Death panels are not just a political fetish of conservatives. We will have to have a serious conversation about death in this nation. We can't afford the unlimited demands of the elderly to extend their lives for a few more months at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars. At some point, we have to say: "That's enough. It's time to let nature take its course and just die with peace."
Key indicators are terms like "death panels" to describe medical decisions on patient care, and questioning regarding the cost of health care without asking if this was a factor in the decision as is always is the case w. private health insurance.
At what cost do those who put profit over patients force us to pay, at what cost of pain, suffering and death when their profits are foremost; and how do we hold such people accountable.
Publicly funded doctors should make medical decisions, not accountants
This "news" item is likely generated by the pharmaceutical company referenced and private insurance companies who oppose public health insurance. It is in their financial interest to exploit patient fear for private profit.
Key indicators are terms like "death panels" to describe medical decisions on patient care, and questioning regarding the cost of health care without asking if this was a factor in the decision as is always is the case w. private health insurance.
this is old news. This story is from either 07 or 08, this lady died in 08, and this is a result of public healthcare in Oregon that went into effect in 1993
In the UK, Euthanasia and assisted suicide is illegal, simple as. And the majority of illnesses are covered free of charge. For those which are not there are hundreds of charities willing to support a patient.
Government is wonderful, they'll help you commit suicide and call it comfort care. How much longer are people going to take this crap? These bureaucrats that get paid over 100k a year need to be rid of, we don't need them, but they defend their position with their bullshit.
yeah.i am on medicaid.they will pay for 5000$ worth of useless prescriptions i dont want,attempting to insist with mental health meds.they will not provide access to ANY alternative treatments ie:chiropractic,acupunture,massage therapy,herbal meds for those sensitive to synthetics.dental wise,they only offer murcury/amalgam fillings and wont remove them for those mercury poisoned.they wont provide heavymetal toxicity tests to provePoisoning either,#1cause of fibromyalgia &chronicFatigue syndrome
isn't it ironic that the same baby boomers that fought for the right to kill there baby in the womb now face death panels because there are not enough young working people to pay for thier health care?
@seaohnyc Whose dying? If you don't want to worry about the govenment running out of funds USE YOUR PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANY. Its not like it doesn't exist anymore. Isn't the only thing different is that people without private insurance don't have a 100% chance of dying.
@ryukXsayu27 WHOS DYING did you wacth the video ????? oregon told her they would pay for her suicide but not medication to save her!! besides the point of Obama xcare is to rid the system of priviate insurance.
@seaohnyc I do think the Oregon system is messed up, covering comfort and asassisted suicide instead of treatment. But, "the point of Obama xcare is to rid the system of private insurance" is completely made up. This ain't East Germany, nobody's dying.
"Unable to approve"? The hell kind of statement is that? In socialized medical systems, there's no question of treatment ever being denied versus approved. Now Americans think this is what socialized healthcare is. Great.
The fact is, the U.S. has the most expensive health care system on the planet earth.
Life expectancy in The U.S. has plummeted... and it is because of our failed health care system.
Universal Health care has been tested many, many times and has been shown to be both more effective and more efficient than the system we have in this country.
insurance companies deny coverage all the time. They not only deny coverage, but drop people when they get sick.
you people realize private insurance companies have been having "death panels" for decades. the deny care all the time to make a few extra bucks. herp derp free market! herp de derp.
see healthcare link at IDIOTS4OBAMA COM. radicals like Obama, have always been for death panels. Just like Margeret Sangor was for exterminating black babies. Wake up you naive retards, read the fucking bill yourself ya lazy vermin Obama supporters.
@4jayeP is a total troll who just got OWNED. lol anyone who reads the comments know I did not say for anyone to stop paying there insurance , I said ( if ) everyone stopped paying
You know if everyone in the united states took a stand all at the same time and didnt pay the insurance for one month, it would put the insurance companys in such a bind they would have to lower cost and be more reasonable ,If they dont have the money they dont have the power.
@erwintipton what you are suggesting is pure insanity. If you think your idea is so great why don't you lead the way and stop paying on YOUR insurance.
@4JayeP Hey dumb shit, Did I say for everyone to stop paying ,,No I didnt , I said (IF) everyone stoped paying, Get your facts strait, Your nothing more than a stupid troller and everyone reading your comments on my comments know its
@erwintipton ...and I quote " if everyone in the united states took a stand all at the same time and didnt pay the insurance for one month" eat shit buddy. You've just been owned.
Did anyone else notice how Dr. Saha (sp?) looks up and to the left when he responds? It makes me question his honesty or at the very least his uncertainty of "how do I answer this question without sounding like a heartless bureacrat?". His answer to the follow-up question seems to support that he was desperately trying not to appear mercenary, although that is certainly the nature of the policy he is articulating.
@supercharger64 it is a kinda heartless proceedings health care...just in general. these "death councils" as people call them are common place in EVERY insurance company. someone somewhere has to take a statistical probability of your survival, the amount of money you pay a month, the overall budget, and the aggregate cost of the procedure and churn out through some mathematical function whether or not they will cover you.
The alternative to suicide is to provide hard-working families whose employers do not provide any medical benefits with the help they need to be able to afford to buy their own private-sector health insurance.
That is the plan that was passed by the Democrats.
The Republican prefer simply to deny American families insurance. Denying people insurance means denying them health care. The entire Republican National Committee has become a giant death panel.
i hope that fucker that says that treatment is too expensive gets cancer or better than that a loved one. let him sit there and explain to his family that i am sorry the state doesnt think that you are worth saving. and let him sit there and watch them suffer. maybe then he can swallow that shit he was spitting out and say i am sorry to the woman that he refuses to get help for and when he swallows that shit then he can lean over kiss his loved one and then pull the plug
@fishininthesouth Health care is a scarce resource. It will always be rationed. Right now it is rationed by private insurance companies.
Is this really so difficult to understand? Either way, the net result is that in countries with socialized health care and end of life counseling, average lifespans are longer, so clearly old people are not being put to death.
And what is wrong with that. I dont think americans actually oppose Death panels, I just think they want to be in control of it. You guys do know money doesnt grow on trees. It has to come from somewhere and tough decisions have to be made unnlike the medicare system which generally approves every treatment regardless of ability to pay.
Death panel exist in the real world and as long as resources are limited, they will continue to exist
More wingnut garbage, taken out of context. Notice how the video starts? Half way. More Faux News tricks. Don't be fooled by the crazy's! They're afraid of losing the money that the insurance companies are lining their pockets with by denying care to millions of folks. They are the REAL death panels. The greedy: those that love money, which are the root of all evil.
There is no difference in BHO health care plan, Section 1233 of HR 3200, which pays doctors to get rid of the old and sick to save money by badgering them to choose hospice care or assisted suicide and the T4 program that paid doctors to fill out each questionnaire on their patients they reviewed. Doctors in Germany could earn up to $70 in 1940 US dollars for this patriotic duty.
