Nicky Gumbel 2009 National Alpha Conference Invitation

[26wordy]

lines on his shirt where he's folded them. always a good sign.

[andrew2great]

nicky is an amazing leader. so much wisdom and so much talent, but the most humble of all hearts. thanks for filling my difficult years in London with so much love.

[sweetsweatyfeet]

Does anyone know Nikki Gumbel's views on evolution?

[SOAS007]

Do alpha course inform you that all major thological colleges teach, and accept that most of the new testement is forged.!

[cambola4]

(Ah, yes, the Tony Blair smile and hand gestures. Many similarities, none of which are flattering.) Why do you believe god is going to look on you at that conf? Did he call you on the mobile? Ok, slightly flippant, but the point is that such people have no qualification to profess they know what some celestial supervisor knows or thinks. So, don't let them tell you what to think or how to behave. The last place you want to get your morality is from their hate and war-ridden 'holy' books.

[cambola4]

Centuries ago, humans thought the world was flat. Science, observation, reason and common sense eventually showed us that this was not the way. Using evidence and reason, man became that bit smarter, and we got to know a little more about the world. The same with genetics, physics and evolution. We don't have all the answers (we atheists are happy to admit we don't know the truth), but we're learning a bit everyday. Relgious doctrine like this video will soon die out as man continues to evolve.

[werepig]

Nicky Gumbel is brilliant and he was the one Christian "celeb" who made me think twice before rejecting Christianity out of hand. But despite Nicky and his good quality friends, Christianity remains for me an ancient and rickety lie, designed to control the well-intentioned and/or the self-obsessed.

[gazbradshaw]

If heaven is full of gimps like this give me he'll any day...

[sweetsweatyfeet]

I've asked this before but no one seems able or willing to answer--- Does Nicky Gumbel believe in evolution?

[InternetUser1999]

To all the critics Nicky Gumble is a vicar - it is his job to promote Christianity! The success of the Alpha course shows that he is very good at his job and works very hard at it.

He wouldn't be a very good vicar if he went around telling people that Christianity might not be true.

[SOAS007]

@InternetUser1999 "He wouldn't be a very good vicar if he went around telling people that Christianity might not be true. " which is true so he doesn't tell the truth.!

[Tancred65]

The Alpha course has changed millions of lives immeasurably for the better - it's not indoctrination it's the truth. I have head what Nicky Gumble says about homosexuality and evolution - you may think him wrong but you cannot accuse him of ducking the issue!

[sweetsweatyfeet]

It's NOT the truth. It IS indoctrination. Gumbel's clever manipulation of history, speaking of scripture as if it were historical, twisting of facts, special pleading, argument from authority (the ones who agree with him while ignoring those who don't) make him more of a charlatan and propaganda artist than an educator. His worn out arguments have been thoroughly refuted by critical thinkers and academics for years.

[wilskebatso]

how can you be so defintite? what makes the opposing arguement (your arguement), so irrefutable? of course his arguements have been refuted! if no one opposed him then the whole world would have to accept jesus based on mere evidence.. the arguement goes both ways, there are equally as intelligent critical thinkers that have a faith. he has not manipulated history any more than those who would oppose him. i would simply suggest to you, that its worth searching for all possible answers

[sweetsweatyfeet]

Well, the fact is I don't have to be definite, Gumbel does. Either he is right or he's wrong, there is no middle ground that satisfies both truth and falsehood. Since he is advancing the case for christ, god and scriptural credibility, Gumbel has the burden of proof, not the skeptic. While presenting his case he constantly violates rules of logic (and ethics). He quotes (often out of context) who he wants and ignores everything else. Gumbel sells Christianity like a used car.

[sweetsweatyfeet]

Not a course, just pure Christian indoctrination; and a real fundamentalist insanity it is too. Some of these sessions end up in with the faithful in trance like states babbling and rolling on the ground.

If you take this course ask the leaders their opinions on evolution and homosexuality. Watch them squirm while they try to change the subject.

[wycliffe35]

I have to agree with you.

Additionally; I heard Nicky squirm on a recent radio interview when he was asked a simple question on other faiths.....

Alpha does not represent mainstream Christianity - oh for the sixties and sagacious theological debates with people like, Hick, Robinson and Furlong....rather than this highly evangelical utter nonsense....!

[bammagamma]

Actually I am currently taking the course and there is no such thing happening. Maybe if that church in particular is heavy duty, but not all of them. The course goes over in detail all these important questions such as evol, homosexuality, historical credibility, suffering, u name it, everyone talks about it. It is NOT about indoctrination and everyone is there because they can ask these questions and get answers. It is actually a brilliant course and before condemning it, u should try it.

[sweetsweatyfeet]

I do not speak for each and every course but there have been many who testify that physical gyrations, speaking in "tongues" and similar self-hypnotic trance like behavior does happen although more likely in the final sessions.

It is exactly about indoctrination. You supply the questions and THEY supply the answers. Sorry but I am in moral, philosophical and scientific opposition to what Alpha stand for. Rest assure that most of what they tell you; I hold precisely the opposite to be true.

