McMasters had a solid tank design on his side; crews, NCO's, and Officers he had exhaustively trained; plus and a supply system to keep it all running.
The Iraqi Army had not trained its troops for the type of warfare they going to fight, had not equipped or supplied them well, and deployed them according to an out of date doctrine.
This allowed McMasters to fight a lop-sided battle whose outcome had been decided MONTHS before the first round was fired.
this would make a great show. just m1 tanks runnibng stuff over/blow stuff up/ running though buildibngs. I would so pay for a 90 minute movie. just to see that
@dillon0331 Actually you are wrong... by huge margin.
T-72s Iraqis had were on par with M60A1, which in no case was a competing level in 1991. In 1990-1991 Russians had much more advanced versions of T-72 and even more advanced T-80s.
You can't even think that downgraded export version built on base model in 1973 is the same with version built in 1985. It is like saying that M1A2 in 2000 is the same with original M1 in 1980.
One of the guys in one of the tanks bumped his head while loading a round...so the Americans did have a wounded soldier. He took an aspirin and was declared to be ok. Every Iraqi soldier in this fight died. Let's call it a draw.
@HANDARAN1 first i know english is many peoples 2nd or 3rd language ..but first by making the comment "eveyrone knows" your saying that i am included..second the Iraqis got their asses destroyed in this fight..you seem to be the only one that thinks the americans lost...so that does not mean everyone...put the hookah down and stop smoking the opium
@Waltham1892 What do you mean by "they kept coming"? :) They were not going anywhere. They were in dug-in defensive positions. They were sitting there and waiting M1A1 to come, meanwhile M1A1 had a greater range of detection and greater fire range. Narrator is wrong. With such obsolete tactics Iraqis were the ones who had no chance. It doesn't matter if they were 1 Brigade or 10 Brigades. M1 crews would always shoot first before they deplete all of their ammo.
The Iraqi's were not always caught standing still (though they were most often caught that way).
We had several meeting engagements with them when our line of advance bisected their line of retreat.
They did fight, they didn't panic, but their leadership, training and equipment failed them.
As for shooting first, it’s not enough. You can shoot first and hit first but still not have the weight of fire to win. The Iraqi's could never get their numerical advantage to pay off for them.
@Waltham1892 You are absolutely true in everything in this comment. In my previous comment I was talking solely about Battle of 73 Easting.
You are true about "weight of fire" and Iraqis were behind in this area too. Their old sabots and HEAT rounds from 70s couldn't pierce frontal M1A1 armor. Meanwhile, Russians had rounds in 1991, which were able to penetrate M1A1.
Russian APDS will penetrate American armor, however, the question is at what range.
I'm not going to quote figures, but by the time a tank firing the best Russian APDS through a 2A46 reaches its effective range, it has been within the effective range of the M256 and its M829A3 ammo for a very long time.
This allows the M256 to engage through a much larger kill box than a tank armed with a 2A46.
Add to this the crew survivability issues with Russian tanks, and you've got a problem.
@Waltham1892 I would prefer to stick to 1991 and not in general discussion about the most modern sabots from the most modern guns today. Cause in latter case difference in effective fire range is not so much as it was in Iraq in 91. Plus that from 80s all Soviet tanks had ATGM with 5km range, which M1 can only dream yet.
During the Gulf War 1, my tank was struck by some kind of large ATGM. It destroyed a duffle bag attached to the front left of the turret and one of the smoke grenade dischargers, and that was about it.
In Gulf War II, there was an incident where a Hellfire was fired at a disabled M-1A1 to keep it from being captured, and it failed to destroy the tank.
If you are going to fight a M-1, and you want a hard kill, you are going to have to use a KE round.
Sorry, but you have overstated the ability of Russian ammo to penetrate the by a factor of at least two.
In the first Gulf War, the Russian made APDS ammo failed to penetrate at ranges under 400 meters.
Its hard to believe that the Iraqi's Russian ammo was defective and they didn't know it, or that the Russian ammo in Russian hands was so superior but they never gave it to their allies.
As an former Armor Officer, its does not jibe with my experiences.
Iraqis in 1991 had obsolete older rounds from 60s and 70s, which were unable to penetrate M1A1.
Russians, however, in 1991 had new rounds and of course they were more powerful than 20-25years old rounds of 70s. Those rounds could penetrated M1A1HA, but not M1A1HC. Starting from DU armor of second generation (see M1A1HC and all later versions) Abrams became immune to contemporary Russian sabots and HEAT rounds.
@BitnikGr "Starting from DU armor of second generation (see M1A1HC and all later versions) Abrams became immune to contemporary Russian sabots and HEAT rounds."
In 1991 you mean? I do not want to get off topic, so maybe you could send me a PM on it, but what about modern Russian rounds like the Mango round and so on, and what that would do to modern, upgraded Abrams tanks. Thanks!
I did understand you. My point is that its often said that the T-72 performed badly against the M-1 because the ammo for the 2A46 guns was either an export variant or defective.
As a tanker I know that one or two rounds in a lot may be defective, the the chances of an entire nation's supply being defective is next to zero.
I also know that ammo improvement is gradual, and its effectiveness does not increase in quantum jumps.
@HANDARAN1 holy chuck norris ball's sack you are a dumb ass here's a coo.... no no helllllllllllllllllllllllll NO you don't deserve a cookie FUCK YOU
@itoy97 Iraqs army at that time was rated worlds 6th best. WE beat them in 100 hours because they were scared of what would happen to them. Vietnam is a guerilla war, much like ours against britain in 1776. Your fighting a people ,not an army, therefore you cannot win. Somalia was the same. Please never say taht again without knowing anything about strategy, tactics, and world views.
Now I don't want a lot of hate mail from Delta or AK, but I am just trying to add a touch of reality to your conversation, bring it back to earth. You both seem fairly enthusiastic, however I question your ground knowledge on both military hardware and political issues. If either of you would like a more specific explanation, I'd be more than happy to pm you as there isn't enough space in any of these boxes. Any conversation on tanks is welcome, I go into the Royal Armoured Corps in 14 months
I love when people still say russian shit is better than US equipment seriously Russian stuff is made in a poor fucking country where very little funding goes to military US spends billions and has best military in world!
@ak907jk sweden has better military tech, hell their subs, gotlands i think are sinking yours and even sunk a ronald reagan in a simulation, you cant even detect them, they also make good jets, and their equipement is pretty good, even USA buys stuff from them
@deltaD07 I didn't say sweden but ok and yea we have simulators in US to against every country and guess what we always win when we do training with the south koreans against us we always let south koreans win lol its all about moral when it comes to "simulations" and the US has better trained troops that are combat hardened and tested and we have a lot more soldiers and equipment than Sweden.
@deltaD07 I have neighbors from Sweden and they are really nice every time they go back to Sweden and come back they bring us candies and gifts they are really cool people and they do not hate the US. I was talking about Russian equipment it is outdated and under funded and no match for modern militaries like the Sweden military or US military so you can quit the Im better than you BS because every country has advantages and disadvantages and no country is perfect.
@ak907jk of course swedes dont hate the US, they are mostly friendly, and im not saying their country is better just that dont say your equipement is better cuz even the swedes artillery is better, they just type in a computer and boom while the US mans the artillery with dudes and fires it slowly, of course they wouldnt last long in a war vs the US but they have some of the most advanced equipement in the world in military, not because its the US their gear is beter u know
@ak907jk not saying th country is better, just the equipement, but your saying the US has the best military in the world, well, in some ways they are but their gear isnt the best and im sorry to say some of them are pretty crazy, i mean they do inhumane stuff sometimes, like bombings for example, even if they kill inocent civilians they would gladly do it again, dont get me wrong, i appreciate them fighting over there but SOME are pretty crazy.
