Gays Contribute Too, Vote No on Question One

[Manuel2029]

@seaatheist

Hey you say that there is no prove but there is and to be honest you guys say we cant prove he exsist so you guys prove he doesnt!! Im sorry but you are the one whos brain washed

[Manuel2029]

Haha lil bitch yor pathetic unlike yew i have a life i dnt always log in on yew tube to act like a fag and yew talk too much abt cucumber yew want one haha fag!!!!! Anyway talk yewr shit dats jst an act of desperation haha lil fag well idgf cuz ur no one to talk shit ur proably d wrost of d wrost sooo peace and fuk yew hahah!!!!

[joethemoproductions]

I'd like to point out something Richard Dawkins wrote about atheist morality. He suggests that humans have an intrinsic moral sense. I'd like to add that this inherent morality is easily compromised.

Dawkins pointed out that if morality were merely a product of religion, we'd still be killing people for a hundred insignificant reasons. Even by new testament standards, there would still be slavery and misogyny and gay hostility.

[joethemoproductions]

Nations with a christian history have gone beyond their religious morality. Equality for women; the elimination of slavery, and gay rights are not part of the christian code. The question arises as to how is that possible. I agree with Dawkins: humans must have an inherent moral sense. Otherwise, we'd still be engaging in some brutal acts, such as slavery, etc.

[joethemoproductions]

Again, this moral sense has a lot of wiggle room.

I would also say that a look at western history shows a strong relationship between christian values and what many would say is immorality. It seems reasonable to state that the main enemy of an inherent moral sense is christian/muslim religion.

[SuperTruthlover]

Suffering in the world is considered evil!

Many skeptics of Christianity claim that the existence of evil in the world proves that a good God cannot exist. I believe this viewpoint is exactly backwards.

If you truly believe that there is evil in the world, then you must believe that there is good in the world as well. We cant know what is wrong unless we know what is right. We cant know a crooked line unless we know a straight line. We cant know injustice unless we know justice.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. Well I agree with most of what you said in that last comment. I would argue against most skeptics claiming that 'evil' in the world is 'proof' of gods non-existence. I wouldn't go that far.

I also don't along along with defining suffering as 'evil'. Unless that suffering is deliberately caused by a person or god for no good reason. But again, back to semantics.

The shanks can strike at any time when you're least expecting them. Just like that good friend of the shank, the yips.

[SuperTruthlover]

SeaTac

I think the shanks are caused by being to close to the ball. Many misunderstand the nature of the shanks and so continue to suffer. Does the fact the Golfers suffer prove God does not love the Golfer?

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. Standing too close to the ball is actually rarely the reason behind a shank. Jim Furyk stands way too close to the ball and he never shanks. Mostly is is caused by the swing-path back to the ball coming from too far inside. That is usually caused by the take-away movement coming inside too much too soon. And that's often the result of actually standing too FAR AWAY from the ball which promotes a flatter swing plane thus leading with the hosel. That will be sixty bucks please. No checks.

[SuperTruthlover]

But if there is real good and real evil in the world, then there must be an ultimate standard, a measuring stick by which to judge goodness and badness. This measuring stick must be perfect, so that all moral activity can be compared to it, just like determining the straightness of any line requires a perfectly straight line by which to compare

[joethemoproductions]

In the creation myths of Genesis, the earth is assumed to be flat.

In many of the stories where the Hebrews enter Canaan, the Hebrew god commands the death and enslavement of the Canaanites.

Conclusion: the bible is often in error and the Hebrew god is vicious.

These are facts found in the Bible.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. Everything that happens has been "predicted" by god of course. Unless you are telling me that some things have been taking him by surprise?

That you say god has seen fit that you are worthy to have food on your table whilst others who starve are not worthy, is arrogance of the highest order. Why you? You have gay friends, atheist friends, respect women, don't want disrespectful children stoned to death, and many other biblical doctrines you don't follow. You are not gods favourite!

