Starting a Propane Car in Cold Weather

[TheGreatBunghole16]

This video almost shows its worthy, and convinces me to find out more about LPG on my truck :) I have plenty of room for a tank or two in the back under the canopy :)

[McJim15]

I am 17 years old and I don't have a lot of know how with this whole propane situation, but I was wondering roughly how long would it take to undo one of those conversions. I have a 1995 ford ranger XLT extended cab and it runs on propane, my dad owned it before me but it was already put in. I want to become more mechanically incline so I want to do it myself, but as a fellow owner of a vehicle that runs on propane I was hoping to get your opinion on my situation, thanks for your time.

[rasoenterprises]

@McJim15 Generally, propane conversions are done to save money on fuel. Presumably, if your dad installed it, he also had a readily available supply of low cost propane. Although gasoline prices have come down lately, I think it would be worthwhile continue using propane, especially since someone else has already spent the money to convert the truck. You can get a much better price on propane if you lock-in a price with a propane supplier when the market is low (ie, during the summer).

[danielthechskid]

The reason for the -40° limit is that propane's boiling point at atmospheric pressure is -42°c/-44°f.

Below that temperature the propane tank actually has less than atmospheric pressure in it, AKA a slight vacuum and opening the tank valve would actually draw air into the tank.

[mitteey]

how much more efficent is propane than gas?

[rasoenterprises]

@mitteey Although propane has a higher energy content (BTU/lb) than gasoline, it has a lower density (lb/gallon). Because of its lower density, a car running on propane will have a higher fuel consumption than one running on gasoline. When the fuel price is factored into consumption, the driving cost ($/mile), propane can be significantly cheaper to use. The savings depend on the difference in price between gasoline and propane.

[rasoenterprises]

@screeminjimmy027 There are 0W-30 and 5W-30 engine oils that flow well in extreme cold weather. Block heaters are also a good idea and are very common in frigid parts of Canada.

[threetwentynine]

my old truck was on propane and it started in -38 weather no problem. check out my video. i was just messin around with the truck i had got it bout 2 days before i took the video it was taken on December 23rd 2008 and it was -38 up in here in Prince George British Columbia

[111polor]

oops sorry just saw your other reply

Thnks

[111polor]

Any thought on the need to heat the propane tanks, or has any one you heard of use it in these type temps? the Guy we are buying the cars from said he thinks it will frost up before it goes in the carb, but he has not run them in the winter to know for sure. BTW I think they are 1975 or 1976 Town and Country wagons. I think they have 440's in them but will know more when we go look at them closer tomorrow night.

[111polor]

They say they cant pump it after -40, however i worked in a lumber yard that had propane forklifts and we pumped our own propane for them at -50. We just put less in knowing it would expand when we parked them indoors at night. So it does not make since to me. I have wondered if it might be that they might not be able to gage the amount of sale as closely?

[rasoenterprises]

I would think that it would be easier to pump below -40°F. Barbecue tanks are filled by weight so I wouldn't expect they would lose or gain sales with temperature changes. The spit valve on a vehicle or lift truck tank should still work perfectly and liquid expansion is the reason propane tanks only filled to 80% capacity.

[111polor]

Also on a side note the two places here in town that sell propane will not pump and sell propane after -40. That can be a month or two some times. So buying propane could be a problem and a second vehicle could be needed.

[rasoenterprises]

That's interesting. Have those propane retailers given you a reason for not selling propane below -40°F?

[111polor]

We are looking into buying a old (70's) Chrysler wagon that was a taxi. It has a propane system on it. But we live in the interior of Alaska. We see temps of -70F. I was thinking a electric heater would work when it is plugged in at night with the block heater and battery heater. But what about long drives from Fairbanks to Anchorage? Will the propane liquify from the cold trip (6-8 hrs of driving time)? If so is there a on board electric heater we can run from the cars DC that could be used?

[rasoenterprises]

Ambient temperatures would definitely be a problem with operation below -40°F. To operate a propane vehicle in these temperatures, you would have to provide some heat to the tank to raise the pressure inside enough to get propane to flow to the engine. The solution is is bit involved to answer here and I would suggest that you discuss this on the FuelsForum.

[ub2bn]

this is encouraging!!! i'm juat a few hours west of you, and was concerned my (factory) propane powered 350 chev mini bus may not want to start in cold weather. i've been pricing coolant heaters :(. thanxx for posting this.

oh, btw, why only open the throttle a little on starting? (i was told to floor it 'til it starts), or is it different for cold starting???

thanxx!

