waterboarding IS torture

[nycjersey29]

hilarious, I've been waterboarded and I'm still here- it's what makes us different then the rest of you pussy's I guess!???????????????????????? morons-

[sydferret]

Do to others as you would have them do to you.

[Azar7319]

is beheading someone torture or setting off a car bomb near a school or flying a jet full of women and children into building.why do people care about these murderers!!!

[SumnerMurrayRedstone]

@Azar7319 No. The problem isn't the procedure. The problem is you don't know who is responsible for what act, there's been no judge and jury, you're only acting out a Dirty Harry scenario, you can in effect harass (or assassinate) anyone you want under cover of 'enemy of the state' with no proof given. This is where your own civil rights get eaten away. Probably too advanced a concept for you however.

[JimmyHasTourrettes]

Not so bad...

[SumnerMurrayRedstone]

@JimmyHasTourrettes Cool. Let us try it on you then. You're game, right? Because it's - how did you put it - 'not so bad'? Cheers, dimwit.

[RalphWiggum1989]

at 53 sec is that water hitting his balls?

[Spillerix]

It is disgusting no only that there are people in a democratic country that practice torture, but also that there are actually people who try to white-wash it.

[sugarpuddin88]

Are places like Gitmo an example of human projection by a society?

I submit that Corporations, by virtue of their legal protection scheme, encourage the elimination of compassion on the human level

Thus, a society like America, (which I argue is a socialist country for corporations), is made largely of citizens who daily disconnect themselves from compassion

The net result is a war mongering society that allows torture & violations of human decency!

[jamesfehon]

That's disgusting. You're suggesting waterboarding, which results in whoevers being suggested to this form of torture thinking they're about to drown, is akin to shouting at someone.

Have you even watched this video?

It's against the convention on torture, is not effective, and IS ILLEGAL IN THE US. That's why the former administration and those who wrote up the memo's allowing it are potentially going to be brought to trial.

Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

[theoneandonlymelvin]

joba606 you said and I quote,"waterboarding is a brutal interrogation tactic - no doubt

But not torture."

I would like to know (or maybe not) what your definition of "torture" is?

So you are saying you that if you were restrained against your will and had gallons of water forcibly poured down your throat that you would be fine with this?

I think not.

Quit being ignorant, open your eyes to what is happening to innocent people around the world. (oh and go back to watching FOX news)

[joba606]

If you were capable of reading past the first page, you might've read my earlier post on that subject.

Christopher Hitchens and other journalists have VOLUNTEERED to undergo waterboarding. Just like our Marines and Special Forces undergo it.

That's the difference.

Learn, fool.

[silversurfer2025]

The FACT is World War 2 was a "MODERN INQUISITION" the German Nazis and Croatian Ustasha emigrated to Latin America and United States to CONTINUE the "Third Reich of Europe" Now "FOURTH REICH of Europe" (European Union,Nato and United Nations in New York City) All the European Dictators were Papists,Romanists whose allegiance went to the Pope of Rome.

[silversurfer2025]

The was used in the Holy Office of Inquisition, today the Grand Inquisitor is Prefect William Levada, former Archbishop of San Fransisco! The II Vatican decreed that the dreaded Council of Trent 1554-63, would enter the "final phase" the "WORLDWIDE INQUISITION" OR NAMELY "WAR ON TERROR". Once Amerika has officially embraced martial law/REDALERT will desend into an "EXTERMINATION PHASE" with Nato Response Forces parachuting, Nato Strike Forces, non-Nato Forces, Russia/China! Nato SACT in NORFOLK

[simoncowellscores]

I disagree about your anti-death penalty stance in your other videos but completely agree that waterboarding is torture. It's a disgrace that we used it and a stain upon our great nation's history.

[joba606]

As I said, if Moussaoui was made to talk when we arrested him, 9/11 would've been avoided. Does that qualify as a catastophe to you?

