The patient, polite, naive, innocent believer has several things to answer for: he tells lies to children that they are born evil; he tells them that they can only get out of that by loving a dead man, who will repay the slightest infringement (including doubt and failure to worship him) with eternal torture.
But also, he gives credence, by his belief in the cult, to those who believe only what he does, but carry a bomb.
It's not always willful ignorance. You have no idea what it's like to be indoctrinated from birth. I was not willfully ignorant, I was indoctrinated. It used to be unthinkable for me to imagine that there was no god. You're being a fucking douche.
Yes, I did get out of religion and I have been an atheist for two years. How awesome that you never believed it, good for you. But I think (fellow atheists) like you are being douchey when you make comments like, "religion is the club of the willfully ignorant". Same type of atheists that say all religious people are idiots because it makes them feel superior. I think it shows a lack of understanding on your part.
@mfentruck Fair enough; I see you better now. I do have a lack of understanding about the massive appeal of the religions.
I don't think it's fair to class me with those who want to make religios feel inferior - the opposite would be true: it's my aim to make them see that if you take responsibility for yourself, then it can be liberating. If you're not waiting for a mythical afterlife, it can release you into the value of this one.
I also want people to 'hit' my vids - with love or hate!
Well I actually agree with you in that now that I am an atheist, I no longer see the appeal to religion. Being an atheist is nothing like I expected it to be. I expected it to be hopeless, depressing, pathetic but it's not at all and I feel a sort of relief. Giving up my belief in the afterlife was really scary at first but now that fear is all gone.
I think the threat of hell & promise of heaven explains why many intelligent people remain theists.
@mfentruck Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
It makes perfect sense. - not mine - and I will improve on it - but it ridicules just like christians ridicule the other "faiths".
I'll make this really easy for you as far as evangelizing us. You MUST bypass our mental force field. See, Christians have a force field called the Bible, and the only way to get one to denounce their faith is to get them to see the contradictions in it(that's is how I denounced my faith). If you can bypass an Atheists MIND, then you can manipulate our emotions. That is how you evangelize an Atheist. I am not being sarcastic, I'm just letting you know what you are up against.
Just because a Christian really believes in Heaven and Hell, and just because they are sincere, is not going to convince one of us of the validity of the Bible. I will respect a Christian(even their views-although I have no use for the religion but their views simply because they are their views and they showed respect to me), but that is still not going to convince an Atheist.
This man completely misunderstood Penn's point. Penn wasn't emotionally toched by the "word of God", he was toched by the man's sincerity and compassion.
Penn wasn't interested in your God, he was interested in an act of human kindness.
This man completely misunderstood Penn's point. Penn wasn't emotionally toched by the "word of God", he was toched by the man's sincerity and compassion.
Penn wasn't interested in your God, he was interested in an act of human kindness.
The man in this clip seems very nice and decent, but let's just be clear on what Penn was saying. Whether it's Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, Janism, Hinduism, Rastafarianism, "Alien Abductee-ism," etc., if someone ACTUALLY thinks another person is in danger THEY SHOULD INTERVENE. That means if I think a killer bunny rabbit is waiting outside your door to eat you, I should help you stay clear of it. It does NOT mean that my concern is valid in the least bit.
Penn is still not a believer but simply stating Christian logic. Aren't you all supposed to "spread the word of God" anyway? Although you may be very nice and "sincere" but Atheists are still not going to believe in your "Invisble all seeing God" nonsense
Uhm, Penn Jillette has read the Bible and has stated that it, in fact made him an Atheist.
The utter hubris of Evangelical Christians who dare think people are atheists because the HAVEN'T read the Bible? Most people who HAVEN'T read the Bible are Christians.
And if you have, and are still Xtian, I cannot imagine how deluded you must be to think it is a book or morals or is the product of a loving god entity.
@johnycannuk Amen, brother. I was a lifelong Christian who'd only read parts of the Bible. That's how I was able to believe it's the word of God. It wasn't until I started reading it all the way through that I saw how ridiculous it is. Reading and studying the Bible is why I'm an atheist, and I have the Bible to thank for that.
@SubconsciousGatherer Yes, this is a ploy to get christians to actually own a bible, and read it. If you include the old testament, it is the quickest way to turn someone atheist :-)
Conversely, how much of a sick, twisted human do you have to be to worship a god who would torture people for eternity for something as simple as a lie?
Penn Gillette didn't say, "it's working". He was merely stating how impressed he was by how nice this guy was who gave him a bible. I'm an atheist too, and yes I also found that a nice gesture, but that doesn't mean I'm turning into a believer. I even have 4 to 5 bibles at home, and I do study them, but I will die an atheist.
