this is basically industrial compesition (think most horror movies, or silent hill) before such a thing truley existed, this man was more genous than anyone at that time could have ever known
How lucky we are to have this kinescope clip exist! I'm sure it is being watched again due to its mention in this week's New Yorker. I would have loved to hear what Henry Morgan thought of it; he being quite outspoken. I would also love to know how much of an appearance fee Mr Cage received. Probably less then $100.
I must say, personally I found this pretty cool. Definitely some unique approach. And no, doesn't seemed to me that Mr. John Cage was doing everything at random. He put whole his creativity into this process.
john cage is a genius cause he made attentive for the beauty of pure sound. at the same time he showed the world the problem of defining what is music. it's a fluent passage, very subjective flexible/realtive. the same goes for instruments.
however i've to admit that seeing the performance is indeed quite funny :)
Actually, the fact that the host abandoned his own show format to let cage have time to perform the whole piece speaks volumes about his attitude toward Cage. Normally on this show, there would have been a bunch of time with the panel trying to guess what Cage was & very little time for the actual music.
Also, let's not forget that Cage was NEVER above letting us have a laugh at what he was doing. It was serious & funny at the same time.
What does that condescending, close-minded, middle-class, bow-tied prick know about music and art? "Experimental SOUND...He takes it seriously; I think it's interesting... If you're amused you may laugh... The review was not entirely favorable..." What a prick.
the close - minded 'prick' has balls to have Cage on his show, he has to present this music that he thinks is fascinating to a live audience in a way that they can understand. The presenter knows the value of Cage's work but must frame it this way for it to be taken in by the audience.
I don't know--though perhaps you do--that it was the presenter's decision to have Cage on the show. And I think that if you watch this clip again, scrutinizing and listening to the presenter, you'll see that privately he considers Cage a charlatan. You may detect pomposity as well. Maybe it was harsh of me to call him a "prick"; probably he's somewhere between a prick and an asshole. Call him a perineum.
You know, it's that sort of condescending behavior that pushed audiences away from the performance hall. Sure he may not have understood it but he never at any point showed a condescending attitude toward cage, further he kept the bad review to himself but read the favorable part to the audience.
@c0ngo Hey RELAX!!! Applaud the host ( & network) for offering a venue for this unique talent & sharing a mind-expanding experience with the American public. Your average person would have no clue who John Cage is. Remember, the bigger your audience, the more you need to appeal to the lowest common denominator. TV is about ratings. This was gusty & way ahead of its time.
@c0ngo@c0ngo Hey RELAX!!! Applaud the host ( & network) for offering a venue for this unique talent & sharing a mind-expanding experience with the American public. Your average person would have no clue who John Cage is. Remember, the bigger your audience, the more you need to appeal to the lowest common denominator. TV is about ratings. This was gusty & way ahead of its time.
This is random and this is why is so hilarious, no one would expected him to do those things, and in a so serious way I have to say. I guess 90% of the entertaining comes from watching him doing things to make sounds, I don't know how it's possible to just hear sounds and not get bored or enjoy it(I think you can convince yourself and others that you like it though to feel better then others). I guess this has also other meanings that I couldn't find out myself.
Most of his work, about this time at least, consisted of composition through randomization. He had no idea what he would write and didnt actually influence the work with his own ideas
as a longtime Cage devotee, any opportunity to expose new listeners (experiencers?) to this man's vision gets a hearty "hurrah" from me
that being said, I was just wondering what the production meeting at the network was like when one of the staff offered the idea for this particular segment to the bosses ... "You're going to have a musician - where? ... Playing what? ... And how do you propose we get a grand piano for this thing?"
This is genius - Cage maybe would have approved of the audience laughing as this is part of the indeterminacy of each individual performance, as is the inability to use the radios as intended. Much more fun than listening to Coldplay.
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this is so fucking sad there is nothing here with that open minded atittude there is music when I clean my ass this is art but is not music, is just art because most avant garde people make something stupid and others will say= wow man you are the best, I was curious for this guy and now I know he was a Thief and sucks.
well, this brings up the important question: what is music? perhaps it is the production of sound in an organized fashion. is a bird chirping music? because the bird is most likely not singing with the intent that others will sit and listen to it.
cage's music makes you think. sound is everywhere, intentional or not. cage noted that when in the anechoic chamber at harvard he could still hear 2 sounds: his heart beat and his breathing. is that music or just sound? how do you distinguish the 2?
Does anyone feel that Cage's piece is not as effective because it gives you an explanation for each and every sound? I played this to my fello artists and most preferred the audio on it own.this gave the audience more time to think about the sounds he was making. Or are the married and made a s one?
khaliackford, I have thought that before. I never really looked at this as something to hear anyway, I just like this video for the ability to see Cage work. But, yes, just the audio would give better effect I'm sure.
Idiot. This piece was one of Cage's hoaxes! He used to produce jokes like this occasionally to see if the people claiming to admire his music could tell the difference between his 'real' music and the 'joke' pieces. Of course they were caught out, pretending to admire 'music' which Cage himself regarded purely as a bit of meaningless theatrical fun.
