Crew Review: Breville Dual Boiler - BES900XL

[spital911]

hi Kat, your favorite customer hehehe any time will this bad boy go on sale or down in price? thanks :)

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@spital911 I don't think they will for awhile, if at all; generally, sales are for things that they can't get rid of ;) and Breville is having a hard time keeping up with demand as it is so...I doubt we'll see any sales any time soon. - Kat

[AntonioDavidPickett]

How much?

[dcchristopher]

Wow, this is one of the most comprehensive reviews I have seen on this product yet. Short of doing a professional cleaning, you covered all the bases. I especially appreciated the details like the lockable caster and the compartment with all the tools, plus the pre-infusion setting changes. Why haven't I seen this stuff in the Breville videos? Great job ladies. I want me one of these machines ... bad!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@dcchristopher Thanks!! Glad to hear we covered everything you needed to know :) - Kat

[Gosso1au]

Hopefully getting my Dual Boiler early next week :D Love All You Guys @ Seattle Coffee Gear your my favourite youtube channel :D

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@Gosso1au Yay!!! and thanks :) - Kat

[betterhalfservices]

@Gosso1au hi hows your dual boiler? are you happy with it?

[davidpascalehague]

Also it would be great to have a video of you and Gail trying out different preinfusion times and pressures!! Keep up these great videos!!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@davidpascalehague I'll put it on the list! - Kat

[davidpascalehague]

Kat!!!! Love all your vids with Gail! I'm very interested in this breville. I've read online though people are having trouble with the OPV. Have you experienced this?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@davidpascalehague There is about a 5% manufacturing error rate right now; Breville are testing and fixing these now before shipping them out and working with the factory to determine the issue. Should be solved at present but they are swapping machines straight out with anyone experiencing this. - Kat

[citiauctions]

OK I just got this Lamborghini.. this is a winner by all means!!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@citiauctions Vroom vroom yay!!!! :D - Kat

[joeldamianicigan]

There is a YouTube video showing a shot using a bottomless portafilter for this machine. Weirdly enough, the barrista is using a Wilson overgrip.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@joeldamianicigan Hahaha - cool. Yeah, you probably can hack something together but there is nothing manufacturer created - Kat

[joeldamianicigan]

It doesn't have an anti-burn steam wand either... Not as pretty of a machine compared to the Rockets. Good pricepoint though but you get what you pay for, right?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@joeldamianicigan Yeah, it's a great value and performs really well for a machine at this price point -- better than any others in this range. - Kat

[joeldamianicigan]

Are they going to make a triple shot basket for this machine along with a bottomless portafilter? That's unfortunate that those baskets aren't available for this machine...

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@joeldamianicigan Nothing in the pipeline about it although we have requested...so we'll see. - Kat

[joeldamianicigan]

Are you saying that this is the machine to purchase now?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@joeldamianicigan Do I ever say that? Nope! Everything has got good and bad, so you need to decide if it works for you :) - Kat

[joeldamianicigan]

Thanks for the info! I may wait to buy to see what the next Rocket Giotto looks like. Someone was saying they're about to be released sometime soon. I don't know if I'd want one if the steaming function isn't that powerful. Hmm...

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@joeldamianicigan It does make latte art quality milk though without much effort on your part so that is definitely nice :) - Kat

[joeldamianicigan]

Can't you use the bottomless portafilter of the Rocket Giotto on this machine since they're both 58mm? Doesn't seem like you'd recommend it over a Rocket machine.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@joeldamianicigan Nope; there's more to portafilters than simply diameter; their tab positioning and size need to line up in order to engage with the group head. I think that, for the $, it's a great choice. - Kat

[joeldamianicigan]

Bottomless portafilter I mean.... Can this machine take the new VST baskets since it's 58mm? Do you think it's the machine to beat? Seems to have a full featureset...

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@joeldamianicigan No bottomless PF yet; the shots are good, the steaming function is not as powerful as on the larger boiler machines. - Kat

[joeldamianicigan]

Does this machine come with a blind filter basket? How does it compare to the Rocket Giottos? Seems to be alot cheaper at $1,200.00

[citiauctions]

Just bought this machine, should arrive in a few days. I'm excited. Let's see how it does compared to my BES830XL

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@citiauctions I think you're going to be very pleasantly surprised :D - Kat

[betterhalfservices]

@citiauctions hi hows your dual boiler? are you happy with it?

