4 Month Air-Force UFO Investigation - Brazil 1977. Pt5 of 9

[wrich1162]

You could use a large mirror to deflect the light back at the chupa?!

[WowDisclosure]

sacha4you Nut Ball Loony is still here. Hahaha.

sacha4you will need a visit from the MEN IN WHITE COATS.

[dahur]

"Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance"

Albert Einstein

[lllwindrunner]

Just key in "Live Science opening Nasa's x files" for more info.

"I know other astronauts share my feelings.... And we know the government is sitting on hard evidence of UFOs".

~ Col. Gordon Cooper, (January 14, 1997)

[lllwindrunner]

#3 No one can logically assume that everything a government hides from us is for our own good. Nixon and Bush Jr. taught us that among others. Laws were being ignored and this Kecksberg case shows an attempt to ignore law. The judges ruling is solid. "The fact is history shows that lies and misrepresentation, propaganda, deception has only led nations, empires and monarchs into deep deep trouble. The truth is the only way to go. When you go that way you get the best results." ~Stephen Bassett

[lllwindrunner]

#2 Nasa first tried to pass off files that were not responsive to the judges request but the judge called them out on that. Now some say it's possible this retrieved object could be a Russian device but in either case, NASA's actions were to try to cover up it's involvement with this UFO and it also smacks of cover up that this major court case has not been covered in a big way be our mainstream news media.

[lllwindrunner]

#1 It's interesting that in 2008 a lawsuit was finally won against NASA by reporter Leslie Kean in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. The case was about NASA resisting the laws of the freedom of information act. Judge Emmet Sullivan cited overwhelming evidence that NASA had UFO documents and was *ordered* by the court to hand over Kecksberg PA. UFO Files. Nasa had to be forced by a court to turn over files which are now being examined by Attorneys.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, ROFL! If something extraordinary were in these Kecksburg files, we heard about. Maybe you'd be surprised, but we have 2009. And the files in question were handed over in 2008. NASA always stated, they never investigate UFOs by their own. In some cases, when e.g. Soviet satellites crashed, they assisted the military. That's all. And Leslie Kean payed horrendous amounts to her lawyers for a pile of useless documents, NASA had difficulties to even locate parts of it.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Then don't worry about it and let the lawyers look at what's been handed over. Leslie was on a radio show only a couple of months ago saying it will take time to get through them because there are tons of papers. BTW..I notice how you ROFL! or LOL! when you're in a corner.

[kor314]

lol then join in the debate agin m8 :) sacha is getting a lot of countering lately, and to be honest it has a certain entertainment value to see this guy getting his virtual ass wooped all over YT.. he is trying to keep himself standing but basicly is loosing every shred of credibility he might have had in days long gone haha

[sacha4you]

kor314, you expell wishful thinking. Rather your beloved exo-ufoistic conspiracytainment industry is currently under heavy pressure (p>1GPa) , since they have no fresh stuff; so they start to recycle ancient stories. (Mistaken earthly crafts and sky-lanterns are excluded of course)

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

"The negative claims of pseudo-skeptics who offer facile explanations must themselves be subject to criticism. If a competent witness reports having seen something tens of degrees of arc in size (as happens) and the scoffer, who of course was not there -- offers Venus or a high altitude weather balloon as an explanation, the requirement of extraordinary proof for an extraordinary claim falls on the proffered negative claim as well."

~ Bernard Haisch, Astrophysicist.

[lllwindrunner]

It is logical to understand after studying this matter that not all UFO's can be passed of as government projects or natural phenomena.

[lllwindrunner]

In 1968 a B 52 bomber was diverted from it's flight path to circle around the missile base in Minot North Dakota. Military personal on the ground and crew of the B 52 reported seeing a very large heavy looking metallic object a few hundred feet long hovering low in the air in dead silence by the base. Captured clearly on radar and viewed from below by people on the ground and from above by the flight crew, the blue book committee report concluded they were all seeing illusions due to stars. LOL!

