This is probably the best video I have ever seen on legalizing all kinds of currencies in the free market. I used to believe that we simply needed to return to gold and silver, but the case here for legalizing all kinds of currencies and the fact that modern times would make it efficient is great. Consider my mind just about completely changed.
What I enjoy most about listening to Lew Rockwell is his way of communicating radical ideas in a non-threatening way. The abolition of legal-tender laws, as he presents it, is the most common-sensical thing in the world.
Of course, it is the most common-sensical thing in the world, but many advocates present ideas in a more confrontational way. Mr. Rockwell, on the other hand, makes it sound almost boring and pedantic.
How you wanna convert dollar to gold, if gold production is slower than the interests? You can't convince us that banks can cover their balance with gold.
There would be deflation, prices would go down as opposed to now when there is inflation where you have more dollars but prices go up. You wouldnt have as many dollars but your purchasing power would be much greater. Something that cost $100 in the early 1800s would be $64 in the early 1900s. Now that we are off the gold standard something that cost $4 in the early 1900s costs over $100 today.
Yes, because the real problem is not the gold. The problem is interest.
You'll need to reset the economy and remove all interest, then revert the money to gold.
In our Islamic banks they don't charge interest, but when you depose you get the profit, which come from the banks investments, because your deposit is considered instrument. You either get profit or lose profit, but the fact is that you mostly get the profit. Long subject.
Interest, in its primary function is the reward the entrepreneur gains for engaging in a business venture. When HP invest 500 dollars to make a computer and then sell it for 600 dollars; 100 dollars represent the interest! In the long run of course, along with technological advances, the cost of production will be lowered and so will the market price for a computer. It is the same basic function whether in banking or manufacturing. Of course the more risky, the higher the interest for a venture.
" In the long run of course, along with technological advances, the cost of production will be lowered and so will the market price for a computer."
Can you give me one example? Because seems that everything becoming more expensive. Also money value is lowered which is the main problem behind the present day economical crises.
Interest is selling and buying money, so where is the manufacturing and business, if you only trade the currency itself?
It is pretty simple indeed! When cell phones first appeared, they were not only quite cumbersome but also out of the reach of the average joe. With better allocation of resource came lower price and almost anyone AROUND the world has a cell phone. Same with computers, cars, shoes, clothes, video games, TV...Etc The value of these things are quite stable; but the monetary issue is our inflationary governments that are printing paper money and debasing the currency!
Actually, if we had a sound money system out of the reach of politician and central bankers, our money will be gaining in values and we will be able to buy more things with less money. The manipulation of central bankers through the fractional reserve system and the cutting of interest rate to prop up the economy is the real and central issue of the day! The dollar has lost 30% of its value since 2000! And Obama isn't helping! Buy GOLD my friend!
What are you talking about dude? Seriously! Who issue our current money notes if not the FED that happens to be an arm of the government! In 2000, the interest boom went bust and we should have gotten into a recession, a rather severe one indeed! But, the then FED chairman lowered "interest rates" to 1% in order to allow banks to easy the lending requirements and overflow people with easy money! Bad money mixing with good money reduce the purchasing power of the money! I
The banker are working side to side with big corporations, the governments and the military industry! That's fascism! In a society where justice reign, money ought to be removed from the hand of one individual like in the 19th century from the KINGS, or an institution like now, from the GOVERNMENT. That's the battle of the future that I foresee! Nobody is above the laws or should be treated differently that the layman! No one is too big to fail even a GOVERNMENT!
In a market economy, the interest rate function as an incentive for the entrepreneur and investor. None will invest if he thinks that we will not recoup a significant profit from his investment. When the central banks artificially lower interest rates, it is misinforming people toward allocating resources in domains they wouldn't have initially engaged in before! That of course lead to a bust and a need to clean up these malinvestment: That's what is a called a RECESSION!
Okay, so the investor is getting the profit. Have you even considered the loans? Loans are more than the investments, you know that right? The majority are the poor who needs the money, not the investor. If you consider their loans then their profits that they gain from the market, then taxes. Do you really think they will gain profits or fall in more debts?
Its an advantage for the investor but disadvantage for the borrower.
That's where you get it wrong my friend! Loans are meant to be "invested" into a productive activity, not for consumption like many of us have fallen into. The person who is providing a loan expect to be repaid from a risky he is taking (Meaning he might not be paid back.) When the poor takes a loan to buy a car or some clothes, what is he adding into the economy? That's why we are in so much trouble these days! When someone takes a loan to start a business, he is creating jobs for example.
"When the poor takes a loan to buy a car or some clothes, what is he adding into the economy?" Who pays back(the majority) does add interest(virtual money) to the economy.
Most people pay back the loan to the bank, and if not banks do pay insurance.
Well, my point here is that "loans" should not be extended for consumption but for a productive activity. Instead of taking loans to buy things, people should "save" their earned money to consume as they please! . The consumer debt of the USA is 14 trillions! Americans by a large are bankrupt! That's a tragedy! Japan went through a severe recession in the 90s, but they didn't get obliterated because the Japanese citizens are great savers. Their production outperformed the USA!
You view, in my opinion this issue of money and interest as a class warfare against the poor. First of all, whether do you draw the line between the poors? There are rich people who used to be "poor" and worked their way into a better living standard! Who or what institution will hold the sword of justice to eliminate the exploitation of the proletariat? The best solution is to allow individual to be accountable for their actions whether bankers or "poors".
True, but there is a better offer. People who borrow can pay the same amount of money, and the banks investment should take place in production, so investors either gain profit of lose. That would be fair for both sides, also it wont create virtual money, which destroy the economy.
Your point is interesting! Fairness? Where have you ever witness that in mankind history? No my friend, people are before anything motivated by "self-interest"! Like it or not! The elimination of central banking and it replacement by a system of Gold standard would truly be more effective than FIAT money! Money will cease to be a tool and weapon of governments, but rather a mean of exchange of goods and services. The market alone will dictate the interest rate and people will be more responsible
"Your point is interesting! Fairness? Where have you ever witness that in mankind history?" Lmao!!! Your point is right too in the next sentences, but you'll still need to get rid of the interest. You don't have enough gold to cover the amount of the (Virtual)money you have from interest.
You are confusing fractional reserve banking system with interest my friend. Interest has nothing to do with whatever you are trying to enunciate! I am sorry to say that your understanding of monetary policy is very limited. Interest is a component of the market and not of money creation unless you have a FIAT money system controlled by central banks; and in the USA, the FED happens to be a private banking institution!
The quality of the money is not expressed in ITS quantity but in ITS VALUE!
This is why i said: "Compare gold prices like 5 years ago and present day, and tell me if the money value has fallen."
You'll get chocked when you realize how much gold is a dollar. It might even reach copper. lol. Just imagine if they did it tomorrow(process it in your mind)
FIAT is most responsible for that extra cash the lowered the money value, and the FED is responsible for the extra interest which make them need more dollars from the FED.
You are fucking idiot, sorry! What are you mumbling about?
" The FED is responsible for the extra interest which make them need more dollars from the fed"? What thee hell is that supposed to mean?
Ok! Do you mean that" By artificially cutting the interest rate, thus increasing the money supply, the Fed is debasing the currency; therefore, more dollars are needed to for the purchase of a value item." You will have to improve your enunciation of economic principles! The FED IS THE PROBLEM!
Ok! now I understand your point of view as far as interests are concerned. You base your assertion from an Islamic perspective. It is all pretty and dandy to "expect" a moral approach toward economic exchange and lending practices in particular; but this is practically unrealistic since most people do not deal with economic activities from a Muslim perspective, let alone that not all Muslim will renounce in the idea of maximizing their profit by any means necessary.
[let alone that not all Muslim will renounce in the idea of maximizing their profit by any means necessary.]
We do have Islamic banks and they invest pretty good on property building (then selling or renting) Also most products trade. Islamic banks use your money in business, and share the prophet with you.
The only problem that faces non-Muslims is that It Is an Islamic economy system.
I said "NOT ALL Muslims"; and not all Muslims live their live faithfully along the lines traced by the Koran! Which is even impossible in the real world! Islamic banking is a good approach and a respectable way of avoiding greed and excess! But, I believe that the Austrian perspective is better applicable to the diverse world in which we live! More, Dubai and the Emirates are Muslims Nations; but, they are suffering also from the real estate bust! Faith to me is an individual issue!
Dubai is just one city in Emirates, only one city means nothing compared to more than 50 country. And to be more accurate foreign westerners are most suffering in Dubai. Besides Dubai does not fully follow the Islamic economical system, Saudi Arabia does. Have you ever heard that Saudi suffered economical problem? Never happened, because Islamic economical system also involve the taxation, it covers it all.
"not all Muslims live their live faithfully" True.
Look, Egypt is a Muslim country and it has problems, Algeria, pakistan, Turkemanistan, Morrocco...etc These country ain't exactly at the point of scientific development and human development. It takes a lot of factor to permit a Nation to truly reach it full potential and allow its citizens to enjoy the fruits of their labors. You can't hold saudi Arabia as an example of economic development! You must be joking! 50 years ago it was a desert until its oil reserves were unleashed!
"Egypt is a Muslim country and it has problems, Algeria, pakistan, Turkemanistan, Morrocco" all of them are secular. I'm Egyptian and our country is secular.
50 years ago there was no Saudi Arabia, it was part of the Ottoman empire. And the Ottoman empire was also one of the best economic countries. Then you mention oil, okay then Egypt one of most productive in natural oil, phosphates, iron, and lots more, but it is secular.
Dark age it was primarily because of the strict application of religious laws over individuals! And, that is my point! You cannot expect a prosperous economy and justice with the strict application of a biased religious practice! Christianity, Islam, Buddhism are nothing but religious practices that should be concentrated on individual own spirituality! That's all I am trying to say! Not all Egyptians are Muslims and not all muslims practice Islam!
"Dark age it was primarily because of the strict application of religious laws over individuals!" Same thing was in the Islamic state at the same period of time, which proves the domination of our system.
"Not all Egyptians are Muslims" At least 80% are Muslims.
Anyway if we go deep in religion conversation then we're going off the topic of that video. We can personal message each other.
It is not a matter of domination! Otherwise what about today? Most Muslim Nations are eating up the crumbs from the Westerns tables, and the USA in particular. Malaysia is a majoritary Muslim country but it is quite successful. Religion is a SPIRITUAL ISSUE! And, like I have told you, the Islamic at that time were reading socrates, plato and Aristotle; exchanging with Chineses technologically, inventing technologies! There was an atmosphere of innovation unrelated to the religious fanatism!