[wilskebatso]

i hope this does not offend you, but i'm going to pray for you. i've found that theres little point arguing against someone of your perspective and dare i say intelligence.. beacuse if by some miracle myself or someone else can argue successfully against you on this - and you accept that jesus is the son of god etc etc... then i also have no doubt that if that is the foundation of your faith.. evidence.. someone equally as educated and intelligent will come along and argue you out of it. s

[sweetsweatyfeet]

That's fine, I'm not offended. I've nothing against anyone holding which ever beliefs they choose. My comments merely reflect my thoughts and feelings on Gumbel's brand of proselytization.

As has been said before, while you pray for me, I will think for you.

[wilskebatso]

how about you see what happens if you try pray. im not suggesting that somehting the likes of harry potter will happen in your bed room, but if my arguement is correct, if jesus is true, then he will answer your prayers. if he is infact there. so why not try and speak to him. surely you have nothing to lose if you are right and christianity is some elaborate hoax.

[sweetsweatyfeet]

Would YOU be equally open minded about other religions? How about praying to Allah or to Zeus, or the Hindu god(s) Raj or Thor maybe. Then again you can experience the cosmic consciousness from which we've departed by meditation to Zen Buddhism. Maybe you'll experience other revelations, satori, enlightenment, etc. just like those believers do. No?, already made up your mind? Then you are much like me, we both have a list of gods we don't believe in; except mine includes one more god -- yours.

[wilskebatso]

yes, actually one of the things i've done as a result of my relationship with jesus is infact read up about other religions... i'm interested as to what others believe in and why. i think its interesting that we as human beings inherently have a faith in something.. whether that be externally as in my case with jesus.. or perhaps inwardly as in your case with yourself? do you really believe that this is it? that life is some pointless continous cycle of brith and death? what a hopeless existence

[wilskebatso]

why do i believe in christianity? because i believe in the one almighty god, because unlike other gods he loves me, he created me, he has a plan for me and i'm seeing that plan unfold as i continue to trust him.. and deny myself. lots of religions have great teachings and morales.. but christiany is not merely about a lifestyle.. nor is it purely based on revelations or some kind of "physical experience". i'm sorry if this is a cliche, but it's about a relationship. a unique dynamic to religion.

[sweetsweatyfeet]

You asked the question -- "Do you really believe that this is it"? My answer is, yes, this is it -- OR -- if it's not, we must be (spiritually) immortal. Immortality is a bold claim with absolutely no evidence. Such a belief is typically motivated by fear of death. We are one of the only species who is aware of our impending death. This doesn't sit right with some of us so we project an existence beyond death to ease our trepidation. It's called religion; I call it wishful thinking.

[wilskebatso]

no i'm sorry your wrong its not motivated by fear of death.. its frustrating sometimes when people claim to know that their is no god, because like i said in another response.. if you say there is no GOD - then you have pre-supposed that you know what it is exactly you claim not to be there.. because you obviously know what to look for, and what exactly is not there.. i think you may have made a far bolder claim. not only are you pitting yourself against a belief... but god too and his creation

[wilskebatso]

there is also nothing worse than a bad atheist.. i'm not suggesting that you are. but simply to read the bible as any "critical thinker" or good student would, to find out exactly what it is he doesn't beleive in. you may say you have read the bible, and really study it in depth.. if infact god is real, you, his mere creation, are trying to oppose him? i believe in an almighty god, and i don't have to defend him, for hes hunting down your soul! i'll leave it at that, and continue to pray for u

[sweetsweatyfeet]

I'm not a student of theology but I understand pretty well the nature of what I claim to reject; if only because I grew up in a mostly Christian society and have been at the receiving end of countless preachings and teachings to the finest detail the attributes and doctrines of Christianity.

I've also read many of the scriptures. Lack of evidence for it's fantastic claims (and certain moral doctrines) are the reasons I reject christianity. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[wilskebatso]

haha the evidence for theories such as the "big bang" are equally as lacking in regards to evidence. and guess what.. there's absolutely no doubt that science was infact fabricated by man.. a poor substitue for truth in my opinon. all we need to do is look at history and observe -(as the scientists do - to realise that man has constantly and consistently contradicted itself and its theories. christianity however stays maintiains consistency in its core doctrine for the most part - jesus saved us

[wilskebatso]

but let me also say your arguement is completely valid, and we as people, even those of us who claim to love jesus, have a right to test our faith (whatever that may be in). and that as followers of jesus we should not be afraid to confront questions such as these - good questions, but i would suggest that answers are there to be found -and evidence, if you look hard enough.

[wilskebatso]

but also rememeber a key ingredient - the ingredient causing the controversy - is faith. this relationship is a different dynamic than any we can experience with other humans, and even human relationships require a measure of faith, but nothing in comparision to what is required to love jesus- to love something we cannot see or touch, maybe you never really grasped relationship with god? maybe we are not all ridiculous liers, but i don't listen to me. find out, im confident the answers are there

[SOAS007]

@wilskebatso "but also rememeber a key ingredient - the ingredient causing the controversy - is faith. "

yup FAITH: the belief in something WITHOUT or contrary to evidence.!

