@Cheshu1 Ah, FINALLY! Someone will talk with me like I'm an adult! Well, I've never heard of the whole white skin thing. I'll have to ask my Bishop about or something. But thanks for the info, and the great conversation!
@Cheshu1 I don't know. I'm only thirteen years old. But, you can send a letter to Thomas S. Monson, our current prophet. He answers all letters. He will answer truthfully. Now, I didn't completely understand the post with the thing about the black people, white woman, and the fines? Please explain more. Also, if we are defined by our past, then does that make America defined by George Bush?
@ShadlinTolly The will of God was for all people to see the light. If we had disobeyed the law, our Church would've been destroyed. See? Also, in reference to your comment before, I doubt any Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Catholics, whatever, will admit that they tarred and feathered, tortured, killed, shot, and did many other things to Mormons, just because they were a new religion.
@Cheshu1 True, yes. But Joseph Smith made mistakes, just like all of us do. Thomas Jefferson, third President of the United States of America, published some of the most vile works of literature against slaves written. And he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Andrew Jackson, former hero of the War of 1812, issued the Indian Removal Act, forcing Indians to walk the trail of tears. And slavery was part of the law at the time. Some sacrifices must be made (continued in next post)
@ShadlinTolly (Continued) in order to keep the Church alive. If we were to go against slavery, the Church could've been destroyed, and unable to grow, and allow ALL people today to do this. And how do you know Mormons at your door won't tell you this? Have you ever asked them? They will be truthful.
a prophet loses the ability to speak their own mind? everything they say must be from god? if a prophet loses the ability to speak from their own flawed human mind then they would also lose the ability to act from their own human mind. god nearly killed moses because he had failed to circumcise his son. clearly prophets are still human.
@Cheshu1 when did I say that was a biblical quote? unlike you, I believe that god still calls prophets today. if a book were all we needed moses would have been the only prophet ever called, he'd have written the book and been done with it. we do not condemn anyone based on the color of their skin, you are doing exactly to our doctrine as you claim I have done to the bible.
I have not tried changing the topic, you accused me of slinging insults and I pointed out that while you have done plenty of accusations my only accusation is that you hate us, which being true is not an insult or an attack. please support your claim that I have attacked you. you have attacked me by accusing me of deception.
I do not defend evil treatment of anyone. whether individual or group. which is why I do defend against false and unprovable accusations.
You are being deceptive by putting words in my mouth. case in point I never stated the reason for cains mark. so which scripture did I misquote? you state your conclusions but you fail to adequately support them. I was not arround to hear the exact wording of the founding prophets but with how you have misrepresented what I have said to my face how could I possibly trust your word on what anyone else has said?
slick deceptions like mine? you give me far too much credit. I am a mechanical engineer who finds religion (including his own) boring. I like to think I am skilled in logic but even since childhood made a concious effort to ensure I never developed deceptive or manipulative skills.
speaking of logic, I have stuck with such and the only accusation I have made "that you hate us" you didn't deny. you have committed many logical falacies including ad hominem attacks.
rejecting the opportunity to recieve the priesthood is rejecting the opportunity to feed his sheep. it is rejecting the service which we beliefe is part of the plan, not having the opportunity for what ever reason is not having the opportunity and as such noone is judged for not taking an opportunity they did not have.
insult? I merely showed you paralel behavior to your own, I have not acused you of any malice other than hating us mormons.
even more interesting is that while you insist your interpretation is the only way to interpret what was said, that many black mormons would disagree with you. but I guess you're right and they are wrong. (and you'd have to be on pot to think any black mormon had not been told about them being denied the priesthood until what ever the year was... you mormon haters far outnumber mormons
interesting that you have such unwavering hatred for us, but that must be the christlike love as displayed by dove world outreach and westboro... there has never been any claim of blacks serving whites in the afterlife of mormon theology. again, they never pronounced a curse upon them, they said that they had been cursed through their lineage, that black skin was the mark of cain and that they were not to be given the priesthood at that point in time.
@Cheshu1 well then the god of the old testiment is shameful. just because the bible did not specify blacks by lineage does not mean hte bible did not specify people by lineage. acording to mormon theology everyone has the same opportunity, in fact mormons are hte only christian religion which believes there is opportunity in the afterlife for those who did not recieve the opportunity in this life.
regardless, to say the mormon prophets cursed them is a lie especially if you do not beleive the mormon prophets have the power to curse. our prophets express what it is that they believe is the will of god and they expressed that it is not yet time for blacks to have the priesthood just as the non levites were not allowed the pristehood. how dare you lie about them. thou shalt not bear false witness is one of the 10 laws moses brought down... making it kinda a biggy.
I made no attempt to decieve. they said the black skin was the curse of cain, they did not cast some "curse of cain" on them as your sentence structure denotes. you may believe that god does not bless or punish people by their ancestors choices but that is not inline with the bible. if god can punish adams descendants for his sin and cansanite children for their parents sins... then why can't he punish cains descendants for cains sin?
@Cheshu1 yeah, we had already been driven from "civilized" america and had to settle the most imhospitable land on the continent, I mean seriously... not just desert, but salt flats!!!! the romans used salt to ensure their enemies could not restore their strength by preventing agriculture. we were not in any position to help with yet annother war.
WOAH WOAH WOAH! Tithing?! You mean that thing Abraham paid to Melchizedek in the Bible... that cant be right. Furthermore you dont have to pay tithing to stay in the church you only have to pay tithing to have callings and go to the temple. As far as humanitarian aid goes there is a thing called Helping Hands. Also the church does tons of service but theres only like 5 mil members in the states. the real question is how come we dont here more from the Mega Churches?
Mormonism is not a cult. It may be to you because of your definition of a cult(aka a religion i dont like) but hey im a fair sport so ill play by your rules. A cult is "A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister."
Hmmmm... where have a read something like that before... OH WAIT! Weren't Christians once considered strange and sinister because they believed in Christ? Yes yes they wer
Also "Mormon" is a nickname that was given to the church by the community that dissaproves of them (Moron). The LDS adopted the term as a way to decrease and eliminate it's influence.
Gotta love a "religion" that has a seperate NonMormon waiting room in their temples because they have a "secret" wedding ritual. What other church have you been to where those of different faiths(or no faiths) are prohibited from property? Also requiring a 10% tiething from every member regardless of their financial standing in order to be in good standing(and to remain) in the church is horrible. Funny how you never hear of any goodwill non-missionary/preaching work that they do for the poor.
By definition Mormon is a cult, just because they have become more mainstream does not change the facts. I wouldn't vote for a Mormon president, no way. Also the Mormon religion did not help to build this country, they seperated themselves from it and had planned to create their own country in Utah. Mormonism was created in the United States therefore there were never any "Mormon Pioneers" they left the US.
@Cheshu1 Second, do some research. Genesis Ch. 4 tells of Cain receiving a mark from God as part of his punishment for killing his brother Abel. Many modern Christians, not just LDS (or Mormons) have viewed this to mean black skin. Preaching as such is not very common anymore, but used to be commonplace, not just in the LDS church. It has never been considered doctrine in our church, however. And once again, even if this was what was meant, that would be Cain's condemnation, not his children's.
@Cheshu1 First off, that scritpture is referring, not to black people but to ancient people in America, namely two brothers named Laman and Lemuel, and their descendants. The curse was meant for the condemnation of the two brothers, and the part about it being so they wouldn't be "enticing" to Nephi's people was for the same reason as the Israelites were told in the old testament not to marry non-Israelites. That is, so they wouldn't pick up on their wicked ways. No difference.
dude plutogirl.. one thing that u should kno about a mormon is that we do have a book about Jesus Christ either u want to believe it or not the book of mormon is the american Bible basically.. when Christ rezed he didnt just visit one particular part of the world.. for all we kno he visited over in asia but there r no records of him being there... and another thing is Romney didnt make it public he was mormon that was what reporters did so it wasnt us trying to get attention for our religion.
Romney made solemn vows backed by blood oaths & death threats in a MORmON temple to ALWAYS PUT BUILDING THE MORmON KINGDOM ABOVE ALL ELSE!
Then the LYING POS comes on National TV & says he would not give undue consideration to his cult religion & he expects ppl to believe him? what an ass ! MORmON!
i hope Mitt Romney is the Republican nominee: he'll get is ass handed to him because he's a Mormon, and deservedly so.
At least when JFK ran 50 years ago as a RC, they were real Christians. there's no damn way the GOP will let that happen, i.e., give away the election by allowing Romney to represent them.
I think that unfortunately a Mormon will be in the White House when the South freezes over. Hardcore Evangelicals (who predominate in the South) would rather slit their own throats than ever vote for a Mormon! The South is very important, especially during Republican presidential primaries!! They will never vote for a Mormon! Ever!! Never!!