"Most Muslim Nations are eating up the crumbs from the Westerns tables" Lmao, where is the example? You keep saying stuff without supporting it, besides as I mentioned MOST Muslim countries are secular and those are the most who suffer.
"Religion is a SPIRITUAL ISSUE" In Islam its not. a person should either accept it all, or reject all.
"the Islamic at that time were reading socrates, plato and Aristotle; exchanging with Chineses technologically, inventing technologies!" Not against sharya.
And that is the difference between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. We do encourage improvement. Not like the church when i was fighting science in the dark ages.
Well, what about wahhabist so called scholars banning TV is Saudi arabia; preventing women from driving? What is the logical and moral explanation to such nonsenses! What will happen in SA when oil revenue dwindles and the royal Family is no more able to appease the religious extremist with heaps of dollars? Look at Sudan and its murderous regime supported by SA! You can't be that foolish! Does Allah promote enslavement and genocide? Wahhabism is not Islam and religion is an individual matter!
"what about wahhabist so called scholars banning TV is Saudi arabia" They do have lots of TV channels. "preventing women from driving?" Read my comments. "Sudan and its murderous regime" did you even prove that?
"enslavement and genocide" Ask yourself you just solved it, of course its not allowed in Islam.
I see that you suddenly got mad at Islam with even trying to read my comments.
The regime in Suddan is supporting murderous militias in Darfur? Come on; you can't be that naive! The religious fanaticism in Sudan is actually more violent than in SA! Read the news!
My point is related to economics and interest my friend! I am just trying to show you that you cannot try to reigidly apply the precept of a religion to guide the economic life of a nation! People will always be people! Muslim, christian, Jews, Buddhists..etc
"The regime in Suddan is supporting murderous militias in Darfur?" Is that even logical, you really need to understand politics. First that has nothing to do with Islam. Second how can the government maintain control over the country if they gave the chance to militias? They are fighting the militias in Darfur not the opposite.
"you cannot try to reigidly apply the precept of a religion to guide the economic life of a nation!" You provided nothing proves such thing against Islam.
Someone needs to improve his understanding of politics! And it ain't me! You are a jock as far as the history of Sudan is concerned! what you call " Militia" are nothing but Christian sudanese that are fighting against an Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship supported and financed by Saudi Arabia! As a matter of fact, Christianism pre-date Islam in sudan! You are showing your utter ignorance of history!Islam appeared in sudan only in 1882 with the conquest of Ali of egypt! Dude, check yourself!
"what you call " Militia" are nothing but Christian sudanese" Yeah and they are fighting to have their own country in Sudan, of course no country would give that chance to any minority. They do still have Ethiopia which is Christian just beside then, why don't Ethiopia invite them?
"Islam appeared in sudan only in 1882 with the conquest of Ali of egypt!" Hahaahahaha man you hilarious!! Stop it for your own sake. Your making fun of yourself.
Dude! Instead of laughing like an idiot, bring up an argument to oppose my claims! Prove me that Islam was the predominant religion is Sudan Prior 1882 and the conquest of Muhamed Ali the Egyptian! Yes or no Christianity Predate ISLAM in Sudan! Prove me otherwise! And these people are not minority in their own continent and land of their ancestors! Arabs are foreigners in AFRICA! That's the fact! So, you better get some glasses for you need to improve your intellectual vision!
"Instead of laughing like an idiot" Who is the bigot now?
Mate please have some respect.
Now about Sudan and Islam, as everybody knows Arabs were known of trade, and trade was the step for traveling into Sudan, then came Islam and also through talk Islam has even reached Nigeria.
What you don't know is that Islam has reached most of the world even without Islamic state power.
You haven't answered my question: yes or no did Christianity pre-date Islam in what is today Sudan? Religion spread in multiple manners; military, trade, conversion of a King...etc You do not want to go about Nigeria either friend! Ever heard of Ousman Dam fodio? He conquered most of Northen Nigeria and imposed Islam to his subject! If a king convert to a religion and conquer a land, he might as well impose his new religion of his new subject! The CASE WOULDN'T BE DIFFERENT WITH MOHAMED ALI!
Where you there to witness Muhamad Ali religious policies! You are a funny guy! In a previous comment you stated that the "Christian Militians" should unite with Ethiopia as they want to follow their faith! The true is that religion is not even the cause of the Sudan war, but OIL! That's why I stated that I am against the political use of RELIGION whether be Christian, Islam or whatever!
And you weren't aware of the terrorist explosion is SA in 2003-4? How old are you?
Why should they MIGRATE FROM THE LAND OF THEIR ANCESTOR because of a foreign religion? Are you out of your mind? It is THEIR LANDS, and no reasons and justification should be employed to kick them out! By stating your comments, you are condoning the murder and genocides of MILLIONS of innocents!
Why aren't the PALESTINIANS moving in EGYPT or SAUDI ARABIA! After all, they can't get along with the JEWS! They can move in these lands to live according to the PROPHET! Beware of your own statements!
Then they respect the majority. Simple logic. Even if they vote the majority do what they want. Isn't that democracy, besides they get judged by their book. Isn't that fair enough? They pay less to the government than Muslims, isn't that better?
Southern Sudanese and Northen Sudanese are the same people; THEY ARE BLACK AFRICAN FOOLISHLY KILLING EACH OTHERS IN THE NAME OF FOREIGN GODS while OIL is the main argument of their BATTLE! The leaders know that oil is the real cause of that war but the "religion, the opium of the people" is MARKETED for popular support!
That's quite simple: Most POLITICIAN COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THEIR FAITH IN WHATEVER GOD!
THE OIL IS IN THE SOUTH DUUUUUUDE! WHICH RESPECT ARE U TALKING ABOUT??
Why don't you go there and solve the problem yourself? It would be cool you know.
No need for this conversation you claimed that you know history and you don't, you just use your Islam-haters websites and misleading text to make an argument. You know nothing about our history.
Your muslims brotherhood is a fiction; Come back in the real world!! You are an Egyptian who CLAIMS to be a faithful Muslim yet support a violent genocide in Sudan! I have never red anything from no stupid websites! When we began this conversation I praised the achievements of the MOORS IN ANDALOUSIA! This is not about religion but sciences and evolution of ideas as far as I am concerned!
Saudi Arabia is in the pocket of the USA! They were told ( Negotiated) to sell their oil to the USA primarily and in return the royal Family would be protected by the USA army! That's why there was terrorist explosions in Riyad a few years ago. You need to open yourself! Maybe spiritualism is something you don't understand then! Treat people the same way you would expect to be treated! That's simple!!
Part of the Koran is nothing but the old testaments of Judaism! What are u talking about!!
"Saudi Arabia is in the pocket of the USA!" Yeah we know that. What are we talking about exactly? Sharya law or politics?
"Treat people the same way you would expect to be treated!" Thats natural.
"Part of the Koran is nothing but the old testaments of Judaism! " Nope, have you even bothered reading the Quran yourself? No one has a book like it. Not even a chapter.
Seems that you are now just trying to show gaps, but the conversation was about interest and economy.
I couldn't care less about Islam or christianism! I am not religious, neither Christian nor Muslim. I am a spiritual person and I respect every and any belief as long as I am treated the same way!!
Remember that Al andalous was the door by which the west entered into modern age and the moors and Arabs were the gate keepers of ancient egyptians knowledge passed to Grecs and so forth. i see history on a evolutionary scope and religion on an historical eye! Come on! Islam is the latest religion!
"I am a spiritual person and I respect every and any belief as long as I am treated the same way!!" You haven't shown that during our conversation, you have turned it into a debate.
Al andalous was nothing before Islam, then Islam made it one of the best states.
"ancient egyptians knowledge passed" Well it was buried under the Roman control, use made a use of it. "Grecs and so forth." You had the Greeks knowledge have you even used it?
You got thrilled when you saw Islam's achievements.
Dude, you are a bigot and the more I read your comments, the more I am convinced of it! Islam was created as a revolt against the systematic fundamentalization of christian dogma by the church of Rome! It was a reactionary religion against christianity! That's all it is! There is no such thing as the "Islamic achievement" because islam is a religion, not a country or a Nation! Someone can be egyptian and not islamic! There was no ISLAM in egypt prior the 8th century AD!
Islam is the religion of all the prophets, worship the one God. So whatever you claim sorry its not suppose to address you, this part is between us and the people of book.
Your just going the wrong direction looking for something that support that Islam is wrong. Well this is your personal problem, I have nothing to do with that. You hate Islam? Your problem.
Your analysis is pathetic! That's why you don't like to bring about arguments since you are conscious of your own ignorance! There are many one God, and Allah is just one of them! In the name of allah, millions of people are being murdered in Darfur and that state is supported by the wahhabist sunni you took as an example of a stable ISLAMIC economy! If you can't see the connection between those points, i feel sorry for you and we should abort this discussion!
"i feel sorry for you and we should abort this discussion!" Yeah, best thing ever, specially that you bring up nothing. All of your arguments were pawned easily.
Its because you just get blind when you hear the word Islam. For you a Muslim man is a terrorist, a Muslim woman is oppressed. You really need to watch Muslim comedian making fun of such thoughts. Better than higher you blood pressure.
Muslim TV, Muslim comedians? What the hell is that? There are Muslim comedians in Senegal, in South Africa, in China, Indonesia! What do you mean by "Muslim TV?" Let me tell you something: ARABS!
Despite the fact that you have been on the African continent for 1500 years, you are still Arabs and that is evident in your comment. Morrocan view themselves as Berbers, Malaysians as Malaysians, Senegaleses as Africans! but the Egyptians are MUSLIMS, ARABS! You must distinguish arabism and ISLAM!
You say Muslims then suddenly you jump to Arabs? What the hell is that?
Moroccans majority Muslims/minority Jews, Malaysians majority Muslims/minority Christians and Hindus and Buddhists, Senegaleses majority Muslims/minority Christians, and Egypt majority Muslims/minority Christians.
We CAN live with other religions no matter what they believe. We never forced our religion, because we are fully confident that it is the truth. No need to force it.
Morrocans are majoritary Berbers; Malaysian are malays, Indians are Indians, Senegalese are serer, peul or whatever...Before being Muslims, they have their own unique culture and historicity! If you can't understand that, I don't know what else to tell you! Islam is an external elements in their unique proper cultural being. The proof is that they practice their religion in very different fashions! Arabs appeared in history only around 500 AD! They were sabaan before that!