[SuperTruthlover]

god has preordained lovely day golfing

I would never say such a thing how would I know? Predicted is not the same as preordained. God does most of his work through people and they have free will so plans adjust according to personal choices. I may decide not to play golf even when God is telling me His plan is for me to play Golf stupid me I thought is was being selfice playing Golf and God wanted me to play, The fact that God knows what I would do does not discount the choices I made

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. That's true. Predicted is not the same as preordained. i accept that. The original point being that whether he preordains or predicts events, he has the power to prevent the suffering of innocent people, but chooses not to. That idea is what needs explaining. Punishment? Revenge? For what?

Let's hope that your god does not preordain that you get a chronic attack of the shanks any time soon. You just might start to question his existence when you hit the ball at right-angles all day!

[SuperTruthlover]

I never shank and I have never had the flu.

We does God bless me more than others and why are others blessed more than me are answers given by God.

You seem to be asking why does God allow evil in the world. It that your queston?

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. The trouble is that these are questions that god seems not to want to answer. Not good enough for me.

Not quite SuperT, not evil exclusively. Although that word is not one that sits comfortably as it is so often misused. Just generally the suffering of random people, regardless of whether they are good or bad. I am suspect that we are about to hear the unsatisfactory phrase "God works in mysterious ways."

Again, not good enough for me.

[SuperTruthlover]

While there is much evil in the world, there is even more that is good.

We need also to recognize that our very minds were created by God. We can only use these minds to the extent that He allows, and it is, therefore, utterly presumptuous for us to use them to question Him and His motives.

"Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25).

"Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, why hast Thou made me thus?" (Romans 9:20).

[SeaTacAtheist]

@superT. Ahhh! And so we have it. You have been brainwashed into first thinking that our minds were created by god, and then because this is a such a ridiculous propostion with no evidence to back it up, you have also been brainwashed into not questioning it. Presumptuous of us to use our minds to ask questions? Dear oh dear, oh dear. That is a VERY telling statement from you and not at all edifying.

[SuperTruthlover]

Sea,

pain leads to God

The sufferings of unsaved men are often used by the Holy Spirit to cause them to realize their needs of salvation and to turn to Christ in repentance and faith. The sufferings of Christians should always be the means of developing a stronger dependence on God and a more Christ-like character, if they are properly exercised thereby (Hebrews 12:11).

Thus, God is loving and merciful even when, for the present, He allows trials and sufferings to come in our lives.

[SuperTruthlover]

SeaTac

Here is the argument summarized in short from:

evil implies good

good implies a perfect standard by which to define it

Now, if you believe that there exists real, objective evil in the world evil that any person from any place or time would agree is really evil then you are stuck with admitting that there must be a perfect standard of goodness also in existence, a moral law.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. We are getting once more into the realms of semantics and biblical interpretation. I don't put "good and evil" into such black and white definitions. In general, the moral laws of a society are derived from a mixture of common sense, consensus and what obviously benefits that society as a whole. And before we get into this discussion I should point out that the moral standards of the atheist section of our society is, on the whole, extremely high.

[SuperTruthlover]

Seatax.

I don't think you have done proper research to declare anything about the morals of Atheist. What standard would you use anyway. There is no objective standeard amoung atheists

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. I personally have conducted no studies into the morals of atheists, but there are many who have. It seems clear that the bigotry and general hatred instilled into many religious people, but not all, does not allow them to rank too highly on the moral stakes. Atheists are not perfect of course, but it does not mean that we can't have objective standards of right and wrong. Your particular gods morals and what Jesus went along with are agreed by many atheists to be quite sickening.

[SuperTruthlover]

but it does not mean that we can't have objective standards of right and wrong.

These come from God and that is the reason they are consistent all over the world. You have not read the whole bible and you don't have the holy spirit to guide you to the truth of the Scripture and yet you make moral judgements about God who created you. You don't seem qualified to comment on the character of God.