I dont think that people should say "a Mormon in the white house???" whats wrong with that? we have just as much right as running for office as any other religion.... Freedom of Religion.....
I am very thankful for the teachings of the church and teachings of Jesus Christ and his gospel. My life would have little or no meaning without him. It has also given me a perspective to love all others unconditionally, even those who do not believe in following Jesus Christ or do not believe in God at all. However, personally I believe that doesn't mean He doesn't believe in them and all of his children. May we all learn to be happy and grateful for what we do have versus what we don't.
@leahhj3 Mormons are liars. Mormons say they know their church is true without giving court quality evidence. In other words Mormons are continuously bearing false witness.
112 thumbs down? only 80 thumbs up. Wow, people really don't like Mitt. Might be cause he changed his mind on abortion. Or maybe cause his universal health care in Mass. Not sure, but I do not think anyone would ever elect him POTUS.
@mdlinks Exactly. Mitt Romney should be judged on his political career not his religion. That said, to anyone who ever waved flip flops to ridicule John Kerry then in all honesty you should get an industrial fan to mimic Mitt. he says exactly what his audience wants to hear, but it changes with every audience. He makes Julia Roberts character in "Runaway Bride" look decisive by comparison.
As much as I know that it is a fraud, I'd still rather have a Mormon president than a neo-Marxist Black-Liberation theology radical president, an America-hater who wants to "fundamentally transform" the country into something he and his ugly wife want it to be.
I guess it's a good thing that Al Sharpton wasn't elected, eh? And he might not have been elected had George Bush been a decent President.
But no, there will likely never be a Mormon President, as more than 80% of all Americans know that something's wrong with Mormonism, even if they can't exactly explain what that is.
@moparmonster1965 hahahaaa. Of course you know who I was talking about. The Rev. Wright's main man, Barak Hussein Obama! Our Dear Leader. The Saviour! (He's our black Adolf Hitler and a fraud).
Tomorrow, hopefully, his Jihad against American free enterprise will start to come to an end.
I assume you're referring to the healthcare bill, which, upon closer investigation, really contains no downside. You might complain about the increase in rates, to which I'd point out that they rise every year. You could complain about the Federal Government mandating everyone be covered, which affects free market capitalism and I'd respond that with no yearly cap and no restrictions on pre-existing conditions, you'd be thankful should you develop a serious illness like cystic fibrosis.
@moparmonster1965 No I'm talking about much more. Taxes, regulations, more and more govenment intrusion. But his healthcare scam is the biggest. It is going to be a disaster if it's not stopped.
But what a great idea. We should make all insurance like that, I'd love to have a similar plan with auto insurance. Pay a relatively small fine every year until I actually have an accident, and THEN get the insurance. Obama is aiming to put the insurance companies out of business.
Assuming you're correct, which, of course, you're not, after their stellar showing after Hurricane Katrina, those same insurance companies don't deserve to be put out of business? People pay hundreds of millions of dollars per year to insurance companies and then get the shaft? Even you know that's not ethical.
@moparmonster1965 You've heard the term "single payer". Obama wants the government to be that. It's the goal of the socialist left. And putting insurance compainies out of business is a necessity for that
Insurance companies are much more ethical than a crony-gifting government that adds trillions to the debt every year with no plans of ever being fiscally responsible. That's nothing but enslavement of future generations.
Respond if you like but no matter what you say. I'm thru with you.
You've clearly never been denied coverage for something you were lead to believe you were paying for in the first place. Insurance companies hire legions of lawyers who look for ways to get out of paying claims they ought to be paying in the first place.
And then exit behavior? I expect that out of Mormon apologists, not someone who wants to talk about politics. You just undermined your own weak position.
Ah, you finally reveal yourself to be a conspiracy theorist. Now it all makes sense; I assume you believe that Americans are being rounded up into concentration camps, too, eh?
@moparmonster1965 You've heard of the Cloward_Piven strategy? It's a real strategy and Piven is a friend of Obama (Cloward is dead but no doubt would be a friend of B.O.'s if he was still kicking). There's no "theory" about anything the Magic Negro does. He's surrounded by leftwing 60s style radicals who are enemies of free enterprise and America. It's reality not a conspiracy theory.
@HonkIfYouLoveHonking absolutely and he actually does have a much better track record than Obama. Obama pretty much came out of the stall dragging his heals and pushing this country the other direction towards socialism/marxism and away from the US Constitution and everything the founding fathers intended, we'll be lucky to have any freedoms left by 2012. God bless America!
If Mormonism isn't a cult, why do family members who leave the church get disowned by their parents? Because it is. Just like scientology or various fundie covens.
@NutNapalm A bit of a general sweeping statement t my friend. Its down to the individual families. In all walks of life family members disown relatives. A friend of mine is gay he told his parents, they disowned him. My sisters's Catholic girlfriend feel in love with a Jew, she converted, guess what happened. Cult is such an easy peg for the ignorant and ill informed to hang their hats on when they cant be bothered to find out the real reasons and circumstamces. No offence intented.
@poderosoboricua: Er....actually, "arguments" have always been made in defense of truth to help others see the light. Don't get me wrong, I agree, contention is of the devil, so people should be kind and civil, but pointing out things to try and help people see your point of view doesn't MEAN you're afraid you're wrong.
@Kagura134: Yes, being a Christian means that you follow Christ's teachings, one of which would be not calling your brother "Raca" AKA "idiot." Let's PROVE we're Christian.=)
Americans are wierd!! Instead of electing a White Mormon president that is as Christian as they come, they vote on a Afrikan Muslim President, that people actually don´t even know if he is really American!!!.... How dumm is it?
@MaoiMeowi2 .... Yeah right I am racist!, and you are being prejudice which is the same as racist, just because the guy is a MORMON, you question his belief, what about obama then? he is no DUMMER than OBAMA... actually he is pretty bright! got more money than me and you could ever dream. Good luck with your reality in America.
@TheMmmateiro You automatically think the guy's a better president because he's white. In reality, he would have the same problems Obama does currently. I mentioned nothing about him being a Mormon.
Not at all my friend, What I was criticising is that people did not ask what religion Obama was, eventhough was pretty clear he was muslim, and guess what muslims are ok by me too! But why do America make such a Big deal to an Mormon in the White house since mormon Pioneers helped build up your country! specially the west, Weren´t for them! Plus there are countless important mormons making a diference In the CIA, FBI, NSA, and etc.. even the last white house spokesman was Mormon. did you know?
Well I did not say that! but since you ask, I believe when people are able to abide to certain rules, and moral codes regardless if that makes you popular or not is already a plus. if that person tells you he will do something, most likely they will! Mr. Obama told the american people that the health care reform would not pay for abortion, now Tax payers are paying for Abortion. So if history repeats itself most likely mormons Can get the Job Done once again. and trust me I am not mormon
@TheMmmateiro Politicians always lie. By the way, don't say I don't follow my promises (it's what you implied when you said that Mormons get the job done).
History has no correlation to a particular individual.
@TheMmmateiro If you think nobody was asking about Obama's religion then you were clearly not paying attention and Obama is not a Muslim. I respect Mormons because of their focus on education but you clearly didn't follow in their footsteps.
Mitt Romney? Really? People really need to see For Liberty: How the Ron Paul Revolution Watered the Withered Tree of Liberty - A Grassroots Documentary.
@MorganMarvinson "judge the man on his capabilities"? Which "man"? Are you referring to Joseph Smith Jr.? If so, which "capabilities" should we judge him by? How about his ability to sleep with other men's wives (adultery)? Or what about deceiving thousands of people? Or my personal favorite, his ability to invent a new religion and proclaim false prophecies. Yes, a very capable man indeed!
Here are some references regarding polygamy and the practice by the gods and those who will be [gods] as a result of the exaltation of human beings to godhood, as found in the teachings of the Mormon church.
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. ...I heard the revelation on polygamy, and I believe it with all my heart, and I know it is from God..."
LDS President and Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 269, August 19, 1866.
but in no place does this constitute revelation for the whole church... for if it were, he would have said, "For thus saith the Lord..."
He believed it, while living the law of plural marriage, that if it was important for his salvation like it may have been important for Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that it must also be an important principle of the restored gospel.
I sense a lack in knowing the difference between doctrine and his personal beliefs.
Are you serious!? The man has no clue at all when it comes to the Constitution, which also means no clue about freedom. Either that or he has chosen to ignore it during his time in politics. Just because a man is LDS does not mean he should get the support from the saints.
