Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
I look at history and see noted believers such as: Johannes Kepler (1571-1630) Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) Rene Descartes (1596-1650) Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) Isaac Newton (1642-1727) Robert Boyle (1791-1867) Michael Faraday (1791-1867) Gregor Mendel (1822-1884) William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907) Max Planck (1858-1947 Albert Einstein (1879-1955) I could go on. There are hundres of thinkers and theists at the same time! Your just mad because even scientists believe.
You speak in endless clichees on the subject of 'personal freedom'. The trouble is that 'society' picks up the tab left by those who have behaved in accordance with your wonderful idea of 'freedom'. Our hospitals and mental homes are full of those individuals, who have acted just the way you envisage life should be. Godless! Satan, the enemy of us all is on your side! Mmmmmmmmm!
I use my freedom in Christ Jesus to get alongside the drug addict, the homeless, the alcoholic, the single mum, the battered wives and husbands, the jobless, the mentally sick, the distressed in war torn zones or those suffering from climate catastrophes, the lonely and the dying and I have discovered that where such conditions exist there are thousands of ''deluded'' Christians. My experience is that the atheist is self-indulgent and deluded and hasn't been taught to love humanity! Mmmmmmm!
@WinstoneP If you look at history, Christians have destroyed so much & have killed so many people. In general, the religion has been a hindrance to the progression of humanity. They oppress knowledge because they see it as a threat, rather than enlightenment. As a whole, Christians seem not to be open-minded: lack of intelligence, in my opinion, threatens humanity more than anything.
I don't believe in organized religion: that does not mean I don't strongly believe in helping others.
freedom ,,,to do wat you want ,self confessed satanist Alister Crowly wrote "do what thou wilst ,will be the whole of the law.Be your own GOD ,exactly what satan told eve in the garden ,twice ,both from the mouth of the devil ,your freedom has been promised ,CHRIST warned us all of this lie
@thatgaybloke no Eve's sin was to disobey the one who put breath in her lungs ,like you ,you believe you can make up your own rules ,were everyone to think as you do ,it would bring not but chaos ,actually it -has- brought not but chaos.Gay pride my foot ,whats next ,paedophile day ,your kinds need to flaunt your belief is not more than an act of rebellion against the one who created you and you will suffer for your transgression.but CHRIST keeps the door open ,repent an sin no more
@roxfoot You'll find much of the chaos to which you refer comes not from valuing human life and dignity, as I do, but from worship of evil fictions such as yours.
@thatgaybloke no evil comes from a source that has made many red herring religions to draw people away from the truth that is CHRIST ,the same source that told eve she could be like GOD ,told you you could be your own god ,either way its the same thing ,you need to understand that the father of all lies has many masks ,each one can be recognised by the false teaching of believe in you not GOD ,CHRIST died for you in the most horrible way and you repay him with rebellion
@thatgaybloke no thanks ,I've just eaten ,seriously tho ,I have no interest in wrestling for intellectual superiority ,or slandering people , am only a sinner who learned the truth and wish's to share it with you ,as is my duty ,,an alchoholic cannot get better untill he realise's he has a problem ,our shameful nature is the same ,CHRIST payed the cost ,if only that you believe and repent ,with him ,we are whole ,without him we are dead.1 Corinthians 3:17
@thatgaybloke ,,that title you use , interesting is it not that you feel the need to define yourself by that in which you indulge ,its the same as that whole gay pride thing ,who are you trying to convince ,others or yourself ,because deep down you know its not right ,
To say that God does not exist, you would literally have to know everything in order to make a claim like that. Only someone who is capable of being in all places at one time, with a perfect knowledge of all that is in the universe, can make such a statement based on the facts. To sustain the belief that there is no God, one has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, "I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge"
Incorrect. That is the among the more hackneyed fallacies levelled at atheists. To say that God does not exist I only need to arrive that that conclusion based on the available evidence. I can be reasonably sure that there isn't an invisible pink Unicorn living in my garden because a) the idea of an invisible pink unicorn is fanciful; b) there's no evidence indicating its presence. The same is true of god.
You have to say and prove that God exists. You have to KNOW that God exists to make such a stupendous claim. The burden of proof lies on you. And for the last 3000 years, no religion anywhere has come up with any proof for god.
Verily,who disbelieve,it's the same to them whether you (O Muhammad)Warn them or do not warn them,they will not believe.