70th percent of every healthcare cost is spent by people 65yrs and older and its all thanks to medicare and the free spending US govt. I say put the damn death panel in, right now 90yrs old are getting hip replacements, heart surgeries.... I say if you are that old and need those treatment then pay for it yourself dont stop and stealing from the youth for your cadilliac socialist healthcare
i hope that someone in your family needs treatment and you can tell them that they are too damn old to save and kiss your grandad good by tell him he lived his life and now you have to die. or either you need a transplant and you can tell your self that it is ok. i wouldnt want any money spent on me. fuck it let me die yea not ever seeing my family again would be a great thing. when your mom or dad gets cancer tell them ol well i wanted obama and i got what i wanted. so fuck off and die
Dillon X was right. There was no cure for this cancer, and what the state said was that they would not pay for the false hope offered by the doctor with this drug. I agree that doing this in a letter is inhumane. Ms. Wagner's doctor should have stepped up to the plate and been more honest with her.
Public sector: "We choose not to pay for needed Chemotherapy drugs"
Private sector: "We will provide the needed drugs at no charge"
The problem here is not lack of insurance; it is that all of us with insurance bid the price of health care up because we don't have to pay for it. If we were allowed by our government to purchase actual health insurance, this would not be an issue.
Not sure what you mean by your post, but if the private sector would pay for that medicine, there wouldn't be a problem. The whole problem here is the private sector charges too much for the medicine, and the government has a limited budget because taxpayers don't want to pay for more. Private insurance companies do too.
But as I heard the story nobody actually told this woman she should take her own life, that is just something invented by the reporter's reading of various laws.
Well, "too much" can be a relative term. But most sectors of the health service economy want to make a profit. To be fair, the health business does have high overhead so it will never be cheap.
If you work for a company that pays well, has a good insurance plan, and you are relatively healthy, health care is NOT too expensive. Get laid off, or your company changes plans, or get a serious illness so you both rack up big bills and have to quit work, and it can QUICKLY get unfordable.
There are many reasons health care providers charge what they do. They do not simply meet and say "we want to make 30% more profit this year." They charge more because their costs go up. Insurance companies, in turn, charge more because their costs go up. We, the consumers of health care, must then pay more because, if we want the service provided, we must cover the costs incurred by those who provide it, or it will not be provided.
The reason that health care costs go up at a rate higher than inflation is people with a good insurance plan, like yours. People with "good" insurance do not ever face a significant health bill that they must pay. Therefore, the demand for this service is artificially stimulated by an apparent zero-cost. This increased demand in turn raises prices. People who must pay medical bills out of pocket are left in the lurch and must pay the full price.
Yes there are many reasons health care costs go up. But you cannot simply cast a government insurance plan that decides it cannot pay a certain cost as the bad guy without acknowledging that this cost was created by a PRIVATE company who is also denying the patient care based on price. And you can't praise private sector health care but attack people with private, comprehensive health insurance. That's a part of the private system.
You've got this totally backwards: Medicaid and Medicare underpay doctors, hospitals and health care providers. Since they can't provide these services for free, they have to make up the difference through cost shifting (overcharging those who have insurance). As long as government is in the health care business, costs will continue to rise.
If you pay into the system then you deserve the service no matter how much it costs.
and the 'dollars that are being taken away from someone' are Goldman Sucks and JP Morgan who illicitly created trillions and trillions of worthless derivatives and credit-default swaps to be bailed out the expense of the elderly, poor and disabled.
She should've been granted the drug but let's not make this into something it's not.
She always had the rt in Oreg for assisted suicide.
She had advanced lung cancer & was given 4 months to live. In the last months the patient loses much weight & is coughing up blood. This drug is no cure but the claim is made that for some patients it might extend life for 1 or 2 months.
They just went ahead & bought the drug but it didn't help her & she died w/in 4 months. The Ins Co may have also denied.
Lets not make this into something its not? Im sorry no one has to make this into anything,
A panel of bureaucrats just drew the line in the sand and said No, you may have your qualms with the example, but an example of a principle is all it is, somewhere.. there's a line in the sand.
Ins Co's may have denied, but I doubt your gonna waste time comparing the ethical aspects of private entity rationing and government rationing?
i more or less agree with you, but "just drew a line in the sand"?! i'm pretty sure they're subject to well-established guidelines. it's not like they mull it over.
of course, commitment to a well funded, efficient public system, indifferent to profit margines, would be able to offer more substantial benefits. i think an "exhaust all means" clause should be included in healthcare. a shame that oregon doesn't have the resources in their current system to extend this benefit.
let's flip it around: even if the state were to approve payment for the treatment, they would still also offer to cover the cost of the other options, including the assisted suicide. and if the treatment were ultimately ineffective, they would again cover the cost of comfort care, and the option for assisted suicide.
Who the hell are you hopping from account to account trying really hard to refute every poster.
All you are is a condescending prick. This isn't a death panel and this isn't the first time a person has been refused coverage. If making a decision on weather to provide the funds or not to = a death panel then companies have been doing it for a long time now.
The people of Oregon voted to make physition assisted suicide leagal. The Oregon health plan is not a national system, its basic healthcare provided by a state that doesnt have alot of money. so this has nothing to do with Obama.
...."They just want control. We're going to take some of that back because people are sick of them representing themselvesrather than actually representing "WE THE PEOPLE" !! Every American should feel that way. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
how do you even begin to engage people like this?! oh, that's right; i don't really bother to try.
"theirs other ways !! theirs other ways !! gov't is overstepping their boundaries. The mainstream media lies and prefer to hop in bed with the white house rather than ask them real questions. We can all, probably agree, we need reform but nothing with the gov't involved. My daughter could use it, but i want nothing to do with a gov't healthcare.
it's too late to sign up. in fact, you'll have to spend time in one of our re-education camps if you ever hope to make it past your first death panel review.
You see it here on a small scale. A big scale to those who are close to her . Imagine this on a National level !! We just simply can't and won't let it happen. Everyone for this h.c. reform must think it can't happen to them or that the gov't will look out for them. They are just a number to the gov't why would they believe any different ?? "WE THE PEOPLE " will have to fight the fight till they come up with another option other than gov't run healthcare.Reform, not gov't reform !!
So, her real crime is that she was too lazy to get good health insurance. Insurance that would cover any and all expenses for her cancer. Damn lazy, no good, sponging off my tax dollar bitch!
I mean you still can have health insurance in Oregon, right...
no, it doesn't, as she is not required to commit suicide. in fact, the assisted suicide is just one of the many options that were offered to her, although that has been conveniently overlooked by those damned liberal msm. in fact, she has the right to seek private insurance. best of luck to her in that venture....
Oh yeah and the post office is 7 billion in debt and now they are laying off 30,000+ workers and closing hundreds of post offices due to gross mis-management but the guy who is the CEO still gets a huge multi-million dollar tax payer paid bonus for ruining the post office.
Yeah! government will do a great job taking over and managing the health care system!
whats the problem, we should applaud them for laying off 30k workers and where else have we seen CEOs making the big bucks while their company tanked, oh yea Wall Street.
I dont like govt run anything(even the army) but we shouldnt be criticising govt institutions trying to restructure especially the ones mandated in the constitution :)
I live in Oregon and this is old news..Our Oregon Health Plan which is what low income people can "try" to get on..(it's closed to enrollment right now) anyways some of the verbage is a bit old since this was written 15 years ago or so and needs to be updated..That is all.. There is no death panel or whatever the idiot who posted this is calling it.. It's just an old plan that needs to be updated due to the medication that lady wanted wasn't around when OHP was drafted..
The guy says they don't think about the money, but rather the time (and that the time equals money). This is the same double-talk express that Obama uses.
