Brother of Jared, Barges, Ether, Book of Mormon, LDS

[Rypaul5217]

@BrotherofSteve ---um I cant see why you have to delete my comments everytime, its really getting annoying if not unnecessary. There are plenty of reasons why people speak their own minds here, but it makes sense that you are embarrassed by the opinion of others because you dont like what you hear--is a form of dishonesty to remove them...( well don't do it..)

Suppresion of public opinion and information is very typical of how you guys operate in this world.

Well good bye, and good luck.

[BrotherofSteve]

@Rypaul5217

You, sir, forget that this is my video clip. You are welcome to comment on it, but you are not welcome to be rude or disrespectful. I maintain my right to remove such. I am hardly embarrassed by your lack of civility. You embarrass yourself.

[BrotherofSteve]

@Rypaul5217,

I see your dilemma. You thought my illustration of why there might be holes in the bottom of the ships was to prove that the Book of Mormon is true. I agree that you should not be persuaded to such a conclusion by my clip. To know the truth of the Book of Mormon requires a concerted effort on your part to follow Moroni 10:4-5. This is the only way to know for yourself what I have learned. That this book contains the Word of God. Thanks for allowing me to share this with you.

[BrotherofSteve]

@Rypaul5217

Huh? Air pressure "turns towards up?" You lost me. Sorry.

All ships have ballast. That's why they stay upright. Look for example at the Fram, a Norwegian ship built in the early 1900's and designed to be frozen into the Arctic Ocean, float across the Arctic in the ice, and come out on the far side. That's exactly what it did. It was round bottomed, like a walnut. Ballast kept it upright.

Thanks for your comments. Brother of Steve.

[stevejames1012]

@1stcorinthians1vrs18....citie­s hidden just in the Yucatan alone. This is only counting Meso-America and not including South America or things like the Cahokia Mounds of Missouri.

[stevejames1012]

@1stcorinthians1vrs18 How can you say that there is no evidence of Jaredites, Mulekites or Lehites before 1800? Are you aware of the massive ancient metropolis in the Yucatan? The Inca, Aztec, Maya, Zapotec, Mixtec, Mixe and others were here long before 1800. Interestingly many of the dates of their ruins align perfectly with those of the BoM.

The Mayan Riviera is one of the most unexplored regions in terms of archaeology. Do some research and you will see that there are hundreds of .....

[jacobgotime]

Cool video! I always thought the holes were just for flipping the boat over, but I did wonder about how difficult that must have made the ride for animals, etc. This makes much more sense as a possible method. Thanks for sharing!

[stevejames1012]

@1stcorinthians1vrs18 "God can do anything, but He is not usually acting in ways that R ridiculously illogical."

Have you read the bible recently? Parting the Red Sea, bathing in the dirty river to be cured of leprosy, blowing trumpets to knock down a wall, looking at a staff to be saved from snakes. These are just a few of the many "ridiculously illogical" ways that God has done things. Are they also not true?

[Sauciflash]

Keep the videos coming, bro.

[fairldsorg]

Excellent video, thanks for taking the time to put it together and post it so we can all learn from it.

[rapterflyer49]

Hi Brother of Steve , Ether Ch 6 v10 last line quote " ...whether it was above the water or under the water." By the way , according to how I understand it , the book of Ether is not written by Ether, it is an abridgment by Moroni ( Read title words Chapter 1 Ether ) of the Plates of Ether. At 4 min 43 secs you describe the pressure buiding up inside the vessel to keep the water out. How may this affect the poor travellers do you think?

[1stcorinthians1vrs18]

@BrotherofSteve Yes, why would this verse say they were in number about 22 souls? This is a small number that could be exactly counted in less time than it would have taken to write the number. 1 boat is a much more logical way 2 transport a group of people from 1 place 2 another. The language used in the BOM would suggest a great speed in being continuously driven towards the promised land. At 1 mph they could have gone 8256 miles, I'm pretty sure that from Israel to America is less than that.