@deltaD07 I agree sweden does have better equipment and we buy it but I was talking about the outdated russian equipment both US and Sweden supersede russia in military equipment and funding. Look at WW2 that is how wars need to be fought you kill everything not police the world so bombing I have no problem with civilians or insurgents and now days the line between both is hard to see both sides claim different some say US killed civilians some say insurgents no one will ever know the truth
@deltaD07 As for you Mr Delta, Sweden's military equipment is very good, but not the best in all fields. The United States are kicking out some very good platforms and systems, and their latest artillery (Archer) supersedes any other artillery platform. As for the Subs.....most modern subs are hard to find....that's what we design them to do, it is the same whether it be American, Swedish, British or Russian, so much so that a French and Brit sub collided in the Atlantic. Don't oversell yourself
@ak907jk Some Russian equipment is better than that of the USA. Their equipment programmes receive very high funding levels, and the stuff they put out is actually not a poor quality at all, do not confuse Russian built specimens with those of arab nations who build designs (poorly) under license.
The Russians are a very forward thinking nation when it comes to kit, and make stuff that balances tech, quality and durability. NATO tends to focus more on the first 2 but not the 3rd
@ak907jk Even the T72, which everyone says is shit, is more than a match for centurion, M41, M47, M48 and the T80 is better than the M60 and Cheiftain. Just because they have held onto their stuff (because it lasts more than 5 minutes) doesn't mean it is shit.
Agreed the latest CR2s and M1A2s are ahead, but the T90 is a very potent platform, incorporating technologies that we have not fitted yet such as AA defence, shtora, nvakidka, kaktus 5 era as well as reducing radar sig. Quite good stuff
@WickyWiggstaz Yea they build their tanks to combat NATO tanks we build ours to meet moderate threats and if we spent more money on the Abrams then it would only give tax payers and anti US trolls a reason to complain when the M1A2 already meets qualifications needed in the field we are not at threat of being attacked by a highly advanced military. Russia is scared of that hence all the defense.
@JuanchoMan treu moral of the story, us already been fucked loong time ago by your own governing puppets!
You tax been sucked away from you and your not even born children, untill far into the futur, that is 'if' you still have a future. These wars waging money sucking industrie have been using the american people for their benefits and YOU have been just brainwashed into their lies! Please, wake up and help the next generation of children who needs our help to be not in debt already!
The masons, the true owners of the government of usa shose the mason symbol as "the american armored divission" That symbol can be recognized as the spartan lambda, But...as USA is a masin country and all the politicals are from the frank masonry and free masonry the most logical thing is that that symbol is a mason symbol
@barbarotico why dont you do this you moron...google spartan lambda...and shut the fuck up your a idiot and a dumbass and respond to my posts dont sully this post with your crap
@RJF1966 REMEMBER THAT US IS A LACKEY OF JEWISH AND YOU ARE JUST A WAR SLAVE FOR THE INTERNATIONAL ZIONISM. SO SHUT UP YOUR MOUTH, TAKE YOUR RIFLE, GO TO FIGHT THE BRAVE AND HEROIC MUSLIMS...AND WHAN YOU RETURN DON'T FORGET TO SUCK SOME JEWISH BALLS. A TRUE AND BRAVE SOLDIER DON'T GO TO FIGHT ANOTHER PEOPLE AT MORE THAT 5 MILED AWAY, THE TRUE ENEMY IS HERE AND ARE THE ADL, NAACP, ACLU AND ALL THOSE TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS WITH THE ORGANIZED CRIME GROUPS AND LOW LIFE NEIGHBORHOODS.
@barbarotico so now your blaming the jews? your just a total IDIOT and dipshit..serrious dont you have anything better to do that post your bullshit? are you a chiristian? muslim? if your a christian you do realize Jesus was a jew? the only thing your right is about the NAACP and ACLU..they are not terriorists they are socialist idiots..as for my guns ..i have more than enough to deal with them or morons just like you go do the world a favor and kill yourself..and did you look up the lambda?
@RJF1966 jesus hated the jews, he was against the scribes and fariseos that are the same people of the jews of today. furthermore I'm speacking the truth that USA is the lackey and war slave of Isra-hell. And for your information I'm atheist and for me the bible (especially the torah)have the same value of the toilet paper.
@barbarotico WTF the message of Jesus was love...he said when mary was about to get stoned "he who is without sin cast the first stone" yea its obvious your a atheist with that statement..as for the toilet paper ..thats has a use you nor your bullshit do not..that makes you worth less than toilet paper proven with those dumbass ignorant post you just made..move to china they love people like you and communists are athiests too so you will have fun there...
@RJF1966 I'm against communism, I'm against capitalism, I'm against teocracy, I'm against anarchism. All religions are primitive governments, created to exploit the men. The sin don't exist, If you want to learn something you are obligued to commit sin in the process of learning.
@barbarotico so you dont believe in anything? except posting lies? he who doesnt beleive in anything will fall for anything. as for learning i listen and respond to anything i beleive is right or wrong or just a plain lie..like your sion posts about the ^ which is the greek symbol for the spartan lambda..the greeks have one of the worlds oldest social orders in human history..and that symbol is the american miltarys sign for hte armored spartan hoplite..there you just learned something
@RJF1966 See the mason symbols here in youtube and you will see that symbol there. That is not a greck symbol, that is a mason symbol. You will see a compas, the square and a G in the midle. Those tanks are jewish mason tanks, they are not american tanks. An about my believing in god, yes I believe in god...The name od that god is barbarotico (me) and I preach to him everyday.
@barbarotico you see that ^ with the 53 under it ?? thats represents the american armored formation that 53 is the unit number of its combat divsion..you can see what you want..but thats exactly what it is..some of the usual military and ex miltary types will come into this post and laugh you out of here with your foolishness. Now you callyourself a god..what ever you can worship yourself then...your your best friend keep it up man your doing good
@RJF1966 Who is the owner of the US? The jewish. Why this country is in war with the middle east? to protect the ass to Isra-hell. Who are the president of the federal reserve? Shalom bernanki (jewish). Who control the mass media in USA? The jewish. The 2 principal party of US (republican and democrats only respont to the jewish interests. The US ejercit only respond to jewish interests and the ^ is a mason symbol, is a "subliminal" symbol customed of greec letter
@barbarotico again here you go with the jew thing again...so you blame all your problems on the jews? are you a nazi? must be because only the weak mineded murdering athiests do..your club is very exclusive with the elites like MAO and STALIN ..what do they have in common? athiests...comgradutions i have just taught you another thing in 2 days oh BTW those 2 are the biggest mass murderers in the history of the world :)
@barbarotico Yaknow the last person that was complaining too much about the fucking jews started a world war, if you hate them somuch and have the intentions of stopping them and their jew ways, Please be ready for an international conflict where everyone else will join your side.
@Toophless1 Their Jewish Traditions, like stealing our jobs and money and stealing people's land and murdering civilians who have a right to live there.
Did you noted the symbol of the masonry printed at the side of the abraham tanks? The masonry is the sionist organization that control the american government hiden behind the political scene.
@barbarotico that ^ on the side of the abrams is the armored logo for american armored divisions and units..it is also the called the spartan lambda.....its not some secret organization..
@Scoutrussp7. This video does not contain the actual footage of the battle. As it was said in the video, a small group of US tanks were outnumbered by T-72s and other Iraqi armored vehicles. The Americans were happy that they were all alive after the battle.
the video says that a small group of US tanks were outnumbered by allien gravity tanks and other UFOs.
Iraqi were not able to outnumber americans by t-72s, because they had a few of them. If to be correct, around 40-50 t-72s of first modifications. Only T-54s or their chineese copies, and some their own-made Asad-babils tanks, which looks like t-72s.
@Scoutrussp7. You did not understand what this video said. In this battle there were only 9 US tanks vs. an Iraqi Armour Brigade consisting of at least 28 T-72s and dozens of armored vehicles and other older tanks which is why the US was outnumbered. The video was not comparing the total number of US tanks vs the total number of Iraqi T-72s used in the entire war. In the whole war, the US had over 1000 Abrams while the Iraqis had over 4000 tanks.
you know why the T-72 turret when hit blows off the chasse? because the ammo where they keep the ammo is in a circle pattern so when the abrams fires a Sabot Or HEAT round it heats the tank explodes and the explosing has nowhere to go hence a turretless T-72 in the aftermath
@AllofStewie T55 and T72 are not exactly the latest and greatest of Soviet or post-Soviet battle gear ... those numbers correspond to the "years" that those tanks were first produced. So, yeah, I would hope that the Abrams would come out on top of the thirty years-old T72 and fifty years-old T55 because, if it didn't, it would mean something in our industrial complex was terribly wrong (especially seeing as we are able to obtain working copies of most pre-eighties Soviet tech where we need to).