We are a country with government healthcare - it's called medicare. Obama's plan is not a single-payer option and the government doesn't own the hospitals either.
You're idiot. If an employer can pay a fine of $750 instead of carrying other insurance plans, why would they. Simple economics. Maybe that whole avoiding elementary school thing is getting in the way.
andrewh23 You obviously are a brain-dead Obama zombie. You clearly choose to ignore facts and past statements that Obama has made that he wants to turn our healthcare into a single-payer system.
You are also ignorant that medicare is a government run program - and it is broke, even after rationing healthcare services. Obama is going to do that with ALL forms of healthcare that will affect everybody; it will reduce our quality of healthcare and reduce the number of doctors.
KEvronius What an intelligent response. You must be another Obama zombie who thinks he's the almighty and locks himself in the closet with a picture of Obama and a bottle of lotion. You and the rest of the liberal loons just get orgasmic when you know that we finally have a president who is destroying our country and is following the same tactics as Hitler: taking control of our banks, car corporations, healthcare and anything else that can make the zombies dependent on the government.
You contemptible moron why are you such a gullible despicable coward. You should be ashamed of yourself you thick crybaby dupe. You're probably scared of electric lights and mobile phones too.
I wouldn't set foot in that primitive shithole, it's a third world country filled with criminals and halfwits. We have a real medical system in my country, and an educational system which doesn't leave 51% of people illiterate. I pity you and your lack of education and your fear.
nilbud You can't even name ONE accomplishment of Obama as a senator that qualifies him for president. You probably don't even know who the people are who shaped Obama's way of thinking: Frank Marshall Davis, Saul Alinsky, William Ayers and Bernadien Dohrne, the Woods Fund, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and how Obama & Ayers raised money for groups like ACORN that was supposed to go to schools.
You are another ignorant, brain-dead liberal who can't defend the idiot you put in the White House.
You are a subnormal moron a pathetic fear filled imbecile. Thankfully you'll never amount to anything and no one listens to you. Your incontinent fear is laughable you pathetic fucking dupe. Don't worry though your cowardly stupidity will keep you warm.
"Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society." (Washington Times)
John P. Holdren
Obama's 'Science Czar'
Stop frothing and wake up to who your leaders (D and R) really work for.....
ill give you a clue...
it aint you
you americans are so screwed, only God can help you know
ReadQuigley Have you seen the books that Holdren has written in the past? He thinks trees deserve more rights than people, he thinks the population needs to be controlled by putting chemicals in our drinking water, and thinks a baby is not human until they are 2 years old and that abortions till that age are fine. This is the man who was made our Science Czar and Presidential Science Advisor. Should that surprise anybody? Obama voted against BAIPA and favor of infanticide!
If you don't live in America and don't like it, why spend so much time discussing it? What business do you have lecturing us? Go take a hike. Enjoy Ireland or something. Leave us the hell alone.
It's amazing even though you are barely sentient and have difficulty with words and that you still imagine you can instruct me. It's quite fascinating sometimes to see how a broken mind works. It's awfully boring though, couldn't you attempt to think, as a dare maybe?
My little friend, now that I took a second look, you seem more than a little obsessed. "The degeneration of the US into moronville" is your hobby? Wow. You may need medical attention.
Let me guess. Unsatisfying love life? Boring job? General difficulties with interpersonal relations? Help me out here.
nilbud Every time you write down your thoughtless, uneducated, immature rants, you continue to show the world that the liberals are really brain-dead. You can't and WON'T back up the idiot YOU and the rest of the Obama zombies put in the White House who, instead of doing what's best for the country, has, in LESS THAN 6 MONTHS, put America into 40+ years in debt and is making a very strong effort to turn America into another 3rd world country - JUST LIKE IRELAND!
You might not have noticed 8 years of criminals in the whitehouse stealing all the money starting illegal wars committing war crimes and all that. Then they ran off without paying the bill and Obama has to do it. For even a fucking low grade moron such as yourself to think that was Obama's doing requires a level of delusion found only in the truly stupid. Y'fucking uneducated inbred savage. BTW Ireland has a much higher standard of living than your third world shithole. You know so little, tsk.
Why resort to cussing and name calling? Does it REALLY get your point across better? UK has the same health system Obama wants here. It's NOT great. Read up and you might think a bit differently. Last month a teenager was misdiagnosed with H1N1 and died because she actually had tonsillitis. In the UK they have "health hotlines" mainly because their health system is so far in the hole. Hotlines are being manned by people who are not qualified to give medical advice or prescribe medication.
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Amazing, what a pack of lies. Your health care system is a worldwide joke. The lies you so readily believe are just that. How fucking dumb are you? There is no such thing as a pre-existing condition in a real health system and a real health system doesn't put you out of your home. You want to be fucked over by a corporation because you have a very low intelligence.
Wow. You really DON'T know anything... it's not the HEALTH system putting people out of their homes. It's the fact that a bunch of irresponsible idiots took out adjustable rate mortgages that they COULDN'T afford. If you want a government to wipe your ass, great. But I don't. I don't want a government making decisions for me. Especially when it comes to my health. You, my friend, are the blinde one. Go on and comment back with your gibberish. Your idiot is showing. ;) Has been for a while...
You dolt you imagine having a profit making corporation making your health decisions for you is better than an elected government despite all the evidence. It's because you're subnormal. Your fake nonsense stories are just jokes to scare morons. Now read this slowly; adjustable rate mortgages are nothing to do with this, did you get that champ or do you need to read it again.
Why do you think having the government make the decision is better than make the decision yourself? Don't you realize that both the insurance companies (which are now promoting O-care) and the government are the bad guys? If we had real competition between health care providers and the real ability to choose between them, prices would come down. Think about it, why do vet services cost so little in comparison to human care? Because there are no insurance companies, and the customer chooses.
You're failing to grasp the reason for insurance. If you feel you can pay for everything yourself then you don't need insurance or government insurance you can just pony up the dough. If like most people you haven't got a spare $100,000 lying around then insurance is a good idea. You have insurance on your house don't you.
Bwa-ha-ha. Yeah, that's the answer, take your kids to the vet!
Prize for stupidest post on this board, and there are some pretty bad ones. Vet bills are usually lower because people don't do as much for their animals. Those people who do get chemo for a dog and give cats CAT scans spend about as much as humans do. AND when a pet gets sick people have them put down, but you don't like that idea for people.
@bmbirdsong and most vet services will push putting the animal down over expensive procedures, and most vet services are limited to pain meds, anti-biotics, and pulling the occasional foreign object out of a pets digestive tract. vet services are much easier than human services and the same level of patient care isnt needed. im sure if doctors could put their patients in a cage and turn off the lights and go home it would be a lot cheaper.
@tuseroni Don't think "pet vet" then, think large animal vet. I've known both pet vets and large animal vets, and the same holds true for both, neither is paid by an insurance company, the pet owner or the farmer must pay out of their own pocket, and make their own choices. My real point is that you and I are not the doctor's customers since we can't choose which doctor to see, and we don't pay the bills. An insurance company or the government is the customer, and the customer has the power.
Really?? WOW!!! You ARE a genius! OMG! All those facts to back up your assumptions and everything! ---You are the one who just blamed the housing crisis on our health care system! HA! I gave you facts and evidence. You came back with name calling AGAIN.