[henrihenrynl]

yea, its getting there, i think the next step is, you buy a Breville Smart Grinder and a machine like this and instead using the limited display u simply use some kind of DLNA or airplay technology and controll the settings and buttons with your android or iphone smartphone and the app sends email orders to SCG for coffee suply and service hihihi

[jasonhilton]

For a double boiler it looks like it takes an awful long time to steam. How does the steam compare to other machines?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@jasonhilton The boiler is definitely smaller than other double boilers on the market, with steam boilers that are generally twice the size of this one. - Kat

[1clee1]

Wondering what type of grinder would be appropriate for this machine? Would Breville's Smart Grinder be good enough?  Rocky? Or do we have to be at least at the Vario level?

[fastfolky]

@1clee1 I don't think it works like that, I think every machine from the Silvia up can make a better cup when you give it a better grinder at least up until the Vario level.

So, I would say that any grinder that can grind an espresso level of coarseness grind will work (on this machine) but giving this machine a grinder below the Vario level will not make it perform as well as it can.

The question is however...will you taste the difference? :)

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@1clee1 I concur with @fastfolky -- anything from a Virtuoso on up will work/will go fine enough, but the more you drop on the grinder, the better the grind quality, the improved overall taste at the end of the day. - Kat

[1clee1]

@SeattleCoffeeGear @fastfolky - thanks. I guess if I already have a Rocky, it wouldn't be advised to sell it and buy the Smart Grinder (for cash reasons)? Also - would be great to get a video on what the Rocky teflon mod people talk about actually is.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@1clee1 Yeah, I'd hang onto the Rocky! It would work great, I think. Rocky teflon mod? Not sure what that is :/ - Kat

[CoffeeGeek]

Nice look-see at the new Breville!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@CoffeeGeek Thanks!

[aus6321]

Do you carry a blind portafilter that fits this machine?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@aus6321 It comes with an insert to do backflushing, making the basket 'blind', but it doesn't have a specific portafilter for the task - Kat

[aus6321]

@SeattleCoffeeGear - thanks... How about a bottomless portafilter - do you sell one that

fits/works ?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@aus6321 Not currently; the tabs of the models that we have don't line up quite right, unfortunately. Hoping they'll release one! :) - Kat

[aesonvirus]

And let's wait 5-10 years before comparing any Breville to a Rocket.

I plan on owning my Rocket 20 years from now. As compelling as this machine is, Breville has much work to do before regaining trust in terms of reliability.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@aesonvirus I totally agree; but I think this is the product that they are introducing to change their own game, internally. From what I have experienced regarding development and support, their goal is to change their reputation in this space and be a solid manufacturer of equipment you can personally invest in and maintain for years to come. So I'm hopeful; but I'm not the CEO, so I can't make any commitments ;) - Kat

[renix]

@aesonvirus I'm having the same conversation below.

[fastfolky]

Wow, this is a really nice machine and the price ( ~1200 US) is very competitive as well. This is the first machine that I have ran into after my Rocket purchase that makes me think I would rather have this one (in the same price range that is).

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@fastfolky It is a tough call!! But your machine is so lovely and I'm sure you'll be happy with it for a nice, long time. - Kat

[achuter]

FYI, this machine was designed in Australia. All us Aussies should stand tall. Contrary to popular perception, we are not a nation of outback sheep shearing, cattle driving crocodile hunters. Australia is the most urbanized country in the world, and we love nothing more than sitting around a footpath sipping coffee. Meanwhile our Murdoch controlled conservative media criticizes us for being latte socialists.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@achuter I didn't realize this was the stereotype -- but then I have had many Aussie friends so I guess I wouldn't have one :) Breville is really doing some great work revamping their coffee equipment and we're excited to see what they introduce next! - Kat

[ultraman8899]

Anyone knows the release date in Europe for this machine?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@ultraman8899 I'll touch base with them to see if they have an ETA - Kat

[ultraman8899]

@SeattleCoffeeGear

Thanks

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@ultraman8899 Unfortunately, no ETA right now; they are focusing on filling demand in Australia and the US and will then move into the European market, but they are not sure when. Their head of international distribution said he'd drop me a note if/when they have plans to expand it into other countries. Sorry I don't have better news! - Kat

[aesonvirus]

PiercedCub32... get the Giotto!