Cage was a great man. But he laughed at the pretentious people who claimed to admire his work but who actually didn't understand any of it.
well, that's my opinion. if you think i claim to admire his music, you are wrong. i said that i think he's ahead of its time. a visionay. and i still think so, i did not talk about this piece in particular. and, by the way, thanks for calling me idiot. where i live it means a person full of good ideas ;)
SOME INSANE COMMENTS POSTED ON THE "CAGE BUS 333" VIDEO 'an almost perfect rendition' (BluesMan4613) 'excellent and original presentation' (YESANDNOANDYES) 'a lovely rendition' (anovasjo) 'a fine tasteful presentation' (RockMusicIsCrap) 'a rewarding artistic experience' (Catsarewonderful) 'an inspired performance' (MyTrainIsAlwaysLate) 'a compelling performance' (BillTheBullshitter) 'excellent performance' (fxtto) 'a fascinating artistic experience' (GeorgeBushMustGo) BOLLOCKS
This must be one of the most brilliant moments in television history, and I thank you for sharing such a human, inspired and thoroughly delightful clip.
very nice thank you for posting. And for everyone saying this is crap you have to understand the context and the time in art history that this took place. The piece is literally just about sound and nothing more. Just like a Jackson Pollock along with Modernist art is just about paint. It doesn't mean you have to like it, I could care less if you don't. But when you don't know the history behind you are just being ignorant with your comments.
Yes, knowledge of the historical context can support the artistic experience and intensify our reaction to it (such as with the current debate on Shostakovich) and even Mozart's works are being newly evaluated with these criteria nowadays. But if we take away the historical context, does the SOUND of Cage's music have anything to offer us at all? I doubt it.
Do you mean that KingBoneheadVIII is a fool because he cites knowledge of the historical context as being relevant or that he is a fool because he doesn't consider that the SOUND (without background context) of Cage's music has anything to offer us?
At least he's better than some of the morons on YouTube whose contributions to the debate are limited to comments such as "this is shit".
try to understand that john cage creates music having in mind the same principles that are in the origin of nature,of life itself,it's a music you can not predict,as you can not predict nature or life,there are no historical context bullshit involved,it is just about understanding where he is trying to go with music,music=nature=life,try listening to cage music and compare it to your daily life moments
but in fact they are not random as life and nature because he is organizing them sounds would never occur the way he made them occur, in addition it is better to exemplify nature through a symphony the way Beethoven or Stravinsky did which is the real genius behind music, ...this is simply annoying sounds...
I agree, but also I can hardly call this music, it is artificial random sounds and I actually think John Cage knew this and was testing pretentious people...
Most of the people with negative comments obviously don't know a lot about the evolution of art and sound - you're observing this through much too narrow of a perspective
My concern is that this represents not so much the evolution of art as the degeneration of art. I think my perspective is fairly wide, as I can accept Xenakis, Stockhausen and other twentieth-century 'classics' like them, but surely Cage applied no judgement at all in creating this.
This type of anti-art is more of a worry than an irritation.
I dont agree at all. Stockhausen is more about composition or unusual sounds. John Cage work is partially to do with reaction, sure it is... but his theory behind what the piece actually is, the concept reaches beyond what most composers try to achieve.
I agree totally. Its insane to think that we (as people) have become more close minded. Think its partially to do with the lack of narrative of somethings. People feel uncomfortable with something that they cannot grasp straight away, we need to be spoon fed information. The evolution of art revolves on public funding and how artists can make a living, and thats why some people think its degenerating.
If you look at John Cages work on a whole, this piece isnt any different. Its fantastic, rational and not complete lunacy. I would never call it childish, as he always knows exactly what hes doing and the repercussions... hes an artist. And its a pity that some people even now are even less open minded as people were back when this was shot.
Generally rubbish and meaningless, but maybe not to be condemned too much provided people don't take it seriously. The "anti-art" brigade who don't understand anything about culture use this kind of nonsense as one of their weapons in their bid to oppose real art. Admiration for Cage, and the "sub culture" in general, is normally caused by sad people's resentment that they feel outside the mainstream of cultural experience.
Indeed. There is too much pseudo-liberal broadmindedness these days concerning this sort of infantile trash. This tolerance stems from a fear of appearing elitist, but we ought to just speak out confidently and expose this "anti-art" movement for what it is: a malign attempt by outsiders to deny the value of true art, simply because it is beyond the comprehension of the outsiders themselves.
Yes, you tell the truth about this mindless crap. Many of us who reject this pathetic shit have been through the phase of trying to see something of value in it, but in time most of us grow up and realise it's just bollocks.
OK, it's a novelty. Listen to it once and have a laugh, but don't waste your life on it. There's Beethoven, Mahler and a whole world of REAL music out there.
This kind of artistic vandalism needs to be stamped out if the worthwide decline in artistic and cultural awareness is to be halted. The grotesque spectacle of reading comments from viewers who actually claim to see and/or hear something valuable in this unequivocal rubbish shows how cynical many people are in their attitude towards art.
My percussion instructer did this act at his recital (spelling?). And the whole crowd couldn't help but laugh at the way he preformed the tasks. though i do consider this music, when preformed i believe it does have a comical element to it, and is part of the preformance. at least it was for my instructor. So i find nothing wrong in the audience laughing at the visuals.the beauty of art is it can be interpreted in different ways.
BigTimeBoredom: Well said. Cage was a great big zero. Let's cut through the crap and expose this retarded charlatan as the fake that he is. Only America could produce shit on this level.
All this shit-talk: and what do you do for a living? And who will remember you 50 yrs from now? And how many pieces by Cage have you studied? And how many times have you denied yourself a musical experience because you were too concerned with people's shit?