Personally, I wouldn't want anyone to evangelize to me. It really doesn't matter how much someone believes in their delusion, I don't buy it. If anything, I feel abject pity for them, since they apparently have so totally given up on their own lives that they feel the need to throw themselves at their last hope.
Please, believers of myth, stop wishing for something that will never happen, and just get on with your lives. There's a beautiful world out there.
@Impalamark64 How do you know for sure that heaven and Jesus are just myth? Really, how do you know 100% that there is no God? Because the way I see it, for you to say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that "there is no God" you would have to know everything there is to know in this universe to make such an absolute statement and say it as fact. I think we can both agree that there's no one in this world that knows EVERYTHING. And if there is such a person--it's God. What do you think?
@emils122 You have the same misconceptions about non-belief as almost all religious people have. I never said "there is no god" since no one really knows. The concept of heaven is the same, and Jesus is very likely a myth, since he's not documented in any way outside of the bible. The whole thing is extremely unlikely and is inherently unknowable, given current scientific knowledge.
There are many things occurring in the universe we can't explain, but it's a safe bet it doesn't involve religion.
@emils122 Even if there was only a 1% chance that current theology was accurate, that would be a 99% chance it was wrong. In recorded history, many religions have come and gone. The current wave is relatively new, the Egyptians believed their myths for 5000 years. Every culture clings desperately to the hope that there's more out there. It's fine to muse over it, but why treat it as if it's true, given no positive proof?
Theologists have the burden of proof, atheists aren't making any claims.
@Impalamark64 hmm, forgive me if I misunderstood you. I thought when you call something a "myth" you are saying that it's not real. But that is in fact the definition of an athiest: someone who denies the existence of God, which is an absolute statement. Maybe a more accurate term to use would be "agnostic"? As for the rise and fall of other religions, Christianity is quite different wherein the first 11 disciples of the faith gave up EVERYTHING, even their lives, for the sake of the Gospel.
@Impalamark64 Think about this: at the time, Jesus was dead and buried. The disciples were distraught. They could have gone on with their normal lives and forget the last 3 years they spent with Jesus. One of them, Peter did. He tried to go back to fishing. Yet something happened where they were all encouraged and continued in the faith. Many of them to the point of death, like Peter. What could they have experienced to motivate that passion? I say seeing Jesus after He rose from the dead.
@Impalamark64 Also, the modern Christian church is a miracle in itself, considering the persecution that it has sustained these 2000 years. Only a faith founded in truth can withstand the torture and torment Christians have endured--and still do around the world. Also, there are writings of Jesus outside of the Bible. Josephus Flaviius, a Jewish historian in the 1st Century, wrote about Jesus Christ.
@emils122 The entry in Josephus was a later interpolation (read: fraud and lie) added by later church fathers (Oigien) to bolster their case against the pagans. The second entry referes to a different Jesus. So no, there are no extra-biblical references to Jesus.
As for persecution yes, it must have been horrible to suffer through the Crusades, the Inquisition, the medieval progorms, the witch burnings, the wars in the Reformation period, the Holocaust ...oh, wait ...never mind...
@Impalamark64 My encouragement to you is this: if you don't know for sure, do your own homework. Dont go by what people have said, which I don't know if you are, but IF you are please don't hang such a weighty decision on "hearsay". instead, look it up, seek truth for yourself and you'll find it. A good place to start is The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, a lawyer and reporter for the Chicago Times and former atheist who set out to disproof Christianity--only to receive it as Truth. God bless.
@Impalamark64 Understood. I apologize for overstepping my boundaries--and for any other Christian in the past who may have offended you in any way. Take care.
@emils122 Lee Strobel is a charlatan and a liar and his book has been debunked as ahistoric nonsense and run of the mill apologetics disguised as journalism - in short, he's lying.
May I recommend the books of Bard D Ehrman so that you can actually understand the history and historicity of the Bible...t
I believe Penn also wants Christians to be FULLY Christian! He says, 'If you're gonna be a nut, then be a nut!! Don't let science and reason stand in your way.' To many religious people trying to water down the religion, making it an easy pill to swallow, when the Bible is anything but that. So, I yes! Stand on the street corner yelling at people that they're on their way to hell! Proclaim what you believe is the truth. Let people then decide on their own.
@mrstrings2006 I agree. But no where in the Bible do I see Jesus standing on a street corner yelling at people. He always acted with compassion and love toward all sinners. It's truth with Love that wins people over to Christ. The only time Jesus acted out in righteous anger was addressing the Pharisees--the religious right at that time. It's easy to call out sinners and tell them they're going to Hell. But it takes Love to serve the sinner and be Christ-like to them. Then tell them the Truth.
