Letters from Ted Kaczynski (1/2)

[urkoil]

i hate when the title is in english and the video is in german....

[Murmillo1]

German Docus are good - not only because I'm German.

[gustavfinnspinderson]

this voice makes me sick

[jkenney2]

@vaahti Thanks.

[jkenney2]

Does anyone know the title of thag song?  It sounds like Tom Jones singing but I'm not sure.

[vaahti]

@jkenney2 Chumbawamba - Timebomb. The clip where the song is heard is from the film "Breaking the Spell".

[PaulAndThePattuccis]

@jkenney2 must be the tiger, but google says no. wtf. which version is it?

[Wiebelo]

He has no time to write, but he does have time to write in german?

[chadd990]

@Redbullskull

i'd say he won that fight! or, is slowly turning the tables. pol pot only cared about the space those large computers were taking, if he were alive today, he'd love our hand held pocket rocket cell phones! they didn't have those back in the 19th century. at least he lived long enough to witness the internets. I think he bought stocks in ebay, which mainly focused on the trading of slaves back then. he was racist.

[Redbullskull]

hes not original. there has been sb with a similar idea before : Pol Pot

killed 1/3 of his own people in his fight against technology

[gracer99]

@Redbullskull what a stupid comment. he never claims to be original. his contribution is to re-synthesize and re-articulate in a lucid and logical way.

[returnoftheramble3]

i will offer my body to destroy any aspect of this world. america needs some terrorism to clean the perosnality hue.

[cobalt100]

Ted retired from his profession in 1996 and is living in a gated community in Florence, CO. He has servants, cooks and plenty of time to write manifestos.

[gwhendri]

I am lord Kalki and I am going to bust his ass out of prison. I am going to be taking hostages and defaming them in their media.

[vaahti]

@gwhendri

If I was Lord Kalki, I wouldn't tell about my plans in advance.

[returnoftheramble3]

@gwhendri kalki is a trick because it's actually kali from the heart that ends the world because she is the disease that's unattended with Tix'et in camps. katun's fold is almost ended with the children of to all be slaughtered because they are not perfect.

[Mefisto1mced]

How can one get in contact with mr. Kaczynski, as Herr Dammbeck did?....i believe it would be a great pleausere for many of the peolple here, to at least being able to send him a letter...

[vaahti]

@Mefisto1mced

Apparently, his adress is:

Theodore Kaczynski

USP FLORENCE ADMAX

U.S. PENITENTIARY

PO BOX 8500

FLORENCE, CO 81226

I've read somewhere that he likes letters, so perhaps you'd get a reply. He used to be quite busy, though.

[Mefisto1mced]

@vaahti Thank you very much for the repply, i'll try to get in contact with him, though it may be kind of difficult for me because i don't live in the u.s., but i'll definetly try..... this info. may be quite useful too for other people that may have the same wish, thanks

[vaahti]

@Mefisto1mced

You're very welcome! I just found the address on the internet. I can't post the url, because Youtube doesn't allow it. Happy writing!

[ripley1423]

@vaahti You can also try the Bureau of Prisons (bop.gov) inmate locator for updates, though I doubt that he will ever be moved from Florence.

[mainecoon1000]

ted was more sane than you think, Your just not educated enough to understand. He should have started the killings with his brother, That fuckin rat bastard

[SeerTravisTruman]

@mainecoon1000 This represents Truth. Often times, siblings are sided with society and will "rat" you out in a second, as will "girlfriends" and other societally invented "relations".

[thomassuzuki]

jak brat wygra, polska ma serce , jak nie to jebac sie wszyscy

[Bazylewiczkuban]

Like the Unabomber, I am ready to kill people. My anger for what this world is becoming, is killing me.

I almost wish I could return to my 18 year old self when I knew nothing about the world.

We are all going to die by the end of this century, the world is slowly destroying itself.

yes, I realize youtube is technology, but we must use the system to destroy the system.

[AliBoulalaSTP]

extrem intelligenter mensch....genie und wahnsinn. dieser brief / briefe sind total krank.

[AltarOfTriumph]

I think he was entirely sane, he went into solitude when he worked out how rotten modern society is. Then retaliated when the mankind began destroying the environment he had grown to love over a decade.... I would do the same thing.

[lykopis]

it's just amazing that his family, especially his brother didn't get him some help. he showed obvious signs of some serious mental problems early on.

[vaahti]

What kinds of signs did he show?

[morpheus341]

Ted hat Recht !