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, it doesn't matter what people claim to have seen, or whatever exo-ufoistic conspiracy writer plant on military personnel. If somebody claims, he saw an alien spaceship, the burden of proof is on him to show in an unambigous manner, it was i) an alien ii) spaceship. If you were eligible for that knowledge, I could show you very nice experiments with moderated and deflected proton beams, you wouldn't trust your eyes. Proton-beam plasma is conductive, so it gives Radar returns. ;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Military pilots, airline pilots and radar specialists didnt report alien spaceships but unidentified things- AKA UFO's. They require unblocked investigations to get the questions resolved. The burden is on government to allow *real* investigation. Meanwhile, I can continue to use you as the catalyst to trigger the good quotes and information that I post for the benefit of others.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, nope. The burden of investigations isn't on govts, since no govt on this planet has any obligation to the general public to provide new knowledge. That's on people themselves and science. The reason, public funding for SETI was stopped and even NASA has to fight with budget problems. As far as defence- and (inter)national security is effected, secrecy is justified. The truth is, people are too stupid to discover something. MUFON is a private org and provided no results. ;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- You fail to understand that my interest along with many other people is in the mysterious 5% of UFO sightings that you know cant be explained as military craft, science experiments, or natural phenomena. Even if you really were a secret government geek that knows how to play with "proton-beam plasma", etc., I would not be overly impressed. A good hearted humble person who can only build kites would still be a more impressive person to be around than a government narcissist.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, I've never claimed something about my security status, since such a statement would violate the law. A UFO remains a UFO unless sufficient data is available.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- Oh I know. As far as that, I doubt you even have a "security status" and you lack tangible proof of credibilty for many of your claims. I probably taught you what the term UFO means for as many times as I've had to remind you. You keep using the tactics of Boolean Syndrome, Complex Question, Falsified Inductive Generalization, Spurious Superficiality, and Argument by Uninformed Opinion in so many of your replies. I now list those terms now for the benifit of others to have or look up.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, you turn somehow the table. *YOU* are the guy who base his obvious miseducation on beliefs, opinions, claims and widespread superstition instead of facts. So you are still kindly invited to present an accessible, verifyable and unambigous proof ET-visitation took ever place in our solar system. Once again: The term 'credibility of a person' has been introduced into exo-ufotainment to fabricate apparent authority. In science, a proof is never bound to a person.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha, you make cult claims with no proof. You say: Simple logic tells us, a govt shouldn't participate in such a bizarre and surrealistic circus; except when it's useful and helps to reduce security expenses News Flash- Real cults such as the FLDS that rape their own kids have never been shut down and they do not reduce security expenses for our government. Besides that, when a world is blocked from UFO information and knows a cover-up is real, it's called an awareness, not a cult.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, obviously, there is a misunderstanding: People in western countries enjoy freedom of speech and religious freedom. No matter, if they join even a cult. So govts don't care about cults, unless laws are broken. Some UFO sightings have a military background. E.g. in the B-2 case, it's a historical fact, Richard Doty, a AFOSI-agent spread bogus documents [MJ-12] among ufologists to absorb their investigative power. That reduced security expenses heavily. That I meant 'useful'.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- Now you say: "People in western countries enjoy freedom of speech and religious freedom. No matter, if they join even a cult. So govts don't care about cults, unless laws are broken."

Oh really? So since 80% of Americans think there's a UFO cover-up, does this mean you're finally done now with bitching about how they all belong to a giant cult and that Obama must shut them down?

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, read the 2nd part of my post. To answer your question: Yes, president Obama asked many TV-stations to not heat the UFO-debate. So History Channel shut down UFO-hunters within a couple of days, Discovery Channel ceased the MUFON-UFO-show and even CNN stopped their coverage in the LKL-show. (The last episode dealt about beliefs in ET life)

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- In regard to all these claims your making about UFO shows being ended. You're lieing again. I watched the history channel playing back to back episodes of the UFO hunters just last week. That show ran a successful 2 seasons and the re-runs are now be played even more often. More air time than ever. CNN has not ceased it's LKL live UFO reports and I'm sure more will be ahead. Your just upset that James Foxe's UFO show "I know what I saw" is still going to air on the history channel.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, re-runs of past shows are not that things, that fuel UFO-crazyness. Unfounded conspiracy-claims and permenent new 'revelations' are, what creates distrust. Once again: In US president Obama haven't forbidden TV-stations to cover the topic. He simply asked them for more reluctance. Riots or skandals are not that thing, US needed in the time of the financial crisis. There was one single CNN/LKL-show since the past March. And if Fox's production will be aired is open at time. ;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- lol..Yes James Foxe's show will be aired as well...feel better now or do you need more quotes to relax with?

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- Look...Don't worry your little head over CNN LKL reports on UFOs being slightly slowed down this year due to the deaths of *Michael Jackson, *Walter Cronkite and *Ted Kennedy. In this country, we just happen to honor well-known famous people like that and tend to put news of that nature on the top shelf for a while when it happens. Is that ok with you?

[kor314]

lol i believe we had this discussion already sacha... you sai LKL show was terminated, which was proven a lie.. you said no one was going to air Fox's show yet on LKL (which wasn't as terminated as you tried to make us believe) he anounced the channel and when it will be aired, showing us how you just fabricate lies and present them as facts... remember??

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- I think that *WE ALL* turned the tables on you and you are now not invited to keep using Boolean Syndrome, Complex Question, Falsified Inductive Generalization, Spurious Superficiality, and Argument by Uninformed Opinion in so many of your replies.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, there are many mentally healthy people on YT, who haven't acquired factual immunity. Some of them are friends of mine. So I woulnd't afford airs and graces to call people uninformed or uninvited. Since *YOU* advocate ET visitations, the burden of (one single) positive proof is on your shoulders. And extraordinary claims require extraordinary (and unambigous) proofs. To trust in loads of claims, opionions and rumors is a rather uneducated behaviour.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- Wrong again. I've only claimed there is a UFO cover-up and that's been a proven fact even in a court of law. Remember- NASA lost it's court case trying to resist turning over some UFO files. When investigations are faked like Project Bluebook or blocked such as they have been, no one can know what else might be around or even what UFO evidence may be hidden from view. So I have made no extraodinary claims. You do that and have no credibilty to show for yourself as you continue to lie.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, obviously *YOU* are misinformed: No such thing like a 'UFO cover-up' exists. Please take five minutes to visit the websites of CIA and NSA to see, most UFO files are already in the public domain. FOIA exempts such cases however, when (inter)national security- or defence implications are present. This is a legal and legitimate behaviour. Correct is, during the cold war era, additional info-war implications were present. So US govt couldn't misinform Soviet govt without affecting...