You pick a few cultural events in the bible you don't understand and then pass Judge on God. Fore

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. The objective morals of right and wrong shared by disparate peoples around the world certainly do NOT come from YOUR god, nor any of the many other gods past and present. Try reading an anthropology book.

I have access to your bible just the same as you and so I am equally qualified to make judgements about the mmoral standard of god. More so in fact because my opinion is not swayed or biased by belief in that god or anyone elses. Objective you could say.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. What on earth do you mean how do I decide who is good and bad? Of course it's my opinion and the parameters for making such judgements are pretty clear. I did not state that some people are perfect, but it is not difficult to see the difference between basically good people and intrinsically bad people. As atheists, we are free to form our own opinions.

I didn't say that god preordaining events on earth was a christian idea, just the logic that follows from the bible.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. So why do YOU feel that god has preordained that you enjoy a lovely day golfing yesterday whilst so many other good people suffer?

As for your last comment, when VanGogh refers to a catastrophe it could of course be a natural disaster like an earthquake or mudslide. I believe our insurance companies have an expression for such events, but it escapes me right now. Any ideas?

So 'poof' is used as slang for gay here in the US? I thought it was a distinctly British term.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. Your god is all-powerful AND all-knowing. Anything that happens has been 'predicted' and given the ok by him presumably. Proof? No I can't prove that an imaginary being is interfering in the world. Give us some evidence that he exists and I will give it a go though.

So I have said that you are not outwardly arrogant and it is true. But if you read VanGoghs comment this does require some explanation from a believer, because I sure have no answer for it.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT Oh yes. The great 'Free Will' get out clause. Conveniently ignoring the fact that nyour god has preordained everything that happens. So it is of course your incredibly cruel and unjust monster of a god that slaughters so many innocents. God supposedly gave us free will and therefore is responsible and in control all suffering in the world. Just another paradox which you, like so many before you, fail to answer. Because you have no answer.

Atheists want to do as they please? Says who?

[VanGoghsEar1890]

Only the Atheist finds it morally objectionable to thank his loving god for having survived a catastrophe while that same loving god slaughtered several others. What a perfect example of delusional arrogance. Super T you are in serious need of psychiatric help. Good luck. It will probably take years to deprogram you.

[SeaTacAtheist]

Hi VanGogh! Good to see you. But is it possible that a religionist can see the light in a moment of UNdivine inspiration? SuperT seems reasonably intelligent at times (although pretty dumb at others) and might just realise the nonsense he has come to believe in n instant. IHowever speedy his return to reality it will be a painful process. But a worthwhile one. Psychiatric help is available with copay though.

[SeaTacAtheist]

Where have SuperT's comments gone? Could it be that he has seen the light this very day and begun to delete all his posted drivel from YT. I have been debating with him for ages and then you come along with a comment, not even using your allotted 500 characters, and he has given up all of a sudden. Are you some sort of atheist messiah VanGogh?

[joethemoproductions]

Thanks for commenting on my video page.

I liked what you wrote in your "about me" area on your channel.

You may want to look at my "about me" area. It may give you a chuckle.

Thanks again,

Joe

[SeaTacAtheist]

@ SuperT. Well i am glad you had a great day golfing. Obviously you played pretty well. It was fairly mild in the Great PNW today and managed to get a practice session in myself. I wouldn't praise god for it though. Not until I have a reasonable explanation as to why all the good and innocent people in the world suffered so much today because of your god. Hardly seems fair.

I like the way you capitalize both the words 'God' AND 'Golf'. lol

[SeaTacAtheist]

Did we have to wait for cosmonauts to go into space before realising the earth was in fact a sphere? No. And you say MY comments were really dumb? Which ones exactly? Perhaps you have conveniently forgotten them. The atheistic arguments are way too strong for religionists to break down it seems.

As I have said before, the ONLY reason that you cannot accept the proven facts of evolution is because of religion. I know it and you know it. Genesis has been destroyed. Now that's a fact my friend.