[KaliYugaForKiX]

LOL

yea the manifesto certianly have alot of arguments against leftism

interesting points, if a bit binary

[coxfox10]

Leftist

[traf25]

@coxfox10 What does leftist even mean any more? Most people seem to use it as a pejorative, don't you agree?

[sweetypie000]

i sympathise with the bomber - what the government does to the land is a fucking outrage

he had no mental illness in my opinion and he must be living in hell being stuck in a cell for the rest of his life

[ivanorteg]

i agree. But its not 'the government' my friend... it is all of us. This world exists by our collective agreement.

[LegionAreWe]

Hell in a cell? No , not Theodore. Solitude is comfort.

[gracer99]

@sweetypie000 he absolutely does not have any mental illness.  he has even been reviewed by multiple psychologists while in prison and they have all attested to his total sanity.

[sweetypie000]

@gracer99 psychologists know shit. they don't know what goes on in peoples heads - however much you may believe they know their job, they don't.

Who is to tell you whether you are sane or insane ? the brain is the most complicated thing in the universe. It is more powerful than the most powerful computer and always will be.

[gracer99]

@sweetypie000 then why is his sanity even called into question? because he killed people??? That's problematic. So then everyone who kills should automatically be circumspect for insanity? If so, then why any more then someone who doesn't kill or kill directly? Is a CEO of a tobacco company any less insane than a soldier with a confirmed kill in afghanistan? Does the fact that a large organization ordered the soldier to kill make us not doubt his sanity???

[sweetypie000]

@gracer99 some people like to kill and hurt. Some people like to make money out of suffering. some people like to follow and be told what to do.

it is only law that makes it legal or illegal, sane or insane.

[gracer99]

@sweetypie000 what a confused and stupid thing to say. You imply that violence is done for pleasure or greed or obedience and never in RATIONAL SELF DEFENSE.

[sweetypie000]

@gracer99 no, you are saying that. Violence is done for many reasons.

[gracer99]

@sweetypie000 so you will admit then that it is a possibility that Kaczynski acted out of rational self defense? a simple yes or no answer will settle this discussion.

[kraeutemall]

Is there a way to get this film?

[vaahti]

You can find it on Google Video.

[Cathdriver]

Sound more like a Oldie. And the voice sounds more like a man. In the Chumbawamba-Version sings a woman.

[vaahti]

How about Tom Jones singing Chumbawamba - Timebomb? :)

[Cathdriver]

Are you sure? I guess it´s Chumbawamba, too. But this version sounds older.

[Cathdriver]

What´s the name of the song at 1:45?

[vaahti]

Chumbawamba - Timebomb. The clip is from the film Breaking the Spell available on Youtube.

[nakedtaxidermist]

The annoying people he interviews in this film make me want to fucking vomit. A modern day prophet Ted is and of course he is not understood, but i do not understand how those morons can be so oblivious to truth.

[360central]

is this the unit bomber

[nakedtaxidermist]

unabomber, yeah.

[PyramidHead17]

its strange the media only talks about the Industrial part of hes manifesto but not of the political change that is as damaging where he is revering to like political correctness and leftism as a whole or maybe its just in my country...

[freedomclubLX]

Good or bad, that would be an instrumental use of his ideas. Don't forget that leftism is for him a manifestation of the crazyness of industrial civilization. It's written on the manifesto. The central point is indeed the unsustainability of mass-scale organization.

[SubtUtiles]

yeah, and his explanation of the psichological basis of the unhappiness of the industrial world (the need to go through the power process, the fact that technology pushes goals to riquiring either trivial effort or impossible achievement, and the role of surrogate activities) is also brilliant. cheers, a.

[KoreaRwkz]

@PyramidHead17 Hey there, I'm replying to a comment of yours posted 2 years ago. Sorry about that. But I wanted to ask someone who had read the FC's / Ted's manifesto. In the video on which you posted this comment, Ted supposedly said all published versions of the manifesto is not accurate? I've been reading the version on this website - " anus (dot) com ". This is not a joke in case the name of the website makes me appear to be joking. I hope you can clarify with me on whether I'm reading...

[KoreaRwkz]

@PyramidHead17 the correct version or at least one of the more correct versions of the manifesto. If you'd read the accurate version of the manifesto, I hope you can also share with me any important points that had been left out on the version of the manifesto I've been reading. Sorry if it'll be troublesome for you to do me this favour. The manifesto is pretty long so it will most probably be a tedious task to look through it. You can type in "Unabomber manifesto" in the Yahoo search bar and...

[KoreaRwkz]

@PyramidHead17 ..click on the 4th link from the top. There'll be a link there - " Read the full unabomber manifesto". That's the version of the manifesto I read.