"If you can't understand that" You would understand my position if you were Muslim. In Islam all people are the same, they are brothers in faith. Black/White/Asian/American/Egyptian/Marsian Whatever all the same. First they belong to Islam, then goes the culture and so on.
"they practice their religion in very different fashions" All witness that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger, they pray, pay charity, they fast in ramadan, and who can preform Hajj.
Illogical! Your problem is that you view the world through the eyes of your religion and interpret everything from that perspective! Sorry but that to me is not an intellectual intelligent way of sorting out problems. There is no ISLAMIC NATIONS! There are Nation where islam IS the majoritary faith just like there are Christians, Buddist, shintoist...etc. Religion rise and fall, but people stay and remain! For 3500, Amon Ra was the GOD OF EGYPT AND SUDAN, now it is ALLAH and Jesus! FUTURE?
"Religion rise and fall, but people stay and remain! " Can you refer to Islam according to this statement with numbers? I doubt that, you just claim you know everything. Have fun with that.
Dude, where was ISLAM PRIOR 600 AD? Even sabbean people didn't want of that New religion at the time! Look at the historical events and not at the Koran. You are blinded by your so called FAITH, and afraid of seeing the world for what it is! Maybe you truly lack SPIRITUALITY, the essence that allows you to understand who you are without need of a RELIGIOUS DOGMA! You still have a lot of homework to do I believe to even understand your own religion and its purpose!
You seem to enjoy this discussion more than I. I have a lot of things to do and I will have to cease this discussion because you are not countering my points with your own arguments! I am the only one stating "opinions and facts" while you contend yourself with critics. This is not an intellectual discussion and I am not learning anything from you beside the fact that you believe in allah! You have made that quite obvious already! If I am wrong, prove yourself RIGHT!
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You can't learn anything if you still use wrong references, you should listen to Muslims if you wanna learn, not come up with false information. Of course your intention was to bash Islam, and that is not learning.
Muhammad Ali was only trying to control the south which is Sudan in order to protect Egypt from western invasions. He hold against the French and the British. He just wanted to defend Egypt from long range, not forcing religion"Politics".
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"You seem to enjoy this discussion more than I." I think i said if we are going to go that deep in religion then we should go for personal messages, at least for the respect of the video up loader but you didn't even read my message i think.
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If I want to learn something about SUDAN, I would go to a SUDANESE BEFOREHAND, NOT AN EGYPTIAN OR AN ARAB! I have told you that your Muslim Nation exist only in your head! Sudanese are well versed in their own history and have different views depending from which perspective you stand.
You can always trown in personal messages if you like!
I do not hate ISLAM; I dislike religion being used as a political weapon whether it be Christianism with the pope that blessed the African slave trade or today's Mullah that are preying for the destruction of the so called infidels in Darfur! Religious fanaticism knows no creed! You pointed at Saudi Arabia as an example of a successful Nation where religious law governs economics affairs, YOU COULDN'T BE MORE WRONG! The Kings are in bed with the Americans and that's why there are problem in SA!
"I do not hate ISLAM" You do, and the simplest evidence is that you don't even check authenticity of the website you use in this debate, they totally change history.
"Mullah" I just see this term being used by westerners, we never use. In fact i don't even know what it means.
"that's why there are problem in SA!" do you even watch the news? I never heard of serious problems there.
Islam also has reached Sudan in the middle ages, our golden ages, your dark ages.
Dude, have you red my NAME? I am not a Westerner! I am african and I just happen to have emigrated in the USA! Bias is something I was raised upon; therefore I am watchful every time I quote something!
Islam is a religion just like any religion as far as history analysis it rises! You might view it as the message of God through the prophet but so did a Grec with Zeus or a Swedish with Thor! You are the one who is blatantly unwilling to view his faith on a historical perspective!
First time my conversation with an African end up this violently. Really the only people i used talk with using simple logic, but you seem one of thousand this way.
"I am watchful every time I quote something! " No your not just spend more time in searching and you'll find out yourself.
"Zeus or Thor"
Did you notice that we worship the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus...etc?
I did show my faith due to our history we learn at school, seems that you know our history more than us.
What is the difference between Zeus and the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus?
I am an individual, not an element of the African state of mind. People have different outlooks and I have my own! Your opinions luckily are only "Yours", not that of all Egyptians or Muslims! I know am well versed in ancient history; and if there is one thing that unify all histories, it is the prevalence of IDEOLOGY! I try to stray away from that! I look at Religion on an historical perspective! Dare to do so!
"I know am well versed in ancient history" Thats a lie. Sorry mate this is dishonesty, i don't think our argument would be helpful, if just lie like that.
And what makes you think that I am being dishonest? All you do is copying and countering my statement without bringing about your own intellectual analysis and facts. If there is someone who is weak here, it is you! You didn't even know that most of SUDAN WAS CHRISTIAN UP UNTIL 1882!! There wasn't such a thing as sudan as a matter of fact! What irritate me the most is that we see ourselves according to the line traced by the FOREIGN MAN!
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Darfur itself because an Islamic state in 1445, and the first state in Sudan was in 1323. So sorry you fail to prove the authenticity of your knowledge.
Mali was a an African empire in which the leaders where Muslims to a certain degree because of their contact with Northern Berbers and Arabs! This doesn't mean that the people didn't keep their own traditional religions. The different tribes that made Sudan must have adopted Islam, but the concept of SUDAN WAS BORN ONLY AFTER THE CONQUEST OF MOHAMED ALI! That's my point! The history of these nations is not that simple or black and white! There wasn't such a thing as SUDAN PRIOR ALI!
"All witness that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger, they pray, pay charity, they fast in ramadan, and who can preform Hajj."
These are the pratices if Islam.
"SUDAN WAS BORN ONLY AFTER THE CONQUEST OF MOHAMED ALI!" It wasn't, but whatever. Just don't fall in the wrong argument again. If you wanna discuss history Egypt is my country i know enough about it.
All christians pray in the name of Jesus but do not refer to themselves as a NATION! Whatever you are saying is illogical since not all Muslim practice Islam! MOHAMED ALI WAS NOT EVEN EGYPTIAN BUT ALBANIAN! You do not want to go there my friend! Let's move on to personal pages if you like!
And, i would appreciate if you would cease to quote my comments and come up with your own arguments to defend your stance!
Muhamad of Egypt invaded the Southern Nation of Sudan in the 19th century and turned those people into Muslims! The civil war of Sudan actually began in 1955 between christian and Muslim backed by Egyptians ARABS! So, you so called secular Egypt is supporting a terrorist fundamentalist state headed by a military dictator in Karthoum! You can't come against me in politics!
If it wasn't for oil, Saudi Arabia would be seen as a tyranical extremist Nation! The oil wealth has led to an explosion in population but the rampant corruption and religious laws are in my opinion preventing a realistic economical advancement. Most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of the ruling elite! You cannot apply religious law to the daily life of individuals; look at Europe in the middle Age for proof! The Islamic Nation at the time were more "modern" than Europe in that Period
"rampant corruption and religious laws are in my opinion preventing a realistic economical advancement." How is that?? Please give an example.
"Most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of the ruling elite!" First you should consider that it is a kingdom. Second you should check the income of the individuals, they do earn enough to make a good living. Please remember the number of homeless people who live on the garbage in west, then start comparing.
Human rights abuse are very much common in Saudi arabia, they finance international terrorism in Sudan and around the world; the sharia law dismiss the right of women and executions for banal crimes are quite common. Most of the Hijackers of 9/11 were Saudis, not mountaineers from afghanistan!! Even the Islam in Saudi arabia is not true Islam but Wahhabism! The only way to contain the extremist in SA is to pay them annually as the government does! What happens when the oil reserve empty out?
Also "sharia law dismiss the right of women and executions for banal crimes are quite common." Not one example?
"The only way to contain the extremist in SA is to pay them annually as the government does!" hahahaha, this annual payment is the charity that i was referring to. This is that taxation system, it is a payment to poor.
Of course all nations in the world condemn terrorism, and of course we do.
The extremist in SA are religious fanatics who have a total different interpretation of Islam than most. Wahhabism is a violent and repressive sect! You would agree with me on that regard! It is like taking the mormons of the 19th century and allowing them to apply their religious interpretation of law over the USA citizens!
Women in SA are not even allowed to DRIVE! I mean, how ridiculous is that? There is a legal explanation for a husband to beat his wife? WTF??
"The extremist in SA are religious fanatics who have a total different interpretation of Islam than most." SA is fighting them. So what do you accuse SA of?
" Wahhabism is a violent and repressive sect!" Not true, they are just honest, because they say it openly(You either accept everything in Islam or your not a Muslim, and that what Shiites hate)
"Women in SA are not even allowed to DRIVE" They are now, it was because the didn't know how would the police act with them(They have immunity)
With the gold standard, we could simply print certificates backed at 100% by Gold! There is no need for a trillions KG of gold to make it work! That's a myth perpetuated by the advocates of FIAT money; the same system you appear to dislike so much!
Gold is nothing but a store of value unlike any other form of mean of exchange. Silver is not too far behind as well. You still have a lot of homework to do in my opinion to understand the function of interest and the monetary system.
Also, I think you misunderstand me went I use the term investor. An investor is someone who takes a risk for the sake of future profit. When you go to school, you are investing your time and energy in the hope of a better future. We are all investors! Babies are not investors, people on disabilities, homeless, elderly people...etc Your problem is that you limit your scope with bankers or traders...etc! That's a very narrow view that prevent you from seeing the underlying economic laws!
"THEY OFFER NO PLAN FOR RESTORING A GOLD DOLLAR, it is not that any of them would disagree with the idea, but all of them have fully confronted the reality that the idea of converting the existing FIAT currency to sound money is essentially a 19th century ideal, that presupposes an enlightened class of political managers. This condition is not met today."
At 2 minutes, 20 seconds into this C-Span video clip, Rep. Paul Kanjorski of Pennsylvania explains how the Federal Reserve told Congress members about a "tremendous draw-down of money market accounts in the United States, to the tune of $550 billion dollars." According to Kanjorski, this electronic transfer occured over the period of an hour or two.
to marinello6. Are you saying someone took $550B out to drop the market? B/Trillionaires like the Rothschild class can slosh money into any market, causing demand i.e. prices to soar, then they cash out and do it again. They don't play for money but for power. Quite interesting on this subject video.google Energy Market Manipulation.
I thought it was done by the more educated people among the public. You sound like you have additional insight that I have not even thought of. Maybe a little bit of both.....Elites and smart money.
