Us Christian kids in the 80s had little idea of how great we had with the likes of Steve Taylor. "I hung from gravity boots for my Napoleon complex"!!? Incredible.
Thanks for uploading this video! If you want you can go to facebook, type in Alan Chrysler in independence,ks and look for a guy with 2 kids holding a cross next to a motor cycle. and add me and Ill accept. I have lots of cool things on my wall. Thanks!
i got and understood every word he ever wrote - a master of satire. Since satire is for people with above average intelligence satirists are not always understood properly. irony,hyperbole,oxymorons,facetiousness and more create anger in some who take the words literally or do not read the entire work
@ExileTherin It's basically a song about an ice cream man who blew up an abortion clinic, not for any "pro-life" reason but simply because the abortionists killing all the children was going to put him out of a job.
The real meaning behind it is in opposition of bombing clinics or killing doctors, hence the line in the bridge "the end don't justify the means anytime." The preacher was condemning the ice cream man's actions.
@ChristianMusician85 okay that makes sense :) Thanks for responding! I agree with the bridge.
I have listened to so much forign (asian) music that my brain doesn't pick up lyrics English the way it used to... hence why I was confused... I just listened/watched it again, and I still only picked up a few words now and then... If I listen enough times I will be able to hear the lyrics I'm sure :) Thanks again!
hahahaha I had a friend tell me that this song was promoting murder of abortionists. I just broke out laughing and then when I picked myself up off the floor I tried to explain about "Christian Satire" lol
Dave Thrush will be doing a LIVE interview on Ethan Tudor W's "The Neverhood Show" at Blog Talk Radio, Monday Oct. 25th at 10am (PST). Dave will be on to talk about his days touring with Christian Superstar "Steve Taylor", and will be taking LIVE call in questions from the fans. It's at The Neverhood Show, at Blog Talk Radio Dot Com, The LIVE call in number is 1-347-324-3691. Dave Thrush was the Sax Player with "Steve Taylor & Some Band" for MOST of Steve's touring career.
I guess you can crash commercial aircraft into buildings with people inside them, and then get to set up a shrine with people who support the ideology behind the disaster near the crash site (with the blessing of the goverment no less). But, what would happen if a christian blew up an abortion clinic (with no one inside of course) and built a church in it's place instead? Hmmmm, no wonder Steve wrote Escher's World!
now I don't care if it's a baby or a tissue blob, but if we run out of youngsters, I'll be out of a job! so i did my duty cleaning up the neighborhood... i blew up the clinic - real good!
I stood up on my van and said, "excuse me sir...
Ain't nothing wrong with this country a few plastic explosives wont cure!"
Good video and message. I believe abortion is wrong but I will never understand how a person could ever consider themselves pro life while they're taking peoples lives. Talk about hypocrisy.
@ChuckMock I think the song is about people who are against abortion (I am, by the way) who take matters into their own hands and decide to blow up abortion clinics or kill doctors. Hope that helps!
@cavgurl07 Its' about the hypocracy of people who attack the abortion clinics and doctors in the name of being "good christians". Google Steve Taylor and listen to what he says in his own words.
Hey now all of us are going to be funding all these places with this new "Health Care Plan." So now we are going to have 320 million people who are killers....thanks Obama and fellow Democrates
This is one of my favorite Steve Taylor songs, and sadly one of the most misunderstood ones. The controversy stemmed from critics who did not listen to ALL the lyrics. Taylor made a comment in the song about "the end don't justify the means anytime". This exposed the hypocrisy in blowing up abortion clinics as a form of protest against abortion. But, given the paranoia in both CCM and MTV, Taylor's best song would unintentionally torpedo his music career, as it was banned from airplay.
@jsc1215 "The controversy stemmed from critics who did not listen to ALL the lyrics." When does the drive-by liberal media ever read everything, or take quotes in context? The more open-minded, the more progressive, the more univ-educated, the less-able to understand satire.
@axemurderer4hire "When does the drive-by liberal media ever read everything, or take quotes in context?"
Sadly, the problem back when the song/album was released wasn't primarily liberals - it was Christian radio that could not deal with pointed satire. Sigh.
Doesn't change how good the song was/is, though...
@akapastorguy You correct! i remember fondly when this song came out, it had the liberals, anti-life folks up in arms! Sadly, the Christian community was afraid to speak out and speak up in support of this video for fear of seeming "evil". It was a great time in Christian music, many great things happened back then
I saw Steve Taylor at Gordon College MANY years ago. When he played this song, he got his Ice Cream Man outfit on & had a cooler full of water baloons. During the song he was throwing them out into the audience. Well, one of them didn't get thrown that hard, and the fan caught it and threw it back. The electric guitarist's face lit up in panic (water/electricity), so Steve took the next balloon and threw it at the same guy as hard as he could. It was Awesome!
@Galilee1964 I was at that same concert! I will never forget ST in that suit chucking water balloons...didn't realize until now that there was a video with concert clips showing it.
@goopfish42 I remember after that happened, (and it was like the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd song) I laughed and said "Well, I've gotten my $10 worth (that's all the tickets cost back then) I can go home now!" Of course I stayed, but what a riot! And what a show.
@Galilee1964 *sigh* ah, yes, the days of $10 concert tickets. I also saw him at an outdoor festival of some kind, also in that area. Maybe even on the Gordon campus? At that one the most memorable song was Lifeboat.
The world of Christian music, nay, the world of MUSIC is a poorer place without Steve Taylor and stuff like this. Never, ever bettered - he'd have so much ammunition for new songs with the state of things today across the globe. Sorely missed and I and countless thousands live in hope he'll be back...
actualy Steve's been writing most of the songs for the band The Newsboys and even sang with them in a song Yo Ho Hero for the Pirates Who Don't Do Anything movie!
Check out that ice cream truck! Do they still use that kind any more? I mean, the steering wheel is on the RIGHT hand side. What is that...a converted U.S. Mail truck? That vehicle really dates this video.
Um, yeah. I was a Christian once. Was raised that way, and was one of the most devoted to the cause and what-have-you...
Long story short, now I'm an atheist, but Taylor is a real believer, and if you take this song too seriously, Jesus is literally rolling over in his grave. Few truer believers have I seen than Mr. Taylor. I used to listen to one of his albums constantly. Don't be a clone. Understand that your faith has to be personal to be real.
JESUS never killed anybody. HE showed grace to sinners but, the pious religious people of HIS day HE was tough on. " The ends don't justify the means anytime." I'm not saying abortion should not be stopped. We should work with in the governmental system and more importantly pray.
Sorry mate... even Jesus disagreed with you... he destroyed the tables of the money changers in the temples... Abortion murder houses should be destroyed, the murderers charged and life sentences imposed... the so-called mothers should be accessories to murder.. full stop. Abortion i simply the worst sort of murder ever invented.
Eh? I don't know if you're for real, but equivocating wooden tables and people's lives is a serious mistake and is seriously missing the entire point of the song...
abortion is murder... blow em up if you want... but do not ever hurt people.. they are God's creation... just like unborn babies that are cut to pieces in the name of contraception
Part of the point of the song is that two wrongs don't make a right. I agree with you that abortion is wrong, but that does not justify further sin in rebellion against government and property.
I Predict... was released in 1987. I bought it. At around that time. I am now grown up. I know that. I am saying the song would now not be regarded as very PC , especially by the right wingers. The song has a double meaning and a comedy...Doh! That's what I said!!!! :D The song is not actually funny - it's terrifying. Hitler regarded Jews as damaging for the German economy amongst other things. Look what he tried to do. There is a parallel, which ST is pointing out.
You need to read the notes in ST's "Now the truth can be told" Double CD. Phrases like, "Reasonabe people on both sides of the abortion debate could argue that this was not a song that needed to be written..." and, "I called her at the show's request to explain that it was satire" give the game away somewhat. Bbeninnh's comment is misguided. It's not about "putting it on the line", it's about a twat. If the bloke blew up a pickled onion factory not a clinic people would get the message!