And one more thing. In the video, the FC supposedly carried out the bombing attacks to get the manifesto published. But from the version of the manifesto that I read, Ted (or the FC) said that it would not have been a problem for them to pay for their manifesto to be published on newspapers and that the reason they carried out the...

[KoreaRwkz]

@PyramidHead17 ...bombing attacks was so that people would pay more attention to the manifesto and so that they would not forget about the manifesto easily since the bombing attacks had such a big impact.

Which do you think was the real reason?

[ufster81]

if you have missed my point, steer clear of websites like godlikeproduction... most of these conspiracy theorists are not only fake but have mastered manipulating people coming up with "alternate" truths and observe/analyze people's reactions so they can come up with better methods of social engineering through psychology.

[ufster81]

i might not agree with the methods he used to draw attention to his message but let's analyze objectively where our liberties stand as mankind now and we will all agree to the content of the message to some degree.

Internet, a technology which is supposed to spread free-thought and unbiased information has turned into a psychological warfare battleground. youtube has made all the effort to act like a biased news agency and change our opinion of irani elections. the sum of us are being analysed

[ufster81]

...one way or another. our opinion and our minds have been corrupted to a degree that it is harder than ever to reach the facts and the truth. we are bombarded with false information and even people whom we see uncovering these false information have their own agenda and once they have your trust they use it to enhance their agendas. sites like godlikeproduction will claim to uncover conspiracies when they are only interested manipulating you. someone is playing tug of war with our minds.

[midgetsmakemehappy]

there wont be any woods left anywhere

[DamnDamnDamn7]

damn this bitch tellin the story sounds like shes on heroin or LSD or both or mentally sick

Its German, i can understand every word but it makes me sleepy to listen to her...

[EnormousHuntBall]

Grassed up by his own brother, that is the stuff of tragedy.

A man with some powerful ideas and a grasp of the big picture, he should be revered rather than confined.

[jesperdepesper]

by always saying that violence is never to be used you are not considering logically, you are only limiting your view.

[ArcadianGenesis]

Also, *nothing* in his Manifesto is even slightly convincing to anyone who does not share his beliefs. Normally, a good philosophical argument sounds very convincing *even* if you disagree with it. This is not the case with Ted Kaczynski. Of all the excerpts and quotes from the Manifesto I've read on the internet, not a single one of them has made me think, "That's a good point." His beliefs are completely shallow and without any solid foundation.

[JanBelupo]

Then you should read his full manifesto,not just the stuff the media put out for spin control

[ArcadianGenesis]

He just doesn't get it. Technology IS nature. Everything in the universe is composed of the same fundamental substances. Industrialization is simply the evolution of nature. Ted Kaczynski, although a genius, had a stupid worldview with little to no philosophical backing. You can't just create a social philosophy without any classical philosophy (whether metaphysics, epistemology, or ethics) to back it up. His predictions are false, and his revolution is a failure.

[vitr1ol]

'Industrialization is simply the evolution of nature'? That's a ridiculous idea. Industrialisation and the culture that comes with it moves at a pace vastly quicker than human evolution. We have undeniable evolved to live a certain way, and our mechanisms of satisfaction etc are based on that way of life - inherently, genetically. And it's only getting faster - the faster it gets, the worse it is for us.

[vitr1ol]

"Everything in the universe is composed of the same fundamental substances" - and that is even more ridiculous. That makes it fine then? What do you even mean by that? A gun is made of the same 'natural' stuff, but if I put it to your head and pulled the trigger, it wouldn't be very good for you.

[ArcadianGenesis]

It is in no way ridiculous. I never said "everything is good." I simply stated the indisputable fact that everything is made of the same fundamental particles. Don't even try to deny that. You'll just look ignorant.

As for the usefulness of technology, I truly believe that technology is the crowning achievement of the human species (along with art and philosophy), and in a sense it our "savior." Compared to social institutions such as religion and government, technology is our greatest asset.

[microbio1965]

Hidden, antisystem masterpiece, death of life by science is the trademark of the world we live in. but killing those who kill life is playing wit their tools. So how you solve the paradox? good people think through reason, yet scientists dont reason technology, they believe in 'their religion'. The future doesnt need us. man seems a 'program' of creation of machines and destruction of life/genesis paradise, who ate the science tree and now will die. Click my name to see how

[SLACKER614]

after viewing, i want to change my name to una-slacker..

[segits]

infact some are very corrupt, to the point of inflicting great suffering, even death on to fellow humans, and nonetheless, perfectly getting away with it, due to 'prestige' (a palatable substitute for the actuality of 'HYPOCRISY')

[vaahti]

Yes, that's certainly true, but there are also many pacifists who inflict great suffering and destruction.