Oh yes, I see that the account of STEVETHEBIKER is now closed. But he'll probably open up another one with a new username. It should be easy enough to recognise Steve's unique literary style, with its idiosyncratic grammar, and inventive spelling ('gitarist', 'pretenshus', etc)
In general look for comments extensively featuring the words f******, a******, s***, b******* (etc) and we'll know that Steve is back to edify us with his carefully considered assessments of avant-garde classics ...
hi all im currently in the process of writing a dissertation on cage and am therefore gathering as much information as possible related to cage, if anyone thinks they can help or has time to forward me links to look at (that they think relavent) please just reply to me via a youtube message ,i would be greatly thankful,
I am not sympathetic to Cage's ideas, so I can't help, and I don't know whether your dissertation is undergraduate or postgraduate level. But if you haven't already read the symposium on Cage edited by David Nicholls, I think you should start there. Few people know more about the American experimentalists than him; his book on Henry Cowell is also worth reading.
He was a different man, truly intelligent, and that is a great compliment to say in this world full of automats, robots & zombies (like the audience in that show!)
This is a proof that there is ground to cover, secrets to unfold, and breakthroughs to be made. Fantastic video!!!!!!!
It's a bit sad that our taste for modern art has waned. Now the general perception of modern music is the extremely conservative types of corporate crap like Madonna, among others whose sheer lack of imagination gives way to boring music spiced up with suggestive words. It's so sad that many of the great musical artists of the late 20th century such as John Cage, John Lennon or Frank Zappa to name just a few, are gone and no one has stepped into their shoes.
stockhausen didn´t make any shocking comment on the 9/11 tragedy. There was a misunderstanding. I suggest you to go and check stockhausen´s article in the wikipedia and you´ll see. By the way, john cage was the greatest artist of the 20th century
I'll certainly check out the Stockhausen article as you suggest. Prof Richard Taruskin (in his article 'When serious music mattered') is angry about Stockhausen's 9/11 comment, but if it is a misunderstanding I hope people will get to hear of the mistake. But did John Cage WANT to be considered an 'artist'? Sure his ideas ultimately stem not just from Satie but from Ives, specifically from Ives's anti-elitism (and even anti-'artist') comments in 'Essays before a sonata'?
I have just read the Wikipedia article on Stockhausen. Yes, there has been a serious worldwide misunderstanding and Stockhausen clearly did NOT make any shocking comment about 9/11. I apologise for my mistake in my comment last week.
Watch the video of a guitarist performing 4'33" on a public bus. You can find it with a search on 'cage bus 333' (yes, that's 333, NOT 433; 333 is the number of the bus route).
What is interesting about that video is that the performance is serious and respectful of Cage's intentions, but the environment in which it takes place (a bus) might be seen as a joke. But 4'33" does not need a 'serious' concert hall atmosphere.
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BruckerEnthuisat r u seriously telling us that we shld be watching a gitarist performing on a BUS and that we should watch him evebn though he doesn't play anything? u need your haed examined you asshole
jhl1908: I wondered about that too. 'Steve the biker' has apparently also been watching Xenakis videos and his wildly hysterical, incoherent comment about one of them really is hilarious (search for 'xenakis yuji' and the video will appear in the search).
Steve seems enraged that I recommended a book about Cage (see his comment lower down). But surely if we don't understand something we should seek to read about it?
There's a simple comment from Cage at 3:20 which shows wisdom: in response to the host's warning that some people in the audience will laugh at his music he says gently, 'I consider laughter preferable to tears'. I don't think Cage intended that as a joke, although the audience takes it as one. There's been much controversy about the relationship of avant-garde music to real life after Karlheinz Stockhausen's shocking comment about the 9/11 tragedy; at least Cage has his priorities right.
Shame the radios wer'nt allowed to be turned on. That would have sounded a lot better just cos it would have added this ambient, sorta white noise in the background.
I laughed my ass off!!! And yet LOVED the video, the purpose, the sounds... the concepts of some actions (like punching the radios since they could not be used as he intended)...
The greatness of Cage is ALSO the he brought FUN back to the so called "serious music" (what a name...) And I'm certain that he appreciated the laughs, after all, they are part of the 'music'
Changing the subject, Cage on a mainstream TV show...Probably better times for mass media...
Just wow! I actually thought this was only going to be a buch of nioses but everything follows the same frames and every sound just fits perfectly with the moment and the atmosphere. Once again. Wow!
... the most important thing for me isn't that he make some noises with these things, but that he do it without humor. I cant imagine that he just took some things and trys to produce sound without thinking about it. He has a system and i think its very interesting to understand WHY he do it and whats the reason of doing some "noise" what he calls "sound"...
Yeah, some people listen to a man making some noises and because they can 'unerstand' it, those people shuld be so intelligent and probably are better than most people out there.
Not necessarily. It's not to do with intelligence. It's to do with how trained your ears are, and if you can hear music in things that your average person wouldn't.
I would like to thank Frank Zappa for giving me my first taste of contemporary music. Without him, listenning to performances from Varèse, Cage, Reich, Glass, etc, I would be among the crowd laughing and unable to see or hear the beauty where we would never think to find it.
thanks for post it. since a have heard and read about john cage i've been looking for some videos of him. it's not something you see everywhere on the internet. thanks!
wow! Imagine how bizzare this must have seemed back then, even your average TV audience today would have real problems getting their head round this. A true pioneer and way ahead of his time.
Most wonderful - the composure and grace of the man. The laughter another telling sound. Reactive: to the absurdity of the unions not being able to plug in his radios. Knock them off the ground; A subtle, composed, focused statement. Johnny, we hardly knew ye.