This over two hour 9/11 account.. is not like all of the other footage from that day.. 'Tuesday Morning in September': It is what 9/11 was to many, outside the first ring at Ground Zero. It is in reverence to those who perished, and respectful to those who lost their loved ones on that paradigm shifting tragic day. It is the retrospection that is needed for our time.
EdGeyy you need to check yourself. I served with then LTC H.R. McMaster in 1-4 Cav. He is the finest officer I have even seen and I would follow him to Hell.
this video just proves how good the american military is one of the best in the world and will be for a long time to come since we have one of the most experianced military cause of all the wars we have been in i kinda repeated myself but watever
@pinoy1000 Yeah but they also had night/therman vision, computer navigation, and laser rangefinder, along with joystick controlls, while hte republican guard used crankshafts to turn the turret, cudnt see shit, and used like 30 yo soviet shells
@andrey85822 Uh, you wish? The T-90 is a modest contemporary replacement for the T-72/T-80Bs until the Black Eagle arrives. It isn't the world's best main battle tank... It does, however, incorporate one of the world's greatest tanks of all time's (The T-80Y (in Russian) T-80U (In Western.) Armour and fire control systems.
@andrey85822 And lastly, the T-90 has not been tested against the M1 Abrams. The T-72M1s of Iraq have been tested against American M-60s/Israeli M-60s, and have failed on both fronts (see 1982 Israeli-Lebanon war, 1991 Gulf War (U.S Coalition Forces.) And I do understand that the T-72 Ms were indeed inferior to Abrams tanks. But the M1 Kit did upgrade the Armour, optics, ect. So, it was a reasonable opponent.
This desert tank video reminds me of what my Grandfather served under Gen Patton in a tank and was the first to invade North Africa, Italy and then on to France with Patton, something happened to his tank in France and came home with metal knee caps I watched tank videos on Youtube today and cried - I just seemed to place my grandfather in them doing it Thanks to my buddies who are serving, and have served, those who went before me to give us what we have now!
the M829a2 is a much better round than the A1..i know that from what i heard the A3 round didnt do as well thats just rumor. I think it might have been newest reactive armor the russians introduced. regardless the military isnt very forthcomming on the newest Data on the A2 and following rounds. The T-80Us we had had the 2nd to newest APFDS rounds so thats how i came to my conclusions on the killing power of the main gun of the T80
first off professor you are using the m829a1 round as a baseline...i guess since you know everything that you knew it was retired some time i believe it was 1992 give or take a few years..and yet you continue to use it as a baseline..tell you what i can quell this argument fast..do this professor this will give us a good idea on general proformances.. barrel length of the both the main guns, muzzle velocity, APFDS weight, there are other factors such as barrel resistance round resistance...-
@RJF1966 I used it because it is the only refference I had. M1A1+XM21+M829A1 has that accuracy I described. Of course M829A3 can be different against stationary targets and it has more penetrating power. But against moving targets I think M829A3 is evern worse than M829A1, for the simple reason that it is almost by 200m/s slower!
M1A1 FCS error dispersion is 0.00033radians.
T-80 - 0.0006
German sabots (very similar to US ones) has also less dispersion than soviet ones.
@BitnikGr being 200ms slower does not in anyway mean its not as hard as hitting.. if the projectile is has more mass to compensate for the loss of velocity then it will hit harder.. for instance a 135 gr .40 call bullet moving at 1300fps hits much harder than a 180 gr bullet moving at 900 fps the 135gr has 500 ftlbs of energy compared to some 400 ftlbs of energy thats a 20% increase in hitting power
@RJF1966 "being 200ms slower does not in anyway mean its not as hard as hitting" - And isn't the same with what I said that M829A3 has more penetration power than A1, despite it is slower?
Less speed means it is less accurate against moving targets at long ranges.
We agree that if target has less than 1 second to react then sabot will hit it, right?
Well, in case of A1 it is 1750meters, in case of A3 it is 1555. M829A3 is even less accurate than A1, cause it needs more time to reach target.
Which means that whatever M1A1 can do with its HEAT or KE rounds (aka ballistic or unguided) rounds T-80 will performe worse in same conditions at same distances.
Guided munition has much greater accuracy over long distances.
In general, contemporary US Armored Divisions are better than Armored Forces of Russian Federation. Sattisfied?
PS: "barrel length of the both the main guns, APFDS weight, there are other factors such as barrel resistance round resistance" - everything of the above is calculated by FCS and are included in error probability.
"muzzle velocity" - is considered in calculations.
@BitnikGr FCS and the other variables make the winnner clear then. The differance is the FCS is the deal breaker..and there is a differeance between the main gun of the russians and the german. The german gun is better. i know about the lag time between the time of fire and time of impact that is a indisputable fact..but the FCS compensates for that unless the driver of the target is skilled and knows he is underfire.thats why i stated the M829a1 and A3 there is a big differance in proformance
@RJF1966 Yes... in real combat scenarios, on real terrain, with cooperation with other troops Abrams is better. Not everywhere visibility is good enough to use ATGM at 5km (that's why there are only 3-4 ATGM in every T-tank ammo storage). Abrams BMS will allow to Abrams to decide where it wants to engage the enemy or to avoid it. It is a huge plus too.
Just when we compare two any tanks, we usually compare them in ideal conditions and from max range available.
@BitnikGr well combined arms training in the american military is drilled into the solders. as for ATGM i have a pile of books on armored combat that goes back to WW2. the ATGM that the T80s use isnt very good from what i understand. but even with less than a 40% hit chance i guess its better than nothing.
@BitnikGr im not trying to get you to say americans are better. They are not in alot of instances. But the biggest differance between american solders at everyone else is training. many armys do not want to invest the time into skilled positions in their military....we do. We also place emphisis into projection of power ...NATO relies on america for this. You have posted valid arguments...if that means anything
@RJF1966 ... that in general US armored divisions are better.
Even if T-90 is 100% better than M1A2, does it matter at all, while backbone of RF Armored Forces are T-72 (even BM). And T-90 are only several hundrends... underequipped and crews are not trained. That's why I said that US would win in 91 and 03 even if they had M60A3 TTS and no Abrams at all.
Computer simulation of 10 T-90 vs 10 M1A2 at 5km head on collision, show that Abrams team would loose 4-5 tanks before they reach to effective range of their guns...
But computer simulation suggests ideal conditions, ideally trained crews, ideally equipped vehicles. Which is not the case in real life!
So, it is not you who make me say that US Cavalry is better trained, better equipped and better maintained.
@BitnikGr so long as we can have this type of discusion you have nothing to be sorry for mate. You have giving me some insight on armored combat i like to get a non american view on things..and i know that alot of western europe and russia has a poor view on america..i dont care personally because in general we have nothing to be sorry about. the key word is in general :)
Well, I guess it's interesting. A former Abrams gunner from Fort Knox is describing a hypothetical one by one combat between M1A2 SEP and T-80UM1. The first one is armed with M829A2 projectile. The second one is armed with 3БМ42. Initial distance between them is 4000 m.
T-80 begins from use of the Reflex ATGM system. Probably even twice. The Reflex may hit or not. If ATGM hit then you might get problems with your optics (your TIS breaks). It's a bad start.
Now Abrams is getting closer to T-80 at maximium speed. T-80 is not against this closeness. Now they are at 3000 m. They begin use APFSDS. I bet on T-80 because the shells loading at full speed on cross-country terrain is not problem for an autoloader. Now, it' all depends on a gunner. Especialy on the Abrams one. If he will hit at both the weakned turret zone or at the down part of hull, then T-80 will die. If he hits in front armor or in left/right side then chance to kill T-80 is 50/50.
@BorshCaen "Initial distance between them is 4000 m" - Why at 4 and not 4.5 or 5km?