You'll earn a lot more respect if you don't act crazy...but as has been said, Penn was just commenting on the logical implications of Christian doctrine. I would be very much surprised if he was at all pushed towards religion by that meeting.
Do you REALLY think that Gillette had never come across a Bible before? They're as common as dirt -- and much less useful.
I have 2 lying around the house -- the KJV and the NRS. They were absolutely instrumental in my becoming an atheist. Reminds me, I should dust my bookshelves one of these days.
It's not "working". Penn makes a good comment about Xians being consistent with their beliefs, and I too don't begrudge believers who wish to save my soul, it the only decent thing for them, given their beliefs. However all the decent intentions in the world can't make the non-factual factual.
The patient, polite, naive, innocent believer has several things to answer for: he tells lies to children that they are born evil; he tells them that they can only get out of that by loving a dead man, who will repay the slightest infringement (including doubt and failure to worship him) with eternal torture.
But also, he gives credence, by his belief in the cult, to those who believe only what he does, but carry a bomb.
Religion is the club of the wilfully ignorant.
Shame on you all.
StrumstickJoe 7 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
It's not always willful ignorance. You have no idea what it's like to be indoctrinated from birth. I was not willfully ignorant, I was indoctrinated. It used to be unthinkable for me to imagine that there was no god. You're being a fucking douche.
mfentruck 6 months ago
@mfentruck So do I understand that you've got out of religion?
If so I don't understand why you swore at me.
I have no fight with you whether you're a believer, an ex-believer, or whatever.
I was indoctrinated, but never believed it; they scared me for a little while, but I was young.
The young and vulnerable are their prime targets. They ought to be ashamed of themselves.
I looked up douche, and I'm not; the adjective was gratuitous; added nothing to the meaning.
Peace on earth.
StrumstickJoe 6 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Yes, I did get out of religion and I have been an atheist for two years. How awesome that you never believed it, good for you. But I think (fellow atheists) like you are being douchey when you make comments like, "religion is the club of the willfully ignorant". Same type of atheists that say all religious people are idiots because it makes them feel superior. I think it shows a lack of understanding on your part.
mfentruck 6 months ago
@mfentruck Fair enough; I see you better now. I do have a lack of understanding about the massive appeal of the religions.
I don't think it's fair to class me with those who want to make religios feel inferior - the opposite would be true: it's my aim to make them see that if you take responsibility for yourself, then it can be liberating. If you're not waiting for a mythical afterlife, it can release you into the value of this one.
I also want people to 'hit' my vids - with love or hate!
StrumstickJoe 6 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Well I actually agree with you in that now that I am an atheist, I no longer see the appeal to religion. Being an atheist is nothing like I expected it to be. I expected it to be hopeless, depressing, pathetic but it's not at all and I feel a sort of relief. Giving up my belief in the afterlife was really scary at first but now that fear is all gone.
I think the threat of hell & promise of heaven explains why many intelligent people remain theists.
mfentruck 5 months ago
@mfentruck Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
It makes perfect sense. - not mine - and I will improve on it - but it ridicules just like christians ridicule the other "faiths".
;-)
StrumstickJoe 5 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
lol, I've read that before, but it's so weird when you're in a religion, it just doesn't seem ridiculous, it seems normal.
mfentruck 5 months ago
@mfentruck To clarify - the first paragraph is not my original.
PS
My videos are my legacy to the world, give them a "hit"
StrumstickJoe 5 months ago
@StrumstickJoe
Yes I like your videos :-)
mfentruck 5 months ago
I'll make this really easy for you as far as evangelizing us. You MUST bypass our mental force field. See, Christians have a force field called the Bible, and the only way to get one to denounce their faith is to get them to see the contradictions in it(that's is how I denounced my faith). If you can bypass an Atheists MIND, then you can manipulate our emotions. That is how you evangelize an Atheist. I am not being sarcastic, I'm just letting you know what you are up against.
FriendofDaishonin 7 months ago
Just because a Christian really believes in Heaven and Hell, and just because they are sincere, is not going to convince one of us of the validity of the Bible. I will respect a Christian(even their views-although I have no use for the religion but their views simply because they are their views and they showed respect to me), but that is still not going to convince an Atheist.
FriendofDaishonin 7 months ago
Pastor Bob didnt say Penn was touched Gods word, listen to it again he said he was touched by the man that gave it to him
NICKblindpass 1 year ago
This man completely misunderstood Penn's point. Penn wasn't emotionally toched by the "word of God", he was toched by the man's sincerity and compassion.
