John Calvin said Certainty is Uncertainty in his Institutes

[TeeJbax29]

I'm glad you are here to correct this ancient theologians misguidedness... Now if you could only reach the hundreds of thousands of people Calvin has helped strengthen their faith through his teachings... By the way how many people have you helped increase there faith? Thank God for Christians like you who will help us divide against other Christians..

[FollowTheCloud]

everyone should do themselves a favor and never pay any attention to andrew bain at all. arguing with him encourages him, its the fuel to his fire, dissension is the reason his ministry exists.(romans 16:17) tells us to stay away from these type of people "such people are not serving the Lord but their own appetite.he has been doing this for a long time and he has been warned many times.he is not gonna repent for his ministry.may God help him.just pray for andrew theirs nothing more we can do

[daveme7]

On quite a bit there is much that could be seen as not being certain. In fact, certainty is the antethesis of faith. Paul taught we are saved by hope, but that which we can see is not hope. Of course, seeing that the Spirit makes intercession for us when we do not know that which we should pray for. Romans 8:19-27 is where many of these ideas are drawn from(500 charachters does not give much room to quote verses.)

[daveme7]

Really? Why does Christ condemn others for denying the Lord and other people who affirm rejecting Christ are saved-so what is this? Why did you not bring any of this up to John Calvin when he wrote this? 2 Tim. 2:12-13 n9is a good place to start. Yes, I know none of us were alive when he wrote his institutes but to clarify a point-accusing a person who is now dead-the most sure thing is that when one debates somene alive-you will always win.

[doctorh2005]

PART 2:

The question is,, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO WITH THE FLESH?

Are you just going to surrender to it and stray away from Christ luke-warmly???, or are you going to fight and CRY OUT TO GOD to give you grace? Are you actually HUNGERING for God? Are you actually LONGING to become anew in your heart?

Do you HATE your sin? Are you crying out to God to give you that hatred for sin and a love for obeying Him?

If so, there are at least some SEEDS of repentance.

See 2 Corinthians 7:10-11

[doctorh2005]

Hey I've read the Institutes. Its a great book. Calvin is right to maintain certainty AND uncertainty at the same time...depending on the context...

Consider Romans 7 as the context...

When we become converted, we are certain IN OUR INNER BEING (prompted by the Spirit within us) that we are saved.

However, there is still that evil part of us, the FLESH, that sometimes rises up, quivering inside us, trying to assail and convince us otherwise...

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Rom 7:14-25 is not the Christian experience--Roman s 6 and 8 portray that. Like Finney said, whoever finds their experience in rom 7 is either backslid or was never saved.

No surprise that Calvin contradicts himself--he did it often and his defenders have done so even more often and absurdly for 500 years. Calvinism is utterly false

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Like Finney said ///

Finney would say that because he's an ARMINIAN and NEO-DONATIST.

He's probably a perfectionist aswell.

Are you telling me that a Christian can be perfect in this life?

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Neo-donatist? That's a new one the Calvies have come up with to slander one of the greatest soul-winners that ever lived, something Calvin never bothered with, seeing he was more interested in establishing a dictatorship in Geneva and settleling scores with "heretics".

[Providential1611]

@Providential1611 Your question is framed incorrectly. What does Romans 6 and 8 teach us about the Christian life? Start there and we can continue. But I have a question--Are we told to put on the whole armor of God so we can fall all the time, or to stand, and after having DONE ALL, to stand? What saith the Scripture about that?

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Are we told to put on the whole armor of God so we can fall all the time, or to stand ///

Are you suggesting that a Christian ALWAYS stands?? lol.

1JOHN1:8-10 and 2:1 contradict that.

Do you deny there is a war between the Spirit and the flesh? (GALATIANS 5:17 clearly refute that)

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 You are avoiding Eph 6. Why? What does it teach? It teaches that which you just balked at--how to stand and not fall! In 2Peter we are told what to do so that we will, and I quote--"NEVER FALL". You have a problem with apostolic doctrine. You are full of unbelief and are confortable with sin in your life. How sad. Why did Paul say we are DEAD TO SIN AND FREE FROM SIN-Rom. 6???

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// how to stand and not fall! //

But no Christian NEVER falls.

/// 2Peter we are told what to do so that we will, and I quote--"NEVER FALL" ///

Thats not talking about leading holy lives! Thats talking about assurance of SALVATION. Again - 1JOHN 1:8 contradicts that.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Yes 2peter is talking about holiness, without which no man will see the Lord. Are you telling me that if a person does what peter said and has all those traits, he isn't holy? You need to put down the books and spend a year in just the Scriptures. The Holy Ghost can teach you what men sought to deceive you about

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// 2peter is talking about holiness, without which no man will see the Lord ///

Actually HEBREWS 12:14 mentions that - not 2Peter.

Also the Christian can do NOTHING unless God has granted it.