[stevejames1012]

@1stcorinthians1vrs18 " At 1 mph they could have gone 8256 miles, I'm pretty sure that from Israel to America is less than that." Who says that they were going in a straight line? The text says that they would be tossed to and fro. I don't think that a linear model is applicable to this story because they weren't even steering their ships.

[BrotherofSteve]

Hi rapterflyer, thanks for your comment. I will perform the test you requested. I believe we should test a proposed theory to see if it holds water (pun). Meanwhile, please check your reference so I can see what you are reading. ch 6 v 10 is about the lights in the boats. Author of the book of Ether is Ether, translated and condensed by Moroni, and then translated into English by Joseph Smith.

God bless.

[rapterflyer49]

Hi Brother of Steve , The problem with all of this is that Joseph Smith tries to present Ether within Book of Mormon as the true and actual History of the Jaredite people , including how they made the journey from somewhere in the middle east , maybe Saudi peninsula , maybe Israel to the Promised land somewhere in America. Try holding your plastic boat under water a little deeper and for a little longer as per Ether ch 6 v 10 and it will quickly drown everyone on board.

[josiphorus]

wow, nicely done.

[BrotherofSteve]

bjjolley,

continuing: "raisins" will sink after a while. A covered section between two ribs would still have a hole at the bottom through the outer hull. Prayer - in my experience when life gets really really hard, there is great power in prayer. Prayer is "Always" necessary IMHO. Long storms - I think I could devise a valving system. My demo was just to illustrate the principle. I don't know about the sequence issue. I will give it more thought. Again, thanks for your thoughtful insights!

[BrotherofSteve]

bjjolley,

Thank you for your great comments! I can see that you have put much thought into them. I appreciate your time and interest. Some of the issues you mention are things I have thought through, but others are new thoughts for me. I like that. Thanks again. I think I can come up with logical answers for each question, but not within the space allotted here. For example, I don’t think pitch was used for repairs. More likely fibrous hemp-type material pounded into the joints.

[bjjolley]

@BrotherofSteve - "For example, I don’t think pitch was used for repairs. More likely fibrous hemp-type material pounded into the joints."

Hemp would present its own problems, including saturation, breakdown in saltwater, etc, not to mention that the suggestion is pure speculation. You may as well claim they invented rubber for the trip. I don't think your answer addresses the at-sea repair problem.

[bjjolley]

Sequence problem:

The "covered section between two ribs" solution has another problem:

In Ether 2:18, Bro. of Jared completes the barges according to the design. Only after completing all 8 barges does he realize there's a problem with ventilation and light (v19). This itself is baffling - how do you complete one ship, much less 8 without realizing you can't breathe or see?

In v20, the lord tells Bro. of J to make holes. Apparently ventilation was not part of the original design. Really??

[bjjolley]

Another problem:

Ether 6:7 "And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep... they did cry unto the Lord, and he did bring them forth again upon the top of the waters."

If the barges were "light upon the water" and "tight like a dish," did the lord have to do anything to bring them onto the top of the water? Prayer was not necessary at that point. In fact, nothing could have stopped them from floating. No additional action required.

[bjjolley]

Problems:

* Not all "raisins" sink

* A "covered section between two ribs" is not really a "hole."

* Pitch (probably bitumen circa 2000BC) must be periodically be repaired due to hull flexing. Not only can't this be done while at sea for the underside of the barge, no fire was permitted for melting pitch.

* Bitumen fumes are toxic and would build up, along with CO2

* Storms can last for many hours/days which would require the hole to be stopped up, and everyone would suffocate, pump or not.

[1pt21jigawatt]

Pretty cool demo. I just hope that wasn't your wife's favorite tupperware dish.

[BrotherofSteve]

Hi jigawatt,

Mrs. Brother of Steve has an amazing tolerance level for my antics. We have 6 kids and you would think she would be tired of raising 7.

[mormonboy08]

Really enjoyed the video . Wasn't aware of that concept . Had thought the holes in top and bottom were for if they flipped over but this makes more sense of course.

[100bhathaway]

im not sure if it was exactly like that. there is not enough information for us to exactly know what the boat looked like.