[rasoenterprises]

Too much throttle can cause an intake manifold backfire during cranking. If you have an Impco system on your minibus and have cold-start problems, there are start-assist devices that can help. Visit my Alternative Fuels Forum if you need help.

[ub2bn]

registered at forum (as jrnymn), but no reply yet

[RobSS1113]

say hello to santa claus for me plz !

[ExoSkuII]

Hey i was looking into a conversion kit for my 66 ford galaxie But i was courious if i could convert a Carbureated car into a hybrid propane Plus i heard it will help your car engine last hella longer Thanks

[SpiritsoftheWolf]

what you see, this car is carureated, so you can get a propane conversion for your ford galaxie, i converted one of my lawn mower into propane, and it runs better, has more power, extends engine life, and extends oil life between oil changes, my van has 2 tanks on it, PETROL and CNG

(Compressed Natural Gas) you can get a conversion kit for just about any type or year of your car, just google it, propane conversion kit, hope this helps you out :)

[ExoSkuII]

Thanks Exo.

[V8Jagnut]

just like my jag. the only problem with cold weather is that the gas converter might freeze before the engine worms up.

[rasoenterprises]

Your converter will only freeze if it is undersized or if it is not getting enough water flow. Normally, letting the engine idle while you clear the snow off your car is plenty of warm-up.

[V8Jagnut]

yep. it dose not get tha cold hear so i have no problems.its more like 45'c hear today.

[jackmitchell123]

- 18 C

Must be in Canada!

[sk8erboy310]

lmfao probly its FREEZING up here

[Owashu]

Wow

I thought this was going to be a video of a guy trying to start his car for 5 min. It starts better than a gas car :)

[librophile]

Our best bet for the future is not GM or Ford but Tesla Motors from California with their fully electric cars that take you up to 250 miles on a single charge. Afterward a 3 hours charge regenerate the batteries fully. If a very small propane motor could be added to solely recharge the batteries as you drive, I guess you could drive their cars indefinitely.

Congress should invest OUR money with the Tesla Corp & forget about GM & Ford who had over 30 yrs to improve & did NOTHING!!

[dieselSumbitch]

wow no shit you turn the key??? WTF!! i have to crank mine. lol your video is so informative, it blows me away.

[CREDITS4CARBON]

For propane fuel injection for new cars, do a google and a yahoo search with my name like this "PROPANE,MARK SMYTH" I have written over 15 articles posted on many websites and have driven over 1 million miles on propane with commercial cars and trucks. Expect to pay about $5,000 for car munis your tax rebates of a few thousand in Canada or the USA.

[nmxguyison]

I'm thinking of converting my 1996 Jeep Cherokee over to CNG..

[devja71]

yeah my neighbor had an 85 grand prix 305 on propane and said it started great in the winter. another engine builder guy told me half the secret w/lpg is to get that compression up there. that's why diesel's love lpg. a lot of ppl where unhappy w/lpg in the 80's and switched back to gas-mainly cause 80's engines where low comp. he said to rebuild your V-8 hi-comp for lpg only and the power/mileage would be close to gas. he swore by it. i dunno but it made sense to me

[mp3deviant721]

I wouldn't think it would be much of a concern to start in cold weather. Since propane is a gas when it reaches the mixer, mixing with air won't be too much of a problem and cold weather starts will be a piece of cake.

[t680277]

i have a question do you get the same milage per gallon or leater with propane to gas thank-you

[rasoenterprises]

Propane has less energy per gallon than gasoline so your mileage would decrease. Typically, carbureted conversions get around 75-80% of the vehicle's gasoline economy. The only economic reason for converting is that you can find propane for 70% or less of the price of gasoline. Today, I'm buying propane for about $2.65/gallon while gasoline costs around $4.91. This means propane costs me about 54% of the price of gasoline. The price of propane can vary greatly from station to station.

[bamaslamma1003]

Where do you get the parts to do this kind of retrofit?

[rasoenterprises]

You can get these parts from your local converison shop. There are also a number of stores on the internet (like my e-store). The conversion must meet either NFPA 58 or CSA B149.5 and I do not recommend that you put fuel in the system unless it has been professionally inspected.

[kwacz]

how do you find a local conversion shop in your area

[kwacz]

also where do you find a local filling station

[s1o4s4]

any insight on finding footage of propane conversions?