[lllwindrunner]

When airline pilots went to the FAA telling the FAA that they all saw a solid metallic looking object hanging over Chicago O Hare on 11-7-2006, the FAA claimed pilots only saw funny weather but yet the object was reported by pilots to punch a hole through clouds as it left the atmosphere at a high rate of speed. O Hare officials claimed no one talked about a UFO that day. Later, FOIA request where served to get tower recordings and revealed the lie.

[lllwindrunner]

For the story on the Chicago O'hare UFO just go to Wikipedia and key in: "2006 O'Hare International Airport UFO sighting" The Chicago Tribune investigated the report and it's reporters filed the "freedom of information act" request and obtained the flight tower recordings. Full investigation has been denied. "It doesn't matter if your a skeptic or a believer. If you've got something unidentified operating in the controlled restricted air space then its an air safety issue." Nick Pope

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, in my opinion, FAA did the mistake to lie. They could have rely on FOIA, that exempts issues of national security (according to National Security Act 1947) , since an unknown object over a major airport can be classified as matter of national (airspace) security. In the case of NASA however, the Kecksburg-files got lost. If something secret were on it, NASA could have declared it.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- In regard to the NASA court case, the Kecksburg files where not lost and have been handed over to Leslie Keans attorneys for examination. I'll post all the NASA court info again since you want to cover it up. Thanks for being the catalyst again.

[kor314]

the key word here is "most"... most means "not all", which in it's turn means ther all still vital pieces of information which are beeing held back.. this suggests there is indeed a cover-up going on .. and security and defence implications is a very convenient label to use as an excuse to justify for hiding stuff and lieing to the ppl, since they cannot check it after said label is slapped on to something

;-))

[sacha4you]

(ff 2) ... their own people. So you have never seen a whitehaired USAF Col since 1990, who desperately tries to explain away a UFO as swamp gas in front of a TV news cam. Correct is, there *ARE* concerns regarding the ongoing UFO-crazyness in many nations. To not heat the debate unneccesserly, these govts try keep the topic on a low profile. Humanity in its wholeness is far not ready for a sensible approach to unknown things; or even dangerous technologies. Maybe in a couple of centuries. ;-))

[lllwindrunner]

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes."

~ Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, LOL! Copy pasting prefabricated unrelated quotes is obviously your final answer, whenever you are forced into the corner.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sach4you- You say you want more quotes from credible people that are more qualified than you. Well ok, sure-

The least improbable explanation is that these things are artificial and controlled ... My opinion for some time has been that they have an extraterrestrial origin."

~ Dr. Maurice Biot (leading aerodynamicists and mathematical physicist)

[kor314]

lol isee only one person here who is cornered.. you cannot beat real qoutes sacha.. time and time again you say only ppl in certain position may have a certain degree of knowledge.. and when you are given qoutes from such ppl you try to LOL/ROFL in a comment to save your face.. and try to make us think they are prefabricated.. but fact is you got served on your own terms and can't counter that properly

;-))

[kor314]

lol you contradict youself again.. qoute: I wouldn't afford airs and graces to call ppl uninformed. you do nothing but call ppl uninformed and/or uneducated.. so you are lieing in an attempt to safe your face once again... lol

;-))

[kor314]

lol you are the guy who spreads lies in an attemp to fool ppl into believing them as truth.. we have already caught you redhanded on doing so in the past.. so i guess: a thruth is never bound to a sacha... rofl

;-))

[kor314]

in that case you have broken the law several times because you have one more than one occasion tried to make us believe you are in such a position. and befor you answer with the lame "i've never claimed" answer.. we know you did because we've seen and read the posts in which you did.. reminder: repeating a lie over and over does not turn it into a truth my friend

;-))

[WinduChi6]

@Sacha:

[The reason, public funding for SETI was stopped and even NASA has to fight with budget problems.]

There you go with that SETI bullshit again, as anyone with a good quality IQ.

SETI isn't looking for SHIT

Stop posting this bullshit Sacha you are making a fool out of yourself

NASA is a joke good that they have budget problems they're finish anyway, good riddance to those lying assholes

That's ridiculous no the ones who are dumb asses is the gullible UFO skeptics who infest the Earth

[sacha4you]

WinduChi6, public funding has been ceased due to the fore mentioned considerations. Today, SETI is 100% financed by private investors, who try to find signs of distant civilisations by RF signals. NASA is experiencing the same harsh fate, since expensive public space programs aren't required today. So public space exploration will fade away from the public radar over time; particularly, as licences are denied to private space carriers to go into LEO (450km) or above on their own.

;-))

[WinduChi6]

@sacha4you:

You must haven't gotten the memo, I don't buy this bullshit that you continue to shit on a daily bases in your posts; SETI ISN'T LOOKING FOR SHIT, you need to read that memo that was sent out, because you still fail to get the message.

Harsh fate my ass, NASA is just a public relations front.

That continue to LIE everyday to the all of humanity.