"Probably even twice" - What is the max possible speed on cross road terrain? 50km/h? = 13.9m/s. 1000/13.9 = 72seconds! Time needed for 3БМ42 to fly 4km is 15seconds (worst possible). In 72 seconds which Abrams needs to cover 1000m, T-80 can launch 4! ATGMs, not "probably even twice".
Wanna see it on full speed of 70km/h? 19.4m/s. 1000/19.4=52seconds. 52/15=3... But which tank rides at full speed off road?!
Abrams MCD is very effective and fool 40% of incoming missiles. It can't deploy smoke grenades to prevent laser guided, because of its fast speed... it will drive through that smoke cloud.
So... 40% from 4 missiles is 1.6, so at least 2 missiles will find the target!
It is not sure destruction kill, but almost sure Mobility Kill. Immobile tank is a dead tank!
...
If Abrams will reach 3km, then it will drop speed to 15-20km/h.
@BorshCaen ... a stationary target, and to ensure accuracy. Actually that is a common tactic and US Armored divisions were using it in Iraq and is described here - metallicpea.wordpress(.)com/2007/10/05/not-that-kind-of-republican/38/
Whaever we say, at this range Abrams has an upper hand! And now it is time for T-80 to run forward with zigzags in order to present harder target to hit for Abrams and in order to get at their effective range 2-2.5km
In the same time, T-80 did many shoots and made hit to somewhere. If he hits in front armor then Abrams will survive. If a hit came to a weakned zone or down part of a hull then we have a dead Abrams. You can see it's difficult to fight one by one. I have to say a result will be the same if made a change on Leopard, Leclerc or Challendger.
Battlefield3 is awsome
cmwil4 3 weeks ago
bullshit,,,,there's no such story.
taggedmomo 1 month ago
Battlefield 3 tank mission
slipknot2302 1 month ago
McMasters had a solid tank design on his side; crews, NCO's, and Officers he had exhaustively trained; plus and a supply system to keep it all running.
The Iraqi Army had not trained its troops for the type of warfare they going to fight, had not equipped or supplied them well, and deployed them according to an out of date doctrine.
This allowed McMasters to fight a lop-sided battle whose outcome had been decided MONTHS before the first round was fired.
Thats how you win.
Waltham1892 2 months ago
This is pretty much proof that the m1 can stop a Russian invasion.
XtremeBordom 2 months ago
this would make a great show. just m1 tanks runnibng stuff over/blow stuff up/ running though buildibngs. I would so pay for a 90 minute movie. just to see that
noobking111 4 months ago
most of their opponents are totally untrained armies with poor tank equipment so it 's so easy for them to take them down!
6digit 5 months ago
@6digit actually t72's were the best soviet tanks at the time, and thats what the iraqis were using
dillon0331 4 months ago
@dillon0331 Actually you are wrong... by huge margin.
T-72s Iraqis had were on par with M60A1, which in no case was a competing level in 1991. In 1990-1991 Russians had much more advanced versions of T-72 and even more advanced T-80s.
You can't even think that downgraded export version built on base model in 1973 is the same with version built in 1985. It is like saying that M1A2 in 2000 is the same with original M1 in 1980.
BitnikGr 2 months ago 7
@itoy97 I wish I lived near you so I could take garrote wire to you're neck you little gook
smittyhoy 5 months ago
One of the guys in one of the tanks bumped his head while loading a round...so the Americans did have a wounded soldier. He took an aspirin and was declared to be ok. Every Iraqi soldier in this fight died. Let's call it a draw.
SoCalDualSport 5 months ago
гавно Ваш танк нашему танку в подметки не годится
Kortazz 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
America seriousy takes it up the ass ,fucked up nation of warmongering gloryseekers
LadyboyAgogo 6 months ago
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hey what a fuck man ...everyone knows THIS IS NOT TRUE ....amarican troops was lost this battel and they regroup the army
HANDARAN1 6 months ago
@HANDARAN1
in what world do you live ?
RicoWCHN 6 months ago 36
@RicoWCHN ...YAO im from Iraq and i know whats exactly happend in DESERT STORM YOU WASNT BORN AT THAT TIME lol
HANDARAN1 6 months ago
@RicoWCHN hes a weird german
alcapone796 4 months ago
@alcapone796 No, hes a muslim idiot who's infesting Germany like a roach
asianiinvasion 3 months ago
@RicoWCHN And what he wrote?
he simply delete your comment.
MrAipot 2 months ago in playlist Iraq
@HANDARAN1 lol like hell we did!
kdwedge243 6 months ago
@HANDARAN1 first i know english is many peoples 2nd or 3rd language ..but first by making the comment "eveyrone knows" your saying that i am included..second the Iraqis got their asses destroyed in this fight..you seem to be the only one that thinks the americans lost...so that does not mean everyone...put the hookah down and stop smoking the opium
RJF1966 6 months ago 5
@HANDARAN1 wow you do not know how powerful a m1a1 abrams is
coolcosby 5 months ago
@HANDARAN1 hmmm...super modern m1a1 abrams against outdated russian p.o.s's driven by panzy iraq's....you be the judge...
TheLAMarine 3 months ago
@TheLAMarine
The Iraqi's weren't "panzy." They kept coming even after the tanks to their left and right blew sky high.
Poorly equiped, poorly trained, poorly maintained, poorly supplied, yes. Cowards, no.
Waltham1892 2 months ago
@Waltham1892 What do you mean by "they kept coming"? :) They were not going anywhere. They were in dug-in defensive positions. They were sitting there and waiting M1A1 to come, meanwhile M1A1 had a greater range of detection and greater fire range. Narrator is wrong. With such obsolete tactics Iraqis were the ones who had no chance. It doesn't matter if they were 1 Brigade or 10 Brigades. M1 crews would always shoot first before they deplete all of their ammo.
BitnikGr 2 months ago 4
The Iraqi's were not always caught standing still (though they were most often caught that way).
We had several meeting engagements with them when our line of advance bisected their line of retreat.
They did fight, they didn't panic, but their leadership, training and equipment failed them.
As for shooting first, it’s not enough. You can shoot first and hit first but still not have the weight of fire to win. The Iraqi's could never get their numerical advantage to pay off for them.
Waltham1892 2 months ago
@Waltham1892 You are absolutely true in everything in this comment. In my previous comment I was talking solely about Battle of 73 Easting.
You are true about "weight of fire" and Iraqis were behind in this area too. Their old sabots and HEAT rounds from 70s couldn't pierce frontal M1A1 armor. Meanwhile, Russians had rounds in 1991, which were able to penetrate M1A1.
BitnikGr 2 months ago
Russian APDS will penetrate American armor, however, the question is at what range.
I'm not going to quote figures, but by the time a tank firing the best Russian APDS through a 2A46 reaches its effective range, it has been within the effective range of the M256 and its M829A3 ammo for a very long time.
This allows the M256 to engage through a much larger kill box than a tank armed with a 2A46.
Add to this the crew survivability issues with Russian tanks, and you've got a problem.
Waltham1892 2 months ago
@Waltham1892 I would prefer to stick to 1991 and not in general discussion about the most modern sabots from the most modern guns today. Cause in latter case difference in effective fire range is not so much as it was in Iraq in 91. Plus that from 80s all Soviet tanks had ATGM with 5km range, which M1 can only dream yet.
...
BitnikGr 2 months ago
During the Gulf War 1, my tank was struck by some kind of large ATGM. It destroyed a duffle bag attached to the front left of the turret and one of the smoke grenade dischargers, and that was about it.
In Gulf War II, there was an incident where a Hellfire was fired at a disabled M-1A1 to keep it from being captured, and it failed to destroy the tank.
If you are going to fight a M-1, and you want a hard kill, you are going to have to use a KE round.
Waltham1892 2 months ago
@BitnikGr
What tank did the soviets use during the gulf war as i am not sure?Thks!
pokemon5615 2 months ago
@pokemon5615 The USSR didn't use any tanks in the gulf war. In fact USSR already didn't exist when the "Desert Storm" started.
