-Do, so many of the standard sine wave schools says the hip twist is incorrect but I rather enjoy the hip twist because of its simularities to karate, but its still ITF TKD lol
ninjastorm 1 year ago
A very exceptional performance. your twist kicks are fantastic. sometimes i feel like I'm the only one who uses them during sparring.
Raitsogen 1 year ago
@h0rangi firstly,they arent poomsae,they are called tul in the only style that uses sine wave.They do not develope any of the things you mention effectively.
billysue2 1 year ago
@h0rangi bouncing doesnt add power,its a waste of energy and unuseable in fighting.The sine wave is only used for hand techniques.ITF stylists would very rarely spar a thai stylist but if they did the reason they wouldnt do well is due to lack of real contact in their sparring and poor boxing and no grappling,not to mention no low kicks
billysue2 1 year ago
Comment removed
onmitsu9 2 years ago
sine wave is merely a ploy cooked up by Choi near the end to differentiate and make more money off seminars. Any movement not in the direction of the target is wasted energy. It is simple physics: Force=Mass x Acceleration in a specific direction.
jinglebearr 3 years ago
Man are you a cynic or what? Did you stop to think that Choi was aiming to improve taekwon-do by implementing Sine Wave Theory of Power? The fact that he continued to nip and tuck at taekwon-do at his advanced age is a testament to his continual research.
vaijones2002 2 years ago 6
How is bouncing up and down and improvement of power? I agree adding artificial weight, knee spring, and hip twist implement power but a lot of moves are unnecessary, the bouncing up and down through each technique can be minimized and direct movement added to increase power. A straight line technique is more powerful than one that has a lot of fancy bounces, however the latter may just look prettier. Do new-age ITF practitioners use sine-wave when sparring?
jinglebearr 2 years ago
A) not fancy bounces, but a specific movement called a sine wave. b) as with hip twist technique it can be incorrectly or correctly applied to add power to a technique. No point getting into a lengthy argument about which is better, thats just the way martial arts are. My contention is that it's no real argument to suggest Genral Choi cooked up the whole idea merely to seperate his taekwon-do from other systems. Otherwise he would have done so right from the very beginning of TKD.
vaijones2002 2 years ago
Sine wave is a new invention, how do you know Choi didn't cook it up to differentiate Taekwondo from other martial arts at the time in the 70s? Sine-Wave has no practical value, albeit patterns don't really either, but at least if you practice patterns using a practical methodology, you will at least develop proper muscle memory as oppose to "OH NO I HAVE TO THROW A PUNCH, OKAY DIP THE KNEE, LIFT THE HEEL OFF THE GROUND, ROCK AND PU-" At that point you just got hit in the face.
jinglebearr 2 years ago
Well, I don't agree with you at all.
vaijones2002 2 years ago
@jinglebearr sine wave began to be taught in the early 80s to the official itf group.It has no practiacl value and I guarantee choi never properly researched anything in tkd scientificallyalthough he keeps referring to how it was scientifically developed.The muscle memory developed doing patterns is 1 which cant be used in sparring or self defense so its a hindrance not help.
billysue2 1 year ago
@billysue2 I totally agree on the fact that sine wave is mostly a theoretical tool, hardly not applicable for self defense and sparring. ITF patterns aim at full use of power of human body, utilizing e.g. sine wave, breathing. They do not try to demonstrate realistic fighting sequences. Training patters contribute to the overall development of martial art skills with improved balance and control, coordination of legs and hands, and improved consciousness. I enjoy challenges they offer.
ollileino 10 months ago
@vaijones2002 well choi changed the karate style dobok around the same time he changed the patterns so its plausible thats why he created the sine wave.I was at seminars in the 80s where it was continually stressed we werent doing karate and so shouldnt twist the hips.It has no scientific basis,thats for sure.
billysue2 1 year ago
Depends on the situation, but I have definately used it in sparring while throwing punches. Usually, however, in TKD you want speed and not power, so adding the wave to sparring is not as important as when you do tul or board-breaking
veshkeat 2 years ago
@veshkeat if your technique is correct and you have speed then maximum power is produced anyway.You always want power in tkd.The sine wave cant be used in sparring or any real situation.It can be used in breaking since thats completely unrealistic.Dropping bodyweigt isnt the sine wave by the way as ive heard lots of itf lads claim that.
billysue2 1 year ago
@vaijones2002 its a testament to the fact he was never qualified to develope any art in the first place.He had a few years shotokan and studied taekyon as a teenager,would you reckon thats a credible background.It was all because of his military status and leadership ability,there were far better martial artists in the kwans at the time.
billysue2 1 year ago
I've seen a few ITF patterns now and I find them to be very powerful and expressive. One thing I don't understand though: I see many of the people sort of bobbing up and down in between movements instead of maintaining an even level. Is this intentional, or a common mistake?
blackrussian9 3 years ago
That's intentional way of performing tul in tkd itf.
stern75 3 years ago 2
@stern75
only one form of international... TAGB Tae Kwon Do doesnt use sinewave and neither did the General who was one of the founders of the form
darkedge3 1 year ago
@blackrussian9 yeah thats why ITF TKD its different from WTF TKD apart from the use of punchs. these movements are called floating movements or waving movements..
maxkay3 1 year ago
@blackrussian9 hey moon moo is bacl belt pattern right?
debingkas91 1 year ago
@blackrussian9 The bobbing motion is called "Signwave". The idea is that you're putting your body weight and momentum behind your technique. Most of your motions should have a slightly downward angle to help achieve that. I personally don't agree with the philosophy behind it, but it is the technically appropriate way of performing the tul.
MindenburndMaster 9 months ago
Moon-Moo is one of the nicest patterns to watch.....it may not be the nicest to do though, well done
douglaschristietkd1 3 years ago
Is it possible to have a 'best in the world' when all these separate organisations have contrasting ideas of what comprises correct technique?
micirv20 3 years ago
Mark Hutton, julia Cross and Suska for my money are the best out there, by best i mean poise, leg control, being technically correct and laid out by The General, and able to do all this with power
wenwu 3 years ago
nicely done
MyVeyronDream 4 years ago
great control, performed excellent.
jcba1122334455 4 years ago
Master Scott McNeely has a good take with Moon Moo here on youtube. He is the best non-Asian taekwondo technician in the world. ITF GTF ect...
crenshawone 4 years ago
"THE best?" Anyone who is a true martial artist would know better than to make a statement like this. How flippin arrogant and childish.
geminilegend 4 years ago
Im talking about true technique, checkout his bio. It's clear that you do not know technique and perhaps a bit childish yourself.
crenshawone 4 years ago
he has 5th dan but his technics are awfull
Vlad2TKD 4 years ago
thanks mate
wenwu 4 years ago
i've seen better too, if anybody outthere has a video of Mark Hutton from scotland or Jaroslaw Suska from poland that would be great
wenwu 4 years ago
Jaroslav Suska is present here :). Just search :)
stern75 4 years ago
@stern75 can u help me find jaraslav suska present the black belt itf pattern in youtube?
debingkas91 1 year ago
Asweran, Can you please post up a video of this 2nd dan preforming this pattern? I love this pattern, Its my favorite one out of the all the ITF patterns. Not a bad pattern preformed by him, nice and solid. I have seen better though.
HotKebab 4 years ago
Iv seen better patterns. MY person who is a 2nd Dan that can perfect this pattern
asweran 4 years ago