I absolutely love my Cellini Evo. Best thing I have done for myself in many many years. I haven't stepped foot in a coffee shop since this thing arrived months ago as they don't hold a candle to what I'm enjoying for coffee now.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@aesonvirus That is so awesome to hear! Yeah, once you can make awesome coffee at home...what reason is there to leave? ;) - Kat

[luizzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Wow, what a nice machine! I just bought a Gaggia, non presurized filters, but I have no grinder... One more sad history from me.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@luizzzzzzzzzzzzzz Definitely your next step! :) - Kat

[PiercedCub32]

ugh oh, perhaps my dream of owning a Giotto are changing.. LOL I can't believe for the bang this machine offers, they forgot the anti burn steam wand! ;o(

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@PiercedCub32 I think it would be a little rough to have the insulated steam wand on this, given its steam power; it doesn't have a ton of juice, so making the width smaller would definitely impact the performance - Kat

[ronaglenda]

Yesterday I watched a ton of your videos (so informative & entertaining) & wondered why there wasn't a dbl. boiler besides the plastic bodied Nuova Simonellis in this price range. BAM! Today this Breville gets a Crew Review! I think this one will be a hot seller if in time it outperforms and proves itself. Lets face it... a lot of times it is a "loose connection" between the portafilter & the control buttons. hehe ;-) Impressive step fwd on this one. A great "in between" high end & entry level.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@ronaglenda Yeah, totally agree; and Breville are really working hard to revamp their coffee products so we're hopeful that this is just the beginning! :) - Kat

[RogerR3x]

I've had this machine in Australia for months now I love it, There is a owners thread on CoffeeSnobs and a lot more information regarding the machine especially from part of the Breville team involved with this machine.

The cleaning cycle will prompt after 200 shots that go from 7 seconds or beyond, so if you manually backflush up to 6 seconds then that shot is not counted, I backflush by holding the 2 cup button manually making it go to full pressure.

BTW when will we see Kats face? c'mon

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@RogerR3x Thanks for the recommendation! And the tips on the backflush manual operation. Is there anything you don't dig about it? We have been hard pressed ourselves, but we've only had it around a week. - Kat

[RogerR3x]

@SeattleCoffeeGear

There is nothing I don't dig on the machine, some people think the steam is weak but it's constant and dry and very hard not to make decent microfoam. The panels are a bit hard not to get finger marks but that would be my only complain. I'm sure the American crowd will love it just as much as us Aussies.

Heatup time is really quick, it's good to go in about 12 minutes compared to 40 or longer than most bigger boiler machines, thanks to the active grouphead!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@RogerR3x Cool -- thanks for sharing your feedback! That fingerprint thing is the story of all brushed stainless IMHO -- and actually why I'm really not a fan of it myself. - Kat

[aesonvirus]

Silly spell check :(

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@aesonvirus I forgive you ;) - Kat

[aesonvirus]

Looks great but Breville remains a name seldom used in the same sentence as reliability. Time will tell but it goes seem to have a great deal if features.

The steam seemed slow. How is it in person?

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@aesonvirus The guy who worked hard to develop this ran cafes for years; the guy who runs the company now is really into coffee and has been working hard on changing their gear accordingly. The steam is like a single boiler; most similar to the CC1's performance - Kat

[coffeefusion]

So much bang for your buck. They're already for sale in Australia and have been very popular at their price range.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@coffeefusion Yes - so far so good, from the manufacturer, of course - Kat

[renix]

The wheel feature is the best thing.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@renix If only it had a leash and then you could drag it around with you - Kat

[craigdamico1]

Awesome !!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@craigdamico1 I got no complaints - Kat

[danw2002ti]

Yea, finally in, been watching this one from when they first announced it...my replacement for my KA DB....

[spyrmak]

i thought double boiler would be huge like commercial only machines . what's the point of the double boiler ?