Apology accepted qix77. Btw, a twat ie UK slang for idiot. And the idiot in the song is "what's wrong with this country", and he goes up in his own smoke. Like I said, people get bogged down with the abortion issue. If I was arguing about that I'd be on writing about ST's song Baby Doe.
I live in the UK that's England not the mid west. ST is homophobic and bigotted, I'll grant you. But in this song he was targetting people who would use violence against others in the name of having a good cause. It is sarcasm.
You tell me where I'm mixed up? Are you telling me that writing a song about someone who wants to blow up an abortion clinic because of lost revenue in ice cream sales is not sarcasm? In today's post 9/11 climate anyone who took this literally as condemnation of abortion would be seen as pro terrorism. As I said, whilst ST is definitely not pro abortion, he's sending up those anti campaigners who resorted to violence. The ice cream man goes up in flames at the end. Watch.
Whilst not agreeing with abortion himself, ST does portray the subject of the song as a total bigot, which he is, that is a hefty dose of sarcasm at the end, and in the "Ain't nothing wrong" line the bloke himself goes up! The problem with "saying it like it is" is that those who appreciate there's some debate in the matter get branded "pro-death". Jesus (God, Krishna etc) is for losers - all of us, including those torturing themselves with guilt over this matter.
While I can't say I would blow up a clinic, I can understand the feeling and thank god for heroes who put it on the line and act out their faith. I'll send money and prayers to them.
Steve kicks azz, as usual, and it's the pro-death, two-faced baby butchers that squirm when he gets out his razor-sharp wit and musical talent and slices and dices their greed and anti-humanity. Rock on, man, and keep telling it like it really is!
"Pro-life is... It can be used to indicate opposition to practices such as euthanasia, human cloning, research involving human embryonic stem cells, and the death penalty, but most commonly (especially in the media and popular discourse) to abortion, and support for fetal rights. The term describes the political and ethical view which maintains that fetuses and embryos are human beings, and therefore have a right to live."
And thus we see the downside of Wikipedia. It by no means is the be-all and end-all of truth, and it makes no claim to be. Wikipedia is a fantastic tool to *begin* research, and to acquire a general awareness of a subject, but one should always go beyond that one page. No website, not even one as useful as Wikipedia, can adequately express all of the facets of an issue like this in a perfectly truthful manner.
Funny that you mention Wikipedia's errors. I edit Wikipedia myself, I have over 1024 edits, and oddly enough, this page, "pro-life" is very much under my watchlist.
Secondly, jsut because a term is used more commonly to mean something doesn't make it the only definition. Secondly Dictionary (dot) com sucks as a source - it's bad with etymology and doesn't provide all meanings of the word. Try Fanny - where it can mean anything from an egg basket to a vagina.
...hrm. I don't suppose you'd be IronCrow? We can continue the main discussion on the talk page, if so...
And don't misunderstand me - I absolutely love Wikipedia, and I do what I can to help occasionally, but it should never be confused with being the absolute perfect truth.
The definition of "pro-life" is not an opinion, it is a fact. "Pro-life" refers to one's opinion on abortion, specifically that abortion is wrong. It is apposed by "pro-choice", which believes that abortion is acceptable.
Pro-life only refers to being against abortion. Even if it was originally politically framed, that framing was so incredibly successful that it is now the only recognizable definition.
Wow, I wanted to post a comment on how, after all these years, Steve's music continues to challenge you and make you think, but I see an anti-this vs. anti-that screaming and bold faced letters nursery school fight has broken out...but then again maybe that just proves the point.
actually pro life means just what it says: against abortion, against the death penalty and against war. The conservative Republicans use it to only apply to abortion, but pro-life means PRO-LIFE. Get your facts straight.
About the whole global warming thing, climatologists have discovered that the Earth has cooled down in recent years enough to counter 100 years of global warming!!! The liberals are just trying to keep the nation divided with things like that! Thumbs up, man.
I'm a conservative, and I think pacifists base their arguments on substance. Does 'turn the other cheek' have exceptions for war? The substance for many of them is the words and example of Christ. It's not easy to say that they are flat wrong.
However, pacifists and liberals are not the same thing. And liberals often do try to reason from selectively chosen abstract moral imperatives without regards to reality, which makes for ugly policy. Although the GOP hasn't been inspiring either lately.
Except that they've also lost their way with social justice- which is too bad. It was the Republicans that ended up championing emancipation in the Civil War era, but in the 60's it was the Democrats forging ahead.
As much as I favour financial conservatism, the Republicans have been ignoring the disenfrancised for far too long. I'm not American, but I wish I could cherry pick the best of Dem/GOP or the Conserv/Lib/NDP.
I agree!!! But the republican and democratic primaries tend to only select the most extreme of their party, usually. Maybe not this time, but usually.
Actually, Pro-life DOES mean anti-death penalty, you need to check your facts instead of lsitening to just one side of the spectrum says. Pro-life is a term representing perspectives of bioethics. You can even find it on Wikipedia. If it was just anti-abortion it would wouldn't be called "Pro-Life." And no, you don't have to "pick sides" in politics, that's just going to continue the stupid republican vs democrat argument.
You may or may not be right about your definition of 'pro-life', but Wikipedia probably isn't the best source. I think pro-life means different things to different people. I think if there's discussion it should be over SHOULD it include pacifism, anti-death penalty, etc, not it DOES or it DOESN't and SCREW YOU IF YOU DISAGREE.
I know pro-life includes anti-abortion, maybe anti-war and anti-DP, but I think it could go either way. I think attacking ST for not being anti-war enough is a bit odd.
Amen. Thanks for stating this. I am a volunteer counselor at a Care Pregnancy Center. We are actually 2 buildings over from an abortion clinic. I am pro life and pro death penalty. Life should be valued to the extent if one doesn't value life and has taken it or hurt others (in extreme cases) his life should no longer be valued to PROTECT others lives which might be harmed or taken by such a person. I love Steve Taylor. I had the pleasure of meeting his a few years ago. He is quite a man !
Ok here's another quote from ST and also why I tend to disagree with your ST-Republican association.
"Christianity in America is really characterized by these huge, traditional establishments where money talks, and the emphasis is off Jesus and onto the worship of success and self-esteem. We've got to establish a new focus...
You know, just because I am a pro-lifer doesn't mean I automatically buy into the full agenda of the Christian right. We've got to question this concept of spiritial authority that makes it so easy to give up the responsibility we all have to make decisions based on what God reveals to each of us as individuals." ST
You have a point. I've always said that you should try and keep religion and politics separate. If anything your religion should determine your politics. I guess we just have to pick the best out of a bad lot.
Well, I can't take credit for ST's quotes- they are his quotes after all. Hopefully some of my points make sense- it's so hard to have a decent discussion with the word limit...
I'm definitly not part of the Christian Right. I'm pretty much in the middle of the political spectrum, but I tend to have liberal leanings. Though I am Pro-life - which in truth means anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, etc.
I would probably consider myself right of centre- on the other hand the Right has completely lost the social justice issues. Caring for the orphan, the widow, and the alien is all over the OT and NT. Yet somehow, this has been relegated to a sideline issue.
Norton- sorry there is some double posting- for some reason my comments don't always appear right away and some of my comment of gone out of order, hopefully you can figure them out :)
Steve Taylor is truly missed -- I wish he hadn't gone behind the scenes. We need more people writing thought provoking songs pointing out the nonsense in the evangelical church these days.
I fail to see what how dead Iraqi's bears any relevance on ST- US wasn't even in Iraq, when ST's career finished.
Unless you're referring to HW Bush, but in that case ST was on a bit of hiatus during those years. (Label dropped him because of the Clinic controversy, etc) Furthermore, most anti-war songs are not controversial so much as politicized and reactionary (and I have pacifist leanings).
eddiefalhaus, I have to chew on your comments for a while, because they are thought-provoking, but quickly tonight I would say that I agree 100% that "most anti-war songs are not controversial so much as politicized and reactionary".