[sacha4you]

WinduChi6, I don't know what memo you've mentioned. SETI is privately operated and scans systematically microwave frequencies for narrow-band signals with high entropy. They release all data into the public domain. Please take a look on their website. Correct is, NASA isn't longer important as it was, since AFSC/USN took over all non-public DoD activities. However I think, they will continue with probe based low-budget planetary exploration and space-telescope astronomy. How shall they lie? ;-))

[lllwindrunner]

In1953 President Truman ordered the CIA to make recommendations to the air force on how to handle UFOs. The CIA then convened a panel headed by Physicist HP Roberts. The Roberts panel said - *We must do something to remove the aura of mystery from the UFO phenomena so that people no longer take them seriously and don't bother to report them. Media coverage must be suppressed. Methods are #1. Ridicule.* Bluebook was then task with the mission of debunking UFOs and anyone that reports a UFO.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, the Robertson Regulations 1953 are still in effect, but instead of riducule, today the policy is silence. Remember, Americans need that, otherwise they drove mad or even committed mass-suicides [Heavens-Gate incident]; particularly, since they can't handle the unknown.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

And either way the Robertson regulations show us all that Project Bluebook was a fake UFO investigation. Now that you understand that, it would also be wise for you study the english language as well as to take some classes in U.S. history for several reasons. I'll list 2 for now to help you get started:

1 Youre not understanding or using the word remember correctly.

2 The Heavens Gate cult had nothing to do with the incorrect reasons and conclusions you gave.

Don't be laughed at... Study.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, under Hynek, Project Bluebook delivered serious results. It was ended in 1969 with the final statement no new knowledge could be gained. This conclusion holds until today, like 40 years of MUFONs continuation clearly reveal. Further, dozens of nations released their entire archives of UFO-files into the public domain and not one alien was exhumed. Fact is, (religious) exo-ufoistic crazyness is so widespread, any serious scientific approach is inhibited for centuries.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- Project Bluebook was not able to deliver serious results and has long since admitted to be a propaganda tactic and bogus UFO investigation by its very own key investigators. That's the real fact as now history reveals for all to research and verify. It's too late for you to try to keep Bluebook propaganda going now.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, you make rather bold claims about Project Bluebook. So you are kindly invited to show us, what exactly is 'bogus'. Within it's realms, nobody have found any frauds. Incompletness is a property, must studies have to fight with. It was not even a secret, incidents with defence significance were NOT part of BB. If something were on your claim, MUFON, the private successor would have presented loads of ETs. No such thing happened yet.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- People (including the ones that have just written me) have looked into Project Blue Book history and have verified for themselves that it was in fact bogus so no ones takes it seriously or the unrelated arguments that you invent to side step with. People are reporting UFOs, not aliens and UFOs are simply not being investigated properly and openly, aliens or not. We know there is a UFO (and possible alien) Cover-up. That also means possible covering up of evidence of anything related.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, I think, slowly we make some progress. It's already unusual in ufoistic circles, people consider a differentiation between UFOs and (alleged) alien spaceships. E.g. military aviation is well known to produce many UFO-sightings. 10'000s of people sweared to God, they saw an 'alien spaceship', when they had a close encounter with a B-2 before its declassification. So you can't expect, such sightings will be disclosed by a govt. Private investigators couldn't do it better.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

"I know that there is a real need to break through the official Washington brush-off and get the truth home to the people. There seems to be a great fear among the powers that be that the American people will panic if told the truth. How little they know and understand their countrymen. I feel that millions of our people already believe in the reality of the UFO's."

~ Admiral M Herbert B Knowles, US Navy

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- The FLDS is a polygamist religious cult here in the USA that rapes it's own children yet won a giant child custody battle in court. No president has ever shut them down and they continue to thrive. The Strong City cult in New Mexico is another religious cult that does the same thing. The David Korish cult mass suicides and the Jim Jones cult mass suicides were not UFO related. Cults are always around and UFO interest is no more to blame than bubble gum is. It's about other things.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, in America, there are millions of insane people, who expect free-energy, health-care, the mind-enlighting golden probe, salvation, doom, or whatever else from alleged ETs. So the exo-ufoistic hope-cult became an emotionally loaded mass-movement, enriched with conspiracy- and SF-fantasies. Simple logic tells us, a govt shouldn't participate in such a bizarre and surrealistic circus; except when it's useful and helps to reduce security expenses. The B-2 is a vivid example. ;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- False...Cults exist because mental illness exists. That's simple logic. There is no tangible evidence for what you are claiming here as being a constant definitive connection for creating or being in a cult. All the side topics that you've miss-applied are simply falsified arguments and off the point about cults.

[kor314]

so basicly you state that because a few ppl in an incident which happened ages ago decided to kill themself.. all americans have a disorder which makes them want to commit mass-suicide for any particular reason.. what a load of crap..lol

;-))

[WinduChi6]

You're LYING THOUGH YOUR FUCKING TEETH, for NASA, and these LIEs that you blatantly tell, are more counts of treason aganist your entire species.

You can't fool me with this nonsense Sacha, I warned you before to stop comming to me with this bullshit, because I don't have a taste for the shit you serve. ;-)

Anybody with a physics education will conclude that because of the strong evidence of the complicated motions on: STS-48 STS 75, STS-8 mission videos and others.That these objects are UFOs!