PWND.
I'll be choosing what I do with my body, thanks! You can be a government zombie since they know what's best for you. It's sad that you don't know what's best for yourself though.
You are really fucking stupid and in the same way as you can't understand a few simple posts I wrote you can't understand most things in life. You are a subnormal idiot.
Your incontinent fear is a product of your inability to comprehend basic everyday realities. In amny ways you are to be pitied, but not by me. I think you're a living joke.
Brush up on your reading skills pinhead and keep away from bright lights and strong flavors.
And misdiagnoses NEVER happen in the USA. Interesting that my fellow Americans like to tell the confused British how bad their health system is, when actually even Conservative politicians there would never dare propose a US type health system.
The UK is a democracy but they don't seem to be overturning that "horrible" healthcare system.
@EquestJess55 Here in Canada, there is a hotline aswell, called "info-santé" (ok, it's in Quebec, IDK how it is for the rest of Canada). The thing is, it's not for major cases where u have to go to the hospital. In fact, this is when u have a minor issue and don't want to go to the hospital for something that u might solve with a phone call.
UNICORNS ARE REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
luvitluvitbaby 2 months ago
am i the only person that actually wishes there WERE death panels in the health care plan?
why the fuck do we worry so much about spending tons of money to keep useless old people alive. seriously, what do they do?
complain about the weather.
form staunch, idiotic political views and make their families listen to them.
cause car crashes.
fund retarded churches w/ their social security checks.
lecture everyone on how they should live.
watch reruns of Golden Girls.
etc.
UltraProle21 3 months ago
Death panels are not just a political fetish of conservatives. We will have to have a serious conversation about death in this nation. We can't afford the unlimited demands of the elderly to extend their lives for a few more months at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars. At some point, we have to say: "That's enough. It's time to let nature take its course and just die with peace."
tbsla13 6 months ago
Key indicators are terms like "death panels" to describe medical decisions on patient care, and questioning regarding the cost of health care without asking if this was a factor in the decision as is always is the case w. private health insurance.
BrianMarlatt 1 year ago
Relief of pain at end of life is not euthanasia.
At what cost do those who put profit over patients force us to pay, at what cost of pain, suffering and death when their profits are foremost; and how do we hold such people accountable.
Publicly funded doctors should make medical decisions, not accountants
BrianMarlatt 1 year ago
This "news" item is likely generated by the pharmaceutical company referenced and private insurance companies who oppose public health insurance. It is in their financial interest to exploit patient fear for private profit.
Key indicators are terms like "death panels" to describe medical decisions on patient care, and questioning regarding the cost of health care without asking if this was a factor in the decision as is always is the case w. private health insurance.
BrianMarlatt 1 year ago
this is old news. This story is from either 07 or 08, this lady died in 08, and this is a result of public healthcare in Oregon that went into effect in 1993
JWillisBand 1 year ago
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slonerider777 1 year ago
Will private insurance companies pay for experimental treatments? I really doubt it.!!!
bogdanmil 1 year ago
Wow, you guys need a national health service.
In the UK, Euthanasia and assisted suicide is illegal, simple as. And the majority of illnesses are covered free of charge. For those which are not there are hundreds of charities willing to support a patient.
Trustisaliability 1 year ago
Government is wonderful, they'll help you commit suicide and call it comfort care. How much longer are people going to take this crap? These bureaucrats that get paid over 100k a year need to be rid of, we don't need them, but they defend their position with their bullshit.
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noBS4u1 1 year ago
yeah.i am on medicaid.they will pay for 5000$ worth of useless prescriptions i dont want,attempting to insist with mental health meds.they will not provide access to ANY alternative treatments ie:chiropractic,acupunture,massage therapy,herbal meds for those sensitive to synthetics.dental wise,they only offer murcury/amalgam fillings and wont remove them for those mercury poisoned.they wont provide heavymetal toxicity tests to provePoisoning either,#1cause of fibromyalgia &chronicFatigue syndrome
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slonerider777 1 year ago
isn't it ironic that the same baby boomers that fought for the right to kill there baby in the womb now face death panels because there are not enough young working people to pay for thier health care?
seaohnyc 1 year ago 4
@seaohnyc Whose dying? If you don't want to worry about the govenment running out of funds USE YOUR PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANY. Its not like it doesn't exist anymore. Isn't the only thing different is that people without private insurance don't have a 100% chance of dying.
ryukXsayu27 1 year ago
@ryukXsayu27 WHOS DYING did you wacth the video ????? oregon told her they would pay for her suicide but not medication to save her!! besides the point of Obama xcare is to rid the system of priviate insurance.
seaohnyc 1 year ago
@seaohnyc I do think the Oregon system is messed up, covering comfort and asassisted suicide instead of treatment. But, "the point of Obama xcare is to rid the system of private insurance" is completely made up. This ain't East Germany, nobody's dying.
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slonerider777 1 year ago
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slonerider777 1 year ago
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slonerider777 1 year ago
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slonerider777 1 year ago
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slonerider777 1 year ago
"Unable to approve"? The hell kind of statement is that? In socialized medical systems, there's no question of treatment ever being denied versus approved. Now Americans think this is what socialized healthcare is. Great.
Gnickk 1 year ago
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slonerider777 1 year ago
The fact is, the U.S. has the most expensive health care system on the planet earth.
Life expectancy in The U.S. has plummeted... and it is because of our failed health care system.
Universal Health care has been tested many, many times and has been shown to be both more effective and more efficient than the system we have in this country.
insurance companies deny coverage all the time. They not only deny coverage, but drop people when they get sick.
TheCycad 1 year ago
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slonerider777 1 year ago
DEATH PANELS SUCK!
TedVoron 1 year ago
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@TedVoron
They would if they were REAL!
TheCycad 1 year ago
you people realize private insurance companies have been having "death panels" for decades. the deny care all the time to make a few extra bucks. herp derp free market! herp de derp.
bobbybenjamin 1 year ago
see healthcare link at IDIOTS4OBAMA COM. radicals like Obama, have always been for death panels. Just like Margeret Sangor was for exterminating black babies. Wake up you naive retards, read the fucking bill yourself ya lazy vermin Obama supporters.
IdiotsForObamaCom 1 year ago
@4jayeP is a total troll who just got OWNED. lol anyone who reads the comments know I did not say for anyone to stop paying there insurance , I said ( if ) everyone stopped paying
erwintipton 1 year ago 2
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slonerider777 1 year ago
You know if everyone in the united states took a stand all at the same time and didnt pay the insurance for one month, it would put the insurance companys in such a bind they would have to lower cost and be more reasonable ,If they dont have the money they dont have the power.
erwintipton 1 year ago 2
@erwintipton what you are suggesting is pure insanity. If you think your idea is so great why don't you lead the way and stop paying on YOUR insurance.
4JayeP 1 year ago
@4JayeP LOL.. your funny ,,,,,,You probly own or work for a health insurance company.
erwintipton 1 year ago
@erwintipton You won't follow your own advice? That's brave. Tell everyone else what THEY should do, but won't do it yourself.