BitnikGr 2 months ago
@BitnikGr ok thks .
pokemon5615 2 months ago
@Waltham1892 ...
Returning to 1991,
M1A1 had M829A1 round (600mm at 3km), which was enough to penetrate Iraqi tanks at any possible distance. Effective fire range of M1A1 is 2800m.
Soviet rounds in 1990 had penetration of 600-800mm, which was also enough to penetrate M1A1 frontal armor at effective range of 2.5km
Iraqis however hadn't such rounds and their older guns had effective range of only 1800-2200m for different versions.
BitnikGr 2 months ago
Sorry, but you have overstated the ability of Russian ammo to penetrate the by a factor of at least two.
In the first Gulf War, the Russian made APDS ammo failed to penetrate at ranges under 400 meters.
Its hard to believe that the Iraqi's Russian ammo was defective and they didn't know it, or that the Russian ammo in Russian hands was so superior but they never gave it to their allies.
As an former Armor Officer, its does not jibe with my experiences.
Waltham1892 2 months ago
@Waltham1892 You didn't get me correctly.
Iraqis in 1991 had obsolete older rounds from 60s and 70s, which were unable to penetrate M1A1.
Russians, however, in 1991 had new rounds and of course they were more powerful than 20-25years old rounds of 70s. Those rounds could penetrated M1A1HA, but not M1A1HC. Starting from DU armor of second generation (see M1A1HC and all later versions) Abrams became immune to contemporary Russian sabots and HEAT rounds.
BitnikGr 2 months ago 3
@BitnikGr "Starting from DU armor of second generation (see M1A1HC and all later versions) Abrams became immune to contemporary Russian sabots and HEAT rounds."
In 1991 you mean? I do not want to get off topic, so maybe you could send me a PM on it, but what about modern Russian rounds like the Mango round and so on, and what that would do to modern, upgraded Abrams tanks. Thanks!
franknbeans4761 2 months ago
I did understand you. My point is that its often said that the T-72 performed badly against the M-1 because the ammo for the 2A46 guns was either an export variant or defective.
As a tanker I know that one or two rounds in a lot may be defective, the the chances of an entire nation's supply being defective is next to zero.
I also know that ammo improvement is gradual, and its effectiveness does not increase in quantum jumps.
Waltham1892 2 months ago
@Waltham1892 The best APFSDS round Iraqis could had is a 3BM22 sabot built in 1976. Penetration - 380mm at 2km.
Russian 3BM48 "Svinets" - 1991 - 600mm.
The best HEAT rounds Iraqis could had were 3BK18 and 3BK18M from 1975-1978 with penetration of 500-550mm
To 1988 Russians already had 3BK29 with 800mm penetration.
M1A1 prior HC version had 450-580mm vs APFSDS and 700 vs HEAT.
BitnikGr 2 months ago
@BitnikGr
I have not idea where you are getting these statistics from. I would guess a wargame or some manufacter's claims.
Real battle field performance is different, as was demonstrated by the ineffectiveness of Russian/Soviet ammunition.
Ammo which, according to litriture SHOULD have worked, didn't.
Waltham1892 2 months ago
@BitnikGr hey you back into it again? :) you were one of the few debts i had that were actually good. good to see you again
RJF1966 1 month ago
@HANDARAN1 holy chuck norris ball's sack you are a dumb ass here's a coo.... no no helllllllllllllllllllllllll NO you don't deserve a cookie FUCK YOU
falloutguy36 2 months ago
man is his worst enemy....
boazandjiacinth 7 months ago
@itoy97 USA > Indonesia. Argument resolved.
JIMB0SLIC3 7 months ago
@itoy97 Judging by your grammar....
"in skewl u lose, ha...ha...ha......"
pimpinchaldo 7 months ago
@itoy97 Iraqs army at that time was rated worlds 6th best. WE beat them in 100 hours because they were scared of what would happen to them. Vietnam is a guerilla war, much like ours against britain in 1776. Your fighting a people ,not an army, therefore you cannot win. Somalia was the same. Please never say taht again without knowing anything about strategy, tactics, and world views.
Cardinals525 7 months ago
Now I don't want a lot of hate mail from Delta or AK, but I am just trying to add a touch of reality to your conversation, bring it back to earth. You both seem fairly enthusiastic, however I question your ground knowledge on both military hardware and political issues. If either of you would like a more specific explanation, I'd be more than happy to pm you as there isn't enough space in any of these boxes. Any conversation on tanks is welcome, I go into the Royal Armoured Corps in 14 months
WickyWiggstaz 7 months ago
a round every 3 seconds? Bullshit, not even for an M1
WickyWiggstaz 7 months ago
the towel heads haven't a chance
looneyirish007 7 months ago
I love when people still say russian shit is better than US equipment seriously Russian stuff is made in a poor fucking country where very little funding goes to military US spends billions and has best military in world!
ak907jk 7 months ago
@ak907jk sweden has better military tech, hell their subs, gotlands i think are sinking yours and even sunk a ronald reagan in a simulation, you cant even detect them, they also make good jets, and their equipement is pretty good, even USA buys stuff from them
deltaD07 7 months ago
@deltaD07 I didn't say sweden but ok and yea we have simulators in US to against every country and guess what we always win when we do training with the south koreans against us we always let south koreans win lol its all about moral when it comes to "simulations" and the US has better trained troops that are combat hardened and tested and we have a lot more soldiers and equipment than Sweden.
ak907jk 7 months ago
@deltaD07 I have neighbors from Sweden and they are really nice every time they go back to Sweden and come back they bring us candies and gifts they are really cool people and they do not hate the US. I was talking about Russian equipment it is outdated and under funded and no match for modern militaries like the Sweden military or US military so you can quit the Im better than you BS because every country has advantages and disadvantages and no country is perfect.
ak907jk 7 months ago
@ak907jk of course swedes dont hate the US, they are mostly friendly, and im not saying their country is better just that dont say your equipement is better cuz even the swedes artillery is better, they just type in a computer and boom while the US mans the artillery with dudes and fires it slowly, of course they wouldnt last long in a war vs the US but they have some of the most advanced equipement in the world in military, not because its the US their gear is beter u know
deltaD07 7 months ago
@ak907jk not saying th country is better, just the equipement, but your saying the US has the best military in the world, well, in some ways they are but their gear isnt the best and im sorry to say some of them are pretty crazy, i mean they do inhumane stuff sometimes, like bombings for example, even if they kill inocent civilians they would gladly do it again, dont get me wrong, i appreciate them fighting over there but SOME are pretty crazy.
deltaD07 7 months ago
@deltaD07 I agree sweden does have better equipment and we buy it but I was talking about the outdated russian equipment both US and Sweden supersede russia in military equipment and funding. Look at WW2 that is how wars need to be fought you kill everything not police the world so bombing I have no problem with civilians or insurgents and now days the line between both is hard to see both sides claim different some say US killed civilians some say insurgents no one will ever know the truth
ak907jk 7 months ago
@ak907jk no arguing there
deltaD07 7 months ago
@deltaD07 As for you Mr Delta, Sweden's military equipment is very good, but not the best in all fields. The United States are kicking out some very good platforms and systems, and their latest artillery (Archer) supersedes any other artillery platform. As for the Subs.....most modern subs are hard to find....that's what we design them to do, it is the same whether it be American, Swedish, British or Russian, so much so that a French and Brit sub collided in the Atlantic. Don't oversell yourself
WickyWiggstaz 7 months ago
@WickyWiggstaz just saying, just cuz its made in US doesnt mean its the best
deltaD07 7 months ago
@ak907jk Some Russian equipment is better than that of the USA. Their equipment programmes receive very high funding levels, and the stuff they put out is actually not a poor quality at all, do not confuse Russian built specimens with those of arab nations who build designs (poorly) under license.
The Russians are a very forward thinking nation when it comes to kit, and make stuff that balances tech, quality and durability. NATO tends to focus more on the first 2 but not the 3rd
WickyWiggstaz 7 months ago
@ak907jk Even the T72, which everyone says is shit, is more than a match for centurion, M41, M47, M48 and the T80 is better than the M60 and Cheiftain. Just because they have held onto their stuff (because it lasts more than 5 minutes) doesn't mean it is shit.