[BrotherofSteve]

Hi 100bhathaway

Thanks for your post. I agree with you, I'm not sure either, just illustrating a principle.

[JCPUTT]

How long was the length of a tree? And how did all 8 of those things

stay together for 344 days??

[BrotherofSteve]

Hi JC,

Thanks for your questions. Length of a tree? Well, the General Sherman is one of the biggest (not tallest) trees and is almost 300' high, so I don't think the barges were anywhere near that long, but a 10' barge wouldn't hold much stuff, so I am inclined to think somewhere between.

344 days? That's pretty short compared to the old whaling vessels that were serviceable for 50+ years.

Thanks for your out of the ordinary comment.

Brother of Steve

[JCPUTT]

You're handling us belligerent cusses

pretty well Brother! And I'm glad you

cleared up that age old question of

"What is the length of a tree"? Now I

can sleep!

[pocorro]

What a great video! I always wondered why the two holes. It makes sense. It's a wonderful illustration for primary children too. Thank you so much, I look forward to seeing more of your videos.

[MrDamnedSam]

Excellent vid!

[OldInjury]

I know you don't have the resources for this, but I really like the documentaries where they try to build ancient tech to prove it may have been done in the way the archeologist theorizes they did it (using non-anachronistic resources).

I understand what you are saying about the ribs and pitch, I'd just like to see it really seal and work for an extended period.

[BrotherofSteve]

Thank you. You have very though provoking questions. I agree, old technologies are cool!

I believe that technologies in ancient times were quite sophisticated. Example 1, Tower of Babel at 4300 BCE. Example 2, Ice-man and his copper axe blade at 5000 BCE.

ScienceNews (search their site for shipwrecks) shows new discoveries of frame and plank ship construction 2000 years ago. Jaredites may have used something similar.

Again, THANKS!

Brother of Steve

[mattfrentheway]

@BrotherofSteve The tower of Babel is Fictional at this point. From my understanding, there is no evidence anywhere for that. One cannot be a rational person and base their "scientific evidence or persuasion" on something that itself is suspect.

[BrotherofSteve]

Matt,

I think I might be missing your point. Are you saying that you are having trouble believing the Bible because you dont see much physical evidence of some of the events described there, or are you saying that I shouldnt try to prove spiritual things using scientific evidence or persuasion, or am I missing it completely? Sorry if I misunderstood.

Brother of Steve

[OldInjury]

Your design is nifty, but assumes facts not in the text. For an all wood ship they somehow managed to seal perfectly (a 2000 BC tech that seems somewhat out of reach), your internal column is very problematic. You have to join the column to the hull with zero leaks or the whole thing sinks. I don't know of anyone that could do that with today's tech (all wood remember) for a 344 day journey.

[BrotherofSteve]

Hello OldInjury.

Thank you too for your well pondered thoughts.

Please note below my answer to Matt about my purpose. If the Jaredites used this principle they would not have run a vertical column up the center of the ship like I did for illustration, but more likely used the ribs on the sides of the ship as the column. Just cover a section between two ribs and you get the same effect. Seal it with pitch. The woodworking technology was about 300 years newer than what Noah used.

THANKS Again.

[mattfrentheway]

Can you please clarify something?

The ship was wood. As such it flexes, a lot.

The stopper you used was rubber.

There was not rubber back then.

You inserted the stopper from outside the boat.

They had to put the stopper in from the inside.

Since there was no rubber, and they had to insert some type of stopper in the ceiling. What did they use that would not pop out when the boat flexed?

[BrotherofSteve]

Hello Matt. Thanks for your thoughtful posting. I appreciate your input.

I used plastic and rubber to illustrate a principle of pneumatics and atmospheric pressure that the Jaredites MAY have used. I didnt mean at all that this is what the barges looked like or that this is exactly how they solved the problem of air flow.

The hole did not need to be especially large, so plugging it off from the inside would not be an issue for someone with the skills of woodworking they obviously had.

THANKS!

[JCPUTT]

@mattfrentheway Hey buddy they're

trying. You know how the lord is when

it comes to boat building. Ask that Koala

Bear who had to travel half way round the

world to get on Noah's Rig.