I didn't say I supported him because he was LDS; I said I supported him after reading the book. I also support him because, ever since I read the book, I've watched him closely while he campaigned for himself and for other candidates, including some in my own state. He's not perfect, but neither is he the anti-Constitutionalist you make him out to be.
Well lets see, he supports cap and trade, he signed legislation requiring all in his state to buy insurance, backed the brady bill, flip flopped on abortion,(shouldn't even be questioned if your LDS) supports both wars, and supports certain aspects of "enhance interrogation" all of which is unconstitutional. Speaking of the Constitution, the Lord taught "...whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil." D&C 98:7
Well, first of all, the LDS Church does allow for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother's life is in danger. It's recreational abortion (my term) that we oppose. Second, Romney didn't flip-flop on it; his position evolved, just as Ronald Reagan's and George H.W. Bush's did (which is discussed in the book, by the way). It was never a question of whether he personally supported it, but whether he would "impose" his beliefs as executive (which, his record, shows he did).
In the case of rape, incest, harm to mother, child won't live past birth, abortion is okay. However, Romney has pioneer heritage right? How could this be a fuzzy issue for him? How could he be afraid to "impose" his belief on another in an effort to save a life? And its not just the abortion issue. They man has done more against the constitution than for it. How could we expect him to uphold an oath to protect it when he is guilty of attacking it?
He wasn't afraid to; that was my point. He governed as pro-life. When a team of scientists, from Harvard I believe, came to the governor's office with their proposal to institute a de facto embryo factory to harvest stem cells, he closed the door. That was his "turning point", you might say. Many Mormon (and Catholic) politicians are pro-life but choose to govern or legislate as pro-choice; Romney was (and is) a pro-lifer.
The abortion issue is debatable. If life begins a conception, the abortion should be illegal. If it begins at 3 months, then it should be illegal at 3 months. However, what is not debatable is all his other stances that he took, a few of which I have listed, are unconstitutional. The president (and every other elected official) swears to uphold the constitution. If he couldn't do it while governor, then I will not support him for president.
As for the wars being unconstitutional, I'm no lawyer, but I don't believe that we're technically at war right now. Congress hasn't declared it, but it has given the president (both Obama and Bush) the leash to move troops around and engage in combat. If you'd prefer that we either declare war or withdraw, of course, that's another issue. Obviously, Romney would be in favor of declaring war.
Like I said, he's not perfect; but he is a great man, and I would proud to vote for him.
Exactly! Congress hasn't declared it, hence making our actions over the ILLEGAL/UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Nor has congress the power to give the president the war powers it has. I'm not even sure what we are doing over there? Being a veteran myself, from a line of veterans, with three family members currently serving, one in Iraq, another in Afghanistan, just adds to the frustration. I just wish we actually applied the supreme law of the land. Save us from a lot of our current troubles.
One brother in law is a pediatric doctor, so he is not directly involved with the fight. However, he does question as to why we are there. The other two, one in Iraq the other afghanistan don't seem to be all too concerned or knowledgeable about the constitution or really why we are their. They don't like being there, but they don't really understand why they shouldn't be there.
He's speaking of Joseph F. Smith, Firetruck. None the less, it doesn't mean that anything that moparmonster says is truth. Most are ramblings of a sad and angry man - and always taken out of context. By the way, the Bible teaches all of the concepts listed below which moparmonster asks about.
to awolLDS... poligamy was stopped in the LDS church when God commanded it. Other mormon sects that still practiced it are not to be confused with LDS members.
to Bidimus1... many con artists make up things to controdict the mormon church. and if you understood more of what the ressurection is, you would have not made that statement containing the scripture from mathew.
The only problem is that your prophet, Joseph F Smith, was convicted of violating Utah's anti-polygamy laws in 1906. A second Manifesto then had to be issued. If they were following the rules in the first place, why would they have to make it clear a second time? And why did your prophet choose to break god's law?
Funny how god suddenly decided that man's laws were more important than his own. Don't believe me? Look into the Edmunds-Tucker Act of 1887. It gave the Federal Govenment the ability to seize church property and put its polygamous members in jail, didn't it? And on the eve of the temples being seized, god issues the decree that polygamy is suddenly not required. Pretty convenient, huh?
You don't know much about polygamy, do you? I mean, other than the lies the church tells about it. Since D&C 132 revolves around polygamy and it is called a "new and everlasting covenant," it should be eternal, right? Instead, it only lasted 47 years from the time of the revelation (though Smith was a polygamist from as early as 1831) until it was renounced in 1890.
One only argues doctrine, if he or she have doubts about what they believe. Argument is a defence, triggered by the fear that what they believe may not be true. Arguing religion is a waste of time, as the truth can only be determined by a calm spirit. Contention is of the devil, so please stop arguing.
pure wisdom my friend, a message to all of you, listen to your souls, do not deject any idea. God will find you, and you will find him under the light he was ment to be under for you
Indeed, if more would put their trust in the Lord in mighty prayer and supplication, they wouldn't have to look to the right or the left and see what they should do or how they should believe!
@poderosoboricua An argument is to get two sides of a viewpoint to prove what they believe is true with facts, as in a court case. It doesn't mean that it involves anger or hate.
We're suppose to teach the truth if we see that someone is being lead astray. It's definitely not a waste of time if you care. Truth is determined by facts.
Mormon Missionaries are in all parts of the world and argue doctrine every day. I have had several arguments with them when they have approached me with their nonsense. They get very heated during the discussion. They must be of the devil with all that contention.
None of you know Mormon doctrine. Yes some men have been sealed with more than one wife for eternity, but this is not for personal gain. If it were the covenant they made in the temple would be void and they could not enter into the presence of God. Be careful to judge others, lest you be judged the same way yourself at the judgement seat of God.
Mormon doctrine can be interpreted many ways and to soften it doesn't make it right. Personal gain? God never told them to keep polygamy active. This was never from God. It was the brethren that could not let go of the extra wives idea.
The wicked will be judged.
The righteous will be rewarded.
Who are the righteous you ask?
The faithfull who believe that Jesus is the almighty God and paid for all sin on the cross.
This completely destroys Mormon doctrine where Christ is a spirit brother
ur argument does not make sense. so i guess according to u abraham and israel where evil men oh thats right they had more then one wife. oh yeah if u dont believe in christ being your spirit brother i guess u do not read the bible. because its constantly saying how he prayed unto God the father.
I am glad you have a full knowledge of what every one else knows.
Lets see
"First vision" at least 10 different account that contradict each other on major points, one of which in (1832) in j.smiths own handwriting is completely contradictory of the "official: version of 1838
with a foundation like that, its pretty difficult to see j.smith as a very reliable source.
Not to mention he was known to be a "glass looker" i.e. a con man.
Since you are Christians, please tell me where in the BOM I can find Jesus teaching of God being married, of us all being spiritual sinlings, that he's an exalted being and that we, too, can become gods, anything about the pre-mortal existance, that God has a physical body, that there are three levels of Heaven, that polygamy would be permitted even while it was publicly denounced, that he, God, and the Holy Spirit are separate and distinct, or that he atoned for our sins in the Garden.
Probably the same way you believe all that you do, from a prophet. The difference between you and the LDS community is they don't believe God has sealed the heavens. They believe the God still talks to prophets in this day, just as he had in ancient times. Oh, that, and just about everything else they believe can be found in the bible.
Please tell me where in the Bible I can find Jesus teaching of God being a married polygamist, of us all being spiritual siblings, that he's an exalted being and that we, too, can become gods, anything about the pre-mortal existance, that God has a physical body, that Jesus killed two men at the Crucifixion, that polygamy would be permitted even while it was publicly denounced, that he, God, and the Holy Spirit are separate and distinct, or that he atoned for our sins in the Garden.
haha but we dont belive God is a polygamist. Tell me how would God talk to Jesus if they were 1 person. why would jesus pray to God in gethsemeni if he were God. Why would Jesus say worship God and return to my father if he were pretty much is father. Why wouldnt we be able to become Gods if we llived righteous lives on earth.
You don't now but the early church once did. This shows that the church is an evolution, not a restoration.
Those are good points, but didn't Jesus also say that if you'd seen him, you already seen God?
You're assuming that we can fully understand and comprehend the creator of the universe, the maker of everything. I say nothing could be farther from the truth.
God doesn't owe us an explanation about his nature or goals.