Whether you believe it or not, the waterboarding of Khalid Sheik Mohammed saved lives. He knew more about Al Qaeda than even Bin Laden, and he would've been trying to pull off another 9/11, or worse, as long as he lived.

Preventing the next terrorist attack is more important than your squeamishness about waterboarding.

[TarotMoon]

should it be joba666 instead?

[joba606]

Stop smoking pot.

[TarotMoon]

Damien,. I not only do not smoke pot , I do not do illegal drugs of any kind. I am just a nearly fifty year old Democrat/humanitarian who does not believe in torture.

[joba606]

TarotMoron, you are no more a humanitarian than I'm Satan.

I simply believe that monsters who intend to murder thousands of innocent people should be treated more harshly in order to SAVE LIVES.

But because of your leftist naivete, you think the only monsters are those who disagree with you politically, not those who are actually trying to slaughter you and your family.

That's why your Bush Derangement Syndrome has caused you to despise Bush more than you despise Bin Laden.

[Marcusartists]

Torturing people does not "save lives", it creates future enemies, and that is something the US should try to stop doing. One of the reasons 9-11 happened was because of US occupation/bombing/invading, etc., of foreign nations. Also, it strikes the rest of the world as a little silly and stupid that the US claims to be spreading "peace and democracy", while at the same time detaining people without charge and torturing them.

Doesn't work.

[joba606]

Waterboarding works.

Former CIA Director George Tenet, and former CIA Bin Laden Unit chief Michael Scheuer have already said so.

It has provided accurate, actionable intel in preventing further attacks on our country.

9/11 happened because of the psychotic teachings of Islamic supremacism.

The animals at Gitmo are stuck there because their countries of origin don't want them back.

The 'detainees' don't all want to go back - their countries won't be as nice to them as we were.

[joba606]

If you think waterboarding is unacceptable, what is your alternative method that YOU approve of, for getting captured mass-murdering fascists to give up information in order to prevent the next 9/11 and save lives? Badmouthing what Bush does simply because Bush does it is not an answer.

[Scandium98]

the caption did not even mention Bush--other policymakers have just as much to do with it. Plus, not all of those captured are guilty, they are mere suspects - and personally if someone were all but drowning me repeatedly i would say just about anything (true or not) to get them to stop. How is that reliable information? Try interrogating without torture, like we do to the millions of our own population that we imprison, that's the alternative.

[joba606]

Only 3 high-value terrorist leaders - including Khalid Sheik Mohammed - have been waterboarded.

Captured high-value terrorists who are talking and answering questions don't get waterboarded. Only if they REFUSE to talk, do they get soaked.

Zacharias Moussaoui was captured one month before 9/11. FBI agents knew he was involved in some plot but of course, at the time, had no reason to waterboard him.

If Moussaoui had been forced to talk, 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

Lives are at stake.

[Scandium98]

Only 3 were admitted to by the CIA-the actual numbers are likely higher. Even so, international consensus and many US veterans, politicians, military commanders etc. agree it's torture. During the Salem witch trials, suspects were tortured into admitting their 'witchcraft' and naming other 'witch' conspirators-is that info reliable?? Were Moussaoui tortured, he could still lie (he DID lie and was inconsistent thru trial re: his 9/11 involvement), so no lives would have been saved.

[joba606]

You are guessing that more than 3 terrorists have been waterboarded - you have no reliable information to prove that. Just your leftist paranoia.

PROFESSIONAL U.S. interrogators would've gotten Moussaoui to talk and cough up the truth. They can tell truth from bullshit.

Witch trials? Whatever.

[Scandium98]

you miss the point--it doesnt matter how many get tortured, it's whether the method is appropriate at all. Which brings me to the 2nd point you failed to answer--it is ineffective as a means of producing reliable info. And 'they can tell truth from bs'? Great argument. Name one major catastrophe that's been averted by our superior US interrogators. That's what I thought..the witch hunt continues.