[SuperTruthlover]

The bible said the earth like a ball as there is no Hebrew word for Sphere. No Hebrew cuss words either. I don't think foul words are acceptable to God.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. I think actually that the bible stated that the earth was like a circle, not a ball. Which if you go to the top of a tower or hill and look around you at the horizon, is pretty much the impression you will get. It seems unlikely that the people who wrote the bible would know anything about space and the earths place in the cocmos when they got so much science horrendously wrong.

By the way, there is no atheist dogma as I am sure you well know. It's just the non-belief in a god/gods.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. Oh right. So what you are saying is that until mankind invents a time machine and goes back to observe evolution actually taking place by presumably jumping periodically from era to era, then we all might as well give up on the whole idea of learning anything from the earths history? Silly boy. I think biology, geology and other sciences have advanced beyond what you are capable of understanding. Did dinosaurs roam the planet? We've never seen one.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. You have yet to come up with any arguments that survive scrutiny as to why the fact of evolution is not so. I am not generally intolerant of people that don't agree with me, but blatant denial of facts for an ulterior motive (god), for which you offer up no credible defence, is not something to respect or admire. If all the people who thought like you were to have all the power they desired, this would indeed be a terrible world in which to live. Christian 'Taliban' is not inaccurate.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. I don't think it was this comments page where I called you an overgrown muppet actually. But anyway, no matter.

I am struggling to think of a more friendly, harmless and less hateful name to call somebody in a moment of exasperation than 'overgrown muppet'.

As a believer in the bible, I think your attitude and opinion of women, gay people, non-believers and slaves, is an infinitely worse insult. Don't you?

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. I will leave it to Joe to educate you on the many issues that you are evidently confused about. You consistently ignore our debate-winning retorts and then change the subject. After a suitable gap you then regurgitate the points on which we have already had you stumped. This is desperate stuff from you and getting rather old.

I see you have been deleting the best thing about your channel. My comments. To quote Christopher Hitchens, that is something up with which I will not put.

[SuperTruthlover]

Seatac

You have been measured and you have been weighed and you have been from ARROUGANT

You think way too highly of your self dude. The best thing about my channel is you. Come on how do people not hit you in the face everyday?

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. So you have fallen into my little trap. Not that sophisticated a trap I admit, but then with irrational thinkers it does not really have to be that clever. Either you believe that the bible is the word of god, or you don't. If you do truly believe it then you must share all the attitudes and opinions I stated, or at the very least go along with them, otherwise you are accusing the 'truth' of the bible as wrong. In which case, of course, you will be joining me and Joe in hell.

[SeaTacAtheist]

@SuperT. If you fail to break down my arguments or offer any arguments of your own that are not easily broken down themselves, that hardly makes me arrogant.

Once again you pick up on an offhand quip, like me saying that my comments were the best thing on your channel, and completely ignore the main thrust of the point I made. That point being that you are deleting my comments.

And I do not think too highly of myself. I am actually TWICE as good as I think I am.

[joethemoproductions]

STL, biologists use the fossil record to show change over time. Fossils showing fish to amphibians have been found just where they were to be expected, demonstrating the predictive qualities of evolution.

If you can't use science correctly, don't post on my channel. I'm bored to frustration by the habit of the christian taliban to dissembling, lying, and misrepresenting science.

Your sophistry is not welcome; if you can make an honest statement, please do. Otherwise, bugger off.

[joethemoproductions]

Intelligent Design (id) has been thoroughly discredited. Its main concept, irreducible complexity (ir), has also been discredited.

IR, when applied to a god, becomes very interesting. A god is irreducibly complex. It must have been created. That god then needed a creator. By using id, the number of gods goes on ad infinitum.

The religious attempt to annul this by stating that god always existed. However, one may not extract the explanation (a god) from the theory (id).

[SeaTacAtheist]

@dubvishun. You said of Leonardo da Vinci that he was "holdin a football bat swinging for 3 dollar bills...". Is this a historical fact, an American sporting term I am not aware of, or a euphemism for some gay activity of which I am also unaware?