God has decided to sanctify in a GRADUAL PROCESS - 2 CORINTH 3:18

Its NOT about perfection, but it is about DIRECTION - a DIRECTION of holiness - which is only brought about by the Holy Spirit working in a man "both to WILL and TO DO" (PHIL 2:13)

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 NOWHERE does the NT teach that sanctification is gradual. It is as instantanious as justification. We are sanctified by faith-Acts 15:9.

Provide the verse that says sanctification is GRADUAL. Prove it.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// NOWHERE does the NT teach that sanctification is gradual ///

2 CORINTHIANS 3:18...

"And we all are being transformed... FROM ONE DEGREE OF GLORY TO ANOTHER"

;-)

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Nothing about sanctification there. Its talking about the glory of the Old Covenant compared to the New. Nice try though. Context almost always explodes Calvinist proof-texting

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Its talking about the glory of the Old Covenant compared to the New ///

Yes. And that verse is talking about being TRANSFORMED into the image of Christ... and that process is Sanctification.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// ACTS 15:9 ///

"having CLEANSED their hearts"

(a) from the guilt of sin - see HEBREWS 9:14

(b) a changing of the heart itself - see EZEKIEL 36:26-27

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// You are full of unbelief and are confortable with sin in your life ///

Now you're judging me when you dont even know me. How do you even KNOW that I'm "comfortable" with sin in my life??

You think you're a good person???

[Providential1611]

Your antinomian doctrine breeds it, as I havepersonally seen and is revealed in history as well. No, I do not "think" I am a good person, I was EVIL but I am a new creation and all things have passed away, all things have become new. I have a new heart and a new spirit from God, I am a partaker of the divine nature-2peter 1:3.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

Calvin taught 3 Uses for the Law (with many subsections)...

(1) To show us God's righteous standard, being a SCHOOLMASTER to lead us to Christ

(2) To convict men of sin

(3) To daily enable believers to learn with greater certainty what the will of the Lord is.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// I am a partaker of the divine nature-2peter 1:3. ///

So now you're a GOOD person then? (since you say you WAS evil - past tense).

[NB3K]

@Providential1611 So why do you "freely" sin? Do you say you are without sin? Because if you say you are without sin the truth is not in you. I know you freelly sin because I sin freely. I don't even know if I even greive the way I ought to over my sin. But I know ONE THING FOR SURE AND IT IS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!!!!

[NB3K]

@Providential1611

Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Do you see what Paul is saying here. This is my Faith right here. I am not working after a righteousness that is built on how I live this live, but my hope is in the God who will justify me even though I am guilty before him. SOLA FIDE SOLA FIDE SOLA FIDE!!!

[NB3K]

@Providential1611

Faith is all that we need. Christ has supplied for us the works. The works in his life, the works in his death, and the life he has in the work of his ressurection will be enough works for anyone. Paul says in acts:

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY FAITH IN GOD

[NB3K]

@Providential1611

The message of Luther & Calvin was simply this

Everything that is required & needed to obtain salvation is in Christ alone. Outside of Christ there is no favor. Outside of Christ all there is is death and destruction. Wrath abides on every human that is outside of Christ. and one day the heavenly Father will uproot every plant that he has not planted [THE REPROBATES] If we are in Christ it is because we have been planted in His vineyard By the Heavenly Father!

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Are you saying the New birtth doesn't cleanse and change a man? Are you saying believers are not good now that the good one and the good nature abides within us? Are you saying sin IS STRONGER THAN GOD?

Be honest and answer YES, for that is what you believe. All that Christ did on the Cross, and all God does within us is NOT ENOUGH to conquer sin--admit it!

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Are you saying believers are not good now ///

Christ said "NOONE (in and of himself) is good, but God alone."

While we are still in this body, we are all "wretched" (ROM.7:24) and "vile" (PHIL.3:21).

God SEES us as perfect, but we are NOT YET perfect - we still have the flesh, which is a "body of death" - ROM.7:24

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// that the good one and the good nature abides within us? ///

1PETER 2:11

"...the passions of the flesh, which wage war against you soul"

JAMES 4:1

"your passions are at war within your members"

ROMANS 7:23

"this body of death"

ROMANS 7:25

"I serve the law of God with my mind, BUT WITH MY FLESH I serve the law of sin." ROM.7:14-25

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Are you saying sin IS STRONGER THAN GOD?///

Nope. God has decided to let us still have our flesh, so that when get FULL OF PRIDE thinking "OH WHAT A PERFECT PERSON I AM!", He withdraws His Spirit from us, to humble us - even if that means falling into sin for a time (notice i didnt say DIVING) - only the unregenerate man DIVES into sin. But the true convert sins AGAINST his will, and he GRIEVES because of it afterwards.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// all God does within us is NOT ENOUGH to conquer sin ///

God's elect, upon regeneration, are given faith to believe and granted repentance, and are then given the Spirit, Who gradually transforms them, giving them new desires - God has chosen to use a gradual process of refining us - not all at once, lest we become full of pride.