Agreed the latest CR2s and M1A2s are ahead, but the T90 is a very potent platform, incorporating technologies that we have not fitted yet such as AA defence, shtora, nvakidka, kaktus 5 era as well as reducing radar sig. Quite good stuff
WickyWiggstaz 7 months ago
@WickyWiggstaz Yea they build their tanks to combat NATO tanks we build ours to meet moderate threats and if we spent more money on the Abrams then it would only give tax payers and anti US trolls a reason to complain when the M1A2 already meets qualifications needed in the field we are not at threat of being attacked by a highly advanced military. Russia is scared of that hence all the defense.
ak907jk 7 months ago
I DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT WORLD POLITICS I JUST WANT TO SEE THE M1 FUCK SHIT UP.
FickJaIchLiebeKiffen 8 months ago 50
@FickJaIchLiebeKiffen this.
hellx159 7 months ago
@FickJaIchLiebeKiffen WELL SAID!!!!
boazandjiacinth 7 months ago
@FickJaIchLiebeKiffen i feel the same way
ridicul8 2 months ago
@jalalaumad why am i mad?
michelb08 8 months ago
moral of the story, dont fuck with US
JuanchoMan 8 months ago
@JuanchoMan treu moral of the story, us already been fucked loong time ago by your own governing puppets!
You tax been sucked away from you and your not even born children, untill far into the futur, that is 'if' you still have a future. These wars waging money sucking industrie have been using the american people for their benefits and YOU have been just brainwashed into their lies! Please, wake up and help the next generation of children who needs our help to be not in debt already!
michelb08 8 months ago
WOW...
QSKQL91 8 months ago
Comment removed
QSKQL91 8 months ago
Wow... hellacious shooting guys.
Buelligan88 8 months ago
The masons, the true owners of the government of usa shose the mason symbol as "the american armored divission" That symbol can be recognized as the spartan lambda, But...as USA is a masin country and all the politicals are from the frank masonry and free masonry the most logical thing is that that symbol is a mason symbol
barbarotico 8 months ago
that is the masonry symbol, the zionist organization that corrode the gentile countries from inside.
barbarotico 8 months ago
@barbarotico why dont you do this you moron...google spartan lambda...and shut the fuck up your a idiot and a dumbass and respond to my posts dont sully this post with your crap
RJF1966 8 months ago
@RJF1966 REMEMBER THAT US IS A LACKEY OF JEWISH AND YOU ARE JUST A WAR SLAVE FOR THE INTERNATIONAL ZIONISM. SO SHUT UP YOUR MOUTH, TAKE YOUR RIFLE, GO TO FIGHT THE BRAVE AND HEROIC MUSLIMS...AND WHAN YOU RETURN DON'T FORGET TO SUCK SOME JEWISH BALLS. A TRUE AND BRAVE SOLDIER DON'T GO TO FIGHT ANOTHER PEOPLE AT MORE THAT 5 MILED AWAY, THE TRUE ENEMY IS HERE AND ARE THE ADL, NAACP, ACLU AND ALL THOSE TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS WITH THE ORGANIZED CRIME GROUPS AND LOW LIFE NEIGHBORHOODS.
barbarotico 8 months ago
@barbarotico so now your blaming the jews? your just a total IDIOT and dipshit..serrious dont you have anything better to do that post your bullshit? are you a chiristian? muslim? if your a christian you do realize Jesus was a jew? the only thing your right is about the NAACP and ACLU..they are not terriorists they are socialist idiots..as for my guns ..i have more than enough to deal with them or morons just like you go do the world a favor and kill yourself..and did you look up the lambda?
RJF1966 8 months ago
@RJF1966 jesus hated the jews, he was against the scribes and fariseos that are the same people of the jews of today. furthermore I'm speacking the truth that USA is the lackey and war slave of Isra-hell. And for your information I'm atheist and for me the bible (especially the torah)have the same value of the toilet paper.
barbarotico 8 months ago
@barbarotico WTF the message of Jesus was love...he said when mary was about to get stoned "he who is without sin cast the first stone" yea its obvious your a atheist with that statement..as for the toilet paper ..thats has a use you nor your bullshit do not..that makes you worth less than toilet paper proven with those dumbass ignorant post you just made..move to china they love people like you and communists are athiests too so you will have fun there...
RJF1966 8 months ago
@RJF1966 I'm against communism, I'm against capitalism, I'm against teocracy, I'm against anarchism. All religions are primitive governments, created to exploit the men. The sin don't exist, If you want to learn something you are obligued to commit sin in the process of learning.
barbarotico 8 months ago
@barbarotico so you dont believe in anything? except posting lies? he who doesnt beleive in anything will fall for anything. as for learning i listen and respond to anything i beleive is right or wrong or just a plain lie..like your sion posts about the ^ which is the greek symbol for the spartan lambda..the greeks have one of the worlds oldest social orders in human history..and that symbol is the american miltarys sign for hte armored spartan hoplite..there you just learned something
RJF1966 8 months ago
@RJF1966 See the mason symbols here in youtube and you will see that symbol there. That is not a greck symbol, that is a mason symbol. You will see a compas, the square and a G in the midle. Those tanks are jewish mason tanks, they are not american tanks. An about my believing in god, yes I believe in god...The name od that god is barbarotico (me) and I preach to him everyday.
barbarotico 8 months ago
@barbarotico you see that ^ with the 53 under it ?? thats represents the american armored formation that 53 is the unit number of its combat divsion..you can see what you want..but thats exactly what it is..some of the usual military and ex miltary types will come into this post and laugh you out of here with your foolishness. Now you callyourself a god..what ever you can worship yourself then...your your best friend keep it up man your doing good
RJF1966 8 months ago
@RJF1966 Who is the owner of the US? The jewish. Why this country is in war with the middle east? to protect the ass to Isra-hell. Who are the president of the federal reserve? Shalom bernanki (jewish). Who control the mass media in USA? The jewish. The 2 principal party of US (republican and democrats only respont to the jewish interests. The US ejercit only respond to jewish interests and the ^ is a mason symbol, is a "subliminal" symbol customed of greec letter
barbarotico 8 months ago
@barbarotico again here you go with the jew thing again...so you blame all your problems on the jews? are you a nazi? must be because only the weak mineded murdering athiests do..your club is very exclusive with the elites like MAO and STALIN ..what do they have in common? athiests...comgradutions i have just taught you another thing in 2 days oh BTW those 2 are the biggest mass murderers in the history of the world :)
RJF1966 8 months ago
@barbarotico Cool story bro. haha yes its all the jews fault, they are so evil, omg and free masons to haha.dude get a life .
icanmyshoetie 8 months ago 3
@barbarotico Yaknow the last person that was complaining too much about the fucking jews started a world war, if you hate them somuch and have the intentions of stopping them and their jew ways, Please be ready for an international conflict where everyone else will join your side.
Please do.
barkyindustries 7 months ago 4
@barkyindustries "....their jew ways."......explain please
Toophless1 7 months ago
@Toophless1 Their Jewish Traditions, like stealing our jobs and money and stealing people's land and murdering civilians who have a right to live there.
barkyindustries 7 months ago
@barkyindustries You're being facetious right?
mynameissooriginal2 6 months ago
@barkyindustries open mouth, insert foot, spin on toe. Enough said
Toophless1 6 months ago
@Toophless1 Please explain??
Please?
barkyindustries 6 months ago
Did you noted the symbol of the masonry printed at the side of the abraham tanks? The masonry is the sionist organization that control the american government hiden behind the political scene.
barbarotico 8 months ago
@barbarotico that ^ on the side of the abrams is the armored logo for american armored divisions and units..it is also the called the spartan lambda.....its not some secret organization..
RJF1966 8 months ago
Excellent gunnery skills ! You guys must have kicked ass on Tank Table 8 !
reddevilparatrooper 8 months ago
Funny how this happened after Madeleine Albright's assurance to Saddam that invading Kuwait would have the US's tacit approval.
P.S. To hell with you, militaristic fascists.