[sacha4you]

WinduChi6, nope again. Space-shuttle's RCS (Reaction Control System) works with hydrazine-thrusters. So water-ice condenses on the nozzles. The particles break lose and fly with the shuttle. Whenever a thruster is operated in a 90°-angle to the flight direction, such particles are deflected by the exhaust gas according to Newton's Lex I too, so these particle appears to an observer to make instantanious 90°-turns under intelligent control. Yes, RCS *IS* under intelligent control, BTW. ;-))

[WinduChi6]

@Sacha:

THESE ARE ALL FUCKING LIES, Sacha.

And I'm sick of your LIES for NASA.

You're using nonsense to make these LIES believable to fools, because only fools will believe your nonsense, that's filled with bullshit.

Now I'm really piss off ! :mad:

[sacha4you]

WinduChi6, I don't lie for NASA. The agency is neither my employer, nor I have religious feelings for them. I'm simply concerned about widespread misbeliefs and how fast people turn off their Bravo-Sierra-detectors, whenever the shocking-secret conspiracy word is spread. Remember, about real things, people have not even a dim idea they exist. Due to security- and defence implications, a premature disclosure is not negociable. BTW, I'm NOT a decision maker. I help only to save your taxes.

;-))

[WinduChi6]

@Sacha:

You are LYING for those pricks, nothing NASA say can be trusted, & there is no way in hell you are going to convince me with your nonsensical explanations, your efforts are futile.

You will fail, get that though your head.

I'm hell-bent on crushing your anti-disclosure efforts, I will ensure that "premature disclosure" as you call it, happen, mark my words. ;-)

[sacha4you]

WinduChi6, LOL! If you decided to live long enough, you may get something substantial from to ongoing disclosure process. Otherwise, I'd suggest, you prepared for 2047: The 100th anniversary of Roswell's Mogul crash-flight #4. However, I'd book early. I guess, Roswell NM will be overcrowded.

;-))

[WinduChi6]

@Sacha:

Fuck 2047! No what's laughable, is your pathetic nonsensical explanations for NASA's LIES.

Your pathetic attempt to debunk other UFO cases that have strong damning evidence of the ET presence, & your debunking with more nonsensical explanations.

That's what deserve a LOL. ;-)

As with every other efforts of your debunking, the Mogul explanation is a LIE.

You never learn Shol'va, I'm not going to be fooled with these LIES, you tell and get from the nonsense infested UFO skeptics. lol

[sacha4you]

WinduChi6, I don't think it does really matter if alleged ETs visited us or not. Remember, humanity in it's wholeness is centuries away from being ready for an open relationsship. Either things like in District 9 would happen, or they were worshipped as gods. If alleged ETs had an other opionion, they showed up in an unambigous manner. Since no such thing have happened yet, something is wrong with expectations of ordinary people. So I'd bet more than a beer, all will be the same in 2047.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

One way to spot a UFO shill on Youtube ~

We often notice one of the tactics of a shill is to slander the credibility of professionals that have public records of outstanding work (who happen to have reported UFO's) while the shill himself offers no credibility or tangible proof for who he is or what he claims to do or be privy to.

A shill can make claims of working in government secrecy as an excuse to hide behind as he lacks credibility and tangible proof for himself and many of his claims.

[kor314]

lol.. sacha miust be a psychic or clearvoyant (or something of that sort) if he can determin (without hard proof or tangible evidence) just by reading a few post wether some-one is poorly educated.. he probably looks into his crytal scrying ball and sees the the educational records of a person

;-))

[sacha4you]

kor314, if sombody writes, something would 'beat the laws of physics' then I need no one word more to recognize, the writer has no idea about physics.

(BTW, nobody can beat natural laws, since these are existent and found by intelligent beings (yes some humans are intelligent) - and not legislated like legal laws.

;-))

[uforesearchman]

chek out the comment page sacha4you cannot debunk the evidece ive provided see all my comments! from uforesearchman..theres tons of documents reports my generals on the matter, i mean its all there!

[sacha4you]

uforesearchman, what's about visiting a doc to let deprogram yourself? Obviously, you consumed so much exo-ufoistic conspiracy crap, you believe you were educated, but in fact you acquired factual immunity and got a terrible miseducation. Walking into a mental hospital would be a small step for you, but a huge leap for humanity.

This advice is meant seriously.

;-))

[kor314]

aha.. here goes the insult tactic again..

;-))

[sacha4you]

'THE UFO CURSE:

No matter how long you live, you will never know any more about UFOs than you know today. You will never know any more about what UFOs really are, or where they come from. You will never know any more about what the U.S. Government really knows about UFOs than you know today. As you lie on your own death-bed you will be as mystified about UFOs as you are today. And you will remember this curse.' ~ Philip Klass, 1983.

;-))

[uforesearchman]

funny you believe in curses, but wen it comes to the matter ufo's its crazy! i have proven that there are objects moving in our skies that defy our known laws of physics, rather man made or of different origin! there are to many officials that have made statements that can only mean one thing, our goverment has been lying ....we have : Canadian memorandum 1950, Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter, Astronaut Scott Carpenter, and katherine colman, corso, nathan twining, dr. leer, uk mod files and more

[sacha4you]

uforesearchman, there a loads of opinons, speculations misinterpretations - and lies [e.g. Corso] . Believe ist or not, but your beloved exo-ufoistic conspiracytainment industry is, who prevent with teeth and nails every serious scientifc approach. Otherwise they saw confronted themselves with the inconvenient truth, Allen Hynak found already in 1969: At least 99.4% of all sightings can be well explained upon sufficient data. And never underestimate physics. We know more people think.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

uforsearchman- Sacha4you is very incomplete on Alan Hyneck as well. Hyneck ended up renouncing the UFO conclusions of the air force and realized that he had only been part of a propaganda campaign to debunk UFOs instead of an investigation. According to Hyneck the air force could easily dismiss cases made by civilians but when it was a report from their own people, it was harder to debunk them and even said "there were all kinds of military reports of UFOs that were kept out of the newspapers."