God uses the sin-NATURE (flesh) as a TOOL/MEANS of humbling us and to cause us to cling to Him.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 You couldn't prove your asserts if your life depended on it! God doesn't use sin to keep us humble! What a wicked lie. The body of sin is DEAD AND DESTROYED, CRUCIFIED, and we are aliove to God an righteousness now-Romans 6. Rom 7 is about Paul's life under the law, enlightened by it, his conscience enlightened by it, but unable to obey. God uses HIS SPIRIT top humble us, His Word. 

[Providential1611]

@Providential1611 Christ is the author and finisher of our faith, not sin! Sin will DESTROY our walk and our faith in God. Amazing how Calvinistic you still are. In Calvinism, sin and the devil are God's friends who work for Him. In the Bible, they are enemies opposed to each other always. I suggest you study the writings of Wesley, Finney and the early methodists.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Christ is the author and finisher of our faith, not sin! ///

We are the IMMEDIATE causes of sin (and therefore held respsonsible), but God is the ULTIMATE sovereign cause of all things - because before GEN.1:1, He DECREED/FOREORDAINED everything that was to come to pass.

God doesnt create sin itself - He simply withdraws His light/guidance from us, and all that is left is DARKNESS (on our part).

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Nowhere does the Bible say God decreed and foreordained everything that will come to pass. Idiotic creeds that men wrote say that blasphmey, but the Bible does not. Most things that happen are AGAINST GOD'S WILL, so much so that God REGRETTED even making man to begin with and judged the old world-Gen 6. That God decreed everything that comes to pass is just another Calvinist myth of blasphemy.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Nowhere does the Bible say God decreed and foreordained everything that will come to pass.///

Ephesians 1:11 - God "brings about" all things according to the counsel of His WILL.

Acts 2:23 - God decreed/planned before the foundation of the world to send His Son into the world (Rev.13:8). If He decreed that, then He decreed everything else that has happened.

He's decreed the end from the beginning.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Idiotic creeds that men wrote ///

So you DO recognise that I'm not alone in telling this? Why not go ask them then? Do some research. I'll buy you Calvin's Institutes if you want.

/// Most things that happen are AGAINST GOD'S WILL, ///

Like what?

Maybe against His REVEALED WILL (i.e. His written commandments), but certainly not against His PROVIDENTIAL/SECRET WILL.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// God REGRETTED even making man to begin with ///

By your definition of God, you say He's WEAK, to be overpowered by mere man.

Only an ATHEIST would believe such a thing.

God never ultimately regrets anything.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Sin will DESTROY our walk and our faith in God. ///

No it won't. Only to FALSE CONVERTS does it do that. But to God's ELECT, when they sin, they grieve and are compelled to REPENT and RETURN TO GOD.

God uses the flesh to keep us curbed from pride in this lifetime. But oneday He will no longer choose to do that - because "we will be like Him" (1JN.3:2)

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 No He doesn't. Our old man is dead and crucified. We are kept from pride by simply abiding in Christ and in the Scriptures, and in prayer. Sin is destructive. Sin is not our friend nor a means of sanctification! Only a Calvinist would posit such blasphmous heresy. Calvinis PROMOTES SIN. Calvinism is a lie and destroys sanctification and holiness by the very things you teach. Calvinism is 666.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Our old man is dead and crucified. ///

So what causes a Christian to sin then? What causes them to sin if not the flesh? I gave you plenty of texts to prove otherwise.

No Christian is perfect - sin comes from the passions of the flesh - so the flesh is still there my friend

We are dead as to the PENALTY and PUNISHMENT of sin - but we are being progressively sanctified every day, from glory to glory.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Sin is not our friend nor a means of sanctification! ///

It can be...

When we get proud, God temporarily removes His light from us so that we fall in order that we repent and return to Him in humility.

/// Only a Calvinist would posit such blasphmous heresy.///

If you want to debate Calvinism, I'm fine with that.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Calvinism is a lie and destroys sanctification and holiness by the very things you teach. ///

Do you want me to buy you a copy of Calvin's Institutes and post it to you? I'm up for that - providing you read it.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Amazing how Calvinistic you still are ///

I choose to use the words "Reformed" or simply "Biblical"

/// In Calvinism, sin and the devil are God's friends who work for Him.///

Thats not true. Have you actually READ Calvin's Institutes???

God certainly USES Satan and sin to accomplish His eternal plan/decree, but in no way are they "FRIENDS"??? What part of Calvin's book did you get that from?

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// In Calvinism, sin and the devil are God's friends who work for Him ///

They certainly "work" for Him.

Go and read JUDGES.9:23 1KINGS.22:19-23, 1SAM.16:14, EZEK.14:9, JER.4:10, 2THESS.2:11

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// I suggest you study the writings of Wesley, Finney and the early methodists. ///

I respect your suggestion (and I do read some of their quotes, since they are really good), but Arminianism is flawed in many places, mostly due to lack of understanding or mis-information.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// God doesn't use sin to keep us humble! ///

ISAIAH 63:17

"O LORD, why do You make us wander from Your ways and harden our heart, so that we fear You not?"