Allah has set a seal on they hearts and on their hearing(i.e they are closed from accepting Allah's Guidance) and their eyes there is covering. Theirs will be a Great torment
you explain it so perfectly,and i take my hat off to you. if only i could memorise this speech if i ever come across a crazy christian. but we dont get that many in australia, i think they understand that we dont care, even the people who are religious dont really care about the fanatics, its more a social thing here. but i am an athiest and i am happy, i think if i was a homosexual male i would be alot more annoyed at religion. i would not want anyone telling me who i could and could not marry.
To all religious people.....(sorry to those who aren't brainwashed and instead enjoy logic, reason and common sense)....God contacted me last night and ordered me to start a new religion. However, members must pay a subscription fee to me at a mere 50% of your income. Message me if you want to join. Oh, and by the way, God said that if you don't join then you go to SUPERHELL.
the argument that atheism offers freedom will only work on religious people that feel oppresssed
the others dont listen when we say that religion causes problems. they think that the benefit that their faith brings them somehow justifies the ills their faith causes others.
they challenge atheism to offer an alternative to these benefits before they will even consider the possibility that there are ill effects.
remember, even an addict needs to feel like hes not losing out by quitting.
I have to agree with you and I think you would agree with religious people ARE oppressed. It's the oppression of the mind. It's the oppression of free thought. It's the oppression reason. It's hard to see that when, as thatgaybloke pointed out, religion is like a drug addiction (and it's a fair comparison).
Degrading? I really think you need to take a look at the degrading things that happen in the bible and the degrading things done in the name of god. The comparison is spot on.
well it is a comparison not a parrallel so its your decision whether you find it degrading or not.
but if you have ever read any atheist literature you'll find that when we talk about the ill effects that harm others, yes its from the fanatics. BUT its the benign ill effects that come from religious moderates that create an ideological shield that protects fanatics.
id like moderates more if they actually went after fanatics, but they leave that job to atheists and look what happens.
I didn't realize there could only be one purpose. In all seriousness, though, I can be whoever I want. I am a Christian, and I have freedom. I am my own character, with my own characteristics. Worry about the next life? I shouldn't have to, if I'm saved.
Most of the video after those points I just addressed was just your opinion, but then you go to say that Christian beliefs are intoxicating? How so? OUR beliefs made life for YOU and YOUR kind much better.
"OUR beliefs made life for YOU and YOUR kind much better." Are you referring to the christian ideals that many probably use to denigrate and condemn thatgaybloke's perfectly acceptable lifestyle? yea I'm sure he loves that...
Are you sure he couldn't have benefited just as well from the beliefs and stances of a secularized government?
Just about anything pertaining to religion is "just your opinion" and in fact, the video he responded to was asking for an opinion.
"I didn't realize there could only be one purpose." Your religion teaches that existence has only one purpose - to worship God. In this life and the next one into eternity. Atheism allows you to find your OWN purpose and meaning and doesn't restrict you to just the one. Given your faith's propensity for bizarre reinterpretation of scripture, it's not unexpected you would reinterpret what I'd said to fit your vision.
"OUR beliefs made life for YOU and YOUR kind much better." - a very bold statement indeed.
I'd be really interested in any concrete examples of where Christianity has made my life better. I can't think of ANY and can only assume this is another baseless claim, the like of which Christians produce with such ease.
I find it interesting that it is Christians who always bring up marrying dogs, their mothers as counter-arguments. Just like the person who claimed they would kill their neighbour if they didn't think God would send them to hell. If they truly feel those urges, I agree they ought to stay in their religions, they lack the maturity to think for themselves.
If your dog was of sufficient intellect to be able to consent to marriage, then why not? If we met a sentient alien race would we fall in love? Our society has a taboo about marrying close family members, but that hasn't always been the case. The Eqyptians, for example, didn't have a problem with their royalty marrying inside the same family.
You're really missing the point of freedom. It isn't the freedom to do ANYTHING. It's the freedom to realise for yourself what is right and wrong without just being told. I feel there is a greater nobility in a good deed done for its own sake than one done for reward. Similarly I feel better about myself knowing that I don't do evil things to other because *I* know they are wrong, rather than purely out of fear of punishment. To me, that is nobler and more civilised. You may feel differently.