Laugh if you will, but just imagine broadcast TV (or even the most adventuresome of cable outlets, save the Game Show Network, I suppose?!) spending this much time broadcasting, say, a work by Ablinger, Lucier, Lachenmann, or Ferneyhough, much less JLIAT, Barrett, Pateras, LaPorte, etc., etc. in the current era of TV.
Thanks to whoever posted this, if only to remind us of how far we've sunk in our collective awareness of contemporary art and music.
My dad had the LP of Stockhausen Mikrophonie I & II, simply b/c he was in college and that's what one purchased when curious and in college. And now? What's the equivalent?
Very well put. I feel the exact same way. This show wasn't some underground show, it was a mainstream show. And the whole show is ad-libbed by the host because he wanted Cage to play the whole composition. He had enough intelligence and respect for Cage to adjust his show for him. Can you imagine Leno or his ilk ad-libbing like this host?
I don't think much of this, as music, but Cage seems like a charismatic guy! Also interesting performance.
XIIXCECXIIX 2 months ago
this is basically industrial compesition (think most horror movies, or silent hill) before such a thing truley existed, this man was more genous than anyone at that time could have ever known
joevil2025 1 year ago
It's possible the jurisdictional union dispute actually improved this piece, at least visually.
yoursuchagoodguy 1 year ago
5:40
DavidSabine 1 year ago
I really thing that the audience honestly loved this.
turdking 1 year ago
How lucky we are to have this kinescope clip exist! I'm sure it is being watched again due to its mention in this week's New Yorker. I would have loved to hear what Henry Morgan thought of it; he being quite outspoken. I would also love to know how much of an appearance fee Mr Cage received. Probably less then $100.
larryirun 1 year ago
if a sound annoy you, listen to it, he said
trojanlol 1 year ago
I must say, personally I found this pretty cool. Definitely some unique approach. And no, doesn't seemed to me that Mr. John Cage was doing everything at random. He put whole his creativity into this process.
Intars5d 1 year ago
Genius????
A musician???
A CLOWN.
musunino 1 year ago
@musunino All of the above.
hamradium 1 year ago
@musunino A LADIES MAN!
happyface4444 1 year ago
i love it i love it
susanitalugano 1 year ago
The TARDIS according to Cage.
TheAtma 1 year ago
close your eyes and minus the laughter you have music
danahhhhhhful 1 year ago
bloody brilliant...
hueburke 1 year ago
This is brilliant! Shame about the sound quality - the rubber duck gets lost - but perhaps it doesn't really matter too much.
malgray2 1 year ago
john cage is a genius cause he made attentive for the beauty of pure sound. at the same time he showed the world the problem of defining what is music. it's a fluent passage, very subjective flexible/realtive. the same goes for instruments.
however i've to admit that seeing the performance is indeed quite funny :)
nyhyl 1 year ago
@nyhyl Totally agree.
Lisa1LinenLady 1 year ago
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nyhyl 1 year ago
I love this, bloody legend!
EverybodyLovesHelen 1 year ago
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mugrarth 1 year ago
exacto¡¡¡¡¡
irvaz8 1 year ago
Wow. You could never air that these days...
unmedication 2 years ago
Actually, the fact that the host abandoned his own show format to let cage have time to perform the whole piece speaks volumes about his attitude toward Cage. Normally on this show, there would have been a bunch of time with the panel trying to guess what Cage was & very little time for the actual music.
Also, let's not forget that Cage was NEVER above letting us have a laugh at what he was doing. It was serious & funny at the same time.
Klimchak 2 years ago 3
Thank you or posting this.
mankaloo 2 years ago
What does that condescending, close-minded, middle-class, bow-tied prick know about music and art? "Experimental SOUND...He takes it seriously; I think it's interesting... If you're amused you may laugh... The review was not entirely favorable..." What a prick.
dnggitg 2 years ago
the close - minded 'prick' has balls to have Cage on his show, he has to present this music that he thinks is fascinating to a live audience in a way that they can understand. The presenter knows the value of Cage's work but must frame it this way for it to be taken in by the audience.
c0ngo 2 years ago 11
I don't know--though perhaps you do--that it was the presenter's decision to have Cage on the show. And I think that if you watch this clip again, scrutinizing and listening to the presenter, you'll see that privately he considers Cage a charlatan. You may detect pomposity as well. Maybe it was harsh of me to call him a "prick"; probably he's somewhere between a prick and an asshole. Call him a perineum.
dnggitg 2 years ago
You know, it's that sort of condescending behavior that pushed audiences away from the performance hall. Sure he may not have understood it but he never at any point showed a condescending attitude toward cage, further he kept the bad review to himself but read the favorable part to the audience.
Jaydoggy531 2 years ago
@c0ngo
you nailed it
rocketsauce08 2 years ago
@c0ngo Hey RELAX!!! Applaud the host ( & network) for offering a venue for this unique talent & sharing a mind-expanding experience with the American public. Your average person would have no clue who John Cage is. Remember, the bigger your audience, the more you need to appeal to the lowest common denominator. TV is about ratings. This was gusty & way ahead of its time.
Lisa1LinenLady 1 year ago
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@c0ngo @c0ngo Hey RELAX!!! Applaud the host ( & network) for offering a venue for this unique talent & sharing a mind-expanding experience with the American public. Your average person would have no clue who John Cage is. Remember, the bigger your audience, the more you need to appeal to the lowest common denominator. TV is about ratings. This was gusty & way ahead of its time.