2COR.12:7 (one interpretation)

"So to keep me from being too elated by the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me to keep me from being too elated."

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// God doesn't use sin to keep us humble! ///

Also the fact that God has PRE-ORDAINED every single move we make, and controls/providentially directs the wills of men. - JER.10:23, PSALM 33:13-15, PROV.16:1, 20:24, 21:1, EZRA 6:22, EZEK.14:9, EXOD.4:11, GEN.20:6

He withdraws His light from us when we get proud, so that we stumble and are then compelled to call out to Him.

He is SOVEREIGN.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// What a wicked lie. ///

God has the freedom to do whatsoever He likes with His creatures. There is no law that says otherwise.

/// The body of sin is DEAD AND DESTROYED, CRUCIFIED ///

...as regarding our PENALTY and PUNISHMENT (because Christ paid for them completely) - but we are still left with a sinful FLESH - as ROMANS 7:15-25, 1PET.2:11, GAL.5:17, and JAMES 4:1 all talk about.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// and we are aliove to God an righteousness now-Romans 6 ///

We are born again, with new hearts and new desires (EZEK.36:26-27), but what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that WHEN HE APPEARS we shall be like Him (1JN.3:2)

We are alive to righteousness now because we WANT to serve the Law (7:22,25) - whereas before we were regenerated, we HATED God and His Law (JN.3:19-20) - but the flesh is still at war with us to keep us from being too elated/proud.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Holiness and victory over sin does not breed pride, but peace and joy in the Holy Ghost--something the Calvinist, due to his heresies, cannot experience because he is taught that SIN will sanctify Him rather than the Holy Ghost and His power.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// victory over sin does not breed pride ///

It most certainly CAN - when satan or your flesh says to you "you've done a good job mate, you're INVINCIBLE now!", you're natural tendency is sometimes to take the credit for yourself.

Noone is at that stage of perfection - not ever Christians, in this lifetime at least

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Rom 7 is about Paul's life under the law ///

Paul was TAUGHT the Law, but the Word of God says that we, in and of ourselves, HATE the Law - contrary to ROM.7:22.

The Law is a LIGHT (Prov.6:23).... (CONTINUED)...

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

(CONTINUED)...

People love the darkness - [contrary to ROM.7:15,19,24] rather than the LIGHT (the Law) because their deeds (springing from a corrupt nature) are evil. For everyone who does wicked things HATES THE LIGHT [contrary to ROM.7:22], and DOES NOT COME to the light, lest their deeds should be exposed.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Why did Paul say we are DEAD TO SIN AND FREE FROM SIN-Rom. 6 ///

We are free from the GUILT and CONDEMNATION of sin - ROM.8:1 (justification) - but we still have the sinful nature, and are being renewed day by day - 2 COR.3:18 (sanctification).

Sanctification is a process - while implies that noone will be without sin in this present life.

There is an endless war till we see Christ.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Wrong. The issue in Romans 6 and 8 IS THE "SINFUL NATURE", the flesh, the body of sin, and Paul said we are DEAD TO SIN, CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, THAT THE BODY IF SIN IS DESTROYED, FREE FROM SIN, ETC. The guilt of sin was dealt with in Romans 3. You are guilty of serious wresting of the Scripture

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// The issue in Romans 6 and 8 ///

And you are guilty of denying the perpetual war between the flesh and the Spirit mentioned in Romans 7 and Galatians 5:17.

Also JAMES 3:2 says that not even CHRISTIANS are perfect.

1 JOHN1:8 and 2:1 say the same.

You're gonna be in big trouble when you stand before the Lord on this.

If I were you, I would quickly think before teaching on youtube.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Actually 1Jn 2:1 says IF one sins--meaning it is possible but not neccesary, you read it as WHEN--inevitable. Once again you PERVERT the words of the liviing God to support your security-in -sin doctrine. Your doctrine promotes sin and endues it with power greater than God! 1Jn 1:8 is talking about those who deny they have GUILT to repent of--and there were those in gnostic circles, which is what John wrote against.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

///1Jn 2:1 says IF one sins--meaning it is possible but not neccesary,///

The Greek word "if" can also be translated "WHEN"

/// 1Jn 1:8 is talking about those who deny they have GUILT to repent of--and there were those in gnostic circles, which is what John wrote against ///

NO. This verse is addressing CHRISTIANS - as the whole letter is written to BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS.

Verse 10 even says "If we say 'we have not SINNED'"

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

There isnt a moment of any particular day when you have not sinned!! It is only because Christ is shielding you and because the Spirit is gradually sanctifying you that God SEES you as already perfect.

But in and of yourself, you are still a sinner.

Read the Lord's Prayer - give us our "DAILY" bread... FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES. You sin on a daily basis - but if ur a Christian, it will be AGAINST your will.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// possible but not neccesary ///

What has "being necessary" got to do with ANYTHING??

JAMES 3:2 says

"WE ALL stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble...he is a perfect man"

Now compare with PHILIPPIANS 3:12...