Because that would make God much less powerful and unique.
well I guess you maybe have some ponts there. But Jesus Is not God. He is like God, hes perfect like God, but different. If you were mormon youd realize that Its a great true religion. I just did babtisms for the dead in the temple and it was so amazing. Trust me, Mormons have answers to all your questions I mean Look at President Monson, or deider F uchtdorf, or Eyring. THey are amazing people, and by them i know the church is true
He's not in current Mormonism, but in the first printing of the BOM, he most certainly was and he's the change that proves it:
These records shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that
the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior (BOM, 1830, p.32)
These records shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father and the Savior (BOM, 1 Nephi 14:30)
Well since you asked ill give you a 'factual' reference then point to what Jesus said.
look up "the book of mormon on trial". At a law school to graduate one class the professor (a former judge) had each student pick something to defend against the rest of the class. Almost none ever won. Well, long and short (find the book to get the details yourself) this guy won handily.
From the bible, 'faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" and other such
Alright u want some evidence?? i got tons ill throw some at you one at a time hehe. Look up Doctrine and Covenants Secton 87 versus 1-4. if u dont have a Book of Mormon look it up on the internet. Theres one of many things for u. to sum it up: a prophesy that was fulfilled about 30 years later..the civil war..have fun! :)
Until we return to meet our father in heaven, we can only speculate as to what this will be like.
We are given line upon line and precept upon precept. According to the doctrines of the church as they are being administered on the earth, this is all we need for salvation and exaltation... and it's all we need to know for now. Sure, it would be wonderful to have added insight but as far as the church is concerned, all saving ordinances are available to the world.
Nope. We treat him like a modern Moses because that is what is. Having prophets in Israel once again is a very important thing but it does not sub plant Jesus Christ. Even Moses pointed the children of Israel towards "he who would come" awaiting the coming of the Messiah but even the children of Israel would perish or would be cut off from the Lord if they did not need the words of the prophet. (See Numbers chapter 21)
Prophets act as the Lord's mouthpiece when not around.
@thesiRisacc REALLY? Are you saying that the fact we believe Jesus Christ to be the head of our church, That He is Gods begotten son, and that He died for our sins, doesn't make us christian. that our constant study of Christ's teachings & examples doesn't qualify us as Christians? The book of Mormon states "We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, & we prophesy of Christ." It's obvious Mormons are supposed to be Christians, so please enlighten me on how, since you know?
@NAMBLARep And in none of that does it say that you believe Christ's grace is sufficient to save you from your sins. Oh, no. Because you believe in Joe Smith and the false prophets that followed you also think you have to earn your salvation. That's what removes Mormons from mainstream Christianity - by all that doing of things and temple work you have to buy your way in to heaven. Romney will never get in to the White House btw.
@NAMBLARep Real Christians would alway love their neighbor as themselves. You Mormons have the inability to love your neighbors as yourselves. For example, top Mormon leaders (from bishop to apostle) are required to be married when they receive their positions of authority. When top Mormon leaders attempt to illegalize same-sex marriage through their front group (National Organization For Marriage,) they demonstrate that they do not love homosexuals as themselves..
@NAMBLARep I thought Mormons believed Joseph Smith to be the head of the church. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. When I talk to Mormons, I don't hear much about Jesus, only Joseph Smith.
@Cheshu1 Ah, FINALLY! Someone will talk with me like I'm an adult! Well, I've never heard of the whole white skin thing. I'll have to ask my Bishop about or something. But thanks for the info, and the great conversation!
ShadlinTolly 1 month ago
@Cheshu1 I don't know. I'm only thirteen years old. But, you can send a letter to Thomas S. Monson, our current prophet. He answers all letters. He will answer truthfully. Now, I didn't completely understand the post with the thing about the black people, white woman, and the fines? Please explain more. Also, if we are defined by our past, then does that make America defined by George Bush?
ShadlinTolly 1 month ago
@Cheshu1 Cursed an entire race against the will of God? How so?
ShadlinTolly 1 month ago
@ShadlinTolly The will of God was for all people to see the light. If we had disobeyed the law, our Church would've been destroyed. See? Also, in reference to your comment before, I doubt any Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Catholics, whatever, will admit that they tarred and feathered, tortured, killed, shot, and did many other things to Mormons, just because they were a new religion.
ShadlinTolly 1 month ago
@Cheshu1 True, yes. But Joseph Smith made mistakes, just like all of us do. Thomas Jefferson, third President of the United States of America, published some of the most vile works of literature against slaves written. And he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Andrew Jackson, former hero of the War of 1812, issued the Indian Removal Act, forcing Indians to walk the trail of tears. And slavery was part of the law at the time. Some sacrifices must be made (continued in next post)
ShadlinTolly 1 month ago
@ShadlinTolly (Continued) in order to keep the Church alive. If we were to go against slavery, the Church could've been destroyed, and unable to grow, and allow ALL people today to do this. And how do you know Mormons at your door won't tell you this? Have you ever asked them? They will be truthful.
ShadlinTolly 1 month ago
Mit Romney is a cult leader that is going to make our country all drink the poisioned kool aid.
K00lKidzKlan 2 months ago
@K00lKidzKlan Uh... I'll just ignore that.
ShadlinTolly 1 month ago
Why not? We have a Muslim in the WhiteHouse, right? No one is offended that we have one of them, now are they?
THELDSLIFE 2 months ago
@Cheshu1 well then jonah was a false prophet
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1
a prophet loses the ability to speak their own mind? everything they say must be from god? if a prophet loses the ability to speak from their own flawed human mind then they would also lose the ability to act from their own human mind. god nearly killed moses because he had failed to circumcise his son. clearly prophets are still human.
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1 when did I say that was a biblical quote? unlike you, I believe that god still calls prophets today. if a book were all we needed moses would have been the only prophet ever called, he'd have written the book and been done with it. we do not condemn anyone based on the color of their skin, you are doing exactly to our doctrine as you claim I have done to the bible.
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1
I have not tried changing the topic, you accused me of slinging insults and I pointed out that while you have done plenty of accusations my only accusation is that you hate us, which being true is not an insult or an attack. please support your claim that I have attacked you. you have attacked me by accusing me of deception.
I do not defend evil treatment of anyone. whether individual or group. which is why I do defend against false and unprovable accusations.
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1
You are being deceptive by putting words in my mouth. case in point I never stated the reason for cains mark. so which scripture did I misquote? you state your conclusions but you fail to adequately support them. I was not arround to hear the exact wording of the founding prophets but with how you have misrepresented what I have said to my face how could I possibly trust your word on what anyone else has said?
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1
slick deceptions like mine? you give me far too much credit. I am a mechanical engineer who finds religion (including his own) boring. I like to think I am skilled in logic but even since childhood made a concious effort to ensure I never developed deceptive or manipulative skills.
speaking of logic, I have stuck with such and the only accusation I have made "that you hate us" you didn't deny. you have committed many logical falacies including ad hominem attacks.
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
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@Cheshu1
rejecting the opportunity to recieve the priesthood is rejecting the opportunity to feed his sheep. it is rejecting the service which we beliefe is part of the plan, not having the opportunity for what ever reason is not having the opportunity and as such noone is judged for not taking an opportunity they did not have.
insult? I merely showed you paralel behavior to your own, I have not acused you of any malice other than hating us mormons.
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
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TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
Wow, the lolz never stopped!
KraftwithaK 2 months ago
@Cheshu1
even more interesting is that while you insist your interpretation is the only way to interpret what was said, that many black mormons would disagree with you. but I guess you're right and they are wrong. (and you'd have to be on pot to think any black mormon had not been told about them being denied the priesthood until what ever the year was... you mormon haters far outnumber mormons
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1
interesting that you have such unwavering hatred for us, but that must be the christlike love as displayed by dove world outreach and westboro... there has never been any claim of blacks serving whites in the afterlife of mormon theology. again, they never pronounced a curse upon them, they said that they had been cursed through their lineage, that black skin was the mark of cain and that they were not to be given the priesthood at that point in time.
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1 well then the god of the old testiment is shameful. just because the bible did not specify blacks by lineage does not mean hte bible did not specify people by lineage. acording to mormon theology everyone has the same opportunity, in fact mormons are hte only christian religion which believes there is opportunity in the afterlife for those who did not recieve the opportunity in this life.
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1
regardless, to say the mormon prophets cursed them is a lie especially if you do not beleive the mormon prophets have the power to curse. our prophets express what it is that they believe is the will of god and they expressed that it is not yet time for blacks to have the priesthood just as the non levites were not allowed the pristehood. how dare you lie about them. thou shalt not bear false witness is one of the 10 laws moses brought down... making it kinda a biggy.
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1
I made no attempt to decieve. they said the black skin was the curse of cain, they did not cast some "curse of cain" on them as your sentence structure denotes. you may believe that god does not bless or punish people by their ancestors choices but that is not inline with the bible. if god can punish adams descendants for his sin and cansanite children for their parents sins... then why can't he punish cains descendants for cains sin?