But I will respond in the next few days no doubt with more substance.
Even singing about the pope, raised the ire of some ("To Forgive"- which I don't that controversial myself, but for some that was a terrible thing to do (ever read hardcore anti-papal rants, those guys are intense)).
Attacking a right wing Christian University wasn't a common occurance either- look at Amy Grant, Mike Smith, Petra, whatever have you. Yes, mainstream musicians may have sung the same and more as ST. But at the time, there wasn't many in America's Christendom that sang the stuff that ST did.
I disagree that ST was a Republican/Reagan enthousiast. Both "It's a personal thing" and "Whatever Happened to Sin" lampoon politicians who use Christianity to win more votes.
I disagree that attacking Jimmy is similar to a rap diss. There was little precedent in mainstream Christian music for attacking public 'Christian' leaders.
eddie, "It's a Personal Thing" was an OVERTLY pro-Republican song. That was written right in the middle of the second wave of "Christian Conservative" Activism - which was all the rage in the White Churches in the 1980s.
To pretend Steve Taylor was not a part of that movement is a LIE. Just look at the lyrics of the song Personal Thing - it's sarcasm against a politician who keeps his "religion" too "personal".
Norton- I don't quite see it like that, a key line in my mind is "as I promised if elected this election day
with the help of God almight...I'll do it my way" I'm not sure that ST ever associated himself with Reagan, the Republicans or the Democrats for that matter. Where do you read that ST is pro-Reagan? In his many interviews he remains quite apolitcal. (I would also think it dangerous to closely associate oneself with a politician- I'm thinking of Billy Graham and Nixon)
In fact this is the same murmur that occured when Second Chance the movie was released. A film, while not the greatest, I think is worthwhile and also demonstrates some of the issues ST has with the Church in America.
"['It's A Personal Thing'] takes as its inspiration the large number of public figures who separate their personal beliefs from their politics, and are thus able to display a virtuosity at talking out of both sides of the mouth that can usually be accomplished only by glueing the middle part of one's lips together." ST
I think from this quote, the personalness is not so much a critique for not being blatant/ publically Christian, but rather are able to separate the two so that neither has any bearing on the other.
(Sorry this got out of order. "I would like to expand" comes before "In fact this is the same")
I think from this from quote, the attack is not so much on a lack of a public display of Christianity, so much as a complete separation where neither has any bearing on the other. Thus we have the chameleon politician, who can talk religion when he wants to, but can act in entirely manner.
I would like to expand one of my arguments- ST's focus was on the hypocrisy of the Church which I think is extremely important now as well as then. As such, much of what he wasadvocating does seem to be what mainstream Christianity says they believe. However, more often then not, what is said, is not what is done is not the same. Many of his songs point out the difference, which is where the controversy comes in- nobody likes having their dirty laundry hung out in public-
Norton- Why the angst? You've been machinegunning this thread. You don't find ST controversial, fair enough. What one finds controversial, another won't, especially with a gap in time. (And sometimes being controversial to one, will make you welcome in another camp.) But during ST's career, people found him controversial, so I don't how you argue that he was not. For them he was (and I suspect now he still would be).
eddiefalhaus, ST's "controversy" tweaked a few obvious White Evangelical issues, while distracting from far more serious issues. Like war. (before Iraq obviously)
At the end of the day he sold records to a young white Evangelical market just like Jimmy Swaggart sold records to an elderly white Evangelical market. They dissed each other and got press. What's the witness exactly?
I agree that he could have dealt with some more serious issues,but then that could be said of a lot of other artists. The televangelist's might have been attacked a few too many times, but I'm not sure the issues he dealt with were so trivial.
I think taken as a whole, ST's focus was attacking hypocrisy in the Church in its many forms. I really think this is really important, because if we aren't real, if we are phony, how can do even have licence to speak up when a serious issue comes up, such as war or social justice?
eddiefalhaus, I made a mistake and I must apologize. I said that ST distracted from real issues like war and said it was "before Iraq".
I was wrong. The GOP was openly supporting Saddam Hussein in the '80s and Steve Taylor never said a word about it, while almost openly supporting Reagan and the Republican party. So there is that.
Ok, America's support of Saddam, then reversal during the Gulf War, etc was certainly a good thing to protest. (Although, Saddam wouldn't win any humanitarian awards.)However, I wouldn't necessarily equate that with tacit agreement. He could have protested, as could a lot of other people.
However, I think is prime objective- exposing hypocricy in the church, was not really being accomplished by anyone else and therefore important. I am repeating my question, but whatever- where do you see the almost open support? I haven't seen any evidence myself, but perhaps you have something?
However, I think his prime objective- exposing hypocricy in the church, was not really being accomplished by anyone else and therefore important. I am repeating my question, but whatever- where do you see the almost open support? I haven't seen any evidence myself, but perhaps you have something?
Please read my comments/opinion about this song/video/topic at MySpace... Me, Steve Taylor and all those being attacked/ridiculed here, regarding this song, are NOT DYING TODAY, but the BABIES "fetuses" ARE- Instead of shouting/debating about this Song, SHOUT/Debate/Argue, instead Today, TO SAVE a Baby's Life...
A real controversial song for ST to have written would be narrated by Paul Hill or the earlier clinic bomber. Regardless of your opinion they were trying to prevent unborn children being killed. If you believe abortion is murder, they stopped murders that day, if temporarily.
But that would have been way to controversial for ST. Ironic though they still banned his "anti-clinic violence" record cause the Christian bookstores didn't like the album cover which look like Tarot cards.
To all Christians- sorry about using that language here, but I wanted to say the 'godly, Christ-like' loving language in ythe same type of speech that Norton wants to justfy so he can feel right in using.
re language I got to say this. Billy Graham spent years sucking up to politicians, doing "prayer photo ops" on the white house lawn, etc. When he heard the Nixon tapes he said he was "upset" to hear Nixon use such strong language.
Note - not a word about Nixon's lying, his crimes, his bombings of Vietnamese pregnant mothers, his false propaganda to prolong the war. Graham was just mad he swore like a sailor. That's Caucasian Conservative Republican "Christianity" for you.
harry4health - reverse racism? The race card? What are you talking about? We are talking about the music business here - you realize that they target different ethnic groups don't you? Steve Taylor has a specific demographic - white teens from conservative Republican families who claim to be Christian. That's not a slam that's reality. How is he any different than a "secular" artist that targets white teens? Or black teens?
Allow me to get Pentacostal on your Caesar asses - Steve Taylor and your record company, Maomart, mammon loving so-called "Christian" corporations are not going to get away with it anymore. The Televangelists are mostly dead or in jail and the fakers like Steve Taylor and the rest of the so-called "Contemporary Christian Music" CCM garbage is going down as well.
You defame Christ to the nations and you will be forgotten in two years. Weep for the misery coming upon you rich people.
The song is controversial because the song criticizes anyone who claims to be a pro-life activist who would blow up abortion clinics or kill doctors. Satire. Nothing about a guy who shot an abortionist years after the song was written. And also, I wouldn't count this guy as a Republican... Infact... I know conservatisves AND liberals didn't agree with the guy. Now, I'm not one who listens to just Christian music, I like loads of stuff... so be that as it may... I guess...
It is really great that one video is generating all this buzz. Speaking from one who was into ST back in the day when I was in a youth group...ahh youth... Taylor was pretty controversial-so much so that lots of my friends weren't allowed to listen to him, many youth pastors told parents we shouldn't by his tapes-nobody ever said that...at least at the time... about any other music that was out there except his.
Norton, it's obvious you hate ST. Well, I don't like R&B and modern rap. But I'm not going to Jagged Edge and Kanye West videos and spewing NONSENSE aboout rap/r&b artists and their fans. Why? Because it is childish and rude. You need to grow up.
