Napepe - Yanomami ask their blood back

[apaixonadaist]

the yanomami nation belongs to a country called Brazil...thats why this guy is speeking portuguese ...the brasilians are protecting these indians for centuries...thats why you still can see them alive in the middle of their tribe.We , brasilians, are very proud of our way to keep the nature and different cultures in your nation.You still can find some of these indians in venezuelan territory...but these indians in this videos are from Brazil...they are brasilian indians.

[Eeekxx]

Is the second guy speaking portuguese? Because I can actually understand some of that, and I am definitely not a Yanomani native. Lol

[Cladskine]

It is important that what was once the Yanomami's should continue to be rightfully theirs, land included. Do you hear that Brasilian government?

[defiythelie]

I just ran across a video made by a Muslim calling for the death of all these people because they dont know or accept allah.

[MyUnfamous]

@defiythelie Then tell that asshole that alah y there with them, and that they dont need to think as muslims to know that God is there with them.

[lastpoina]

Avatar shit.

[Roselime1]

People don't often realize the effects that non consensual experimentation by less than ethical researchers has on communities. Taking biological samples under false premises was a total violation. "Research" never trumps human rights. Perhaps the upcoming exposure of non consensual experimentation at Guantanamo will let people know that these things have been going on within the US and that subprojects of MK Ultra on behavior modification/interrogation didn't disappear completely.

[rnrmrr]

return their blood!

[Cicero1988]

Even if one disagrees with the conclusions Chagnon came to from his studies of the Yanomamo -- which are the most extensive and cogently articulated so far -- to claim that he committed academic fraud and, worse yet, fundamentally altered these societies and actually changed them from a peace-loving to a violent people, is absurd. He worked to ensure he imposed on their society as little as possible. By impugning Chagnon, you impugn the very basis of prudent participant observation.

[thislucidlife]

@Cicero1988 I couldn't have said it better. I would suggest that anyone that wants to know about the Yanomamo, and/or are interested in cultural anthropology to start with Chagnon's ethnology first.

[Roselime1]

@Cicero1988 The idea that there is some kind of untouched purity of "culture" that the anthropologist has no effect on when he/she is doing *participant* observation is more absurd.

[Cicero1988]

@Roselime1 Nowhere did I claim that Chagnon left these people untouched. I said that he did not *fundamentally* alter Yanomamo culture. What is truly absurd is believing that one man could change an entire society from fundamentally peaceful to fundamentally war-like the moment he enters their society, or even after years of sustained research.

[Roselime1]

@Cicero1988 Hi, I don't want to start a controversy here. There are two points when it comes to Chagnon: 1) did he intentionally portray them in a certain way to fit a theory and 2) what impact did he have on their "fierceness." I'm not sure anyone made the charge he changed things on a "fundamental" level... but then again is their "fierceness" fundamental or superficial? What comes into question is the issue of ethics when "studying" humans. Where does "science" begin and human rights end?

[Cicero1988]

@Roselime1 I also don't want to start a big controversy, just express my point, which is that all this quibbling about possible blood sample controversies, while surely important for many Yanomamo, obscures the big picture -- which is that Chagnon has done far more to help (or try to help, when the Catholic Church, and corporations with their eyes on the rain forest, get in the way) the Yanomamo than hurt them. I really do see your point, but I fear you might be missing the big picture.

[Roselime1]

@Cicero1988 We agree that human rights are important. We can start from the point of agreeing on something. For whatever reason, Chagnon gained more from his relationship with Yanomami than they did from him. Surely everybody thought they were helping somebody in some way - the Church had it's motives, maybe the corporations found ways to justify it but people got hurt. Blood might not seem important to you, but it is to them apparently. If you see my profile you would understand my POV.

[Cicero1988]

@Roselime1 Furthermore, by using the phrase "prudent participant observation", I clearly implied that I understood the inherent risks of unscrupulous people using the methodology of participant observation. But simply because some people are unscrupulous does not mean that all people are, and it certainly doesn't render participant observation itself immoral.

(Sorry about my reply being 2 posts, there are character limits for posts).

[Roselime1]

@Cicero1988 I don't have a problem with participant observation. The problem for many in anthropology is the issue of ethics. Chagnon was later charged with using illicit means to get the names of their ancestors, then there's the blood issue. The controversy serves to point out problems with ethnographic work. But then again, is that enough that it's another point for the discipline to agonize over if nothing comes out of it for the Yanomami or any other groups?