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1
I know we fought in the mexican war, that is why I said "yet annother" (not to mention having to be prepared if the mormon war ever had a battle)
blacks were denied the priesthood for the same reason all isrealites except for the levites were denied the priesthood. god said so.
TAPriceCTR 2 months ago
@Cheshu1 yeah, we had already been driven from "civilized" america and had to settle the most imhospitable land on the continent, I mean seriously... not just desert, but salt flats!!!! the romans used salt to ensure their enemies could not restore their strength by preventing agriculture. we were not in any position to help with yet annother war.
TAPriceCTR 3 months ago
go mitt romney
amyanndurfee 3 months ago
fairmormon org for questions
averagellama 3 months ago
@kmiarussi
Finally, mormons are called mormons because they beileve in the Book of Mormon. idiot. Im an exmormon and you are a freaking disgrace.
averagellama 3 months ago
@kmiarussi
WOAH WOAH WOAH! Tithing?! You mean that thing Abraham paid to Melchizedek in the Bible... that cant be right. Furthermore you dont have to pay tithing to stay in the church you only have to pay tithing to have callings and go to the temple. As far as humanitarian aid goes there is a thing called Helping Hands. Also the church does tons of service but theres only like 5 mil members in the states. the real question is how come we dont here more from the Mega Churches?
averagellama 3 months ago
@kmiarussi
Mormons didn't help create this country? sigh i hope you dont get to vote and don't reproduce. why dont you hop over here:
JFK on Mormons
and see what JFK had to say about mormons.
A religion that has seperate rooms in there temples?!?! what the heck! that sounds just like the temples in the old testamnet! GASP!
Also there is this thing called a visitors cente near most temples...
averagellama 3 months ago
@kmiarussi
time for your ignorance to DIE.
Mormonism is not a cult. It may be to you because of your definition of a cult(aka a religion i dont like) but hey im a fair sport so ill play by your rules. A cult is "A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister."
Hmmmm... where have a read something like that before... OH WAIT! Weren't Christians once considered strange and sinister because they believed in Christ? Yes yes they wer
averagellama 3 months ago
Also "Mormon" is a nickname that was given to the church by the community that dissaproves of them (Moron). The LDS adopted the term as a way to decrease and eliminate it's influence.
kmiarussi 3 months ago
Gotta love a "religion" that has a seperate NonMormon waiting room in their temples because they have a "secret" wedding ritual. What other church have you been to where those of different faiths(or no faiths) are prohibited from property? Also requiring a 10% tiething from every member regardless of their financial standing in order to be in good standing(and to remain) in the church is horrible. Funny how you never hear of any goodwill non-missionary/preaching work that they do for the poor.
kmiarussi 3 months ago
By definition Mormon is a cult, just because they have become more mainstream does not change the facts. I wouldn't vote for a Mormon president, no way. Also the Mormon religion did not help to build this country, they seperated themselves from it and had planned to create their own country in Utah. Mormonism was created in the United States therefore there were never any "Mormon Pioneers" they left the US.
kmiarussi 3 months ago
Mormonisim.....where to even begin....its almost as wacky as scientology. good thing mitt wont win.
OsyenVyeter 3 months ago
@marflet11 ??? Whoa dude... What did the Mormons do to make u so pissed
reezyrobyn 3 months ago
He's Mormon, that's all I need to know. Not voting a Mormon into the White House, wouldn't be prudent.
Marflet11 4 months ago
@Cheshu1 Second, do some research. Genesis Ch. 4 tells of Cain receiving a mark from God as part of his punishment for killing his brother Abel. Many modern Christians, not just LDS (or Mormons) have viewed this to mean black skin. Preaching as such is not very common anymore, but used to be commonplace, not just in the LDS church. It has never been considered doctrine in our church, however. And once again, even if this was what was meant, that would be Cain's condemnation, not his children's.
adampoole6 4 months ago
@Cheshu1 First off, that scritpture is referring, not to black people but to ancient people in America, namely two brothers named Laman and Lemuel, and their descendants. The curse was meant for the condemnation of the two brothers, and the part about it being so they wouldn't be "enticing" to Nephi's people was for the same reason as the Israelites were told in the old testament not to marry non-Israelites. That is, so they wouldn't pick up on their wicked ways. No difference.
adampoole6 4 months ago
@Cheshu1
Here too? Grow up!
"all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color."
Official declaration 2
Doctrine and Covenants
gusgusthecamarolover 5 months ago
its weird but its not a cult
TheRivetthead 5 months ago
holy shit she is hot. is she mormon? oh shit that sucks.
abledanger6 6 months ago
That was just painful
MithrynMarious 6 months ago
@Restoration1830: thanks for the explanation..thats the way to approach people of the gospel(:
amely1fan 11 months ago
America DID put a JW in the White house.It was Dwight D Eisenhower .
IRISHBUDDAFILTH 11 months ago
babe .total babe. babaliciuos.schwing!
7t6e354r 1 year ago
Man, "Jessica Dawn". Sounds like a porn actress. :)
atheismo 7 months ago
@atheismo looks like one to :)
dfrog55 7 months ago
So did you hit that shit yet?
dooshmasta 1 year ago
dude plutogirl.. one thing that u should kno about a mormon is that we do have a book about Jesus Christ either u want to believe it or not the book of mormon is the american Bible basically.. when Christ rezed he didnt just visit one particular part of the world.. for all we kno he visited over in asia but there r no records of him being there... and another thing is Romney didnt make it public he was mormon that was what reporters did so it wasnt us trying to get attention for our religion.
TopDog717 1 year ago
Romney made solemn vows backed by blood oaths & death threats in a MORmON temple to ALWAYS PUT BUILDING THE MORmON KINGDOM ABOVE ALL ELSE!
Then the LYING POS comes on National TV & says he would not give undue consideration to his cult religion & he expects ppl to believe him? what an ass ! MORmON!
pearclips 1 year ago
i hope Mitt Romney is the Republican nominee: he'll get is ass handed to him because he's a Mormon, and deservedly so.
At least when JFK ran 50 years ago as a RC, they were real Christians. there's no damn way the GOP will let that happen, i.e., give away the election by allowing Romney to represent them.
EastofForever 1 year ago
@The Mmmateiro i agree its no big deal honestly how cares if he is mormon
GamingCentralMaster 1 year ago
I think that unfortunately a Mormon will be in the White House when the South freezes over. Hardcore Evangelicals (who predominate in the South) would rather slit their own throats than ever vote for a Mormon! The South is very important, especially during Republican presidential primaries!! They will never vote for a Mormon! Ever!! Never!!
plutogirllovekj 1 year ago
I dont think that people should say "a Mormon in the white house???" whats wrong with that? we have just as much right as running for office as any other religion.... Freedom of Religion.....
THESWEETJK24 1 year ago
Mitt Romney in 2012!!!!
Fhirinne 1 year ago
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I am very thankful for the teachings of the church and teachings of Jesus Christ and his gospel. My life would have little or no meaning without him. It has also given me a perspective to love all others unconditionally, even those who do not believe in following Jesus Christ or do not believe in God at all. However, personally I believe that doesn't mean He doesn't believe in them and all of his children. May we all learn to be happy and grateful for what we do have versus what we don't.
Fhirinne 1 year ago
fuck mormons
frizzzzzzal 1 year ago
@leahhj3 Mormons are liars. Mormons say they know their church is true without giving court quality evidence. In other words Mormons are continuously bearing false witness.
Angeleer8 1 year ago
@Angeleer8 court quality evidence??
name 5 churches who have "court quality evidence" and give me an example of what exactly you mean by court quality evidence?
...that makes no sense at all
thanks for sounding dumb :-)
Irunxc17 1 year ago
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@Angeleer8 uhh court quality evidence??
name 5 churches who have "court quality evidence" and give me an example of what exactly you mean by court quality evidence
...that makes no sense at all
thanks for sounding dumb :-)
Irunxc17 1 year ago
yeah...and this is when i renounce my american citizenship and flee to canada
1blackwed1 1 year ago
i Would love if Mitt romney was president of america
Lordmanify 1 year ago
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@Lordmanify Mitt Romney will never be president of the United States.
Angeleer8 1 year ago
112 thumbs down? only 80 thumbs up. Wow, people really don't like Mitt. Might be cause he changed his mind on abortion. Or maybe cause his universal health care in Mass. Not sure, but I do not think anyone would ever elect him POTUS.
mdlinks 1 year ago
@mdlinks Exactly. Mitt Romney should be judged on his political career not his religion. That said, to anyone who ever waved flip flops to ridicule John Kerry then in all honesty you should get an industrial fan to mimic Mitt. he says exactly what his audience wants to hear, but it changes with every audience. He makes Julia Roberts character in "Runaway Bride" look decisive by comparison.