Lisa1LinenLady 1 year ago
beautiful
NOWtheband 2 years ago
I would love to see some recording of Frank Zappa performing with this dude, Must have been an interesting show.
Karmakanic7 2 years ago 2
This is random and this is why is so hilarious, no one would expected him to do those things, and in a so serious way I have to say. I guess 90% of the entertaining comes from watching him doing things to make sounds, I don't know how it's possible to just hear sounds and not get bored or enjoy it(I think you can convince yourself and others that you like it though to feel better then others). I guess this has also other meanings that I couldn't find out myself.
92jacko 2 years ago 2
Most of his work, about this time at least, consisted of composition through randomization. He had no idea what he would write and didnt actually influence the work with his own ideas
chaos489 2 years ago
Cage was, alongside with King Tubby, the most important music maker of the 20th century
Westlake72 2 years ago
as a longtime Cage devotee, any opportunity to expose new listeners (experiencers?) to this man's vision gets a hearty "hurrah" from me
that being said, I was just wondering what the production meeting at the network was like when one of the staff offered the idea for this particular segment to the bosses ... "You're going to have a musician - where? ... Playing what? ... And how do you propose we get a grand piano for this thing?"
DoctorPatient 2 years ago
if jessticktock was alive them, he/she would be listening to laurence welk and fearing the reds.
rehgrafrehgraf 2 years ago
This is bull and you all know it.
jessticktock 2 years ago
Totalmente de acuerdo, vaya auditorio tan estúpido. Filtren eso y es muy es interesante música y documento histórico.
arkavi90 3 years ago
Stupid audience!!
sahandsesoot 3 years ago
This is genius - Cage maybe would have approved of the audience laughing as this is part of the indeterminacy of each individual performance, as is the inability to use the radios as intended. Much more fun than listening to Coldplay.
adamg709 3 years ago 7
smoke weed.
sendmecandy 3 years ago 5
BIG TUNE!!!!!!
floamcore 3 years ago
this is ingenious!
unfortunately, the performance is ruined by the fucking audience.
cage - amazing.
mibifinalist 3 years ago
a treasure
flip0830 3 years ago
everyone just shut up
longliveslf 3 years ago 4
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this is so fucking sad there is nothing here with that open minded atittude there is music when I clean my ass this is art but is not music, is just art because most avant garde people make something stupid and others will say= wow man you are the best, I was curious for this guy and now I know he was a Thief and sucks.
mikeanaro 3 years ago
John Cage inspire you comment, and there is, thanks
llaven 3 years ago 5
@llaven he's either really good at free improv or very bad at piano
happyface4444 1 year ago
this sound like music to me.
jasmincar 3 years ago
This is amazing.
JeeRant 3 years ago
well, this brings up the important question: what is music? perhaps it is the production of sound in an organized fashion. is a bird chirping music? because the bird is most likely not singing with the intent that others will sit and listen to it.
cage's music makes you think. sound is everywhere, intentional or not. cage noted that when in the anechoic chamber at harvard he could still hear 2 sounds: his heart beat and his breathing. is that music or just sound? how do you distinguish the 2?
brlpink 3 years ago
Does anyone feel that Cage's piece is not as effective because it gives you an explanation for each and every sound? I played this to my fello artists and most preferred the audio on it own.this gave the audience more time to think about the sounds he was making. Or are the married and made a s one?
khaliackford 3 years ago 2
khaliackford, I have thought that before. I never really looked at this as something to hear anyway, I just like this video for the ability to see Cage work. But, yes, just the audio would give better effect I'm sure.
drumjunkie10 3 years ago
wow i thought it was gonna suck but it was actually interesting and disturbing
wearedead18 3 years ago
oh oh oh oh hi there hi there...LOL
Hairclips1988 4 years ago
i think he his ahead of its time. a visionary
argamenom 4 years ago
Idiot. This piece was one of Cage's hoaxes! He used to produce jokes like this occasionally to see if the people claiming to admire his music could tell the difference between his 'real' music and the 'joke' pieces. Of course they were caught out, pretending to admire 'music' which Cage himself regarded purely as a bit of meaningless theatrical fun.
Cage was a great man. But he laughed at the pretentious people who claimed to admire his work but who actually didn't understand any of it.
TheSpiritOfBuggery 4 years ago
well, that's my opinion. if you think i claim to admire his music, you are wrong. i said that i think he's ahead of its time. a visionay. and i still think so, i did not talk about this piece in particular. and, by the way, thanks for calling me idiot. where i live it means a person full of good ideas ;)
argamenom 4 years ago
"But he laughed at the pretentious people who claimed to admire his work but who actually didn't understand any of it."
hahaahaaaaa!!!! TheSpiritOfIrony.
squomb 4 years ago
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khsgvq 4 years ago
This must be one of the most brilliant moments in television history, and I thank you for sharing such a human, inspired and thoroughly delightful clip.
iris2gamera 4 years ago
very nice thank you for posting. And for everyone saying this is crap you have to understand the context and the time in art history that this took place. The piece is literally just about sound and nothing more. Just like a Jackson Pollock along with Modernist art is just about paint. It doesn't mean you have to like it, I could care less if you don't. But when you don't know the history behind you are just being ignorant with your comments.
soccerlu08 4 years ago
Yes, knowledge of the historical context can support the artistic experience and intensify our reaction to it (such as with the current debate on Shostakovich) and even Mozart's works are being newly evaluated with these criteria nowadays. But if we take away the historical context, does the SOUND of Cage's music have anything to offer us at all? I doubt it.