[SOAS007]

@wilskebatso " the most part - jesus saved us " ha ha.../ from what?

[SOAS007]

@wilskebatso "there's absolutely no doubt that science was infact fabricated by man.. " but science works,it is true hence you can see you tube.! :-)

[wilskebatso]

@SOAS007 loving god requires faith, because he chooses not to impose himself on us.. if he did.. if god decided to "show up" on earth in the form of a giant or whatever we perceive god should look like, if it were absolutely irrefutable that god existed and that he was the only god, who loves us... then our free will to love, to choose christ, would be taken away from us by pure evidence and thus logic... god has given us the ability to choose.. and that is why faith is necessary to know god.

[wilskebatso]

@SOAS007 and i would say the same to you my friend, if you are so adamant that god is a fake, then you have nothing to loose by trying this... dear lord, i come before you now a sinner, i ask that you'll forgive me lord, i ask that you will show yourself to me now lord, i ask that you will convict me in jesus name. AMEN. if you pray that prayer in ernest my friend i have now doubt you will meet your maker

[SOAS007]

@wilskebatso " i have now doubt you will meet your maker " blind certainty!?

"if you are so adamant that god is a fake" like you i reject 1,000s of gods that mankind has invented in his ignorance to try and explain things, and to whole power over people. Unless evidence comes available then I will be consistant. Remember you reject gods the same as me, all except the one you were taught exists an want to exist.!

[wilskebatso]

@SOAS007 yes to some measure your right, i'm merely human and hugely influenced by my upbringing ( which was in a Christian family). im am now a devout christian and thank god for my family which were obviously a huge influence.. however i did walk away and rebel for a time, then met god personally.. you can say what you want about my story, or my influences. but im more interested in you , the prayer i suggested to you was not in jest, try it if you really are so bold. see if god loves you

[SOAS007]

@wilskebatso " then met god personally"!!! when you met her, did you not think it would be humane to ask for clues to cure childhood, illnesses e.g.?

[SOAS007]

@wilskebatso " loving god requires faith" to love someone you have never met, or cannot explain demoted the word love.!

[SOAS007]

@wilskebatso " god has given us the ability to choose.. " why would the creator of the univers, billions of stars in this galaxy alone and billions of galaxies need us to serve or love her.. ! I don't need my lawn, plants, or birds in my garden to worship me. You are degrading your god with selfish human emotions.!

[wilskebatso]

@SOAS007 i would question your idea of "love" who are you to say i have not met the lord? i may not have seen him with my own eyes.. but that is merely one of our senses. and to love someone you cannot explain... if you mean explain god by, or compared to humans then no of course i cant.. god is infact god which would suggest that he is far bigger than my created brain.. if he is true.. should the pot understand the potter?

[SOAS007]

@wilskebatso" god is infact god which would suggest that he is far bigger than my created brain." our brain runs very advanced simulation software. So thats where she is created.

"should the pot understand the potter? "

If I want to read a book that teaches about loyalty, love, bravery wisdom, and even saving your arch enemies, then yes Harry Potter.! Not the bible which is bronze ages morallity, of genocide, slavery, & bigotry.! Both are fictional stories.!One is truthful about its status

[globe255]

sweetsweatyfeet, all people need somethings to believe on, why? because it simply make them better humans, how? Because if you believe on somethings you are able to not only help yourself but other people too. It has nothing to do with religion(unless you want it to), but you will to trust a power that can help you and other people through a difficult situation. I dont myself rely on a religion that put women under men as a primitive group.

[memevirus]

There is no god, don't be so gullible. I've done an Alpha course and they can't deal with atheists as they can't answer our simple questions. This is a vacuous course. The content is patronising and so flawed it is an insult to anyone with critical thinking abilities. Don't waste your time or money. Why live in the forced ignorance of religion and fear a fictitious god? This is the only life we have so stop wasting your time and live it now, not on a promise of non-exxistant Heaven to come.

[RedHatBlueShoe]

athiest at my church now believe!

[djshades]

Couldnt of said it better myself

[OurFather1]

I read your note, i hope you will read mine. If you only knew what I have gone thru to write to you , you only then, could know how much I care for someone, I don't know and my words may not even matter. God is the only reason I am a live today. I almost gave up on me, but I remembered God's promise to turn to him and "all" things are possible. I'm not trying to change your mind, only you can give God a chance. I'm taking the time to write you, because, I know you are worth it, he told me.

[wilskebatso]

what makes you think that you cannot experience life with jesus? i would ask you how you know how there is no god? what exactly are you saying is not there? you obviously claim to know what god is if you know what is "fictitious".. so i would ask you, what.. or who is god?

[sweetsweatyfeet]

I don't know with absolute certainty there is no god but... we can only believe based on probabilities. When a set of religious beliefs originates from a superstitious and uneducated age and consists of claims that defy science, reason and believability there's a fairly high degree of certainly such beliefs were fabricated by man.

[pegasus1747]

@sweetsweatyfeet  Please do the Alpha course

[jcareusa]

Did Alpha 3 times!!!