How many other songs are called "I Blew Up the Clinic Real Good"? How many other songs even mention blowing up clinics? That's why it's controversial.
at a time when America really needed someone to help ease racial tension, Kanye instead chose to ignite them even more by accusing the President of the United States of hating black people. He is just another brainwashed "blame whitey" loser.
Heeartbreakcook-Kanye West sure does-reverse racism. He also speads bad excuse for music, and a huge ego (His ego is way out of proportion to his 'talent' level.
Zarbod, my mistake. I don't remember the name of the earlier ones that I assume inspired ST for this song.
I'll admit it may be controversial in the sense it even mentioned these incidents, but in the end he didn't say anything controversial about it - don't shoot abortionists and don't abort unborn babies is not a controversial stand.
I just don't see ST as being very controversial about much of anything.
Some arguments here are downrights dishonest. Larry Norman wrote in 1970 - "you got gonoreah on Valentine's day, you're still looking for that perfect lay - why don't you look into Jesus, he's got the answer?"
So what has ST done EVER that's even the slightest bit "controversial" - especially controversial for his target market of white suburban teens from self-described conservative Christian Republican families?
I really wish I could get an honest answer to that question.
The controversy was Paul Hill shooting an abortionist. ST's song was controversial only in the sense he mentioned the incident.
Did ST's song give us any insight? Did he make a point? What's the point? How is it clever? Don't shoot abortionists and don't have abortions? Who disagrees?
You didn't ask if it was insightful--just controverial. However, I think you may have your facts a little confused. Paul Hill committed his crime on 06 Dec 94. That was many years after the album came out. Granted, the title of the album talks about "predicting" the future but I don't think ST actually did.
The song encourages people to question extremeist viewpoints though. It hink that's good do to regardless of which side of the abortion debate you're on. Just a thought.
Just curious heartbreakcook - do you think that Romans 12 has anything to do with, say, the war in Iraq? Paul Hill called himself a soldier in the Army of God and our US Troops call themselves soldiers in the Army of the USA. Both do violence against evil-doers, yes? How does Romans 12 apply to soldiers, in the Army of God or the Army of the USA?
Baby Doe - Terri Schiavo 1984. Jenny - girl runs away, has sex, kills herself. There were 100 "Christian rock" songs like this - Degarmo & Key and Russ Taff both had one!
Whatever happened to sin - anti-abortion, anti-gay - same as Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, also the GOP platform of '86.
ST's "controversey" was strictly outfits and "jazzy sax solos." Aside from the cross dressing and tarot cards, he was Taylor-made! to sell to White teens from suburban GOP families.
Norton-another race card slam against ST-"White teens". His controversy was beyond the outfits & once dressing in drag as a teacher for "Lifeboat" (public school had kids decide who was worth saving & who should die. ST exposed that). If U had even close to enough knowledge of his lyrics & what they taught, mostly to the church (one exposing racism & Bob Jones University policies regarding Blacks), then U wouldn't say such nonsense. UR tongue is not submitted to biblical principles, either.
Us Christian kids in the 80s had little idea of how great we had with the likes of Steve Taylor. "I hung from gravity boots for my Napoleon complex"!!? Incredible.
thatisso80s 1 week ago
A GOOD OLDIE.
devonskylark 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thanks for uploading this video! If you want you can go to facebook, type in Alan Chrysler in independence,ks and look for a guy with 2 kids holding a cross next to a motor cycle. and add me and Ill accept. I have lots of cool things on my wall. Thanks!
alanac777 3 months ago
Satire? Yeah, that too. I call it a metaphor for what happened to Bera and Birsha, kings of Sodom and Gomorrah
trentholt 4 months ago
i got and understood every word he ever wrote - a master of satire. Since satire is for people with above average intelligence satirists are not always understood properly. irony,hyperbole,oxymorons,facetiousness and more create anger in some who take the words literally or do not read the entire work
Sharonfields123 5 months ago
Is anyone else reminded of Weird Al?
gelchert 5 months ago
The early years of "Sweet Tooth" from the "Twisted Metal" games?
LavenderDarwin 7 months ago
Grew up listening to Steve Taylor, Rez and so many others. Am now agnostic, but still love Steve Taylor!
Freak0id 7 months ago
Great tune; though I still like What Ever Happened To Sin a bit better!
wyzz69 9 months ago
So I don't get it... maybe if their were lyrics for it... can some one explain this song to me??
ExileTherin 11 months ago
@ExileTherin It's basically a song about an ice cream man who blew up an abortion clinic, not for any "pro-life" reason but simply because the abortionists killing all the children was going to put him out of a job.
The real meaning behind it is in opposition of bombing clinics or killing doctors, hence the line in the bridge "the end don't justify the means anytime." The preacher was condemning the ice cream man's actions.
ChristianMusician85 9 months ago
@ChristianMusician85 okay that makes sense :) Thanks for responding! I agree with the bridge.
I have listened to so much forign (asian) music that my brain doesn't pick up lyrics English the way it used to... hence why I was confused... I just listened/watched it again, and I still only picked up a few words now and then... If I listen enough times I will be able to hear the lyrics I'm sure :) Thanks again!
ExileTherin 9 months ago
Steve Taylor in top form... this and 'I Want To Be A Clone' changed my life.... Or was it the pixies?
Oldshirt 1 year ago 2
He gets shot by a dalek at 3:32.
captaintorvin 1 year ago
hahahaha I had a friend tell me that this song was promoting murder of abortionists. I just broke out laughing and then when I picked myself up off the floor I tried to explain about "Christian Satire" lol
jeffra85 1 year ago
LOL-- Choose Life Tshirts in the crowd! For you George Michael fans, he got the idea from Debbie Boone!
modspell 1 year ago
@modspell I used to have one of those!!
dbwokc 1 year ago
Dave Thrush will be doing a LIVE interview on Ethan Tudor W's "The Neverhood Show" at Blog Talk Radio, Monday Oct. 25th at 10am (PST). Dave will be on to talk about his days touring with Christian Superstar "Steve Taylor", and will be taking LIVE call in questions from the fans. It's at The Neverhood Show, at Blog Talk Radio Dot Com, The LIVE call in number is 1-347-324-3691. Dave Thrush was the Sax Player with "Steve Taylor & Some Band" for MOST of Steve's touring career.
panasker 1 year ago
I miss Steve Taylor... maybe he'll have one more album in him somewhere
johnnyarockalypse 1 year ago
@johnnyarockalypse He actually writes quite a bit of music. He does a lot with the Newsboys. He's still pretty active. ^_^
kareeshvalendar 1 year ago
I guess you can crash commercial aircraft into buildings with people inside them, and then get to set up a shrine with people who support the ideology behind the disaster near the crash site (with the blessing of the goverment no less). But, what would happen if a christian blew up an abortion clinic (with no one inside of course) and built a church in it's place instead? Hmmmm, no wonder Steve wrote Escher's World!
thep51liberated 1 year ago
Steve Taylor was the man. Always cutting edge and controversial.
PrimetimeD 1 year ago
now I don't care if it's a baby or a tissue blob, but if we run out of youngsters, I'll be out of a job! so i did my duty cleaning up the neighborhood... i blew up the clinic - real good!
I stood up on my van and said, "excuse me sir...
Ain't nothing wrong with this country a few plastic explosives wont cure!"
ChuckMock 1 year ago
Good video and message. I believe abortion is wrong but I will never understand how a person could ever consider themselves pro life while they're taking peoples lives. Talk about hypocrisy.
aggressiveregresser 1 year ago
what? could you explain what you mean?
ChuckMock 1 year ago
@ChuckMock I think the song is about people who are against abortion (I am, by the way) who take matters into their own hands and decide to blow up abortion clinics or kill doctors. Hope that helps!
God bless you!
cavgurl07 1 year ago
@cavgurl07 Its' about the hypocracy of people who attack the abortion clinics and doctors in the name of being "good christians". Google Steve Taylor and listen to what he says in his own words.