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, you parrot exo-ufoistic mainstream misbeliefs: Since Hynak didn't have a security clearance and a need to know, he was fully aware, not all cases (particularly the former top secret cold-war crafts) ended up on his desk. As a physicist, he knew how to enroll a methodologically correct investigation. So he handpicked all excellently documented cases to avoid the saw-lights-in-the-sky-but-don'­t-remember-the-color-time-loca­tion-nonsense. From these cases 0.6% were inexplicable. ;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- You initially cited the corrupt Project Bluebook investigation as if it was a legitimate study. Remember- Project Bluebook was presented to the USA public as a real investigation when it wasn't and admittted later to be lies by it's key people. Now you try to call it a cold war tactic yet we all know major UFO reports go well before and beyond the cold war. Along with your security clearance *theories and claims, you have no hard tangible evidence that you're a credible source at all.

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, Project Bluebook is still a legitimate study, although it is incomplete in parts due to the fore mentioned reasons. Since the statistical result isn't effected significantly, because Hynak conducted his investigations in a serious manner, your term 'corrupt' is simply wrong. Only mutilated cattle, conspiracy enthusiasts and godemichet wearing exo-ufoistic crazies deny the historical fact, many top secret cold-war projects like the U-2, SR-71, B-2, etc. existed.

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

Sacha4you- Alans last name is "Hyneck" not Hynak and Project Bluebook was in fact never a legitmate study of UFOs as the historical facts are well documented for all to see. Major Robert J. Friend, who headed up Project Bluebook from 1958 onward, has publicly stated that Bluebook was never even adequately founded to study UFOs but was instead on a mission to "re educate" the public about *what it wanted to say UFOs were*. Like Alan Hyneck, he stated this on camera to reporters as well.

[uforesearchman]

not to mention the study by the university of colorado and its 12 man panel of scientist that came to the conclusion that there were objects defying our known laws of physics! this eventually led to the absurd condon report! the military never let hyneck study any reports of ufo's over nuclear bases or any other account by the miltary pilots, and radar towers! sach4you has no evidence to prove any of his claims...nasa has hid the truth for years! its a fact!

[sacha4you]

lllwindrunner, according to Wikipedia, Hynek is the correct spelling of the guy's name. Despite Project Bluebook was intended to calm down the exo-ufoistic hystery, Hynek was not really impressed about USAF's policies and did a good job. Remember MUFON took over after the close down of the project. Although investigations are completly in private hands since then, no new knowledge have been gained - and won't be for the next centuries.

;-))

[sacha4you]

Military cover-ups work only, because people are too stupid to grab themselves hard scientific data from UAP sightings. If it were true, that Brasil military was only 'armed' with cameras and not even considered other physical values, then they could hardly resolve the case. The unability to explain something is the best ground for secrecy. I guess, it will take us a couple of centuries, until people will become aware of the fact, UFO imagery has zero scientific value.

;-))

[lobodevagoverdad]

You -> cunt.

[sacha4you]

lobodevagoverdad, objectivity and conclusiveness of your argumentation chain is overwhelming. It was a pleasure to discuss with you.

;-))

[uforesearchman]

have you heard phiilip corso, admiral inman, steven greer, and stanton friedman? check these guys out you will get some evidence...check out grahm hancock jessie martell zacharia sitchin thers alot of evidence..pilot radar governors, cia agents and many more whistle blowers out there!

[sacha4you]

uforesearchman, you gave me a list of the most famous members of our exo-ufoistic conspiracytainment industry. Common to all these guys is, they are rich in (empty) words and rhetorics and base their conclusions either on assumptions, rumors or lies. No such thing like a real whistleblower exist. Correct is however there are UFO-sightings. UFO means unidentifiyed flying object, an observer can't indentify due to lack of sufficient data. Speculation without a tangible proof is nonsense.

;-))

[uforesearchman]

sacha4you, there are objects moving around in USA airspace that brake all laws of physics! we can prove this through hundreds of radar recorded sightings, and not to mention the pilot sightings by trained pilots, and wat about the nuclear base sightings in the 80s? UFO does mean unidentified but pilots are trained to recognize most standard aircraft, and there are some whistle blowers such as corso, inman, and 100s of other HIGH ranking officials in the discloser project...

[sacha4you]

uforesearchman, if you or other poorly educated people can not understand the laws of physics does not mean they were broken. Corso is fairy tale teller. Greer's Disclosure-show is nothing more than exo-ufoistic conspiracytainment, where self-proclaimed high ranking officials utter hairrising nonsense - all statements are made without proof, of course.