I don't think violence should be glorified, although I do think it is a matter to be reflected upon in certain situations.

I don't suggest we idolize the Unabomber, but it's a mistake to label him as some kind of a monster. Ted Kaczynski has a message to say, and that message is important and I think well articulated.

[segits]

Just imagine how much the psychologist Dr. Henry Murray could have contributed to damage...many others or the Feds at Waco or Ruby Ridge or the military in Iraq and Vietnam...police with adolescents...so on.

But you know, they can cover it all up, in a very artful matter,and too often self-righteously do, while "monsters"like Kaszynski or an honest McVeigh are condemned by the majority as scum of earth.

[segits]

If ALL that is supposed to represent GOOD would be indeed good: government, doctors, pastors, police and so, then there would be no relativity on this societal issue. But unless someone retains a perpective of a 4 yr. old in an adult body, has come to realize that NOT all representatives of GOOD is at all good,

[PrimalSolution]

olivemike81, You just don't get it. Please comment when you discover a little thing called intelligence.

[olivemike81]

Those who blame technology for the evils of the world are fooling themselves and fail to address the real cause of our problems. Human nature is the real culprit. Technology can be used for good or evil. A hunting rifle can be used to provide food for a family or it can be used to kill innocent people; it all depends how the individual chooses to use that weapon.

[A9420]

That is a truly insightful comment.

[neovxr]

&) or do the likes of him want to control the net and just don't tell..?

[neovxr]

5) the other central point is the tragedy that the crimes have caused, and the problems that t.k. has increased, e.g. the vastly polarized views about scrutiny and human consent in technology.

i do highly recommend to see the whole movie, some important quotes are missing in these cut editions.

e.g. mr.gelernter told that the "net" is not controllable and this is not a bad thing - which could even be seen as an anarchist position..

[neovxr]

why didnt foerster's work show to them, these techno ideas of how2 defeat fascism within human mind, +to create new society f/ scratch, are deeply fascist themselves?

this vid is about denial of certain intimate facts of that "new order" society, spoken with silence.

the non-use of HvF's principles as explained above, to me is one central point of the movie. should tell us, that some of the creators/financiers of this plan didnt have as positive ideals in their minds, as should'v been expected.

[neovxr]

3)this, together with the doubtless fact of positive ideals in the human mind, proves that condemning of relativism based on HvF, is a serious mistake: it does not forbid you to have ideals, it just reminds you that you are human and rely on the senses of your body.

next, HvF is always talking about 2ndOrder principles, self-reference, self-application of principles.

[neovxr]

heinz v foerster of_that_roundtable, THE genius helped prepare the scientific ground of "robots".

as a constructivist, he was also a master of relativism. deeper understanding of his thoughts would have prevented quite much of the countless quagmires, and what the vid is about.

gelernter opposes relativism, but doesnt see that r/ is THE very strong tool against fascism and hubris + forces us to question and scrutinize our ideals. tells us that we need the long and cumbersome process of CONSENT!

[neovxr]

1)as for mr.gelernter,

w/o strong positive ideals, mankind as a civilization wouldn't even exist. negative traits alone would detroy faster than create.

but humans are imperfect and can be terribly wrong. the story started with the desire to eradicate fascism, by creation of a roundtable of scientists, artists, and politicians, to improve society for that matter, and also, to proceed in the technological race against the USSR during cold war. longtime agenda - thoughts and ideaa should be bold.

[mjccmc82]

Actually Ted graduated from Harvard with weak grades. Ted scored 167 on an IQ test, which is exceptional. In 1967, Ted received the Sumner Myers prize for his doctoral dissertation on boundary functions. His best work in academia was at Michigan and being accepted to teach at Berkely when he was 25 is remarkable.

[Matedogswe]

respect to this guy...he entered harvard when he was 16 and had best grades and had 170 in IQ what a genius!

[Chstr]

I believe technology itself is not to fault, rather the fact that it's being wielded by entities who's dominant traits have been shaped by natural selection. We are coming upon a point where we can abandon this hideous process, and Kaczynski wants to throw us back into it. His manifesto is well articulated, intelligently written and there is much merit in what he has stated about the modern human condition, but I think his admiration of humanity's roots is ill placed.

[vaahti]

If we're talking about patriarchy, you could say that patriarchy is a result of domestication and utilitarian culture.

It's not a question of which class controls the means of production.

What John Zerzan says makes more sense to me. Namely that technology is the embodiment or physicality of society. It expresses the deepest values and choices of the society.