4JayeP 1 year ago
@4JayeP Hey dumb shit, Did I say for everyone to stop paying ,,No I didnt , I said (IF) everyone stoped paying, Get your facts strait, Your nothing more than a stupid troller and everyone reading your comments on my comments know its
erwintipton 1 year ago 2
@erwintipton ...and I quote " if everyone in the united states took a stand all at the same time and didnt pay the insurance for one month" eat shit buddy. You've just been owned.
4JayeP 1 year ago
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@4JayeP You eat shit , . You just made an ass out of yourself , You quoted the comment I made ,( If )You are the troll who just got owned .
erwintipton 1 year ago
Did anyone else notice how Dr. Saha (sp?) looks up and to the left when he responds? It makes me question his honesty or at the very least his uncertainty of "how do I answer this question without sounding like a heartless bureacrat?". His answer to the follow-up question seems to support that he was desperately trying not to appear mercenary, although that is certainly the nature of the policy he is articulating.
supercharger64 1 year ago
@supercharger64 it is a kinda heartless proceedings health care...just in general. these "death councils" as people call them are common place in EVERY insurance company. someone somewhere has to take a statistical probability of your survival, the amount of money you pay a month, the overall budget, and the aggregate cost of the procedure and churn out through some mathematical function whether or not they will cover you.
tuseroni 1 year ago
shes old who gives a fuck let her die!
cozzycovers 1 year ago
@cozzycovers I doubt that you would say that if it was someone you loved. But perhaps you don't have anyone you love.... sad.
supercharger64 1 year ago
Denying people health insurance means denying them proper health care.
Health insurance reform means that American families will no longer be denied health insurance.
ReliableInsider 1 year ago
The alternative to suicide is to provide hard-working families whose employers do not provide any medical benefits with the help they need to be able to afford to buy their own private-sector health insurance.
That is the plan that was passed by the Democrats.
The Republican prefer simply to deny American families insurance. Denying people insurance means denying them health care. The entire Republican National Committee has become a giant death panel.
ReliableInsider 1 year ago
Suicide goes against God, and it's a sin. So true christians will not do it..
littletiger2020 1 year ago
@littletiger2020 Fine, but can the rest of us have the option? I'm not saying we'll all take it, but we have the OPTION.
Dhesyca 1 year ago
i hope that fucker that says that treatment is too expensive gets cancer or better than that a loved one. let him sit there and explain to his family that i am sorry the state doesnt think that you are worth saving. and let him sit there and watch them suffer. maybe then he can swallow that shit he was spitting out and say i am sorry to the woman that he refuses to get help for and when he swallows that shit then he can lean over kiss his loved one and then pull the plug
fishininthesouth 2 years ago
@fishininthesouth Health care is a scarce resource. It will always be rationed. Right now it is rationed by private insurance companies.
Is this really so difficult to understand? Either way, the net result is that in countries with socialized health care and end of life counseling, average lifespans are longer, so clearly old people are not being put to death.
BenkaiDebussy 1 year ago
backdoorlemur is absolutely right on!
Cost shifting is done in many areas. ( assisted living and full care home for example).
lawzieme 2 years ago
It looks like Democrats and Obama want to do nationally what they do in Oregon. Sarah was right after all
xpandergt 2 years ago
And what is wrong with that. I dont think americans actually oppose Death panels, I just think they want to be in control of it. You guys do know money doesnt grow on trees. It has to come from somewhere and tough decisions have to be made unnlike the medicare system which generally approves every treatment regardless of ability to pay.
Death panel exist in the real world and as long as resources are limited, they will continue to exist
uche007us 2 years ago
More wingnut garbage, taken out of context. Notice how the video starts? Half way. More Faux News tricks. Don't be fooled by the crazy's! They're afraid of losing the money that the insurance companies are lining their pockets with by denying care to millions of folks. They are the REAL death panels. The greedy: those that love money, which are the root of all evil.
hardknoxfirst 2 years ago
go take your commie ass elsewhere.
bslater0006 2 years ago
You really gotta sit down and learn some economics.
1- The companies get money because THE GOVERNMENT HANDS IT OUT.
2-If you reduce the cost of something, demand goes up, and so will prices - In this case health care. Health insurance is at base a flawed system.
3-Profits aren't evil - they show people where production/services are needed.
4-Gov't takes each dollar it spends from someone else. Gov't Hlth. Ins. is an inefficient version of people just saving up their money.
evangrogers 2 years ago
god help us all! obama is going to destroy the world! repent!
somonesetusupthebomb 2 years ago
There is no difference in BHO health care plan, Section 1233 of HR 3200, which pays doctors to get rid of the old and sick to save money by badgering them to choose hospice care or assisted suicide and the T4 program that paid doctors to fill out each questionnaire on their patients they reviewed. Doctors in Germany could earn up to $70 in 1940 US dollars for this patriotic duty.
cupera1 2 years ago
Hmmm. I'd just like to point out that this is the kind of thing Obama wants to fix--it's not what he's working toward.
piscesvirgo 2 years ago
Check out an actual interview I posted on my page.
victormisrock 2 years ago
Death Panels ARE real!
victormisrock 2 years ago
70th percent of every healthcare cost is spent by people 65yrs and older and its all thanks to medicare and the free spending US govt. I say put the damn death panel in, right now 90yrs old are getting hip replacements, heart surgeries.... I say if you are that old and need those treatment then pay for it yourself dont stop and stealing from the youth for your cadilliac socialist healthcare
uche007us 2 years ago
i hope that someone in your family needs treatment and you can tell them that they are too damn old to save and kiss your grandad good by tell him he lived his life and now you have to die. or either you need a transplant and you can tell your self that it is ok. i wouldnt want any money spent on me. fuck it let me die yea not ever seeing my family again would be a great thing. when your mom or dad gets cancer tell them ol well i wanted obama and i got what i wanted. so fuck off and die
fishininthesouth 2 years ago
Death Panels are REAL.
victormisrock 2 years ago
This is FAR less than what people claim-
1- Oregon has Phys Assist suicide, no other state does and the health reform plan does not propose it
2- She's on state medical insurance, which is to say PRIVATE INSURANCE ALREADY TOLD HER THEY'D RATHER SHE DIE THAN COVER HER.
3- Post the rates that patients in other states or other insurance plans pay for this medication before saying it proves the "deth panels"
TrevorALan 2 years ago
We already have death panels. We call them health insurance companies.
AtlasShruggery 2 years ago 2
Dillon X was right. There was no cure for this cancer, and what the state said was that they would not pay for the false hope offered by the doctor with this drug. I agree that doing this in a letter is inhumane. Ms. Wagner's doctor should have stepped up to the plate and been more honest with her.
sjm11597 2 years ago
"give her the medication without charging her"
Public sector: Fail
Private sector: Win
youneverheard 2 years ago 2
Not sure what you mean, but if she's on medicaid, private insurance and drug companies have already decided they'd rather she die.
TrevorALan 2 years ago
Public sector: "We choose not to pay for needed Chemotherapy drugs"
Private sector: "We will provide the needed drugs at no charge"
The problem here is not lack of insurance; it is that all of us with insurance bid the price of health care up because we don't have to pay for it. If we were allowed by our government to purchase actual health insurance, this would not be an issue.
Public sector: Fail
Private sector: Win
youneverheard 2 years ago
Not sure what you mean by your post, but if the private sector would pay for that medicine, there wouldn't be a problem. The whole problem here is the private sector charges too much for the medicine, and the government has a limited budget because taxpayers don't want to pay for more. Private insurance companies do too.