"Not that I have ALREADY obtained this or am ALREADY perfect, but I press on to make it my own,"

See? Not even PAUL was "perfect" as James said.

Its not about perfection, but it is about DIRECTION.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Ig you want to live under the law and be severed from Christ and fall from grace(context of Galatians 5)there will be a war. But Paul said we can, by the Spirit PUT TO DEATH the deeds of the flesh-Rom 8, and he said he was CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST. If we walk in the Spirit, we will NOT FULFIL the lusts of the flesh. Dare you deny these plain statements?

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

///Dare you deny these plain statements?///

I'm denying your false assumption that someone can be perfect in this lifetime.

I deny your false interpretation of ROMANS 7 - which clearly talks about the Christian warring with the flesh!

No Christian is perfect in this lifetime, but he will DESIRE to be.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

REPENT

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 No, your interpretation is wrong, as a reading of THE CONTEXT, which is chapters 6-8 as a whole, proves. Your view creates a contradiction, hence we KNOW IT IS FALSE. You are avoiding chapters 6 and 8 like the plague, it seems.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// one of the greatest soul-winners that ever lived ///

Excuse me??? WHO is the one who wins souls???

Thats a very arrogant statement.

NONE BUT GOD "wins/saves" souls. NONE.

/// he was more interested in establishing a dictatorship in Geneva ///

Google search "Genetic Fallacy" - coz u've just commited it.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005

Wrong, as usual. Calvinists always are. Proverbs, speaking of men, says that he that winneth souls is wise. Paul told Timothy how to "save yourself and them that hear you"1Tim 4:16. Peter todl the Jews how to "save yourselves"-Acts 2:40.

Your problem is you are a monergist, but the Bible CLEARLY TEACHES SYNERGISM. So as long as you hold to that error, you canb't think Biblically. Sad

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Proverbs, speaking of men, says that he that winneth souls is wise. ///

That verse isnt even TALKING about saving people.

What does 1CORINTHIANS 3:6-8 say?

GOD does the winning.

What does 1CORINTHIANS 15:10 say?

In COLOSSIANS 2:19, where does the growth come from?

In GALATIANS 3:3, who begins it...the preacher or the Spirit?

In HEB.12:2, who is the author and finisher of our faith?

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// "save yourself and them that hear you" ///

1Tim4:16 and Acts 2:40 simply declare that if they continue in this path, they will be SHOWN to be heading in the direction of salvation - EXACLTY the same as 2PET.1:10.

Look at JOHN 6:44..

NOONE comes unless the Father DRAW (drag) him.

ACTS13:48...

"as many as were appointed to eternal life believed"

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Wrong. TIMOTHY was not "on the path", he was not only a Christian, but a leader and apostolic protege. he was told what to do to SAVE HIMSELF and the people under his preaching. Very simple.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// TIMOTHY was not "on the path" ///

A pastor is said to "save himself", when, by faithfully discharging the office committed to him, he serves his calling; not only because he avoids that terrible vengeance which the Lord threatens by Ezekiel, — His blood will I require at thy hand, (Ezekiel 33:8,) but because it is customary to speak of believers as PERFORMING their salvation when they walk and persevere in the course of their salvation - see PHIL.2:12-13

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Well then your earlier objection that men cannot save themselves in any sense is WRONG. Your comment proves this, but I suspect you are quoting someone.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// the Bible CLEARLY TEACHES SYNERGISM. ///

Sorry, but Jonah 2:9 clearly says..

"Salvation is OF THE LORD"

NOT

"of the Lord, AND the cooperation of man's free will"

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 That verse posits from where salvation ORIGINATES, not whether or not men ought to receive that which comes from God. Once again, you cite irrelevant verses and TWIST THEM

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// That verse ///

I would greatly appreciate if you put my quotations above, as I havent a CLUE which verse you are talking about.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// the Bible CLEARLY TEACHES SYNERGISM. ///

Sorry, but JOHN 1:13 says

"who were born...NOT OF THE WILL OF MAN, but OF GOD"

and NOT

"who were born of God, AND the will of man"

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// the Bible CLEARLY TEACHES SYNERGISM.///

Sorry, but JOHN 10:26 says

"you do not believe BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT PART OF MY FLOCK"

and NOT

"you are not part of My flock BECAUSE YOU DO NO BELIEVE"

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 You ignored the texts I cited, which address your objection directly, to a verse that is irrelevant and does not address the point. Classic Calvinist proof-texting! Paul and Peter said men CAN "save" themselves and others. and Proverbs says that a wise man wins souls. Sol your objection to this idea is wrong. SUBMIT TO THE WORD OF GOD. Men win souls!

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// to a verse that is irrelevant and does not address the point. ///

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Scripture MUST NOT contradict Scripture. You seem to throw all your lot onto just those verses that suit your man-centred ideology. I just pointed out that there are MANY verses that clearly contradict it - automatically making it invalid (false).

I did no wrong.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Paul and Peter said men CAN "save" themselves and others ///

Did they now??