[renix]

@spyrmak There are multiple double boiler machines on the market (and have been for quite a while). One problem with heat exchangers is the "water dance" to flush out water that's too hot. With DB's you have separate boilers, which can create *other* problems at times depending on the machine. Personally, I'd never buy anything that has a strap on tamper and is made by an "general" appliance manufacturer.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@renix You're so bloody precious! I have never understood why you watch any of our videos. Would you buy a computer? Nearly all of them are actually produced, physically, by 'general' appliance manufacturers who signed the right price contract with your favorite name brand. - Kat

[renix]

@SeattleCoffeeGear I watch you videos so I know what Gail has been up to when I talk to her on the phone. Now that you mention it...I built my computer.  Bazinga!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@renix Hahahahahaa -- from the circuit boards on up?!?! You *are* talented ;) - Kat

[renix]

@SeattleCoffeeGear My point was that after looking at which companies make good home espresso machines, it usually turns out to be an Italian company designing and manufacturing their own machines (minus peripheral electronic components). These companies specialize in one thing which is making espresso machines that make great espresso. Breville has a reputation. Google "breville junk" and you'll get a bunch of reviews complaining about dead products and bad customer service. Just saying :)

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@renix I think that's true, but that's also just history at work. Are you saying that a company can't change? I think the point of this machine is that the head of Breville that took over recently loves coffee and really wanted to improve their products. How that plays out in the long run, we'll see, but it doesn't hurt to be open minded. Just because it's made in Italy doesn't mean it's reliable -- let me introduce you to my good friend FIAT ;) - Kat

[renix]

@SeattleCoffeeGear The new Fiat's (selling in the U.S.) are very well made and they (Fiat) do own Ferrari as well. If Breville wants to pull a Hyundai that's fine. Get after it!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@renix Your comment only accentuates my point: in 1987 I traveled in a Fiat van around Wales for 2 months that broke down every 20k -- and lost the ability to roll down windows and open the doors from the outside within a week. Thankfully, we borrowed it. If I was going to rely on Fiat's history, I'd never buy it; if I'm open to them attempting to reinvent themselves over 20 years later, I'm happily surprised. I'm just saying your dismissal is with prejudice; should it be? - Kat

[renix]

@SeattleCoffeeGear I agreed earlier companies can change (Hyundai), but I'd rather not be the test pilot trying to see whether the plane is going to crash. I'll let others take that ride.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@renix I can get that; but I think there's a difference between saying 'I'm not an early adopter' and 'I'd never buy x', that's all. - Kat

[renix]

@SeattleCoffeeGear Idk if the term early adopter is a 100% fit when there are proven substitutes to this machine. It's a new price point perhaps, and maybe in the future Breville will do good things for home espresso. Funny thing, this machine came up in conversation I had with some industry folks just recently.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@renix It's def early adopter -- in my opinion, that's the approach you need to take with any equipment that's new out of the gate and doesn't have a history to it, regardless if there's competition. That still speaks nothing to the specific machine's build quality, flaws or longevity issues ... there are certain people that are more open to working through the early kinks than others, and thank god for them otherwise none of the gear we sell would have ever been sustained :) - Kat

[renix]

@SeattleCoffeeGear I disagree (big surprise huh). The Rogers adoption curve defines early adopters as careful people, believe it or not.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@renix Ha - OK; I am just speaking from my own practical experience in the tech industry for the last 20 years, no curves involved - Kat

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@spyrmak You can have improved water temp with a double boiler -- if you want to control the brew boiler temp in minor degree differentials, you can only do that with completely separate boilers that have PID control - Kat

[ehgz1]

How much is it gonna cost to get this bit of fabulousness in my kitchen??

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@ehgz1 I believe it will be around $1199 in the US (as of this writing, prices can always change) - Kat

[ehgz1]

That's the exact same water filter, with that dial feature, that is used in a Keurig brewer.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@ehgz1 Interesting! :) - Kat

[ehgz1]

OMG!!! They have arrived! WOOHOO!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@ehgz1 Yes! They'll be shipping out end of October - Kat

[MrAlligam]

From the Breville website, there " is another element in the group head, ensuring the entire system maintains a consistent temperature." Well played Breville, very well played.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@MrAlligam Yes! Nice that it's not heated through ambient temp from the boiler -- definitely ready to rock sooner rather than later, temp-wise :) - Kat

[sliiidelappy]

Finally. We are still waiting in Denmark.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@sliiidelappy Yeah, the machine doesn't come out here until the end of October and it's a limited run the first time around so will probably sell out quickly. - Kat