I think I should be told.

[dubvishun]

oh yea...leo wasnt gay...if anthing he may or may not have laid with men...but he was NOT a happy oddball, holdin a football bat swinging for 3 dollar bills...pink triangle boys sent here just after ww2 to help along the ANTi-sickness we see today..but only<---ONLY..after media control.. whos the product?...hummm..pride. oh yea, and i hate ThEE besT..got my pride vaintiy weapon loaded always aimed at the each...small spiny crumbs helping the hipocracy on both sides..no1 can swallow mine. nEvEr

[SeaTacAtheist]

@dubvishun. This is truly a terrible world to be born into if you are burdened with being straight isn't it? I sympathise. My life has been one long struggle against bigotry, hatred and oppression since my first heterosexual encounter. Oh no, wait a minute. That's right, I remember now. NOT being gay has had absolutely no detrimental effect on my life whatsoever. I just learned to accept it and after that I concentrated on my own sexuality and not other peoples. I suggest you do the same.

[dubvishun]

leo wasnt gay, but destitute longing for freedom exploited mind engineering wonders..regardless; Gods NO respector of men...as most will not make it to heaven..especially those men who lay with other men..wait die 'n see. stretchin for hell hopefully will get to take that gander at all those 'shocked" screamin 'n knashing as i descend.. these men..who know its wrong & lay with other men only to SPITE God 'cause they worship saTan. while they laugh at the willing ignorant mass they spawned. VoTe

[joethemoproductions]

The evidence about Leonardo being gay is overwhelming, beginning with an arrest for it when he was quite young. Then there were the erotic drawing of cocks. Then there was the fact that he never mentions affairs with women.

What is it with you christians. You bring stupidity and viciousness to level that is almost inconceivable. Your kind are the greatest threat to democracy because you won't be satisfied until we live in a theocracy.

By the way, a grammar book would do you well.

[dubvishun]

overwhelming evidence<--"i just gotta dig up some kinda famous somebody to rationalize my ...{laying with men} nasttiness - <--..and salvation is strict..conditioanl..those who think to be saved will not make it..few will. so all the rest arent considered & as for a comparison for a christian..with the abundant ignorance & that term thrown 'round somewhat defines satan as christian..as he has deeper faith..wait die 'n see, ill be in hell while u will be there shocked..but still without excuse

[joethemoproductions]

This is an excerpt from an email dubvishun sent. I love it when we get to see the christian soul:

so, itll only get worse from here...and yes i allowed that first reply to post..sure enuf the grammer rebut...go be a fag..die and se...just hope i was somewhat unorthodox to stick in memory so when death becomes ..i got some sorta piece of mind....

now, on with yer biased drama..leave me outta it...go be right in that wrong world which was the nazi gift..jesuits say check mate. ignoramous.

[joethemoproductions]

I wonder if dubvishun understands irony enough to see it in his comment about an ignoramus.

My money is on that he doesn't. I bet however he'll feel a little uncomfortable because he will suspect he is being made fun of.

[joethemoproductions]

By the way, I smell a closet here. I wonder if he is constantly fighting a gay attraction.

It is the shrillness that cued me in.

dubvishun: i suggest you find a guy, or in the tradition of Ted Haggard, hire a guy, and have some fun.

[joethemoproductions]

This, indeed, raises a question I've pondered every now and again: does christianity attract stupid, vicious people or does it make people stupid and vicious.

I think it must attract the stupid and the vicious and then make them dumber and meaner.

[ChinoBlanco]

Oh c'mon, have you ever tried flying in one of Leonardo's helicopters? Total deathtrap. Great vid!

[SFHarry]

Excellent! Needs to be heard.

[harris3810]

Haha, I see you did just what I was writing about in that message!

A lot of people are about to get that Luke Skywalker look:

"NOOOOO! It isn't true!"