Gordo1108 1 year ago
@Gordo1108 check this one out:
watch?v=y6DrH6P9OC0
Mitt is an idiot.
mdlinks 1 year ago
As much as I know that it is a fraud, I'd still rather have a Mormon president than a neo-Marxist Black-Liberation theology radical president, an America-hater who wants to "fundamentally transform" the country into something he and his ugly wife want it to be.
I'll take a Mormon over that any day.
HonkIfYouLoveHonking 1 year ago
I guess it's a good thing that Al Sharpton wasn't elected, eh? And he might not have been elected had George Bush been a decent President.
But no, there will likely never be a Mormon President, as more than 80% of all Americans know that something's wrong with Mormonism, even if they can't exactly explain what that is.
moparmonster1965 1 year ago
@moparmonster1965 hahahaaa. Of course you know who I was talking about. The Rev. Wright's main man, Barak Hussein Obama! Our Dear Leader. The Saviour! (He's our black Adolf Hitler and a fraud).
Tomorrow, hopefully, his Jihad against American free enterprise will start to come to an end.
HonkIfYouLoveHonking 1 year ago
I assume you're referring to the healthcare bill, which, upon closer investigation, really contains no downside. You might complain about the increase in rates, to which I'd point out that they rise every year. You could complain about the Federal Government mandating everyone be covered, which affects free market capitalism and I'd respond that with no yearly cap and no restrictions on pre-existing conditions, you'd be thankful should you develop a serious illness like cystic fibrosis.
moparmonster1965 1 year ago
@moparmonster1965 No I'm talking about much more. Taxes, regulations, more and more govenment intrusion. But his healthcare scam is the biggest. It is going to be a disaster if it's not stopped.
But what a great idea. We should make all insurance like that, I'd love to have a similar plan with auto insurance. Pay a relatively small fine every year until I actually have an accident, and THEN get the insurance. Obama is aiming to put the insurance companies out of business.
HonkIfYouLoveHonking 1 year ago
Assuming you're correct, which, of course, you're not, after their stellar showing after Hurricane Katrina, those same insurance companies don't deserve to be put out of business? People pay hundreds of millions of dollars per year to insurance companies and then get the shaft? Even you know that's not ethical.
moparmonster1965 1 year ago
@moparmonster1965 You've heard the term "single payer". Obama wants the government to be that. It's the goal of the socialist left. And putting insurance compainies out of business is a necessity for that
Insurance companies are much more ethical than a crony-gifting government that adds trillions to the debt every year with no plans of ever being fiscally responsible. That's nothing but enslavement of future generations.
Respond if you like but no matter what you say. I'm thru with you.
HonkIfYouLoveHonking 1 year ago
You've clearly never been denied coverage for something you were lead to believe you were paying for in the first place. Insurance companies hire legions of lawyers who look for ways to get out of paying claims they ought to be paying in the first place.
And then exit behavior? I expect that out of Mormon apologists, not someone who wants to talk about politics. You just undermined your own weak position.
moparmonster1965 1 year ago
Ah, you finally reveal yourself to be a conspiracy theorist. Now it all makes sense; I assume you believe that Americans are being rounded up into concentration camps, too, eh?
moparmonster1965 1 year ago
@moparmonster1965 You've heard of the Cloward_Piven strategy? It's a real strategy and Piven is a friend of Obama (Cloward is dead but no doubt would be a friend of B.O.'s if he was still kicking). There's no "theory" about anything the Magic Negro does. He's surrounded by leftwing 60s style radicals who are enemies of free enterprise and America. It's reality not a conspiracy theory.
HonkIfYouLoveHonking 1 year ago
@HonkIfYouLoveHonking absolutely and he actually does have a much better track record than Obama. Obama pretty much came out of the stall dragging his heals and pushing this country the other direction towards socialism/marxism and away from the US Constitution and everything the founding fathers intended, we'll be lucky to have any freedoms left by 2012. God bless America!
Fhirinne 1 year ago
If Mormonism isn't a cult, why do family members who leave the church get disowned by their parents? Because it is. Just like scientology or various fundie covens.
NutNapalm 1 year ago
@NutNapalm A bit of a general sweeping statement t my friend. Its down to the individual families. In all walks of life family members disown relatives. A friend of mine is gay he told his parents, they disowned him. My sisters's Catholic girlfriend feel in love with a Jew, she converted, guess what happened. Cult is such an easy peg for the ignorant and ill informed to hang their hats on when they cant be bothered to find out the real reasons and circumstamces. No offence intented.
gateway1965 1 year ago
@NutNapalm Learn your facts.
Pianoism023 1 year ago
@poderosoboricua: Er....actually, "arguments" have always been made in defense of truth to help others see the light. Don't get me wrong, I agree, contention is of the devil, so people should be kind and civil, but pointing out things to try and help people see your point of view doesn't MEAN you're afraid you're wrong.
@Kagura134: Yes, being a Christian means that you follow Christ's teachings, one of which would be not calling your brother "Raca" AKA "idiot." Let's PROVE we're Christian.=)
americanpatriot17 1 year ago
Americans are wierd!! Instead of electing a White Mormon president that is as Christian as they come, they vote on a Afrikan Muslim President, that people actually don´t even know if he is really American!!!.... How dumm is it?
TheMmmateiro 1 year ago
@TheMmmateiro It's not dumb. Your racism is.
MaoiMeowi2 1 year ago
@MaoiMeowi2 .... Yeah right I am racist!, and you are being prejudice which is the same as racist, just because the guy is a MORMON, you question his belief, what about obama then? he is no DUMMER than OBAMA... actually he is pretty bright! got more money than me and you could ever dream. Good luck with your reality in America.
TheMmmateiro 1 year ago
@TheMmmateiro You automatically think the guy's a better president because he's white. In reality, he would have the same problems Obama does currently. I mentioned nothing about him being a Mormon.
MaoiMeowi2 1 year ago
Not at all my friend, What I was criticising is that people did not ask what religion Obama was, eventhough was pretty clear he was muslim, and guess what muslims are ok by me too! But why do America make such a Big deal to an Mormon in the White house since mormon Pioneers helped build up your country! specially the west, Weren´t for them! Plus there are countless important mormons making a diference In the CIA, FBI, NSA, and etc.. even the last white house spokesman was Mormon. did you know?
TheMmmateiro 1 year ago 23
@TheMmmateiro OK, so how does a history of a people determine how good someone will be at leading a country?
MaoiMeowi2 1 year ago
Well I did not say that! but since you ask, I believe when people are able to abide to certain rules, and moral codes regardless if that makes you popular or not is already a plus. if that person tells you he will do something, most likely they will! Mr. Obama told the american people that the health care reform would not pay for abortion, now Tax payers are paying for Abortion. So if history repeats itself most likely mormons Can get the Job Done once again. and trust me I am not mormon
TheMmmateiro 1 year ago
@TheMmmateiro Politicians always lie. By the way, don't say I don't follow my promises (it's what you implied when you said that Mormons get the job done).
History has no correlation to a particular individual.
MaoiMeowi2 1 year ago
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@TheMmmateiro freeevangelism co m / Go there and see the shocking truth about Jesus Christ vs Joseph smith DVD .On the right hand side. SHOCKING
Horses4life1001 1 year ago
@TheMmmateiro If you think nobody was asking about Obama's religion then you were clearly not paying attention and Obama is not a Muslim. I respect Mormons because of their focus on education but you clearly didn't follow in their footsteps.
wheresmycrownyo 1 year ago
@TheMmmateiro Mormons are educated and need to run the usa and it will be done with integrity.
hilenaakins 4 months ago
But sorry meant not to offend you
TheMmmateiro 1 year ago
i raised mormon worst time of my life so controlling u know they didnt allow blacks until the 70s!?
6teddy6bear6 1 year ago
this was funny.
asiteforsoreeyeballs 1 year ago
Arguments are not triggered by fear... lol... would you start arguing if your worst fear happened? really? I'd like to see that.
mothyberry 1 year ago
Mitt Romney? Really? People really need to see For Liberty: How the Ron Paul Revolution Watered the Withered Tree of Liberty - A Grassroots Documentary.
christiantruth1021 1 year ago
I think people should get over their prejudice about his religion and judge the man on his capabilities.
MorganMarvinson 1 year ago
@MorganMarvinson "judge the man on his capabilities"? Which "man"? Are you referring to Joseph Smith Jr.? If so, which "capabilities" should we judge him by? How about his ability to sleep with other men's wives (adultery)? Or what about deceiving thousands of people? Or my personal favorite, his ability to invent a new religion and proclaim false prophecies. Yes, a very capable man indeed!
chriscb 1 year ago
@chriscb Joseph Smith isn't running for the American presidency. Don't be ridiculous!