JoeSchmo2012 9 months ago
I see only T-54s
Yanks are so happy so they can kill made in 1948 year tank? :D
Scoutrussp7 9 months ago
@Scoutrussp7. This video does not contain the actual footage of the battle. As it was said in the video, a small group of US tanks were outnumbered by T-72s and other Iraqi armored vehicles. The Americans were happy that they were all alive after the battle.
raiden711 9 months ago
@raiden711
the video says that a small group of US tanks were outnumbered by allien gravity tanks and other UFOs.
Iraqi were not able to outnumber americans by t-72s, because they had a few of them. If to be correct, around 40-50 t-72s of first modifications. Only T-54s or their chineese copies, and some their own-made Asad-babils tanks, which looks like t-72s.
That's why you cannot see T-72s in video :D
Scoutrussp7 9 months ago
@Scoutrussp7. You did not understand what this video said. In this battle there were only 9 US tanks vs. an Iraqi Armour Brigade consisting of at least 28 T-72s and dozens of armored vehicles and other older tanks which is why the US was outnumbered. The video was not comparing the total number of US tanks vs the total number of Iraqi T-72s used in the entire war. In the whole war, the US had over 1000 Abrams while the Iraqis had over 4000 tanks.
raiden711 9 months ago
I served with Second Cav when Captain McMaster was a Major and Second Squadron Operations Officer. He now Commands 3rd CAV as its Colonel.
denvercopsooner 11 months ago
you know why the T-72 turret when hit blows off the chasse? because the ammo where they keep the ammo is in a circle pattern so when the abrams fires a Sabot Or HEAT round it heats the tank explodes and the explosing has nowhere to go hence a turretless T-72 in the aftermath
MrMrDrumline 11 months ago
GUNNER SABOT TANK!
ozmorphus 11 months ago
M1A1 vs T55-T72 Yeah!! Т72 could not even respond from its distance. Crew drawing "tank killer" on tank and stupid taxpayers are happy!
AllofStewie 11 months ago
@AllofStewie T55 and T72 are not exactly the latest and greatest of Soviet or post-Soviet battle gear ... those numbers correspond to the "years" that those tanks were first produced. So, yeah, I would hope that the Abrams would come out on top of the thirty years-old T72 and fifty years-old T55 because, if it didn't, it would mean something in our industrial complex was terribly wrong (especially seeing as we are able to obtain working copies of most pre-eighties Soviet tech where we need to).
l3o0ze 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Supersynapsis 11 months ago
thanks for posting this video. Awesome tribute to our guys over thare.
dhbiza 1 year ago
HELL YEAH KICK SOME ASS!!!!
C8Cloudius 1 year ago
i am bigger and stronger than most men so make me shut up
seancore64 1 year ago
@seancore64 ain't skerrd! lol.
mike31jmb 1 year ago
@seancore64 fist your ass you dickhead.
reinkaosMHB 1 year ago
@seancore64 I am a master of the universe. make me shut up as well.
commentmutant 11 months ago
EdGeyy you need to check yourself. I served with then LTC H.R. McMaster in 1-4 Cav. He is the finest officer I have even seen and I would follow him to Hell.
skippy1369 1 year ago
American comentating is horrific. Nice tank though.
EdGeyy 1 year ago
m1 tanks run the shit every war we are the main reason the insurgents got fucked up in phantom fury
htownsoldado 1 year ago
Ya i bet most those Iraqi tanks weren't even manned once the first couple popped so cant really take credit for all 28 kills just yet.
WithinReach2 1 year ago
@WithinReach2 Yeah, you're right. Saddam's Elite Guard never existed either. In fact the whole Iraqi armed forces turned out to be one big sham.
olmecbones 1 year ago
@seancore64: YEAH! thats what i´m talkin about!!
olo123171 1 year ago
usa all the way Americans are the best and the superior race . do not fuck with Americans
seancore64 1 year ago
@seancore64 I hope your joking.
ilikewarhammer 1 year ago
usa all the way Americans are the best and the superior race
seancore64 1 year ago
@seancore64
Watch your mouth....
AlexThePrivate 1 year ago
Death to idf tanks!!!
Idf tanks are from the terrorist and genocide israel
barbarotico 1 year ago
@barbarotico your comment is gay. and you are a terrorist. muslims hide behind women and children, then put bombs on airplanes. gay, gay, gay.
gaydanzig 1 year ago
@gaydanzig isreal is the real terrorist bombing schools. gay.gay.gay
jumbi100 1 year ago
we are done for it long life to the OTAN Force
jejeroy 1 year ago
this video just proves how good the american military is one of the best in the world and will be for a long time to come since we have one of the most experianced military cause of all the wars we have been in i kinda repeated myself but watever
MrTankfanatic 1 year ago
its more to to with the level of training and experience..thats why the americans pwned them
pinoy1000 1 year ago
@pinoy1000 Yeah but they also had night/therman vision, computer navigation, and laser rangefinder, along with joystick controlls, while hte republican guard used crankshafts to turn the turret, cudnt see shit, and used like 30 yo soviet shells
MultiAREE 1 year ago
Russian tanks the best of the best!!! T-90 forever!!! Русские танки самые лучшие!
Ваш абрамс-полное дерьмо!
andrey85822 1 year ago
@andrey85822 Uh, you wish? The T-90 is a modest contemporary replacement for the T-72/T-80Bs until the Black Eagle arrives. It isn't the world's best main battle tank... It does, however, incorporate one of the world's greatest tanks of all time's (The T-80Y (in Russian) T-80U (In Western.) Armour and fire control systems.
Tyco200 1 year ago
@andrey85822 No tank in the world can match the M1 Abrams Tank!
gfemg 1 year ago
@gfemg Wrong the IDF tank is considered the best by most military specialists
bigcoolviking 1 year ago
Russian tanks the best of the best!!! T-90 forever!!! Русские танки самые лучшие!
andrey85822 1 year ago
@andrey85822 And lastly, the T-90 has not been tested against the M1 Abrams. The T-72M1s of Iraq have been tested against American M-60s/Israeli M-60s, and have failed on both fronts (see 1982 Israeli-Lebanon war, 1991 Gulf War (U.S Coalition Forces.) And I do understand that the T-72 Ms were indeed inferior to Abrams tanks. But the M1 Kit did upgrade the Armour, optics, ect. So, it was a reasonable opponent.
Tyco200 1 year ago
2:27 smiley face on tank!!! :) lol
xxx903209xxx 1 year ago
Tanks are not explicitly destroyed by tanks
Biogem369 1 year ago
Oh boy :] Fuckinggg glad to be american!! Futer marine!
spartan117ace 1 year ago
I have only two words: HOLY SHIT!!!
GerDrSeltsam 1 year ago
This desert tank video reminds me of what my Grandfather served under Gen Patton in a tank and was the first to invade North Africa, Italy and then on to France with Patton, something happened to his tank in France and came home with metal knee caps I watched tank videos on Youtube today and cried - I just seemed to place my grandfather in them doing it Thanks to my buddies who are serving, and have served, those who went before me to give us what we have now!
leftheart13 1 year ago
@leftheart13 i bet he had some good storys to tell mate
RJF1966 1 year ago
the M829a2 is a much better round than the A1..i know that from what i heard the A3 round didnt do as well thats just rumor. I think it might have been newest reactive armor the russians introduced. regardless the military isnt very forthcomming on the newest Data on the A2 and following rounds. The T-80Us we had had the 2nd to newest APFDS rounds so thats how i came to my conclusions on the killing power of the main gun of the T80
RJF1966 1 year ago
first off professor you are using the m829a1 round as a baseline...i guess since you know everything that you knew it was retired some time i believe it was 1992 give or take a few years..and yet you continue to use it as a baseline..tell you what i can quell this argument fast..do this professor this will give us a good idea on general proformances.. barrel length of the both the main guns, muzzle velocity, APFDS weight, there are other factors such as barrel resistance round resistance...-
RJF1966 1 year ago
@RJF1966 I used it because it is the only refference I had. M1A1+XM21+M829A1 has that accuracy I described. Of course M829A3 can be different against stationary targets and it has more penetrating power. But against moving targets I think M829A3 is evern worse than M829A1, for the simple reason that it is almost by 200m/s slower!