;-))

[uforesearchman]

i dont believe for a second that u have researched this topic to the extent that u need to in order to find evidence! you might have heard of these people but u havent researched them! u make it seam like even if obama said there were ufo's u still would say it wasnt true it was speculation! i mean wat kind of evidence do u want? a body on ur door step? u are a close minded negativeist..the ffa has admitted to these objects so have some nasa officials..we dont have the purpulsion tech required

[sacha4you]

uforesearchman, ordinary people believe, when they have had consumed loads of shocking-secret fairy-tales from exo-ufoistic conspiracytainment sites, they became educated. In fact they become brain-wash and miseducated. Claims and speculation have as much to do with a proof like a UFO with an (alleged) alien. Normally nothing. A proof is accessible, verifyable, repeatable and unambigous - and never bound to a person, his apparent credibility or opinion.

;-))

[uforesearchman]

i dont get my info like that my info is from documents provided under the freedom of information act! the goverment says its not interested in ufo's but i urge you to go do ur research and u will find out that that is a lie! see the condon report..check out doctor j. allen hynick and his conclusion..see the early military manuels that talk about wat to do incase of a ufo! see the documents that stanton friedman has obtained and dr. greer! see his CSETI 2009 barcelona confrence video 2-4..

[sacha4you]

uforesearchman, you still mix up facts and fiction: UFO-investigations of US-govt had no official results. Remember, a UFO means unidentified flying object - and nothing else. Without sufficient data, a UFO remains a UFO. E.g. secret military crafts are often mistaken as 'alien spaceships'. Once again, commerical exo-ufoists like Greer or Friedman are snake-oil sellers. They live on the expense of fooling easy believing people.

I'll send you a PM. There you can read all your arguments. ;-))

[uforesearchman]

sacha4you, i believe that a true man of research can take both sides of the evidence and view them with a sound mind! besides sasha4you, i go off of evidence...why was blue book denied to study ufo cases they were of national security, such as nuclear base sightings and others if there were no ufo's?

what about bob jacobs vandenburg optical

officer, and major mansmens letter? jimmy carter is on record as saying he could not be briefed into the subject this is froof ! the phenoix lights?

[sacha4you]

(2 ff) ... from the implant, since the guy has no idea what a Farady cage is. Remember, he is a MD and neither an electrical engineer, nor a physicist. What you call evidence or proofs are claims, misperceptions or misidentifications in the best case and hoaxes in the worst case. Once again: A proof is accessible, verifyable, repeatable, unambigous and never bound to the perception of a person.

Exo-ufuism has nothing to do with science. It's a matter of spiritual beliefs.

;-))

[uforesearchman]

i dont believe that every official is lying about this matter or the info they proclaim! i mean come on corso was head of the foreign technology division and worked in the white house! admiral inman still serves in the navy! not to mention the likes of FFA officials, governors, and even a president! gordon cooper, and so many other astronauts..not to mention people on the inside of nasa! the airbrushing of nasa photo;s can also be proven and wat about the work of doctor leer?

there is evidence

[uforesearchman]

sacha4you, you say you want proof on this matter, and u lack the knowledge and proof to proove that these peolple are lying! you havent answered my question about dr. leer! he has removed objects from peoples body that have been prooven to me made of an unknown metal! tey even give off radio signals and have nerve endins around the, popular machenics wrote an article on it and it was documented by dozens different laboratories

the bob sallas nuclear base incident thats also documented? PROOF

[sacha4you]

uforesearchman, whenever somebody pretends being in a high ranking official particular position, like Greer's fantastic ET-fairy tale tellers, then you have your proof, these are liars. Check it out for yourself: Call Philco-Ford and ask, if a 'Donna Hare' were ever employed. The answer was no. Dr. Roger Liar (typo intended) tells ancdotical stories about his alleged alien implants. Fact is, he couldn't present an unambigous proof. Instead, he picks up environmental RF and claims, it came ...

[kor314]

lolyou mean like you have claimed many times to be high ranking and in a particular position, with acces to certain knowledge we do not.. so maybe you are the fairy tale teller here.. seeing everyone else is according to you, i think it might be an idea to consider you tyhe same thing

[sacha4you]

kor314, I've never claimed, I were 'high ranking'. Otherwise, I'd let me hire by Steven Greer's muppet-show and and did a (whistle)blow-job. For money of course. Remember, I'm only a little, dumb, narrow minded electrical engineer who cares more about facts than widespread superstition and misbeliefs. Our institute is so unimportant, very few people even know, we exist. However, our work saves a lot of taxpayers money, since superflous things like public space-programs can be reduced. ;-))

;-))

[kor314]

oh yes you do my friend.. a few posts down in this thread you claim to have shown decision makers YT-posts.. this claim suggests you are in position where "decision makers'" come to you for advise.. which, on a side note, i find very unlikely because you used YT-posts to convince them.. lol... how scientific of you

[uforesearchman]

can u prove there lying and that this is just exo-ufoistic conspiracytainment? no u cant! u have no evidence for this claim! ya some of these people get paid for there appearance, but so do scientist and most other people who do conferences in other fields! they have to pay bills some how! but i look at the evidence in the documents that have been pulled from goverment files such as the condon report, project blue book, project sign, and many others..

[sacha4you]

uforesearchman, you can prove it for yourself: Try e.g. to track down the identities of Greer's most fantastic fairy tale tellers: Donna Hare, Karl Wolfe, Edgar Fouche, Stan Deyo: You will run into dead ends, since these girls and guys had never the claimed positions.