The hi-tech world expresses things like mediation, artificiality, coldness, dependence on experts, no real autonomy.

[greenrevolutionary]

i really like the format and presentation of this video. i am excited to read the second one. did you ever get a copy of the correct manifesto? i wonder what the serious errors that he talked about were. i am satisfied with the version available on wikipedia, but there are a few small things i disagree with.

[vaahti]

Thanks.

No, I can't tell what the errors Kaczynski refers to could be. I'd be interested to know. Maybe I should write Ted :)

I feel that the manifesto goes a bit too far in analyzing the psychology of the left. I think there could be some real anthropology in there as well. Still, I think it's a very important piece of writing.

[greenrevolutionary]

I agree, I think it goes too far in analyzing the psychology of the left. I do think what he said about the power process was important though.

As for the question of why Chomsky; maybe he viewed (or views) Chomsky as sort of a wolf in sheep's clothing; a nonradical posing as a radical. Like you said, Chomsky can be seen as promoting non-radical, pro-technology, pro-civ ideas.

[greenrevolutionary]

By that logic, maybe the CEO of Greenpeace is on the list as well!

[toesandumbrellas]

one thing i've always wondered is why chomsky was on his mailing list, of all people? i can understand wanting to off a PR propagandist who defends clearcutters, but why chomsky? i don't agree with the letterbombing thing, cos collateral harm just isn't justifiable - a kid could've been in the room when the bomb went off, and therere far easier ways of assassinating people, just read the declassified cia manuals. i'm no pacifist, but there are ways of doing it without risking innocent lives

[vaahti]

I don't have any insight on why Chomsky. It does seem peculiar. I think Kaczynski is strongly opposed to the kind of libertarian leftism advocated by Chomsky, which has lead to the marginalization of certain anarchist ideas. Chomsky can be seen as promoting non-radical, pro-technology, pro-civilization ideas.

I think Kackzynski's terrorism was largely a mistake. Just like he had feared, it resulted in him being labeled crazy.

[vaahti]

However, I first got interested in anarcho-pritivism as a result of reading Industrial Society and Its Future. It's unlikely that I would have read it if it wasn't for the terrorist action.

[toesandumbrellas]

i got into it through jensen - one failing i think it has though is i think there needs to be a clearer distinction of what constitutes "technology" and what is just a tool. i think something should be considered tech where its harmful effects outweigh its benefits, ie the manufacture of this computer is very toxic, might've given some poor sweatshop worker cancer, and therefore isn't worth my convenience of using it (even though this isn't my computer, i don't have one)

[toesandumbrellas]

on the other hand, you could argue a spear is a form of "technology", but that's just silly, cause its benefits outweigh its harm. back to ted - even if everyone he killed (all 3 of em) deserved it (and many of them quite demonstrably did), he had no right to risk the lives of innocent bystanders. it was cowardly and stupid, considering the myriad ways to do it without risking innocents

[toesandumbrellas]

well, wasn't he clinically diagnosed w some form of schizophrenia? he had an iq of 167, but his social interactions were very strange - i don't think there's anything particularly objectionable in his manifesto, but the way he went about it was clearly stupid and had the potential for some very nasty atrocities

[vaahti]

Well, he wasn't quite the loner he's made out to be. Neither can I find that much evidence for schizophrenia. He scored 0/10 for Schizotypy in a psychological expirement in Harvard in the 60's.

I can't see why we'd need another Unabomber. That would be just desperate and I think ineffective and dangerous as well.

I think there's a clear distinction between tools and systems of technology. I'd go pretty far to the core of division of labor and put an end to mass society.

[toesandumbrellas]

my bad - he was listed on wikipedia as people with schizophrenia, so either that's just wiki-bullshit or something they worked out for an insanity plea or something. it's just whenever you talk about anarcho-primitivisim, some people say, "oh well, spears and waterwheels are technology too". and that's silly cos they do more good than harm as opposed to PCs, which do more harm than good

[toesandumbrellas]

primitivism*. for example, all these consumer electronics contain coltan, a metalic ore, the mining of which seriously fucks up the habitat of the endangered gorillas, and the exportation of which has helped fuel a war in the congo that's killed over 4 million people

[pennilesscripple]

am gonna have to watch these twice. thank you for putting something worth watching on my subscription list vaahti

i'd say it's pretty much impossible to 'hide' from mind control now

the best we can hope for is to be as aware of it as we can and emancipate ourselves from it, knowing that we're not doing a complete job....

[vaahti]

Yes, that's true. I suppose it will become ever increasingly difficult to hide.

Technology leads to less freedom. It's very difficult to argue against that.