KingBoneheadVIII 4 years ago
fool
aps13 3 years ago
Do you mean that KingBoneheadVIII is a fool because he cites knowledge of the historical context as being relevant or that he is a fool because he doesn't consider that the SOUND (without background context) of Cage's music has anything to offer us?
At least he's better than some of the morons on YouTube whose contributions to the debate are limited to comments such as "this is shit".
AmyWinehouseIsCrap 3 years ago
try to understand that john cage creates music having in mind the same principles that are in the origin of nature,of life itself,it's a music you can not predict,as you can not predict nature or life,there are no historical context bullshit involved,it is just about understanding where he is trying to go with music,music=nature=life,try listening to cage music and compare it to your daily life moments
aps13 3 years ago 3
but in fact they are not random as life and nature because he is organizing them sounds would never occur the way he made them occur, in addition it is better to exemplify nature through a symphony the way Beethoven or Stravinsky did which is the real genius behind music, ...this is simply annoying sounds...
chopin8826 3 years ago
I agree, but also I can hardly call this music, it is artificial random sounds and I actually think John Cage knew this and was testing pretentious people...
chopin8826 3 years ago
Most of the people with negative comments obviously don't know a lot about the evolution of art and sound - you're observing this through much too narrow of a perspective
jsevits 4 years ago
My concern is that this represents not so much the evolution of art as the degeneration of art. I think my perspective is fairly wide, as I can accept Xenakis, Stockhausen and other twentieth-century 'classics' like them, but surely Cage applied no judgement at all in creating this.
This type of anti-art is more of a worry than an irritation.
RockMusicIsCrap 4 years ago
I dont agree at all. Stockhausen is more about composition or unusual sounds. John Cage work is partially to do with reaction, sure it is... but his theory behind what the piece actually is, the concept reaches beyond what most composers try to achieve.
claireguerin 4 years ago
I agree totally. Its insane to think that we (as people) have become more close minded. Think its partially to do with the lack of narrative of somethings. People feel uncomfortable with something that they cannot grasp straight away, we need to be spoon fed information. The evolution of art revolves on public funding and how artists can make a living, and thats why some people think its degenerating.
claireguerin 4 years ago
If you look at John Cages work on a whole, this piece isnt any different. Its fantastic, rational and not complete lunacy. I would never call it childish, as he always knows exactly what hes doing and the repercussions... hes an artist. And its a pity that some people even now are even less open minded as people were back when this was shot.
claireguerin 4 years ago 2
Childish rubbish.
spewspewspew 4 years ago
Generally rubbish and meaningless, but maybe not to be condemned too much provided people don't take it seriously. The "anti-art" brigade who don't understand anything about culture use this kind of nonsense as one of their weapons in their bid to oppose real art. Admiration for Cage, and the "sub culture" in general, is normally caused by sad people's resentment that they feel outside the mainstream of cultural experience.
109109109109109109 4 years ago 2
Indeed. There is too much pseudo-liberal broadmindedness these days concerning this sort of infantile trash. This tolerance stems from a fear of appearing elitist, but we ought to just speak out confidently and expose this "anti-art" movement for what it is: a malign attempt by outsiders to deny the value of true art, simply because it is beyond the comprehension of the outsiders themselves.
DAYOFDEADLYDOOM 4 years ago 2
Yes, you tell the truth about this mindless crap. Many of us who reject this pathetic shit have been through the phase of trying to see something of value in it, but in time most of us grow up and realise it's just bollocks.
OK, it's a novelty. Listen to it once and have a laugh, but don't waste your life on it. There's Beethoven, Mahler and a whole world of REAL music out there.
fxtto 4 years ago
Absolutely dire! This is right at the bottom of the pit in terms of what the human mind can achieve artistically. It's like a child playing!
shittyhead0 4 years ago
This kind of artistic vandalism needs to be stamped out if the worthwide decline in artistic and cultural awareness is to be halted. The grotesque spectacle of reading comments from viewers who actually claim to see and/or hear something valuable in this unequivocal rubbish shows how cynical many people are in their attitude towards art.
RockMusicIsCrap 4 years ago
My percussion instructer did this act at his recital (spelling?). And the whole crowd couldn't help but laugh at the way he preformed the tasks. though i do consider this music, when preformed i believe it does have a comical element to it, and is part of the preformance. at least it was for my instructor. So i find nothing wrong in the audience laughing at the visuals.the beauty of art is it can be interpreted in different ways.
Lorestraat 4 years ago
The nearest John Cage ever got to creativity was when he had a shit.
BigTimeBoredom 4 years ago
More like BigTimeBore.
RThornhill69 4 years ago
BigTimeBoredom: Well said. Cage was a great big zero. Let's cut through the crap and expose this retarded charlatan as the fake that he is. Only America could produce shit on this level.
popmusicmakesmevomit 4 years ago 3
BTB: Yes, when Cage dropped his load it probably had more form and substance than this utter crap.
thehappydustbin 4 years ago 4
What a fucking shithead! This stuff comes right out the ass and should be pumped back up the ass.
azplazpl 4 years ago
All this shit-talk: and what do you do for a living? And who will remember you 50 yrs from now? And how many pieces by Cage have you studied? And how many times have you denied yourself a musical experience because you were too concerned with people's shit?
compossibles12 4 years ago
Music? Bullshit.
zang009 4 years ago
this is fucking great. 5 stars.
srvwtr1 4 years ago
I don't pretend I understand the music.