[s1o4s4]

can someone direct mi in the ways of propane conversion in having a difficult time finding footage on it.

[kronso23]

I would like to convert my 2000 honda accord to either CNG or LPG, but I don't know where to start. How did you learn how to do yours?

[rasoenterprises]

I got started when I had my New Yorker converted when I finished school. I them took a conversion course at the local college and did lots of research afterwards. If you don't have any experience with these systems, you might want to get a local conversion shop to help you.

[texxwilson1]

I cant wait to convert my truck to propane

[driver2329]

Is this your first car?

[rasoenterprises]

No. My first car is a 1965 Barracuda, which is currently getting a disc brake upgrade.

[StrokedGT]

cool, im thinking of converting my 68 Dart over to propane for various reasons. i put a wilwood disc brake conversion on that car

[jokess1990]

My first car was a Ford escort station wagon.

[finalfantasyXyuna]

lol. mine was a 91 lincoln mark VII

[mikes47jeep]

what kind of mileage do you get??

[rasoenterprises]

On the highway, I get about 18 MPG (Imperial) or 15 MPG (US). With current local fuel prices, it costs me in propane the equivalent of a gasoline-powered car that gets about 35 MPG (Imperial) or 29 MPG (US).

[volvomantom]

Nice idle considering the weather too!

[SpiritsoftheWolf]

i got a van that runs on CNG ( Compressed Natural Gas ).... and never had any trouble starting it in the cold temperatures

[markjrobbins]

Mine runs much better on propane than petrol too. Not many people know that propane is 105-110 octane and burns slower than petrol, so if you build you engine with very high compression it won't pink and add a performance cam to get benefit of longer burn the engine will be more powerfull than on petrol!

[solveg18]

so why dosent trailers run on propane?

[Cjaiceman]

Because they have Diesel engines, and Diesel is more efficient than gas engines. If you were to build a new one with a propane engine I don't see a problem, but to convert Diesel to propane could be costly. You could mix the diesel and propane to get better mileage, but that requires significant investment, something most trucking companies won't do.

[markjrobbins]

I just converted mine to propane and have found I can also start it from cold. Its old school conversion with a mixer that sits ontop of the standard carb to supply propane - very simple. I removed the petrol tank, but we don't get -18 in UK and will have to wait until winter to find out if I need a petrol tank at all...

[nrp2oo9]

nice start up how do u convert them over anyways?

[rasoenterprises]

Go to the web site on my profile and scroll down until you see a link to Propane Conversion Applications.

[amirio2]

what's the point of this..I got a 81 parisienne and it starts just fine in any wheather. Ok the choke comes on but that's not a problem cause it goes to idle 3-5 minutes later. Either you cars have some problem or your just not taking care of it!!

[rasoenterprises]

Many people think that propane vehicles can't start in cold weather. The point of this video is to show that cold temperatures aren't an issue with propane. The only difference in starting is that the throttle needs to slightly open while cranking instead of pressed once to set the choke. As long as the battery has enough power for cranking, my car will start this easily down to -40°F.

[supraturboLBJ]

I would heat up the oil pan before cranking an engine at -40 first

[dodgese]

Awesome car, I had a '79 Pontiac Bonneville, the most reliable car I've ever owned and regretted to have sold.

[Jac2Mac]

Does this pontiac make a buzz sound when you start it up?

[rasoenterprises]

It doesn't make any unusual sounds.

[astralninja]

I am wanting to convert(myself)a chevy 350 motor to propane(switchable between gas and propane). Any help in parts(brands to get etc.)and costs would be greatly appreciated! I saw something on mother earth news but it seems very dated. So I skipped sending to that kit. I want to do this SOON as possible.

[rasoenterprises]

The propane conversion information on the MotherEarth site is a bit dated. I have links to more current information on the my web site: cars(dot)rasoenterprises(dot)c­om.

[tstilll]

How did you convert your car to propane? I have a 97 Mercury Mystique. Can you give me a url to a site that shows how to do it?

[rasoenterprises]

I don't think that I can add a URL to this comment. The Pontiac conversion is documented on my cars(dot)rasoenterprises(dot)c­om web site. Similarly, you can find fuel injection installation instructions by searching Technocarb SVIS.

[volvo09]

No Accel Pump. Nice start for that temp, just purrs away.

[rasoenterprises]

There is no accelerator pump on a propane carburetor. Too much throttle while cranking will cause a backfire.

[jjeremy350]

next time pump the gas pedal alot before you try to start the car