[BrotherofSteve]

JC,

You missed your continental drift class. Peleg's day. Thanks for your comment to Matt.

Brother of Steve

[mattfrentheway]

test

[HER0L0ND0N]

This is great! I have often wondered how that worked. (Of course I don't have a degree in physics either) Thanks!

[ZorroTech88]

What an awesome demonstration, nice video, looking forward to watching more

[yeshua4U]

(Rev 22:18) I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book:

(Rev 22:19) and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

[BrotherofSteve]

Thanks for your post.

We see in Matthew 7:20, how to identify true vs false prophets. Wherefore by their fruits shall ye know them. It is even more plain in Luke 6:43, For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The spirit will testify the truth of The Book of Mormon to you if you:

1) test the fruit (read it)

2) ask God with a sincere heart in the name of Christ if it is true. It is my witness that He will reveal His witness to you.

[yeshua4U]

I can tell right off that I like you and I am not looking to provoke or insult you. but...

What about the Muslims, there are many who do great service to their fellow Muslims and they have the Red Crescent which does great humanitarian work, and they are totally convinced that the words written by mohammed are devine writ. They have good fruit and a sincere and convinced heart. I think that both of those principles plus if it lines up with the revealed Word of God. the Bible, then we can know.

[BrotherofSteve]

Excellent point. Good logic. Mohamed, Buddha, Confucius, Moses, Abraham, all great teachers. Salvation comes however only in and through Jesus Christ because of the Atonement (I know you already know this). The Book of Mormon is another Witness of Jesus Christ. That is its only purpose, to testify of Christ. Read, ponder, and pray about it. Its really that simple, and truly important. Yes, it has to align with the Bible. It is my witness that it does.

Thanks again!

Scott, Brother of Steve.

[yeshua4U]

(Deu 4:2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Jehovah your God which I command you.

(Pro 30:5) Every word of God is tried: He is a shield unto them that take refuge in him.

(Pro 30:6) Add thou not unto his words, Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

[BrotherofSteve]

Good Choice. You use the scriptures to live by and also to illustrate your position. Thank you for your comment. I appreciate you taking the time to look at my efforts. That is kind of you.

Thanks for sharing and your willingness to read my thoughts.

Scott, the Brother of Steve.

[jslmvk]

That is pretty cool! Thanks for sharing.

[rtiffanytaylor]

What a unique way of explaining this scripture

passage of the boats of the Jaradites.

[Mercedes8310]

Very cool demonstration!! :D thanks!!

[DefendingMormonism]

Great video - thanks!

[Christopeirs]

Very good demonstration. I would have to guess that a few paragraphs of scripture don't contain perfectly detailed descriptions of how the Ark or Jared's boat were designed. We don't have blue prints saying how many stalls there were for the animals. We don't have an explaination of how their food didn't go bad after 40 days, because surely they had no fire. I think a lot is left up to imagination. People who want to dispute the details in an undetailed account need to get a life.

[BrotherofSteve]

Thank you!

Yes, on snowy days when I need to get a life and I can't get outside, that's when my wife says I come up with hairball demonstrations like Jared's Barges.

God Bless.

[omiolo]

"I come up with hairball demonstrations like Jared's Barges."

I was expecting the grand finale to be you molting sixteen stones and having them give light =)

[rustysbikerepair]

I love the explanation! You did a great job presenting a plausible way for this to have happened.

Thanks!

[WilliamAKing]

BrotherofSteve,

rbmath, aka Robert Mathews (from Facebook) takes great pleasure in bashing the Book of Mormon, and its believers. It matters very little to him whether theories go proven. He simply likes to cause contention wherever he goes, and thinks he's "helping." Really, all he does is teach against theGod of Peace by the way he behaves. Great video, and good luck with Robert and his kind. Keep it up!

[rbmath]

problems still exists. the barge "buried in the depths of the sea" and lets not forget "mountain waves which broke upon them" these waves alone would have smashed the barge to tiny pits, not to mention the "depth of the sea" pressure would have crushed them like a tin can. Funny thing the Ark that Noah built stayed afloat. see ether 6:6. You do know that the story of Noah has no such wild inventive imaginings as Mr Smith penned.