Penn wasn't interested in your God, he was interested in an act of human kindness.
RUBENSolol 1 year ago
This man completely misunderstood Penn's point. Penn wasn't emotionally toched by the "word of God", he was toched by the man's sincerity and compassion.
Penn wasn't interested in your God, he was interested in an act of human kindness.
RUBENSolol 1 year ago
The man in this clip seems very nice and decent, but let's just be clear on what Penn was saying. Whether it's Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, Janism, Hinduism, Rastafarianism, "Alien Abductee-ism," etc., if someone ACTUALLY thinks another person is in danger THEY SHOULD INTERVENE. That means if I think a killer bunny rabbit is waiting outside your door to eat you, I should help you stay clear of it. It does NOT mean that my concern is valid in the least bit.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
Penn is still not a believer but simply stating Christian logic. Aren't you all supposed to "spread the word of God" anyway? Although you may be very nice and "sincere" but Atheists are still not going to believe in your "Invisble all seeing God" nonsense
clay180 1 year ago
Uhm, Penn Jillette has read the Bible and has stated that it, in fact made him an Atheist.
The utter hubris of Evangelical Christians who dare think people are atheists because the HAVEN'T read the Bible? Most people who HAVEN'T read the Bible are Christians.
And if you have, and are still Xtian, I cannot imagine how deluded you must be to think it is a book or morals or is the product of a loving god entity.
johnycannuk 1 year ago
@johnycannuk Amen, brother. I was a lifelong Christian who'd only read parts of the Bible. That's how I was able to believe it's the word of God. It wasn't until I started reading it all the way through that I saw how ridiculous it is. Reading and studying the Bible is why I'm an atheist, and I have the Bible to thank for that.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer Yes, this is a ploy to get christians to actually own a bible, and read it. If you include the old testament, it is the quickest way to turn someone atheist :-)
silverspirit2001 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is no GOD.
doctorbuckner 1 year ago
This avowed atheist was bought up a christian. And has posted a video stating the reasons WHY he became an atheist.
Crazydog7 1 year ago
Just be aware that he is an atheist and will discuss that very book with you.
mikedamat 1 year ago
EEECCCHHH, just .....keep your talking snakes and your fantasies....AWAY from me!
K
klute007 1 year ago
Conversely, how much of a sick, twisted human do you have to be to worship a god who would torture people for eternity for something as simple as a lie?
CuntTornado 1 year ago
Penn Gillette didn't say, "it's working". He was merely stating how impressed he was by how nice this guy was who gave him a bible. I'm an atheist too, and yes I also found that a nice gesture, but that doesn't mean I'm turning into a believer. I even have 4 to 5 bibles at home, and I do study them, but I will die an atheist.
AgressorNation 1 year ago
Penn was probably just being polite.
Personally, I wouldn't want anyone to evangelize to me. It really doesn't matter how much someone believes in their delusion, I don't buy it. If anything, I feel abject pity for them, since they apparently have so totally given up on their own lives that they feel the need to throw themselves at their last hope.
Please, believers of myth, stop wishing for something that will never happen, and just get on with your lives. There's a beautiful world out there.
Impalamark64 1 year ago
@Impalamark64 How do you know for sure that heaven and Jesus are just myth? Really, how do you know 100% that there is no God? Because the way I see it, for you to say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that "there is no God" you would have to know everything there is to know in this universe to make such an absolute statement and say it as fact. I think we can both agree that there's no one in this world that knows EVERYTHING. And if there is such a person--it's God. What do you think?
emils122 1 year ago
@emils122 You have the same misconceptions about non-belief as almost all religious people have. I never said "there is no god" since no one really knows. The concept of heaven is the same, and Jesus is very likely a myth, since he's not documented in any way outside of the bible. The whole thing is extremely unlikely and is inherently unknowable, given current scientific knowledge.
There are many things occurring in the universe we can't explain, but it's a safe bet it doesn't involve religion.
Impalamark64 1 year ago
@emils122 Even if there was only a 1% chance that current theology was accurate, that would be a 99% chance it was wrong. In recorded history, many religions have come and gone. The current wave is relatively new, the Egyptians believed their myths for 5000 years. Every culture clings desperately to the hope that there's more out there. It's fine to muse over it, but why treat it as if it's true, given no positive proof?
Theologists have the burden of proof, atheists aren't making any claims.