But I think an open mind is the key to discover new exciting things.
By the way it looks like STEVETHEBIKER has been closed down now.
jhl1908 4 years ago
Oh yes, I see that the account of STEVETHEBIKER is now closed. But he'll probably open up another one with a new username. It should be easy enough to recognise Steve's unique literary style, with its idiosyncratic grammar, and inventive spelling ('gitarist', 'pretenshus', etc)
In general look for comments extensively featuring the words f******, a******, s***, b******* (etc) and we'll know that Steve is back to edify us with his carefully considered assessments of avant-garde classics ...
BrucknerEnthusiast 4 years ago
Great comment to Roswell.
maestroanth 4 years ago
hi all im currently in the process of writing a dissertation on cage and am therefore gathering as much information as possible related to cage, if anyone thinks they can help or has time to forward me links to look at (that they think relavent) please just reply to me via a youtube message ,i would be greatly thankful,
doomallcaps.
doomallcaps 4 years ago
I am not sympathetic to Cage's ideas, so I can't help, and I don't know whether your dissertation is undergraduate or postgraduate level. But if you haven't already read the symposium on Cage edited by David Nicholls, I think you should start there. Few people know more about the American experimentalists than him; his book on Henry Cowell is also worth reading.
BrucknerEnthusiast 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
BrucknerEnthusiast, are you serious in saying that this vomit-inducing crap is worth READING about?
Man, this is pure shit!!!! And anyone who likes it can stick it right up their ass.
BrucknerEnthusiast you say you're "not sympathetic to Cage's ideas" so WTF are you doing recommending a book about him?
And who is the "Robertronics" guy who talks out his ass by calling Cage the greatest artist of the 20th century? He must be retarded.
STEVETHEBlKER 4 years ago
Amazing... I wouldn`t say genius, but different.
He was a different man, truly intelligent, and that is a great compliment to say in this world full of automats, robots & zombies (like the audience in that show!)
This is a proof that there is ground to cover, secrets to unfold, and breakthroughs to be made. Fantastic video!!!!!!!
Roswellsounds 4 years ago
Great comment.
maestroanth 4 years ago
It's a bit sad that our taste for modern art has waned. Now the general perception of modern music is the extremely conservative types of corporate crap like Madonna, among others whose sheer lack of imagination gives way to boring music spiced up with suggestive words. It's so sad that many of the great musical artists of the late 20th century such as John Cage, John Lennon or Frank Zappa to name just a few, are gone and no one has stepped into their shoes.
JoeJDL 4 years ago
john cage, john lennon and frank zappa are the best you can come up with for great musical artists of the 20th century?
rextalbot 4 years ago
that man is a genius...
onejivinturkey 4 years ago
stockhausen didn´t make any shocking comment on the 9/11 tragedy. There was a misunderstanding. I suggest you to go and check stockhausen´s article in the wikipedia and you´ll see. By the way, john cage was the greatest artist of the 20th century
robertronics 4 years ago
I'll certainly check out the Stockhausen article as you suggest. Prof Richard Taruskin (in his article 'When serious music mattered') is angry about Stockhausen's 9/11 comment, but if it is a misunderstanding I hope people will get to hear of the mistake. But did John Cage WANT to be considered an 'artist'? Sure his ideas ultimately stem not just from Satie but from Ives, specifically from Ives's anti-elitism (and even anti-'artist') comments in 'Essays before a sonata'?
BrucknerEnthusiast 4 years ago
I have just read the Wikipedia article on Stockhausen. Yes, there has been a serious worldwide misunderstanding and Stockhausen clearly did NOT make any shocking comment about 9/11. I apologise for my mistake in my comment last week.
BrucknerEnthusiast 4 years ago
no problem!
If Cage didn´t consider himself as an artist, it doesn´t matter to me. In my humble opinion, he was the best
robertronics 4 years ago
Idiot
STEVETHEBlKER 4 years ago
Watch the video of a guitarist performing 4'33" on a public bus. You can find it with a search on 'cage bus 333' (yes, that's 333, NOT 433; 333 is the number of the bus route).
What is interesting about that video is that the performance is serious and respectful of Cage's intentions, but the environment in which it takes place (a bus) might be seen as a joke. But 4'33" does not need a 'serious' concert hall atmosphere.
BrucknerEnthusiast 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
BruckerEnthuisat r u seriously telling us that we shld be watching a gitarist performing on a BUS and that we should watch him evebn though he doesn't play anything? u need your haed examined you asshole
STEVETHEBlKER 4 years ago
To: STEVETHEBIKER
If YOU think it's crap.
Why do YOU spend YOUR time on it then??
jhl1908 4 years ago
jhl1908: I wondered about that too. 'Steve the biker' has apparently also been watching Xenakis videos and his wildly hysterical, incoherent comment about one of them really is hilarious (search for 'xenakis yuji' and the video will appear in the search).
Steve seems enraged that I recommended a book about Cage (see his comment lower down). But surely if we don't understand something we should seek to read about it?
BrucknerEnthusiast 4 years ago
There's a simple comment from Cage at 3:20 which shows wisdom: in response to the host's warning that some people in the audience will laugh at his music he says gently, 'I consider laughter preferable to tears'. I don't think Cage intended that as a joke, although the audience takes it as one. There's been much controversy about the relationship of avant-garde music to real life after Karlheinz Stockhausen's shocking comment about the 9/11 tragedy; at least Cage has his priorities right.