[RealCosmicSurfer]

That is WHERE YOU ARE WRONG. I have spoken to people who worked there...What we are "told" and what actually happens are TWO different things

Paranoia? I know a medic who had to put them together after ABU GRAHIB and I have spoken to guards charged with keeping them from dying at GITMO. Paranoia? Pull your head out of that red, white and blue blindfold and look around

Before you talk about why aren't they talking? THEY HAVE...you aren't listening

[joba606]

No anonymous shit-talkers - does your 'medic' have a name? When will he be coming forward to tell his story?

Does your medic friend acknowledge that there's an onsite Red Cross center there at Gitmo that can examine the prisoners there anytime they want?

Why hasn't this medic spoken to THEM?

Why has the average prisoner at Gitmo gained 20 pounds during his incarceration there?

If abuse at Abu Ghraib was condoned, why didn't the general in charge there just say, "So, what?"

[RealCosmicSurfer]

This IS NOT TRUE. I know a former guard who has verified that this is NOT true. In fact, waterboarding is JUST THE BEGINNING, try sodomy and rape as torture; stress and sensory deprivation. This is only the tip of the iceburg

[joba606]

'Sodomy and rape'?

Christ, what paranoia.

[Marcusartists]

No, paranoia is being afraid of terrorists and thinking we can stop terrorism by torturing people. Your chances of being killed in a terrorist attack in the US are about zero.. Terrorism has always been with us. It is a tactic people use when they don't have high-tech weapons.  Remember the movie, Red Dawn? It was about a bunch of American insurgents trying to repel their invaders using any methods they could.

You fail to see the destruction the US has caused around the world.

[joba606]

The Islamic paramilitary death squads that the MSM told us were 'insurgents' deliberately targeted and slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis.

Why? To get back at us?

They punished the Iraqi population to make them hate the American liberation.

Was pretty successful in getting the American population against the war, as well.

Classic neo-Marxist guerilla warfare.

You fail to see the lies the MSM told you, as well as the destruction the terrorists/insurgents have caused.

[Marcusartists]

"You fail to see the lies the MSM told you, as well as the destruction the terrorists/insurgents have caused."

No, I see all of it, and it's all bad.

To quote Carl Sagan: "If we like them, they're Freedom Fighters". If we don't like them, they're "terrorists". In the unlikely case we can't make up our minds, they're temporarily only guerillas".

[joba606]

I wonder if the Jewish family who were executed at Chalad House in Mumbai thought, "Are these terrorists, guerillas, or freedom fighters? I can't make up my mind".

[joba606]

Sorry - they were TORTURED, and THEN executed.

My bad.

[RealCosmicSurfer]

Many of those "islamic Paramilitary death squads" of which you speak come from the same party as the "newly installed " government of IRAQ. Sunni slaughtering Shi'a especially after we paid the Shi'a leaders to stop fighting...they were like sitting ducks for those death squads-

And your insane comment about waterboarding not being torture?

Just because some idiot volunteers to BE waterboarded doesn't make the practice acceptable. Waterboarding IS TORTURE but is not the ONLY TORTURE at GITMO

[joba606]

The Sunni were the minority in post-Saddam Iraq - remember?

They took their newfound stature very poorly.

And what is YOUR alternative method THAT YOU APPROVE OF, for interrogating these psychotic mass-murdering fascists?

Again, badmouthing what Bush approved of is NOT an alternative.

Since the non-lethal methods of waterboarding and stress positions, neither of which cause any physical damage, make you queasy, what's YOUR alternative?

[joba606]

Oh by the way...

Since you leftists continue to tell me that 'torture' doesn't even work...

How come the enemy never got that memo?

Why do they still torture our POW's if it doesn't work?

[elbbirg]

If it did work would they not have ALOT more info on our gov. and the way we work. Wouldnt there be ALOT more attacks on our country. If there torture techniques worked?

[joba606]

That would require them to have kidnapped and tortured someone in our government of high intel value, in order to exploit targets of opportunity.

If this has happened, I haven't heard of it.

