1983 World Invite (Olympic Test Event) Retton vs Durham

[charimander]

Can anyone please repost this competition?

[metsdudenj]

I wish this hole competition will be reposed. It was on like a year ago

[metsdudenj]

Diane would have won LA AA gold, team gold, and probably an individual bronze on bars and floor

[metsdudenj]

Had a healthy Durham gone to LA, I am sure the US would have won team gold. She would have also probably won the all around and several other individual medals as well

[metsdudenj]

Please the Eastern Europeans always cheated, it was about time the US had the upper hand, and with out atthletes, we proved at LA we did have it

[theSTAR70]

hello !!! it wasn't me that made that post, someone logged in after me after using the public library's comp, so please disregard ...

[kradunzel]

LOL..."we proved it"...?

Did you see what happened at Olomouc 84 and 85 Worlds? If you did, you would never say something as ridiculous as "we proved at LA we did have it..."

[metsdudenj]

The 84 team with Dianne would have very much won a team medal with the Eastern Bloc countries attending. I dont know why you all think the US had such an inferior team versus the Eastern Europeans. They didnt. With fair judging, they were actually a lot closer than you think. And we showed we were very much competitive with the Romanians and we totally buried the Chinese at LA. At the 85 worlds, the US team sent their weakest team ever and still placed sixth.

[kradunzel]

You have clearly never watched 83 Worlds, 85 Worlds or Olomouc.

Those results speak for themselves. Light years ahead of anything seen in LA.

It's neat that the US did well at the 84 Olympics, but to suggest they would medal at a fully attended Olympics at that time is just plain unrealistic.

-Beating the Chinese in LA was not a great accomplishment at the time.

-Sixth place is pretty much LAST PLACE at World Championships! LOL...Who did they beat?

[metsdudenj]

I saw all of those routines, and all of those competitions. The Soviets in 85 were much stronger than the 84 team they would have fielded. They would have won silver or team bronze with Durham on the team. The could have easily beaten the GDR and Rumania with a healthy Durham on the team, without her, they would have beaten the East Germans for the bronze especially with the homecourt advantage. All I was saying about the 85 team was that they were horrible and they still beat China there.

[metsdudenj]

@kradunzel The judging at Olumouc was ridiculous. Huge breaks were still getting 9.9s. You state that the Eastern Bloc would have built up a huge lead with compulsories, but I disagree. The US team often experienced unfair judging in those early rounds. Why all of a sudden did they outscore GDR, BUL, CZE and CHN at 88 in compulsories? Ill tell you why. The judging wasnt dominated by Eastern Bloc countries and was finally fair.

[kradunzel]

@metsdudenj

"Huge breaks were still getting 9.9s"

Like Retton's hand on the floor on her second pass?

"Why all of a sudden did they outscore GDR, BUL, CZE..."

The GDR team outscored the US by almost a point in the compulsory round.

Could it be that the US improved since 84? Romania beat them by two points and the USSR beat them by THREE POINTS. You don't see a difference in the gymnastics during the compulsory round?

[metsdudenj]

@kradunzel The US had the unfair and biased deduction so they were basically only .5 behind the GDR. They would have won the bronze medal over the GDR. The US was clearly the third best team in the 88 Olympics and would have been the bronze team medalist in a fully attended 84 olympics. The GDR would have been fourth. BUL would have been fifth. The US team was miles better than the 83 world team.

[kradunzel]

@metsdudenj

First you said that the US outscored the GDR in 88 compulsories when actually, they were behind, and now you are making imaginary adjustments for your own perceived "unfair and biased deduction"?

I guess living in your own imaginary world works for you...

[metsdudenj]

@kradunzel The East Germans were overscored in Compulsories and you know it. Their vault scores were ridiculous high as were their beam scores. Ill give them bars, they were good there. The US was underscored on vault and bars, and you know that also. SO the US in reality did outscore them, but the Eastern Bloc judges were the ones who made sure the traditional guard kept the first three positions

[metsdudenj]

@kradunzel The East Germans were overscored in Compulsories and you know it. Their vault scores were ridiculous high as were their beam scores. Ill give them bars, they were good there. The US was underscored on vault and bars, and you know that also. SO the US in reality did outscore them, but the Eastern Bloc judges were the ones who made sure the traditional guard kept the first three positions

[kradunzel]

@metsdudenj

"and you know it..."

It's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. It sounds a lot like sour grapes/water under the bridge. Hopefully you'll move beyond it some day.

To some degree, the complaints about the judging diminishes the actual advances the US made in the 90s. US gymnastics in the 90s was light years ahead of US gymnastics in the 80s...the same way the Soviets were light years ahead of everyone in the 80s.

[metsdudenj]

@kradunzel Im not over the blatnat cheating that went on in Seoul. I had never seen such ridiculous judging in my life, except in the 1991 Pan Am games.

[kradunzel]

Again-not taking anything away from the US win in LA...

But the Soviets (MOST of the team from 85 Worlds), GDR (including Gnauck and Fahnrich) and Romania would have have been so far ahead after compulsories in 84 that the US (with or without Durham) could never have caught up. Those teams won due to depth which the US didn't have.

EVERYONE buried the Chinese since they all crashed on floor/vault at every meet, save the last 10 years.

Does "fair judging" refer to Retton's scores in LA?

[metsdudenj]

I maintain that with Durham on the team the US would have beaten Rumania at LA and would have placed ahead of them in a full attended Olympics. The US would have beaten GDR because Gnauck was their only star, and the rest, like Fahrich, were one event gymnasts. Even the Czechs were close to them in Olomouc.

The depth of the US team with a healthy Durham would invclude three gymnasts with world championships medals, and two of the hottest gymnasts at the time, Retton and Durham. Thats depth

[kradunzel]

LOL...besides Chunichi, at which international competitions did Retton and Durham ever directly compete with the best Eastern Europeans?

Retton/Durham=hot...for the US

Compulsories and the Team competition format of the time would have knocked the US out.

[metsdudenj]

Both missed worlds because of injuries, but the US still did a good job with Johnson and McNamara. I dont know why you dont think that those two plus Talavera wouldnt have secored strong scores for the US. And btw, our team was deep for 84. Only Bileck was a liability and had no business being on the team. With Durham on the team, the US six would have been deeper than Buylgaria, China, East Germany, Czechoslovakia and maybe even Rumania. A team bronze would have been a shoo in

[balletgod]

i agree mary lou was gr8 but so was dianne

[gymflip]

what the hell happened to Julianne McNamara at this meet? Was she with Bela at the time...I don't think so.

[dmann3g]

Marylou even said Diane was the best of their time.

[eridees]

Diane is one of the most underrated athletes of all time... I loved watching her as a young girl.

[dannyandgabby]

i know Ms. Diane personally!!!! i go to her gym!!

[metsdudenj]

does bela wear a hair piece?

[ft192]

Please show more of Diane Durham!!!!

[kradunzel]

yup...few doubt the outcome had Durham been healthy

[tbc2006]

after all this time i FINALLY get to see diana durham compete!wow she would have WON the 1984 olympics if it wernt for the injury!