I can assure you that I have NEVER been confused in my entire life about my sexual orientation. I am very fortunate to have been born to fantastic parents who have never wanted anything other than for me to be happy. I haven't had to hide who I am, or pretend to be someone else or worry about what people think. There may be some "confused" gay people, but I can assure you that I am not one of them.
Wouldn't you agree that this concept you have of 'freedom' is based on societal expectations and standards? I don't think when you're referring to freedom that you're speaking of some objective fact that has been in existence from the dawn of human existence. So how is this belief of 'freedom' that you have any more justified than my belief about what 'freedom' is?
No, I would not agree that my concept of freedom is based on societal expectations. It's based on my expectations. I think that freedom IS an objective concept that has been around since the dawn of human existence. The opposite of freedom is slavery. Whilst there are some who are happy to be enslaved, I'm not. That should be my choice. Your question was "what does atheism offer" and I say it offers freedom. What does Christianity offer? Subservience to God. That sounds like slavery to me.
Because my expectation is based on the objective concept of freedom. Freedom is the right and ability to think and behave as you wish without the forceful control of others. I would say that is a definition that crosses historical and cultural boundaries - or would you disagree?
TogetherForPeace, your little discourse here is really pathetic. You asked a question and you got an answer. In response, you try to discredit the answer by saying that it's not "objective" enough for you. This plays on that fact that everything is subjective, so it's impossible for gaybloke to offer you some absolute justification for what he's claiming. You offer no basis for which to determine a sufficient response, so you can perpetually maintain that it is insufficient for you. Go die.
howdoi-- "not 'objective' enough for you" lol yeah it is impossible for him to provide some absolute justification that's the point. funny how instead of correcting him you go after me for calling it out. oh well c'est la vie peace...Go live! :)
"funny how instead of correcting him you go after me for calling it out"
I wasn't "correcting him". You asked a question and he gave you an answer. I was pointing out your intellectual dishonestly; word games and strawmen don't constitute a valid discussion. Unfortunately, understanding what I said is obviously beyond you since you're a compete and utter moron.
lol thnx for clarifying. i removed the thumbs rating on this recent vid cuz i realized ppl were using it as a means of silencing opposition instead of engaging at a meaningful level
I think the concept of freedom is widely enough understood to be considered objective. This isn't going to turn into a "all human experience is subjective" rebuttal is it?
Technically it should because you haven't offered any objective source for your claims.
All you've basically said is "well, this is how I feel".
Well, good for you. Some people feel like you should die or be a slave. On what rational grounds do you object to them other than pointing to the purpose and morality that you find convenient?
"Some people feel like you should die or be a slave. On what rational grounds do you object to them other than pointing to the purpose and morality that you find convenient?"
If you cannot see how ridiculous this statement is, then there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.
No, you need to rationally be able to argue your point.
Stop appealing to emotional rhetoric and your accent to convince others. I thought you were all about rationality, yet you sit there and tell me that I'm just "supposed" to know after admitting that morality and purpose come from within.
I don't see anything rational about your "rationality".
There is plenty of scientific evidence to demonstrate that "morality" is something that is hard wired into human beings. It does not need to be dictated externally - the fact that human beings can feel empathy is enough to prevent us from behaving in an antisocial manner.
That is general rule. It doesn't apply to 100% of people because some mentally ill people - like psychopaths - are unable to feel empathy. That often gives rise to antisocial behaviour.
There are evolutionary advantages to empathy in that it provides opportunities to bond and lubricates social interaction. Empathy leads directly to "treat others how you want to be treated".
That you cannot see why enslavement or murder of any human being is morally wrong in its own right, rather than having to be told by some god or set of books, is very disturbing.
Hmm, i think luck is just a value we give to an event, like 'fortunate'.
The same event can be experienced as 'unlucky' by someone else.
To believe in luck is to believe in (a personal) perception of random events, luck does not exist outside the brain of humans (here on earth anyway :)
A famous pianist was once complimented on his talent. He said "Thank you. The strangest thing is that the more I practice, the more talented I get."
I think the same applies to luck. You see people who are lucky and the more often the pick themselves up and dust myself down after a set back, the luckier they get.
Smile Atheist - God loves you! He doesn't give up on his creatures that easily!