[jamesfehon]

joba606,

Torture is any act intentionally inflicted to cause physical or mental pain or suffering NOT just lethal acts. We've found out with the release of these memo's that waterboarding, just one of the torture techniques which are thankfully once again considered illegal, was being conducted upwards of 150 times a month on certain suspects.

[jamesfehon]

That's the definition accepted by states internationally as agreed in the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

Personal assertions of own definitions pale in insignificance. The Justice department thought it could stretch the law, It's harder to prove lasting mental pain and suffering but imagine being subject to that treatment.

If you're happy to justify acting like this because 'the enemy' does so too, what makes you any better?

[joba606]

What makes me better is that I don't now, nor have I ever, plotted and carried out the deliberate targeting and slaughter of innocent people.

Those who do deserve what they get when they're captured.

In over 90% of the world's police and military circles, when a terrorist gets captured, he's brought down to some basement and beaten by men with clubs.

George W. Bush REFUSED to do that.

You want to know how to make sure you don't ever get waterboarded?

Don't be a terrorist.

[jamesfehon]

What's a terrorist joba606 who decides? And when we're refering to the deliberate targetting & slaughter of innocent people, there's operations where US and certain nations it supports have done just that when it furthers their aims.

I'll make sure *no-one* ever gets tortured by a supposedly modern, free and democratic country by putting pressure on governments to actually live up to the basic principals of human rights. No one deserves to be tortured & no government can get away with it

[joba606]

WHAT'S A TERRORIST?!!!

Did you have your television on, on September 11th, 2001?

If not, you might've missed something.

The US military has gone out of its way to avoid civilian casualties while pursuing terrorists, at all times.

While innocent civilians have been accidentally killed in Iraq - as they've been killed in every single war in human history - no-one holds the 'insurgency' in Iraq accountable for the wholesale bloodbath of innocent Iraqis since the war began.

[joba606]

No matter how many innocent people were killed in Iraq - tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands - you leftists always blamed the murders on 'our presence', and NOT on the actual murderers.

It was a sweet deal for the 'insurgents' for many years - no matter how many innocent Iraqis THEY killed, the US military, America and George W. Bush always took the blame.

[joba606]

Obama's release of all the intel on how we interrogate captured terrorists is the height of classic liberal guilt, naivete and stupidity.

Helping terrorists prepare for the ways they can expect to be treated is like being given all the answers to your SAT's in advance.

Only much, much worse.

The hardships of captured mass-murdering fascists do not interest me in the slightest.

They are not SUPPOSED to like their treatment, or their incarceration.

That's the point.

[jamesfehon]

Incarceration without trial and torture while being held there.

Torture equates to a much more grave abuse of another human. You're mixing your messages. Is this punishment? Then were was their trial? Is it intelligence gathering? Because it's widely accepted as not resulting in reliable intel

It's disgusting treatment, which amounts to torture. Obama's release of this demonstrates a commitment to transparency, that governments ARE accountable to their constituencies.

[joba606]

The countries of origin that the detainees at Gitmo came from do not want their lowlives back, so they're stuck at Gitmo, until we find a better place to put them.

Waterboarding and stress positions are nonlethal interrogation methods for use when the terrorist successfully resists other interrogation methods.

It is (was, sadly) for the sole purpose of SAVING LIVES.

NOT for punishment.

It is widely accepted as not resulting in reliable intel...according to liberals everywhere.

[jamesfehon]

nonlethal interrogation methods? They cause mental harm therefore constitute torture. We're going round in circles here.

You're espousing hatred and the misinformed idea that punishing people is somehow saving lives. I understand your anger, but it doesn't add to your argument. Torture results in unreliable information people say what they think they have to to make the pain or suffering stop.

That's the intent and inherent flaw.

Start thinking for yourself.

[joba606]

'mental harm'?

By that standard we shouldn't be able to shout at the terrorist - his feelings might be hurt too severely.

This is not about my anger.