Sorry, but nowhere in Scripture does it say that man "CAN" do anything apart from God.

On the Contrary... Christ Himself said "Without Me, YOU CAN DO 'NOTHING' (JOHN 15:5)

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// men CAN "save" themselves ///

Do you have JOHN 6:44 and 65 registered in your databanks?

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Sure they have, but they haven't registered on yours. You see, if CANNOT is absolute, as Calvies claim, then lets see how consistent and HONEST you are. The same writer used the same word the same where somewhere else. Does it mean the same thing? 1Jn 3:9 says believers do not sin and CANNOT SIN! LOL!

[Providential1611]

@Providential1611 So you prove TOO MUCH.  If cannot means total inability to come to God in John 6, then it surely means total inability in 1John 3. So will you be honest and consistent in your hermeneutics, or will you "interpret" cannot in 1John 3 to fit whatever you believe? For you surely DO NOT BELIEVE JOHN when he said those born of God CANNOT SIN.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Men win souls ///

I would be VERY careful you do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit (who regenerates our hearts to faith and repentance Himself) by that remark.

ACTS 16:14 intimates that UNLESS GOD FIRST OPENED LYDIA'S HEART SHE NEVER WOULD HAVE EVEN "HEEDED" GOSPEL, LET ALONE "BELIEVE".

Its a work of God from Beginning to End. The preacher is merely the instrument.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Wrong as usual. Faith precedes the new birth. Calvinism teaches the born-again-before-faith heresy.

Calvinism is blasphemy,. byu the way, as it puts all evil, sin and the destruction of men's souls upon God. Besides, if I am saved, and I did committ the horrible sin you warn of--would it matter. Once saved always saved!

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Faith precedes the new birth ///

I've done a video on this - go watch it.

ACTS 16:14 is CLEAR proof that regeneration comes before faith.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 No it is not, as it DOES NOT SAY THAT. John 1:12-13 proves that those who receive Christ are given power to become sons of God and are then born of God. PERIOD.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// those who receive Christ ///

They cant even "receive" Christ unless they have saving FAITH...

And FAITH and REPENTANCE are GIFTS from God to begin with.

They do not originate in the natural man.

The natural man is DEAD in sin - and what can a DEAD person DO?? (nothing)

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// it puts all evil, sin and the destruction of men's souls upon God ///

God is the ULTIMATE cause of all things, but He is not always the IMMEDIATE cause of all things.

MAN is the IMMEDIATE cause of sin.

God is simply the one Who DECREED it.

/// if I am saved, and I did committ the horrible sin you warn of ///

You wouldnt be saved to begin with if you did it.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 That is kind of like saying that the man is the ultimate cause of a murder, but the gun he used was the immediate, and so the man is really not guilty of murder.

Christ said satan is the father of lies--that means he brought lying into existence--he is the originator and cause. God had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT IN ANY WAY

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// he brought lying into existence--he is the originator and cause. ///

Nope.

Christ said the HUMAN HEART is the originater of sin - MATT 15:19

The HUMAN HEART is deceitfully wicked above all things - JER.17:9

/// God had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT IN ANY WAY ///

Explain Isaiah 63:17 and Exodus 4:11

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// That is kind of like saying that the man is the ultimate cause of a murder, but the gun he used was the immediate, and so the man is really not guilty of murder.///

Funny.

The gun is not a living sentient being.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// settleling scores with "heretics" ///

Thats coz "heretics" are enemies of the truth, and must be stopped.

Jude 3 CLEARLY states that.

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Really? With knives, swords and fire? IS that what Jude taught---TO KILL HERETICS? Your appeal to verses to somehow justify Calvin's satanic behavior is pathetic. We are to LOVE OUR ENEMIES, not kill them. Do you agree with that YES OR NO? The Calvinist dodges these questions all the time

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// With knives, swords and fire? ///

Firstly, you didnt even MENTION "knives swords and fire". So my point is still right.

Secondly, by mentioning that, Google search "GENETIC FALLACY" - coz u just commited that.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// The Calvinist dodges these questions all the time ///

I think the answer is obvious.

But bear in mind, that NOONE's lifestyle can negate/affect truth (thats the Genetic Fallacy).

What Calvin did/did not do in his life, has NO bearings on the 5 points NOR on Scripture (which teaches them).

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 You are wrong. Christ said that a bad tree CANNOT bring forth good fruit. There is NO WAY a man in darkness, hate and murder could see the truths about something you claim the natural man cannot understand or receive! Calvin was a textbook carnal mind, natural man. Are you saying such a man understood soteriology, and better than most others???

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Christ said that a bad tree CANNOT bring forth good fruit ///

...which is PERFECT evidence for the 1st point of Calvinism - Total Depravity - that all men, in and of themselves are radically depraved by sin, God-hating, and BY NECESSITY (their very NATURE) cannot come to God, because they simply WILL NOT come to Him.