The american financial system is at the center of a global economic maelstrom that nobody dares call the old & dying patriarcal materailism paradigm. It is based on the illusion & lie of property dictating jurisprudence & governance. It is also a mirror of our level of evolution, the ultimate test is death & transformation, wether we like it or not. Life balances everything in her own way, in her own time. No tricky accounting is good or fast enough to cheat her ever but who can believe that?
Does anyone consider that the central banks are headed by hyper-elitists? HYPER-ELITISM. Power-hungry SADISTS. They are purposely destroying our economy so that they can gain even MORE control. Order out of chaos...does that ring a bell? They are destroying the middle class ON PURPOSE to create a chasm between themselves and the poor. Ben Bernanke is not "incompetent"! He is FOLLOWING ORDERS. A police state will ensue out of this chaos and many will be KILLED. Many will STARVE. WAKE UP, America.
No. I'm old enough to write in complete sentences, with proper punctuation. Some might say grammar is an obsolete endeavor, I consider it the sign of someone who cares about their words.
But then, at 12 I also made that effort. So who is to say?
Don't bother with guys like peopleasylum. They're annoying as hell, but they aren't very intelligent. I've come across people that are convinced absolutely that the Depression ended in 1933. You can't argue with people like that.
thats what people of lesser intelligence do, sounds like hes straight out of the ghetto, and he asks, "will this human race ever evolve", not with people like you making babies, no we wont.
you sure seem to prove your point that your no better than an animal
observing gold's stability over time is an oversimplification of value. more importantly, what basket of goods did one ounce of gold buy in ancient rome? did it buy a herd of cattle or a cheap hooker? next we can compare the baskets to what an ounce of gold might buy you today. excuse the crude analogy but i hope the point is conveyed.
that's a good point. This kind of what gold has bought throughout history has been referenced many times. Probably the most popular reference is comparing what an ounce of gold has bought throughout history with regard to clothing. To sum it up, there has generally been consistency.
well if consistency matters, isn't an inflationary monetary policy consistent? the value of each dollar declines over time making long-term contracts attractive while emphasizing immediate consumption. expectations of value are obliterated with gold because it depends on the quantity of reserves and the ability to manage the stock of cash, which may or may not grow/decline in the future. wouldn't this create a volatile environment for exchange or engaging in long contracts?
What matters is having a currency of sound value so that when you work for it and save it, it is not devalued. The problem with a fraudulent currency as you suggest is that, first of all, those who print it and spend it first get the most value from the new currency. The new currency dilutes the value of the rest of the currency out there and this effect takes place as the new currency gets transferred throughout the system. You should research fiat currencies and the destruction they cause.
magic, inflation is a tax and provides a transfer of wealth, which i consider undesirable under most circumstances. but prices do catch up to the rate of inflation in the long run, viz. the neutrality of money. what about short term adjustments like cost of living wages?although it may be undesirable, when inflation is expected, historically, it does not cause major problems.
to me, gold seems to have profound flaws. if we vault gold then our currency is a certificate for that commodity, of equal value. how do you plan on trading large quantities of gold to people who want to redeem their cash for gold?if cash is not redeemable for gold, does it have any real value?isn't fiat currency too?
secondly, if we don't mint our gold supply into coins, how do we plan on physically representing the money supply; by printing paper again?don't we run into the same problem?
In our current economic system, what gives money value is scarcity. The more dollars there are, the less each one is worth. This is because more dollars cause prices to rise.
When a currency is backed by gold, the number of bills that can be printed is limited by the amount of gold, which maintains discipline in the printing of the currency.
With fiat currencies, there is no limit. Therefore, throughout history, no country using fiat money has ever resisted destroying the currency.
that seems absolutely true justin. and because i am not well informed on historical matters, maybe you can correct my ignorance. weren't economic catastrophes like the great depression exacerbated by representing the gold stock inadequately? in other words, if it is the case that the amount of gold is fixed, it does not necessarily mean that the currency printed will represent the gold stock accurately.
Well, the entity issuing the currency would only be allowed to print bills if they are backed by physical gold somewhere. As new gold is discovered, more currency can be issued, but this would be very slow growth in the money supply.
By the way, there is no shame in ignorance, only the acceptance of it. I began learning economics by reading "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt. If you look in my profile, you will find a playlist on it. The book is free online too. :)
justin, i appreciate the primitive walkthrough of the theory, but none of my concerns have been addressed. for instance, what if foreign countries aren't on the gold standard? how do we value their trade or sell them our government debt? also, what prevents a money printer from printing more/less currency then there is gold stock? there is still moral hazard. lastly, if we don't directly trade gold, then isn't our currency still fiat? these are real problems that need to be addressed.
"well if consistency matters, isn't an inflationary monetary policy consistent?"
Your thinking like a lobster. If you put it in boiling water it will writhe in pain and die but if u put the same lobster in room temp water and slowly boil it, the lobster wont move or scream.
Meaning if u do it slowly no1 will care
Inflation is not consistent. Wages dont increase with the inflation. One year your paying $2 for milk. 5 yrs later it is $5. Thats not consistent. That is an attack on the working class
"primarily because lobsters (and other decapod crustaceans) "have opioid receptors and respond to opioids (analgesics such as morphine) in a similar way to vertebrates," indicating that lobsters' reaction to injury changes when painkillers are applied. The similarities in lobsters' and vertebrates' stress systems and behavioral responses to noxious stimuli were given as additional evidence for their capacity for pain"
"A 2007 study at Queen's University, Belfast, suggested that crustaceans do feel pain. Acetic acid was placed on the antennae of 144 prawns; the animals responded by rubbing the affected areas."
Since gold doesn't suffer from the effects of printing money, because gold is mined, it seems perfectly reasonable that gold would maintain value when the dollar collapses.
I would go so far as to say that is exactly what has happened in the past.
Can you support why you think gold will lose value when the dollar collapses?
If the Russian college professor is correct, and the United States breaks up in a couple of years, it would be perfectly reasonable that some of the resulting "States" would return to a commodity money standard.
Certainly, repudiation may be the only way "we" people get out from under the impossible debt being created in our name right now.
My only hope would be the right thing would be done in the US and it would be blindly copied here.
But i can see if anything like that happened and things did get better,it wouldn't be long before there was this great idea to start printing money,so we can feed poor people and raise up the sick.
I'd be willing to step over people sleeping in the street,while going to work.
Wow, that is great. You really described how I have been feeling about the current government and their meddling in the economy. I try and tell all my friends when the depression comes up that they should not fear. There is nothing mysterious going on. Just economic law in action.
That was a very grounding and realistic message. When Obama is talking about ideas and bs for the most part, this guys talking about the way things really work.
How dumb will the Obama administration be?
I think that question has been adequately answered.
pretorious700 11 months ago
This is probably the best video I have ever seen on legalizing all kinds of currencies in the free market. I used to believe that we simply needed to return to gold and silver, but the case here for legalizing all kinds of currencies and the fact that modern times would make it efficient is great. Consider my mind just about completely changed.
ZerogunRivale 1 year ago 3
Abolish the Fed!! NOW!!
doughtymqan 1 year ago
This was a captivating talk. Mr. Rockwell is one of my favorite speakers.
aretlev 1 year ago
What I enjoy most about listening to Lew Rockwell is his way of communicating radical ideas in a non-threatening way. The abolition of legal-tender laws, as he presents it, is the most common-sensical thing in the world.
Of course, it is the most common-sensical thing in the world, but many advocates present ideas in a more confrontational way. Mr. Rockwell, on the other hand, makes it sound almost boring and pedantic.
BeatTheBanks 1 year ago 7
@BeatTheBanks "almost boring and pedantic."
But in a good way right?
Hashishin13 1 year ago
now that I've listened to his speach, will someone find the most expencive hat money can buy, and put it on him.
davfritz 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Someone put some powder on that billiard ball.
davfritz 2 years ago
dollar/america is dead
TheBoxerDogs 2 years ago
The world has little time left to suffer.
tomtheshaman 2 years ago
I want to understand one point.
How you wanna convert dollar to gold, if gold production is slower than the interests? You can't convince us that banks can cover their balance with gold.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
There would be deflation, prices would go down as opposed to now when there is inflation where you have more dollars but prices go up. You wouldnt have as many dollars but your purchasing power would be much greater. Something that cost $100 in the early 1800s would be $64 in the early 1900s. Now that we are off the gold standard something that cost $4 in the early 1900s costs over $100 today.
masflojo 2 years ago 3
You can't be talking to me, because i was referring to another subject.
I'm talking about reverting money to gold.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
i thought you meant the gold standard not actually currency consisting of gold.
masflojo 2 years ago
Yes, because the real problem is not the gold. The problem is interest.
You'll need to reset the economy and remove all interest, then revert the money to gold.
In our Islamic banks they don't charge interest, but when you depose you get the profit, which come from the banks investments, because your deposit is considered instrument. You either get profit or lose profit, but the fact is that you mostly get the profit. Long subject.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Niet! I disagree with you on your understanding of interest!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Please tell me why.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Interest, in its primary function is the reward the entrepreneur gains for engaging in a business venture. When HP invest 500 dollars to make a computer and then sell it for 600 dollars; 100 dollars represent the interest! In the long run of course, along with technological advances, the cost of production will be lowered and so will the market price for a computer. It is the same basic function whether in banking or manufacturing. Of course the more risky, the higher the interest for a venture.
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
" In the long run of course, along with technological advances, the cost of production will be lowered and so will the market price for a computer."
Can you give me one example? Because seems that everything becoming more expensive. Also money value is lowered which is the main problem behind the present day economical crises.
Interest is selling and buying money, so where is the manufacturing and business, if you only trade the currency itself?
Bakkuto 2 years ago
It is pretty simple indeed! When cell phones first appeared, they were not only quite cumbersome but also out of the reach of the average joe. With better allocation of resource came lower price and almost anyone AROUND the world has a cell phone. Same with computers, cars, shoes, clothes, video games, TV...Etc The value of these things are quite stable; but the monetary issue is our inflationary governments that are printing paper money and debasing the currency!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Actually, if we had a sound money system out of the reach of politician and central bankers, our money will be gaining in values and we will be able to buy more things with less money. The manipulation of central bankers through the fractional reserve system and the cutting of interest rate to prop up the economy is the real and central issue of the day! The dollar has lost 30% of its value since 2000! And Obama isn't helping! Buy GOLD my friend!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"! The dollar has lost 30% of its value since 2000!" Isn't 30% more like most interests?
Okay let me explain it in an easier way:
If we have more money then we should increase the products price, in order to equal between consumption and income. Right?
So if we have interest then money increases, then products become more expensive. Simple economics really.