WinstoneP 1 week ago
Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
WinstoneP 1 week ago
WinstoneP 1 week ago
You speak in endless clichees on the subject of 'personal freedom'. The trouble is that 'society' picks up the tab left by those who have behaved in accordance with your wonderful idea of 'freedom'. Our hospitals and mental homes are full of those individuals, who have acted just the way you envisage life should be. Godless! Satan, the enemy of us all is on your side! Mmmmmmmmm!
WinstoneP 9 months ago
I use my freedom in Christ Jesus to get alongside the drug addict, the homeless, the alcoholic, the single mum, the battered wives and husbands, the jobless, the mentally sick, the distressed in war torn zones or those suffering from climate catastrophes, the lonely and the dying and I have discovered that where such conditions exist there are thousands of ''deluded'' Christians. My experience is that the atheist is self-indulgent and deluded and hasn't been taught to love humanity! Mmmmmmm!
WinstoneP 9 months ago
@WinstoneP If you look at history, Christians have destroyed so much & have killed so many people. In general, the religion has been a hindrance to the progression of humanity. They oppress knowledge because they see it as a threat, rather than enlightenment. As a whole, Christians seem not to be open-minded: lack of intelligence, in my opinion, threatens humanity more than anything.
I don't believe in organized religion: that does not mean I don't strongly believe in helping others.
AlexaInternational 1 week ago
freedom ,,,to do wat you want ,self confessed satanist Alister Crowly wrote "do what thou wilst ,will be the whole of the law.Be your own GOD ,exactly what satan told eve in the garden ,twice ,both from the mouth of the devil ,your freedom has been promised ,CHRIST warned us all of this lie
roxfoot 9 months ago
@roxfoot Eve's sin was to want to know - and your god would deny humanity that. You really think that if your god exists it's on the side of right?
thatgaybloke 9 months ago
@thatgaybloke no Eve's sin was to disobey the one who put breath in her lungs ,like you ,you believe you can make up your own rules ,were everyone to think as you do ,it would bring not but chaos ,actually it -has- brought not but chaos.Gay pride my foot ,whats next ,paedophile day ,your kinds need to flaunt your belief is not more than an act of rebellion against the one who created you and you will suffer for your transgression.but CHRIST keeps the door open ,repent an sin no more
roxfoot 9 months ago
@roxfoot You'll find much of the chaos to which you refer comes not from valuing human life and dignity, as I do, but from worship of evil fictions such as yours.
thatgaybloke 9 months ago
@thatgaybloke no evil comes from a source that has made many red herring religions to draw people away from the truth that is CHRIST ,the same source that told eve she could be like GOD ,told you you could be your own god ,either way its the same thing ,you need to understand that the father of all lies has many masks ,each one can be recognised by the false teaching of believe in you not GOD ,CHRIST died for you in the most horrible way and you repay him with rebellion
roxfoot 9 months ago
@roxfoot poe?
thatgaybloke 9 months ago
@thatgaybloke no thanks ,I've just eaten ,seriously tho ,I have no interest in wrestling for intellectual superiority ,or slandering people , am only a sinner who learned the truth and wish's to share it with you ,as is my duty ,,an alchoholic cannot get better untill he realise's he has a problem ,our shameful nature is the same ,CHRIST payed the cost ,if only that you believe and repent ,with him ,we are whole ,without him we are dead.1 Corinthians 3:17
roxfoot 9 months ago
@roxfoot Thank you for sharing - you bring encouragement and warmth. God Bless you!
WinstoneP 9 months ago
@thatgaybloke ,,that title you use , interesting is it not that you feel the need to define yourself by that in which you indulge ,its the same as that whole gay pride thing ,who are you trying to convince ,others or yourself ,because deep down you know its not right ,
roxfoot 9 months ago
To say that God does not exist, you would literally have to know everything in order to make a claim like that. Only someone who is capable of being in all places at one time, with a perfect knowledge of all that is in the universe, can make such a statement based on the facts. To sustain the belief that there is no God, one has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, "I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge"
Camaron47 2 years ago
Incorrect. That is the among the more hackneyed fallacies levelled at atheists. To say that God does not exist I only need to arrive that that conclusion based on the available evidence. I can be reasonably sure that there isn't an invisible pink Unicorn living in my garden because a) the idea of an invisible pink unicorn is fanciful; b) there's no evidence indicating its presence. The same is true of god.
thatgaybloke 2 years ago
You have to say and prove that God exists. You have to KNOW that God exists to make such a stupendous claim. The burden of proof lies on you. And for the last 3000 years, no religion anywhere has come up with any proof for god.
friendlystonepeople 2 years ago
there is no god
dman16977 3 years ago
Well spoken, and with clarity and conviction.