Impalamark64 1 year ago
@Impalamark64 hmm, forgive me if I misunderstood you. I thought when you call something a "myth" you are saying that it's not real. But that is in fact the definition of an athiest: someone who denies the existence of God, which is an absolute statement. Maybe a more accurate term to use would be "agnostic"? As for the rise and fall of other religions, Christianity is quite different wherein the first 11 disciples of the faith gave up EVERYTHING, even their lives, for the sake of the Gospel.
emils122 1 year ago
@Impalamark64 Think about this: at the time, Jesus was dead and buried. The disciples were distraught. They could have gone on with their normal lives and forget the last 3 years they spent with Jesus. One of them, Peter did. He tried to go back to fishing. Yet something happened where they were all encouraged and continued in the faith. Many of them to the point of death, like Peter. What could they have experienced to motivate that passion? I say seeing Jesus after He rose from the dead.
emils122 1 year ago
@Impalamark64 Also, the modern Christian church is a miracle in itself, considering the persecution that it has sustained these 2000 years. Only a faith founded in truth can withstand the torture and torment Christians have endured--and still do around the world. Also, there are writings of Jesus outside of the Bible. Josephus Flaviius, a Jewish historian in the 1st Century, wrote about Jesus Christ.
emils122 1 year ago
@emils122 The entry in Josephus was a later interpolation (read: fraud and lie) added by later church fathers (Oigien) to bolster their case against the pagans. The second entry referes to a different Jesus. So no, there are no extra-biblical references to Jesus.
As for persecution yes, it must have been horrible to suffer through the Crusades, the Inquisition, the medieval progorms, the witch burnings, the wars in the Reformation period, the Holocaust ...oh, wait ...never mind...
johnycannuk 1 year ago
@Impalamark64 My encouragement to you is this: if you don't know for sure, do your own homework. Dont go by what people have said, which I don't know if you are, but IF you are please don't hang such a weighty decision on "hearsay". instead, look it up, seek truth for yourself and you'll find it. A good place to start is The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, a lawyer and reporter for the Chicago Times and former atheist who set out to disproof Christianity--only to receive it as Truth. God bless.
emils122 1 year ago
@emils122 First of all, the comments section is reserved for the video itself. This isn't a chat room, even though people treat it as one.
We actually have a chance to escape the shackles of religion. Repeating the same old lines doesn't make the superstitious delusions any more real.
Pat Condell has the right ideas, you need to watch his videos. He speaks for me on this.
Lastly, I clearly said that I didn't want anyone to evangelize to me. I've had a lifetime of this, and now it's getting old.
Impalamark64 1 year ago
@Impalamark64 Understood. I apologize for overstepping my boundaries--and for any other Christian in the past who may have offended you in any way. Take care.
emils122 1 year ago
@emils122 Lee Strobel is a charlatan and a liar and his book has been debunked as ahistoric nonsense and run of the mill apologetics disguised as journalism - in short, he's lying.
May I recommend the books of Bard D Ehrman so that you can actually understand the history and historicity of the Bible...t
johnycannuk 1 year ago
I believe Penn also wants Christians to be FULLY Christian! He says, 'If you're gonna be a nut, then be a nut!! Don't let science and reason stand in your way.' To many religious people trying to water down the religion, making it an easy pill to swallow, when the Bible is anything but that. So, I yes! Stand on the street corner yelling at people that they're on their way to hell! Proclaim what you believe is the truth. Let people then decide on their own.
mrstrings2006 2 years ago
@mrstrings2006 I agree. But no where in the Bible do I see Jesus standing on a street corner yelling at people. He always acted with compassion and love toward all sinners. It's truth with Love that wins people over to Christ. The only time Jesus acted out in righteous anger was addressing the Pharisees--the religious right at that time. It's easy to call out sinners and tell them they're going to Hell. But it takes Love to serve the sinner and be Christ-like to them. Then tell them the Truth.
emils122 1 year ago
You'll earn a lot more respect if you don't act crazy...but as has been said, Penn was just commenting on the logical implications of Christian doctrine. I would be very much surprised if he was at all pushed towards religion by that meeting.
Telamnar 2 years ago
Yet another failed YouTube evangelist.
Do you REALLY think that Gillette had never come across a Bible before? They're as common as dirt -- and much less useful.
I have 2 lying around the house -- the KJV and the NRS. They were absolutely instrumental in my becoming an atheist. Reminds me, I should dust my bookshelves one of these days.
PraiseShemp 2 years ago
It's not "working". Penn makes a good comment about Xians being consistent with their beliefs, and I too don't begrudge believers who wish to save my soul, it the only decent thing for them, given their beliefs. However all the decent intentions in the world can't make the non-factual factual.
Cafeeine 2 years ago
Well said.
VeritasLiber 2 years ago
So that guy didn't need his Bible anymore?
BaileysBeads 2 years ago