[Cicero1988]

@Roselime1 With essentially all of the charges of improprieties levied against Chagnon, it seems that most of them are about relatively minor points. Even if the blood samples were acquired through less than completely honest means (or, most likely, there was a cross-cultural miscommunication) this is far less important of an issue than something like Brazilian gold miners defiling Yanomamo lands and killing them -- an issue on which Chagnon expresses deep anger at the Brazilian gold miners.

[Cicero1988]

@Roselime1 (cont.) Chagnon has been among the most vocal proponents of Yanomamo rights in the most important issues, issues pertaining to the very survival of their various tribes and native culture and way of life. The end of his monograph especially is filled with exhortations to help the Yanomamo preserve their culture against the onslaught of institutions such as much of the Catholic hierarchy there and from Brazilian gold miners. Furthermore, he does care for their welfare.

[SpiteMeister]

I think there are institutions for trying to get the blood back to the Yanomami, but no one wants to take the risk of transporting biohazardous material across international boundaries. I think that's a new problem in this on-going struggle, but it also seems like it's doubling as an excuse to not return the blood. If only there were more cooperation in this world... :[

[Dilliboy63]

They're sending the blood samples to Hutukara - Associação Yanomami (the Yanomami NGO dedicated to helping the Yanomami), in Brasilia (the national capital).

[soobybabe]

it is my understanding that since that was decided, brazillian government had not provided the waiver to accept the blood samples back, and the National Cancer Institute who has requested it, are not taking any actions for 8 years since it's afriad they'll get sued.

[robertfrancesco]

give the blood back, the blood belong to the ianomame tribe, was illegally taked out Brazil.

Shame on those ONGs. They should be take to the international court for illegally humans body traffiking.

[skurski]

Based on my study of the controversy over research among the Yanomami, this video is a good argument for the return of Yanomami blood samples; these requests should be respected. The Public Anthropology website explains the issues.

[kajunshaman]

Chagnon and his theories were a fraud. He doctored evidence, manipulated the environment, including the yanomami themselves, to assert his theories about primitive male dominance by the stealing of wives. If you read Chagnon, he is so convinced that he's dealing with a tribe of violent savages, and this viewpoint seems to pervade his arguments. Thanks to him, a relatively peaceful people had had to carry the stigma of "fierce," a title that has been used to justify violence against them

[topologyrob]

You need to read more widely if you state that. Or have you been reading the dreadful Tierney's unfounded allegations?

[kajunshaman]

not, i actually followed the controversy in the newspaper and read anthropologists with as much knowledge on the Yanomani as Chagnon, and it's not hard to see how fraudulent his methods are. If you give machetes and axes and start to spread rumors, and brreak the taboos of those societies, and pitting towns against others, then most likely you would have not one but many "ax fights." besides, the fact he was involved with so many notorious people in Venezuela tarnishes his credibility

[BathtubPelican]

Why would they give their blood if the value it so much?

I've read Changnon's book long ago, and the Yanomamos seem no different from any peoples, they have their good traits and their bad. However, I was impressed by their integrity and lack of guile.

[RobBorofsky]

This is a powerful statement by the Yanomami themselves on this heated, important issue.

[waaponi]

eave the Yanomami in peace,they are my friends and are one of the KINDEST peoples ever !

[topologyrob]

Not according to Chagnon, the primary authority on these people.

[jda974]

he was the 'primary authority' among the Yanomami alright, that's why he manipulated them and invented about their fierness. See Barbosa, Rabben, Darcy Ribeiro, Jan Rocha, Early and F. Peters... read about their initial kindness face to the garimpeiros in Rorarima, on the eighties gold rush... see how friendly they were to those who were there to kill them. or to get any other profit, like Chagnon did with his famous book. They must have the blood back because it was stollen from them!

[masterofmetacognitio]

Are they kidding? Back in the days of Chagnon, the Yanomamo practiced infanticide and regularly beat every single woman in their tribe (and often stabbed them or lopped off their ears). I understand about culture shock and the right of an indigenous tribe to exist, but the point is that they didn't reject it when the data was collected. If there's good research in the samples, then don't give it up to their superstitions.

[RobBorofsky]

I am a little puzzled by your comment. It is (1) dramatically overstated in terms of agreed upon facts regarding the Yanomami and (2) I believe based on a shallow reading of Chagnon's own work. Do you realize that the Yanomami were clearly misled when the blood was collected? They were never given medical results that would help them fight the diseases they were facing as was clearly promised. You might look at YANOMAMI: THE FIERCE CONTROVERSY AND WHAT WE CAN LEARN FROM IT.

[LiveLaughLove8489]

@RobBorofsky So, the blood was basically stolen? taken with a promise that was never intended to be kept? Do you have any more info on this? i have a project for this.