Absolutely. The woman had decided she was going to press a button the moment she agreed to participate. The automated processes of her brain then simply take over to determine exactly *when* that is going to happen, but the decision has already been made. :-)
As always you have been my source for arguments against determinism. People tend to just take an experiment at it's word instead of examining the components.
One problem I have with the task is it's complete meaningless nature. The people taking this test have no meaning behind the action. The desire (will) is limited to, pushing the damn button. It's interesting that people felt compelled to push the button. I just wouldn't or I would just keep pushing it until it broke.
@Tommerman89 That doesn't rule out determinism but it does mean that you can't win a philosophical debate with some experiment. It's not satisfactory considering the meta-physical grounds for freedom. Sartre has a good argument in favor of free will, for instance. So really, I think the true meaning of the experiment is to watch out who's dick your girl is sucking.
@Tommerman89 I'm sure neuro-sci CAN answer the question, just not with a single experiment measuring one part of the brain at a time. We're talking about the most complex humanly known organ here. Reductionism is fine for isolating what parts govern what functions, but when so much of it operates by "committee" broader views are gonna be needed.
@Tommerman89 "it's interesting that people felt compelled to push the button."
Yeah something about that stood out to me too. I tried putting myself in the place of a subject who doesn't know what's being measured. Best I could come up with is treating it like a reaction time test. Feel the desire, push the button as fast as possible (it's the gamer in me). This would, IMO, create an early build of the action potential in the brain, like a cat when it gets into the universal pounce position.
@Celephais42 I understood it. I just couldn't figure out in light of it, why it otherwise seemed like you were talking to ME!
I don't understand the free will debate. To me, it doesn't matter. We HAVE to act AS IF we have free will, whether we do or not. To me, the only thing important to note about determinism is the reality that everything that happens "before" effects the outcome. This seems like a good thing to keep in mind currently, as we make decisions.
@AncientAtheist Lol. No the " you" being addressed in the vid is no actual person.
As for the free-will debate.... It's for the lulz. Other than that I agree with you fundamentally there. I've got personal addendums and caveats that I'd toss on top of it, nothing major
@Celephais42 Well, considering my biases, and despite the bad audio, the production quality sounds great.. or in other words, had you not told me, i would thought that this was a professional, signed band. :)
@kirke420 the bad audio is on the music recording side, not the video editing side. I need to get my damn sound board and a clusterfuck of mics to get any better sound out of it. Recording drums off of a single vocal mic just doesn't hack it :P
Libet experiment. I found this "proof" to be unreliable for both sides of the argument. Anyway, make more videos.
TheUltimateNihilist 10 months ago
@TheUltimateNihilist NO U!!!1!!1!1!!one
Celephais42 10 months ago
Absolutely. The woman had decided she was going to press a button the moment she agreed to participate. The automated processes of her brain then simply take over to determine exactly *when* that is going to happen, but the decision has already been made. :-)
rozeboosje 10 months ago
really good video!
nicanicabad 10 months ago
@nicanicabad Thank you
Celephais42 10 months ago
@Celephais42 you are most welcome
nicanicabad 10 months ago
As always you have been my source for arguments against determinism. People tend to just take an experiment at it's word instead of examining the components.
One problem I have with the task is it's complete meaningless nature. The people taking this test have no meaning behind the action. The desire (will) is limited to, pushing the damn button. It's interesting that people felt compelled to push the button. I just wouldn't or I would just keep pushing it until it broke.
Tommerman89 10 months ago
@Tommerman89 That doesn't rule out determinism but it does mean that you can't win a philosophical debate with some experiment. It's not satisfactory considering the meta-physical grounds for freedom. Sartre has a good argument in favor of free will, for instance. So really, I think the true meaning of the experiment is to watch out who's dick your girl is sucking.
Tommerman89 10 months ago
@Tommerman89 I'm sure neuro-sci CAN answer the question, just not with a single experiment measuring one part of the brain at a time. We're talking about the most complex humanly known organ here. Reductionism is fine for isolating what parts govern what functions, but when so much of it operates by "committee" broader views are gonna be needed.
Celephais42 10 months ago
@Tommerman89 "it's interesting that people felt compelled to push the button."
Yeah something about that stood out to me too. I tried putting myself in the place of a subject who doesn't know what's being measured. Best I could come up with is treating it like a reaction time test. Feel the desire, push the button as fast as possible (it's the gamer in me). This would, IMO, create an early build of the action potential in the brain, like a cat when it gets into the universal pounce position.
Celephais42 10 months ago
I don't know what you said... but them was a lotta purdy words! :)
kirke420 10 months ago
@kirke420 Awww cmon. I know you understood "smokin hot girlfriend"
Celephais42 10 months ago
@Celephais42 I understood it. I just couldn't figure out in light of it, why it otherwise seemed like you were talking to ME!
I don't understand the free will debate. To me, it doesn't matter. We HAVE to act AS IF we have free will, whether we do or not. To me, the only thing important to note about determinism is the reality that everything that happens "before" effects the outcome. This seems like a good thing to keep in mind currently, as we make decisions.
AncientAtheist 10 months ago
@AncientAtheist Lol. No the " you" being addressed in the vid is no actual person.
As for the free-will debate.... It's for the lulz. Other than that I agree with you fundamentally there. I've got personal addendums and caveats that I'd toss on top of it, nothing major
Celephais42 10 months ago
@Celephais42 And "Blowjob"...
kirke420 10 months ago
@kirke420 So I know the recording is crap, and metal isn't really your bag, but as a professional in the music biz whatcha think of the song sample?
Celephais42 10 months ago
@Celephais42 Well, considering my biases, and despite the bad audio, the production quality sounds great.. or in other words, had you not told me, i would thought that this was a professional, signed band. :)
P.S. Me, a professional? Pshaw!
kirke420 10 months ago
@kirke420 the bad audio is on the music recording side, not the video editing side. I need to get my damn sound board and a clusterfuck of mics to get any better sound out of it. Recording drums off of a single vocal mic just doesn't hack it :P
Celephais42 10 months ago