Remember, the exo-ufuistic circus is a multi-billion business - like cults. So the very same means are used to trap followers.

;-))

[uforesearchman]

sacha4you, i always look at both sides of the story my freind! and my conclusion is that our goverment is lying to its people about technology that can propel objects thru our skies that brake our law of "KNOWN' phycics rather it be ours or of an unknown origin! by evidence lies in many goverment documents such as the nathan twineing memo, uk ministry of defence files, astronaut radio voice recordings, and the research from harvard professor john mack, timothy good, and FFA official, radar logs

[uforesearchman]

sacha4you, you say empty words hu? well heres some evidence w/ words! we have STS-29 space shuttle discovery 1989, were a nasa transmission was recorded in maryland w/ discoverynsaying they had an alien craft in sight! and nasa has never confirmed or denied! and what about STS-73 1995 were astronaut Kathrine Coleman was caught saying we have an spacecraft in our sights, and then she was told to switch to DOD frequency..they have 2 channels 1 public 1 DOD..this is more PROOF...i love debating

[sacha4you]

uforesearchman, NASA has never confirmed they had any proof about ET-visitation on earth or elsewhere in our solar system. Exo-ufoistic conspiracytainment industry however is rich in (empty) words and retorics and is well known, they fabricate their evidence, deliberatly misinterpret incidents and exploit every misidentification of NASA- employees in a manner, these things fit into their agenda. NASA has denied this exo-ufoistic nonsense many times. [Ask an astrobiologist]

;-))

[WinduChi6]

@Sacha:

Sacha you need to read that memo that was sent out recently.

Because you haven't gotten the message; NASA is LYING THOUGH THEIR FUCKING TEETH ABOUT ALIEN VISITATION.

And you are committing treason against all humanity every time you LIE THOUGHT YOUR FUCKING TEETH, for those assholes.

Your treason is rampant friend.

[sacha4you]

WinduChi6, I hate to tell you, but I haven't seen yet, NASA told lies about (alleged) alien visitation. Remember, no space agency on our planet takes any position whenever something unexplainable was seen. Our ever busy exo-ufoistic conspiracytainment industry however turns every ice-crystal into a mile-wide alien spaceship and deceives people deliberatly by shocking-secret misinterpretations. (The STS-75 incident is a good example) Full disclosure will come in a couple of centuries.

;-))

[WinduChi6]

@Sacha.

Couple of Centuries my ass Sacha, you're foolish and really desperate to continue to cling to that fantasy time-line.

You will lose this war on Disclosure, I will make sure you fail, friend. ;-)

I'm sick and tire of saying this, there were no damn ice-crystals in the STS- 75 videos I know the physics of orbital mechanics; anything in a gravitational field can't make right angle turns or U-turns if those objects don't provide their own propulsion...

[sacha4you]

WinduChi6, I hate to tell you, but lately, there was a meeting with decision makers, in that the topic was covered and pros/cons were discussed. I've shown these guys loads of crazy posts from YT, Marsanomalyresearch, examiner, etc. They became so concerned about the exo-ufoistic (religious) mainstream misbeliefs, they recognized a clear and present danger for our civil and followed our referral. Hence you can be pretty sure, the topic will remain in the poison cabinet - for centuries.

;-))

[MJ12DAVE]

Guys stop arguing with this one. There is plenty of documented evidence and proof. You can argue all night and it won't matter. Trust me there is a reason for this behavior. Irratating? Yes, but if you knew the reason why you to would see why it's so laugable. UFOs are real so enjoy the clips, spread the word and ignore those who stand so firmly against their Disclosure. God if you only knew! PEACE

MJ12DAVE

"anytime,anyplace,anywhere"

[sacha4you]

MJ12DAVE, obviously you've got the enema with the exo-ufoistic active agents: 'Plenty of documented evidence and proof'? A daydream. 'You can argue all night ... it' won't matter - Spread the word'? What translates to leave alone scientific thinking, swallow the exo-ufoistic dogmata and proselytize the infidels. Not worth to mention, nobody denies the existence of UFOs, since this is a technical acronym for an object an observer can't identifiy due insufficient data or special conditions. ;-))

[MJ12DAVE]

whatever....it doesn't matter what you say, PERIOD! What a joke!

[sacha4you]

MJ12DAVE, my humble self isn't important, indeed. However, my statements might prevent you from carrying false hopes in your head. I guess, it's easier to lie on the deathbed without the begging why-question.

;-))

[kor314]

lol if you were presented proof from sources that are reliable you would most likely say they were brainwashed by ufotainment industry simply because you refuse to look at matters in a non-biased objective manner.. all you want to see and hear is what backs you up in your very narrow view on things

[sacha4you]

kor314, if the word if didn't exist, I wouldn't hesitate to ride a unicorn.

;-))

[kor314]

lol.. thats all you have as reply? so you believe in unicorns? got any proof of their existence haha

;-))

[lllwindrunner]

MJ- agreed and there's no need for sacha4you to have his nervous breakdown. If he really had plausible explanations for unexplained UFO's then we'd be happy to hear it, but only if the evidence to support the debunking is presented. Claiming a secrecy *is not* evidence of credibilty or proof. There have been too many times we noticed that the closer to the truth one gets, the more desperate the person(s) trying to conceal the truth will become, thus the intensity and frequency of the ridicule.