Compare gold prices like 5 years ago and present day, and tell me if the money value has fallen. It is not Obama's mistake.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
What are you talking about dude? Seriously! Who issue our current money notes if not the FED that happens to be an arm of the government! In 2000, the interest boom went bust and we should have gotten into a recession, a rather severe one indeed! But, the then FED chairman lowered "interest rates" to 1% in order to allow banks to easy the lending requirements and overflow people with easy money! Bad money mixing with good money reduce the purchasing power of the money! I
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
The banker are working side to side with big corporations, the governments and the military industry! That's fascism! In a society where justice reign, money ought to be removed from the hand of one individual like in the 19th century from the KINGS, or an institution like now, from the GOVERNMENT. That's the battle of the future that I foresee! Nobody is above the laws or should be treated differently that the layman! No one is too big to fail even a GOVERNMENT!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
In a market economy, the interest rate function as an incentive for the entrepreneur and investor. None will invest if he thinks that we will not recoup a significant profit from his investment. When the central banks artificially lower interest rates, it is misinforming people toward allocating resources in domains they wouldn't have initially engaged in before! That of course lead to a bust and a need to clean up these malinvestment: That's what is a called a RECESSION!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Okay, so the investor is getting the profit. Have you even considered the loans? Loans are more than the investments, you know that right? The majority are the poor who needs the money, not the investor. If you consider their loans then their profits that they gain from the market, then taxes. Do you really think they will gain profits or fall in more debts?
Its an advantage for the investor but disadvantage for the borrower.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
That's where you get it wrong my friend! Loans are meant to be "invested" into a productive activity, not for consumption like many of us have fallen into. The person who is providing a loan expect to be repaid from a risky he is taking (Meaning he might not be paid back.) When the poor takes a loan to buy a car or some clothes, what is he adding into the economy? That's why we are in so much trouble these days! When someone takes a loan to start a business, he is creating jobs for example.
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"When the poor takes a loan to buy a car or some clothes, what is he adding into the economy?" Who pays back(the majority) does add interest(virtual money) to the economy.
Most people pay back the loan to the bank, and if not banks do pay insurance.
But this is far from the topic.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Well, my point here is that "loans" should not be extended for consumption but for a productive activity. Instead of taking loans to buy things, people should "save" their earned money to consume as they please! . The consumer debt of the USA is 14 trillions! Americans by a large are bankrupt! That's a tragedy! Japan went through a severe recession in the 90s, but they didn't get obliterated because the Japanese citizens are great savers. Their production outperformed the USA!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
You view, in my opinion this issue of money and interest as a class warfare against the poor. First of all, whether do you draw the line between the poors? There are rich people who used to be "poor" and worked their way into a better living standard! Who or what institution will hold the sword of justice to eliminate the exploitation of the proletariat? The best solution is to allow individual to be accountable for their actions whether bankers or "poors".
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
True, but there is a better offer. People who borrow can pay the same amount of money, and the banks investment should take place in production, so investors either gain profit of lose. That would be fair for both sides, also it wont create virtual money, which destroy the economy.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Your point is interesting! Fairness? Where have you ever witness that in mankind history? No my friend, people are before anything motivated by "self-interest"! Like it or not! The elimination of central banking and it replacement by a system of Gold standard would truly be more effective than FIAT money! Money will cease to be a tool and weapon of governments, but rather a mean of exchange of goods and services. The market alone will dictate the interest rate and people will be more responsible
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"Your point is interesting! Fairness? Where have you ever witness that in mankind history?" Lmao!!! Your point is right too in the next sentences, but you'll still need to get rid of the interest. You don't have enough gold to cover the amount of the (Virtual)money you have from interest.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
You are confusing fractional reserve banking system with interest my friend. Interest has nothing to do with whatever you are trying to enunciate! I am sorry to say that your understanding of monetary policy is very limited. Interest is a component of the market and not of money creation unless you have a FIAT money system controlled by central banks; and in the USA, the FED happens to be a private banking institution!
The quality of the money is not expressed in ITS quantity but in ITS VALUE!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
This is why i said: "Compare gold prices like 5 years ago and present day, and tell me if the money value has fallen."
You'll get chocked when you realize how much gold is a dollar. It might even reach copper. lol. Just imagine if they did it tomorrow(process it in your mind)
FIAT is most responsible for that extra cash the lowered the money value, and the FED is responsible for the extra interest which make them need more dollars from the FED.
I was talking in general.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
You are fucking idiot, sorry! What are you mumbling about?
" The FED is responsible for the extra interest which make them need more dollars from the fed"? What thee hell is that supposed to mean?
Ok! Do you mean that" By artificially cutting the interest rate, thus increasing the money supply, the Fed is debasing the currency; therefore, more dollars are needed to for the purchase of a value item." You will have to improve your enunciation of economic principles! The FED IS THE PROBLEM!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Sorry i mistyped that last part (fed) was suppose to be (fiat).
FED is the problem because of the interest that raises, and FIAT is also responsible for decreasing the money value by printing.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
I understand your point now; but I shall advise you to improve your enunciation of economic principles.
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Its not my mother language. Sorry for that.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Ok! now I understand your point of view as far as interests are concerned. You base your assertion from an Islamic perspective. It is all pretty and dandy to "expect" a moral approach toward economic exchange and lending practices in particular; but this is practically unrealistic since most people do not deal with economic activities from a Muslim perspective, let alone that not all Muslim will renounce in the idea of maximizing their profit by any means necessary.
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
[let alone that not all Muslim will renounce in the idea of maximizing their profit by any means necessary.]
We do have Islamic banks and they invest pretty good on property building (then selling or renting) Also most products trade. Islamic banks use your money in business, and share the prophet with you.
The only problem that faces non-Muslims is that It Is an Islamic economy system.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
I said "NOT ALL Muslims"; and not all Muslims live their live faithfully along the lines traced by the Koran! Which is even impossible in the real world! Islamic banking is a good approach and a respectable way of avoiding greed and excess! But, I believe that the Austrian perspective is better applicable to the diverse world in which we live! More, Dubai and the Emirates are Muslims Nations; but, they are suffering also from the real estate bust! Faith to me is an individual issue!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Dubai is just one city in Emirates, only one city means nothing compared to more than 50 country. And to be more accurate foreign westerners are most suffering in Dubai. Besides Dubai does not fully follow the Islamic economical system, Saudi Arabia does. Have you ever heard that Saudi suffered economical problem? Never happened, because Islamic economical system also involve the taxation, it covers it all.
"not all Muslims live their live faithfully" True.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Look, Egypt is a Muslim country and it has problems, Algeria, pakistan, Turkemanistan, Morrocco...etc These country ain't exactly at the point of scientific development and human development. It takes a lot of factor to permit a Nation to truly reach it full potential and allow its citizens to enjoy the fruits of their labors. You can't hold saudi Arabia as an example of economic development! You must be joking! 50 years ago it was a desert until its oil reserves were unleashed!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"Egypt is a Muslim country and it has problems, Algeria, pakistan, Turkemanistan, Morrocco" all of them are secular. I'm Egyptian and our country is secular.
50 years ago there was no Saudi Arabia, it was part of the Ottoman empire. And the Ottoman empire was also one of the best economic countries. Then you mention oil, okay then Egypt one of most productive in natural oil, phosphates, iron, and lots more, but it is secular.
"Europe in the middle Age" Its called dark ages.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Dark age it was primarily because of the strict application of religious laws over individuals! And, that is my point! You cannot expect a prosperous economy and justice with the strict application of a biased religious practice! Christianity, Islam, Buddhism are nothing but religious practices that should be concentrated on individual own spirituality! That's all I am trying to say! Not all Egyptians are Muslims and not all muslims practice Islam!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"Dark age it was primarily because of the strict application of religious laws over individuals!" Same thing was in the Islamic state at the same period of time, which proves the domination of our system.
"Not all Egyptians are Muslims" At least 80% are Muslims.
Anyway if we go deep in religion conversation then we're going off the topic of that video. We can personal message each other.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
It is not a matter of domination! Otherwise what about today? Most Muslim Nations are eating up the crumbs from the Westerns tables, and the USA in particular. Malaysia is a majoritary Muslim country but it is quite successful. Religion is a SPIRITUAL ISSUE! And, like I have told you, the Islamic at that time were reading socrates, plato and Aristotle; exchanging with Chineses technologically, inventing technologies! There was an atmosphere of innovation unrelated to the religious fanatism!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"Most Muslim Nations are eating up the crumbs from the Westerns tables" Lmao, where is the example? You keep saying stuff without supporting it, besides as I mentioned MOST Muslim countries are secular and those are the most who suffer.
"Religion is a SPIRITUAL ISSUE" In Islam its not. a person should either accept it all, or reject all.
"the Islamic at that time were reading socrates, plato and Aristotle; exchanging with Chineses technologically, inventing technologies!" Not against sharya.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
And that is the difference between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. We do encourage improvement. Not like the church when i was fighting science in the dark ages.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Well, what about wahhabist so called scholars banning TV is Saudi arabia; preventing women from driving? What is the logical and moral explanation to such nonsenses! What will happen in SA when oil revenue dwindles and the royal Family is no more able to appease the religious extremist with heaps of dollars? Look at Sudan and its murderous regime supported by SA! You can't be that foolish! Does Allah promote enslavement and genocide? Wahhabism is not Islam and religion is an individual matter!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"what about wahhabist so called scholars banning TV is Saudi arabia" They do have lots of TV channels. "preventing women from driving?" Read my comments. "Sudan and its murderous regime" did you even prove that?
"enslavement and genocide" Ask yourself you just solved it, of course its not allowed in Islam.
I see that you suddenly got mad at Islam with even trying to read my comments.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
The regime in Suddan is supporting murderous militias in Darfur? Come on; you can't be that naive! The religious fanaticism in Sudan is actually more violent than in SA! Read the news!
My point is related to economics and interest my friend! I am just trying to show you that you cannot try to reigidly apply the precept of a religion to guide the economic life of a nation! People will always be people! Muslim, christian, Jews, Buddhists..etc
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"The regime in Suddan is supporting murderous militias in Darfur?" Is that even logical, you really need to understand politics. First that has nothing to do with Islam. Second how can the government maintain control over the country if they gave the chance to militias? They are fighting the militias in Darfur not the opposite.