MorganMarvinson 1 year ago
@MorganMarvinson No, that would be kind of hard since he is dead. That's why I asked "which man" you were referring to.
chriscb 1 year ago
@chriscb Isn't this video about Mitt Romney?
MorganMarvinson 1 year ago
Mitt WiLL be the Next PresiDent of the USA.......
FireYourJOB 1 year ago
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@FireYourJOB Mitt Romney will never be the president of the United States.
Angeleer8 1 year ago
Vote Mitt Romney
FireYourJOB 1 year ago
@FireYourJOB Not happening!
MormonUnApologist 1 year ago
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@FireYourJOB Mitt Romney will never be the president of the United States.
Angeleer8 1 year ago
please...just stop bickering.
Rockst89ar 1 year ago
huge jew idiot
khattamshud 1 year ago
Here are some references regarding polygamy and the practice by the gods and those who will be [gods] as a result of the exaltation of human beings to godhood, as found in the teachings of the Mormon church.
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. ...I heard the revelation on polygamy, and I believe it with all my heart, and I know it is from God..."
LDS President and Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 269, August 19, 1866.
audiofringe 1 year ago
He said, "I believe it with all of my heart..."
but in no place does this constitute revelation for the whole church... for if it were, he would have said, "For thus saith the Lord..."
He believed it, while living the law of plural marriage, that if it was important for his salvation like it may have been important for Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that it must also be an important principle of the restored gospel.
I sense a lack in knowing the difference between doctrine and his personal beliefs.
ToThisEndWasIMormon 1 year ago
sorry communist! haha.. thats fairly hilarious.
soopermexican 2 years ago
The only reason I looked at all of this video is because she looks frosty flakes Grrreat!
tribexa 2 years ago
Mormon in the white house!!! NOOOOO!!!! I used to be one!!! Noooo!
SoCalGuy20 2 years ago
I'm a Mormon, and when I first heard that Mitt Romney was running for president, all I could think was "just don't embarrass us too badly."
But then I read this book, and all I could think was "Mitt Romney SHOULD be president." Thanks, Hugh.
Funny video, by the way.
PaperbackWizard 2 years ago
Are you serious!? The man has no clue at all when it comes to the Constitution, which also means no clue about freedom. Either that or he has chosen to ignore it during his time in politics. Just because a man is LDS does not mean he should get the support from the saints.
Captain077 2 years ago
I didn't say I supported him because he was LDS; I said I supported him after reading the book. I also support him because, ever since I read the book, I've watched him closely while he campaigned for himself and for other candidates, including some in my own state. He's not perfect, but neither is he the anti-Constitutionalist you make him out to be.
PaperbackWizard 2 years ago
Well lets see, he supports cap and trade, he signed legislation requiring all in his state to buy insurance, backed the brady bill, flip flopped on abortion,(shouldn't even be questioned if your LDS) supports both wars, and supports certain aspects of "enhance interrogation" all of which is unconstitutional. Speaking of the Constitution, the Lord taught "...whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil." D&C 98:7
Captain077 2 years ago
Well, first of all, the LDS Church does allow for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother's life is in danger. It's recreational abortion (my term) that we oppose. Second, Romney didn't flip-flop on it; his position evolved, just as Ronald Reagan's and George H.W. Bush's did (which is discussed in the book, by the way). It was never a question of whether he personally supported it, but whether he would "impose" his beliefs as executive (which, his record, shows he did).
PaperbackWizard 2 years ago
In the case of rape, incest, harm to mother, child won't live past birth, abortion is okay. However, Romney has pioneer heritage right? How could this be a fuzzy issue for him? How could he be afraid to "impose" his belief on another in an effort to save a life? And its not just the abortion issue. They man has done more against the constitution than for it. How could we expect him to uphold an oath to protect it when he is guilty of attacking it?
Captain077 2 years ago
He wasn't afraid to; that was my point. He governed as pro-life. When a team of scientists, from Harvard I believe, came to the governor's office with their proposal to institute a de facto embryo factory to harvest stem cells, he closed the door. That was his "turning point", you might say. Many Mormon (and Catholic) politicians are pro-life but choose to govern or legislate as pro-choice; Romney was (and is) a pro-lifer.
PaperbackWizard 2 years ago
The abortion issue is debatable. If life begins a conception, the abortion should be illegal. If it begins at 3 months, then it should be illegal at 3 months. However, what is not debatable is all his other stances that he took, a few of which I have listed, are unconstitutional. The president (and every other elected official) swears to uphold the constitution. If he couldn't do it while governor, then I will not support him for president.
Captain077 2 years ago
As for the wars being unconstitutional, I'm no lawyer, but I don't believe that we're technically at war right now. Congress hasn't declared it, but it has given the president (both Obama and Bush) the leash to move troops around and engage in combat. If you'd prefer that we either declare war or withdraw, of course, that's another issue. Obviously, Romney would be in favor of declaring war.
Like I said, he's not perfect; but he is a great man, and I would proud to vote for him.
PaperbackWizard 2 years ago
Exactly! Congress hasn't declared it, hence making our actions over the ILLEGAL/UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Nor has congress the power to give the president the war powers it has. I'm not even sure what we are doing over there? Being a veteran myself, from a line of veterans, with three family members currently serving, one in Iraq, another in Afghanistan, just adds to the frustration. I just wish we actually applied the supreme law of the land. Save us from a lot of our current troubles.
Captain077 2 years ago
@Captain077 have you talked to your relations serving in the war? Do they believe what they are doing is right?
tinkerbellwantabe 2 years ago
One brother in law is a pediatric doctor, so he is not directly involved with the fight. However, he does question as to why we are there. The other two, one in Iraq the other afghanistan don't seem to be all too concerned or knowledgeable about the constitution or really why we are their. They don't like being there, but they don't really understand why they shouldn't be there.
Captain077 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PaperbackWizard Mitt Romney will never be the president of United States.
Angeleer8 1 year ago
moparmonster... J. Smith wasn't alive at the time the LDS church arrived in Utah.
Firetruck0809 2 years ago
He's speaking of Joseph F. Smith, Firetruck. None the less, it doesn't mean that anything that moparmonster says is truth. Most are ramblings of a sad and angry man - and always taken out of context. By the way, the Bible teaches all of the concepts listed below which moparmonster asks about.
Spiritgirl4ever 2 years ago
to awolLDS... poligamy was stopped in the LDS church when God commanded it. Other mormon sects that still practiced it are not to be confused with LDS members.
to Bidimus1... many con artists make up things to controdict the mormon church. and if you understood more of what the ressurection is, you would have not made that statement containing the scripture from mathew.
Firetruck0809 2 years ago
The only problem is that your prophet, Joseph F Smith, was convicted of violating Utah's anti-polygamy laws in 1906. A second Manifesto then had to be issued. If they were following the rules in the first place, why would they have to make it clear a second time? And why did your prophet choose to break god's law?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
Funny how god suddenly decided that man's laws were more important than his own. Don't believe me? Look into the Edmunds-Tucker Act of 1887. It gave the Federal Govenment the ability to seize church property and put its polygamous members in jail, didn't it? And on the eve of the temples being seized, god issues the decree that polygamy is suddenly not required. Pretty convenient, huh?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
You don't know much about polygamy, do you? I mean, other than the lies the church tells about it. Since D&C 132 revolves around polygamy and it is called a "new and everlasting covenant," it should be eternal, right? Instead, it only lasted 47 years from the time of the revelation (though Smith was a polygamist from as early as 1831) until it was renounced in 1890.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
lol great video!!
nimodopadonde 2 years ago
One only argues doctrine, if he or she have doubts about what they believe. Argument is a defence, triggered by the fear that what they believe may not be true. Arguing religion is a waste of time, as the truth can only be determined by a calm spirit. Contention is of the devil, so please stop arguing.
poderosoboricua 2 years ago 12
pure wisdom my friend, a message to all of you, listen to your souls, do not deject any idea. God will find you, and you will find him under the light he was ment to be under for you
godsend171 2 years ago
Indeed, if more would put their trust in the Lord in mighty prayer and supplication, they wouldn't have to look to the right or the left and see what they should do or how they should believe!
The spirit witnesses the truth. (1 John 5:5-6)
and we can ask God ourselves! (James 1:5-6)
Well said, my friend!
ToThisEndWasIMormon 1 year ago
@poderosoboricua An argument is to get two sides of a viewpoint to prove what they believe is true with facts, as in a court case. It doesn't mean that it involves anger or hate.