BrucknerEnthusiast 4 years ago
Genius.
maestroanth 4 years ago
Actually don't u notice an Andy Kaufmann persona about him.
maestroanth 4 years ago
Shame the radios wer'nt allowed to be turned on. That would have sounded a lot better just cos it would have added this ambient, sorta white noise in the background.
robcastellani 4 years ago
i dont know why people laugh, they are stupid
cutza7 4 years ago
Brilliant!
If for nothing else, you have to give John credit for having such fresh ideas about music.
tubafatness 4 years ago
I laughed my ass off!!! And yet LOVED the video, the purpose, the sounds... the concepts of some actions (like punching the radios since they could not be used as he intended)...
The greatness of Cage is ALSO the he brought FUN back to the so called "serious music" (what a name...) And I'm certain that he appreciated the laughs, after all, they are part of the 'music'
Changing the subject, Cage on a mainstream TV show...Probably better times for mass media...
giopagoda 4 years ago
Just wow! I actually thought this was only going to be a buch of nioses but everything follows the same frames and every sound just fits perfectly with the moment and the atmosphere. Once again. Wow!
gurra9 4 years ago
... the most important thing for me isn't that he make some noises with these things, but that he do it without humor. I cant imagine that he just took some things and trys to produce sound without thinking about it. He has a system and i think its very interesting to understand WHY he do it and whats the reason of doing some "noise" what he calls "sound"...
cccpredarmy 4 years ago
Yeah, some people listen to a man making some noises and because they can 'unerstand' it, those people shuld be so intelligent and probably are better than most people out there.
DogEditus 4 years ago
Not necessarily. It's not to do with intelligence. It's to do with how trained your ears are, and if you can hear music in things that your average person wouldn't.
JezenThomas 4 years ago
I loved it! Those people doesn't know what music's about U_u
He's one of the greatest musicians ever O_o
BlakDarkness 4 years ago
I would like to thank Frank Zappa for giving me my first taste of contemporary music. Without him, listenning to performances from Varèse, Cage, Reich, Glass, etc, I would be among the crowd laughing and unable to see or hear the beauty where we would never think to find it.
tluagel 4 years ago
Viva zappatista!!!!!!!!!
juanzappa 4 years ago
Great stuff! This is on a par with Bruce Haack on the same show "playing music by passing electricity through peoples' bodies"...
synthforhire 4 years ago
Fantastic!
whilewewatch 4 years ago
thanks for post it. since a have heard and read about john cage i've been looking for some videos of him. it's not something you see everywhere on the internet. thanks!
santosbv 4 years ago
Fantastic. A breath of fresh air, a drink of cool water. Made when Television was actually something worth watching. MR/Paris
SamIam1959 4 years ago
This clip, and the presenter in it, provide one of the most balanced and enjoyable introductions to Cage's work.
lukecage123 4 years ago
LOL! America, the land of shit!
RightUpYourAss 4 years ago
Hmmm? What does this statement have to do with this video?
tubafatness 4 years ago
you sound like a pissed off teacher LOL
therimgreaper 4 years ago
wow! Imagine how bizzare this must have seemed back then, even your average TV audience today would have real problems getting their head round this. A true pioneer and way ahead of his time.
eddie23a 4 years ago
incredible committment. but the laughter is a bit infuriating.
jokerjkny 4 years ago
Yeah, the laughter is a bit annoying, but a modern audience would be worse...
GoblinGirl 4 years ago
Mind boggling. On a network tv game show? To have John Cage on, much less, perform his music?
mikern2001 4 years ago
the fungi to be with.
mikongo 4 years ago
Most wonderful - the composure and grace of the man. The laughter another telling sound. Reactive: to the absurdity of the unions not being able to plug in his radios. Knock them off the ground; A subtle, composed, focused statement. Johnny, we hardly knew ye.
vanwindmill 4 years ago
Laugh if you will, but just imagine broadcast TV (or even the most adventuresome of cable outlets, save the Game Show Network, I suppose?!) spending this much time broadcasting, say, a work by Ablinger, Lucier, Lachenmann, or Ferneyhough, much less JLIAT, Barrett, Pateras, LaPorte, etc., etc. in the current era of TV.
Thanks to whoever posted this, if only to remind us of how far we've sunk in our collective awareness of contemporary art and music.
amc654 4 years ago
My dad had the LP of Stockhausen Mikrophonie I & II, simply b/c he was in college and that's what one purchased when curious and in college. And now? What's the equivalent?
amc654 4 years ago
There is electronic music being made, but it's mostly underground here in NYC, but it's out there...
GoblinGirl 4 years ago
Very well put. I feel the exact same way. This show wasn't some underground show, it was a mainstream show. And the whole show is ad-libbed by the host because he wanted Cage to play the whole composition. He had enough intelligence and respect for Cage to adjust his show for him. Can you imagine Leno or his ilk ad-libbing like this host?
GoblinGirl 4 years ago
Love when he hits the water with a cymbal.
Jettie12 4 years ago
This is great! He was so radical and precise at the same time...Pushing the radios off the table is brilliant. What a great solution!!
timetexture 4 years ago
i love john cage. but it is quite funny, i totally understand why the people laughed.
wearerofscarves 4 years ago
brilliant! John Cage RIP
johnozed 4 years ago
fuck yeah. thank you for posting this.
longliveslf 4 years ago