"you cannot try to reigidly apply the precept of a religion to guide the economic life of a nation!" You provided nothing proves such thing against Islam.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Someone needs to improve his understanding of politics! And it ain't me! You are a jock as far as the history of Sudan is concerned! what you call " Militia" are nothing but Christian sudanese that are fighting against an Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship supported and financed by Saudi Arabia! As a matter of fact, Christianism pre-date Islam in sudan! You are showing your utter ignorance of history!Islam appeared in sudan only in 1882 with the conquest of Ali of egypt! Dude, check yourself!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"what you call " Militia" are nothing but Christian sudanese" Yeah and they are fighting to have their own country in Sudan, of course no country would give that chance to any minority. They do still have Ethiopia which is Christian just beside then, why don't Ethiopia invite them?
"Islam appeared in sudan only in 1882 with the conquest of Ali of egypt!" Hahaahahaha man you hilarious!! Stop it for your own sake. Your making fun of yourself.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Dude! Instead of laughing like an idiot, bring up an argument to oppose my claims! Prove me that Islam was the predominant religion is Sudan Prior 1882 and the conquest of Muhamed Ali the Egyptian! Yes or no Christianity Predate ISLAM in Sudan! Prove me otherwise! And these people are not minority in their own continent and land of their ancestors! Arabs are foreigners in AFRICA! That's the fact! So, you better get some glasses for you need to improve your intellectual vision!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"Instead of laughing like an idiot" Who is the bigot now?
Mate please have some respect.
Now about Sudan and Islam, as everybody knows Arabs were known of trade, and trade was the step for traveling into Sudan, then came Islam and also through talk Islam has even reached Nigeria.
What you don't know is that Islam has reached most of the world even without Islamic state power.
Islam did spread by the word.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
You haven't answered my question: yes or no did Christianity pre-date Islam in what is today Sudan? Religion spread in multiple manners; military, trade, conversion of a King...etc You do not want to go about Nigeria either friend! Ever heard of Ousman Dam fodio? He conquered most of Northen Nigeria and imposed Islam to his subject! If a king convert to a religion and conquer a land, he might as well impose his new religion of his new subject! The CASE WOULDN'T BE DIFFERENT WITH MOHAMED ALI!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
" did Christianity pre-date Islam in what is today Sudan?" Yes, also Egypt, Palestine, northern SA, Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Morocco...etc.
"You do not want to go about Nigeria either friend!" Yeah USA is already there, plus the west slave trade.
Muhammad Ali just united Egypt with Sudan, he didn't force Islam. You are reading from misleading information.
[No compulsion in religion] This is from the Quran.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Where you there to witness Muhamad Ali religious policies! You are a funny guy! In a previous comment you stated that the "Christian Militians" should unite with Ethiopia as they want to follow their faith! The true is that religion is not even the cause of the Sudan war, but OIL! That's why I stated that I am against the political use of RELIGION whether be Christian, Islam or whatever!
And you weren't aware of the terrorist explosion is SA in 2003-4? How old are you?
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"Where you there to witness Muhamad Ali religious policies!" Were you?
"should unite with Ethiopia" No they should migrate if they want to live in a Christian country.
"Sudan war, but OIL!" Now your doing some real search, but what does religion has to do with this statement?
I did say the SA is fighting those terrorists, you didn't read all my replies.
I'm 27 male and married 2 daughters.
Lol wanna know where is live exactly? just kidding.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Why should they MIGRATE FROM THE LAND OF THEIR ANCESTOR because of a foreign religion? Are you out of your mind? It is THEIR LANDS, and no reasons and justification should be employed to kick them out! By stating your comments, you are condoning the murder and genocides of MILLIONS of innocents!
Why aren't the PALESTINIANS moving in EGYPT or SAUDI ARABIA! After all, they can't get along with the JEWS! They can move in these lands to live according to the PROPHET! Beware of your own statements!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Then they respect the majority. Simple logic. Even if they vote the majority do what they want. Isn't that democracy, besides they get judged by their book. Isn't that fair enough? They pay less to the government than Muslims, isn't that better?
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Southern Sudanese and Northen Sudanese are the same people; THEY ARE BLACK AFRICAN FOOLISHLY KILLING EACH OTHERS IN THE NAME OF FOREIGN GODS while OIL is the main argument of their BATTLE! The leaders know that oil is the real cause of that war but the "religion, the opium of the people" is MARKETED for popular support!
That's quite simple: Most POLITICIAN COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THEIR FAITH IN WHATEVER GOD!
THE OIL IS IN THE SOUTH DUUUUUUDE! WHICH RESPECT ARE U TALKING ABOUT??
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Why don't you go there and solve the problem yourself? It would be cool you know.
No need for this conversation you claimed that you know history and you don't, you just use your Islam-haters websites and misleading text to make an argument. You know nothing about our history.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
OUR HISTORY? Who is OURS??
Your muslims brotherhood is a fiction; Come back in the real world!! You are an Egyptian who CLAIMS to be a faithful Muslim yet support a violent genocide in Sudan! I have never red anything from no stupid websites! When we began this conversation I praised the achievements of the MOORS IN ANDALOUSIA! This is not about religion but sciences and evolution of ideas as far as I am concerned!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Saudi Arabia is in the pocket of the USA! They were told ( Negotiated) to sell their oil to the USA primarily and in return the royal Family would be protected by the USA army! That's why there was terrorist explosions in Riyad a few years ago. You need to open yourself! Maybe spiritualism is something you don't understand then! Treat people the same way you would expect to be treated! That's simple!!
Part of the Koran is nothing but the old testaments of Judaism! What are u talking about!!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"Saudi Arabia is in the pocket of the USA!" Yeah we know that. What are we talking about exactly? Sharya law or politics?
"Treat people the same way you would expect to be treated!" Thats natural.
"Part of the Koran is nothing but the old testaments of Judaism! " Nope, have you even bothered reading the Quran yourself? No one has a book like it. Not even a chapter.
Seems that you are now just trying to show gaps, but the conversation was about interest and economy.
Islam is your problem.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
I couldn't care less about Islam or christianism! I am not religious, neither Christian nor Muslim. I am a spiritual person and I respect every and any belief as long as I am treated the same way!!
Remember that Al andalous was the door by which the west entered into modern age and the moors and Arabs were the gate keepers of ancient egyptians knowledge passed to Grecs and so forth. i see history on a evolutionary scope and religion on an historical eye! Come on! Islam is the latest religion!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"I am a spiritual person and I respect every and any belief as long as I am treated the same way!!" You haven't shown that during our conversation, you have turned it into a debate.
Al andalous was nothing before Islam, then Islam made it one of the best states.
"ancient egyptians knowledge passed" Well it was buried under the Roman control, use made a use of it. "Grecs and so forth." You had the Greeks knowledge have you even used it?
You got thrilled when you saw Islam's achievements.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Dude, you are a bigot and the more I read your comments, the more I am convinced of it! Islam was created as a revolt against the systematic fundamentalization of christian dogma by the church of Rome! It was a reactionary religion against christianity! That's all it is! There is no such thing as the "Islamic achievement" because islam is a religion, not a country or a Nation! Someone can be egyptian and not islamic! There was no ISLAM in egypt prior the 8th century AD!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Islam is the religion of all the prophets, worship the one God. So whatever you claim sorry its not suppose to address you, this part is between us and the people of book.
Your just going the wrong direction looking for something that support that Islam is wrong. Well this is your personal problem, I have nothing to do with that. You hate Islam? Your problem.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Your analysis is pathetic! That's why you don't like to bring about arguments since you are conscious of your own ignorance! There are many one God, and Allah is just one of them! In the name of allah, millions of people are being murdered in Darfur and that state is supported by the wahhabist sunni you took as an example of a stable ISLAMIC economy! If you can't see the connection between those points, i feel sorry for you and we should abort this discussion!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"i feel sorry for you and we should abort this discussion!" Yeah, best thing ever, specially that you bring up nothing. All of your arguments were pawned easily.
Its because you just get blind when you hear the word Islam. For you a Muslim man is a terrorist, a Muslim woman is oppressed. You really need to watch Muslim comedian making fun of such thoughts. Better than higher you blood pressure.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Muslim TV, Muslim comedians? What the hell is that? There are Muslim comedians in Senegal, in South Africa, in China, Indonesia! What do you mean by "Muslim TV?" Let me tell you something: ARABS!
Despite the fact that you have been on the African continent for 1500 years, you are still Arabs and that is evident in your comment. Morrocan view themselves as Berbers, Malaysians as Malaysians, Senegaleses as Africans! but the Egyptians are MUSLIMS, ARABS! You must distinguish arabism and ISLAM!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
You say Muslims then suddenly you jump to Arabs? What the hell is that?
Moroccans majority Muslims/minority Jews, Malaysians majority Muslims/minority Christians and Hindus and Buddhists, Senegaleses majority Muslims/minority Christians, and Egypt majority Muslims/minority Christians.
We CAN live with other religions no matter what they believe. We never forced our religion, because we are fully confident that it is the truth. No need to force it.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Well,
Morrocans are majoritary Berbers; Malaysian are malays, Indians are Indians, Senegalese are serer, peul or whatever...Before being Muslims, they have their own unique culture and historicity! If you can't understand that, I don't know what else to tell you! Islam is an external elements in their unique proper cultural being. The proof is that they practice their religion in very different fashions! Arabs appeared in history only around 500 AD! They were sabaan before that!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"If you can't understand that" You would understand my position if you were Muslim. In Islam all people are the same, they are brothers in faith. Black/White/Asian/American/Egyptian/Marsian Whatever all the same. First they belong to Islam, then goes the culture and so on.
"they practice their religion in very different fashions" All witness that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger, they pray, pay charity, they fast in ramadan, and who can preform Hajj.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Illogical! Your problem is that you view the world through the eyes of your religion and interpret everything from that perspective! Sorry but that to me is not an intellectual intelligent way of sorting out problems. There is no ISLAMIC NATIONS! There are Nation where islam IS the majoritary faith just like there are Christians, Buddist, shintoist...etc. Religion rise and fall, but people stay and remain! For 3500, Amon Ra was the GOD OF EGYPT AND SUDAN, now it is ALLAH and Jesus! FUTURE?
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"Religion rise and fall, but people stay and remain! " Can you refer to Islam according to this statement with numbers? I doubt that, you just claim you know everything. Have fun with that.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Dude, where was ISLAM PRIOR 600 AD? Even sabbean people didn't want of that New religion at the time! Look at the historical events and not at the Koran. You are blinded by your so called FAITH, and afraid of seeing the world for what it is! Maybe you truly lack SPIRITUALITY, the essence that allows you to understand who you are without need of a RELIGIOUS DOGMA! You still have a lot of homework to do I believe to even understand your own religion and its purpose!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Are we still debating?