We're suppose to teach the truth if we see that someone is being lead astray. It's definitely not a waste of time if you care. Truth is determined by facts.
christiantruth1021 1 year ago
@poderosoboricua
Mormon Missionaries are in all parts of the world and argue doctrine every day. I have had several arguments with them when they have approached me with their nonsense. They get very heated during the discussion. They must be of the devil with all that contention.
mdlinks 1 year ago
None of you know Mormon doctrine. Yes some men have been sealed with more than one wife for eternity, but this is not for personal gain. If it were the covenant they made in the temple would be void and they could not enter into the presence of God. Be careful to judge others, lest you be judged the same way yourself at the judgement seat of God.
Firetruck0809 2 years ago
Mormon doctrine can be interpreted many ways and to soften it doesn't make it right. Personal gain? God never told them to keep polygamy active. This was never from God. It was the brethren that could not let go of the extra wives idea.
The wicked will be judged.
The righteous will be rewarded.
Who are the righteous you ask?
The faithfull who believe that Jesus is the almighty God and paid for all sin on the cross.
This completely destroys Mormon doctrine where Christ is a spirit brother
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
ur argument does not make sense. so i guess according to u abraham and israel where evil men oh thats right they had more then one wife. oh yeah if u dont believe in christ being your spirit brother i guess u do not read the bible. because its constantly saying how he prayed unto God the father.
hawaiianjake 2 years ago
I am glad you have a full knowledge of what every one else knows.
Lets see
"First vision" at least 10 different account that contradict each other on major points, one of which in (1832) in j.smiths own handwriting is completely contradictory of the "official: version of 1838
with a foundation like that, its pretty difficult to see j.smith as a very reliable source.
Not to mention he was known to be a "glass looker" i.e. a con man.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
Come on! A WHITE CHRISTIAN Conservative MORMON man can't be in the white house? if a Black Muslim can, why can't An American Mormon Christian?
Daveidxd 2 years ago
Does the contradiction "Mormon Christian" mean anything to you?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
you're an idiot, being a Christian means that you follow Christ's teachings which Mormons do.
Kagura134 2 years ago 13
Since you are Christians, please tell me where in the BOM I can find Jesus teaching of God being married, of us all being spiritual sinlings, that he's an exalted being and that we, too, can become gods, anything about the pre-mortal existance, that God has a physical body, that there are three levels of Heaven, that polygamy would be permitted even while it was publicly denounced, that he, God, and the Holy Spirit are separate and distinct, or that he atoned for our sins in the Garden.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
Probably the same way you believe all that you do, from a prophet. The difference between you and the LDS community is they don't believe God has sealed the heavens. They believe the God still talks to prophets in this day, just as he had in ancient times. Oh, that, and just about everything else they believe can be found in the bible.
Captain077 2 years ago
Please tell me where in the Bible I can find Jesus teaching of God being a married polygamist, of us all being spiritual siblings, that he's an exalted being and that we, too, can become gods, anything about the pre-mortal existance, that God has a physical body, that Jesus killed two men at the Crucifixion, that polygamy would be permitted even while it was publicly denounced, that he, God, and the Holy Spirit are separate and distinct, or that he atoned for our sins in the Garden.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
haha but we dont belive God is a polygamist. Tell me how would God talk to Jesus if they were 1 person. why would jesus pray to God in gethsemeni if he were God. Why would Jesus say worship God and return to my father if he were pretty much is father. Why wouldnt we be able to become Gods if we llived righteous lives on earth.
iRejectLikeAjerk 2 years ago
You don't now but the early church once did. This shows that the church is an evolution, not a restoration.
Those are good points, but didn't Jesus also say that if you'd seen him, you already seen God?
You're assuming that we can fully understand and comprehend the creator of the universe, the maker of everything. I say nothing could be farther from the truth.
God doesn't owe us an explanation about his nature or goals.
Because that would make God much less powerful and unique.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
well I guess you maybe have some ponts there. But Jesus Is not God. He is like God, hes perfect like God, but different. If you were mormon youd realize that Its a great true religion. I just did babtisms for the dead in the temple and it was so amazing. Trust me, Mormons have answers to all your questions I mean Look at President Monson, or deider F uchtdorf, or Eyring. THey are amazing people, and by them i know the church is true
iRejectLikeAjerk 2 years ago
God must have apparently changed his opinion about his own nature, I guess, huh?
Not only that, but Jehovah in the fictional Book of Abraham is also not Jesus, in spite of what you've been told.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
He's not in current Mormonism, but in the first printing of the BOM, he most certainly was and he's the change that proves it:
These records shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that
the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior (BOM, 1830, p.32)
These records shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father and the Savior (BOM, 1 Nephi 14:30)
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
@iRejectLikeAjerk You said that you know the church is true. Show me court quality evidence. If you canot show me, you are bearing false witness.
Angeleer8 1 year ago
@Angeleer8
Well since you asked ill give you a 'factual' reference then point to what Jesus said.
look up "the book of mormon on trial". At a law school to graduate one class the professor (a former judge) had each student pick something to defend against the rest of the class. Almost none ever won. Well, long and short (find the book to get the details yourself) this guy won handily.
From the bible, 'faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" and other such
C0rran05 1 year ago
Alright u want some evidence?? i got tons ill throw some at you one at a time hehe. Look up Doctrine and Covenants Secton 87 versus 1-4. if u dont have a Book of Mormon look it up on the internet. Theres one of many things for u. to sum it up: a prophesy that was fulfilled about 30 years later..the civil war..have fun! :)
iRejectLikeAjerk 1 year ago
@iRejectLikeAjerk Yes we do.
audiofringe 1 year ago
We really don't know otherwise.
Until we return to meet our father in heaven, we can only speculate as to what this will be like.
We are given line upon line and precept upon precept. According to the doctrines of the church as they are being administered on the earth, this is all we need for salvation and exaltation... and it's all we need to know for now. Sure, it would be wonderful to have added insight but as far as the church is concerned, all saving ordinances are available to the world.
ToThisEndWasIMormon 1 year ago 2
@ToThisEndWasIMormon Uh, salvation was available to all long before Joe Smith walked the earth. You Mormons treat him like some sort of God.
MormonUnApologist 1 year ago
@MormonUnApologist
He's not a god........
He is the 1st true Prophet of God in this the last dispensation of time......
FireYourJOB 1 year ago
@MormonUnApologist
Nope. We treat him like a modern Moses because that is what is. Having prophets in Israel once again is a very important thing but it does not sub plant Jesus Christ. Even Moses pointed the children of Israel towards "he who would come" awaiting the coming of the Messiah but even the children of Israel would perish or would be cut off from the Lord if they did not need the words of the prophet. (See Numbers chapter 21)
Prophets act as the Lord's mouthpiece when not around.
ToThisEndWasIMormon 1 year ago
@ToThisEndWasIMormon why then is Smith being testified of? (as in" I know that joseph smith is a prophet")
thesiRisacc 1 year ago
@Kagura134 unfortunately that is not the case... you do not know the meaning of christian
thesiRisacc 1 year ago
@thesiRisacc REALLY? Are you saying that the fact we believe Jesus Christ to be the head of our church, That He is Gods begotten son, and that He died for our sins, doesn't make us christian. that our constant study of Christ's teachings & examples doesn't qualify us as Christians? The book of Mormon states "We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, & we prophesy of Christ." It's obvious Mormons are supposed to be Christians, so please enlighten me on how, since you know?
NAMBLARep 1 year ago 20
@NAMBLARep Is Jesus your ONLY way to be saved? (and by saved I mean living with God in heaven)
thesiRisacc 1 year ago
@NAMBLARep And in none of that does it say that you believe Christ's grace is sufficient to save you from your sins. Oh, no. Because you believe in Joe Smith and the false prophets that followed you also think you have to earn your salvation. That's what removes Mormons from mainstream Christianity - by all that doing of things and temple work you have to buy your way in to heaven. Romney will never get in to the White House btw.
MormonUnApologist 1 year ago
@NAMBLARep
Well said
FireYourJOB 1 year ago
@NAMBLARep Real Christians would alway love their neighbor as themselves. You Mormons have the inability to love your neighbors as yourselves. For example, top Mormon leaders (from bishop to apostle) are required to be married when they receive their positions of authority. When top Mormon leaders attempt to illegalize same-sex marriage through their front group (National Organization For Marriage,) they demonstrate that they do not love homosexuals as themselves..
Angeleer8 1 year ago
@NAMBLARep I thought Mormons believed Joseph Smith to be the head of the church. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. When I talk to Mormons, I don't hear much about Jesus, only Joseph Smith.
OCARINA