But as I heard the story nobody actually told this woman she should take her own life, that is just something invented by the reporter's reading of various laws.
TrevorALan 2 years ago
Why do health care providers charge too much?
youneverheard 2 years ago
Well, "too much" can be a relative term. But most sectors of the health service economy want to make a profit. To be fair, the health business does have high overhead so it will never be cheap.
If you work for a company that pays well, has a good insurance plan, and you are relatively healthy, health care is NOT too expensive. Get laid off, or your company changes plans, or get a serious illness so you both rack up big bills and have to quit work, and it can QUICKLY get unfordable.
TrevorALan 2 years ago
There are many reasons health care providers charge what they do. They do not simply meet and say "we want to make 30% more profit this year." They charge more because their costs go up. Insurance companies, in turn, charge more because their costs go up. We, the consumers of health care, must then pay more because, if we want the service provided, we must cover the costs incurred by those who provide it, or it will not be provided.
youneverheard 2 years ago
The reason that health care costs go up at a rate higher than inflation is people with a good insurance plan, like yours. People with "good" insurance do not ever face a significant health bill that they must pay. Therefore, the demand for this service is artificially stimulated by an apparent zero-cost. This increased demand in turn raises prices. People who must pay medical bills out of pocket are left in the lurch and must pay the full price.
youneverheard 2 years ago
Yes there are many reasons health care costs go up. But you cannot simply cast a government insurance plan that decides it cannot pay a certain cost as the bad guy without acknowledging that this cost was created by a PRIVATE company who is also denying the patient care based on price. And you can't praise private sector health care but attack people with private, comprehensive health insurance. That's a part of the private system.
TrevorALan 2 years ago
You've got this totally backwards: Medicaid and Medicare underpay doctors, hospitals and health care providers. Since they can't provide these services for free, they have to make up the difference through cost shifting (overcharging those who have insurance). As long as government is in the health care business, costs will continue to rise.
backdoorlemur 2 years ago
Trust G O D not g o v.
DigitalPraise7 2 years ago 2
Chemo does not heal cancer.
There are many ways to heal the disease without expensive drugs.
Check out my channel page for more details.
HealthRanger7 2 years ago
Obama: "But there are no death panels in the bill." What a fucking liar this fool is!
allbymyself27 2 years ago
Yep, Obama lied to all of his supporters during the campaign, the inauguration, and he lied during his speech to the House and Senate last night.
MyFreedomChannel 2 years ago
If you pay into the system then you deserve the service no matter how much it costs.
and the 'dollars that are being taken away from someone' are Goldman Sucks and JP Morgan who illicitly created trillions and trillions of worthless derivatives and credit-default swaps to be bailed out the expense of the elderly, poor and disabled.
genius2005 2 years ago
"genius"
Not so much.
kechallis 2 years ago
She should've been granted the drug but let's not make this into something it's not.
She always had the rt in Oreg for assisted suicide.
She had advanced lung cancer & was given 4 months to live. In the last months the patient loses much weight & is coughing up blood. This drug is no cure but the claim is made that for some patients it might extend life for 1 or 2 months.
They just went ahead & bought the drug but it didn't help her & she died w/in 4 months. The Ins Co may have also denied.
DillonX 2 years ago
Lets not make this into something its not? Im sorry no one has to make this into anything,
A panel of bureaucrats just drew the line in the sand and said No, you may have your qualms with the example, but an example of a principle is all it is, somewhere.. there's a line in the sand.
Ins Co's may have denied, but I doubt your gonna waste time comparing the ethical aspects of private entity rationing and government rationing?
mctarmac10 2 years ago
i more or less agree with you, but "just drew a line in the sand"?! i'm pretty sure they're subject to well-established guidelines. it's not like they mull it over.
of course, commitment to a well funded, efficient public system, indifferent to profit margines, would be able to offer more substantial benefits. i think an "exhaust all means" clause should be included in healthcare. a shame that oregon doesn't have the resources in their current system to extend this benefit.
KEvron.
KEvronius 2 years ago
let's flip it around: even if the state were to approve payment for the treatment, they would still also offer to cover the cost of the other options, including the assisted suicide. and if the treatment were ultimately ineffective, they would again cover the cost of comfort care, and the option for assisted suicide.
BIG FUCKING RED HERRING, DAMNED "LIBERAL" MEDIA!
KEvron
KEvronius 2 years ago
Who the hell are you hopping from account to account trying really hard to refute every poster.
All you are is a condescending prick. This isn't a death panel and this isn't the first time a person has been refused coverage. If making a decision on weather to provide the funds or not to = a death panel then companies have been doing it for a long time now.
KrasnayaArmada 2 years ago 2
i am KEvron.
i know it's not a death panel.
KEvron
KEvronius 2 years ago
Don't mind the account thing my eyes are screwing with me, either way you are a prick.
KrasnayaArmada 2 years ago
my cross to bear.
KEvron
KEvronius 2 years ago
perhaps you had better read my comments a little more closely.
KEvron
KEvronius 2 years ago
The people of Oregon voted to make physition assisted suicide leagal. The Oregon health plan is not a national system, its basic healthcare provided by a state that doesnt have alot of money. so this has nothing to do with Obama.
shonspirulina 2 years ago
...."They just want control. We're going to take some of that back because people are sick of them representing themselvesrather than actually representing "WE THE PEOPLE" !! Every American should feel that way. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
how do you even begin to engage people like this?! oh, that's right; i don't really bother to try.
KEvron
KEvronius 2 years ago
ksp0520 sent me this message:
"theirs other ways !! theirs other ways !! gov't is overstepping their boundaries. The mainstream media lies and prefer to hop in bed with the white house rather than ask them real questions. We can all, probably agree, we need reform but nothing with the gov't involved. My daughter could use it, but i want nothing to do with a gov't healthcare.
cont.
KEvronius 2 years ago
oregon state law was inacted before obama
this is not new it's just now comming to light more because of the health care reform bill
obama did not make this law in oregon
i'm not on board with the healthcare plan
but come on lets not take tings out of context
sexyYTuser 2 years ago
Democrats----the party of abortion on demand and assisted suicide, death panels, etc.
alas the Death Party!
"Where do I sign up"
carrie0123210 2 years ago
it's too late to sign up. in fact, you'll have to spend time in one of our re-education camps if you ever hope to make it past your first death panel review.
KEvron.
KEvronius 2 years ago
You see it here on a small scale. A big scale to those who are close to her . Imagine this on a National level !! We just simply can't and won't let it happen. Everyone for this h.c. reform must think it can't happen to them or that the gov't will look out for them. They are just a number to the gov't why would they believe any different ?? "WE THE PEOPLE " will have to fight the fight till they come up with another option other than gov't run healthcare.Reform, not gov't reform !!
KSP0520 2 years ago
yes!!1! WE THE PEOPLE prefer to go without any coverage at all!!one!
it's red dawn, mutherfuckers!!pwn!
KEvron
KEvronius 2 years ago
So, her real crime is that she was too lazy to get good health insurance. Insurance that would cover any and all expenses for her cancer. Damn lazy, no good, sponging off my tax dollar bitch!