The only reason they will come to God is if He DRAGS/CAUSES them to come to Him - see JOHN6:44 and EZEKIEL 36:26-27.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Christ said that a bad tree CANNOT bring forth good fruit ///

And likewise, a GOOD tree CANNOT bear bad fruit, because God is CAUSING/MAKING them walk in His statutes - for proof, see EZEKIEL 36:26-27 and PHIL.2:13

/// you claim the natural man cannot understand or receive! ///

He can understand it intellectually, but he doesnt have the ability to APPLY it - thats the job of THE SPIRIT alone.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Are you saying such a man understood soteriology, ///

Yes.

/// better than most others ///

The Reformed position is the only true position.

Calvin's Institutes are the most thorough textbook on Reformed Theology you will probably find to date.

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// settleling scores with "heretics" ///

TITUS 1:11 also tells us to refute heretics

[Providential1611]

@doctorh2005 Yes it says to admonish them twice, and then to LEAVE THEM ALONE, not murder them, like Calvin did. The central theme of the New testament is LOVE. We are to love God supremely and love our neighbor as ourselves. We are to love good men, sinners, heretics and all. Paul also said there are times to speak kindly to the deceived in the hopes that this approach will lead them to repentance

[Providential1611]

Calvin believed, because he sat at the feet of that heretic Augustine, that hereticsd ought to be punished in civil court, and if one dared insult Calvin, like J. Gruet did, then he ought to be tortured for 30 days, until he confesses and recants, and then killed for good measure, which is what Calvin did! Where is the LOVE OF GOD in all these evil things Calvin did? Calvin was a HATEFUL, VENGEFUL, SPITEFUL MURDERER. His demented doctrines reveal his demented heart and mind

[doctorh2005]

@Providential1611

/// Calvinism is utterly false ///

On the contrary, Calvinism is utterly TRUE.

Wanna debate?

[aarancel]

"But it will be said that this differs widely from the experience of believers, who, in recognizing the grace of God toward them, not only feel disquietude (this often happens), but sometimes tremble, overcome with terror,29 92 292 As to the imperfection, strengthening, and increase of faith, see Book 4. chap. 4 sec. 7, 8. so violent are the temptations which assail their minds. This scarcely seems consistent with certainty of faith"

Institutes bk3, ch2, Sect 17

[aarancel]

This is basically saying that even thought we are to be certain of our Faith, we (as humans) do have uncertainty, checking your second quote check the words "we rather maintain that believers HAVE a perpetual struggle" meaning as descriptive, it is what people experience in real life, because as people we can doubt of our conversion in light of the Holiness of God and our sinfulness

[aarancel]

I'd like an answer from you Andrew... I also posses many of Calvin's writings so we can discuss things together to see whether he is wrong or not

Peace

[clujborn]

Sturdier 101 be carefull.I know where you are coming from.You smell like a Calvinist too!!

Calling somebody of THE DEVIL is not a sin my friend.Nor is it a rush to judgement.Get your facts straight.Red Bettle is lost and on top of it all is feeding people lies.And he sure sound fanatic doing it!!

[Studier101]

WOW !!!

At it again!

And so hastily too!

Most people take someone out of context in a way that the quote which they decontextualized actually proves their point.

You include enough context to deny your point!!!!!

WOW...

If you are true, learn to read more than one sentence.

If you are false, please put some more effort in to actually producing something a little more substancial. Actually quote a bad passage and don't show the part that proves you are a liar...PLEASE!!!!!

[KOMIKO007]

ANDREW...SHUT UP!!!

STUDY MORE!!!

[Studier101]

Not a matter of study, just reading paragrahs is all.

[clujborn]

RedBeatle is of the Devil.Just look at his Logo.Plus his foolish comments like:NonCalvinists can't spell.Yhis guy needs help bad.Calvinists are delusional and they buy a lie From a murderer like John Calvin.I bet if Monty lived in Calvins era he would.t talk like this.Calvin would burn him at the stake hahahah.

[Studier101]

Red Beatle is somewhat arrogant and has a bad choice of friends.

I wouldn't call him "of the devil" without really having a firsthand aquaintence of him.

He probably uses a spellchecker for his messages, don't worry. : )

Does he agree with Andrew here on Calvin?

THAT is a good question...

But be careful with using "of the devil", even Andrew, though acting malevolently (whether purposeful or no), I would not say he is "of the devil".

The Lord knows who are His.

[randyhelzerman]

Awesome.  Great research.

[7JayMan7]

Unfortunately Mr McSwain ...... you forget the Scripture where Jesus Christ states :

Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Mr McSwindle....sorry...McSwain thinks faith is an "Intellectual" Pursuit.....how so, so Wrong you are McSwain.

Remember the Words of Jesus to the Pharissees:

Mar 7:6 >>>".....This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

[pbcinla]

Quote 1: Calvin gives us the goal of faith.

Quote 2: Calvin shows us the reality of faith.

