The Rothbardian Theory of Taxes | Thomas J. DiLorenzo

[MessianicTalkRadio]

Tax lupuls, if it's unfair that not everyone benefits from them, why we should shut them, Let us Expand Them - said the Rothbard

[thomasjrbg]

29:50 Libertarian Class Theory, Sweet!

[THEGREGDREW]

Money does solve the problem of the "double coincidence of wants," but wouldn't barter be more productive and lucrative for the parties involved, given that the two parties would prefer the goods or services in question? As in - barter isn't always less productive as described here. Or am I misunderstanding DiLorenzo?

[RKAddict101]

@THEGREGDREW I don't think he means it's always less productive, but I would agree it generally is. If someone avoids a tax by engaging in barter rather than engaging in money exchanges, it's less efficient. That's because if the tax wasn't there, they would have acted differently; their change in actions because of the outside coercion implies that bartering is less efficient in such cases.

[shamgar001]

I love DiLorenzo, but he should learn what the FairTax is before commenting on it. It's nothing even remotely similar to a flat tax.

[james2c19v]

Great video. It still seems that it would be desirable, however, to get closing tax loopholes and lowering tax rates in the same bill, as long as the overall amount of taxation decreases. I understand that he's saying the tendency is for government to play bait-and-switch with these things, but taxes should be both low and fair.

The same is true for the tax-avoidance industry. If you got rid of tax laywers AND lowered taxes overall, the economy would be even more productive.

[favoriteblueshirt]

Excellent round up of Rothbard's tax analysis .

With big shouts to Adam's and Chodorov's books, essential reading.

Thanks Mr.Tom. Brilliant lecture.

[klaptongroovemaster]

He's mixing terminology. The "Fair Tax" is a national sales tax. People who favor it do so because it is avoidable, it encourages saving, and because undocumented people and those who currently work "under the table" will be taxed on their consumption same as everyone else.

I think government should have to ask nicely and say, "Please" and "Thank you." But no one ever asks me how to write the tax code.

[RKAddict101]

@klaptongroovemaster All forms of taxation are avoidable. If you want to avoid an income tax, don't earn income. If you want to avoid a sales tax, don't consume, etc. Also, the sales tax does not encourage saving because of the praxeological fact that it is imputed backward to the income of land and labor; it essentially is an income tax. What's confusing is who's paying the tax isn't actually where the tax is paid. So a consumption tax effectively discourages saving as well.

[klaptongroovemaster]

@RKAddict101 No, they aren't avoidable if you want to have a normal life. We'll all be able to avoid them when enough of us get fed up to tell the parasites to finally fuck off. I'm not holding my breath for that day, however. It seems most people are perfectly happy to be enslaved as long as they think they are getting THIER piece of action, or that their neighbor is also enslaved in a manner they believe to be "fair."

[RKAddict101]

@klaptongroovemaster I'm responding to your comment about how other taxes are unavoidable but the fair tax (which you say is a national sales tax) isn't. You can't have a "normal" life in either case of tax avoidance.

[klaptongroovemaster]

@RKAddict101 No matter where taxes come from, they will always be a drain on the productive economy. A parasite always damages the host.

[RKAddict101]

@klaptongroovemaster I agree with you, my comment had nothing to do with that.

[SexDrugsFinance]

But wouldn't a consumption tax at least encourage saving?

[deadman12078]

@SexDrugsFinance Think it would. It would also encourage people to purchase higher quality goods that would last...serviceable. New goods would be more expensive so people would demand that they well manufactured. It would be an investment

Government does not like change. When does gov do anything logical? I don't see the current tax system changing in any way to benefit but a few, as since it was created

Here a vid worth watching, he gives a good argument /watch?v=v4KfVM5Ed3c

[CurtHowland]

@SexDrugsFinance The problem with such a tax is compliance and enforcement.

The paperwork involved is staggering, and very invasive. There can be no privacy. None.

The IRS under such a system will be far, far more powerful than it is even now.

[shamgar001]

@CurtHowland The IRS would be eliminated under such a system. Taxes would be gathered the same way sales taxed are now.

[CurtHowland]

@shamgar001 The IRS would be bigger, and more intrusive.

Right now, if you have a "job" and report that, they pretty much leave you alone to buy and sell and barter.

Under a "sales tax" such barter would have to be illegal, investigated, and prosecuted. That means having agents empowered to crawl even deeper into people's lives in order to prosecute tax evasion.

So no, the IRS will not be eliminated.

And, likely, we'll get BOTH taxes.

[shamgar001]

@CurtHowland The FairTax bill specifies that the tax cannot be collected until after the 16th amendment is repealed. Politicians could pass a similar law without that stipulation, but then it wouldn't be the FairTax.

Also, barter is unregulated in that system.

Again, it would work the exact same way as your state sales tax. The state even collects the taxes and passes them on, so no federal agency is needed.

[CurtHowland]

@shamgar001 Believing the promises of politicians is why things are as bad as they are.

No.

No more taxes. No new taxes, no tax increases.

They've had a free hand for a century, and things have only gotten worse.

Abolish. Repeal. No more.

There is no such thing as a "fair" tax.

[RKAddict101]

@CurtHowland Completely agree. How can there be such a thing as a fair tax? What is fair about a group of people called the "government" stealing any amount of money from innocent individuals?

[JamSession37]

@SexDrugsFinance A consumption tax would encourage a black market and therefore more crime.

[RKAddict101]

@SexDrugsFinance Nope, a consumption tax is basically the same thing as an income tax because it is imputed backward to land and labor income. The confusing thing about a consumption tax is who's paying it; what you have to realize is who's paying it in reality though and that is the land and labor owners. I'd recommend reading Rothbard's Man, Economy, and State. In Chapter 12, he has a section dedicated to taxes in which he explains this.

[Leofus1986]

Tom DiLorenzo: THA BAUS!!

[bartj777]

DiLorenzo is always a great speaker and worth the time. Thanks for putting these up!

[rolgorevene]

lorenzo rocks