BMasters1969 1 year ago
Hey now all of us are going to be funding all these places with this new "Health Care Plan." So now we are going to have 320 million people who are killers....thanks Obama and fellow Democrates
deadmansgulf 1 year ago 3
This is one of my favorite Steve Taylor songs, and sadly one of the most misunderstood ones. The controversy stemmed from critics who did not listen to ALL the lyrics. Taylor made a comment in the song about "the end don't justify the means anytime". This exposed the hypocrisy in blowing up abortion clinics as a form of protest against abortion. But, given the paranoia in both CCM and MTV, Taylor's best song would unintentionally torpedo his music career, as it was banned from airplay.
jsc1215 1 year ago 2
@jsc1215 "The controversy stemmed from critics who did not listen to ALL the lyrics." When does the drive-by liberal media ever read everything, or take quotes in context? The more open-minded, the more progressive, the more univ-educated, the less-able to understand satire.
axemurderer4hire 1 year ago
@axemurderer4hire "When does the drive-by liberal media ever read everything, or take quotes in context?"
Sadly, the problem back when the song/album was released wasn't primarily liberals - it was Christian radio that could not deal with pointed satire. Sigh.
Doesn't change how good the song was/is, though...
akapastorguy 1 year ago
@akapastorguy You correct! i remember fondly when this song came out, it had the liberals, anti-life folks up in arms! Sadly, the Christian community was afraid to speak out and speak up in support of this video for fear of seeming "evil". It was a great time in Christian music, many great things happened back then
TangoDown229 9 months ago
wow, I love this. where are you now and why don' t your do more of this? Steve, you taught me how to communicate.
Ric deGroot, Quidkflight
dikregrett 2 years ago
I saw Steve Taylor at Gordon College MANY years ago. When he played this song, he got his Ice Cream Man outfit on & had a cooler full of water baloons. During the song he was throwing them out into the audience. Well, one of them didn't get thrown that hard, and the fan caught it and threw it back. The electric guitarist's face lit up in panic (water/electricity), so Steve took the next balloon and threw it at the same guy as hard as he could. It was Awesome!
Galilee1964 2 years ago
I think my Dad was at that same concert, did he come out for a oncor with a Gordon sweater singing we don't need no color code?
SUPERMEDIABROTHERS6 2 years ago
@Galilee1964 I was at that same concert! I will never forget ST in that suit chucking water balloons...didn't realize until now that there was a video with concert clips showing it.
goopfish42 7 months ago
@goopfish42 I remember after that happened, (and it was like the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd song) I laughed and said "Well, I've gotten my $10 worth (that's all the tickets cost back then) I can go home now!" Of course I stayed, but what a riot! And what a show.
Galilee1964 7 months ago
@Galilee1964 *sigh* ah, yes, the days of $10 concert tickets. I also saw him at an outdoor festival of some kind, also in that area. Maybe even on the Gordon campus? At that one the most memorable song was Lifeboat.
goopfish42 7 months ago
I love Steve Taylor and the message of Jesus which he spread !!! Thanx Much
13840collinsroad 2 years ago
excellent sax!
dikregrett 2 years ago
The world of Christian music, nay, the world of MUSIC is a poorer place without Steve Taylor and stuff like this. Never, ever bettered - he'd have so much ammunition for new songs with the state of things today across the globe. Sorely missed and I and countless thousands live in hope he'll be back...
EuroscepticUK 2 years ago 31
You, sir or madame, are a genius and I couldn't agree with you more!
05neal 2 years ago
actualy Steve's been writing most of the songs for the band The Newsboys and even sang with them in a song Yo Ho Hero for the Pirates Who Don't Do Anything movie!
SUPERMEDIABROTHERS6 2 years ago
@EuroscepticUK I agree with you. But he wouldn't be accepted today. Too much risk of "offending somoene" Tis a shame
dbwokc 1 year ago
Only Steve Taylor could have done this. Only Steve Taylor would have done this.
Will this guy ever make another album?
05neal 2 years ago 2
I hope he has one more album in him!
johnnyarockalypse 2 years ago
I hope he does, too. I wish they would release the second Chagal Guevarra album!
Life is so unfair!
05neal 2 years ago
:19 and :33 Ha Ha
orrjamesjames 2 years ago
Classic Steve Taylor! Only he could pull this off!
tray74 2 years ago
awesome steve in his prime!
MrBiggerben 2 years ago
Geddy Lee looked so different in the 80s, omg
gilsams12 2 years ago
I love this guy he goes where other Christians won't dare go because aww it just isn't right GET OVER IT He knows what hes talking about.
lanceyoulot 2 years ago 3
And that's why he remains one of my favorite Christian artists even though I'm an Atheist now.
magus77578 2 years ago
Good-invisible-men-in-your-skies stop sending me platitudes about Jesus, love, puppies, and rainbows.
I said I'm an atheist. I didn't arrive here haphazardly or without due thought as your preachers might have you believe.
magus77578 2 years ago
Well said, well said.
lanceyoulot 2 years ago
Check out that ice cream truck! Do they still use that kind any more? I mean, the steering wheel is on the RIGHT hand side. What is that...a converted U.S. Mail truck? That vehicle really dates this video.
Santaanacanyon 3 years ago
Best possible comment, you sir, or madame, are a saint.
DidiHylobates 2 years ago
Um, yeah. I was a Christian once. Was raised that way, and was one of the most devoted to the cause and what-have-you...
Long story short, now I'm an atheist, but Taylor is a real believer, and if you take this song too seriously, Jesus is literally rolling over in his grave. Few truer believers have I seen than Mr. Taylor. I used to listen to one of his albums constantly. Don't be a clone. Understand that your faith has to be personal to be real.
That is all.
magus77578 3 years ago 2
Hey you should allow God back in your life you seem as if you were a pretty good Christian. Your choice man but hey God loves you.
lanceyoulot 2 years ago
It's sad the satirical nature of this song goes right over most people's heads. It really is a brilliant song.
For those that want to read Steve's Biblical influence for this song, go to:
Romans 12:17-21
johnnyarockalypse 3 years ago 3
Looks like Steve Taylor pulled a Ray Stevens.
LthrnZack 3 years ago
Are these "Sisters of Mercy" sunglasses?
rufuszofenluder 3 years ago
It's called satire people get over it!
christophilus 3 years ago 14
JESUS never killed anybody. HE showed grace to sinners but, the pious religious people of HIS day HE was tough on. " The ends don't justify the means anytime." I'm not saying abortion should not be stopped. We should work with in the governmental system and more importantly pray.
LouisFarrell 3 years ago
Sorry mate... even Jesus disagreed with you... he destroyed the tables of the money changers in the temples... Abortion murder houses should be destroyed, the murderers charged and life sentences imposed... the so-called mothers should be accessories to murder.. full stop. Abortion i simply the worst sort of murder ever invented.
keewipete 3 years ago
re: keewipete
Eh? I don't know if you're for real, but equivocating wooden tables and people's lives is a serious mistake and is seriously missing the entire point of the song...
eddiefalhaus 3 years ago
abortion is murder... blow em up if you want... but do not ever hurt people.. they are God's creation... just like unborn babies that are cut to pieces in the name of contraception
keewipete 3 years ago
Part of the point of the song is that two wrongs don't make a right. I agree with you that abortion is wrong, but that does not justify further sin in rebellion against government and property.
andywon489 3 years ago 5
I Predict... was released in 1987. I bought it. At around that time. I am now grown up. I know that. I am saying the song would now not be regarded as very PC , especially by the right wingers. The song has a double meaning and a comedy...Doh! That's what I said!!!! :D The song is not actually funny - it's terrifying. Hitler regarded Jews as damaging for the German economy amongst other things. Look what he tried to do. There is a parallel, which ST is pointing out.
MarkPMus 3 years ago
You need to read the notes in ST's "Now the truth can be told" Double CD. Phrases like, "Reasonabe people on both sides of the abortion debate could argue that this was not a song that needed to be written..." and, "I called her at the show's request to explain that it was satire" give the game away somewhat. Bbeninnh's comment is misguided. It's not about "putting it on the line", it's about a twat. If the bloke blew up a pickled onion factory not a clinic people would get the message!