A captured terrorist has no right to remain silent.

Zaccarias Moussaoui was arrested by the FBI one month before 9/11. The FBI agents knew he was involved in some plot but couldn't make him talk.

They were still waiting on warrants to search his luggage and laptop when 9/11 happened.

[joba606]

TERRORISM is indefensible.

PREVENTING terrorism and PROTECTING HUMAN LIFE is HONORABLE - and IMPERATIVE.

[jamesfehon]

Torture is never honorable. To think so is reprehensible.

My comment earlier remains: if you act as badly as your adversary, you're just as bad. Those supporting torture are on the losing side. Bush and his administration were voted out, they agree on this.

The majority of people aren't with you on this.

We'll always come back to three basic points you're never going to be able to refute.

Torture is never ok.

It doesn't work.

and if you go down that path you're no better than 'the enemy'

[joba606]

Waterboarding and stress positions are neither 'torture' nor reprehensible.

What CIA interrogators are trying to prevent by using those techniques IS reprehensible.

A CIA interrogator is trying to save lives, the terrorist strapped to the table is trying to slaughter them - by not revealing what he knows.

My convictions don't require the masses to be 'with me on this'.

The majority just elected the least qualified man in American history to be our President.

[joba606]

On to your final 3 points - which are all completely wrong...

'Torture is never OK'

Torture of innocent people is never OK, but forcing mass-murdering fascists to break their silence is.

'It doesn't work'

That's not what the last 2 CIA directors said, along with Michael Scheuer, former head of the CIA's Bin Laden unit.

'if you go down that path you're no better than the 'enemy''.

No, our enemy BEHEADS their captives.

They don't BOTHER with waterboarding or stress positions.

[jamesfehon]

Torture is illegal - it also goes against the international convention preventing it, the United States one of the 76 countries signatory to this, not to mention any modern civil concept of basic treatment of people.

Law's don't get suspended on people's convictions. Especially not yours thankfully.

The US supreme court, international community and US voters agree on this. Not sure what it'll take for you too see how absurd what you're saying is.

[joba606]

I will never in my life care in the slightest about the plight of captured terrorists.

I don't ever want to see another day like 9/11.

Whatever is done to ensure that is righteous.

Why you and other leftists have any sympathy for these savages, enough to wear those ridiculous ribbons on your lapels in support for the animals at Gitmo who proudly admitted committing the 9/11 attacks, who would slit your throat given the chance, will boggle my mind for years to come.

[jamesfehon]

Justice isn't retribution.

Those who genuinely want to see a world without atrocities don't support their own countries commiting them.

[joba606]

Protecting human life and preventing terror attacks from happening isn't retribution - it's survival, and it's sane.

Doing what it takes to save lives is not equivalent to committing atrocities, except in the minds of paranoid leftists.

[jamesfehon]

Excusing torture by claiming it's saving lives is absurd.

'Survival' doesn't hinge on the word of a tortured detainee saying whatever it takes to stop physical and mental harm. The policies which allowed this conduct have given enemies of the United States material to use in recruiting people to their cause. That's not smart policy.

Torture is an atrocity, that's why there's a convention against it, also why it's illegal.

[joba606]

We are at war with an enemy that deliberately targeted and slaughtered thousands of our civilians - in an hour and a half.

Our enemy when captured does not automatically volunteer everything he knows that could help us out of the goodness of his heart.

Interrogations are necessary, as it happens every day in every police station in the world.

The difference is that when you don't get the answer from these savages, thousands of innocent people may die.

[joba606]

The success of the 9/11 attacks has recruited more terrorists than any other reason you could name.

Normally leftists would never have anything to do with Islamic supremacists, who regularly beat their wives and daughters, strangle them in honor killings, execute gays and lesbians, etc.

But because they hate America and Israel, leftists find them to be kindred.

That's why you and other leftists defend their rights, in spite of their homicidal tendencies.

Madness. And suicidal.