I mean you still can have health insurance in Oregon, right...
kechallis 2 years ago
I have thought of oregon as kind for allowing assisted suicide, if you wanted it..
but looks like the sword cuts both ways...
hurchel 2 years ago
no, it doesn't, as she is not required to commit suicide. in fact, the assisted suicide is just one of the many options that were offered to her, although that has been conveniently overlooked by those damned liberal msm. in fact, she has the right to seek private insurance. best of luck to her in that venture....
KEvron
KEvronius 2 years ago
yep, it'd have been better if this lady had no coverage at all. that way, she could die a slow, painful death.
KEvron, death panelist
KEvronius 2 years ago
now we're killin' our aged and infirmed..?
where does it stop..? after the sick are gone, who's next on their list..? the blind, the deaf, the brown eyed people, the left-handed people..?
Dewdaahman 2 years ago
No - we're not. The only thing dead or dying here is your brain.
andrewh23 2 years ago
Let's put the paranoid at the top of the list....
kechallis 2 years ago
this is sick..
Dewdaahman 2 years ago
How is this sick? money doesnt grow on trees you know. This is exactly what private insurance companies have been doing to stay in business.
I wonder if medicare wouldnt be in the red if folks didnt go belly aching everytime care is denied.
Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die
uche007us 2 years ago
Oh yeah and the post office is 7 billion in debt and now they are laying off 30,000+ workers and closing hundreds of post offices due to gross mis-management but the guy who is the CEO still gets a huge multi-million dollar tax payer paid bonus for ruining the post office.
Yeah! government will do a great job taking over and managing the health care system!
NewChristianSoldiers 2 years ago
whats the problem, we should applaud them for laying off 30k workers and where else have we seen CEOs making the big bucks while their company tanked, oh yea Wall Street.
I dont like govt run anything(even the army) but we shouldnt be criticising govt institutions trying to restructure especially the ones mandated in the constitution :)
uche007us 2 years ago
I live in Oregon and this is old news..Our Oregon Health Plan which is what low income people can "try" to get on..(it's closed to enrollment right now) anyways some of the verbage is a bit old since this was written 15 years ago or so and needs to be updated..That is all.. There is no death panel or whatever the idiot who posted this is calling it.. It's just an old plan that needs to be updated due to the medication that lady wanted wasn't around when OHP was drafted..
fuckbush01 2 years ago
The guy says they don't think about the money, but rather the time (and that the time equals money). This is the same double-talk express that Obama uses.
Thisisnotmyrealname8 2 years ago
Lawsuits.
Lawsuits.
Lawsuits!!!
We are all paying for the mega-million dollar Lawsuits that Lawyers have waged against the Medical Industry.
Everyone from Bandaid Makers to ER Doctors are afraid of being sued.
So they pay milliions for Ins...and pass on that cost to Us, the people.
Countries with Govt-Healthcare have had to put Limits on Lawsuits...*after* they took over Healthcare.
Let's go straight to that step!
Ration the Lawyers...not the people.
We need Tort Reform, not a Takeover.
SeekerNLife 2 years ago 2
We are a country with government healthcare - it's called medicare. Obama's plan is not a single-payer option and the government doesn't own the hospitals either.
andrewh23 2 years ago
"We are a country with government healthcare - it's called medicare."
Bad example, andrewh23.
Medicare is broke...and it already has forms of rationing, in 90 day limits and maximum benefit limits.
SeekerNLife 2 years ago 2
@andyheblu23dudes
You're idiot. If an employer can pay a fine of $750 instead of carrying other insurance plans, why would they. Simple economics. Maybe that whole avoiding elementary school thing is getting in the way.
get2djnow 2 years ago
andrewh23 You obviously are a brain-dead Obama zombie. You clearly choose to ignore facts and past statements that Obama has made that he wants to turn our healthcare into a single-payer system.
You are also ignorant that medicare is a government run program - and it is broke, even after rationing healthcare services. Obama is going to do that with ALL forms of healthcare that will affect everybody; it will reduce our quality of healthcare and reduce the number of doctors.
ccgraphics20 2 years ago
and there is nothing you can do about it, so shut the fuck up and stay out of the way.
KEvron
KEvronius 2 years ago
KEvronius What an intelligent response. You must be another Obama zombie who thinks he's the almighty and locks himself in the closet with a picture of Obama and a bottle of lotion. You and the rest of the liberal loons just get orgasmic when you know that we finally have a president who is destroying our country and is following the same tactics as Hitler: taking control of our banks, car corporations, healthcare and anything else that can make the zombies dependent on the government.
ccgraphics20 2 years ago
i must be, and there's not a god damned thing you can do about it. now stay out of the way lest you get trampled under foot.
donate to orly.
KEvron
KEvronius 2 years ago
You contemptible moron why are you such a gullible despicable coward. You should be ashamed of yourself you thick crybaby dupe. You're probably scared of electric lights and mobile phones too.
nilbud 2 years ago
better move to the US before we go to your system of health care - so we can take care of you( we have great mental heath care here too!)
lenny380 2 years ago
I wouldn't set foot in that primitive shithole, it's a third world country filled with criminals and halfwits. We have a real medical system in my country, and an educational system which doesn't leave 51% of people illiterate. I pity you and your lack of education and your fear.
nilbud 2 years ago
nilbud You can't even name ONE accomplishment of Obama as a senator that qualifies him for president. You probably don't even know who the people are who shaped Obama's way of thinking: Frank Marshall Davis, Saul Alinsky, William Ayers and Bernadien Dohrne, the Woods Fund, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and how Obama & Ayers raised money for groups like ACORN that was supposed to go to schools.
You are another ignorant, brain-dead liberal who can't defend the idiot you put in the White House.
ccgraphics20 2 years ago
You are a subnormal moron a pathetic fear filled imbecile. Thankfully you'll never amount to anything and no one listens to you. Your incontinent fear is laughable you pathetic fucking dupe. Don't worry though your cowardly stupidity will keep you warm.
nilbud 2 years ago
Nixon was Irish wasn't he? He was a smart guy though.
lenny380 2 years ago
Nixon wasn't Irish he was a criminal. JFK was Irish.
nilbud 2 years ago
"Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society." (Washington Times)
John P. Holdren
Obama's 'Science Czar'
Stop frothing and wake up to who your leaders (D and R) really work for.....
ill give you a clue...
it aint you
you americans are so screwed, only God can help you know
ReadQuigley 2 years ago
ReadQuigley Have you seen the books that Holdren has written in the past? He thinks trees deserve more rights than people, he thinks the population needs to be controlled by putting chemicals in our drinking water, and thinks a baby is not human until they are 2 years old and that abortions till that age are fine. This is the man who was made our Science Czar and Presidential Science Advisor. Should that surprise anybody? Obama voted against BAIPA and favor of infanticide!
ccgraphics20 2 years ago
hey cc
No I havent read any of his books actually, I think they would make me sick
Its so sad that well meaning but otherwise oblivious people can be conned by the charisma of such a puppet
He has surrounded is admin with CFR,Trilateral and Bilderberg members.
Every American for the sake of keeping their country should know who these organizations are and who is behind them, therein lies your problem;
Globalism (the masons new order)
Ordo ab chao
obamas task is to tank your nation!
ReadQuigley 2 years ago
Don't insult me by calling me american.
nilbud 2 years ago
How classy of you. Wow.