JayKeaton 3 years ago
God SAID
Verily,who disbelieve,it's the same to them whether you (O Muhammad)Warn them or do not warn them,they will not believe.
Allah has set a seal on they hearts and on their hearing(i.e they are closed from accepting Allah's Guidance) and their eyes there is covering. Theirs will be a Great torment
agathasharon 3 years ago
So, basically, a threat of torment if I don't toe the line? Anyone who has to make threats demonstrates the weakness of their case.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago 3
very well put man. great response to the religiously intoxicated
powderkid 3 years ago
when one thinks there is only one truth they have become blinded
saintmichael88 3 years ago
you explain it so perfectly,and i take my hat off to you. if only i could memorise this speech if i ever come across a crazy christian. but we dont get that many in australia, i think they understand that we dont care, even the people who are religious dont really care about the fanatics, its more a social thing here. but i am an athiest and i am happy, i think if i was a homosexual male i would be alot more annoyed at religion. i would not want anyone telling me who i could and could not marry.
unchosenwitch 3 years ago
heroin and meth are allot funner then god and religion..
napalmtube 3 years ago 4
I haven't tried any of them, so I'll have to take your word for it. (I don't want to try them either - they scare me.)
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
To all religious people.....(sorry to those who aren't brainwashed and instead enjoy logic, reason and common sense)....God contacted me last night and ordered me to start a new religion. However, members must pay a subscription fee to me at a mere 50% of your income. Message me if you want to join. Oh, and by the way, God said that if you don't join then you go to SUPERHELL.
Cheers
zooplex 3 years ago
the argument that atheism offers freedom will only work on religious people that feel oppresssed
the others dont listen when we say that religion causes problems. they think that the benefit that their faith brings them somehow justifies the ills their faith causes others.
they challenge atheism to offer an alternative to these benefits before they will even consider the possibility that there are ill effects.
remember, even an addict needs to feel like hes not losing out by quitting.
Brettah31 3 years ago
I have to agree with you and I think you would agree with religious people ARE oppressed. It's the oppression of the mind. It's the oppression of free thought. It's the oppression reason. It's hard to see that when, as thatgaybloke pointed out, religion is like a drug addiction (and it's a fair comparison).
SuperFlyNB 3 years ago
I think it's a pretty bigoted comparison, if you ask me.
Drug addicts are the same as religious people? That's pretty degrading.
HumbleOrthodox 3 years ago
Degrading? I really think you need to take a look at the degrading things that happen in the bible and the degrading things done in the name of god. The comparison is spot on.
SuperFlyNB 3 years ago
So you're affirming it was a degrading comment then?
Thanks.
HumbleOrthodox 3 years ago
Or maybe we just believe that religion JUST offers ill effects like all the bigots out there who do?
We don't believe that the majority of religious persons are hurting other people, because they aren't?
We don't take a small group of fanatics and then apply it to the majority?
I dunno.
HumbleOrthodox 3 years ago
well it is a comparison not a parrallel so its your decision whether you find it degrading or not.
but if you have ever read any atheist literature you'll find that when we talk about the ill effects that harm others, yes its from the fanatics. BUT its the benign ill effects that come from religious moderates that create an ideological shield that protects fanatics.
id like moderates more if they actually went after fanatics, but they leave that job to atheists and look what happens.
Brettah31 3 years ago
Freedom to my own purpose in life?
I didn't realize there could only be one purpose. In all seriousness, though, I can be whoever I want. I am a Christian, and I have freedom. I am my own character, with my own characteristics. Worry about the next life? I shouldn't have to, if I'm saved.
Most of the video after those points I just addressed was just your opinion, but then you go to say that Christian beliefs are intoxicating? How so? OUR beliefs made life for YOU and YOUR kind much better.
LinkGrayX2 3 years ago
"OUR beliefs made life for YOU and YOUR kind much better." Are you referring to the christian ideals that many probably use to denigrate and condemn thatgaybloke's perfectly acceptable lifestyle? yea I'm sure he loves that...