[jamesfehon]

What evidence of recruitment correllating to anything do you have? I've stated that it's being used in recruiting this has been reported and isn't an unfounded claim.

I'm not motivated by hatred: who ever said I hate the united states or Israel?

I'll defend everyone person's right to be tortured. There's this concept of justice, another of human rights. You should go read about them.

Chuck in the bill of rights & the supreme court ruling on the legal status of detainees at Guantanamo too

[joba606]

'I'll defend everyone person's right to be tortured.'

You NAZI !! I only defend terrorists' rights to be tortured.

I'll just assume that was a typo.

You talk about 'justice' and 'human rights'.

The people who were forced to choose between leaping from the top of the two tallest buildings on the East Coast to their deaths, or being burned alive, had rights.

Now...did they get justice?

Do you think the victims of that horrible day would want others to die that way?

Or not?

[jamesfehon]

I hope the most of them would not. Justice and retribution are not the same. That you seem to include retribution as an element in justifying torture is a little scary.

Life in prison after a jury trial, by all means. Suspending the law of the United States, ignoring the Bill of Rights. They go beyond any form of justice I know, so far beyond that the line of what the US was fighting for and what it was under that administration seem uncomfortably blurred.

[jamesfehon]

"Them" being people who died in the WTC.

I hope and believe they wouldn't want anyone else to endure that suffering or anything comparable.

[joba606]

'Life in prison after a jury trial, by all means.'

Well, that's all wonderful and good...AFTER the terrorists have committed their attacks and killed thousands...God forbid millions someday.

I prefer something more proactive - like finding them wherever they're hiding in the world...and then killing them. Before they annihilate us.

Terrorists around the world should ALWAYS be running for their lives, instead of plotting attacks.

[joba606]

Which brings me to an interesting point.

What is Zaccarias Moussaoui had been forced to talk...with either waterboarding or stress positions?

Did you ever think of what your last 8 years would've looked like if that happened?

No 9/11. 3,000 lives saved.

Which also means...

No War in Afghanistan. No Patriot Act. No domestic wiretapping.

NO IRAQ WAR, along with all the U.S. military and Iraqi civilian deaths and all the destruction.

NOW how immoral is waterboarding?

[Marcusartists]

"If Moussaoui had been forced to talk, 9/11 wouldn't have happened"

A 9-11 type event was inevitable regardless of who was/is tortured or not. You should read up on the subject of blowback. And as far as your comments concerning Gitmo-- many of those detainees are innocent.

I've heard Bush and some of "his people" saying that "the US does not torture people".. well, yes, we do. Torture does not work. You've cited a few examples of people who say it does. Many more know it doesn't.

[joba606]

'Blowback' is more anti-Semitic nonsense theory.

It's a diversion from discussing the psychotic teachings and cultural madness of Islamic supremacism.

[Marcusartists]

"Only 3 high-value terrorist leaders - including Khalid Sheik Mohammed - have been waterboarded."

That's a pretty picture you've painted, but not very realistic. Look at the Abu Grahib photos, look at all the secret CIA prisons, look at Gitmo-- we've tortured a lot more people than 3. Only if they refuse to talk? Nah, we've done some pretty horrible stuff to a lot of people, and just because it isn't "as bad" as some of the stuff they've done, doesn't mean its ok for us to do it.

[joba606]

And your hard evidence that we've done "some pretty horrible stuff to a lot of people" is what, exactly?

More paranoia.

[Marcusartists]

I'd say bombing the capital of a country that never posed a threat to the US was pretty horrible. I think Hiroshima/Nagasaki was bad. I think removing leaders from countries and replacing them with puppets is bad, and I think it is activities like those that cause people to hate us more than the fact that they are simply "psychotic". You don't see many terrorists attacking Canada, do you? Well, Canada doesn't make a habit of messing with people; they don't have troops in over 120 countries.

[joba606]

You are engaging in magical thinking.

Do you actually believe that if Imperial Japan had gotten the bomb first they wouldn't have nuked Washington DC or New York?