And the contradiction is /where?/

This is no different than the struggle to live holy lives: The goal is to live without sin. No one who abides in him sins (1 Jn 3:6). Yet there is the struggle (Rom 7:19)

So there are two laws within me, Paul would say: The spirit and the flesh/faith and doubt.

[RedBeetle]

The author of this video fails to mention, or perhaps he simply has not studied the Calvin or the Bible long enough to realize that after an individual is converted that there are now two natures existing in the justified person: a sinful doubting nature and a certain believing one. Romans chapter 7 points this out nicely, but our "Calvin expert" must have forgotten this. The justified are not perfect after their conversion. Hence: Lord, I believe, help my unbelief.

[RedBeetle]

A contradiction exists only if Calvin is speaking of the same thing in the same way, but it is clear that he is speaking of man's sinful nature doubting, and not that he is speaking of the new man in Christ. The author of this video may be helped by reading Gordon H. Clark's book titled, "Sanctification," that is, if he is not a Catholic.

[RedBeetle]

The Author of the video lies outright when he claims that Calvin admitted to his view as being a contradiction. Look at his highlighted quote from the Institutes, 3,2,17. You will see that Calvin uses the word "seems". There is a big difference between a seeming contradiction and an actual one, but the Calvin expert hopes you will not catch his slip.

[RedBeetle]

When the author of the video lists the 4 propositions, you will note that the #1 is not in standard form, for it lacks a copula.

[RedBeetle]

The author of the video also wants us to believe that just because he could not see how Calvin reconciled the "seeming" contradiction, then no one possibly can. This is absurd. I would suggest a reading of Gary Crampton's book titled, "What Calvin Says." Get it from the Trinity Foundation.

[RedBeetle]

The author of the video makes an insane conclusion right at the end. He asserts that those going to hell do not have any knowledge of God. First, read Romans 1. Next, consider this counter-example: The devil knows about God...and he is going to hell. So much for Andrew's loony notion.

[RedBeetle]

Finally, let me just lay this challenge down once more. If this guy is serious about representing Calvin correctly, then let him comment on Calvin's view of Romans chapter 7 in light of his video here. Is Andrew implying that Calvin is unaware of the two natures at war in the elect after regeneration. Let him answer or retract.

[jesuitinfiltrator]

The day when we cannot re examine old favorite theologians because of "church traditions" is a sad day indeed, and the very thing Jesus Christ warned us about concerning dead traditions. Calvin was not infallible by any stretch of the imagination. His family covenant theology is deeply flawed in many aspects.

[RedBeetle]

Catholics are forbidden to examine anything for themselves. Individual private judgment is forbidden to them by the Antichrist (the pope). So a good Catholic would simply keep his mouth shut and mindlessly assent to whatever the Antichrist tells him. Martin Luther was the last Catholic to question the "fathers" and get away with it.

[jesuitinfiltrator]

You have proved my point, that mens traditions take supremacy over the bible itself, reformed theology is not less culpable than the Roman Catholic churches theology. The reformed view that the final antichrist, the "man of sin" as prophesied in thessalonians is erroneous. That antichrist will be a specific person NOT an institution or church. A specific person.

[vsTylervs]

Dude; what are you ultimately getting at? Are you excommunicating Calvin now, because you're sounding quasi-gnostic - ie., saved by one's knowledge, not by a Christ and his election. I'm honestly interested in how you would exegete passages similar to Mk 9.24.

[AndrewcBain]

Hi. Thanks for the question about Mk 9:24. Yes, the centurion cried out "Help my unbelief!". But when did he say that? Before or after the Resurrection? You say "before." Well, before the Resurrection -- had Christ given the final decisive proof that He is the Messiah? Could the Centurion have infallible certainty that Jesus was the Christ before he had the infallible proof (the Resurrection)?

[AndrewcBain]

More on this question here... Godnoliar.**com/john_the_bapti­st.htm

(remove **s). Thanks.

[MBI3030]

Andrew, all you do is attack and misunderstand Christians.......

[joshjames76]

This is why I don't get this guy. And I have never seen him respond to any of his comments. Does he do it just for the sake of argument? I also noticed that all of his favorites are his own stuff. You are way into yourself. And your videos are useless

[MBI3030]

I do not think Andrew is a true follower of Jesus becuase all he does is attack individuals God has used greatly. He cut and paste according to his presuppositions.

[joshjames76]

I agree 100%. It's almost like Hollywood stars trying to get attention from the paparazzi. Surly he could come up with a better way to use his time. I only hope is that my comments are not feeding his strange addiction. The people he chooses to go after are great men of God. I also find it strange that he never replies to comments. What is he afraid of? I would have never come across him unless he invited me.

[MBI3030]

He invited me also. At first I thought he was a Christian until after seeing every post Andrew has, he only attacks Christian theologians that have been used greatly. And the sad thing is they are all dead and can not post a reply. There is a much greater battle going on: The LOST SOULS that are not saved............

[kentkim23]

Great video Andrew. It's clear that Calvin does not believe in the Gospel that brings forth assurance, it seems as if he is attempting to stay Biblical without convicting his own self.