If you don't live in America and don't like it, why spend so much time discussing it? What business do you have lecturing us? Go take a hike. Enjoy Ireland or something. Leave us the hell alone.
TheLegalImmigrant05 2 years ago
Fuck off dummy, get an education.
nilbud 2 years ago
Again, classy
Let me repeat: Go mind your own damn business and stop lecturing us on how to live our lives and what to do with our country. Post about your own.
TheLegalImmigrant05 2 years ago
It's amazing even though you are barely sentient and have difficulty with words and that you still imagine you can instruct me. It's quite fascinating sometimes to see how a broken mind works. It's awfully boring though, couldn't you attempt to think, as a dare maybe?
nilbud 2 years ago
My little friend, now that I took a second look, you seem more than a little obsessed. "The degeneration of the US into moronville" is your hobby? Wow. You may need medical attention.
Let me guess. Unsatisfying love life? Boring job? General difficulties with interpersonal relations? Help me out here.
TheLegalImmigrant05 2 years ago
Now I realise you get this all the time but, damn you are fucking boring.
nilbud 2 years ago
How witty of you - again!! You are outdoing yourself.
P.S. My money is on unsatisfying love life, but I have been wrong before
TheLegalImmigrant05 2 years ago
God can't even help them now!
buddcinder 2 years ago
nilbud Every time you write down your thoughtless, uneducated, immature rants, you continue to show the world that the liberals are really brain-dead. You can't and WON'T back up the idiot YOU and the rest of the Obama zombies put in the White House who, instead of doing what's best for the country, has, in LESS THAN 6 MONTHS, put America into 40+ years in debt and is making a very strong effort to turn America into another 3rd world country - JUST LIKE IRELAND!
ccgraphics20 2 years ago
You might not have noticed 8 years of criminals in the whitehouse stealing all the money starting illegal wars committing war crimes and all that. Then they ran off without paying the bill and Obama has to do it. For even a fucking low grade moron such as yourself to think that was Obama's doing requires a level of delusion found only in the truly stupid. Y'fucking uneducated inbred savage. BTW Ireland has a much higher standard of living than your third world shithole. You know so little, tsk.
nilbud 2 years ago
Why resort to cussing and name calling? Does it REALLY get your point across better? UK has the same health system Obama wants here. It's NOT great. Read up and you might think a bit differently. Last month a teenager was misdiagnosed with H1N1 and died because she actually had tonsillitis. In the UK they have "health hotlines" mainly because their health system is so far in the hole. Hotlines are being manned by people who are not qualified to give medical advice or prescribe medication.
EquestJess55 2 years ago 7
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Amazing, what a pack of lies. Your health care system is a worldwide joke. The lies you so readily believe are just that. How fucking dumb are you? There is no such thing as a pre-existing condition in a real health system and a real health system doesn't put you out of your home. You want to be fucked over by a corporation because you have a very low intelligence.
nilbud 2 years ago
Wow. You really DON'T know anything... it's not the HEALTH system putting people out of their homes. It's the fact that a bunch of irresponsible idiots took out adjustable rate mortgages that they COULDN'T afford. If you want a government to wipe your ass, great. But I don't. I don't want a government making decisions for me. Especially when it comes to my health. You, my friend, are the blinde one. Go on and comment back with your gibberish. Your idiot is showing. ;) Has been for a while...
EquestJess55 2 years ago
You dolt you imagine having a profit making corporation making your health decisions for you is better than an elected government despite all the evidence. It's because you're subnormal. Your fake nonsense stories are just jokes to scare morons. Now read this slowly; adjustable rate mortgages are nothing to do with this, did you get that champ or do you need to read it again.
You're a very slow individual.
nilbud 2 years ago
Why do you think having the government make the decision is better than make the decision yourself? Don't you realize that both the insurance companies (which are now promoting O-care) and the government are the bad guys? If we had real competition between health care providers and the real ability to choose between them, prices would come down. Think about it, why do vet services cost so little in comparison to human care? Because there are no insurance companies, and the customer chooses.
bmbirdsong 2 years ago 9
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EquestJess55 2 years ago
You're failing to grasp the reason for insurance. If you feel you can pay for everything yourself then you don't need insurance or government insurance you can just pony up the dough. If like most people you haven't got a spare $100,000 lying around then insurance is a good idea. You have insurance on your house don't you.
nilbud 2 years ago
Bwa-ha-ha. Yeah, that's the answer, take your kids to the vet!
Prize for stupidest post on this board, and there are some pretty bad ones. Vet bills are usually lower because people don't do as much for their animals. Those people who do get chemo for a dog and give cats CAT scans spend about as much as humans do. AND when a pet gets sick people have them put down, but you don't like that idea for people.
TrevorALan 2 years ago
@bmbirdsong and most vet services will push putting the animal down over expensive procedures, and most vet services are limited to pain meds, anti-biotics, and pulling the occasional foreign object out of a pets digestive tract. vet services are much easier than human services and the same level of patient care isnt needed. im sure if doctors could put their patients in a cage and turn off the lights and go home it would be a lot cheaper.
tuseroni 1 year ago
@tuseroni Don't think "pet vet" then, think large animal vet. I've known both pet vets and large animal vets, and the same holds true for both, neither is paid by an insurance company, the pet owner or the farmer must pay out of their own pocket, and make their own choices. My real point is that you and I are not the doctor's customers since we can't choose which doctor to see, and we don't pay the bills. An insurance company or the government is the customer, and the customer has the power.
bmbirdsong 1 year ago
Really?? WOW!!! You ARE a genius! OMG! All those facts to back up your assumptions and everything! ---You are the one who just blamed the housing crisis on our health care system! HA! I gave you facts and evidence. You came back with name calling AGAIN.
PWND.
I'll be choosing what I do with my body, thanks! You can be a government zombie since they know what's best for you. It's sad that you don't know what's best for yourself though.
EquestJess55 2 years ago
You are really fucking stupid and in the same way as you can't understand a few simple posts I wrote you can't understand most things in life. You are a subnormal idiot.
Your incontinent fear is a product of your inability to comprehend basic everyday realities. In amny ways you are to be pitied, but not by me. I think you're a living joke.
Brush up on your reading skills pinhead and keep away from bright lights and strong flavors.
nilbud 2 years ago
Also... if you don't believe me. GOOGLE it. These are reports straight out of the UK!!! Just facts my friend. Facts are very important.
EquestJess55 2 years ago
And misdiagnoses NEVER happen in the USA. Interesting that my fellow Americans like to tell the confused British how bad their health system is, when actually even Conservative politicians there would never dare propose a US type health system.
The UK is a democracy but they don't seem to be overturning that "horrible" healthcare system.
TrevorALan 2 years ago
@EquestJess55 Here in Canada, there is a hotline aswell, called "info-santé" (ok, it's in Quebec, IDK how it is for the rest of Canada). The thing is, it's not for major cases where u have to go to the hospital. In fact, this is when u have a minor issue and don't want to go to the hospital for something that u might solve with a phone call.
rolingpingu 1 year ago
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slonerider777 1 year ago
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@rolingpingu RUN FROM THE CURE - Full Version watch?v=0psJhQHk_GI
slonerider777 1 year ago
ya they don't think about it - OK
lenny380 2 years ago
there you go America - that great care coming your way very fast - don't be fooled.
lenny380 2 years ago 3