Bakkuto 2 years ago
You seem to enjoy this discussion more than I. I have a lot of things to do and I will have to cease this discussion because you are not countering my points with your own arguments! I am the only one stating "opinions and facts" while you contend yourself with critics. This is not an intellectual discussion and I am not learning anything from you beside the fact that you believe in allah! You have made that quite obvious already! If I am wrong, prove yourself RIGHT!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You can't learn anything if you still use wrong references, you should listen to Muslims if you wanna learn, not come up with false information. Of course your intention was to bash Islam, and that is not learning.
Muhammad Ali was only trying to control the south which is Sudan in order to protect Egypt from western invasions. He hold against the French and the British. He just wanted to defend Egypt from long range, not forcing religion"Politics".
Bakkuto 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"You seem to enjoy this discussion more than I." I think i said if we are going to go that deep in religion then we should go for personal messages, at least for the respect of the video up loader but you didn't even read my message i think.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
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If I want to learn something about SUDAN, I would go to a SUDANESE BEFOREHAND, NOT AN EGYPTIAN OR AN ARAB! I have told you that your Muslim Nation exist only in your head! Sudanese are well versed in their own history and have different views depending from which perspective you stand.
You can always trown in personal messages if you like!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
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"If you wanna discuss history Egypt is my country i know enough about it." Do you even know i typed here?
"I would go to a SUDANESE BEFOREHAND, NOT AN EGYPTIAN OR AN ARAB!" I think it meant the same thing.
Really how old are you? You asked me and i told you.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
I do not hate ISLAM; I dislike religion being used as a political weapon whether it be Christianism with the pope that blessed the African slave trade or today's Mullah that are preying for the destruction of the so called infidels in Darfur! Religious fanaticism knows no creed! You pointed at Saudi Arabia as an example of a successful Nation where religious law governs economics affairs, YOU COULDN'T BE MORE WRONG! The Kings are in bed with the Americans and that's why there are problem in SA!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"I do not hate ISLAM" You do, and the simplest evidence is that you don't even check authenticity of the website you use in this debate, they totally change history.
"Mullah" I just see this term being used by westerners, we never use. In fact i don't even know what it means.
"that's why there are problem in SA!" do you even watch the news? I never heard of serious problems there.
Islam also has reached Sudan in the middle ages, our golden ages, your dark ages.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Dude, have you red my NAME? I am not a Westerner! I am african and I just happen to have emigrated in the USA! Bias is something I was raised upon; therefore I am watchful every time I quote something!
Islam is a religion just like any religion as far as history analysis it rises! You might view it as the message of God through the prophet but so did a Grec with Zeus or a Swedish with Thor! You are the one who is blatantly unwilling to view his faith on a historical perspective!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
First time my conversation with an African end up this violently. Really the only people i used talk with using simple logic, but you seem one of thousand this way.
"I am watchful every time I quote something! " No your not just spend more time in searching and you'll find out yourself.
"Zeus or Thor"
Did you notice that we worship the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus...etc?
I did show my faith due to our history we learn at school, seems that you know our history more than us.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
What is the difference between Zeus and the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus?
I am an individual, not an element of the African state of mind. People have different outlooks and I have my own! Your opinions luckily are only "Yours", not that of all Egyptians or Muslims! I know am well versed in ancient history; and if there is one thing that unify all histories, it is the prevalence of IDEOLOGY! I try to stray away from that! I look at Religion on an historical perspective! Dare to do so!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"I know am well versed in ancient history" Thats a lie. Sorry mate this is dishonesty, i don't think our argument would be helpful, if just lie like that.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
And what makes you think that I am being dishonest? All you do is copying and countering my statement without bringing about your own intellectual analysis and facts. If there is someone who is weak here, it is you! You didn't even know that most of SUDAN WAS CHRISTIAN UP UNTIL 1882!! There wasn't such a thing as sudan as a matter of fact! What irritate me the most is that we see ourselves according to the line traced by the FOREIGN MAN!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
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Darfur itself because an Islamic state in 1445, and the first state in Sudan was in 1323. So sorry you fail to prove the authenticity of your knowledge.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
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Mali was a an African empire in which the leaders where Muslims to a certain degree because of their contact with Northern Berbers and Arabs! This doesn't mean that the people didn't keep their own traditional religions. The different tribes that made Sudan must have adopted Islam, but the concept of SUDAN WAS BORN ONLY AFTER THE CONQUEST OF MOHAMED ALI! That's my point! The history of these nations is not that simple or black and white! There wasn't such a thing as SUDAN PRIOR ALI!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"All witness that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger, they pray, pay charity, they fast in ramadan, and who can preform Hajj."
These are the pratices if Islam.
"SUDAN WAS BORN ONLY AFTER THE CONQUEST OF MOHAMED ALI!" It wasn't, but whatever. Just don't fall in the wrong argument again. If you wanna discuss history Egypt is my country i know enough about it.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
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All christians pray in the name of Jesus but do not refer to themselves as a NATION! Whatever you are saying is illogical since not all Muslim practice Islam! MOHAMED ALI WAS NOT EVEN EGYPTIAN BUT ALBANIAN! You do not want to go there my friend! Let's move on to personal pages if you like!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
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I know where Muhammad Ali from, i'm Egyptian remember?
Personal pages or personal messages? No pages please. I'll delete them.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
And, i would appreciate if you would cease to quote my comments and come up with your own arguments to defend your stance!
Muhamad of Egypt invaded the Southern Nation of Sudan in the 19th century and turned those people into Muslims! The civil war of Sudan actually began in 1955 between christian and Muslim backed by Egyptians ARABS! So, you so called secular Egypt is supporting a terrorist fundamentalist state headed by a military dictator in Karthoum! You can't come against me in politics!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
If it wasn't for oil, Saudi Arabia would be seen as a tyranical extremist Nation! The oil wealth has led to an explosion in population but the rampant corruption and religious laws are in my opinion preventing a realistic economical advancement. Most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of the ruling elite! You cannot apply religious law to the daily life of individuals; look at Europe in the middle Age for proof! The Islamic Nation at the time were more "modern" than Europe in that Period
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"rampant corruption and religious laws are in my opinion preventing a realistic economical advancement." How is that?? Please give an example.
"Most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of the ruling elite!" First you should consider that it is a kingdom. Second you should check the income of the individuals, they do earn enough to make a good living. Please remember the number of homeless people who live on the garbage in west, then start comparing.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Human rights abuse are very much common in Saudi arabia, they finance international terrorism in Sudan and around the world; the sharia law dismiss the right of women and executions for banal crimes are quite common. Most of the Hijackers of 9/11 were Saudis, not mountaineers from afghanistan!! Even the Islam in Saudi arabia is not true Islam but Wahhabism! The only way to contain the extremist in SA is to pay them annually as the government does! What happens when the oil reserve empty out?
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
What does the law has to do with this?
Also "sharia law dismiss the right of women and executions for banal crimes are quite common." Not one example?
"The only way to contain the extremist in SA is to pay them annually as the government does!" hahahaha, this annual payment is the charity that i was referring to. This is that taxation system, it is a payment to poor.
Of course all nations in the world condemn terrorism, and of course we do.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
The extremist in SA are religious fanatics who have a total different interpretation of Islam than most. Wahhabism is a violent and repressive sect! You would agree with me on that regard! It is like taking the mormons of the 19th century and allowing them to apply their religious interpretation of law over the USA citizens!
Women in SA are not even allowed to DRIVE! I mean, how ridiculous is that? There is a legal explanation for a husband to beat his wife? WTF??
Is that Islam? Religion?
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"The extremist in SA are religious fanatics who have a total different interpretation of Islam than most." SA is fighting them. So what do you accuse SA of?
" Wahhabism is a violent and repressive sect!" Not true, they are just honest, because they say it openly(You either accept everything in Islam or your not a Muslim, and that what Shiites hate)
"Women in SA are not even allowed to DRIVE" They are now, it was because the didn't know how would the police act with them(They have immunity)
Bakkuto 2 years ago
"There is a legal explanation for a husband to beat his wife?" She can get divorce if she is abuse even when insulted.
Yes this is Islam, and its not only a religion, it is also a way of life.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
With the gold standard, we could simply print certificates backed at 100% by Gold! There is no need for a trillions KG of gold to make it work! That's a myth perpetuated by the advocates of FIAT money; the same system you appear to dislike so much!
Gold is nothing but a store of value unlike any other form of mean of exchange. Silver is not too far behind as well. You still have a lot of homework to do in my opinion to understand the function of interest and the monetary system.
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
Also, I think you misunderstand me went I use the term investor. An investor is someone who takes a risk for the sake of future profit. When you go to school, you are investing your time and energy in the hope of a better future. We are all investors! Babies are not investors, people on disabilities, homeless, elderly people...etc Your problem is that you limit your scope with bankers or traders...etc! That's a very narrow view that prevent you from seeing the underlying economic laws!
AFRIKTODAY 2 years ago
"How you wanna convert dollar to gold"
Did you watch the video?
Go to 12:18 where you will hear:
"THEY OFFER NO PLAN FOR RESTORING A GOLD DOLLAR, it is not that any of them would disagree with the idea, but all of them have fully confronted the reality that the idea of converting the existing FIAT currency to sound money is essentially a 19th century ideal, that presupposes an enlightened class of political managers. This condition is not met today."
[Caps used for emphasis only]
swiftysmithuk 2 years ago
Yup, but i was referring to the main subject (The Gold Dollar).
It will never work as long as you still charge interest.(conclusion)
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Comment removed
poohtoob 2 years ago
Yup you missed it.
Interest create imaginary money that governments can't cover, which is the main cause of the world economy crises. Beside the tax policy.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
Comment removed
poohtoob 2 years ago
Sorry but where did you consider what i posted in your argument?
Seems that i'm talking to myself.
Can you simply produce gold(The main banking currency) as fast as the interest grow?
Please just answer that question, don't just quote others.
Bakkuto 2 years ago
February 6, 2009
At 2 minutes, 20 seconds into this C-Span video clip, Rep. Paul Kanjorski of Pennsylvania explains how the Federal Reserve told Congress members about a "tremendous draw-down of money market accounts in the United States, to the tune of $550 billion dollars." According to Kanjorski, this electronic transfer occured over the period of an hour or two.
marinello6 2 years ago
to marinello6. Are you saying someone took $550B out to drop the market? B/Trillionaires like the Rothschild class can slosh money into any market, causing demand i.e. prices to soar, then they cash out and do it again. They don't play for money but for power. Quite interesting on this subject video.google Energy Market Manipulation.
sustaincain 2 years ago
I thought it was done by the more educated people among the public. You sound like you have additional insight that I have not even thought of. Maybe a little bit of both.....Elites and smart money.
marinello6 2 years ago
Great video!