[BrotherofSteve]

Au Contraire, Mon Amie.

You ever step on a walnut and try to break it?

A question for you, do you think I believe the Noah's Ark story?

[rbmath]

tell me please what would happen if you could drop a "mountain" on a walnut. I highly doubt that a sailor would agree with you. Even today's modern ships would never survive "mountain waves". All that water coming down on a ship would act like concrete and smash any boat. The question is not about Noah's Ark but the fairy tales of Mr Smith

[BrotherofSteve]

Check your physics. Fact: The dome shape is the strongest shape in mathematics. Put two domes together, you have a walnut shape. Tight, like unto a dish. Fairy tales? Hmm.

[rbmath]

I'm pretty sure that even "mountain waves" would crush the walnut shape. the barge being long as tree even with the shape of a dome it snap in half from the mountain waves. also being air tight they would not know if they were breathing CO2 they just might think they were getting tired by the long fairy tale trip.

[rbmath]

Please show me where they use plastic as well. the video was really a pathetic attempt to prove a fairy tale.

[BrotherofSteve]

Oh, now I see. I should have explained that I was answering the question as to why there might be two holes in the boat, not just one. One hole doesn't breath. No cross ventilation. There are any number of ways to make a boat with a hole in the top AND in the bottom. I showed just one.

[rbmath]

you are limited to what the Book of Mormon talks about how the barges were built. The way the book of mormon talks about this issue I highly doubt it happened. You funny thing God never told Noah to put holes in the bottom of the ark. I wonder why. Could it that God told Noah to build a window in the Ark Ge 8:6 After forty days Noah opened the window he had made in the ark

[BrotherofSteve]

dear rbmath, I do not question that you doubt it happened. I respect your opinion. There is only one way to actually know if it happened. Thanks for your comments!

Brother of Steve.

[rbmath]

Please show me where the column is talked about to build the barge mentioned in the Book of Mormon.I read the 1830 edition and did not find such a word.

[BrotherofSteve]

Ah, the early editions of the Book of Mormon did not have Chapter and Verse subdivisions, but the story is still there, early in the Book of Ether. For others, see Ether Chapter 2, verses 16-21.

THANKS rbmath

[rbmath]

Ether Chapter 2 = Ether 5:1-6. it does not have verses 16-21

[rbmath]

I should say 1830 edition. and i looked online to Book of Mormon LDS webpage. and it still says nothing about columns. it says as well in ether 6:6-10. And it came to pass that they were many times buried in the depths of the sea. tell me please if it was air tight how could this happen.? if it was air tight they would run out of fresh air. they would start to breath Carbon Dioxide. How will they know when to open the holes for fresh air?

[BrotherofSteve]

Dear rbmath,

See Ether chapter 2:20, current edition.

Thanks for your comments!

Brother of Steve.

[rbmath]

Ether chapter 2:20. it does not answer my questions. I looked at the 1830 edition and the Book of Mormon online from the LDS web page. Unless LDS leaders are adding words again

[BrotherofSteve]

Hi rbmath,

The next 2 replies go together.

I went over all your questions again and the only one I can find I haven't answered is "where does it say COLUMN." Column is my term, not Moroni's. I showed how the boat might have been built and I used Tupperware and a plastic tube to contain the column. I don't think Jared used either Tupperware or a plastic column. I was showing a scientific principle. All boats use ribs for the framework and planking to cover the ribs.

continues in next comment

[rbmath]

you seem to miss my point. you ADDED something namely the "COLUMN" that is not writen in the Book of Mormon.

[BrotherofSteve]

part 2.

The most likely place for the column would be between two of the ribs, going up the inside of the ship. By simply planking over the two ribs on the inside of the ship, (with a hole at the bottom of the ship connecting that chamber to the sea) you get the same thing in principle that I showed in the video. Does that help?

Brother of Steve

[Rocketermusic]

Good stuff dude, great work

[springmcdonald]

pretty awesome. Great explaination. You should teach at that BYU school