MarkPMus 3 years ago
Apology accepted qix77. Btw, a twat ie UK slang for idiot. And the idiot in the song is "what's wrong with this country", and he goes up in his own smoke. Like I said, people get bogged down with the abortion issue. If I was arguing about that I'd be on writing about ST's song Baby Doe.
MarkPMus 3 years ago
I live in the UK that's England not the mid west. ST is homophobic and bigotted, I'll grant you. But in this song he was targetting people who would use violence against others in the name of having a good cause. It is sarcasm.
MarkPMus 3 years ago
You tell me where I'm mixed up? Are you telling me that writing a song about someone who wants to blow up an abortion clinic because of lost revenue in ice cream sales is not sarcasm? In today's post 9/11 climate anyone who took this literally as condemnation of abortion would be seen as pro terrorism. As I said, whilst ST is definitely not pro abortion, he's sending up those anti campaigners who resorted to violence. The ice cream man goes up in flames at the end. Watch.
MarkPMus 3 years ago
Whilst not agreeing with abortion himself, ST does portray the subject of the song as a total bigot, which he is, that is a hefty dose of sarcasm at the end, and in the "Ain't nothing wrong" line the bloke himself goes up! The problem with "saying it like it is" is that those who appreciate there's some debate in the matter get branded "pro-death". Jesus (God, Krishna etc) is for losers - all of us, including those torturing themselves with guilt over this matter.
MarkPMus 3 years ago
He said he's got a Napolean complex..
A4est 3 years ago
Too cool! I still laugh at ice cream trucks today thanks to Steve
njcnetdude 3 years ago
While I can't say I would blow up a clinic, I can understand the feeling and thank god for heroes who put it on the line and act out their faith. I'll send money and prayers to them.
We're all warriors for god.
bbeninnh 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Abortions Tickle. I like ice cream.
Cinemajig 3 years ago
Steve kicks azz, as usual, and it's the pro-death, two-faced baby butchers that squirm when he gets out his razor-sharp wit and musical talent and slices and dices their greed and anti-humanity. Rock on, man, and keep telling it like it really is!
MatMann 3 years ago 2
"Pro-life is... It can be used to indicate opposition to practices such as euthanasia, human cloning, research involving human embryonic stem cells, and the death penalty, but most commonly (especially in the media and popular discourse) to abortion, and support for fetal rights. The term describes the political and ethical view which maintains that fetuses and embryos are human beings, and therefore have a right to live."
iwebber88 3 years ago
And thus we see the downside of Wikipedia. It by no means is the be-all and end-all of truth, and it makes no claim to be. Wikipedia is a fantastic tool to *begin* research, and to acquire a general awareness of a subject, but one should always go beyond that one page. No website, not even one as useful as Wikipedia, can adequately express all of the facets of an issue like this in a perfectly truthful manner.
Vadskye 3 years ago
In that vein, I'm starting a discussion on the talk page of Wikipedia to consider redefining "pro-life" to be more in line with its actual usage.
Vadskye 3 years ago
Funny that you mention Wikipedia's errors. I edit Wikipedia myself, I have over 1024 edits, and oddly enough, this page, "pro-life" is very much under my watchlist.
Secondly, jsut because a term is used more commonly to mean something doesn't make it the only definition. Secondly Dictionary (dot) com sucks as a source - it's bad with etymology and doesn't provide all meanings of the word. Try Fanny - where it can mean anything from an egg basket to a vagina.
iwebber88 3 years ago
...hrm. I don't suppose you'd be IronCrow? We can continue the main discussion on the talk page, if so...
And don't misunderstand me - I absolutely love Wikipedia, and I do what I can to help occasionally, but it should never be confused with being the absolute perfect truth.
Vadskye 3 years ago
And you misunderstood me. I never said that Wikipedia should be considered that.
iwebber88 3 years ago
What an awesome song! Too bad it was so misinterpreted!
blairelser 3 years ago 2
The definition of "pro-life" is not an opinion, it is a fact. "Pro-life" refers to one's opinion on abortion, specifically that abortion is wrong. It is apposed by "pro-choice", which believes that abortion is acceptable.
veryveryanonymous 3 years ago
That's called political framing. Even Wikipedia can agree with that.
iwebber88 3 years ago
dictionary(dot)reference(dot)com/browse/pro-life
en(dot)wiktionary(dot)org/wiki/pro-life
Pro-life only refers to being against abortion. Even if it was originally politically framed, that framing was so incredibly successful that it is now the only recognizable definition.
(stupid youtube censoring urls)
Vadskye 3 years ago
Which isn't what Wikipedia is about. Applicable laws and national/state Pro-life organizations use the term to mean just what it says.
If anti-abortion was the only recognizable definition, then there wouldn't be me here arguing about it.
iwebber88 3 years ago
Wow, I wanted to post a comment on how, after all these years, Steve's music continues to challenge you and make you think, but I see an anti-this vs. anti-that screaming and bold faced letters nursery school fight has broken out...but then again maybe that just proves the point.
jhardwick1969 3 years ago
actually pro life means just what it says: against abortion, against the death penalty and against war. The conservative Republicans use it to only apply to abortion, but pro-life means PRO-LIFE. Get your facts straight.
jburk97035 3 years ago
actually pro life really means against abortion only. anti war and anti death penalty are 2 different issues all together.
soapgirl23 3 years ago
Saying that it is only abortion is an example of political framing, as I said.
iwebber88 3 years ago
Heh. Hope I'm not the only one to notice that all the "doctors" were vacuum cleaner brands.
valerie374 3 years ago 3
About the whole global warming thing, climatologists have discovered that the Earth has cooled down in recent years enough to counter 100 years of global warming!!! The liberals are just trying to keep the nation divided with things like that! Thumbs up, man.
TheLeftHand88 4 years ago
I'm a conservative, and I think pacifists base their arguments on substance. Does 'turn the other cheek' have exceptions for war? The substance for many of them is the words and example of Christ. It's not easy to say that they are flat wrong.
However, pacifists and liberals are not the same thing. And liberals often do try to reason from selectively chosen abstract moral imperatives without regards to reality, which makes for ugly policy. Although the GOP hasn't been inspiring either lately.
deliriou5freak 4 years ago 4
I hereby declare you INTELLIGENT! Yay!
(I'm a liberal who sympathizes with pacifists, but I think that war can be necessary - just because we don't fight doesn't mean everyone else won't.)
Vadskye 3 years ago
What does that have to do with anything?
iwebber88 3 years ago
Except that they've also lost their way with social justice- which is too bad. It was the Republicans that ended up championing emancipation in the Civil War era, but in the 60's it was the Democrats forging ahead.
As much as I favour financial conservatism, the Republicans have been ignoring the disenfrancised for far too long. I'm not American, but I wish I could cherry pick the best of Dem/GOP or the Conserv/Lib/NDP.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
I agree!!! But the republican and democratic primaries tend to only select the most extreme of their party, usually. Maybe not this time, but usually.
MPaulHolmes 4 years ago
Actually, Pro-life DOES mean anti-death penalty, you need to check your facts instead of lsitening to just one side of the spectrum says. Pro-life is a term representing perspectives of bioethics. You can even find it on Wikipedia. If it was just anti-abortion it would wouldn't be called "Pro-Life." And no, you don't have to "pick sides" in politics, that's just going to continue the stupid republican vs democrat argument.
iwebber88 4 years ago
You may or may not be right about your definition of 'pro-life', but Wikipedia probably isn't the best source. I think pro-life means different things to different people. I think if there's discussion it should be over SHOULD it include pacifism, anti-death penalty, etc, not it DOES or it DOESN't and SCREW YOU IF YOU DISAGREE.