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito (Latin: Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it)
Texican1821 3 years ago
The american financial system is at the center of a global economic maelstrom that nobody dares call the old & dying patriarcal materailism paradigm. It is based on the illusion & lie of property dictating jurisprudence & governance. It is also a mirror of our level of evolution, the ultimate test is death & transformation, wether we like it or not. Life balances everything in her own way, in her own time. No tricky accounting is good or fast enough to cheat her ever but who can believe that?
gtao22 3 years ago
Does anyone consider that the central banks are headed by hyper-elitists? HYPER-ELITISM. Power-hungry SADISTS. They are purposely destroying our economy so that they can gain even MORE control. Order out of chaos...does that ring a bell? They are destroying the middle class ON PURPOSE to create a chasm between themselves and the poor. Ben Bernanke is not "incompetent"! He is FOLLOWING ORDERS. A police state will ensue out of this chaos and many will be KILLED. Many will STARVE. WAKE UP, America.
TadRapidly 3 years ago 3
Can you imagine that there are people who don't understand how I could be an anarchist?
CurtHowland 3 years ago
Hey, NWO, I don't know that guy, Curt! He's a total stranger! I totally disagree with him! Hooray for the NWO! Hooray, I say! ;-)
TadRapidly 3 years ago
Stupid administrations? NO.They're doing it ON PURPOSE. When are people going to wake up to this?
TadRapidly 3 years ago
Lew Rockwell is awesome!
magichandpuppet 3 years ago
DOn't make 9/11 truth look bad.
Rustyshackleford08 3 years ago
Excellent. I wish I could give it 6 stars.
prayfortruejustice 3 years ago 2
Ron Paul 2012. He should have been in 2008.
Mises Institute for the win!
djsherin 3 years ago
Gosh... this was god
BlueSkies360 3 years ago
It was actually quite a good analogy.
djsherin 3 years ago
"are u 12?"
No. I'm old enough to write in complete sentences, with proper punctuation. Some might say grammar is an obsolete endeavor, I consider it the sign of someone who cares about their words.
But then, at 12 I also made that effort. So who is to say?
CurtHowland 3 years ago 5
Don't bother with guys like peopleasylum. They're annoying as hell, but they aren't very intelligent. I've come across people that are convinced absolutely that the Depression ended in 1933. You can't argue with people like that.
djsherin 3 years ago 3
theres nothing wrong with having an opinion, i just dont understand why this guys being so disrespectful about it...
"what a supreme twit you are"
"imbecile"
"you fucking retard"
"FUCKHEAD"
"another asshole"
"nice to get a reply from u without an insult"
patriot5108 3 years ago 2
thats what people of lesser intelligence do, sounds like hes straight out of the ghetto, and he asks, "will this human race ever evolve", not with people like you making babies, no we wont.
you sure seem to prove your point that your no better than an animal
sydkneep 3 years ago 3
Stop talking to this peopleasylum, shes obviously a desperate troll. Your wasting energy.
xKENNY1997x 3 years ago 3
Fair enough, I shall desist. I agree it seems a waste of time.
CurtHowland 3 years ago 3
It's not an analog of anything.
It's called an "example".
My hypothesis is, "gold is stable".
As an example of this stability, I use the price of a good men's suit over a span of time.
CurtHowland 3 years ago 2
I disagree.
The way I see it, since gold is nearly constant, it is currencies that are measured in gold.
For instance, in Rome around the year 0, a full men's suit cost about one oz of gold.
Today, you can get a good men's suit for....about 1 oz of gold.
CurtHowland 3 years ago 4
observing gold's stability over time is an oversimplification of value. more importantly, what basket of goods did one ounce of gold buy in ancient rome? did it buy a herd of cattle or a cheap hooker? next we can compare the baskets to what an ounce of gold might buy you today. excuse the crude analogy but i hope the point is conveyed.
totallyshamanistic 3 years ago
that's a good point. This kind of what gold has bought throughout history has been referenced many times. Probably the most popular reference is comparing what an ounce of gold has bought throughout history with regard to clothing. To sum it up, there has generally been consistency.
magichandpuppet 3 years ago 2
well if consistency matters, isn't an inflationary monetary policy consistent? the value of each dollar declines over time making long-term contracts attractive while emphasizing immediate consumption. expectations of value are obliterated with gold because it depends on the quantity of reserves and the ability to manage the stock of cash, which may or may not grow/decline in the future. wouldn't this create a volatile environment for exchange or engaging in long contracts?
totallyshamanistic 3 years ago
What matters is having a currency of sound value so that when you work for it and save it, it is not devalued. The problem with a fraudulent currency as you suggest is that, first of all, those who print it and spend it first get the most value from the new currency. The new currency dilutes the value of the rest of the currency out there and this effect takes place as the new currency gets transferred throughout the system. You should research fiat currencies and the destruction they cause.
magichandpuppet 3 years ago
magic, inflation is a tax and provides a transfer of wealth, which i consider undesirable under most circumstances. but prices do catch up to the rate of inflation in the long run, viz. the neutrality of money. what about short term adjustments like cost of living wages?although it may be undesirable, when inflation is expected, historically, it does not cause major problems.
totallyshamanistic 3 years ago
to me, gold seems to have profound flaws. if we vault gold then our currency is a certificate for that commodity, of equal value. how do you plan on trading large quantities of gold to people who want to redeem their cash for gold?if cash is not redeemable for gold, does it have any real value?isn't fiat currency too?
secondly, if we don't mint our gold supply into coins, how do we plan on physically representing the money supply; by printing paper again?don't we run into the same problem?
totallyshamanistic 3 years ago
In our current economic system, what gives money value is scarcity. The more dollars there are, the less each one is worth. This is because more dollars cause prices to rise.
When a currency is backed by gold, the number of bills that can be printed is limited by the amount of gold, which maintains discipline in the printing of the currency.
With fiat currencies, there is no limit. Therefore, throughout history, no country using fiat money has ever resisted destroying the currency.
justingaylor 3 years ago 5
that seems absolutely true justin. and because i am not well informed on historical matters, maybe you can correct my ignorance. weren't economic catastrophes like the great depression exacerbated by representing the gold stock inadequately? in other words, if it is the case that the amount of gold is fixed, it does not necessarily mean that the currency printed will represent the gold stock accurately.
totallyshamanistic 3 years ago
Well, the entity issuing the currency would only be allowed to print bills if they are backed by physical gold somewhere. As new gold is discovered, more currency can be issued, but this would be very slow growth in the money supply.
By the way, there is no shame in ignorance, only the acceptance of it. I began learning economics by reading "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt. If you look in my profile, you will find a playlist on it. The book is free online too. :)
justingaylor 3 years ago
justin, i appreciate the primitive walkthrough of the theory, but none of my concerns have been addressed. for instance, what if foreign countries aren't on the gold standard? how do we value their trade or sell them our government debt? also, what prevents a money printer from printing more/less currency then there is gold stock? there is still moral hazard. lastly, if we don't directly trade gold, then isn't our currency still fiat? these are real problems that need to be addressed.
totallyshamanistic 3 years ago
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InventorGadget 3 years ago
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InventorGadget 3 years ago
The problem is that you can print money on the gold standard, just like FDR did in the 1930's.
guitarjosh 2 years ago
"well if consistency matters, isn't an inflationary monetary policy consistent?"
Your thinking like a lobster. If you put it in boiling water it will writhe in pain and die but if u put the same lobster in room temp water and slowly boil it, the lobster wont move or scream.
Meaning if u do it slowly no1 will care
Inflation is not consistent. Wages dont increase with the inflation. One year your paying $2 for milk. 5 yrs later it is $5. Thats not consistent. That is an attack on the working class
ORACLE063 3 years ago 2
Lobsters don't have a nervous system which is complex enough to comprehend pain. Just thought you should know. Oh and they don't scream either.
601373 3 years ago
"primarily because lobsters (and other decapod crustaceans) "have opioid receptors and respond to opioids (analgesics such as morphine) in a similar way to vertebrates," indicating that lobsters' reaction to injury changes when painkillers are applied. The similarities in lobsters' and vertebrates' stress systems and behavioral responses to noxious stimuli were given as additional evidence for their capacity for pain"
ORACLE063 3 years ago
"A 2007 study at Queen's University, Belfast, suggested that crustaceans do feel pain. Acetic acid was placed on the antennae of 144 prawns; the animals responded by rubbing the affected areas."
ORACLE063 3 years ago
Nice of you not to say something stupid.
Ah, you're confusing the dollar price of gold with gold itself. Ok, that makes sense then.
CurtHowland 3 years ago 5
lol
NickyTheHeel 3 years ago 2
I'm curious why you think that.
Since gold doesn't suffer from the effects of printing money, because gold is mined, it seems perfectly reasonable that gold would maintain value when the dollar collapses.
I would go so far as to say that is exactly what has happened in the past.
Can you support why you think gold will lose value when the dollar collapses?
CurtHowland 3 years ago 3
I wish
Maybe in a 1000 years.
jman375 3 years ago
If the Russian college professor is correct, and the United States breaks up in a couple of years, it would be perfectly reasonable that some of the resulting "States" would return to a commodity money standard.
Certainly, repudiation may be the only way "we" people get out from under the impossible debt being created in our name right now.
CurtHowland 3 years ago
I'm from the UK.
My only hope would be the right thing would be done in the US and it would be blindly copied here.
But i can see if anything like that happened and things did get better,it wouldn't be long before there was this great idea to start printing money,so we can feed poor people and raise up the sick.
I'd be willing to step over people sleeping in the street,while going to work.
jman375 3 years ago
Well, I'm pretty sure that one of the first things the Free States are going to have to deal with is immigration.
CurtHowland 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
White power
aquafishsoup 3 years ago
Bah! GOLD POWER!
CurtHowland 3 years ago 3
Lew Rockwell rocks!
fagan411 3 years ago 2
Wow, that is great. You really described how I have been feeling about the current government and their meddling in the economy. I try and tell all my friends when the depression comes up that they should not fear. There is nothing mysterious going on. Just economic law in action.
sodami 3 years ago 5
That was a very grounding and realistic message. When Obama is talking about ideas and bs for the most part, this guys talking about the way things really work.
Really liked the video.
MRSketch09 3 years ago 8