Are you sure he couldn't have benefited just as well from the beliefs and stances of a secularized government?
Just about anything pertaining to religion is "just your opinion" and in fact, the video he responded to was asking for an opinion.
Get over yourself, please...
J0hnnyH3mps33d 3 years ago
"I didn't realize there could only be one purpose." Your religion teaches that existence has only one purpose - to worship God. In this life and the next one into eternity. Atheism allows you to find your OWN purpose and meaning and doesn't restrict you to just the one. Given your faith's propensity for bizarre reinterpretation of scripture, it's not unexpected you would reinterpret what I'd said to fit your vision.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
"OUR beliefs made life for YOU and YOUR kind much better." - a very bold statement indeed.
I'd be really interested in any concrete examples of where Christianity has made my life better. I can't think of ANY and can only assume this is another baseless claim, the like of which Christians produce with such ease.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
Wow, you're right up there with Dawkins and the others! :)
earthling770707 3 years ago
Great points. 5*s
bitbutter 3 years ago
Excellent video.
DaveGrossmanSoloBass 3 years ago
And I enjoy my freedom. Well said.
GoMetricToday 3 years ago
Excellent.
ProfMTH 3 years ago
well said!
Cainer666 3 years ago
Label yourself gay, it doesn't matter. Gay is just another word for a person that labels themselves in terms of sexual confusion.
arccotangent 3 years ago
Right on. FREEDOM! Freedom to marry your dog. Freedom to love your sister. Freedom to marry your mother. FRRrreeeeedddoommmmmmmmmmmm!!!!
arccotangent 3 years ago
I find it interesting that it is Christians who always bring up marrying dogs, their mothers as counter-arguments. Just like the person who claimed they would kill their neighbour if they didn't think God would send them to hell. If they truly feel those urges, I agree they ought to stay in their religions, they lack the maturity to think for themselves.
Cafeeine 3 years ago
I bet if you gave mankind the freedom to marry their dog, a handful of 6.5 billion would. see my point? :)
Norphax 3 years ago
Yes, because a dog is a consenting adult individual, now I understand.
dtmeli 3 years ago
If your dog was of sufficient intellect to be able to consent to marriage, then why not? If we met a sentient alien race would we fall in love? Our society has a taboo about marrying close family members, but that hasn't always been the case. The Eqyptians, for example, didn't have a problem with their royalty marrying inside the same family.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
You're really missing the point of freedom. It isn't the freedom to do ANYTHING. It's the freedom to realise for yourself what is right and wrong without just being told. I feel there is a greater nobility in a good deed done for its own sake than one done for reward. Similarly I feel better about myself knowing that I don't do evil things to other because *I* know they are wrong, rather than purely out of fear of punishment. To me, that is nobler and more civilised. You may feel differently.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
I can assure you that I have NEVER been confused in my entire life about my sexual orientation. I am very fortunate to have been born to fantastic parents who have never wanted anything other than for me to be happy. I haven't had to hide who I am, or pretend to be someone else or worry about what people think. There may be some "confused" gay people, but I can assure you that I am not one of them.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
Suberb, man.
hairyreasoner 3 years ago
Wouldn't you agree that this concept you have of 'freedom' is based on societal expectations and standards? I don't think when you're referring to freedom that you're speaking of some objective fact that has been in existence from the dawn of human existence. So how is this belief of 'freedom' that you have any more justified than my belief about what 'freedom' is?
TogetherForPeace 3 years ago
No, I would not agree that my concept of freedom is based on societal expectations. It's based on my expectations. I think that freedom IS an objective concept that has been around since the dawn of human existence. The opposite of freedom is slavery. Whilst there are some who are happy to be enslaved, I'm not. That should be my choice. Your question was "what does atheism offer" and I say it offers freedom. What does Christianity offer? Subservience to God. That sounds like slavery to me.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
If something is based on 'your' expectations exactly how is it that freedom is an 'objective concept' that's been around for all humanity?
TogetherForPeace 3 years ago
Because my expectation is based on the objective concept of freedom. Freedom is the right and ability to think and behave as you wish without the forceful control of others. I would say that is a definition that crosses historical and cultural boundaries - or would you disagree?
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
How is it that you know your personal expectations are based upon the 'objective concept' of freedom?
