@wladys678 I don't know but I find that hard to believe as the Russian army in 1914 had a major shortage of machine guns - I have figures somewhere for those used at Tannenburg and Masurian Lakes when the Russian army was in much better shape. As for the Soviets having 500 tanks at the Battle of Warsaw I am afraid I do not believe it. I could believe it if I saw reliable information of it though.
@alanheath I took that information from wikipedia, if in the future I find a better source providing different data, I'd post it here. But you are missing the drama of situation when after long retreat Polish Army begun a counter offensive, which NOBODY expected, nobody believed in, when all foreign diplomatic corp leaft Warsaw and Pilsudski deserted the Polish Army. Soviet invasion was a well prepared action to install communism not just in Poland but in rest of Europe.
@wladys678 I do not believe that the Soviet invasion was a well prepared action - it was an advance from the Dniepr river which had ran out of steam. The Soviets clearly did not believe that they would put Poland out the war because their HQ was so far back.
I believe that many see this with the benefit of hindsight.
@alanheath I was going to say, youv'e missed a major memorial cemetery to the heroes of that battle, it is located just 1/2 kilometer off the highway from Warsaw to Bialystok and Wilno, at the outskirts of Radzymin. This cemetary has been filmed and is available on many YT clips, it is a site of annual wreath laying ceremonies. I communist times it mwas neglected and even the city of Radzymin was deliberately deprived funds to punished it for the year 1920.
@wladys678 Wikipedia is often misleading but it is very nice to use - I know the person who started it, Jimmy Wales, and he would be the first person to admit this.
@alanheath I know very well that wikipedia is generally not reliable. In this case though, case of major importance, where not only Poland is interested, but Russia and other power-broker cirlcles, I think that a false data woul'd quickly got corrected.
You are visibly under influence of hypocritical line of England, which always tried to play down Poland's efforts to safeguard its independence.
@wladys678 No, I am neutral - I try to see all points of view. You on the other hand sound like someone who has been brainwashed by the nationalist right in Poland whose very last interest is pointing out the truth when it conflicts with the ideas of power and money.
@alanheath Listen Alan, we have already met a month ago twice on 15 July,11 when I commented your work on Belzec-baker part II and on "Munich 1938", so refrain from placing labels on me and pay attention to facts only !!!. I think, these 3 films commented by me prove my objectivity. In this case I can not accept your commentary by reason of violating basic evidence. You might consider yourself an objective, which ought not to prevent you from learning data that is new to you.
@wladys678 I can't remember - I get lots of people writing to me. As for my objectivity, I have yet to meet someone who was not blinded by nationalism, hate, racism or something similar who ever questioned it.
As far as hypocrisy is concerned, I also fail to see it.
"it was not a miracle at all, because Soviet lines were greatly extended" - as for conclusion -you've got to be joking, you are totally misrepresenting description of that war. 1920 war: soviet invading army/Red Army/ 950,000-/almost a million/+5 million in reserve vs.Polish 360,000-, 738,000-in reserve. TRUE, it was not a miracle, but thanks to great command of general Rozwadowski at Warsaw and Sikorski at Wkra, determination of Polish soldier, solid intelligence work.
I should have also added 15,000- Ukrainian People's Army fighting on the Polish side.
There also was 8,500 strong Russian Army on the Polish side, but being formed late practically did not participate in combat of that war.
wladys678 6 months ago
@wladys678 I suppose you are referring to anti communist (white) forces.
alanheath 6 months ago
At the battle of Warsaw Soviet forces at up to 140,000, 2450 machine guns, 600 tanks vs Polish 123,000 men, 1780 machine guns, 500 tanks.
wladys678 6 months ago
@wladys678 I don't know but I find that hard to believe as the Russian army in 1914 had a major shortage of machine guns - I have figures somewhere for those used at Tannenburg and Masurian Lakes when the Russian army was in much better shape. As for the Soviets having 500 tanks at the Battle of Warsaw I am afraid I do not believe it. I could believe it if I saw reliable information of it though.
alanheath 6 months ago
@alanheath I took that information from wikipedia, if in the future I find a better source providing different data, I'd post it here. But you are missing the drama of situation when after long retreat Polish Army begun a counter offensive, which NOBODY expected, nobody believed in, when all foreign diplomatic corp leaft Warsaw and Pilsudski deserted the Polish Army. Soviet invasion was a well prepared action to install communism not just in Poland but in rest of Europe.
wladys678 6 months ago
@wladys678 I do not believe that the Soviet invasion was a well prepared action - it was an advance from the Dniepr river which had ran out of steam. The Soviets clearly did not believe that they would put Poland out the war because their HQ was so far back.
I believe that many see this with the benefit of hindsight.
Do you know any sites from this war near Warsaw?
alanheath 6 months ago
@alanheath I was going to say, youv'e missed a major memorial cemetery to the heroes of that battle, it is located just 1/2 kilometer off the highway from Warsaw to Bialystok and Wilno, at the outskirts of Radzymin. This cemetary has been filmed and is available on many YT clips, it is a site of annual wreath laying ceremonies. I communist times it mwas neglected and even the city of Radzymin was deliberately deprived funds to punished it for the year 1920.
wladys678 6 months ago
@wladys678 Wikipedia is often misleading but it is very nice to use - I know the person who started it, Jimmy Wales, and he would be the first person to admit this.
alanheath 6 months ago
@alanheath I know very well that wikipedia is generally not reliable. In this case though, case of major importance, where not only Poland is interested, but Russia and other power-broker cirlcles, I think that a false data woul'd quickly got corrected.
You are visibly under influence of hypocritical line of England, which always tried to play down Poland's efforts to safeguard its independence.
wladys678 6 months ago
@wladys678 No, I am neutral - I try to see all points of view. You on the other hand sound like someone who has been brainwashed by the nationalist right in Poland whose very last interest is pointing out the truth when it conflicts with the ideas of power and money.
alanheath 6 months ago
@alanheath Listen Alan, we have already met a month ago twice on 15 July,11 when I commented your work on Belzec-baker part II and on "Munich 1938", so refrain from placing labels on me and pay attention to facts only !!!. I think, these 3 films commented by me prove my objectivity. In this case I can not accept your commentary by reason of violating basic evidence. You might consider yourself an objective, which ought not to prevent you from learning data that is new to you.
wladys678 6 months ago
@wladys678 I can't remember - I get lots of people writing to me. As for my objectivity, I have yet to meet someone who was not blinded by nationalism, hate, racism or something similar who ever questioned it.
As far as hypocrisy is concerned, I also fail to see it.
alanheath 6 months ago
"it was not a miracle at all, because Soviet lines were greatly extended" - as for conclusion -you've got to be joking, you are totally misrepresenting description of that war. 1920 war: soviet invading army/Red Army/ 950,000-/almost a million/+5 million in reserve vs.Polish 360,000-, 738,000-in reserve. TRUE, it was not a miracle, but thanks to great command of general Rozwadowski at Warsaw and Sikorski at Wkra, determination of Polish soldier, solid intelligence work.
wladys678 6 months ago
@wladys678 Solid intelligence work yes - maybe the Soviets can be forgiven for their lack of radio security because less was known then of it today.
alanheath 6 months ago