After Pearl Harbor? The Bataan death march? The rape of Nanking?

You need to re-think that.

We have bases all over the world because for 50 years we were fighting the expansion of the greatest threat to the human race that ever existed - the Soviet Union - responsible for 100 million deaths worldwide.

[FearTitan]

Who says torture works? there is no other method that I would approve. Because the only thing that works about torture is that the person will "talk", mostly false information.

[Marcusartists]

The question is whether or not it is torture. A simple test is to imagine seeing videos/reading reports of AMERICAN troops undergoing waterboarding-- Americans would cry "torture!" So, there you have it. It is torture. No amount of torture is going to prevent a 9-11. If somebody wants to blow up a building in the US, they'll do it. Our borders are wide open; anyone can come in. 9-11 was not an invasion. Those guys lived here for years and used our own planes against us.

[joba606]

Real torture is not something any sane person would volunteer to do.

Christopher Hitchens and other journalists have volunteered to undergo waterboarding, along with our Marines and Special Forces.

No-one would volunteer to have their fingernails pulled out with pliers, have their feet burned, or have a Black and Decker drill put through their kneecaps, as the IRA have done to their prisoners.

Waterboarding is a brutal interrogation tactic - no doubt.

But not torture.

[jamesfehon]

I think Marcusartists test here stands.

The detainee's being subjected to this form of psychological torture are being made to think they're being drowned. When it's not only an interrogation technique but a component of the systematic abuse encouraged by the previous administration, it's really ridiculously indefensible.

It IS brutal & with the exception of training or a demonstration (both in which you're fully aware of the limitations and safety precautions in place) it's a form of torture

[sugarpuddin88]

History & Science prove the only legitimate information does not come from torture; In fact, an al Qaeda member confessed to al-Qaeda's Deputy Operations Chief Ayman al-Zawahiri location specifically because his captors were decent & fair

Moreover, heads of DOD make case people joined against America simply because of their indecent atrocities at Gitmo; and, that just as many Americans have died as a direct result of those atrocities at Gitmo as have died in the WTC towers!

[joba606]

It IS defensible.

In the documents just released, they showed that Khalid Sheik Mohammed revealed only AFTER waterboarding that another hijacking plot to destroy the Library Tower in L.A., the tallest building on the West Coast, was in effect.

That plot was foiled.

Waterboarding WORKED...

AND...

IT SAVED LIVES!!!

[jamesfehon]

We know the plot was foiled earlier than the use of waterboarding was 'sanctioned' with the arrest of a key actor. Torture is an unreliable (and unacceptable) technique.

The fact that it has reportedly been used 180 times on one person also draws questions to its effectiveness.

The Library Tower example is a farce, and incredibly flimsy in the least. US intelligence agencies have much more effective techniques which led to the arrest of the key organiser of this planned attack.

[joba606]

I tell you that the Library Tower terrorist plot to copycat 9/11 on the West Coast and slaughter thousands of innocent people was foiled by waterboarding KSM, according to the latest released CIA intel reports...and you call that 'flimsy'?

Too bad.

For a minute, I was thinking you had an intelligent argument going.

[SumnerMurrayRedstone]

@joba606 Documentation. 10 Downing just dismissed Bush as 'full of it' for his claims it saved UK targets. Besides: we're supposed to be the Good Guys. We're supposed to do things differently. Wear white hats. Fight cleanly. Probably ethics lost on scum like you.

[joba606]

@SumnerMurrayRedstone And leftist idiots like yourself would probably let terrorists kill thousands or millions of innocent people first before finding and killing them - because that would only be fair to these disgusting cutthroats.

[Azar7319]

@SumnerMurrayRedstone kill them all !!! your a fuckin cry baby i would spit in your face if i had the chance! we don't give a fuck what 10 downing street says. at least george bush knows who our enemies are ! summermurrayredstone your a cunt!!! so fuck off and die!!!