TogetherForPeace 3 years ago
TogetherForPeace, your little discourse here is really pathetic. You asked a question and you got an answer. In response, you try to discredit the answer by saying that it's not "objective" enough for you. This plays on that fact that everything is subjective, so it's impossible for gaybloke to offer you some absolute justification for what he's claiming. You offer no basis for which to determine a sufficient response, so you can perpetually maintain that it is insufficient for you. Go die.
howdoiusername 3 years ago
howdoi-- "not 'objective' enough for you" lol yeah it is impossible for him to provide some absolute justification that's the point. funny how instead of correcting him you go after me for calling it out. oh well c'est la vie peace...Go live! :)
TogetherForPeace 3 years ago
"funny how instead of correcting him you go after me for calling it out"
I wasn't "correcting him". You asked a question and he gave you an answer. I was pointing out your intellectual dishonestly; word games and strawmen don't constitute a valid discussion. Unfortunately, understanding what I said is obviously beyond you since you're a compete and utter moron.
howdoiusername 3 years ago
I accidentally clicked a thumbs up for your comment. I meant to click thumbs down.
SCRYER1973 3 years ago
lol thnx for clarifying. i removed the thumbs rating on this recent vid cuz i realized ppl were using it as a means of silencing opposition instead of engaging at a meaningful level
TogetherForPeace 3 years ago
I wasn't trying to silence you. I am just opposed to your position.
SCRYER1973 3 years ago
I think the concept of freedom is widely enough understood to be considered objective. This isn't going to turn into a "all human experience is subjective" rebuttal is it?
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
Technically it should because you haven't offered any objective source for your claims.
All you've basically said is "well, this is how I feel".
Well, good for you. Some people feel like you should die or be a slave. On what rational grounds do you object to them other than pointing to the purpose and morality that you find convenient?
HumbleOrthodox 3 years ago
"Some people feel like you should die or be a slave. On what rational grounds do you object to them other than pointing to the purpose and morality that you find convenient?"
If you cannot see how ridiculous this statement is, then there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
No, you need to rationally be able to argue your point.
Stop appealing to emotional rhetoric and your accent to convince others. I thought you were all about rationality, yet you sit there and tell me that I'm just "supposed" to know after admitting that morality and purpose come from within.
I don't see anything rational about your "rationality".
HumbleOrthodox 3 years ago
There is plenty of scientific evidence to demonstrate that "morality" is something that is hard wired into human beings. It does not need to be dictated externally - the fact that human beings can feel empathy is enough to prevent us from behaving in an antisocial manner.
That is general rule. It doesn't apply to 100% of people because some mentally ill people - like psychopaths - are unable to feel empathy. That often gives rise to antisocial behaviour.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
There are evolutionary advantages to empathy in that it provides opportunities to bond and lubricates social interaction. Empathy leads directly to "treat others how you want to be treated".
That you cannot see why enslavement or murder of any human being is morally wrong in its own right, rather than having to be told by some god or set of books, is very disturbing.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
This is very fun in text comments, but I'll be making a video response instead.
Hope you like it :)
HumbleOrthodox 3 years ago
Cool - that's what YouTube is all about.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
Five stars, favorited, onto my God list and still not good enough to match this brilliant video!
farvision 3 years ago 2
Brilliant analogy. They are indeed hooked on "shooting up with God."
FormerFollier 3 years ago 2
A very very good video. Congrats.
dakshinamurti 3 years ago 2
A surprisingly cordial, trenchant, and enlightened reposte to the idiocy and credulity of religion. Bravo!
angieap 3 years ago 2
"Belief in Luck is superstition".
Hmm, i think luck is just a value we give to an event, like 'fortunate'.
The same event can be experienced as 'unlucky' by someone else.
To believe in luck is to believe in (a personal) perception of random events, luck does not exist outside the brain of humans (here on earth anyway :)
Much like 'god', i would suggest ;)
mindwis3 3 years ago
I think "luck" is like "talent".
A famous pianist was once complimented on his talent. He said "Thank you. The strangest thing is that the more I practice, the more talented I get."
I think the same applies to luck. You see people who are lucky and the more often the pick themselves up and dust myself down after a set back, the luckier they get.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
..I like to be free of superstition.
All the Great religons have a certain amount of belief in luck and gather the favor of God.
Belief in Luck is superstition.
Belief in gathering the favor of God is Superstitious.
DorothyDandrich 3 years ago 2