I know pro-life includes anti-abortion, maybe anti-war and anti-DP, but I think it could go either way. I think attacking ST for not being anti-war enough is a bit odd.
deliriou5freak 4 years ago 2
Amen. Thanks for stating this. I am a volunteer counselor at a Care Pregnancy Center. We are actually 2 buildings over from an abortion clinic. I am pro life and pro death penalty. Life should be valued to the extent if one doesn't value life and has taken it or hurt others (in extreme cases) his life should no longer be valued to PROTECT others lives which might be harmed or taken by such a person. I love Steve Taylor. I had the pleasure of meeting his a few years ago. He is quite a man !
clairebadger 4 years ago
I really REALLY miss Steve Taylor's songs.
jonikjon 4 years ago
My favorite Steve Taylor song.
iwebber88 4 years ago
He blows up an abortion clic. Quite right-- ABORTION IS MURDER OF AN UNBORN CHILD!!!
djjcuk 4 years ago
Um, that's exactly the ends-justify-the-means philosophy Steve Taylor is critiquing with this song. Two wrongs don't make a right.
reid77 4 years ago
Ok here's another quote from ST and also why I tend to disagree with your ST-Republican association.
"Christianity in America is really characterized by these huge, traditional establishments where money talks, and the emphasis is off Jesus and onto the worship of success and self-esteem. We've got to establish a new focus...
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
You know, just because I am a pro-lifer doesn't mean I automatically buy into the full agenda of the Christian right. We've got to question this concept of spiritial authority that makes it so easy to give up the responsibility we all have to make decisions based on what God reveals to each of us as individuals." ST
Hope that helps.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
Goodness, I keep finding these quotes- you should just google ST Sock Heaven, it's a pretty good website.
"But I guess it depends on how you define politics. I just don't want to be involved with one political party, as if God was a right-wing Republican.
Ultimately political parties always disappoint us. The important things are the issues, not the politics per se." ST
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago 2
You have a point. I've always said that you should try and keep religion and politics separate. If anything your religion should determine your politics. I guess we just have to pick the best out of a bad lot.
djjcuk 4 years ago
Well, I can't take credit for ST's quotes- they are his quotes after all. Hopefully some of my points make sense- it's so hard to have a decent discussion with the word limit...
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
I'm definitly not part of the Christian Right. I'm pretty much in the middle of the political spectrum, but I tend to have liberal leanings. Though I am Pro-life - which in truth means anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, etc.
iwebber88 4 years ago
I would probably consider myself right of centre- on the other hand the Right has completely lost the social justice issues. Caring for the orphan, the widow, and the alien is all over the OT and NT. Yet somehow, this has been relegated to a sideline issue.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
I agree. I hate how politics are today.
iwebber88 4 years ago
Norton- sorry there is some double posting- for some reason my comments don't always appear right away and some of my comment of gone out of order, hopefully you can figure them out :)
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
Steve Taylor is truly missed -- I wish he hadn't gone behind the scenes. We need more people writing thought provoking songs pointing out the nonsense in the evangelical church these days.
terriergal 4 years ago
I fail to see what how dead Iraqi's bears any relevance on ST- US wasn't even in Iraq, when ST's career finished.
Unless you're referring to HW Bush, but in that case ST was on a bit of hiatus during those years. (Label dropped him because of the Clinic controversy, etc) Furthermore, most anti-war songs are not controversial so much as politicized and reactionary (and I have pacifist leanings).
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
eddiefalhaus, I have to chew on your comments for a while, because they are thought-provoking, but quickly tonight I would say that I agree 100% that "most anti-war songs are not controversial so much as politicized and reactionary".
But I will respond in the next few days no doubt with more substance.
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
Fair enough, thanks for taking the time. Just a question, what does GOP stand for? I'm not familiar with that acronym.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
Grand Old Party
deliriou5freak 4 years ago
Even singing about the pope, raised the ire of some ("To Forgive"- which I don't that controversial myself, but for some that was a terrible thing to do (ever read hardcore anti-papal rants, those guys are intense)).
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
(the 500 limit is too short)
Attacking a right wing Christian University wasn't a common occurance either- look at Amy Grant, Mike Smith, Petra, whatever have you. Yes, mainstream musicians may have sung the same and more as ST. But at the time, there wasn't many in America's Christendom that sang the stuff that ST did.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
I disagree that ST was a Republican/Reagan enthousiast. Both "It's a personal thing" and "Whatever Happened to Sin" lampoon politicians who use Christianity to win more votes.
I disagree that attacking Jimmy is similar to a rap diss. There was little precedent in mainstream Christian music for attacking public 'Christian' leaders.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
eddie, "It's a Personal Thing" was an OVERTLY pro-Republican song. That was written right in the middle of the second wave of "Christian Conservative" Activism - which was all the rage in the White Churches in the 1980s.
To pretend Steve Taylor was not a part of that movement is a LIE. Just look at the lyrics of the song Personal Thing - it's sarcasm against a politician who keeps his "religion" too "personal".
ST was/is a Reagan loving Republican stooge.
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
Norton- I don't quite see it like that, a key line in my mind is "as I promised if elected this election day
with the help of God almight...I'll do it my way" I'm not sure that ST ever associated himself with Reagan, the Republicans or the Democrats for that matter. Where do you read that ST is pro-Reagan? In his many interviews he remains quite apolitcal. (I would also think it dangerous to closely associate oneself with a politician- I'm thinking of Billy Graham and Nixon)
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
Furthermore, what of Whatever Happened to Sin? That specifically references Bible belt politicians.
Although not his most popular song, "Over My Dead Body" was a song dealing with the injustice in post-Soviet Poland- a serious, I would think.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
In fact this is the same murmur that occured when Second Chance the movie was released. A film, while not the greatest, I think is worthwhile and also demonstrates some of the issues ST has with the Church in America.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
"['It's A Personal Thing'] takes as its inspiration the large number of public figures who separate their personal beliefs from their politics, and are thus able to display a virtuosity at talking out of both sides of the mouth that can usually be accomplished only by glueing the middle part of one's lips together." ST
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
I think from this quote, the personalness is not so much a critique for not being blatant/ publically Christian, but rather are able to separate the two so that neither has any bearing on the other.
(Sorry this got out of order. "I would like to expand" comes before "In fact this is the same")
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
I think from this from quote, the attack is not so much on a lack of a public display of Christianity, so much as a complete separation where neither has any bearing on the other. Thus we have the chameleon politician, who can talk religion when he wants to, but can act in entirely manner.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
I would like to expand one of my arguments- ST's focus was on the hypocrisy of the Church which I think is extremely important now as well as then. As such, much of what he wasadvocating does seem to be what mainstream Christianity says they believe. However, more often then not, what is said, is not what is done is not the same. Many of his songs point out the difference, which is where the controversy comes in- nobody likes having their dirty laundry hung out in public-
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
Norton- Why the angst? You've been machinegunning this thread. You don't find ST controversial, fair enough. What one finds controversial, another won't, especially with a gap in time. (And sometimes being controversial to one, will make you welcome in another camp.) But during ST's career, people found him controversial, so I don't how you argue that he was not. For them he was (and I suspect now he still would be).
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
eddiefalhaus, ST's "controversy" tweaked a few obvious White Evangelical issues, while distracting from far more serious issues. Like war. (before Iraq obviously)
At the end of the day he sold records to a young white Evangelical market just like Jimmy Swaggart sold records to an elderly white Evangelical market. They dissed each other and got press. What's the witness exactly?
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
I agree that he could have dealt with some more serious issues,but then that could be said of a lot of other artists. The televangelist's might have been attacked a few too many times, but I'm not sure the issues he dealt with were so trivial.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
I think taken as a whole, ST's focus was attacking hypocrisy in the Church in its many forms. I really think this is really important, because if we aren't real, if we are phony, how can do even have licence to speak up when a serious issue comes up, such as war or social justice?
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
re: Swaggart. The result was they both got press, but I wonder if that was the intended/ motivating factor for ST?
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
eddiefalhaus, I made a mistake and I must apologize. I said that ST distracted from real issues like war and said it was "before Iraq".