M1A1 FCS error dispersion is 0.00033radians.
T-80 - 0.0006
German sabots (very similar to US ones) has also less dispersion than soviet ones.
...
BitnikGr 1 year ago
@BitnikGr being 200ms slower does not in anyway mean its not as hard as hitting.. if the projectile is has more mass to compensate for the loss of velocity then it will hit harder.. for instance a 135 gr .40 call bullet moving at 1300fps hits much harder than a 180 gr bullet moving at 900 fps the 135gr has 500 ftlbs of energy compared to some 400 ftlbs of energy thats a 20% increase in hitting power
RJF1966 1 year ago
@RJF1966 "being 200ms slower does not in anyway mean its not as hard as hitting" - And isn't the same with what I said that M829A3 has more penetration power than A1, despite it is slower?
Less speed means it is less accurate against moving targets at long ranges.
We agree that if target has less than 1 second to react then sabot will hit it, right?
Well, in case of A1 it is 1750meters, in case of A3 it is 1555. M829A3 is even less accurate than A1, cause it needs more time to reach target.
BitnikGr 1 year ago
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BitnikGr 1 year ago
@RJF1966 ...
Which means that whatever M1A1 can do with its HEAT or KE rounds (aka ballistic or unguided) rounds T-80 will performe worse in same conditions at same distances.
Guided munition has much greater accuracy over long distances.
BitnikGr 1 year ago
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BitnikGr 1 year ago
@RJF1966 ...
In 1 on 1 duel scenario
at dist -3km: M1A1 > T-80
at dist 3+km: T-80 (or any ATGM platform) > M1A1
In general, contemporary US Armored Divisions are better than Armored Forces of Russian Federation. Sattisfied?
PS: "barrel length of the both the main guns, APFDS weight, there are other factors such as barrel resistance round resistance" - everything of the above is calculated by FCS and are included in error probability.
"muzzle velocity" - is considered in calculations.
BitnikGr 1 year ago
@BitnikGr FCS and the other variables make the winnner clear then. The differance is the FCS is the deal breaker..and there is a differeance between the main gun of the russians and the german. The german gun is better. i know about the lag time between the time of fire and time of impact that is a indisputable fact..but the FCS compensates for that unless the driver of the target is skilled and knows he is underfire.thats why i stated the M829a1 and A3 there is a big differance in proformance
RJF1966 1 year ago
@RJF1966 Yes... in real combat scenarios, on real terrain, with cooperation with other troops Abrams is better. Not everywhere visibility is good enough to use ATGM at 5km (that's why there are only 3-4 ATGM in every T-tank ammo storage). Abrams BMS will allow to Abrams to decide where it wants to engage the enemy or to avoid it. It is a huge plus too.
Just when we compare two any tanks, we usually compare them in ideal conditions and from max range available.
BitnikGr 1 year ago
@BitnikGr well combined arms training in the american military is drilled into the solders. as for ATGM i have a pile of books on armored combat that goes back to WW2. the ATGM that the T80s use isnt very good from what i understand. but even with less than a 40% hit chance i guess its better than nothing.
RJF1966 1 year ago
@BitnikGr im not trying to get you to say americans are better. They are not in alot of instances. But the biggest differance between american solders at everyone else is training. many armys do not want to invest the time into skilled positions in their military....we do. We also place emphisis into projection of power ...NATO relies on america for this. You have posted valid arguments...if that means anything
RJF1966 1 year ago
@RJF1966 "im not trying to get you to say americans are better"
My opinion is not based on our discussion here.
MBTs are very complex subject for generalization and discussion which is better.
Most of tank destructions in history were due wrong tactical use and not fault of tanks. WW II, Chechnya 96, Lebanon 06.
Some smart colonel have stated:"Tactical usage of tanks, crew training, maintenance, are more important than tank's combat properties themselves."
...
And that's why I believe than...
BitnikGr 1 year ago
@RJF1966 ... that in general US armored divisions are better.
Even if T-90 is 100% better than M1A2, does it matter at all, while backbone of RF Armored Forces are T-72 (even BM). And T-90 are only several hundrends... underequipped and crews are not trained. That's why I said that US would win in 91 and 03 even if they had M60A3 TTS and no Abrams at all.
...
BitnikGr 1 year ago
@RJF1966 ...
Computer simulation of 10 T-90 vs 10 M1A2 at 5km head on collision, show that Abrams team would loose 4-5 tanks before they reach to effective range of their guns...
But computer simulation suggests ideal conditions, ideally trained crews, ideally equipped vehicles. Which is not the case in real life!
So, it is not you who make me say that US Cavalry is better trained, better equipped and better maintained.
Sorry for many posts... again :)
BitnikGr 1 year ago
@BitnikGr so long as we can have this type of discusion you have nothing to be sorry for mate. You have giving me some insight on armored combat i like to get a non american view on things..and i know that alot of western europe and russia has a poor view on america..i dont care personally because in general we have nothing to be sorry about. the key word is in general :)
RJF1966 1 year ago
Well, I guess it's interesting. A former Abrams gunner from Fort Knox is describing a hypothetical one by one combat between M1A2 SEP and T-80UM1. The first one is armed with M829A2 projectile. The second one is armed with 3БМ42. Initial distance between them is 4000 m.
T-80 begins from use of the Reflex ATGM system. Probably even twice. The Reflex may hit or not. If ATGM hit then you might get problems with your optics (your TIS breaks). It's a bad start.
BorshCaen 1 year ago
Now Abrams is getting closer to T-80 at maximium speed. T-80 is not against this closeness. Now they are at 3000 m. They begin use APFSDS. I bet on T-80 because the shells loading at full speed on cross-country terrain is not problem for an autoloader. Now, it' all depends on a gunner. Especialy on the Abrams one. If he will hit at both the weakned turret zone or at the down part of hull, then T-80 will die. If he hits in front armor or in left/right side then chance to kill T-80 is 50/50.
BorshCaen 1 year ago
@BorshCaen "Initial distance between them is 4000 m" - Why at 4 and not 4.5 or 5km?
"Probably even twice" - What is the max possible speed on cross road terrain? 50km/h? = 13.9m/s. 1000/13.9 = 72seconds! Time needed for 3БМ42 to fly 4km is 15seconds (worst possible). In 72 seconds which Abrams needs to cover 1000m, T-80 can launch 4! ATGMs, not "probably even twice".
Wanna see it on full speed of 70km/h? 19.4m/s. 1000/19.4=52seconds. 52/15=3... But which tank rides at full speed off road?!
...
BitnikGr 1 year ago
@BitnikGr I just translated a part of his interview. Ask not me.
BorshCaen 1 year ago
@BorshCaen ...
Abrams MCD is very effective and fool 40% of incoming missiles. It can't deploy smoke grenades to prevent laser guided, because of its fast speed... it will drive through that smoke cloud.
So... 40% from 4 missiles is 1.6, so at least 2 missiles will find the target!
It is not sure destruction kill, but almost sure Mobility Kill. Immobile tank is a dead tank!
...
If Abrams will reach 3km, then it will drop speed to 15-20km/h.
Slow moving is necessary to avoid presenting a...
BitnikGr 1 year ago
@BorshCaen ... a stationary target, and to ensure accuracy. Actually that is a common tactic and US Armored divisions were using it in Iraq and is described here - metallicpea.wordpress(.)com/2007/10/05/not-that-kind-of-republican/38/
Whaever we say, at this range Abrams has an upper hand! And now it is time for T-80 to run forward with zigzags in order to present harder target to hit for Abrams and in order to get at their effective range 2-2.5km
If Abrams gets at <3km, it will probably win.
BitnikGr 1 year ago
In the same time, T-80 did many shoots and made hit to somewhere. If he hits in front armor then Abrams will survive. If a hit came to a weakned zone or down part of a hull then we have a dead Abrams. You can see it's difficult to fight one by one. I have to say a result will be the same if made a change on Leopard, Leclerc or Challendger.
BorshCaen 1 year ago