I was wrong. The GOP was openly supporting Saddam Hussein in the '80s and Steve Taylor never said a word about it, while almost openly supporting Reagan and the Republican party. So there is that.
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
Ok, America's support of Saddam, then reversal during the Gulf War, etc was certainly a good thing to protest. (Although, Saddam wouldn't win any humanitarian awards.)However, I wouldn't necessarily equate that with tacit agreement. He could have protested, as could a lot of other people.
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
However, I think is prime objective- exposing hypocricy in the church, was not really being accomplished by anyone else and therefore important. I am repeating my question, but whatever- where do you see the almost open support? I haven't seen any evidence myself, but perhaps you have something?
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
However, I think his prime objective- exposing hypocricy in the church, was not really being accomplished by anyone else and therefore important. I am repeating my question, but whatever- where do you see the almost open support? I haven't seen any evidence myself, but perhaps you have something?
eddiefalhaus 4 years ago
Nice take on the idiotic thinking that rules some people's minds. It's good that Steve put some light on this subject.
Wantabanana 4 years ago
Please read my comments/opinion about this song/video/topic at MySpace... Me, Steve Taylor and all those being attacked/ridiculed here, regarding this song, are NOT DYING TODAY, but the BABIES "fetuses" ARE- Instead of shouting/debating about this Song, SHOUT/Debate/Argue, instead Today, TO SAVE a Baby's Life...
christianslion 4 years ago
A real controversial song for ST to have written would be narrated by Paul Hill or the earlier clinic bomber. Regardless of your opinion they were trying to prevent unborn children being killed. If you believe abortion is murder, they stopped murders that day, if temporarily.
But that would have been way to controversial for ST. Ironic though they still banned his "anti-clinic violence" record cause the Christian bookstores didn't like the album cover which look like Tarot cards.
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
To all Christians- sorry about using that language here, but I wanted to say the 'godly, Christ-like' loving language in ythe same type of speech that Norton wants to justfy so he can feel right in using.
harry4health 4 years ago
re language I got to say this. Billy Graham spent years sucking up to politicians, doing "prayer photo ops" on the white house lawn, etc. When he heard the Nixon tapes he said he was "upset" to hear Nixon use such strong language.
Note - not a word about Nixon's lying, his crimes, his bombings of Vietnamese pregnant mothers, his false propaganda to prolong the war. Graham was just mad he swore like a sailor. That's Caucasian Conservative Republican "Christianity" for you.
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
harry4health - reverse racism? The race card? What are you talking about? We are talking about the music business here - you realize that they target different ethnic groups don't you? Steve Taylor has a specific demographic - white teens from conservative Republican families who claim to be Christian. That's not a slam that's reality. How is he any different than a "secular" artist that targets white teens? Or black teens?
In either case how is it Christian?
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
Allow me to get Pentacostal on your Caesar asses - Steve Taylor and your record company, Maomart, mammon loving so-called "Christian" corporations are not going to get away with it anymore. The Televangelists are mostly dead or in jail and the fakers like Steve Taylor and the rest of the so-called "Contemporary Christian Music" CCM garbage is going down as well.
You defame Christ to the nations and you will be forgotten in two years. Weep for the misery coming upon you rich people.
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
The song is controversial because the song criticizes anyone who claims to be a pro-life activist who would blow up abortion clinics or kill doctors. Satire. Nothing about a guy who shot an abortionist years after the song was written. And also, I wouldn't count this guy as a Republican... Infact... I know conservatisves AND liberals didn't agree with the guy. Now, I'm not one who listens to just Christian music, I like loads of stuff... so be that as it may... I guess...
iwebber88 4 years ago
It is really great that one video is generating all this buzz. Speaking from one who was into ST back in the day when I was in a youth group...ahh youth... Taylor was pretty controversial-so much so that lots of my friends weren't allowed to listen to him, many youth pastors told parents we shouldn't by his tapes-nobody ever said that...at least at the time... about any other music that was out there except his.
gwurach 4 years ago
Norton, it's obvious you hate ST. Well, I don't like R&B and modern rap. But I'm not going to Jagged Edge and Kanye West videos and spewing NONSENSE aboout rap/r&b artists and their fans. Why? Because it is childish and rude. You need to grow up.
heartbreakcook 4 years ago
Jagged Edge and Kanye West don't go around pretending to spread the Gospel - difference.
Perhaps you could retreat back to your subculture to avoid all the mean people who aren't buying it?
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
How many other songs are called "I Blew Up the Clinic Real Good"? How many other songs even mention blowing up clinics? That's why it's controversial.
whovian85 4 years ago
No, Kanye West just spreads reverse racism.
heartbreakcook 4 years ago
Reverse racism? I don't know a thing about Kanye West, why don't you tell us about his "reverse racism"?
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
at a time when America really needed someone to help ease racial tension, Kanye instead chose to ignite them even more by accusing the President of the United States of hating black people. He is just another brainwashed "blame whitey" loser.
heartbreakcook 4 years ago
Heeartbreakcook-Kanye West sure does-reverse racism. He also speads bad excuse for music, and a huge ego (His ego is way out of proportion to his 'talent' level.
harry4health 4 years ago
Zarbod, my mistake. I don't remember the name of the earlier ones that I assume inspired ST for this song.
I'll admit it may be controversial in the sense it even mentioned these incidents, but in the end he didn't say anything controversial about it - don't shoot abortionists and don't abort unborn babies is not a controversial stand.
I just don't see ST as being very controversial about much of anything.
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
Some arguments here are downrights dishonest. Larry Norman wrote in 1970 - "you got gonoreah on Valentine's day, you're still looking for that perfect lay - why don't you look into Jesus, he's got the answer?"
So what has ST done EVER that's even the slightest bit "controversial" - especially controversial for his target market of white suburban teens from self-described conservative Christian Republican families?
I really wish I could get an honest answer to that question.
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
It was controversial because it talks about using violence for a political end. That's considered pretty controversial in most circles.
Zarbod 4 years ago
The controversy was Paul Hill shooting an abortionist. ST's song was controversial only in the sense he mentioned the incident.
Did ST's song give us any insight? Did he make a point? What's the point? How is it clever? Don't shoot abortionists and don't have abortions? Who disagrees?
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
You didn't ask if it was insightful--just controverial. However, I think you may have your facts a little confused. Paul Hill committed his crime on 06 Dec 94. That was many years after the album came out. Granted, the title of the album talks about "predicting" the future but I don't think ST actually did.
The song encourages people to question extremeist viewpoints though. It hink that's good do to regardless of which side of the abortion debate you're on. Just a thought.
Zarbod 4 years ago
Romans 12:17-21 was the inspiration for "Clinic". Read it.
heartbreakcook 4 years ago
Just curious heartbreakcook - do you think that Romans 12 has anything to do with, say, the war in Iraq? Paul Hill called himself a soldier in the Army of God and our US Troops call themselves soldiers in the Army of the USA. Both do violence against evil-doers, yes? How does Romans 12 apply to soldiers, in the Army of God or the Army of the USA?
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
Baby Doe - Terri Schiavo 1984. Jenny - girl runs away, has sex, kills herself. There were 100 "Christian rock" songs like this - Degarmo & Key and Russ Taff both had one!
Whatever happened to sin - anti-abortion, anti-gay - same as Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, also the GOP platform of '86.
ST's "controversey" was strictly outfits and "jazzy sax solos." Aside from the cross dressing and tarot cards, he was Taylor-made! to sell to White teens from suburban GOP families.
NortonYorksterdam 4 years ago
Norton-another race card slam against ST-"White teens". His controversy was beyond the outfits & once dressing in drag as a teacher for "Lifeboat" (public school had kids decide who was worth saving & who should die. ST exposed that). If U had even close to enough knowledge of his lyrics & what they taught, mostly to the church (one exposing racism & Bob Jones University policies regarding Blacks), then U wouldn't say such nonsense. UR tongue is not submitted to biblical principles, either.
harry4health 4 years ago